Uncomfortable in/fear of public places was Re: Unschooling Catagories
Leslie Kowalski
My children deal with this public/social anxiety too. They each have
their own set of fears, but both sets often prevent us from going
out, or staying at a place where we already are.
For Tess (7 years old), it's usually about bees, but it can be other
things that she doesn't name (a "funny feeling") she calls it. For
Paige (4 years old), it's anything closing (and this can be anything
even remotely related to closing - the library announcing that they
will close in 30 minutes, a cashier closing her aisle, a librarian
shutting down her computer, the end of a temple service or a musical
performance, etc). For both of them, and especially for Paige, it's
pandemonium once they decide it's time to leave.
My main problem with this is not meeting the need of each child. I
want to hug them and let them know it's okay to be scared. It's that
each one's fear changes what the other is doing, or what the whole
family is doing. Then, someone winds up feeling resentful.
Here's a small example. We decide we are going to the library. Tess
and Paige are both happy and we go. As we pull up to the parking
spot, Paige asks if it's almost dinner time. I say that we have
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time
and it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!).
I have started to make contingency plans, knowing that these things
can happen (bringing 2 cars to temple, or a show for example, so that
one of us can take Paige home if we need to). I've also started to
(with the help of this list, and various books) use calm moments to
talk about how we can help each other out, and meet each other's
needs. Both of these things are helping, but there are still
countless moments a day where both children need/want exactly the
opposite thing, and I can't choose.
Leslie (in NJ)
their own set of fears, but both sets often prevent us from going
out, or staying at a place where we already are.
For Tess (7 years old), it's usually about bees, but it can be other
things that she doesn't name (a "funny feeling") she calls it. For
Paige (4 years old), it's anything closing (and this can be anything
even remotely related to closing - the library announcing that they
will close in 30 minutes, a cashier closing her aisle, a librarian
shutting down her computer, the end of a temple service or a musical
performance, etc). For both of them, and especially for Paige, it's
pandemonium once they decide it's time to leave.
My main problem with this is not meeting the need of each child. I
want to hug them and let them know it's okay to be scared. It's that
each one's fear changes what the other is doing, or what the whole
family is doing. Then, someone winds up feeling resentful.
Here's a small example. We decide we are going to the library. Tess
and Paige are both happy and we go. As we pull up to the parking
spot, Paige asks if it's almost dinner time. I say that we have
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time
and it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!).
I have started to make contingency plans, knowing that these things
can happen (bringing 2 cars to temple, or a show for example, so that
one of us can take Paige home if we need to). I've also started to
(with the help of this list, and various books) use calm moments to
talk about how we can help each other out, and meet each other's
needs. Both of these things are helping, but there are still
countless moments a day where both children need/want exactly the
opposite thing, and I can't choose.
Leslie (in NJ)
Cameron Parham
*there are countless moments in each day where both children need/wanr exactly the opposite thing and I can't choose*
This is hard for me, too, and I add a 3rd child! That was one of my frustrations with The Unprocessed Child, she only had one child. And when you must choose the kids try to keep score and all of them think that I always favor someone else! The debates and wailing and hurt feelings can be exhausting. I guess that as they have gotten older and lost some of these fears and learned to govern their emotions it's a little easier but never easy. Sorry I had no answers just commiseration! Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Leslie Kowalski <lrkowalski@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:18:06 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Uncomfortable in/fear of public places was Re: Unschooling Catagories
My children deal with this public/social anxiety too. They each have
their own set of fears, but both sets often prevent us from going
out, or staying at a place where we already are.
For Tess (7 years old), it's usually about bees, but it can be other
things that she doesn't name (a "funny feeling") she calls it. For
Paige (4 years old), it's anything closing (and this can be anything
even remotely related to closing - the library announcing that they
will close in 30 minutes, a cashier closing her aisle, a librarian
shutting down her computer, the end of a temple service or a musical
performance, etc). For both of them, and especially for Paige, it's
pandemonium once they decide it's time to leave.
My main problem with this is not meeting the need of each child. I
want to hug them and let them know it's okay to be scared. It's that
each one's fear changes what the other is doing, or what the whole
family is doing. Then, someone winds up feeling resentful.
Here's a small example. We decide we are going to the library. Tess
and Paige are both happy and we go. As we pull up to the parking
spot, Paige asks if it's almost dinner time. I say that we have
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time
and it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!).
I have started to make contingency plans, knowing that these things
can happen (bringing 2 cars to temple, or a show for example, so that
one of us can take Paige home if we need to). I've also started to
(with the help of this list, and various books) use calm moments to
talk about how we can help each other out, and meet each other's
needs. Both of these things are helping, but there are still
countless moments a day where both children need/want exactly the
opposite thing, and I can't choose.
Leslie (in NJ)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is hard for me, too, and I add a 3rd child! That was one of my frustrations with The Unprocessed Child, she only had one child. And when you must choose the kids try to keep score and all of them think that I always favor someone else! The debates and wailing and hurt feelings can be exhausting. I guess that as they have gotten older and lost some of these fears and learned to govern their emotions it's a little easier but never easy. Sorry I had no answers just commiseration! Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Leslie Kowalski <lrkowalski@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:18:06 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Uncomfortable in/fear of public places was Re: Unschooling Catagories
My children deal with this public/social anxiety too. They each have
their own set of fears, but both sets often prevent us from going
out, or staying at a place where we already are.
For Tess (7 years old), it's usually about bees, but it can be other
things that she doesn't name (a "funny feeling") she calls it. For
Paige (4 years old), it's anything closing (and this can be anything
even remotely related to closing - the library announcing that they
will close in 30 minutes, a cashier closing her aisle, a librarian
shutting down her computer, the end of a temple service or a musical
performance, etc). For both of them, and especially for Paige, it's
pandemonium once they decide it's time to leave.
My main problem with this is not meeting the need of each child. I
want to hug them and let them know it's okay to be scared. It's that
each one's fear changes what the other is doing, or what the whole
family is doing. Then, someone winds up feeling resentful.
Here's a small example. We decide we are going to the library. Tess
and Paige are both happy and we go. As we pull up to the parking
spot, Paige asks if it's almost dinner time. I say that we have
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time
and it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!).
I have started to make contingency plans, knowing that these things
can happen (bringing 2 cars to temple, or a show for example, so that
one of us can take Paige home if we need to). I've also started to
(with the help of this list, and various books) use calm moments to
talk about how we can help each other out, and meet each other's
needs. Both of these things are helping, but there are still
countless moments a day where both children need/want exactly the
opposite thing, and I can't choose.
Leslie (in NJ)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura
"Paige asks if it's almost dinner time. I say that we have
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time and
it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!)."
I have 4 and 5 year old boys and my 5 year old especially shows some
anxiety like that. For example if we are going someplace he really
wants to go and it starts at 3 (noone will be there till 3) but we
leave at 2 to run an errand on the way. He will be very anxious and
upset the whole time cause he thinks we will be late. He has little
concept of time being 5 and I reassure him and he is getting better
about it and sometimes we avoid running errands on the way but
sometimes it in unavoidable. I think in the situation you described
above being that 4 year olds have very little concept of time you
might not go into detail but say, "why do you ask are you hungry" and
give her a snack before going in and if she says no she is just
curious just say oh we have plenty of time and go in the library
without going into detail of how long and what your doing next ect.
cause that just pushes her mind forward onto the next thing instead
of the thing you are doing right now.
We spend alot of time negociating between two wills and interests too.
about a hour before Daddy gets home and then we'll head home for
dinner (I try to be careful not to mention anything closing!).
Paige's brain starts thinking that dinner time is close to night-
time, which means that the library might close sometime soon. Since
she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
she doesn't want to go. Now Tess is upset because she still wants to
go. I have no way of helping both children at that moment in time and
it feels so hard for me to handle (which means all 3 of us are
upset!)."
I have 4 and 5 year old boys and my 5 year old especially shows some
anxiety like that. For example if we are going someplace he really
wants to go and it starts at 3 (noone will be there till 3) but we
leave at 2 to run an errand on the way. He will be very anxious and
upset the whole time cause he thinks we will be late. He has little
concept of time being 5 and I reassure him and he is getting better
about it and sometimes we avoid running errands on the way but
sometimes it in unavoidable. I think in the situation you described
above being that 4 year olds have very little concept of time you
might not go into detail but say, "why do you ask are you hungry" and
give her a snack before going in and if she says no she is just
curious just say oh we have plenty of time and go in the library
without going into detail of how long and what your doing next ect.
cause that just pushes her mind forward onto the next thing instead
of the thing you are doing right now.
We spend alot of time negociating between two wills and interests too.
wuweimama
--- In [email protected], Leslie Kowalski
<lrkowalski@...> wrote:
<< Both of these things are helping, but there are still
seemingly opposing wants, appear to be either/or. We seek to identify
the underlying needs, rather than focusing on the strategies to meet
those needs. We don't *choose* between our children's wants; together
we create solutions which are preferable to all involved. You all are
welcome to join the list for developing 'out of the box' solutions for
specific situations which have a pattern of frustration for your
families. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/?yguid=287472904
Pat
(from the home page): Consensual living is a process, a philosophy, a
mindset by which we seek to live in harmony with our families and
community. It involves finding mutually agreed upon solutions, where
the needs of both parties are not only considered but addressed.
Everyone's wants and needs are equally valid, regardless of age.
Conflicting wants or needs are discussed and mutually agreeable
solutions are created or negotiated which meet the underlying needs of
all parties.
Beginners to this concept are welcome to join this list, living
consensually is an ongoing process of discovery. We ask that you be
open to or on the path toward living consensually. We hope to explore
the issues by asking questions, and sharing our experiences. Parenting
is a sensitive issue for many people but we are all here to practice
this process, and can do so if the environment remains one of respect,
compassion, exploration and understanding. If you would like more
information about Consensual Living or would like to sign up for the
Consensual Living Newsletter, please visit our web site:
http://www.consensual-living.com
<lrkowalski@...> wrote:
<< Both of these things are helping, but there are still
> countless moments a day where both children need/want exactly theOn the Consensual Living list we discuss exactly this issue where
> opposite thing, and I can't choose.
>
seemingly opposing wants, appear to be either/or. We seek to identify
the underlying needs, rather than focusing on the strategies to meet
those needs. We don't *choose* between our children's wants; together
we create solutions which are preferable to all involved. You all are
welcome to join the list for developing 'out of the box' solutions for
specific situations which have a pattern of frustration for your
families. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/?yguid=287472904
Pat
(from the home page): Consensual living is a process, a philosophy, a
mindset by which we seek to live in harmony with our families and
community. It involves finding mutually agreed upon solutions, where
the needs of both parties are not only considered but addressed.
Everyone's wants and needs are equally valid, regardless of age.
Conflicting wants or needs are discussed and mutually agreeable
solutions are created or negotiated which meet the underlying needs of
all parties.
Beginners to this concept are welcome to join this list, living
consensually is an ongoing process of discovery. We ask that you be
open to or on the path toward living consensually. We hope to explore
the issues by asking questions, and sharing our experiences. Parenting
is a sensitive issue for many people but we are all here to practice
this process, and can do so if the environment remains one of respect,
compassion, exploration and understanding. If you would like more
information about Consensual Living or would like to sign up for the
Consensual Living Newsletter, please visit our web site:
http://www.consensual-living.com
wuweimama
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
when you must choose the kids try to keep score and all of them think
that I always favor someone else!
Many of the 500+ families on the Consensual Living list have multiple
children. By creating solutions which address the *underlying needs*
of all members, everyone feels heard and working *together*, rather
than against one another to have their solution "win". You are welcome
to bring challenging situations to the group for discussion and ideas.
It is a completely different atmosphere, when you trust that there ARE
solutions which everyone prefers, rather than settling on compromises
where someone gives in.
Pat
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>need/wanr exactly the opposite thing and I can't choose*
> *there are countless moments in each day where both children
> This is hard for me, too, and I add a 3rd child! That was one of myfrustrations with The Unprocessed Child, she only had one child. And
when you must choose the kids try to keep score and all of them think
that I always favor someone else!
Many of the 500+ families on the Consensual Living list have multiple
children. By creating solutions which address the *underlying needs*
of all members, everyone feels heard and working *together*, rather
than against one another to have their solution "win". You are welcome
to bring challenging situations to the group for discussion and ideas.
It is a completely different atmosphere, when you trust that there ARE
solutions which everyone prefers, rather than settling on compromises
where someone gives in.
Pat
jane doe
> ----- Original Message ----Time is a tough concept to figure out, I'm 50 and
> From: Leslie Kowalski <lrkowalski@...>
> Paige (4 years old), it's anything closing (and this
> can be anything
> even remotely related to closing
still have trouble figuring out time frames sometimes.
On a practical note, have you tried giving her a
watch, a stopwatch, or a timer so she can keep track
of how long it will be before something closes? Then,
be sure you get there way ahead of closing you you are
always long gone before time runs out.
ELISA
We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone
We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa
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Joyce Fetteroll
> SinceI used to express time in terms of favorite TV shows. I'd walk
> she's 4, she can't understand that the library closing in an hour (or
> 2 hours) is a pretty long time, so she starts to freak out and now
> she doesn't want to go.
through the math (since I had to do it in my head anyway) and then
translate it into TV shows. Like if she asked how long until Daddy
gets home I'd say, It's almost 2 now and he gets home at 6 [counting
off on my fingers] 3, 4, 5, 6 so 4 hours or 8 Bill Nyes."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]