Food wasting
Johanna
Hello,
I have a question that was posted in my German list. I'd be glad if
you had some hints on how to handle this. A 3-year-old goes everyday
through the park with his mum and everday he wants a special kind of
ice-cream, though he doesn't like it. He licks it and then doesn't
want it anymore. Mum doesn't want to throw it away, because of these
reasons:
- she's afraid she'll teach him/show him that wasting is ok
- there are poor children in the park and she feels strange throwing
it away, though it would be strange too to give them the already
licked ice-cream, both feels snobbish (they live in an Asian country)
- she just "can't" (she was conditioned that way when she was a child
So she eats it, but actually she doesn't like it at all. She is
convinced he's just trying to find out each day if it will taste good
today. She has seen this "wasting behaviour" also in other occasions,
for instance, when some toy breaks, he says "well, doesn't matter,
we'll buy another tomorrow".
We've already talked about it on the list and the only thing she
doesn't know how to do is to loose the fear that he'll never learn
not to be wasteful.
How can she loose that fear? We suggested that she changed rituals
(other park, other ways), but that won't be possible because he likes
rituals and it's him who leads the way. We also suggested that she
gave him money so he can spend and do with the things he buys as he
pleases, though this way she would still "see" that he throws it
away, and will probably end up eating it again. He doesn't want to
eat anything else... :) Probably, it's just a phase and he'll soon
learn that he just doesn't like this kind of ice-cream.
Maybe you have some ideas on how she could let go off the fear or can
propose any other point of view.
Would her strong feelings about this issue justify just not buying
the ice-cream anymore, because hse "knows" he's not gonna eat it
anyway? I personally think it's not a "limit" that justifys it
because there is not real danger involved...
Greetings
Johanna
--
Unerzogen!
dialog@...
www.unerzogen.de
http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/unerzogen/
I have a question that was posted in my German list. I'd be glad if
you had some hints on how to handle this. A 3-year-old goes everyday
through the park with his mum and everday he wants a special kind of
ice-cream, though he doesn't like it. He licks it and then doesn't
want it anymore. Mum doesn't want to throw it away, because of these
reasons:
- she's afraid she'll teach him/show him that wasting is ok
- there are poor children in the park and she feels strange throwing
it away, though it would be strange too to give them the already
licked ice-cream, both feels snobbish (they live in an Asian country)
- she just "can't" (she was conditioned that way when she was a child
So she eats it, but actually she doesn't like it at all. She is
convinced he's just trying to find out each day if it will taste good
today. She has seen this "wasting behaviour" also in other occasions,
for instance, when some toy breaks, he says "well, doesn't matter,
we'll buy another tomorrow".
We've already talked about it on the list and the only thing she
doesn't know how to do is to loose the fear that he'll never learn
not to be wasteful.
How can she loose that fear? We suggested that she changed rituals
(other park, other ways), but that won't be possible because he likes
rituals and it's him who leads the way. We also suggested that she
gave him money so he can spend and do with the things he buys as he
pleases, though this way she would still "see" that he throws it
away, and will probably end up eating it again. He doesn't want to
eat anything else... :) Probably, it's just a phase and he'll soon
learn that he just doesn't like this kind of ice-cream.
Maybe you have some ideas on how she could let go off the fear or can
propose any other point of view.
Would her strong feelings about this issue justify just not buying
the ice-cream anymore, because hse "knows" he's not gonna eat it
anyway? I personally think it's not a "limit" that justifys it
because there is not real danger involved...
Greetings
Johanna
--
Unerzogen!
dialog@...
www.unerzogen.de
http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/unerzogen/
Ren Allen
~~I personally think it's not a "limit" that justifys it
because there is not real danger involved...~~
I think it's warranted because it isn't aribtrary. He won't eat the
ice cream, she now knows this and spending money every day on
something I threw away would really bother me too.
I would offer to buy several different kinds of ice cream at home and
then he could try just one bite of everything!! Maybe one bite is
enough to satisfy, so buying it at the park isn't a good idea for this
child right at this time.
I like the idea of giving him some money of his own, then he can
choose how to use it and maybe he'll decide park ice cream isn't the
highest priority. If money really isn't an issue for them, maybe she
could offer to buy ice cream for all the kids at the park, so that
icky "wasted" feeling won't be so strong.
Maybe he could choose and prepare a snack to take to the park that is
easily saved should he not want to eat it.
I would definitely question the mindset behind those feelings of
wasted food though. She's eating something SHE doesn't really
want...so it's wasted food whether it goes into her body or the trash
can. I think it's worse to put wasted food into a body that doesn't
want it!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
because there is not real danger involved...~~
I think it's warranted because it isn't aribtrary. He won't eat the
ice cream, she now knows this and spending money every day on
something I threw away would really bother me too.
I would offer to buy several different kinds of ice cream at home and
then he could try just one bite of everything!! Maybe one bite is
enough to satisfy, so buying it at the park isn't a good idea for this
child right at this time.
I like the idea of giving him some money of his own, then he can
choose how to use it and maybe he'll decide park ice cream isn't the
highest priority. If money really isn't an issue for them, maybe she
could offer to buy ice cream for all the kids at the park, so that
icky "wasted" feeling won't be so strong.
Maybe he could choose and prepare a snack to take to the park that is
easily saved should he not want to eat it.
I would definitely question the mindset behind those feelings of
wasted food though. She's eating something SHE doesn't really
want...so it's wasted food whether it goes into her body or the trash
can. I think it's worse to put wasted food into a body that doesn't
want it!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: dialog@...
I have a question that was posted in my German list. I'd be glad if
you had some hints on how to handle this. A 3-year-old goes everyday
through the park with his mum and everday he wants a special kind of
ice-cream, though he doesn't like it. He licks it and then doesn't
want it anymore.
-=-=--=
I assume about $1/cone. He's *really* little, but I would talk about it
BEFORE going to the park. Give him $5 (or $7) for the week---all at
once. He can buy a cone and toss it, but that's his money for ice
cream. He likes rules. right? <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mum doesn't want to throw it away, because of these
reasons:
- she's afraid she'll teach him/show him that wasting is ok
-=-=-=-=-
If SHE is eating it, HE doesn't think he's wasting it at all---MOM's
eating it!
-=-=-=-=-
- there are poor children in the park and she feels strange throwing
it away, though it would be strange too to give them the already
licked ice-cream, both feels snobbish (they live in an Asian country)
-=-=-=-=-
It wouldn't happen all the time. It would take less time for him to
understand it if she wouldn't eat the ice cream.---LESS waste in teh
long run.
-=-=-=-=-
- she just "can't" (she was conditioned that way when she was a child
-=-=-==-
AH---if you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
I bet she *could*. It's amazing what we CAN do IF we DO!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: dialog@...
I have a question that was posted in my German list. I'd be glad if
you had some hints on how to handle this. A 3-year-old goes everyday
through the park with his mum and everday he wants a special kind of
ice-cream, though he doesn't like it. He licks it and then doesn't
want it anymore.
-=-=--=
I assume about $1/cone. He's *really* little, but I would talk about it
BEFORE going to the park. Give him $5 (or $7) for the week---all at
once. He can buy a cone and toss it, but that's his money for ice
cream. He likes rules. right? <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mum doesn't want to throw it away, because of these
reasons:
- she's afraid she'll teach him/show him that wasting is ok
-=-=-=-=-
If SHE is eating it, HE doesn't think he's wasting it at all---MOM's
eating it!
-=-=-=-=-
- there are poor children in the park and she feels strange throwing
it away, though it would be strange too to give them the already
licked ice-cream, both feels snobbish (they live in an Asian country)
-=-=-=-=-
It wouldn't happen all the time. It would take less time for him to
understand it if she wouldn't eat the ice cream.---LESS waste in teh
long run.
-=-=-=-=-
- she just "can't" (she was conditioned that way when she was a child
-=-=-==-
AH---if you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
I bet she *could*. It's amazing what we CAN do IF we DO!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Jessica Radtke
I'm coming out of lurkdom to give my opinion on this
one because I used to have a problem with "wasting
food" too. I used to do similar things like eating
what was left on my kids' plates because I didn't want
to "waste" it. We were on an extremely tight budget
and I let the idea of throwing away "perfectly good"
food really get to me. It seems to be my nature to
question anything and everything so of course I
questioned my reactions to this as well. Eventually I
came to the realization that it wasn't the "wasted"
*food* that I had a problem with, it was the "wasted"
*money*. If we had plenty of money I was much less
uptight about wasted food, but if money was tight I
became uptight about food again. But sometimes even
when we had plenty of money I would feel guilty about
"wasting" and worry about *other* people who don't
have enough money. It all came down to a fear of *lack
of money* for me. Once I started working through my
issues with money, I began to see the "wasted" food in
a different light.
I began to pay attention to the "wasteful" behavior
that happens in nature. If a monkey eats only half a
piece of fruit in the wild for instance, he just
tosses the rest on the ground. To us, this might seem
"wasteful", but in nature it serves an important
pupose. That "wasted" piece of fruit might feed other
animals and insects, decompose into nutrient rich
soil, and help spread seeds so that the plants
continue to multiply. In nature "wasting" *IS* okay.
It's part of a very natural, very *positive* process.
It's all in the way you look at it. So, with that in
mind we began to think of ways that our "wasteful"
behavior was actually *helpful* and started doing more
things to promote a more positive mindset about
"wasting" food. Some of the things we did were things
we had once done that had fallen by the wayside while
we were busy working on our house like composting and
starting a worm farm. But even when we threw food out
we did so with a different mindset. If we were out on
a picnic and couldn't put leftovers away for instance,
we would "feed the racoons" by putting it in the trash
can (racoons raid trashcans pretty regularly around
here). If there were ducks and we had bread or
crackers leftover, we'd feed the ducks. If something
accidentally dropped on the ground we would leave some
behind for the ants and other insects. In other words,
we paid attention to the ways in which we were
participating in nature's larger plan. After a while I
realized that by simply being more mindful about our
participation in "wasteful" behavior, we actually
became *LESS* wasteful! And it extended beyond just
food too.
I'm not saying that this exact mindset is what is
necessary for this mother however. I'm simply saying
that examining one's own reactions and the reasons
behind them will probably do more good and create more
change than trying to change *someone else's
behavior*. I say that becuase it seems to me that the
mother you mentioned is focusing a bit too much on how
she can change her *child's* behavior. His behavior
sounds appropriate for his age to me. I have a soon to
be 3 year old daughter and her behavior is very
similar sometimes. For instance, she may get an apple,
take two bites and then say she's done. But I also
have a 10 year old son who went through the same thing
at that age. It is perfectly natural for that age and
I know from experience with watching my son that my
daughter *will* grow out of it. I can trust in that
process because I've seen it before. But if this is
the mother's only (or oldest) child, she may have just
not developed that trust yet.
It sounds like there is a lot more dialogue that could
be going on between the mother and child. She might
want to talk to the child more about why he prefers
his routine though. (With the intention of simply
*understanding* and not *changing* it, mind you.)
Perhaps he just likes the predictability of it.
Perhaps he really *wants* to like that particular kind
of ice cream and so keeps trying it. Maybe the routine
has become a comfort ritual for him so he is unwilling
to give it up just yet. Maybe the child feels the lack
of trust coming from the mother and feels it as a lack
of trust in *HIM* and is trying to remedy that in a
roundabout way. Maybe he is just testing to see if his
reaction to the ice cream will always be the same.
There are many reasons why he might not want to change
that routine just yet. Once the mother is more
accepting of the "why", then maybe the child might be
more open to discussing the possibility of exchanging
this routine for another.
Jessica R.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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one because I used to have a problem with "wasting
food" too. I used to do similar things like eating
what was left on my kids' plates because I didn't want
to "waste" it. We were on an extremely tight budget
and I let the idea of throwing away "perfectly good"
food really get to me. It seems to be my nature to
question anything and everything so of course I
questioned my reactions to this as well. Eventually I
came to the realization that it wasn't the "wasted"
*food* that I had a problem with, it was the "wasted"
*money*. If we had plenty of money I was much less
uptight about wasted food, but if money was tight I
became uptight about food again. But sometimes even
when we had plenty of money I would feel guilty about
"wasting" and worry about *other* people who don't
have enough money. It all came down to a fear of *lack
of money* for me. Once I started working through my
issues with money, I began to see the "wasted" food in
a different light.
I began to pay attention to the "wasteful" behavior
that happens in nature. If a monkey eats only half a
piece of fruit in the wild for instance, he just
tosses the rest on the ground. To us, this might seem
"wasteful", but in nature it serves an important
pupose. That "wasted" piece of fruit might feed other
animals and insects, decompose into nutrient rich
soil, and help spread seeds so that the plants
continue to multiply. In nature "wasting" *IS* okay.
It's part of a very natural, very *positive* process.
It's all in the way you look at it. So, with that in
mind we began to think of ways that our "wasteful"
behavior was actually *helpful* and started doing more
things to promote a more positive mindset about
"wasting" food. Some of the things we did were things
we had once done that had fallen by the wayside while
we were busy working on our house like composting and
starting a worm farm. But even when we threw food out
we did so with a different mindset. If we were out on
a picnic and couldn't put leftovers away for instance,
we would "feed the racoons" by putting it in the trash
can (racoons raid trashcans pretty regularly around
here). If there were ducks and we had bread or
crackers leftover, we'd feed the ducks. If something
accidentally dropped on the ground we would leave some
behind for the ants and other insects. In other words,
we paid attention to the ways in which we were
participating in nature's larger plan. After a while I
realized that by simply being more mindful about our
participation in "wasteful" behavior, we actually
became *LESS* wasteful! And it extended beyond just
food too.
I'm not saying that this exact mindset is what is
necessary for this mother however. I'm simply saying
that examining one's own reactions and the reasons
behind them will probably do more good and create more
change than trying to change *someone else's
behavior*. I say that becuase it seems to me that the
mother you mentioned is focusing a bit too much on how
she can change her *child's* behavior. His behavior
sounds appropriate for his age to me. I have a soon to
be 3 year old daughter and her behavior is very
similar sometimes. For instance, she may get an apple,
take two bites and then say she's done. But I also
have a 10 year old son who went through the same thing
at that age. It is perfectly natural for that age and
I know from experience with watching my son that my
daughter *will* grow out of it. I can trust in that
process because I've seen it before. But if this is
the mother's only (or oldest) child, she may have just
not developed that trust yet.
It sounds like there is a lot more dialogue that could
be going on between the mother and child. She might
want to talk to the child more about why he prefers
his routine though. (With the intention of simply
*understanding* and not *changing* it, mind you.)
Perhaps he just likes the predictability of it.
Perhaps he really *wants* to like that particular kind
of ice cream and so keeps trying it. Maybe the routine
has become a comfort ritual for him so he is unwilling
to give it up just yet. Maybe the child feels the lack
of trust coming from the mother and feels it as a lack
of trust in *HIM* and is trying to remedy that in a
roundabout way. Maybe he is just testing to see if his
reaction to the ice cream will always be the same.
There are many reasons why he might not want to change
that routine just yet. Once the mother is more
accepting of the "why", then maybe the child might be
more open to discussing the possibility of exchanging
this routine for another.
Jessica R.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091