tylightzone

I am new to the group and unsure that I want to completely convert to
the unschooling ways but here is what I am asking for. My kids are
ages 13, 10, and 7. They love hands on projects but I am a "project"
of the public school and am at a loss for ideas. I feel if we are not
sitting with noses in books we aren't learning but I know that I also
learned better with hands on projects I just don't know how to
approach it or where to go. I need help finding sources of ideas for
Science and Social Studies and even math or any other things that I
can help them to learn with, without being stuck in a book. If you
have any ideas I would really appreciate the help.

Twila

Ren Allen

~~I need help finding sources of ideas for
Science and Social Studies and even math or any other things that I
can help them to learn with, without being stuck in a book. ~~


You might want to get "unstuck" from the mindset that you need to
cover topics before you even think about projects. The first step
towards unschooling, is to see life as the best way to learn. Life
involves play and exploration and ideas and discovery, but there's no
need for a schoolish mindset to affect how you approach those things.

So....first step; quit trying to cover subjects. Second step; start
playing and focusing on the things that bring you joy. Third step;
declare each day a vacation....you'll be well on your way to
unschooling at that point!:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Joanne

>>>>>I need help finding sources of ideas for Science and Social
Studies and even math or any other things that I can help them to
learn with, without being stuck in a book.>>>>

Here are some links that may be helpful.

http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=297
http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=412
http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2006/10/unschooling-voices-
4.html

If the links get scrambled or cut off, I'll repost them for you.

I also suggest, as Ren pointed out, trying to start looking at
learning in a different way. This link may help with that:
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2007/02/unschooling-voices-
7.html

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

Joanne

Looks like the last two links got cut off so here they are again:

Unschooling math:
http://tinyurl.com/2rmzh2


Deschooling:
http://tinyurl.com/ys6gm7

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/




--- In [email protected], "Joanne"
<billyandjoanne@...> wrote:
>
> >>>>>I need help finding sources of ideas for Science and Social
> Studies and even math or any other things that I can help them to
> learn with, without being stuck in a book.>>>>
>
> Here are some links that may be helpful.
>
> http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=297
> http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=412
> http://www.unschooling.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293
> http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2006/10/unschooling-voices-
> 4.html
>
> If the links get scrambled or cut off, I'll repost them for you.
>
> I also suggest, as Ren pointed out, trying to start looking at
> learning in a different way. This link may help with that:
> http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2007/02/unschooling-voices-
> 7.html
>
> ~ Joanne ~
> Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
> http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
>

Twila Francis

I just wanted to thank all of you for some great ideas
and websites. Like I said, I want to make learning
fun but am just not prepared to completely unschool
yet. If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
have done that have worked, I would love to hear those
as well. I appreciate all the support and help.

Thanks so much
Twila




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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: tylightzone@...

They love hands on projects but I am a "project"
of the public school and am at a loss for ideas. I feel if we are not
sitting with noses in books we aren't learning but I know that I also
learned better with hands on projects I just don't know how to
approach it or where to go. I need help finding sources of ideas for
Science and Social Studies and even math or any other things that I
can help them to learn with, without being stuck in a book. If you
have any ideas I would really appreciate the help.

-=-=-=-

As much as I love them, books are over-rated. <g>

Life and learning shouldn't be divided into subjects---they're all
connected and interconnected. Math IS science IS social studies IS art
is history IS music IS literature. If you can see how things are
connected and how they intertwine and inspire and filter through each
other, your learning will be more organic and meaningful.

Science and social studies can't be separated: bubonic plague? atomic
bombs? penicillin? influenza of 1918? Advances in science transform our
society! Lasagne? Sushi? Sauerbraten? Tortillas? The science of food
and eating can define societies! Math is found in ALL those things! As
are history, music, art, literature, etc.

Pick a subject, any subject (I don't mean *school* subjects!)---like
fashion. Or WWII. Furniture design or gardening. Drumming or clocks.
Delve INTO that subject/passion. You WILL hit on math and science and
social studies and art and music and history and literature. GUARANTEED!

BUT---to answer your question: try the SCA (Society for Creative
Anachronism) as a place to start with hands-on learning. Most areas of
the country have *some* kind of living history museum or reinactments
(around here, in SC, we have both the Civil War and Revolutionary War
reinactors---and just last year a group set up a Roman camp). Go. Be.
Share. Ask questions. Maybe get involved next time!

For "science" try the local glass-blowers (don't forget to notice all
the *ART* around you while on that science trip <G>) or blacksmith or
bakery. "Social studies"---go sit at the mall or on a bench downtown.
Watch the people. If you want, you can make a checklist: how many/how
many together/how many red shoes/hairstyles/cell phones/ ...WHY?

History: Netflix all the war movies ever made. Compare all the takes on
war and intrigue. Look at how CLEAN war was in the early movies---like
ONE spot of blood on a sparkly uniform. THEN watch one of these recent
movies: BraveHeart, Saving Private Ryan, The Patriot, Gladiator---blood
and guts and gore and veins between your teeth! Why?

Get a big map of the US. Another of the world. Check off where you've
been. Where you *want* to go. Watch how that changes.

I'm giving these examples NOT for your children!!! YOU go do them! SEE
how much you're learning. Then accept that they will too.

Learning is everywhere, but most people have been brainwashed into
thinking that learning only happens with books and in a classroom. We
didn't have either until pretty recently in history---how did we EVER
move out of caves???



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


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Vickisue Gray

Excellent point, Kelly!
Yesterday, we watched Romancing the Stone. It brought up all types of discussion
about South America and my son grabbed the globe and looked for the places shown.
Since he stated no dragons live there, he wouldn't be traveling there in the future.
Vicki







---------------------------------
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa Heyman

>If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
>have done that have worked, I would love to hear those
>as well. I appreciate all the support and help.
>
>Thanks so much
>Twila


Twila,
the best ideas here have come from my kids. ask them what they want to
do...what they are interested in doing. if they could do anything what
would it be?

if i've bumped into something going on that i think might be interesting i
ask them if they want to do it before signing them up for any program
offered by local community/or homeschooling community. It doesn't seem to
matter if i think it's a great idea of they are not interested.

given the opportunity kids can create all sorts of activites, programs,
projects and crafts from their passions....

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search Maps � find all the local information you need, right when you
need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01

The Jeffrees

My kids love to trawl through the website www.makingfriends.com - there are great paper dolls there which my daughter is obsessed with at the moment and many many more easy crafts; if you need equipment they sell all that in packs and seperately too.

Kindest Wishes,
Anita
-xxx-


----- Original Message -----
From: Twila Francis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help


I just wanted to thank all of you for some great ideas
and websites. Like I said, I want to make learning
fun but am just not prepared to completely unschool
yet. If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
have done that have worked, I would love to hear those
as well. I appreciate all the support and help.

Thanks so much
Twila

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Like I said, I want to make learning
fun but am just not prepared to completely unschool
yet. If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
have done that have worked, I would love to hear those
as well. ~~


This list exists to help people unschool, not find ways to get
information into their kids while candy coating it. If you want to let
go of schoolish thinking, we can give lots of great information. If
you want ways to make forced learning fun, we're not going to be of
much use to you.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

Like I said, I want to make learning
fun but am just not prepared to completely unschool
yet. If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
have done that have worked, I would love to hear those
as well.
****************
But on an unschooling list, you are going to get unschooling ideas. "Projects" develop, naturally, from all those unschooling ideas that were given. They are not laid out with a plan in mind, steps drawn up and neatly ordered.
Learning IS fun, when it is not "Learning". *learning* about rocks is the exact same thing as picking them up, looking at the little spots of color, hefting their weight, eyeing the stream, throwing it as hard as you can to make as big a splash as you can. *learning* is realizing that big rocks make BIG splashes, especially if you can toss them from the bridge over the creek.
No one needs to make that fun, it just is.
****
If anyone has had projects or crafts that they
have done that have worked**
By worked you mean like a catpult that heaves rocks? or a light switch that turns lights on or off?
I'm being facetious here.
I think you may be meaning - projects or crafts that made boring stuff fun.
No. I'm not trying to get my kids to "Learn" what I think they should be learning. I'm busily rushing behind them to try to keep up with all the wonderful exciting things they are interested in. Pokemon strategies and characters, bearded dragons, paper dolls, amuse bouches, indie rock chicks, Naruto maps, environmental issues, mountaintop removal, tampaction, chef's knives, fossils, birding, raised beds, acrylic painting, and so on and so on and so on.
Elissa Jill
OTN:
Stitch of the Day Swatch
silk/wool blend tie front mini sweater
http://mystikmusings.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Twila Francis

--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:


> This list exists to help people unschool, not find
> ways to get
> information into their kids while candy coating it.
> If you want to let
> go of schoolish thinking, we can give lots of great
> information. If
> you want ways to make forced learning fun, we're not
> going to be of
> much use to you.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com




Well, honestly I have gotten a lot of help and
understanding from everyone but you. I said that I am
just not prepared to make that leap yet and unsure if
I will or not but if I don't get help and
understanding from those that are doing it how will I
know more about it. I think the first step to
unschooling starts with getting out of the mind set
that learning HAS to be from a book and that is what I
am trying to do. I am doing what I think is best for
my children, I am changing my ways of thinking JUST by
being on this list. Maybe I am not expressing myself
very well. I am trying to open my way of thinking and
not subject my children to the "closed minded", "only
one right way to do it" thinking that I went through
and my kids have been subjected to when they were in
public school.

My oldest is very interested in Dungeons and
dragons...he does spend many hours just planning out
dungeons and campains, my daughter spends lots of time
playing with barbies and drawing, and my youngest just
likes to have books read to him. My oldest asked if I
could help him with learning about civil war weapons
and uniforms and such and I can but the way I learned
about it was through a boring book and I don't want to
do that to him. I also go through days that I feel
like they are not learning if they are not behind a
book but instead of throwing a book at them I am
trying to encourage them with some experiments and
cool projects.

So correct me if I am wrong, is the group for families
that are learning about unschooling or not. If not, I
will GLADLY leave and you will never hear from me
again. Thanks for your time.

Twila



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Schafer Vanessa

Hi Twila,

I know exactly what you are going through. My kids
were also in public school until the end of their 3rd
and 4th grade years. It is hard to break away from
the schooly things/terms. I am still getting used to
unschooling, and it is hard. It gets hard when you are
used to doing things one way.

How about since your son is into the dungeons and
dragons stuff, maybe you could rent some movies or
something that has dragons in it.

We really don't do much around my house. Alot of
times, the kids play video games, or we play board
games, or watch movies. They do help me when we
grocery shop, by adding how much we spend, so that I
don't forget where we are at, especially since money
is tight.

There is a Sandra Dodd website that has a lot of good
information. There are tons of things to do, it's
just what you are all interested in. Last fall, we
dug up some hostas, because I was tired of them, and
they were choking out my other flowers. We all
learned that we aren't planting any hostas, they are
to hard to dig up. We also went to the Air Zoo, which
the kids hated.

I think one of the first things we did, and are kind
of still doing is to deschool. From what I've heard,
it's one month per year your child was in school.
After that, just do what you guys are interested in.
I have noticed that my kids are much happier, and more
relaxed than they were when they were in public
school. Feel free to email me off list if you want to
talk/ bounce ideas off me.

Hope you find what you are looking for. Most of the
people on this list are really helpful. I started out
on another website, besides this one, trying to find
out what unschooling was, and what a typical day was
like. I can tell you that there aren't any typical
days, everyone's day looks different. Just when you
think that the kids aren't learning anything, they
surprise you.

Take care and good luck.

-- Vanessa
--- Twila Francis <tylightzone@...> wrote:

>
> --- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
>
> > This list exists to help people unschool, not find
> > ways to get
> > information into their kids while candy coating
> it.
> > If you want to let
> > go of schoolish thinking, we can give lots of
> great
> > information. If
> > you want ways to make forced learning fun, we're
> not
> > going to be of
> > much use to you.
> >
> > Ren
> > learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>
> Well, honestly I have gotten a lot of help and
> understanding from everyone but you. I said that I
> am
> just not prepared to make that leap yet and unsure
> if
> I will or not but if I don't get help and
> understanding from those that are doing it how will
> I
> know more about it. I think the first step to
> unschooling starts with getting out of the mind set
> that learning HAS to be from a book and that is what
> I
> am trying to do. I am doing what I think is best
> for
> my children, I am changing my ways of thinking JUST
> by
> being on this list. Maybe I am not expressing
> myself
> very well. I am trying to open my way of thinking
> and
> not subject my children to the "closed minded",
> "only
> one right way to do it" thinking that I went through
> and my kids have been subjected to when they were in
> public school.
>
> My oldest is very interested in Dungeons and
> dragons...he does spend many hours just planning out
> dungeons and campains, my daughter spends lots of
> time
> playing with barbies and drawing, and my youngest
> just
> likes to have books read to him. My oldest asked if
> I
> could help him with learning about civil war weapons
> and uniforms and such and I can but the way I
> learned
> about it was through a boring book and I don't want
> to
> do that to him. I also go through days that I feel
> like they are not learning if they are not behind a
> book but instead of throwing a book at them I am
> trying to encourage them with some experiments and
> cool projects.
>
> So correct me if I am wrong, is the group for
> families
> that are learning about unschooling or not. If not,
> I
> will GLADLY leave and you will never hear from me
> again. Thanks for your time.
>
> Twila
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
> previews at Yahoo! Games.
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
>




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Ren Allen

~~So correct me if I am wrong, is the group for families
that are learning about unschooling or not. If not, I
will GLADLY leave and you will never hear from me
again. Thanks for your time.~~

Nobody is asking you to leave. I'm explaining what kind of advice is
given here....unschooling advice. If someone wants help teaching their
kids or making forced learning fun, that's not true to the intent of
this list, nor is it fair to ask anyone to change the purpose of the list.

If you want fun ideas related to topics your children are interested
in, we can always offer up ideas. They aren't going to look very
schoolish though.

This group is for anyone that wants to join. We don't control the
membership on any level, but we did decide what kind of list we wanted
and what kind of information would be shared here when we created it.

If someone joins a vegetarian list and wants information on how to
cook steak, they might hear about why that won't work on that
particular list.;)

Nobody here decides who is unschooling or not, nobody wants to force
anyone to unschool or tell anyone what to do. But if you come here
asking for advice, we're going to give you advice about how to get
closer to unschooling.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Twila Francis
<tylightzone@...> wrote:
>>My oldest asked if I
> could help him with learning about civil war weapons
> and uniforms and such and I can but the way I learned
> about it was through a boring book and I don't want to
> do that to him.

Specific information like this is really helpful if you're looking
for ideas on an unschooling list.

Does your oldest like museums? That seems like a place to start. I
don't remember where you live, but if you're in the South, try
finding local historical societies. Also, look for civil war re-
enactment groups. There are some *serious* folks out there with a
passion for the Civil War, even outside of Dixie.

> I also go through days that I feel
> like they are not learning if they are not behind a
> book but instead of throwing a book at them I am
> trying to encourage them with some experiments and
> cool projects.

This is where you need to take a Big Deep Breath and look at what
your kids *are* doing rather than what you *wish* they were doing.
You have a dd who enjoys barbies and drawing - there's a Lot of
learning going on there. The challenge is you learning to see it, or
trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know I've come
across a lot of references to unschoolers learning via playing with
barbies - if you do a search on Sandra's site you'll find all sorts
of stuff and I believe Ren Allen is a Great source of information in
this area....

I know from personal experience that drawing opens up all kinds of
worlds of learning (even if it means your house is covered in paper
all the time...still getting over that, here!). My dd spends a lot
of her time drawing right now, and I love that I get to see what
she's thinking about, what's important to her, what she's learning!
Its amazing and inspiring.

I see you have another child who likes to have things read to him,
that's nice. Are there particular kinds of things he likes to read
more than others? What are his other interests? Since unschooling is
about supporting children's interests, it helps enormously to know
what those interests Are.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

David Johnson

Oh, my 6 and 8 year olds LOVE books. We get to the point at the library
(esp. with my 6 y.o.) when they won�t let us check out anymore materials
until we return some!! Books are wonderful, I think they�ve just gotten
that reputation as boring from us HAVING to read ones we didn�t want to
in school.



Have fun!
~Melissa :-)



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of plaidpanties666
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help



--- In HYPERLINK
"mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com"unschoolingbasics@-yahoogrou
ps.-com, Twila Francis
<tylightzone@-...> wrote:
>>My oldest asked if I
> could help him with learning about civil war weapons
> and uniforms and such and I can but the way I learned
> about it was through a boring book and I don't want to
> do that to him.

Specific information like this is really helpful if you're looking
for ideas on an unschooling list.

Does your oldest like museums? That seems like a place to start. I
don't remember where you live, but if you're in the South, try
finding local historical societies. Also, look for civil war re-
enactment groups. There are some *serious* folks out there with a
passion for the Civil War, even outside of Dixie.

> I also go through days that I feel
> like they are not learning if they are not behind a
> book but instead of throwing a book at them I am
> trying to encourage them with some experiments and
> cool projects.

This is where you need to take a Big Deep Breath and look at what
your kids *are* doing rather than what you *wish* they were doing.
You have a dd who enjoys barbies and drawing - there's a Lot of
learning going on there. The challenge is you learning to see it, or
trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know I've come
across a lot of references to unschoolers learning via playing with
barbies - if you do a search on Sandra's site you'll find all sorts
of stuff and I believe Ren Allen is a Great source of information in
this area....

I know from personal experience that drawing opens up all kinds of
worlds of learning (even if it means your house is covered in paper
all the time...still getting over that, here!). My dd spends a lot
of her time drawing right now, and I love that I get to see what
she's thinking about, what's important to her, what she's learning!
Its amazing and inspiring.

I see you have another child who likes to have things read to him,
that's nice. Are there particular kinds of things he likes to read
more than others? What are his other interests? Since unschooling is
about supporting children's interests, it helps enormously to know
what those interests Are.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)




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3/21/2007 7:52 AM



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Twila Francis

--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> Does your oldest like museums? That seems like a
> place to start.


We live in Arkansas. I am getting so many good ideas.
I will check into some museums or such. He might
like that. Haven't really been to many so we will see
and if not we can mark that off.


--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

The challenge is you
> learning to see it, or
> trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know



So how do I learn to see that if I don't know what I
am looking for. I was taught that "at this grade they
should know this..." I don't like that mentality but
I don't know how to steer away from it.


--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:



> Are there particular kinds of things he
> likes to read
> more than others? What are his other interests?


My oldest is almost 13 yob, my second is 10 yog and my
youngest is 7 yob.


He just loves any books and all books. Always has
loved to be read to. He wants to be a fireman when he
grows up. He likes puzzles, loves watching t.v.,
likes board games, and snuggling...lol

My oldest is mostly interested in Dungeons and
Dungeons but he also likes playing Xbox, computer
games, chatting with friends on Yahoo IM, Yu-Gi-Oh,
weapons, TV, and wants to be a game system game
designer or computer game designer.

My Daughter likes barbies, drawing, watching t.v.,
playing softball, and is TOTALLY wrapped up in horses
(anything to do with horses) She wants to be a horse
trainer when she grows up and has since she could
talk. We would go to the library and all she would
want to look at is book about horses and is still like
that.

I struggle all the time with being taught that
learning had to be from a book, learning has to be
"boring", learning has to be taught. I know that
isn't right because I watched them learn when they
were small by just playing with the blocks or rolling
the ball but still it is hard to drop that. <sigh>

Anyway thanks for the help

Twila



____________________________________________________________________________________
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See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

Twila Francis

I know what you mean. We have 4 cards at the library
and we nearly always max them out. lol...We just went
yesterday and got so many books. I used to try to get
them to read books that they didn't like but I have
realized that it is just so not worth it. My oldest
got all kinds of books on weapons, civil war uniforms,
civil war projects, snakes, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Dungeons and
Dragons. My dd got books on horses, Lizzie McGuire,
and cake decorating. My youngest got books on
weopons, bugs, magic school bus, and birds. They have
been seeing lots of birds that they don't know what
they are and wanted to know and of course I don't have
a clue so we got a book to see if we can figure it
out. hehe.

Thanks

Twila




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Georgette Teekel

We love the library,as well....StoryTime

David Johnson <dj250@...> wrote: Oh, my 6 and 8 year olds LOVE books. We get to the point at the library
(esp. with my 6 y.o.) when they won’t let us check out anymore materials
until we return some!! Books are wonderful, I think they’ve just gotten
that reputation as boring from us HAVING to read ones we didn’t want to
in school.



Have fun!
~Melissa :-)



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of plaidpanties666
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hands on Help



--- In HYPERLINK
"mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com"unschoolingbasics@-yahoogrou
ps.-com, Twila Francis
wrote:
>>My oldest asked if I
> could help him with learning about civil war weapons
> and uniforms and such and I can but the way I learned
> about it was through a boring book and I don't want to
> do that to him.

Specific information like this is really helpful if you're looking
for ideas on an unschooling list.

Does your oldest like museums? That seems like a place to start. I
don't remember where you live, but if you're in the South, try
finding local historical societies. Also, look for civil war re-
enactment groups. There are some *serious* folks out there with a
passion for the Civil War, even outside of Dixie.

> I also go through days that I feel
> like they are not learning if they are not behind a
> book but instead of throwing a book at them I am
> trying to encourage them with some experiments and
> cool projects.

This is where you need to take a Big Deep Breath and look at what
your kids *are* doing rather than what you *wish* they were doing.
You have a dd who enjoys barbies and drawing - there's a Lot of
learning going on there. The challenge is you learning to see it, or
trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know I've come
across a lot of references to unschoolers learning via playing with
barbies - if you do a search on Sandra's site you'll find all sorts
of stuff and I believe Ren Allen is a Great source of information in
this area....

I know from personal experience that drawing opens up all kinds of
worlds of learning (even if it means your house is covered in paper
all the time...still getting over that, here!). My dd spends a lot
of her time drawing right now, and I love that I get to see what
she's thinking about, what's important to her, what she's learning!
Its amazing and inspiring.

I see you have another child who likes to have things read to him,
that's nice. Are there particular kinds of things he likes to read
more than others? What are his other interests? Since unschooling is
about supporting children's interests, it helps enormously to know
what those interests Are.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa Heyman

>From: Twila Francis <tylightzone@...>
>I was taught that "at this grade they
>should know this..." I don't like that mentality but
>I don't know how to steer away from it.
>
>

Being aware of this kind of limited thinking is half the battle. another
part is being aware when you find yourself falling into the trap of this
kind of thinking - staying conscious of how you are with your kids. the
more you are trully in the moment with your child, the more you focus on
what they are doing rather than what they are not doing, the more you stop
yourself from comparing but switch to appreciating - the more this kind of
thinking will leave your consciousness. We are human and may find ourselves
falling into old stinking thinking that gets in the way of really serving
our children's best interest but that's when we need to laugh at ourselves,
apologize to our kids (if need be) and move on. If you are commited to
unschooling you will get better at stearing away from it with time and
practice. Confidence comes with experience. Your child is just
fine/perfect the way they are in any given moment.

Lisa Heyman

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Georgette Teekel

Museums!Thats a great idea.

Twila Francis <tylightzone@...> wrote: --- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> Does your oldest like museums? That seems like a
> place to start.

We live in Arkansas. I am getting so many good ideas.
I will check into some museums or such. He might
like that. Haven't really been to many so we will see
and if not we can mark that off.

--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

The challenge is you
> learning to see it, or
> trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know

So how do I learn to see that if I don't know what I
am looking for. I was taught that "at this grade they
should know this..." I don't like that mentality but
I don't know how to steer away from it.

--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> Are there particular kinds of things he
> likes to read
> more than others? What are his other interests?

My oldest is almost 13 yob, my second is 10 yog and my
youngest is 7 yob.

He just loves any books and all books. Always has
loved to be read to. He wants to be a fireman when he
grows up. He likes puzzles, loves watching t.v.,
likes board games, and snuggling...lol

My oldest is mostly interested in Dungeons and
Dungeons but he also likes playing Xbox, computer
games, chatting with friends on Yahoo IM, Yu-Gi-Oh,
weapons, TV, and wants to be a game system game
designer or computer game designer.

My Daughter likes barbies, drawing, watching t.v.,
playing softball, and is TOTALLY wrapped up in horses
(anything to do with horses) She wants to be a horse
trainer when she grows up and has since she could
talk. We would go to the library and all she would
want to look at is book about horses and is still like
that.

I struggle all the time with being taught that
learning had to be from a book, learning has to be
"boring", learning has to be taught. I know that
isn't right because I watched them learn when they
were small by just playing with the blocks or rolling
the ball but still it is hard to drop that. <sigh>

Anyway thanks for the help

Twila

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Katharine Wise

>So how do I learn to see that if I don't know what I
>am looking for. I was taught that "at this grade they
>should know this..." I don't like that mentality but
>I don't know how to steer away from it.


One way to know that they're learning is just to notice how well they function in life -- can they figure things out when they need information? can they interact with other kids and adults without seeming ignorant? (I don't mean if people are grilling them on facts in a schoolish way, but just regular conversation and play.) The answer to these questions is almost certainly yes because children (and adults too, hopefully:-) do grow and learn, they can't help it.

Katharine













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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 22, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Twila Francis wrote:

>> The challenge is you
>> learning to see it, or
>> trust that its happening if you can't see it. I know
>
> So how do I learn to see that if I don't know what I
> am looking for. I was taught that "at this grade they
> should know this..." I don't like that mentality but
> I don't know how to steer away from it.

You look for greater mastery at what they're doing rather than
specific (school) skills or knowledge.

How did you know they were progressing learning to speak English? Did
you check whether they had mastered skills from a checklist? Or did
you observe that "Hey, last month he couldn't say "milk" and this
month he can."?

If you think of learning as pulling the kids to a particular
destination, then it's important that they show they're progressing
towards that goal. It's cause for worry if you can't see where they
are along the path.

If, instead, you think of learning as them reaching out and pulling
towards them whatever interests them (which can be cartoons, games,
mudpuddles, Harry Potter, banging on the piano, Shakespeare ...),
then your role is to help them reach it and make sure they have lots
of stuff (not limited to physical stuff but ideas (like
conversations), opportunities (like tv shows! and library trips and
musuems) and so on) in their lives they could reach out for when
they're in need of new interests, then unschooling is a whole lot
easier.

No, from a school point of view, it doesn't seem like enough to let
them play. But play *is* how kids are created to learn. It's why
putting a textbook in front of them is so hard for them. It's not
that learning is hard. It's that learning in ways that's unnatural to
them is hard.

We are hardwired to pull sense out of the world, not memorize someone
else's sense. It's how we pull an understanding of our native
language out of the chaos of words flowing around us as toddlers. We
dismiss that ability as something that just happens. But think of the
power of pulling that kind of order out of that kind of chaos by a
child that schools would turn their noses up as not being ready to
learn.

Says a lot about schools.

Says way more about the power of natural learning. If a child can
pull English out of the atmosphere, a child can pull sense out of the
world of cartoons and games and literature and conversations and pets
and grocery shopping ... If they have a desire for rocket science in
them, they'll be pulling it out of Road Runner cartoons and asking
for more :-)

Children pull out and build a sense of the world from what interests
them. They make guesses at how the world (including English) works,
try them out and then refine their world picture based on the
outcome. It's how they learn English. It's how they learn anything.
Until adults interfere.

The talk I gave at the Live and Learn Conference a few years ago
might help:

Why You Can't Let Go:
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Twila Francis
<tylightzone@...> wrote:
>> I struggle all the time with being taught that
> learning had to be from a book, learning has to be
> "boring", learning has to be taught. I know that
> isn't right because I watched them learn when they
> were small by just playing with the blocks or rolling
> the ball but still it is hard to drop that. <sigh>

Have you heard about Mulitple Intelligences?

http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/

That may be a really valuble way for you to start re-thinking what
constitutes "learning". Your kids sound like they are doing a whole
lot of really fabulous learning on their own, to me.

Another thought is to look at different personality types - our
personalities effect the ways we learn things, so if the "mulitple
intelligences" don't seem to answer you questions, thinking in terms
of personality as an aspect of learning may be helpful to you. Here
are a couple different ways to look at personality:

http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html

http://www.9types.com/

While you're trying to figure this all out, declare a holiday and
see what your kids choose to do on their own. Seriously. They aren't
going to learn anything as well as they could, as joyfully as they
could, with you breathing fire down their necks ;) Tell them that
*you* need to do some learning of your own.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Twila Francis

Thanks Joyce, I will watch the conference. I know my
kids learned to do so many things without me pushing
them, just encouraging and helping to give them the
tools. I agree that it is harder to deschool me than
them. I just naturally want to limit them on this or
that. I get so scared that I won't "prepare" them for
the world to come.

Twila


--- Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:

>
> On Mar 22, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Twila Francis wrote:
>
> >> The challenge is you
> >> learning to see it, or
> >> trust that its happening if you can't see it. I
> know
> >
> > So how do I learn to see that if I don't know what
> I
> > am looking for. I was taught that "at this grade
> they
> > should know this..." I don't like that mentality
> but
> > I don't know how to steer away from it.
>
> You look for greater mastery at what they're doing
> rather than
> specific (school) skills or knowledge.
>
> How did you know they were progressing learning to
> speak English? Did
> you check whether they had mastered skills from a
> checklist? Or did
> you observe that "Hey, last month he couldn't say
> "milk" and this
> month he can."?
>
> If you think of learning as pulling the kids to a
> particular
> destination, then it's important that they show
> they're progressing
> towards that goal. It's cause for worry if you can't
> see where they
> are along the path.
>
> If, instead, you think of learning as them reaching
> out and pulling
> towards them whatever interests them (which can be
> cartoons, games,
> mudpuddles, Harry Potter, banging on the piano,
> Shakespeare ...),
> then your role is to help them reach it and make
> sure they have lots
> of stuff (not limited to physical stuff but ideas
> (like
> conversations), opportunities (like tv shows! and
> library trips and
> musuems) and so on) in their lives they could reach
> out for when
> they're in need of new interests, then unschooling
> is a whole lot
> easier.
>
> No, from a school point of view, it doesn't seem
> like enough to let
> them play. But play *is* how kids are created to
> learn. It's why
> putting a textbook in front of them is so hard for
> them. It's not
> that learning is hard. It's that learning in ways
> that's unnatural to
> them is hard.
>
> We are hardwired to pull sense out of the world, not
> memorize someone
> else's sense. It's how we pull an understanding of
> our native
> language out of the chaos of words flowing around us
> as toddlers. We
> dismiss that ability as something that just happens.
> But think of the
> power of pulling that kind of order out of that kind
> of chaos by a
> child that schools would turn their noses up as not
> being ready to
> learn.
>
> Says a lot about schools.
>
> Says way more about the power of natural learning.
> If a child can
> pull English out of the atmosphere, a child can pull
> sense out of the
> world of cartoons and games and literature and
> conversations and pets
> and grocery shopping ... If they have a desire for
> rocket science in
> them, they'll be pulling it out of Road Runner
> cartoons and asking
> for more :-)
>
> Children pull out and build a sense of the world
> from what interests
> them. They make guesses at how the world (including
> English) works,
> try them out and then refine their world picture
> based on the
> outcome. It's how they learn English. It's how they
> learn anything.
> Until adults interfere.
>
> The talk I gave at the Live and Learn Conference a
> few years ago
> might help:
>
> Why You Can't Let Go:
> http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




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Twila Francis

Thanks Meredith...I will work on this and check out
the websites you have mentioned.

Twila
--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> --- In [email protected], Twila
> Francis
> <tylightzone@...> wrote:
> >> I struggle all the time with being taught that
> > learning had to be from a book, learning has to be
> > "boring", learning has to be taught. I know that
> > isn't right because I watched them learn when they
> > were small by just playing with the blocks or
> rolling
> > the ball but still it is hard to drop that.
> <sigh>
>
> Have you heard about Mulitple Intelligences?
>
> http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/
>
> That may be a really valuble way for you to start
> re-thinking what
> constitutes "learning". Your kids sound like they
> are doing a whole
> lot of really fabulous learning on their own, to me.
>
> Another thought is to look at different personality
> types - our
> personalities effect the ways we learn things, so if
> the "mulitple
> intelligences" don't seem to answer you questions,
> thinking in terms
> of personality as an aspect of learning may be
> helpful to you. Here
> are a couple different ways to look at personality:
>
>
http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html
>
> http://www.9types.com/
>
> While you're trying to figure this all out, declare
> a holiday and
> see what your kids choose to do on their own.
> Seriously. They aren't
> going to learn anything as well as they could, as
> joyfully as they
> could, with you breathing fire down their necks ;)
> Tell them that
> *you* need to do some learning of your own.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>
>




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Georgette Teekel

Thanks!I'll for sure check those sites out.I am a research freak,ha!

plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote: --- In [email protected], Twila Francis
<tylightzone@...> wrote:
>> I struggle all the time with being taught that
> learning had to be from a book, learning has to be
> "boring", learning has to be taught. I know that
> isn't right because I watched them learn when they
> were small by just playing with the blocks or rolling
> the ball but still it is hard to drop that. <sigh>

Have you heard about Mulitple Intelligences?

http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/

That may be a really valuble way for you to start re-thinking what
constitutes "learning". Your kids sound like they are doing a whole
lot of really fabulous learning on their own, to me.

Another thought is to look at different personality types - our
personalities effect the ways we learn things, so if the "mulitple
intelligences" don't seem to answer you questions, thinking in terms
of personality as an aspect of learning may be helpful to you. Here
are a couple different ways to look at personality:

http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html

http://www.9types.com/

While you're trying to figure this all out, declare a holiday and
see what your kids choose to do on their own. Seriously. They aren't
going to learn anything as well as they could, as joyfully as they
could, with you breathing fire down their necks ;) Tell them that
*you* need to do some learning of your own.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 23, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Twila Francis wrote:

> I get so scared that I won't "prepare" them for
> the world to come.


How did you prepare them to speak as well as they do now?

Living *today* prepares them for tomorrow. Living tomorrow prepares
them for the next day. One day at a time.

Rather than worrying about what they might need, fill their days with
things they enjoy or might enjoy right now. A rich environment
*today* will be a wealth to draw on when tomorrow comes.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]