the best laid plans of mice and moms
Amy Mason
I'm reading, reading, reading and trying to practice, practice, practice
but having trouble, trouble, trouble. I seem to be having so many
crises lately and my ability to think and listen and react to the right
here and now is lacking (Naomi Aldort's S.A.L.V.E.). Hindsight is
definitely 20/20. I have so many current issues that I would love to
gleen advice from that I don't know where to begin. ( 3 year old
bullying 1 year old, 5 year old stamping feet declaring "I won't go
until I get to do blank..., 8 year old not wanting to do something the
rest of us do) My current read is Naomi Aldort's book which is helping
dearly but there doesn't seem to be much advice out there for large
families. Having a large family brings out situations like having
everyone want to go walk the dogs together, walk to the playground, go
bike riding, watch the same movie...you get the picture. We seem to do
ok with the movie choices...the turn taking...but the poor dogs lose out
when one out of 5 doesn't want to go out walking and I can't leave
anyone home alone yet.
BUT...
The previous poster earlier today, Michele (developing self control),
has such a similar situation as a problem I had arise yesterday I feel I
should start there and I'll deal with the other stuff another time. Ok,
yesterday...the plans were great. It was a beautiful day, we dropped
books back at the library, went to the playground, had a quick trip to
the grocery store and ended up at the pet store after a leasurely drive
home which they passed watching a movie and relaxing in the car. All
was peaceful and fine. The pet store is always a fun trip as my guys
are animal lovers. We were heading up to the register to check out when
a man with a husky puppy was spotted. We have huskies so my children
were immediately possessed to go and pet the dog. The man was very
nice, we chatted, and he started following us as we made our way to the
front of the store. My son, 8, broke off and ran to the tank that
housed the painted turtles. The man took off the lid of the tank,
reached in and grabbed a turtle and thrust it in my son's hand. My son
looked at me and it all happened so fast I just told him that it was
time to put it back that I didn't think we were allowed to touch the
turtles. My 5 year old daughter, Claire, started to ask to hold it as
the man was putting it back in the tank, but he stated that it had been
out long enough and needed back in the water. (I'm a bit peeved that
the gentleman didn't ask me if my son could hold the turtle and the
nerve he had to take the turtle out of the tank to begin with.) Well,
we move along but as we near the front of the store my daughter assumes
her stance...arms folded, head down and pouts. I ask what was wrong.
She declares, quite loudly, "I want to pet the turtle!" I immediately
dive into my head and the reading I've been doing. I first told her
that the man had no right to give Ethan the turtle without asking me and
that he violated the store rules by taking the turtle out in the first
place. We move along a little further, but she's still pouting and
giving me looks to kill. I say to her that I know she's disappointed
that she didn't get to hold the turtle, but that I can't do anything
about it because we're not allowed to. Let's talk about it at home
(it's late already, groceries in the car, daddy probably wondering
what's taking us so long...) Well, she stamps some more declaring "I'm
not leaving until I pet the turtle!" I say, "Claire, I can't leave you
here. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to hold the turtle. Ethan
shouldn't have held it either but that man put it in his hands. He took
it back and put it back before you had a chance to hold it." She still
stamps and declares. We somehow get through paying for our dog food,
her stamping and declaring the entire time (I won't mention the amount
of attention we had acquired by now because I tried not to care what
others were thinking). We get to the door and she stops. "I WILL NOT
LEAVE UNTIL I PET THE TURTLE!" I say, "Claire, are you upset because
you didn't get to hold the turtle and Ethan did?" yes...and this goes
on for another 30 minutes..."Claire, what else can I do? I can't take a
turtle out of the tank because it's against store rules? Do you want me
to break store rules? I can't leave you here." Well, we're blocking
the doorway, it's getting later and later and I am exhausted and don't
know what else to do. She's never done this before to this extent and
never outside the home. I tell her that I'm very sorry but we need to
go home (baby, 3 year old, and 8 year old are beyond ready to go...) I
tell her we can talk more in the car and at home. Nothing I say is
changing anything...she repeats over and over that she won't leave until
she holds the turtle. I tell her that I will have to carry her to the
car. She screams no, but I don't know what else to do. Knowing what
I'm in for (baby in sling, by the way...) I reach down and pick her up
with my right arm and we try and make it out to the car. It was a
battle the entire way, as I knew it would be. She is kicking me and
pinching me and yelling and screaming and the tears are pouring down my
cheeks...this continues in the car where she won't buckle up. I finally
reduce to the "what if we have an accident on the way home...what could
happen if she wasn't buckled..." and she cries that she doesn't want to
get hurt so she buckles...well...we get home and she is already calming
down and daddy meets us in the garage because he already called on our
way home wondering where we were. He is wonderful and supportive of
everything and talks very calmly with her (meanwhile I'm sobbing because
she has never struck at me or shown such feelings before) and she admits
that she just wanted to hold the turtle because Ethan did and that she
didn't want to hurt me and she was dreadfully sorry and hugged me but
I'm afraid I did a horrible wrong by carrying her to the car. What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
It is late, I am sorry to have vented...
Thank you,
Amy in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but having trouble, trouble, trouble. I seem to be having so many
crises lately and my ability to think and listen and react to the right
here and now is lacking (Naomi Aldort's S.A.L.V.E.). Hindsight is
definitely 20/20. I have so many current issues that I would love to
gleen advice from that I don't know where to begin. ( 3 year old
bullying 1 year old, 5 year old stamping feet declaring "I won't go
until I get to do blank..., 8 year old not wanting to do something the
rest of us do) My current read is Naomi Aldort's book which is helping
dearly but there doesn't seem to be much advice out there for large
families. Having a large family brings out situations like having
everyone want to go walk the dogs together, walk to the playground, go
bike riding, watch the same movie...you get the picture. We seem to do
ok with the movie choices...the turn taking...but the poor dogs lose out
when one out of 5 doesn't want to go out walking and I can't leave
anyone home alone yet.
BUT...
The previous poster earlier today, Michele (developing self control),
has such a similar situation as a problem I had arise yesterday I feel I
should start there and I'll deal with the other stuff another time. Ok,
yesterday...the plans were great. It was a beautiful day, we dropped
books back at the library, went to the playground, had a quick trip to
the grocery store and ended up at the pet store after a leasurely drive
home which they passed watching a movie and relaxing in the car. All
was peaceful and fine. The pet store is always a fun trip as my guys
are animal lovers. We were heading up to the register to check out when
a man with a husky puppy was spotted. We have huskies so my children
were immediately possessed to go and pet the dog. The man was very
nice, we chatted, and he started following us as we made our way to the
front of the store. My son, 8, broke off and ran to the tank that
housed the painted turtles. The man took off the lid of the tank,
reached in and grabbed a turtle and thrust it in my son's hand. My son
looked at me and it all happened so fast I just told him that it was
time to put it back that I didn't think we were allowed to touch the
turtles. My 5 year old daughter, Claire, started to ask to hold it as
the man was putting it back in the tank, but he stated that it had been
out long enough and needed back in the water. (I'm a bit peeved that
the gentleman didn't ask me if my son could hold the turtle and the
nerve he had to take the turtle out of the tank to begin with.) Well,
we move along but as we near the front of the store my daughter assumes
her stance...arms folded, head down and pouts. I ask what was wrong.
She declares, quite loudly, "I want to pet the turtle!" I immediately
dive into my head and the reading I've been doing. I first told her
that the man had no right to give Ethan the turtle without asking me and
that he violated the store rules by taking the turtle out in the first
place. We move along a little further, but she's still pouting and
giving me looks to kill. I say to her that I know she's disappointed
that she didn't get to hold the turtle, but that I can't do anything
about it because we're not allowed to. Let's talk about it at home
(it's late already, groceries in the car, daddy probably wondering
what's taking us so long...) Well, she stamps some more declaring "I'm
not leaving until I pet the turtle!" I say, "Claire, I can't leave you
here. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to hold the turtle. Ethan
shouldn't have held it either but that man put it in his hands. He took
it back and put it back before you had a chance to hold it." She still
stamps and declares. We somehow get through paying for our dog food,
her stamping and declaring the entire time (I won't mention the amount
of attention we had acquired by now because I tried not to care what
others were thinking). We get to the door and she stops. "I WILL NOT
LEAVE UNTIL I PET THE TURTLE!" I say, "Claire, are you upset because
you didn't get to hold the turtle and Ethan did?" yes...and this goes
on for another 30 minutes..."Claire, what else can I do? I can't take a
turtle out of the tank because it's against store rules? Do you want me
to break store rules? I can't leave you here." Well, we're blocking
the doorway, it's getting later and later and I am exhausted and don't
know what else to do. She's never done this before to this extent and
never outside the home. I tell her that I'm very sorry but we need to
go home (baby, 3 year old, and 8 year old are beyond ready to go...) I
tell her we can talk more in the car and at home. Nothing I say is
changing anything...she repeats over and over that she won't leave until
she holds the turtle. I tell her that I will have to carry her to the
car. She screams no, but I don't know what else to do. Knowing what
I'm in for (baby in sling, by the way...) I reach down and pick her up
with my right arm and we try and make it out to the car. It was a
battle the entire way, as I knew it would be. She is kicking me and
pinching me and yelling and screaming and the tears are pouring down my
cheeks...this continues in the car where she won't buckle up. I finally
reduce to the "what if we have an accident on the way home...what could
happen if she wasn't buckled..." and she cries that she doesn't want to
get hurt so she buckles...well...we get home and she is already calming
down and daddy meets us in the garage because he already called on our
way home wondering where we were. He is wonderful and supportive of
everything and talks very calmly with her (meanwhile I'm sobbing because
she has never struck at me or shown such feelings before) and she admits
that she just wanted to hold the turtle because Ethan did and that she
didn't want to hurt me and she was dreadfully sorry and hugged me but
I'm afraid I did a horrible wrong by carrying her to the car. What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
It is late, I am sorry to have vented...
Thank you,
Amy in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/1/2007 12:08:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
doodlemakers@... writes:
What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
I would have reached in the tank and handed her the turtle to pet for a few
seconds (or I'd ask the rule breaking guy with the husky to grab a turtle for
her after he told her the other one had been out of the water for too long)
thus avoiding the tantrums and frustrations that ensued and kept you in the store
for so long. If you put yourself in the tiny kid's shoes you can understand
her frustration that her brother got to hold the pretty turtle and she
couldn't. Saying it's been out of the water for too long is reasoning that a 5 year
old cannot relate to. The turtle isn't dead so why couldn't the guy hold it
and let her pet it for a second? If the situation was that her brother was
allowed to drive the car and she couldn't things would be different but this is a
turtle. Some *rules* can safely be broken especially in the name of joy and
peace. Worse case result from breaking the rules at the pet store would be
incurring the wrath of a protective salesperson? Much better than what you went
through.
On the way home we might have had a discussion about the reasons everyone
isn't allowed to handle the turtles (they'd die) and made sure all the kids
understood that it was a one shot turtle petting experience. Petco does a free
tour where a staff member takes the animals out ( tarantulas, ferrits, rabbits,
lizards, turtles, birds, etc.) and everyone gets the opportunity to hold them.
You may wish to schedule a tour.
Rather than worrying about whether I'm giving in to a tantrum I have found
it's better to figure out how to avoid tantrums.
Sorry you had such a bad time at the pet store.
Warmly,
Robin in MA
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doodlemakers@... writes:
What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
I would have reached in the tank and handed her the turtle to pet for a few
seconds (or I'd ask the rule breaking guy with the husky to grab a turtle for
her after he told her the other one had been out of the water for too long)
thus avoiding the tantrums and frustrations that ensued and kept you in the store
for so long. If you put yourself in the tiny kid's shoes you can understand
her frustration that her brother got to hold the pretty turtle and she
couldn't. Saying it's been out of the water for too long is reasoning that a 5 year
old cannot relate to. The turtle isn't dead so why couldn't the guy hold it
and let her pet it for a second? If the situation was that her brother was
allowed to drive the car and she couldn't things would be different but this is a
turtle. Some *rules* can safely be broken especially in the name of joy and
peace. Worse case result from breaking the rules at the pet store would be
incurring the wrath of a protective salesperson? Much better than what you went
through.
On the way home we might have had a discussion about the reasons everyone
isn't allowed to handle the turtles (they'd die) and made sure all the kids
understood that it was a one shot turtle petting experience. Petco does a free
tour where a staff member takes the animals out ( tarantulas, ferrits, rabbits,
lizards, turtles, birds, etc.) and everyone gets the opportunity to hold them.
You may wish to schedule a tour.
Rather than worrying about whether I'm giving in to a tantrum I have found
it's better to figure out how to avoid tantrums.
Sorry you had such a bad time at the pet store.
Warmly,
Robin in MA
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
********
One possibility if you really didn't feel comfortable or didn't have time to pursue it right then would be to say to her, "I understand you really want to pet the turtle. I don't feel comfortable taking the turtle back out right now because I think it's against the store rules, but how would it be if we go home now but tomorrow I'll call the store and see if we could come back in and have a salesperson let us pet the turtle another day?" Let her know that you want to help her get what she wants, even though you're saying no to doing it right now.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?
********
One possibility if you really didn't feel comfortable or didn't have time to pursue it right then would be to say to her, "I understand you really want to pet the turtle. I don't feel comfortable taking the turtle back out right now because I think it's against the store rules, but how would it be if we go home now but tomorrow I'll call the store and see if we could come back in and have a salesperson let us pet the turtle another day?" Let her know that you want to help her get what she wants, even though you're saying no to doing it right now.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~
What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?~~
What if you had stopped at her very first request and asked the man if
she could also hold the turtle, as her brother had? The idea is to
take a child seriously and try to honor their requests as much as
possible, so you AREN'T responding to a melt down.
Perhaps if she'd felt heard and validated right away (her Mum goes and
asks the store, or stands at the tank and lets her touch it or??) she
wouldn't have felt the need to stand her ground and make such a big
deal out of it.
When my children are getting intense, I sometimes (depending on the
kid and situation) that I can listen better if we can all just talk
about how to find a solution.
Rather than just telling her 'no' and discounting her desire, you
could stop right there and brainstorm a way to help her get what she
wants.
If the store really had a strict policy about not touching the turtle,
then why did the man hand it to your son? I honestly don't see why he
would have to ask before sharing the joy of touching a turtle with
your child! Why on earth would that upset you?
It's nice when adults take the time to share something with a child.
That was an opportunity for them. At least if you walked over to the
tank and talked possibilities, she might have felt more validated and
not needed to display her strong feelings.
If you tried to meet the need, and she still started getting loudly
upset, then yeah, I'd try to get her out of there as soon as possible
(not stand in the doorway and discuss it) and try to discuss options
out in the car where everyone in the store isn't being subjected to
the conversation/emotional outburst.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
What
should I have done/could I have done? I wonder if I should have found
an employee and asked if my daughter could hold the turtle...would that
be giving in to a tantrum?~~
What if you had stopped at her very first request and asked the man if
she could also hold the turtle, as her brother had? The idea is to
take a child seriously and try to honor their requests as much as
possible, so you AREN'T responding to a melt down.
Perhaps if she'd felt heard and validated right away (her Mum goes and
asks the store, or stands at the tank and lets her touch it or??) she
wouldn't have felt the need to stand her ground and make such a big
deal out of it.
When my children are getting intense, I sometimes (depending on the
kid and situation) that I can listen better if we can all just talk
about how to find a solution.
Rather than just telling her 'no' and discounting her desire, you
could stop right there and brainstorm a way to help her get what she
wants.
If the store really had a strict policy about not touching the turtle,
then why did the man hand it to your son? I honestly don't see why he
would have to ask before sharing the joy of touching a turtle with
your child! Why on earth would that upset you?
It's nice when adults take the time to share something with a child.
That was an opportunity for them. At least if you walked over to the
tank and talked possibilities, she might have felt more validated and
not needed to display her strong feelings.
If you tried to meet the need, and she still started getting loudly
upset, then yeah, I'd try to get her out of there as soon as possible
(not stand in the doorway and discuss it) and try to discuss options
out in the car where everyone in the store isn't being subjected to
the conversation/emotional outburst.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Amy Mason
> I would have reached in the tank and handed her the turtle to pet forThanks, Robin, I see that now. That's my biggest problem. I see things
> a few
> seconds (or I'd ask the rule breaking guy with the husky to grab a
> turtle for
> her after he told her the other one had been out of the water for too
> long)
> thus avoiding the tantrums and frustrations that ensued and kept you
> in the store
> for so long
after the fact. I also DID tell my daughter that we could come back the
next day and ask a sales person if we could hold a turtle. My biggest
issue with reaching in the tank myself is the fear of ME getting in
trouble but I should have put that aside, with the rules, and just done
it.
Ren, I'm one who is constantly offering my children the joy of
nature...we spend our days outside and we've caught many turtles and
other wonderful wildlife critters (the current season is Spring Peepers
;-) ). My daughter was truly put out that her brother did something she
didn't get to do.
Thanks for the wonderful advice ladies! I truly appreciate it.
Amy
Katharine Wise
Thanks, Robin, I see that now. That's my biggest problem. I see things
after the fact.
Helps to remember that that's actually the first step toward change:-) First realizing later, then realizing the midst, and then finally actually doing it the way you want.
Katharine
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
after the fact.
Helps to remember that that's actually the first step toward change:-) First realizing later, then realizing the midst, and then finally actually doing it the way you want.
Katharine
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Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~My daughter was truly put out that her brother did something she
didn't get to do.~~
That was my entire point. Stop right there at the first request and
try to brainstorm, rather than deciding an answer for her.
The fact that she gets to touch and see a lot of wildlife doesn't
matter one iota at that moment, when she wants to touch THAT
particular turtle because her brother did. Children live in the
moment. Helping her in that moment is the best you can do.
I know you see other options now...good! But my point wasn't that you
were depriving her of wildlife interactions, it was about meeting the
need before she felt that she had to shout to be taken seriously.
Ren
learninginfreedom.
didn't get to do.~~
That was my entire point. Stop right there at the first request and
try to brainstorm, rather than deciding an answer for her.
The fact that she gets to touch and see a lot of wildlife doesn't
matter one iota at that moment, when she wants to touch THAT
particular turtle because her brother did. Children live in the
moment. Helping her in that moment is the best you can do.
I know you see other options now...good! But my point wasn't that you
were depriving her of wildlife interactions, it was about meeting the
need before she felt that she had to shout to be taken seriously.
Ren
learninginfreedom.
Amy Mason
> I would have reached in the tank and handed her the turtle to pet for<<Thanks, Robin, I see that now. That's my biggest problem. I see things
> a few
> seconds (or I'd ask the rule breaking guy with the husky to grab a
> turtle for
> her after he told her the other one had been out of the water for too
> long)
> thus avoiding the tantrums and frustrations that ensued and kept you
> in the store
> for so long
after the fact. I also DID tell my daughter that we could come back the
next day and ask a sales person if we could hold a turtle. My biggest
issue with reaching in the tank myself is the fear of ME getting in
trouble but I should have put that aside, with the rules, and just done
it.>>
Well, I'm second guessing myself again...what about salmanilla...I was
thinking that at the time also. We found some purell and did Ethan's
hands as soon as he handled the turtle but that man didn't go wash his
hands. Plus, even though we don't have rules in our house don't we have
to show, model the behavior of following others rules that are well founded?
Amy
Sylvia Toyama
What if you had stopped at her very first request and asked the man if she could also hold the turtle, as her brother had?
****
I can see where this might have looked fair from your daughter's perspective, but the situation you laid out -- a man you and your kids don't know reaches into the tank and hands your son a turtle -- sends off all my alarms. What was this guy's motive in that moment, with your sun? I wouldn't have encouraged either this man or my children to continue any contact with that man. Maybe that's just my own baggage talking, but every one of my instincts would be suspicious of that man and his interest in my son.
****
Perhaps if she'd felt heard and validated right away (her Mum goes and asks the store, or stands at the tank and lets her touch it or??) she wouldn't have felt the need to stand her ground and make such a big deal out of it.
*****
I would have considered asking the clerk, too. Probably, the 'rule' that turtles can't be handled is to prevent customers scooping them out all the time and risking the health of the turtles. I'd bet an employee could have gotten one out to show a potential customer.
*****
Rather than just telling her 'no' and discounting her desire, you could stop right there and brainstorm a way to help her get what she wants.
If the store really had a strict policy about not touching the turtle, then why did the man hand it to your son? I honestly don't see why he would have to ask before sharing the joy of touching a turtle with your child! Why on earth would that upset you?
****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to a child.
I don't know if suspicions like mine -- and I'll admit I'm more than a little anal about strangers talking to my kids -- figured into that moment for the Mom and her kids, but I often get overwhelmed in situations that involve strangers and my kids -- because it makes me uncomfortable and I'm really not able to think creatively.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
I can see where this might have looked fair from your daughter's perspective, but the situation you laid out -- a man you and your kids don't know reaches into the tank and hands your son a turtle -- sends off all my alarms. What was this guy's motive in that moment, with your sun? I wouldn't have encouraged either this man or my children to continue any contact with that man. Maybe that's just my own baggage talking, but every one of my instincts would be suspicious of that man and his interest in my son.
****
Perhaps if she'd felt heard and validated right away (her Mum goes and asks the store, or stands at the tank and lets her touch it or??) she wouldn't have felt the need to stand her ground and make such a big deal out of it.
*****
I would have considered asking the clerk, too. Probably, the 'rule' that turtles can't be handled is to prevent customers scooping them out all the time and risking the health of the turtles. I'd bet an employee could have gotten one out to show a potential customer.
*****
Rather than just telling her 'no' and discounting her desire, you could stop right there and brainstorm a way to help her get what she wants.
If the store really had a strict policy about not touching the turtle, then why did the man hand it to your son? I honestly don't see why he would have to ask before sharing the joy of touching a turtle with your child! Why on earth would that upset you?
****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to a child.
I don't know if suspicions like mine -- and I'll admit I'm more than a little anal about strangers talking to my kids -- figured into that moment for the Mom and her kids, but I often get overwhelmed in situations that involve strangers and my kids -- because it makes me uncomfortable and I'm really not able to think creatively.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
I have had many many animals in my life( still do) : frogs, turtles, sankes, guinea pigs, rabbits, dogs, cats, a monkey, horses, cows, all kinds of fish, a toad, gosh I can't even remenber them all and I ( and my siblings) never got sick form them.
I actually love frogs.. I don't worry about salmonella. IF we live our lives with fear of what iffs like this than we would do nothing and have no joy.
Alex
I actually love frogs.. I don't worry about salmonella. IF we live our lives with fear of what iffs like this than we would do nothing and have no joy.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Amy Mason
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] the best laid plans of mice and moms
> I would have reached in the tank and handed her the turtle to pet for
> a few
> seconds (or I'd ask the rule breaking guy with the husky to grab a
> turtle for
> her after he told her the other one had been out of the water for too
> long)
> thus avoiding the tantrums and frustrations that ensued and kept you
> in the store
> for so long
<<Thanks, Robin, I see that now. That's my biggest problem. I see things
after the fact. I also DID tell my daughter that we could come back the
next day and ask a sales person if we could hold a turtle. My biggest
issue with reaching in the tank myself is the fear of ME getting in
trouble but I should have put that aside, with the rules, and just done
it.>>
Well, I'm second guessing myself again...what about salmanilla...I was
thinking that at the time also. We found some purell and did Ethan's
hands as soon as he handled the turtle but that man didn't go wash his
hands. Plus, even though we don't have rules in our house don't we have
to show, model the behavior of following others rules that are well founded?
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rn9302000
"Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.
I don't know if suspicions like mine -- and I'll admit I'm more than a
little anal about strangers talking to my kids -- figured into that
moment for the Mom and her kids, but I often get overwhelmed in
situations that involve strangers and my kids -- because it makes me
uncomfortable and I'm really not able to think creatively."
I have to agree with this, and that is the first thought I had when I
read the OP. Why is this stranger taking a turtle out for her son? I
am very suspicious by nature of strangers and their interest in my
kids. I know most times it is completely harmless, but alarm bells go
off in my head anyway.
I think in this case, I would have first removed us from the stranger,
then gotten a clerk to take a turtle out for my dd to pet.
then i would have gotten purell for their hands :)
a child.
I don't know if suspicions like mine -- and I'll admit I'm more than a
little anal about strangers talking to my kids -- figured into that
moment for the Mom and her kids, but I often get overwhelmed in
situations that involve strangers and my kids -- because it makes me
uncomfortable and I'm really not able to think creatively."
I have to agree with this, and that is the first thought I had when I
read the OP. Why is this stranger taking a turtle out for her son? I
am very suspicious by nature of strangers and their interest in my
kids. I know most times it is completely harmless, but alarm bells go
off in my head anyway.
I think in this case, I would have first removed us from the stranger,
then gotten a clerk to take a turtle out for my dd to pet.
then i would have gotten purell for their hands :)
Ren Allen
~~****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
We interact with strangers every single day. I think kids raised in a
healthy enviroment, who are given information, will pick up on truly
"strange" behavior. It's really harmful to children to be fearful of
people that are behaving kindly, as an automatic reaction.
Going over to the man, dialoguing with him, discussing why the store
doesn't want the turtle handled etc....might be better than feeding
some fear of strangers.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
We interact with strangers every single day. I think kids raised in a
healthy enviroment, who are given information, will pick up on truly
"strange" behavior. It's really harmful to children to be fearful of
people that are behaving kindly, as an automatic reaction.
Going over to the man, dialoguing with him, discussing why the store
doesn't want the turtle handled etc....might be better than feeding
some fear of strangers.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
rn9302000
I don't necessarily teach my kids to be fearful of strangers, but I do
teach them to never take anything from a stranger. Even if I am right
there they will ask me. They are very young.
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
teach them to never take anything from a stranger. Even if I am right
there they will ask me. They are very young.
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~****
> Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
> a child.~~
>
> I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
> there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
> interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
>
> We interact with strangers every single day. I think kids raised in a
> healthy enviroment, who are given information, will pick up on truly
> "strange" behavior. It's really harmful to children to be fearful of
> people that are behaving kindly, as an automatic reaction.
>
> Going over to the man, dialoguing with him, discussing why the store
> doesn't want the turtle handled etc....might be better than feeding
> some fear of strangers.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Katharine Wise
A great book on this topic is "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin deBecker. His other book is "The Gift of Fear", so now you know what the gift is:-) Anyway, his books are about learning to trust our instincts -- not being fearful of everything and everyone but also not talking ourselves out of fear when we do genuinely experience it. He says that a lot of time a true sense of fear is based on tips we've noticed subconsciously but haven't had time to process. Protecting the Gift is specifically about helping our children. Also includes lots of tips on indicators that someone really may have bad intentions and teaching our children what to do if they do get lost. (Don't look for a police officer or someone in uniform -- look for a woman, especially a mom with children, whom you feel comfortable with. Don't go with the person who comes up to you and offers help -- seek out someone to ask for help.) Truly great books.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 12:43:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: the best laid plans of mice and moms
~~****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
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Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 12:43:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: the best laid plans of mice and moms
~~****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
(Sylvia)Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to a child.~~
(Ren) I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
(Sylvia) Here's a snip from the op -- It sounds to me like Mom was not right there.
<op snip>
The man was very nice, we chatted, and he started following us as we made our way to the
front of the store. My son, 8, broke off and ran to the tank that housed the painted turtles. The man took off the lid of the tank, reached in and grabbed a turtle and thrust it in my son's hand.
<end snip>
Her son 'broke off' and went off on his own -- did this man follow her son, or was this man already at the turtle tank? This guy the kids just met takes off the tank lid, pulls out a turtle and offers it to her son? I don't know -- something about it just feels odd to me. Sure, this guy isn't a danger to her kids when Mom is there, but what about someday in a few week or months when her son runs into this man at the park/store/sidewalk and maybe Mom isn't around? Now that guy isn't technically a 'stranger' -- but does anyone know how safe he is, really?
****
(Ren) We interact with strangers every single day. I think kids raised in a healthy enviroment, who are given information, will pick up on truly "strange" behavior. It's really harmful to children to be fearful of people that are behaving kindly, as an automatic reaction.
****
And I think that guy's behavior was truly strange. I don't think all adults who are nice to my kids are pervs, but this guy's actions made me feel like he was trying to create something with this kid. He catches up with the kid at the turtle tank, after kid has left Mom's side, and breaks the rules to give the kid a special moment -- all before Mom can get there. It would bother me. It feels like he's building trust or sharing a secret. Unless he was a really, really benign person it would concern me.
****
Going over to the man, dialoguing with him, discussing why the store doesn't want the turtle handled etc....might be better than feeding some fear of strangers.
****
I agree that going over to the man and talking with him about it is good, too. And, for me, it would be about the vibe he gave off. Is there a sign posted saying it's not okay to reach in and get a turtle? Did this man know that, and was he knowingly breaking the rules just to be friendly with my kid? If the answer to both those questions is yes, then I'm not comfortable with that man and would talk to my kids about my feelings after we'd left the store.
If the rule isn't posted and this man was just being helpful -- and if he gave off energy that felt totally safe (not all strangers give off bad vibes, but some do) -- I'd be less uncomfortable.
We also talk with many adults in public places -- Andy is the most socially unafraid child on the planet and will strike up a conversation with anyone and everyone we meet. I haven't told the boys that all adults are suspect (because that's not true), but some adults do harm kids, and it's not always easy to know which ones are safe and which ones aren't. If it were, there'd no victims. While Andy will talk to virtually everyone, he's not very good at social cues and I'm not sure how well-developed his personal radar is just yet, so I stay close.
Sylvia
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(Ren) I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
(Sylvia) Here's a snip from the op -- It sounds to me like Mom was not right there.
<op snip>
The man was very nice, we chatted, and he started following us as we made our way to the
front of the store. My son, 8, broke off and ran to the tank that housed the painted turtles. The man took off the lid of the tank, reached in and grabbed a turtle and thrust it in my son's hand.
<end snip>
Her son 'broke off' and went off on his own -- did this man follow her son, or was this man already at the turtle tank? This guy the kids just met takes off the tank lid, pulls out a turtle and offers it to her son? I don't know -- something about it just feels odd to me. Sure, this guy isn't a danger to her kids when Mom is there, but what about someday in a few week or months when her son runs into this man at the park/store/sidewalk and maybe Mom isn't around? Now that guy isn't technically a 'stranger' -- but does anyone know how safe he is, really?
****
(Ren) We interact with strangers every single day. I think kids raised in a healthy enviroment, who are given information, will pick up on truly "strange" behavior. It's really harmful to children to be fearful of people that are behaving kindly, as an automatic reaction.
****
And I think that guy's behavior was truly strange. I don't think all adults who are nice to my kids are pervs, but this guy's actions made me feel like he was trying to create something with this kid. He catches up with the kid at the turtle tank, after kid has left Mom's side, and breaks the rules to give the kid a special moment -- all before Mom can get there. It would bother me. It feels like he's building trust or sharing a secret. Unless he was a really, really benign person it would concern me.
****
Going over to the man, dialoguing with him, discussing why the store doesn't want the turtle handled etc....might be better than feeding some fear of strangers.
****
I agree that going over to the man and talking with him about it is good, too. And, for me, it would be about the vibe he gave off. Is there a sign posted saying it's not okay to reach in and get a turtle? Did this man know that, and was he knowingly breaking the rules just to be friendly with my kid? If the answer to both those questions is yes, then I'm not comfortable with that man and would talk to my kids about my feelings after we'd left the store.
If the rule isn't posted and this man was just being helpful -- and if he gave off energy that felt totally safe (not all strangers give off bad vibes, but some do) -- I'd be less uncomfortable.
We also talk with many adults in public places -- Andy is the most socially unafraid child on the planet and will strike up a conversation with anyone and everyone we meet. I haven't told the boys that all adults are suspect (because that's not true), but some adults do harm kids, and it's not always easy to know which ones are safe and which ones aren't. If it were, there'd no victims. While Andy will talk to virtually everyone, he's not very good at social cues and I'm not sure how well-developed his personal radar is just yet, so I stay close.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
A great book on this topic is "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin deBecker
***
I read this book a few months ago, and I found it really had a lot to offer. Much of what he said, I'd heard growing up -- about your own instincts, fear being a gift, seeking out a Mom for help if you're lost, etc.
My experience is colored by two different parts of my life. When I was a teen, my Mom was a volunteer counselor with the Rape Crisis Center -- get a phone call middle of the night, meet the 'victim' and accompany her thru the hospital and police report kinda thing. In the process, I heard a lot about staying safe -- park under a light, the 'don't talk to strangers' rule isn't just for kids, etc.
Twenty years later I found myself Mom to a fearless wanderer (Will) who got lost repeatedly -- at the mall at Xmas time, around the neighborhood (the first time he wandered off from the babysitter's patio, he was 18 mos old). I tried telling him to never leave my side -- that didn't work well at all. LOL Will was the kind of kid who didn't really talk to strangers. He barely spoke to adults we knew. Will would get lost looking at something and fall behind, or wander away from the playset to see a pretty bird, then get lost because he was disoriented (because he hadn't paid attention to where he was going as he followed his whim).
What finally worked for us was 'arming' him -- by the time he was 30 mos old he could recite his name, my name, our phone number and address, and his grandma's name and phone number, too. He knew not to seek out a policeman or security guard, but to find a Mom. To call out Mom if he felt he was in immediate danger, because when a child screams Mom, every woman in the place spins to look around for the sound (even those who didn't bring their child along). To never get in a car with a stranger. To never go with someone who didn't know our family 'safe word.' That I'd never send someone to get him at school, the park -- anywhere really -- who didn't know this word. To complicate matters, my ex and his mother had expressed interest in seeing Will, but weren't safe people, so I really felt we needed a safe word. Not everyone will need a safe word, but for kids who are away from Mom -- school, etc -- they're good to have.
Anyway, I really recommend this book. It's not easy to read -- he lays out some scary stories -- but I think he shares important information.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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***
I read this book a few months ago, and I found it really had a lot to offer. Much of what he said, I'd heard growing up -- about your own instincts, fear being a gift, seeking out a Mom for help if you're lost, etc.
My experience is colored by two different parts of my life. When I was a teen, my Mom was a volunteer counselor with the Rape Crisis Center -- get a phone call middle of the night, meet the 'victim' and accompany her thru the hospital and police report kinda thing. In the process, I heard a lot about staying safe -- park under a light, the 'don't talk to strangers' rule isn't just for kids, etc.
Twenty years later I found myself Mom to a fearless wanderer (Will) who got lost repeatedly -- at the mall at Xmas time, around the neighborhood (the first time he wandered off from the babysitter's patio, he was 18 mos old). I tried telling him to never leave my side -- that didn't work well at all. LOL Will was the kind of kid who didn't really talk to strangers. He barely spoke to adults we knew. Will would get lost looking at something and fall behind, or wander away from the playset to see a pretty bird, then get lost because he was disoriented (because he hadn't paid attention to where he was going as he followed his whim).
What finally worked for us was 'arming' him -- by the time he was 30 mos old he could recite his name, my name, our phone number and address, and his grandma's name and phone number, too. He knew not to seek out a policeman or security guard, but to find a Mom. To call out Mom if he felt he was in immediate danger, because when a child screams Mom, every woman in the place spins to look around for the sound (even those who didn't bring their child along). To never get in a car with a stranger. To never go with someone who didn't know our family 'safe word.' That I'd never send someone to get him at school, the park -- anywhere really -- who didn't know this word. To complicate matters, my ex and his mother had expressed interest in seeing Will, but weren't safe people, so I really felt we needed a safe word. Not everyone will need a safe word, but for kids who are away from Mom -- school, etc -- they're good to have.
Anyway, I really recommend this book. It's not easy to read -- he lays out some scary stories -- but I think he shares important information.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Katharine Wise
Sure, this guy isn't a danger to her kids when Mom is there, but what about someday in a few week or months when her son runs into this man at the park/store/sidewalk and maybe Mom isn't around? Now that guy isn't technically a 'stranger' -- but does anyone know how safe he is, really?
********
This reminds me of an incident we had recently that reminded me of deBeckers book in a different way.
We had met a couple little girls, maybe 8 and 10yo, at the cemetery near our house where my boys ride their bikes. We live on Main Street, not really a neighborhood, and a lot of the houses around the cemetery are pretty run-down. Anyway, my boys are very shy but these two girls were very friendly and would come and chat with me whenever we were there. At some point they asked where we lived, so I pointed out our house to them. They were always unattended, so I never met the parents.
Then, on a bitterly cold day a few weeks ago, they showed up at my door wanting to know if they could come in and play. They were obviously freezing and told me their parents had gone shopping. So I let them in. At some point one of the girls asks me, "Do you know so-and-so? Well, if you ever meet them, stay away because they molested (who? I couldn't remember later)." Later, I learned that actually their parents were home putting up bunk beds and didn't want the girls in the way so had sent them to "go to a safe place with an adult home". After awhile the mom called them (they had some sort of CB radio thing?) and was furious when she heard where they were, "You know not to go to strangers' houses!" "But they aren't strangers! They're our friends."
At this point I walked the girls home and introduced myself to the mom, explaining that I had thought she wasn't home and was concerned because the girls looked frozen. But as I was thinking about it later, I was thinking how much this incident brings different aspects of safety into contrast. Yes, the girls went to what was essentially technically stranger's house, yet in terms of trusting their instincts I think I was indeed pretty safe bet:-) Certainly better than whomever they knew who had molested someone.
Katharine
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********
This reminds me of an incident we had recently that reminded me of deBeckers book in a different way.
We had met a couple little girls, maybe 8 and 10yo, at the cemetery near our house where my boys ride their bikes. We live on Main Street, not really a neighborhood, and a lot of the houses around the cemetery are pretty run-down. Anyway, my boys are very shy but these two girls were very friendly and would come and chat with me whenever we were there. At some point they asked where we lived, so I pointed out our house to them. They were always unattended, so I never met the parents.
Then, on a bitterly cold day a few weeks ago, they showed up at my door wanting to know if they could come in and play. They were obviously freezing and told me their parents had gone shopping. So I let them in. At some point one of the girls asks me, "Do you know so-and-so? Well, if you ever meet them, stay away because they molested (who? I couldn't remember later)." Later, I learned that actually their parents were home putting up bunk beds and didn't want the girls in the way so had sent them to "go to a safe place with an adult home". After awhile the mom called them (they had some sort of CB radio thing?) and was furious when she heard where they were, "You know not to go to strangers' houses!" "But they aren't strangers! They're our friends."
At this point I walked the girls home and introduced myself to the mom, explaining that I had thought she wasn't home and was concerned because the girls looked frozen. But as I was thinking about it later, I was thinking how much this incident brings different aspects of safety into contrast. Yes, the girls went to what was essentially technically stranger's house, yet in terms of trusting their instincts I think I was indeed pretty safe bet:-) Certainly better than whomever they knew who had molested someone.
Katharine
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Kelly Weyd
Interesting point Katharine. One of my daughters would go with anybody.......I don't think she has any instinct about who is safe and who is not. Personally I think it's because she was a foster child (we adopted her) and she was in a number of homes, and bounced around before she came to us.
When we were having our house built after moving, we lived in a rental house till the new house was done. Every day these two boys (around the same age as my oldest daughter who is 8) would come to my house after they got out of school. At first I would go outside with my kids and the two boys and they would all play. I met one of the little boys Moms, but never, ever did I meet the other boys Mom........she never, ever came to see where he was. On rainy days he would come inside my house......sometimes for hours at a time. I just thought it was so weird that I never laid eyes on this kids parents. Now we live in a neighborhood where everyone knows each other, looks out for each others kids, and where parents check to see where their children are.
Kelly
Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
Sure, this guy isn't a danger to her kids when Mom is there, but what about someday in a few week or months when her son runs into this man at the park/store/sidewalk and maybe Mom isn't around? Now that guy isn't technically a 'stranger' -- but does anyone know how safe he is, really?
********
This reminds me of an incident we had recently that reminded me of deBeckers book in a different way.
We had met a couple little girls, maybe 8 and 10yo, at the cemetery near our house where my boys ride their bikes. We live on Main Street, not really a neighborhood, and a lot of the houses around the cemetery are pretty run-down. Anyway, my boys are very shy but these two girls were very friendly and would come and chat with me whenever we were there. At some point they asked where we lived, so I pointed out our house to them. They were always unattended, so I never met the parents.
Then, on a bitterly cold day a few weeks ago, they showed up at my door wanting to know if they could come in and play. They were obviously freezing and told me their parents had gone shopping. So I let them in. At some point one of the girls asks me, "Do you know so-and-so? Well, if you ever meet them, stay away because they molested (who? I couldn't remember later)." Later, I learned that actually their parents were home putting up bunk beds and didn't want the girls in the way so had sent them to "go to a safe place with an adult home". After awhile the mom called them (they had some sort of CB radio thing?) and was furious when she heard where they were, "You know not to go to strangers' houses!" "But they aren't strangers! They're our friends."
At this point I walked the girls home and introduced myself to the mom, explaining that I had thought she wasn't home and was concerned because the girls looked frozen. But as I was thinking about it later, I was thinking how much this incident brings different aspects of safety into contrast. Yes, the girls went to what was essentially technically stranger's house, yet in terms of trusting their instincts I think I was indeed pretty safe bet:-) Certainly better than whomever they knew who had molested someone.
Katharine
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When we were having our house built after moving, we lived in a rental house till the new house was done. Every day these two boys (around the same age as my oldest daughter who is 8) would come to my house after they got out of school. At first I would go outside with my kids and the two boys and they would all play. I met one of the little boys Moms, but never, ever did I meet the other boys Mom........she never, ever came to see where he was. On rainy days he would come inside my house......sometimes for hours at a time. I just thought it was so weird that I never laid eyes on this kids parents. Now we live in a neighborhood where everyone knows each other, looks out for each others kids, and where parents check to see where their children are.
Kelly
Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
Sure, this guy isn't a danger to her kids when Mom is there, but what about someday in a few week or months when her son runs into this man at the park/store/sidewalk and maybe Mom isn't around? Now that guy isn't technically a 'stranger' -- but does anyone know how safe he is, really?
********
This reminds me of an incident we had recently that reminded me of deBeckers book in a different way.
We had met a couple little girls, maybe 8 and 10yo, at the cemetery near our house where my boys ride their bikes. We live on Main Street, not really a neighborhood, and a lot of the houses around the cemetery are pretty run-down. Anyway, my boys are very shy but these two girls were very friendly and would come and chat with me whenever we were there. At some point they asked where we lived, so I pointed out our house to them. They were always unattended, so I never met the parents.
Then, on a bitterly cold day a few weeks ago, they showed up at my door wanting to know if they could come in and play. They were obviously freezing and told me their parents had gone shopping. So I let them in. At some point one of the girls asks me, "Do you know so-and-so? Well, if you ever meet them, stay away because they molested (who? I couldn't remember later)." Later, I learned that actually their parents were home putting up bunk beds and didn't want the girls in the way so had sent them to "go to a safe place with an adult home". After awhile the mom called them (they had some sort of CB radio thing?) and was furious when she heard where they were, "You know not to go to strangers' houses!" "But they aren't strangers! They're our friends."
At this point I walked the girls home and introduced myself to the mom, explaining that I had thought she wasn't home and was concerned because the girls looked frozen. But as I was thinking about it later, I was thinking how much this incident brings different aspects of safety into contrast. Yes, the girls went to what was essentially technically stranger's house, yet in terms of trusting their instincts I think I was indeed pretty safe bet:-) Certainly better than whomever they knew who had molested someone.
Katharine
__________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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Kelly Weyd
I have a friend that was molested as a child by an Uncle. One of her big pet peeves is the parent that "makes" their child hug everyone as they leave a relatives house or a friends house. For that reason I let my children choose who they want to hug or not. Just because it's a relative does not mean my girls have to hug or kiss them if they are not comfortable with it.
Kelly
Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
A great book on this topic is "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin deBecker. His other book is "The Gift of Fear", so now you know what the gift is:-) Anyway, his books are about learning to trust our instincts -- not being fearful of everything and everyone but also not talking ourselves out of fear when we do genuinely experience it. He says that a lot of time a true sense of fear is based on tips we've noticed subconsciously but haven't had time to process. Protecting the Gift is specifically about helping our children. Also includes lots of tips on indicators that someone really may have bad intentions and teaching our children what to do if they do get lost. (Don't look for a police officer or someone in uniform -- look for a woman, especially a mom with children, whom you feel comfortable with. Don't go with the person who comes up to you and offers help -- seek out someone to ask for help.) Truly great books.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 12:43:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: the best laid plans of mice and moms
~~****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
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Kelly
Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
A great book on this topic is "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin deBecker. His other book is "The Gift of Fear", so now you know what the gift is:-) Anyway, his books are about learning to trust our instincts -- not being fearful of everything and everyone but also not talking ourselves out of fear when we do genuinely experience it. He says that a lot of time a true sense of fear is based on tips we've noticed subconsciously but haven't had time to process. Protecting the Gift is specifically about helping our children. Also includes lots of tips on indicators that someone really may have bad intentions and teaching our children what to do if they do get lost. (Don't look for a police officer or someone in uniform -- look for a woman, especially a mom with children, whom you feel comfortable with. Don't go with the person who comes up to you and offers help -- seek out someone to ask for help.) Truly great books.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 12:43:50 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: the best laid plans of mice and moms
~~****
Because it's creepy to have a strange man offer 'special' anything to
a child.~~
I think that's handing kids a whole lotta baggage. The Mom was right
there, am I correct? What possible harm is there in a stranger
interacting with a child while the mother is present and aware?
__________________________________________________________
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wuweimama
We've had lengthy discussions about stranger danger and child
abduction risks on the Always Unschooled list. I'm copying a post
which I totally agree with:
-- In [email protected], "beth1813" <edfuller@...>
wrote:
polite or be respectful, etc. Since I try to never do that> to my dd,
she is much better about following her instincts. I think it goes hand
in hand with> the discussion about not making our children reply to
adults who ask impertinent questions.
then kids who are constantly "taught" to respect adults,
explaining to them the potential dangers and exposing> them to fear.
The biggest lesson for me in my unschooling journey is to understand
that> decisions made out of fear are never my best decisions.>>>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/message/12531
According to the FBI's statistics of kidnapping children in America,
strangers kidnap about 300 children every year.
http://www.protect-your-kid.com/page/977976 That is 300 children of
72,000,000 children in the US. The risk is much less than death by MVA.
Pat
abduction risks on the Always Unschooled list. I'm copying a post
which I totally agree with:
-- In [email protected], "beth1813" <edfuller@...>
wrote:
>being in situations that did> not feel "right" but being forced to be
> I wanted to mention instinct. When I was a kid I remember often
polite or be respectful, etc. Since I try to never do that> to my dd,
she is much better about following her instincts. I think it goes hand
in hand with> the discussion about not making our children reply to
adults who ask impertinent questions.
> My dd has no problem walking away from situations that do notfeel "right" to her. Therefore,> I feel that she is less vulnerable
then kids who are constantly "taught" to respect adults,
> follow orders, or be polite. I think allowing your child to listento their own instincts is a far> greater protective advantage than
explaining to them the potential dangers and exposing> them to fear.
The biggest lesson for me in my unschooling journey is to understand
that> decisions made out of fear are never my best decisions.>>>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/message/12531
According to the FBI's statistics of kidnapping children in America,
strangers kidnap about 300 children every year.
http://www.protect-your-kid.com/page/977976 That is 300 children of
72,000,000 children in the US. The risk is much less than death by MVA.
Pat
Sylvia Toyama
I have a friend that was molested as a child by an Uncle. One of her big pet peeves is the parent that "makes" their child hug everyone as they leave a relatives house or a friends house.
***
Yep. My Mom was molested at 4 by an Uncle; my sister was raped at age 10 by a 16yo step-cousin; more recently, we learned at least one aunt was molested by an uncle (Dad of the step-cousin who raped my sister).
My Mom never forced us to hug/kiss anyone; would that she'd been as vigilant about overnights at the perv's house, but it wasn't common knowledge then.
Sylvia
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***
Yep. My Mom was molested at 4 by an Uncle; my sister was raped at age 10 by a 16yo step-cousin; more recently, we learned at least one aunt was molested by an uncle (Dad of the step-cousin who raped my sister).
My Mom never forced us to hug/kiss anyone; would that she'd been as vigilant about overnights at the perv's house, but it wasn't common knowledge then.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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