Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help/fears
Cameron Parham
I am in a strange place with this fear thing. On the one hand I can say that I really relate to the fascinating statement that I have heard, as follows: "the opposite of love is not really hate, but fear." I think many people, truly striving to be good people, will do things out of fear that they would never consider doing out of hate. I know much harm was done to me and many I know by well-meaning parents and teachers as we grew up. And I have seen my anxious parents frighten and intimidate my homeschooled children out of their own fears regarding the kids' futures. We all fear feeling 'negative' emotions (failure, grief, embarrassment, whatever) and will do much to avoid them, even trying to control things far outside our own real sphere of control. This often comes from our own history of hurts.
Having said that, I am frustrated with my own continued battle with this. After years of interest in unschooling with halfhearted attempts at it, I finally researched the idea much more thoroughly in February (that's an ongoing process of course) , presented it to my kids, and we started radically unschooling and deschooling as of March 1st. Last night my 13yo ds (the only one of the 3 interested in the theory, and the oldest) asked me how it was going...said he really wanted to continue. I said I thought we should too. But his own behaviors sure give me plenty of concern! What if, what if... a good many of the things I hoped wouldn't happen, did happen so far with him. What if they continue! Is it deschooling! Is this really good for him (he averages 10-12 hours per day of TV and consumed 8 soft drinks yesterday). What if my 'ex' tries to take custody of the kids because I am letting my dd read at her own pace (simple words at age 10). What if all this goes
wrong and it's all my fault!!! That will really hurt.
Dah-dah-dah!! Lesson from Star Wars (no kidding)! Episode 3 tells the tragic conclusion of the story of how the sweet child Anakin is changed into Darth Vader. He has had a lot of hurt and loss in his life. He has never really felt heard and validated. He is emotionally unable to tolerate discipline, delayed gratification, and the possibility of future loss. He forsees a tragedy concerning his (secret) wife, whom he can not bear to loose. He thinks he wants only to protect her, but in reality his own fear of experiencing loss of her causes him to choose evil...he chooses evil in the name of protecting his wife. In the name of good (overlying fear) he does wrong he would never once have chosen to do.
I absolutely believe that unschooling is best for our family. I don't beieve that I can Darth-Vader them into the future that I see as best for them (shudder!) But what if, what if, what if.... I don't have an answer, just a need to say it to someone. Thanks to anyone patient enough to read all this. Yes, I did notice that I worried about all that TV then used a lesson partially accrued from Star Wars...the irony is not lost on me, but doesn't seem to help much. Goodness only knows why.
----- Original Message ----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 6:11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help
Having said that, I am frustrated with my own continued battle with this. After years of interest in unschooling with halfhearted attempts at it, I finally researched the idea much more thoroughly in February (that's an ongoing process of course) , presented it to my kids, and we started radically unschooling and deschooling as of March 1st. Last night my 13yo ds (the only one of the 3 interested in the theory, and the oldest) asked me how it was going...said he really wanted to continue. I said I thought we should too. But his own behaviors sure give me plenty of concern! What if, what if... a good many of the things I hoped wouldn't happen, did happen so far with him. What if they continue! Is it deschooling! Is this really good for him (he averages 10-12 hours per day of TV and consumed 8 soft drinks yesterday). What if my 'ex' tries to take custody of the kids because I am letting my dd read at her own pace (simple words at age 10). What if all this goes
wrong and it's all my fault!!! That will really hurt.
Dah-dah-dah!! Lesson from Star Wars (no kidding)! Episode 3 tells the tragic conclusion of the story of how the sweet child Anakin is changed into Darth Vader. He has had a lot of hurt and loss in his life. He has never really felt heard and validated. He is emotionally unable to tolerate discipline, delayed gratification, and the possibility of future loss. He forsees a tragedy concerning his (secret) wife, whom he can not bear to loose. He thinks he wants only to protect her, but in reality his own fear of experiencing loss of her causes him to choose evil...he chooses evil in the name of protecting his wife. In the name of good (overlying fear) he does wrong he would never once have chosen to do.
I absolutely believe that unschooling is best for our family. I don't beieve that I can Darth-Vader them into the future that I see as best for them (shudder!) But what if, what if, what if.... I don't have an answer, just a need to say it to someone. Thanks to anyone patient enough to read all this. Yes, I did notice that I worried about all that TV then used a lesson partially accrued from Star Wars...the irony is not lost on me, but doesn't seem to help much. Goodness only knows why.
----- Original Message ----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 6:11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help
On Mar 23, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Twila Francis wrote:
> I get so scared that I won't "prepare" them for
> the world to come.
How did you prepare them to speak as well as they do now?
Living *today* prepares them for tomorrow. Living tomorrow prepares
them for the next day. One day at a time.
Rather than worrying about what they might need, fill their days with
things they enjoy or might enjoy right now. A rich environment
*today* will be a wealth to draw on when tomorrow comes.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
makes sense to me that your 13yo, who has lived through them all,
would need some time to trust that this was the "real thing" and that
in the mean time he is going to do his darnedest to fill up on every
possible thing that may be controlled if you, once again, change your
mind. Its been less than a month since you started deschooling, its
going to take a good bit longer than that to build some trust.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>What if, what if... a good many of the things I hoped wouldn'tYou said you've made several half-hearted attempts at unschooling. It
>happen, did happen so far with him. What if they continue! Is it
>deschooling!
makes sense to me that your 13yo, who has lived through them all,
would need some time to trust that this was the "real thing" and that
in the mean time he is going to do his darnedest to fill up on every
possible thing that may be controlled if you, once again, change your
mind. Its been less than a month since you started deschooling, its
going to take a good bit longer than that to build some trust.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...
We all fear feeling 'negative' emotions (failure,
grief, embarrassment, whatever) and will do much to avoid them, even
trying to
control things far outside our own real sphere of control.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe not *all* of us. <g>
I don't fear feeling negative emotions. They happen. It's all about how
I choose to deal with them.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Having said that, I am frustrated with my own continued battle with
this.
After years of interest in unschooling with halfhearted attempts at it,
I
finally researched the idea much more thoroughly in February (that's an
ongoing
process of course) , presented it to my kids, and we started radically
unschooling and deschooling as of March 1st.
-=-=-=-=-
It's not easy. We know that. It DOES get easier though!
-=-=-=-=-=-
Last night my 13yo ds (the only one
of the 3 interested in the theory, and the oldest) asked me how it was
going...said he really wanted to continue. I said I thought we should
too. But
his own behaviors sure give me plenty of concern! What if, what if...
a good
many of the things I hoped wouldn't happen, did happen so far with him.
What if
they continue! Is it deschooling! Is this really good for him (he
averages
10-12 hours per day of TV and consumed 8 soft drinks yesterday).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yes, it IS deschooling----but you might want to talk with him. If he
LIKES this lifestyle, this philosophy, maybe he'd be willing to work
WITH you to make you more comfortable with your own fears. The two
things you mentioned---TV and sodas---maybe he'd be willing to back off
on those two things a bit. Maybe make smoothies and fruit-sodas (sprite
with cranberry juice or something) instead of so many sodas. Maybe he'd
like to google soft drinks and see the nuritional value. TV---maybe
he's be willing to do something else with you instead. See whether
he'd be interested in reading Rue's book---it's really easy with a good
format for snippet reading. Or explore Sandra or Joyce's sites to
understand the philosophy more.
ASK for his help to get *you* through this tough period for you. They
are really helpful! Sometimes you just need to ask! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
What if my 'ex' tries to take custody of the kids because I am letting
my dd read at her
own pace (simple words at age 10).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Document what they *can* do. Blog what you do daily so that he can see
how amazing his kids are. Make a HUGE effort to include him in their
learning. Don't say what they *can't* do! Write about the fascinating
things they are accomplishing. He'll never miss what they aren't doing.
<g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
What if all this goes wrong and it's all my fault!!! That will really
hurt.
-=-=-=-=-
What if you were to send them to school? Would you get to blame the
schools like all the other parents?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dah-dah-dah!! Lesson from Star Wars (no kidding)! Episode 3 tells
the
tragic conclusion of the story of how the sweet child Anakin is changed
into
Darth Vader. He has had a lot of hurt and loss in his life. He has
never
really felt heard and validated. He is emotionally unable to tolerate
discipline, delayed gratification, and the possibility of future loss.
He
forsees a tragedy concerning his (secret) wife, whom he can not bear to
loose.
He thinks he wants only to protect her, but in reality his own fear of
experiencing loss of her causes him to choose evil...he chooses evil in
the name
of protecting his wife. In the name of good (overlying fear) he does
wrong he
would never once have chosen to do.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
It's called Dramatic Irony and is a wonderful literary device. Don't
work in real life. <bwg>
What if Anakin had been loved and nurtured? What if he'd been respected
and trusted?
We do the absolute best we can with what information we have now. How
do YOU think children learn? What tools can you give them?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I absolutely believe that unschooling is best for our family. I
don't
beieve that I can Darth-Vader them into the future that I see as best
for them
(shudder!) But what if, what if, what if....
-=-=-=-=-=-
No, but you can give them the best childhood possible NOW.
Honestly, Cameron---there's no guarantee you or they will be here
tomorrow. Our unschooling community just lost the THIRD child to death.
Jossilyn Adams died this month. I can't tell you how well that puts
things into perspective for me.
What if, what if,...what if your child were to die next week?
Do the absolute best you can do TODAY!
-=-=-==-=-
I don't have an answer, just a need to say it to someone.
-=-=-=-=-
We understand. We've been there.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, I did notice that I worried about all that TV then used a lesson
partially accrued
from Star Wars...the irony is not lost on me, but doesn't seem to help
much.
Goodness only knows why.
-=-=-=-=-
Well, I *was* going to point that out. <g>
TV's a great invention! See it as such! It's NOT evil or a waste of
time. Embrace it! <g>
If you can come to the conference, it would help sooo much! You could
see dozens and dozens of teens and young adults who have been unlimited
in their learning. They're amazing!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: acsp2205@...
We all fear feeling 'negative' emotions (failure,
grief, embarrassment, whatever) and will do much to avoid them, even
trying to
control things far outside our own real sphere of control.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe not *all* of us. <g>
I don't fear feeling negative emotions. They happen. It's all about how
I choose to deal with them.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Having said that, I am frustrated with my own continued battle with
this.
After years of interest in unschooling with halfhearted attempts at it,
I
finally researched the idea much more thoroughly in February (that's an
ongoing
process of course) , presented it to my kids, and we started radically
unschooling and deschooling as of March 1st.
-=-=-=-=-
It's not easy. We know that. It DOES get easier though!
-=-=-=-=-=-
Last night my 13yo ds (the only one
of the 3 interested in the theory, and the oldest) asked me how it was
going...said he really wanted to continue. I said I thought we should
too. But
his own behaviors sure give me plenty of concern! What if, what if...
a good
many of the things I hoped wouldn't happen, did happen so far with him.
What if
they continue! Is it deschooling! Is this really good for him (he
averages
10-12 hours per day of TV and consumed 8 soft drinks yesterday).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yes, it IS deschooling----but you might want to talk with him. If he
LIKES this lifestyle, this philosophy, maybe he'd be willing to work
WITH you to make you more comfortable with your own fears. The two
things you mentioned---TV and sodas---maybe he'd be willing to back off
on those two things a bit. Maybe make smoothies and fruit-sodas (sprite
with cranberry juice or something) instead of so many sodas. Maybe he'd
like to google soft drinks and see the nuritional value. TV---maybe
he's be willing to do something else with you instead. See whether
he'd be interested in reading Rue's book---it's really easy with a good
format for snippet reading. Or explore Sandra or Joyce's sites to
understand the philosophy more.
ASK for his help to get *you* through this tough period for you. They
are really helpful! Sometimes you just need to ask! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
What if my 'ex' tries to take custody of the kids because I am letting
my dd read at her
own pace (simple words at age 10).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Document what they *can* do. Blog what you do daily so that he can see
how amazing his kids are. Make a HUGE effort to include him in their
learning. Don't say what they *can't* do! Write about the fascinating
things they are accomplishing. He'll never miss what they aren't doing.
<g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
What if all this goes wrong and it's all my fault!!! That will really
hurt.
-=-=-=-=-
What if you were to send them to school? Would you get to blame the
schools like all the other parents?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dah-dah-dah!! Lesson from Star Wars (no kidding)! Episode 3 tells
the
tragic conclusion of the story of how the sweet child Anakin is changed
into
Darth Vader. He has had a lot of hurt and loss in his life. He has
never
really felt heard and validated. He is emotionally unable to tolerate
discipline, delayed gratification, and the possibility of future loss.
He
forsees a tragedy concerning his (secret) wife, whom he can not bear to
loose.
He thinks he wants only to protect her, but in reality his own fear of
experiencing loss of her causes him to choose evil...he chooses evil in
the name
of protecting his wife. In the name of good (overlying fear) he does
wrong he
would never once have chosen to do.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
It's called Dramatic Irony and is a wonderful literary device. Don't
work in real life. <bwg>
What if Anakin had been loved and nurtured? What if he'd been respected
and trusted?
We do the absolute best we can with what information we have now. How
do YOU think children learn? What tools can you give them?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I absolutely believe that unschooling is best for our family. I
don't
beieve that I can Darth-Vader them into the future that I see as best
for them
(shudder!) But what if, what if, what if....
-=-=-=-=-=-
No, but you can give them the best childhood possible NOW.
Honestly, Cameron---there's no guarantee you or they will be here
tomorrow. Our unschooling community just lost the THIRD child to death.
Jossilyn Adams died this month. I can't tell you how well that puts
things into perspective for me.
What if, what if,...what if your child were to die next week?
Do the absolute best you can do TODAY!
-=-=-==-=-
I don't have an answer, just a need to say it to someone.
-=-=-=-=-
We understand. We've been there.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, I did notice that I worried about all that TV then used a lesson
partially accrued
from Star Wars...the irony is not lost on me, but doesn't seem to help
much.
Goodness only knows why.
-=-=-=-=-
Well, I *was* going to point that out. <g>
TV's a great invention! See it as such! It's NOT evil or a waste of
time. Embrace it! <g>
If you can come to the conference, it would help sooo much! You could
see dozens and dozens of teens and young adults who have been unlimited
in their learning. They're amazing!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[email protected]
This was sent to me offlist, but I figured it would be good for
everyone to weigh in on. The questions are certainly not unique to this
mom alone!
-----Original Message----
I am another one that is scared to death of failing.
I mean my husband is against the unschooling. We just
talked about it today. He said "How do we teach them
balance? How do we teach them that sometimes in this
world we have to do things we don't like?"
-=-=-=--=
I do things I don't like very occasionally. Not often. If I feel I
must, I try to make them as palatable as I can. Usually it's not that
hard.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I couldn't answer him. I mean he is in a job that he is away
from us way too much. He hates it.
-=-=-=-=-
He needs a new job. I'm not joking.
So what he's saying is that he expects your kids to be miserable in
their work lives---just like he is. Right?
My goal is that my kids find something they LOVE to do and make $$$
doing what they love. That's what SMART people do! They get up every
morning DELIGHTED to be doing what they love.
-=-=-=-=-=-
We have to prepare them for the world. The world isn't fair...
-=-=-=-=-
So we break their fingers NOW to prepare them for possibly breaking
their legs in the future?
My HOME is a fair as I can possibly make it. I want my children to KNOW
that. That HERE they can find fairness and kindness and generosity and
respect and patience and trust IN ABUNDANCE. We *know* that the world
isn't fair. Isn't it nice to know that there's somewhere we know we can
always find it? At home?
-=-=-=-=-=-
they don'tget to sleep as much as they won't when they grow up.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=-
They don't get to watch as much t.v. as they want.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=
They don't get to do just the things that are fun to them.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
They may not like math but they need to know how to do it.
-=-=-=-
How would you stop them from learning math?
I know! Make them! Schools do that every day. What has that produced? A
country FULL of mathphobics!
-=-=-=-=-
How are they going to "learn" that if we don't help them?
-=-=-=-=-
Are you considering NOT helping them? That's not unschooling. Children
DO need help. They're strangers here. You have more experience. Share
that. Don't force them though. They'll shut down---just like in school!
Seriously.
They learn because they're hardwired to learn. They are learning
machines. Humans weren't given sharp teeth or claws---or great
camouflage or amazing speed or the ability to jump tall buildings in a
single bound. We were given the incredible ability to LEARN---and LEARN
WELL!
If you don't think it comes naturally, why do you think we aren't still
living in caves? We were built to learn! I mean---we've been to the
MOON!
-=-=-=-=-
I want them to be prepared for
the world but I want them to actually learn things
rather than just memorize it and forget it. Which is
what I did in school. I don't know where the balance
is either. I don't know how to answer my husband. I
just felt like I needed to talk to you. You had so
many wonderful thoughts and helped me a lot.
-=-=-=-
Thanks---but mostly that's because I listened to so many wonderful
unschooling moms before me. I listened to my heart. I listened to my
children. I watched them learn so much so quickly. They do it so
naturally. They are truly amazing to me.
Do you not see that wonder in your children? Are they not curious,
creative explorers of their world? They are BORN that way! Fantastic
learning creatures!
-=-=-=-=-=-
If I may ask...you said "Our unschooling community
just lost the THIRD child to death. Jossilyn Adams
died this month." What happened to them? That is
scary.
-=-=-=-=-
Sam Wilkinson (8) died five years ago after falling through the ice
while ice skating in Maryland. Hannah Jenner (9.5) died of cancer last
February in South Dakota. Jossilyn Adams (9) died of cancer this month
in Maine. Their moms are all glad they had the time to love and honor
these children through unschooling. They actually got to spend their
lives being free and home with their families. What a huge gift their
parents gave them!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I love my children very much.
-=-=-=-
I know you do. That's why it's so important to see them as they are NOW
---and to see them as the wonderful people they are NOW. Parents spend
so much time worrying about who/what their children will become one day
that they totally lose out on who/what their children are TODAY. There
is NO guarantee that they will be here tomorrow. Embrace today fully
and completely. The shortest path to a happy adulthood is a happy
childhood. YOU have the ability to make them happy children.
-=-=-=-=-
Thanks so much again for the things that you wrote.
It really helped.
-=-=-=-=-
If it can make a difference in one child's life!
But I know it's made a difference in many children's lives. You don't
get a second chance to do it right with your children's childhoods.
It's a one time shot. Seriously---they have a LIFETIME to learn math
facts and to read Shakespeare and to to go to Nepal. Not that you
shouldn't expose them to as much as you can. But making them learn
those things because someone thinks it's necessary---pshaw! They'll
decide when it's important. And then it'll BE important! They won't be
able to help but learn it!
I've not NEARLY done/learned/seen/experienced everything I want to! I
have the rest of my lifetime too. It's a good thing I didn't think all
my learning was done at 18 or 22---hell, I hadn't even *started*! <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
everyone to weigh in on. The questions are certainly not unique to this
mom alone!
-----Original Message----
I am another one that is scared to death of failing.
I mean my husband is against the unschooling. We just
talked about it today. He said "How do we teach them
balance? How do we teach them that sometimes in this
world we have to do things we don't like?"
-=-=-=--=
I do things I don't like very occasionally. Not often. If I feel I
must, I try to make them as palatable as I can. Usually it's not that
hard.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I couldn't answer him. I mean he is in a job that he is away
from us way too much. He hates it.
-=-=-=-=-
He needs a new job. I'm not joking.
So what he's saying is that he expects your kids to be miserable in
their work lives---just like he is. Right?
My goal is that my kids find something they LOVE to do and make $$$
doing what they love. That's what SMART people do! They get up every
morning DELIGHTED to be doing what they love.
-=-=-=-=-=-
We have to prepare them for the world. The world isn't fair...
-=-=-=-=-
So we break their fingers NOW to prepare them for possibly breaking
their legs in the future?
My HOME is a fair as I can possibly make it. I want my children to KNOW
that. That HERE they can find fairness and kindness and generosity and
respect and patience and trust IN ABUNDANCE. We *know* that the world
isn't fair. Isn't it nice to know that there's somewhere we know we can
always find it? At home?
-=-=-=-=-=-
they don'tget to sleep as much as they won't when they grow up.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=-
They don't get to watch as much t.v. as they want.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=
They don't get to do just the things that are fun to them.
-=-=-=-
I do.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
They may not like math but they need to know how to do it.
-=-=-=-
How would you stop them from learning math?
I know! Make them! Schools do that every day. What has that produced? A
country FULL of mathphobics!
-=-=-=-=-
How are they going to "learn" that if we don't help them?
-=-=-=-=-
Are you considering NOT helping them? That's not unschooling. Children
DO need help. They're strangers here. You have more experience. Share
that. Don't force them though. They'll shut down---just like in school!
Seriously.
They learn because they're hardwired to learn. They are learning
machines. Humans weren't given sharp teeth or claws---or great
camouflage or amazing speed or the ability to jump tall buildings in a
single bound. We were given the incredible ability to LEARN---and LEARN
WELL!
If you don't think it comes naturally, why do you think we aren't still
living in caves? We were built to learn! I mean---we've been to the
MOON!
-=-=-=-=-
I want them to be prepared for
the world but I want them to actually learn things
rather than just memorize it and forget it. Which is
what I did in school. I don't know where the balance
is either. I don't know how to answer my husband. I
just felt like I needed to talk to you. You had so
many wonderful thoughts and helped me a lot.
-=-=-=-
Thanks---but mostly that's because I listened to so many wonderful
unschooling moms before me. I listened to my heart. I listened to my
children. I watched them learn so much so quickly. They do it so
naturally. They are truly amazing to me.
Do you not see that wonder in your children? Are they not curious,
creative explorers of their world? They are BORN that way! Fantastic
learning creatures!
-=-=-=-=-=-
If I may ask...you said "Our unschooling community
just lost the THIRD child to death. Jossilyn Adams
died this month." What happened to them? That is
scary.
-=-=-=-=-
Sam Wilkinson (8) died five years ago after falling through the ice
while ice skating in Maryland. Hannah Jenner (9.5) died of cancer last
February in South Dakota. Jossilyn Adams (9) died of cancer this month
in Maine. Their moms are all glad they had the time to love and honor
these children through unschooling. They actually got to spend their
lives being free and home with their families. What a huge gift their
parents gave them!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I love my children very much.
-=-=-=-
I know you do. That's why it's so important to see them as they are NOW
---and to see them as the wonderful people they are NOW. Parents spend
so much time worrying about who/what their children will become one day
that they totally lose out on who/what their children are TODAY. There
is NO guarantee that they will be here tomorrow. Embrace today fully
and completely. The shortest path to a happy adulthood is a happy
childhood. YOU have the ability to make them happy children.
-=-=-=-=-
Thanks so much again for the things that you wrote.
It really helped.
-=-=-=-=-
If it can make a difference in one child's life!
But I know it's made a difference in many children's lives. You don't
get a second chance to do it right with your children's childhoods.
It's a one time shot. Seriously---they have a LIFETIME to learn math
facts and to read Shakespeare and to to go to Nepal. Not that you
shouldn't expose them to as much as you can. But making them learn
those things because someone thinks it's necessary---pshaw! They'll
decide when it's important. And then it'll BE important! They won't be
able to help but learn it!
I've not NEARLY done/learned/seen/experienced everything I want to! I
have the rest of my lifetime too. It's a good thing I didn't think all
my learning was done at 18 or 22---hell, I hadn't even *started*! <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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Katharine Wise
>they don'tget to sleep as much as they won't when they grow up.I 'm assuming this was supposed to be "as much as they want".
They only adults I can imagine not having the choice to sleep as much as they want are those with a baby or still-night-waking young child plus older children who need them during the day. (I'll agree that plenty of adults don't make that choice and prioritize sleep, but unless they need to work double shifts or something, it is a choice.) And in that case, it's true in a way that the mom may not get as much sleep as she wants (or needs), but in another way it's simply an example of how we make choices weighing our multiple wants. A mom with a baby may not be getting as much sleep as she wants, but hopefully she also *wanted* to have the baby (even if it was unplanned).
Yes, it's true sometimes we have to do tasks we don't care for. But, as adults we have choices that we don't always grant our kids. We wash the dishes because we want clean dishes -- we don't technically have to. And we can choose our attitude toward that task -- are we going to grumble because we "have" to wash so many dishes, or are we going to be grateful because we are fortunate to have dishes to wash, plenty of food to eat, and wonderful family and friends to eat with? The thing is, truthfully for us it's a choice -- both to do the task and to choose our attitude about it. But if we *make* our kids do X,Y, or Z, so they'll learn they can't always have everything they way they want, then they don't have the first choice. And telling them to suck it up and be grateful they have parents who love them enough to make them do it, or they're lucky they have dishes to wash, is... I don't know, but not good!
My 2 cents,
Katharine
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
Ray's real life from what I need to do/say/report to his mom to
placate her wrt his "education". The details of my life are pretty
different from yours, but I think that's an important strategy, and
maybe one to share with your dd, too. Kelly suggested a blog -
that's my main way of communicating about Ray's "education".
Here's a link to a post back in Dec where I talk about multiple
intelligences and how I think those ideas might apply to Ray:
http://rayanschool.blogspot.com/2006/12/multiple-intelligences.html
Maybe something like that would help you shift the focus of the
discussion away from "she can't read" to something less
antagonistic.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>What if my 'ex' tries to take custody of the kids because I amSomething I try hard to do with Ray is to separate, in my mind,
>letting my dd read at her own pace (simple words at age 10).
Ray's real life from what I need to do/say/report to his mom to
placate her wrt his "education". The details of my life are pretty
different from yours, but I think that's an important strategy, and
maybe one to share with your dd, too. Kelly suggested a blog -
that's my main way of communicating about Ray's "education".
Here's a link to a post back in Dec where I talk about multiple
intelligences and how I think those ideas might apply to Ray:
http://rayanschool.blogspot.com/2006/12/multiple-intelligences.html
Maybe something like that would help you shift the focus of the
discussion away from "she can't read" to something less
antagonistic.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Ren Allen
~~Yes, it's true sometimes we have to do tasks we don't care for. But,
as adults we have choices that we don't always grant our kids. We wash
the dishes because we want clean dishes -- we don't technically have to.~~
Exactly!
My dh was grumbling a bit about all the clean laundry laying on our
couch the other day. I smiled and said "isn't it GREAT honey!! We have
such wealth that we have all these clothes to take care of and all
this laundry means our children are healthy and happy and right here
with us!"
He rolled his eyes of course...it's his turn next time I grumble.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
as adults we have choices that we don't always grant our kids. We wash
the dishes because we want clean dishes -- we don't technically have to.~~
Exactly!
My dh was grumbling a bit about all the clean laundry laying on our
couch the other day. I smiled and said "isn't it GREAT honey!! We have
such wealth that we have all these clothes to take care of and all
this laundry means our children are healthy and happy and right here
with us!"
He rolled his eyes of course...it's his turn next time I grumble.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Katharine Wise
>I am in a strange place with this fear thing. On the one hand I can say that I >really relate to the fascinating statement that I have heard, as follows: "the >opposite of love is not really hate, but fear."Madeleine L'Engle again? :-)
>I think many people, truly striving to be good people, will do things out of fear >that they would never consider doing out of hate.Your post really resonated with me, Cameron. Just that morning, at church, trying calmly to calm down a rapidly spiraling kicking child, I exploded at another mom who tried to intervene (loud voice from across the room, "Do not kick your mother like that!"). I have *never* lost my temper like that before in my life. Reflecting afterward, I realized I was reacting out of fear. I know she had the best intentions, but I also knew that that kind of reaction (anything negative or punitive) just escalates my son's melt-down. I was afraid she was going to come and physically intervene and the whole scene would just get worse than it all ready was -- and in church. Of course, my screaming, "So-and-so, let me handle this please!!!" didn't exactly make it better either. I meant to say it, but not to explode it. I did go to her house and apologize later.
I know a lot of my worst parenting moments are really about fear. My child locks himself in the bedroom refusing to go someplace -- not really a great tragedy in and of itself, but... I quickly move from there to envisioning my child, grown, hiding in a lab avoiding contact with fellow humans, never marrying, no friends. Fear. (By the way, several of my closest friends are or were lab scientists and are also very social -- I'm not stereotyping scientists!) Or, there was the period when I was afraid my oldest, going through an aggressive stage, would grow up to be the latest Charles Manson. (Eventually I remembered that Manson was bounced from foster home to foster home and did not have a loving, involved mother at all.) Fortunately, my fears usually result in my feeling discouraged and down, not in explosions like the one in church.
Katharine
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[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: katharinewise@...
The thing is, truthfully for us it's a choice -- both to do the task
and
to choose our attitude about it. But if we *make* our kids do X,Y, or
Z, so
they'll learn they can't always have everything they way they want,
then they
don't have the first choice. And telling them to suck it up and be
grateful
they have parents who love them enough to make them do it, or they're
lucky they
have dishes to wash, is... I don't know, but not good!
-=-=-==-=-
It's detrimental to the relationship between you and your child.
Choice is HUGE. I would rather have no help at all than resentful
assistance. By not requiring these things from my boys, what I get is
happier and and progressively more joyful help. And they're CHOOSING to
help me---not doing it because I said so. But I modelled that for them.
"Mom, will you...?" "Mom, could you...?" "Mom, I'm having problems
with..." are followed by "Yes, of course." "Uh huh---Right away!" "You
bet---as soon as I'm finished here!"
When Ben has days off, he's floored by how many requests I get every
hour. It's a little exhausting. I admit that. But I've seen the results
I got with Cam. A little more work *now* results in more harmony later.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: katharinewise@...
The thing is, truthfully for us it's a choice -- both to do the task
and
to choose our attitude about it. But if we *make* our kids do X,Y, or
Z, so
they'll learn they can't always have everything they way they want,
then they
don't have the first choice. And telling them to suck it up and be
grateful
they have parents who love them enough to make them do it, or they're
lucky they
have dishes to wash, is... I don't know, but not good!
-=-=-==-=-
It's detrimental to the relationship between you and your child.
Choice is HUGE. I would rather have no help at all than resentful
assistance. By not requiring these things from my boys, what I get is
happier and and progressively more joyful help. And they're CHOOSING to
help me---not doing it because I said so. But I modelled that for them.
"Mom, will you...?" "Mom, could you...?" "Mom, I'm having problems
with..." are followed by "Yes, of course." "Uh huh---Right away!" "You
bet---as soon as I'm finished here!"
When Ben has days off, he's floored by how many requests I get every
hour. It's a little exhausting. I admit that. But I've seen the results
I got with Cam. A little more work *now* results in more harmony later.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Leslie Kowalski
These posts also resonated with me (and as one of the scientists that
Katharine was referring to, I just have to say how offended I am!
hmphhhh! : ) Although, I did meet many of those lab-types that you
referred to in graduate school!).
I've realized how often I parent from fear. I find myself projecting
into the future. Some murky haze of Charles Manson-ish type fears
(as Katharine wrote in her post) that makes no sense if I'm able to
step back. I read a book called "Living Joyfully with Children"
awhile back that really spoke to this idea of fear. I should re-read
it!
I also recently read an amazing book called "Born on a Blue Day",
written by a man who describes himself as Asperger's/savant. It is a
very detailed description of his childhood, and the way his brain
works. He literally spent his first 15 years in his room, and found
a way to forge the best life for himself now. My sense in reading
the book is that his parents worried about him (as much as he could
really understand their worry), but supported and loved him. I have
to remember this story, when I worry about my kids, who deal with
sooooo much less than he did. Then, I can really know that I need to
forget about all of the other stuff that worries my brain
(constantly!) and just love them. (I still have trouble letting go
of stuff, but I'm working on it!)
Leslie (in NJ)
============
Your post really resonated with me, Cameron. Just that morning, at
church, trying calmly to calm down a rapidly spiraling kicking child,
I exploded at another mom who tried to intervene (loud voice from
across the room, "Do not kick your mother like that!"). I have
*never* lost my temper like that before in my life. Reflecting
afterward, I realized I was reacting out of fear. I know she had the
best intentions, but I also knew that that kind of reaction (anything
negative or punitive) just escalates my son's melt-down. I was afraid
she was going to come and physically intervene and the whole scene
would just get worse than it all ready was -- and in church. Of
course, my screaming, "So-and-so, let me handle this please!!!"
didn't exactly make it better either. I meant to say it, but not to
explode it. I did go to her house and apologize later.
I know a lot of my worst parenting moments are really about fear. My
child locks himself in the bedroom refusing to go someplace -- not
really a great tragedy in and of itself, but... I quickly move from
there to envisioning my child, grown, hiding in a lab avoiding
contact with fellow humans, never marrying, no friends. Fear. (By the
way, several of my closest friends are or were lab scientists and are
also very social -- I'm not stereotyping scientists!) Or, there was
the period when I was afraid my oldest, going through an aggressive
stage, would grow up to be the latest Charles Manson. (Eventually I
remembered that Manson was bounced from foster home to foster home
and did not have a loving, involved mother at all.) Fortunately, my
fears usually result in my feeling discouraged and down, not in
explosions like the one in church.
Katharine
=============
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine was referring to, I just have to say how offended I am!
hmphhhh! : ) Although, I did meet many of those lab-types that you
referred to in graduate school!).
I've realized how often I parent from fear. I find myself projecting
into the future. Some murky haze of Charles Manson-ish type fears
(as Katharine wrote in her post) that makes no sense if I'm able to
step back. I read a book called "Living Joyfully with Children"
awhile back that really spoke to this idea of fear. I should re-read
it!
I also recently read an amazing book called "Born on a Blue Day",
written by a man who describes himself as Asperger's/savant. It is a
very detailed description of his childhood, and the way his brain
works. He literally spent his first 15 years in his room, and found
a way to forge the best life for himself now. My sense in reading
the book is that his parents worried about him (as much as he could
really understand their worry), but supported and loved him. I have
to remember this story, when I worry about my kids, who deal with
sooooo much less than he did. Then, I can really know that I need to
forget about all of the other stuff that worries my brain
(constantly!) and just love them. (I still have trouble letting go
of stuff, but I'm working on it!)
Leslie (in NJ)
============
>I think many people, truly striving to be good people, will dothings out of fear >that they would never consider doing out of hate.
Your post really resonated with me, Cameron. Just that morning, at
church, trying calmly to calm down a rapidly spiraling kicking child,
I exploded at another mom who tried to intervene (loud voice from
across the room, "Do not kick your mother like that!"). I have
*never* lost my temper like that before in my life. Reflecting
afterward, I realized I was reacting out of fear. I know she had the
best intentions, but I also knew that that kind of reaction (anything
negative or punitive) just escalates my son's melt-down. I was afraid
she was going to come and physically intervene and the whole scene
would just get worse than it all ready was -- and in church. Of
course, my screaming, "So-and-so, let me handle this please!!!"
didn't exactly make it better either. I meant to say it, but not to
explode it. I did go to her house and apologize later.
I know a lot of my worst parenting moments are really about fear. My
child locks himself in the bedroom refusing to go someplace -- not
really a great tragedy in and of itself, but... I quickly move from
there to envisioning my child, grown, hiding in a lab avoiding
contact with fellow humans, never marrying, no friends. Fear. (By the
way, several of my closest friends are or were lab scientists and are
also very social -- I'm not stereotyping scientists!) Or, there was
the period when I was afraid my oldest, going through an aggressive
stage, would grow up to be the latest Charles Manson. (Eventually I
remembered that Manson was bounced from foster home to foster home
and did not have a loving, involved mother at all.) Fortunately, my
fears usually result in my feeling discouraged and down, not in
explosions like the one in church.
Katharine
=============
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]