seccotine_ch

and I am totally depressed by this idea.

I'm Helen, mother of three (ds 6yo, dd 4 yo and dd 1 yo), living in
Geneva, Switzerland. Last year, I have decided to take Sylvain away
from school and my daughters away from daycare. I was quite worried
but really enthusiastic by this project.

6 months later, I must say that it's been awfully difficult. I've
been very lonely all the time - there are no other unschooled kids
around here, so no other unschooling families. Every people I've been
talking to didn't understand what I was doing and were highly
critical about my choices. I know I shouldn't care, and I really
thought I wouldn't, but in fact, ignoring all these negative comments
took a lot from me.

Apart from feeling very lonely, there was also the problem of being
really exhausted. My little daughter doesn't sleep much and some
days, it is difficult to simply staying awake. In these conditions,
of course, I haven't probably been the best of unschooling moms.

I had the feeling, though, despite all the difficulties of the
situation, that we really had good times and fun.

Lately (it began 2 weeks ago), I don't know why, maybe because of the
exams I had to pass at the University (I'm also a student), I went
through something like a little breakdown. I felt really tired and
without any energy. I love my kids, they are nice, and smart, and
funny and kind - that's not the problem. The problem is with me. Too
tired, not good enough. I really have a problem with all the house
cleaning, that I don't like doing and that must be done all the time -
with absolutely no visual result. As soon as you're over with one
corner, you turn away and it is as if some storm has passed on the
rest of the house (and believe me, I'm not a cleaning maniac). The
thing is that we live in a very small place, so we have to clean and
tidy up if we want to have space to do the fun things. Sometimes, I
have the feeling of being trapped in a Greek punishment, when you
have to push this stone up the mountain just to see it roll down
again ...

OK, I'm sorry of complaining so much. It is just that I am feeling so
depressed. I really liked unschooling my kids - but I felt, in the
same time, that it took a lot out of me and now, it is as if I was
empty. I don't remember the English term for that ... worn out ?

So my kid, today, said to me that he wanted to go back to school, so
that I would have time to tidy up the appartment ! He also said that
he was missing his school friends, which I understand really well, as
we don't see many people now (everybody seems to have a really busy
life and we have very little success in inviting his friends).

I am very sad. I really thought that this experience would be great,
that we all would appreciate it and it seems that it didn't go right.

I don't know what to do. I would love to put things right again, so
that we would stay together and avoid school, but I don't think that
I am good/strong enough for staying all day, all week, with three
kids full of life and ideas and energy.

If you have any piece of advice, any word of comfort, any encouraging
word for me, don't hesitate :)

Thanks in advance
Helen (and, once again, sorry for my English)

Cameron Parham

Helen, your English is excellent. I am a single mom homeschooling, transitioning to unschooling. I am exhausted much of the time with work, housework, kids....I know how it is to have great creative ideas but not one cleared-off surface (including a floor) left, and you can't find the materials, and I'm so tired....I feel for you! I have more commiseration than advice. I am aware that unschooling in Europe is less common and so you'll have a hard time getting support and there is no question that constant criticism is very wearing. My heart just aches for your statement "I am not good enough." I will leave it to those more experienced to offer you advice; suffice it to say from my end that I am deeply sympathetic! I think I have cycled through those times an average of every 4 to 6 months since beginning to homeschool; in fact I am hoping that radical unschooling will help stop those cycles. I suspect this is a time that you can weather with some support. Are you taking
any time for yourself? Cameron


----- Original Message ----
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:45:07 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] He wants to go back to school

and I am totally depressed by this idea.

I'm Helen, mother of three (ds 6yo, dd 4 yo and dd 1 yo), living in
Geneva, Switzerland. Last year, I have decided to take Sylvain away
from school and my daughters away from daycare. I was quite worried
but really enthusiastic by this project.

6 months later, I must say that it's been awfully difficult. I've
been very lonely all the time - there are no other unschooled kids
around here, so no other unschooling families. Every people I've been
talking to didn't understand what I was doing and were highly
critical about my choices. I know I shouldn't care, and I really
thought I wouldn't, but in fact, ignoring all these negative comments
took a lot from me.

Apart from feeling very lonely, there was also the problem of being
really exhausted. My little daughter doesn't sleep much and some
days, it is difficult to simply staying awake. In these conditions,
of course, I haven't probably been the best of unschooling moms.

I had the feeling, though, despite all the difficulties of the
situation, that we really had good times and fun.

Lately (it began 2 weeks ago), I don't know why, maybe because of the
exams I had to pass at the University (I'm also a student), I went
through something like a little breakdown. I felt really tired and
without any energy. I love my kids, they are nice, and smart, and
funny and kind - that's not the problem. The problem is with me. Too
tired, not good enough. I really have a problem with all the house
cleaning, that I don't like doing and that must be done all the time -
with absolutely no visual result. As soon as you're over with one
corner, you turn away and it is as if some storm has passed on the
rest of the house (and believe me, I'm not a cleaning maniac). The
thing is that we live in a very small place, so we have to clean and
tidy up if we want to have space to do the fun things. Sometimes, I
have the feeling of being trapped in a Greek punishment, when you
have to push this stone up the mountain just to see it roll down
again ...

OK, I'm sorry of complaining so much. It is just that I am feeling so
depressed. I really liked unschooling my kids - but I felt, in the
same time, that it took a lot out of me and now, it is as if I was
empty. I don't remember the English term for that ... worn out ?

So my kid, today, said to me that he wanted to go back to school, so
that I would have time to tidy up the appartment ! He also said that
he was missing his school friends, which I understand really well, as
we don't see many people now (everybody seems to have a really busy
life and we have very little success in inviting his friends).

I am very sad. I really thought that this experience would be great,
that we all would appreciate it and it seems that it didn't go right.

I don't know what to do. I would love to put things right again, so
that we would stay together and avoid school, but I don't think that
I am good/strong enough for staying all day, all week, with three
kids full of life and ideas and energy.

If you have any piece of advice, any word of comfort, any encouraging
word for me, don't hesitate :)

Thanks in advance
Helen (and, once again, sorry for my English)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Krisula Moyer

Helen, I enjoyed reading your post. I don't know if this will help you but
I had the idea that your children are so young that maybe you could reach
out to gather your own group of friends who have pre-school aged children.
Perhaps all the little ones are already in preschools where you live but
even so, you could advertise for other Attachment Parenting families to get
together for play. Perhaps there is already a group like this. Regular
contact with other parents and children might go far to ameliorate the
feelings of isolation and loneliness you are experiencing.

As for ds asking to go back to school "so you will have more time to clean"
What a sweet boy to want to help you this way. You must find a way to
express to him how much you appreciate his gesture and to somehow stop
sending him the message of cleaning up being a hardship on you. He has
taken it personally because he loves you I think.

If cleaning up is taking too much of your energy and time and you aren't
getting much to show for it (as you say) I have a small suggestion. This
helped me a lot. Try to keep the necessary tasks contained by giving them a
time limit. I usually say I will clean up for 15 minutes and then stop and
put away my cleaning stuff. Even if the job isn't done I can do another
15min later. Some work gets done, and even if it's not really clean, it
gets better over time because those 15 minute jags add up. I don't feel as
annoyed somehow and the kids are more pleased to help me sometimes because
they see I am doing it happily and we'll be done in just a few minutes. No
matter what you do to change your routine at home make sure you move toward
joy and away from "have to" The feeling of drudgery is hard on you but even
harder for the children to see. They may think they are a burden to you
because of all the hard work. They need to feel instead how much joy they
bring you each day.

One more word. Spring is coming. Try to get outside with your children
every day. Being inside so much all winter must be hard with little ones.
Take every opportunity to get out with them.

Blessings,
Krisula




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

seccotine_ch

Krisula and Cameron, thank you for your answers ...

I really have trouble finding ways to "recharge my batteries" (how do
you say that in English ?). Before having kids at home, I used to do
that by having time for me (i.e. alone, without any noise or movement
around me), but this is obviously no more an option ...

I would like to meet other parents who won't be critical about my
choices ... It is so helpful ! Here, I can't say anything, because I
know that the answers would be (as I already hear) : "your kid NEEDS
to go to school, he NEEDS to have a world of his own, you CAN'T
deprive him from that" (your girl HAS to sleep in her room, you
should stop breastfeeding her, etc). The thing is that I don't know
where these supportive parents are hiding ! I've been thinking on
initiating a group here, but I don't really know how to begin, how to
make myself known, etc.

Yes, my boy is really sweet :), that's why it is so heartbreaking
when I feel that he isn't well. I really appreciate your advice about
housecleaning and not making it so difficult to bear for everybody.

I guess that cleaning 15 mn then doing something else is a very good
idea (I have tried to do like that today and it's working great !)

Sorry, I can't focus anymore, they want me to play with them ! I'll
come back later.

Many thanks. You can't imagine how much I (need and) appreciate your
support.

Helen

--- In [email protected], "Krisula Moyer"
<krisula@...> wrote:
>
> Helen, I enjoyed reading your post. I don't know if this will help
you but
> I had the idea that your children are so young that maybe you could
reach
> out to gather your own group of friends who have pre-school aged
children.
> Perhaps all the little ones are already in preschools where you
live but
> even so, you could advertise for other Attachment Parenting
families to get
> together for play. Perhaps there is already a group like this.
Regular
> contact with other parents and children might go far to ameliorate
the
> feelings of isolation and loneliness you are experiencing.
>
> As for ds asking to go back to school "so you will have more time
to clean"
> What a sweet boy to want to help you this way. You must find a
way to
> express to him how much you appreciate his gesture and to somehow
stop
> sending him the message of cleaning up being a hardship on you. He
has
> taken it personally because he loves you I think.
>
> If cleaning up is taking too much of your energy and time and you
aren't
> getting much to show for it (as you say) I have a small
suggestion. This
> helped me a lot. Try to keep the necessary tasks contained by
giving them a
> time limit. I usually say I will clean up for 15 minutes and then
stop and
> put away my cleaning stuff. Even if the job isn't done I can do
another
> 15min later. Some work gets done, and even if it's not really
clean, it
> gets better over time because those 15 minute jags add up. I don't
feel as
> annoyed somehow and the kids are more pleased to help me sometimes
because
> they see I am doing it happily and we'll be done in just a few
minutes. No
> matter what you do to change your routine at home make sure you
move toward
> joy and away from "have to" The feeling of drudgery is hard on you
but even
> harder for the children to see. They may think they are a burden
to you
> because of all the hard work. They need to feel instead how much
joy they
> bring you each day.
>
> One more word. Spring is coming. Try to get outside with your
children
> every day. Being inside so much all winter must be hard with
little ones.
> Take every opportunity to get out with them.
>
> Blessings,
> Krisula
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: seccotine@...

I would like to meet other parents who won't be critical about my
choices ... It is so helpful ! Here, I can't say anything, because I
know that the answers would be (as I already hear) : "your kid NEEDS
to go to school, he NEEDS to have a world of his own, you CAN'T
deprive him from that" (your girl HAS to sleep in her room, you
should stop breastfeeding her, etc). The thing is that I don't know
where these supportive parents are hiding ! I've been thinking on
initiating a group here, but I don't really know how to begin, how to
make myself known, etc.

-=-=-=

Start your own group if you cannot find one already.

I suggested that to Johanna in Germany. Her list is now up to 99
members! 129 new messages---busy group!

Pretty active group for a country in which homeschooling is illegal!

You're in France? I'd usually say start a group called
"FrenchUnschoolers." <g> But maybe something in your own language would
be better? <bwg> Post about it on all the homeschooling lists as well
as at LaLecheLeague boards/elists. Make a flyer to post at markets and
natural food stores, libraries, anywhere you might find like-minded
folk who are *also* in the same boat. They're ALL waiting for someone
else to make the first move!

I bet you'll have a following in NO time!


~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

Johanna

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: seccotine@...
>>
>> I would like to meet other parents who won't be critical about my
>> choices ... It is so helpful ! Here, I can't say anything, because I
>> know that the answers would be (as I already hear) : "your kid NEEDS
>> to go to school, he NEEDS to have a world of his own, you CAN'T
>> deprive him from that" (your girl HAS to sleep in her room, you
>> should stop breastfeeding her, etc). The thing is that I don't know
>> where these supportive parents are hiding ! I've been thinking on
>> initiating a group here, but I don't really know how to begin, how to
>> make myself known, etc.
>
> -=-=-=
>
> Start your own group if you cannot find one already.
>
> I suggested that to Johanna in Germany. Her list is now up to 99
> members! 129 new messages---busy group!
>
> Pretty active group for a country in which homeschooling is illegal!
>
> You're in France? I'd usually say start a group called
> "FrenchUnschoolers." <g> But maybe something in your own language
> would
> be better? <bwg> Post about it on all the homeschooling lists as well
> as at LaLecheLeague boards/elists. Make a flyer to post at markets and
> natural food stores, libraries, anywhere you might find like-minded
> folk who are *also* in the same boat. They're ALL waiting for someone
> else to make the first move!
>
> I bet you'll have a following in NO time!
>
> ~Kelly

Hello, I'm that Johanna and it really worked. I thought I was alone
in whole Germany, but I wasn't. I soon found out that even my own
city is full of us — actually it's the most "active" citiy regarding
respectfull parenting and because we cannot homeschool, we are very
actively trying get a Sudbury-School running as soon as possible.

I started a new Yahoo-Group and not much time later, the first people
just joined (I didn't do any advertising, I was busy planing that at
the time) without me even noticing. I found out when we were already
like 4 or so, but no one was talking. So I started the talking! I
asked questions, told something about myself and so on – so they
started inviting other people and I tried to keep the conversation
running. Then I started advertising in different forums and
mailinglists about just normal parenting and alternative school
systems and homeschooling. Then the people on the various Sudbury
Initiatives mailed ME and I got to know some personally. Now we've
had already the second Brunch-Meeting at a café (we do it monthly
now), and now I'm taking part in the planning of the EUDEC (European
Democratic Education Conference), which will take part next year in
Leipzig, Germany (and to which you are welcome to join - actually the
organisators are trying to do some networking! you'll find that they
all appreciate your ideas, motivation and so on! Try to find people
who are for democratic schools in France and probably more than half
of them are respectful parents (the other half also but not as
radical as the radical unschoolers here) – not all people dare to
home/unschool or CAN for that matter, because they have to work, so
they look for alternative schools.

Oh, and I remember I had already found an unschooling/respectful
parenting website in France! Maybe you can join them. Put advertises
online and in libraries, supermarkets and doctors and so on and in
magazines, if it's cheap. I put one that said "you have read Jean
Liedloff and don't know how to pursue those ideals in our
society?"... :-D I usually ask people who carry their babies instead
of using prams as well, if they have read that and if they are
interested in joining a group where we discuss the practicability of
these ideas.... they usually have!

I'm sure the mailinglist or forum you put up will grow and after a
while you'll find people in your own city. It's already amazingly
helpful to know you can speak to people online in your own language –
oh, and of course, even if they are far away so you cannot actually
meet so easily, you can call by phone (that's what we do, because we
are not all from the same city), and we'll have a small conference/
meeting soon :-D so we'll finally see each other :-)

Greetings and good luck!
Johanna


--
Unerzogen!
dialog@...
www.unerzogen.de
http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/unerzogen/

seccotine_ch

THANKS :)

I think I'll try that immediately. Didn't think of the natural food
stores :)

I'm always amazed as solutions "pop up" when you have such
difficulties. Last week, after writing here and still being quite
sad, I found a card at my drugstore (? the store where you can buy
pills and things like that) advertising for parenting groups not very
far from here. They don't seem to be unschoolers, more like
attachment parenting, but it's a start. I plan to go to a meeting on
Friday.

Many thanks for your ideas, sincerely.

My son still wants to go back to school, and it still makes me sad
(not only because it gives me the feeling that I failed him in some
way, but also because I'm going to miss him ...). I guess that he's
missing his friends and some aspects of the "group life" and that he
probably needs to get some air (his little sister litterally worships
him and is always after him - they're having lot of fun, but it might
be too much for him sometimes). I don't know what to do, I won't
force him to stay at home, of course, this wouldn't make any sense,
but I find the idea of him going back to school a bit depressing (to
say the least).

Thanks again
Helen

--- In [email protected], Johanna <dialog@...> wrote:
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: seccotine@...
> >>
> >> I would like to meet other parents who won't be critical about my
> >> choices ... It is so helpful ! Here, I can't say anything,
because I
> >> know that the answers would be (as I already hear) : "your kid
NEEDS
> >> to go to school, he NEEDS to have a world of his own, you CAN'T
> >> deprive him from that" (your girl HAS to sleep in her room, you
> >> should stop breastfeeding her, etc). The thing is that I don't
know
> >> where these supportive parents are hiding ! I've been thinking on
> >> initiating a group here, but I don't really know how to begin,
how to
> >> make myself known, etc.
> >
> > -=-=-=
> >
> > Start your own group if you cannot find one already.
> >
> > I suggested that to Johanna in Germany. Her list is now up to 99
> > members! 129 new messages---busy group!
> >
> > Pretty active group for a country in which homeschooling is
illegal!
> >
> > You're in France? I'd usually say start a group called
> > "FrenchUnschoolers." <g> But maybe something in your own
language
> > would
> > be better? <bwg> Post about it on all the homeschooling lists as
well
> > as at LaLecheLeague boards/elists. Make a flyer to post at
markets and
> > natural food stores, libraries, anywhere you might find like-
minded
> > folk who are *also* in the same boat. They're ALL waiting for
someone
> > else to make the first move!
> >
> > I bet you'll have a following in NO time!
> >
> > ~Kelly
>
> Hello, I'm that Johanna and it really worked. I thought I was
alone
> in whole Germany, but I wasn't. I soon found out that even my own
> city is full of us — actually it's the most "active" citiy
regarding
> respectfull parenting and because we cannot homeschool, we are
very
> actively trying get a Sudbury-School running as soon as possible.
>
> I started a new Yahoo-Group and not much time later, the first
people
> just joined (I didn't do any advertising, I was busy planing that
at
> the time) without me even noticing. I found out when we were
already
> like 4 or so, but no one was talking. So I started the talking! I
> asked questions, told something about myself and so on – so they
> started inviting other people and I tried to keep the conversation
> running. Then I started advertising in different forums and
> mailinglists about just normal parenting and alternative school
> systems and homeschooling. Then the people on the various Sudbury
> Initiatives mailed ME and I got to know some personally. Now we've
> had already the second Brunch-Meeting at a café (we do it monthly
> now), and now I'm taking part in the planning of the EUDEC
(European
> Democratic Education Conference), which will take part next year
in
> Leipzig, Germany (and to which you are welcome to join - actually
the
> organisators are trying to do some networking! you'll find that
they
> all appreciate your ideas, motivation and so on! Try to find
people
> who are for democratic schools in France and probably more than
half
> of them are respectful parents (the other half also but not as
> radical as the radical unschoolers here) – not all people dare to
> home/unschool or CAN for that matter, because they have to work,
so
> they look for alternative schools.
>
> Oh, and I remember I had already found an unschooling/respectful
> parenting website in France! Maybe you can join them. Put
advertises
> online and in libraries, supermarkets and doctors and so on and in
> magazines, if it's cheap. I put one that said "you have read Jean
> Liedloff and don't know how to pursue those ideals in our
> society?"... :-D I usually ask people who carry their babies
instead
> of using prams as well, if they have read that and if they are
> interested in joining a group where we discuss the practicability
of
> these ideas.... they usually have!
>
> I'm sure the mailinglist or forum you put up will grow and after a
> while you'll find people in your own city. It's already amazingly
> helpful to know you can speak to people online in your own
language –
> oh, and of course, even if they are far away so you cannot
actually
> meet so easily, you can call by phone (that's what we do, because
we
> are not all from the same city), and we'll have a small conference/
> meeting soon :-D so we'll finally see each other :-)
>
> Greetings and good luck!
> Johanna
>
>
> --
> Unerzogen!
> dialog@...
> www.unerzogen.de
> http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/unerzogen/
>