seccotine_ch

Hi

I wrote here a few weeks ago about Sylvain (6yo) who wants to go back
to school.

Except for my feelings of sadness and failure, which exist and have
to be addressed somehow but not necessarily here and now, I have a
lot of questions around this "project".

How can I help him ?

My husband says that we shouldn't let him go back to school, as he
didn't like it when he was there, and neither did we (actually I was
surprised how much we disliked it as I had good memories from my
school years ... now, when I think about it, I realize that I wasn't
that happy in school, only happier than at home, well) ...

I don't agree with that, I think that we can't take such a decision
for him - but what I don't know, is how to help him.

I would like to know why he wants to resume school - I guess that he
misses his friends and some of the aspects of the "collective life",
but I'm not sure. He said that he wants homework, so maybe he wants
to do more craft work ?

So how can I understand more what he wants ? When I ask him, I don't
really understand his answers, he mixes so many elements. He knows
that I would prefer to go on with unschooling so he also tries to
find explanations to "please" me ... How can I make him understand
that, though I would miss him and our unschooling life, it's OK for
me if it's better for him to go to school ? Or, rather, how can I
convince myself that, though I would miss him, etc. ?

And if he needs to go back to school, what can I do to accompany him
in this decision ? Is it better to tell him that he can go there, see
if he likes it, finds what he needs and if it's not the case, he can
stop again ? My husband says that Sylvain is going to change his mind
all the time - I doubt it, but who knows ... (don't think of my
husband as a bad man, he will be one of the strongest support of
Sylvain whatever - but he's also sad and disappointed and this has
the consequence of sucking all his trust out of him - about people,
about the future).

Sorry for my bad sentences, very frustrating for me to express myself
so roughly when I need so much your help. I hope that your
reformulation would help :)

Many thanks in advance
Helen - worried, but trying to do the best for his son (even if the
best for him is school ...)

Sylvia Toyama

I don't agree with that, I think that we can't take such a decision for him - but what I don't know, is how to help him.

*****
I agree with you that, ideally, you shouldn't make the decision for Sylvain, but there are some practical considerations for you as the parents. You will be called upon to enforce homework, and to 'do something' about any behavioral issues he may have.

****
I would like to know why he wants to resume school - I guess that he misses his friends and some of the aspects of the "collective life", but I'm not sure. He said that he wants homework, so maybe he wants to do more craft work ?

*****
What has Sylvian said about why he wants to go? He really wants homework? So, do some schooly things. You can print up math worksheets (Andy used to enjoy these, but nor for the past year or so -- it's my inlaws influence) and let him 'assign' it to himself or come up with his own homework schedule. Just the other evening, Andy wrote out a very detailed schedule of 'practice' times for his harmonica and juggling pursuits -- he's never had formal lessons for those, but feels a need to practice. Maybe he needs to feel like he's 'doing' more than it feels right now.

At 6, if he's been in school, how long has he been out? Are y'all still de-schooling, and could this be part of that process?

*****
So how can I understand more what he wants ? When I ask him, I don't really understand his answers, he mixes so many elements. He knows that I would prefer to go on with unschooling so he also tries to find explanations to "please" me ... How can I make him understand that, though I would miss him and our unschooling life, it's OK for me if it's better for him to go to school ? Or, rather, how can I convince myself that, though I would miss him, etc. ?

*****
Personally, I don't think anything could convince me school is better for my (or any) kids who have the option to unschool, so I understand how hard this it.

Maybe, instead of asking him why he wants to go to school, ask him what he expects to find there. Listening to what his expectations are could help you find ways to give him those experiences/feelings at home. Does he want/need more friends? Or a sense that he's doing something? Or more structure at home? All of those things can be met at home. Maybe he needs something that's just his, about him?

Also, how much would his days and weeks change if he was in school? Has he thought about that? A couple of weeks ago, both Andy & Dan started saying the wanted to go to school -- Andy definitely for college, maybe he should go for middle or high school? (I have to say I would do everything in my power to keep a child home from middle-school specifically). Dan -- kindergarten age -- said he'd like to go next year. Now, while it's obvious to anyone who knows Andy that school would be a disaster (he has some very quirky OC-like issues) Dan's pretty 'normal' and easygoing for a 6yo.

However, both are a bit feral -- uncombed hair, Dan will wear the same clothes for 10 or more days, both sleep late and start out kinda slow, Andy is very stream of consciousness and will talk your ear off. So I point out things that wouldn't be a good fit for them -- "you'd have to wash that hair coupla times a week, and we'd have to comb out the tangles every day." or "well, yeah, recess looks like fun, but it's only 20 minutes, and you'd have to wait for a turn on the swings/slide/climber with a couple of hundred other kids -- no guarantee you'd even get a turn."

*****

And if he needs to go back to school, what can I do to accompany him in this decision ? Is it better to tell him that he can go there, see if he likes it, finds what he needs and if it's not the case, he can stop again ?

****
Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids to miss school only a very few days -- letting him stay home when he's not really sick can lead to truancy charges against the parents in our state. Once the school gets that word into its head, they can make it very hard to homeschool, calling every choice the parents makes into question.

Sure, he can quit whenever he chooses, but it needs to be a clean break, with no going back and forth -- that would be an invitation to CPS and everyone else into your home and parenting choices.

You have several months before school starts back up for the year -- listen to what he thinks school can/will mean for him and find a way to meet those needs at home. Maybe take a few weeks to stop talking about it and just live your life with Sylvian. By spending energy on the school question you're missing out on time you could be living as if school doesn't exist at all.

Sylvia



Gary (dh)
Will (22) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (6)

A friend is someone who knows your song, and sings it to you when you’ve forgotten it yourself.
~Alan Cohen


http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laura

My ds is 5 and due to start K next year. He has an idea of school from
shows, friends, etc. The other day he saw a song on Sesame Street that
was all about all the fun things you do at school and after it was over
he looked at me and said "so, is school really all that great?".
Honestly I was proud at him for questioning something like that. I
explained to him that somethings about school are fun but also
explained that we do all those fun things at home and with friends
anyway. He has expressed a desire to go (especially after playing with
schooled friends or wanting to play with them and they are in school. )
It is hard for him to understand he wont be able to see those friends
all day cause they are a different age. Anyway, I think for the most
part i have gotten him to explain what interests him about school and
we are finding ways to meet those needs. I think he will want to try
it sometime but am trying to put it off as long as i can. i doubt my
younger son will ever want to go.

Vickisue Gray

Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids to miss school only a very few days --

That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she didn't want to and that was often.
She's missed more then a quarter of the year and still past with high grades.

~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick can lead to truancy charges against the parents in our state.~~

Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"

~~Once the school gets that word into its head, they can make it very hard to homeschool, calling every choice the parents makes into question.~~

Takes extreme situation here.

~~Sure, he can quit whenever he chooses, but it needs to be a clean break, with no going back and forth -- that would be an invitation to CPS and everyone else into your home and parenting choices.~~

I can see frequency being an issue, but we did it for three years without issue.

TALK TO YOUR CHILD!!!!!!

I've been talking to my daughter since forever, (Since the womb and her choosing her own name.)

Keeping open communication is the key element to parenting. When you can trust your child to be honest with you and you can be honest, too, that's when you two can learn and grow together. Life is an experience with an end goal. Not some mandatoy set of rules that must be reached and followed in a set pattern. Sometimes life throws things at you , you never expected nor wanted but by staying rigid in these pre-described patterns, you are doomed to fail.

These last few weeks have been some of the tough ones for us. I recently posted of my daughter losing her two best friends. Well, life continues to be rough as she at 11.75 grade level, on an accelerated level, has decided to walk away from it all. She was always the perfect student. She's giving up scholarship, prom and everything else, as she can't take being at the school any longer.

She now chooses to join my son in unschooling. This summer she will pursue her pilot's license. Re-start martial arts and yogo. And start training to becoming a firefighter. I can totally relate to her current stress and commend her for finding a positive direction through it.
Talk to your kids! Respect them! They are ours far too short of a time to do otherwise.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids to miss school only a very few days --

That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she didn't want to and that was often.
She's missed more then a quarter of the year and still past with high grades.

****
I'm sure it varies from district to district, but here in New Mexico, they're making a huge fuss over truancy. I've talked to parents who were told by the principal that after the 'allowed' number of absences, a child must have a doctor's excuse, or the absence will be considered truancy.

There was a newspaper article last year where they detailed the 'case' against the Mom of a middle-school student who was chronically skipping classes, even whole days/weeks. The boy continued to skip school, and it was him Mom up on charges of truancy.

****
~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick can lead to truancy charges against the parents in our state.~~

Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"

****
In New Mexico, they can require parents to prove the child was sick, asking for a doctor's note.

Sylvia



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Mara

Just an interesting side-note: When my son was in
middle school he was constantly sick, really,
seriously sick, which was also one of the reasons we
took him out. Since then (2 years ago), he has rarely
been sick and hasn't missed a day at Sudbury Valley.
Good luck,
Mara

--- Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:

> Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids
> to miss school only a very few days --
>
> That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she
> didn't want to and that was often.
> She's missed more then a quarter of the year and
> still past with high grades.
>
> ****
> I'm sure it varies from district to district, but
> here in New Mexico, they're making a huge fuss over
> truancy. I've talked to parents who were told by
> the principal that after the 'allowed' number of
> absences, a child must have a doctor's excuse, or
> the absence will be considered truancy.
>
> There was a newspaper article last year where they
> detailed the 'case' against the Mom of a
> middle-school student who was chronically skipping
> classes, even whole days/weeks. The boy continued
> to skip school, and it was him Mom up on charges of
> truancy.
>
> ****
> ~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick
> can lead to truancy charges against the parents in
> our state.~~
>
> Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"
>
> ****
> In New Mexico, they can require parents to prove
> the child was sick, asking for a doctor's note.
>
> Sylvia
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
> always stay connected to friends.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>





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Kelly Weyd

When I lived in Jersey, my daughter missed 11 days in a row because she had the flu. I had to get a doctors note to prove she had the flu. I found it kind of ridiculous because she was only in the first grade. I'm glad I no longer have to deal with that.
kelly

Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids to miss school only a very few days --

That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she didn't want to and that was often.
She's missed more then a quarter of the year and still past with high grades.

****
I'm sure it varies from district to district, but here in New Mexico, they're making a huge fuss over truancy. I've talked to parents who were told by the principal that after the 'allowed' number of absences, a child must have a doctor's excuse, or the absence will be considered truancy.

There was a newspaper article last year where they detailed the 'case' against the Mom of a middle-school student who was chronically skipping classes, even whole days/weeks. The boy continued to skip school, and it was him Mom up on charges of truancy.

****
~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick can lead to truancy charges against the parents in our state.~~

Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"

****
In New Mexico, they can require parents to prove the child was sick, asking for a doctor's note.

Sylvia

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Kelly Weyd

I know, last year when my girls were in public school they were sick the entire year.......it was just one thing after another. This year we have not been on antibiotics once (knock on wood). Each of my girls has had a couple small colds, that did not affect day to day life. The only thing we have been to the Pediatrician for this past year is my 7 year old had a rash on her head, which was an allergic reaction to pool chemicals......once again knock on wood.
Kelly

Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
Just an interesting side-note: When my son was in
middle school he was constantly sick, really,
seriously sick, which was also one of the reasons we
took him out. Since then (2 years ago), he has rarely
been sick and hasn't missed a day at Sudbury Valley.
Good luck,
Mara

--- Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:

> Here it can get sticky. Today, schools expect kids
> to miss school only a very few days --
>
> That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she
> didn't want to and that was often.
> She's missed more then a quarter of the year and
> still past with high grades.
>
> ****
> I'm sure it varies from district to district, but
> here in New Mexico, they're making a huge fuss over
> truancy. I've talked to parents who were told by
> the principal that after the 'allowed' number of
> absences, a child must have a doctor's excuse, or
> the absence will be considered truancy.
>
> There was a newspaper article last year where they
> detailed the 'case' against the Mom of a
> middle-school student who was chronically skipping
> classes, even whole days/weeks. The boy continued
> to skip school, and it was him Mom up on charges of
> truancy.
>
> ****
> ~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick
> can lead to truancy charges against the parents in
> our state.~~
>
> Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"
>
> ****
> In New Mexico, they can require parents to prove
> the child was sick, asking for a doctor's note.
>
> Sylvia
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
> always stay connected to friends.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Twila Francis

When I lived in Arizona my daughter was really sick
over a matter of a whole semester. All in all they
were not bad illnesses that I need to take her to the
doctor and spend a lot of money. But between the
death of her grandmother and the illness she had
missed 17 days. I was told that if she missed one
more day we would have to go to truancy court. I was
also told that if I could come up with doctor notes
and/or the death certificate it wouldn't be as much of
a big deal. I thought that was a little out of hand.
Of course I could show them the death certificate but
isn't my word good enough. Guess not when you have so
many missing for no reason. None the less now that my
daughter is home she has only been sick once in a
year. Hope this helps



--- Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...> wrote:

> When I lived in Jersey, my daughter missed 11 days
> in a row because she had the flu. I had to get a
> doctors note to prove she had the flu. I found it
> kind of ridiculous because she was only in the first
> grade. I'm glad I no longer have to deal with that.
>
> kelly
>
> Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
> Here it can get sticky. Today, schools
> expect kids to miss school only a very few days --
>
> That's a joke....My daughter never went a day she
> didn't want to and that was often.
> She's missed more then a quarter of the year and
> still past with high grades.
>
> ****
> I'm sure it varies from district to district, but
> here in New Mexico, they're making a huge fuss over
> truancy. I've talked to parents who were told by the
> principal that after the 'allowed' number of
> absences, a child must have a doctor's excuse, or
> the absence will be considered truancy.
>
> There was a newspaper article last year where they
> detailed the 'case' against the Mom of a
> middle-school student who was chronically skipping
> classes, even whole days/weeks. The boy continued to
> skip school, and it was him Mom up on charges of
> truancy.
>
> ****
> ~~letting him stay home when he's not really sick
> can lead to truancy charges against the parents in
> our state.~~
>
> Not mine. They'd have to prove "not sick"
>
> ****
> In New Mexico, they can require parents to prove the
> child was sick, asking for a doctor's note.
>
> Sylvia
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
> always stay connected to friends.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




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Cameron Parham

Laura,when my husband left our family and the kids really emotionally fell apart 4 years ago, I sent my kids to a very sweet, supportive small private school nearby (we had been homeschooling). They all hated it and never want to go again. I sent them out of exhaustion/emotional distress. The silver lining is that they never wonder if they would like it! Cameron


----- Original Message ----
From: Laura <lalow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:40:51 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: He wants to go back to school - other questions

My ds is 5 and due to start K next year. He has an idea of school from
shows, friends, etc. The other day he saw a song on Sesame Street that
was all about all the fun things you do at school and after it was over
he looked at me and said "so, is school really all that great?".
Honestly I was proud at him for questioning something like that. I
explained to him that somethings about school are fun but also
explained that we do all those fun things at home and with friends
anyway. He has expressed a desire to go (especially after playing with
schooled friends or wanting to play with them and they are in school. )
It is hard for him to understand he wont be able to see those friends
all day cause they are a different age. Anyway, I think for the most
part i have gotten him to explain what interests him about school and
we are finding ways to meet those needs. I think he will want to try
it sometime but am trying to put it off as long as i can. i doubt my
younger son will ever want to go.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]