natalijoi

Hello! I am Natalie, a single mom with an unschooling family;
myself, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. I've been a member for awhile, but
just recently bought a computer. I'm so excited to be able to
actually converse with everyone now!
We have been Unschoolers for a few years, and I am coming up against
some issues with my youngest son's other family. He is 4, will be 5
in August, and he lives with me during the week, and at his dad's on
weekends.
Now, this man, he is a person who doesn't engage in his children's
lives the way that I would wish for my son, but he still wants to
make the decisions about the biggies (healthcare, school, religion)
There are many many issues, but I will just throw this one out there
because I feel that it is the root of the situation.
We broke up July of 2005, and Ryan has been going to his dad's every
weekend, except maybe 3 or 4 times his dad was out of town on
business. Ryan has, from day one, NOT wanted to go to his dad's
house. he will ask me every day, many times a day, "where am I going
today? where am I going tomorrow? Can I stay here forever?" From the
beginning I have talked with him about it, listened to his feelings,
and been honest with him. I ask him why he doesn't want to go, and
he tells me that his dad is mean to him. His dad is a very
emotionally reserved guy; he is really a loner, and has little
understanding of the connective needs of the people who love him. He
is remarried, and has a stepson, 9, a daughter he has partial
custody of,9 and a 1 year old baby; they are expecting again in the
fall.
I explain to Ryan that his daddy loves him; sometimes he is grumpy
or upset, and he has trouble knowing what Ryan needs from him. I try
to help Ryan to express what he needs, like "dad, I just need a hug"
or "I'm hungry, tired, sad, etc."
(which makes me sad; that he has to be SO aware of his own needs,
that he cannot depend on them to meet these needs) There is very
little I can do on the dad front. His view is that Ryan should not
be allowed to "run the show"
Any unschooling literature I give him goes unread, and he
becomes beligerent if I try to "tell him how to parent his son"
His wife and I do communicate, we discuss the issues between Ryan
and his dad and she is open to the gentle and attachment parenting
styles, but her way, although loving, is jokey, a bit sarcastic, and
really just trying to cope with it all. Not very proactive.
I can't change them, I try to give as much feedback and influence as
they are receptive to- try not to make them feel as though I am
instructing them, but they just are not as emotionally connected to
their kids.
What I really want is for Ryan to get his needs met, and at this
point, I really need some good communication methods and coping
skills to bestow upon him, he needs me, and is asking me, for ways
to deal with the very different and kindof lonely life he has there.
I do not want a custody war, I think that would be far more
damaging, and I don't think it is conducive to the peace I am
striving to create and promote in the lives of our triad.
His new expression of the frustration he feels has been "mom, it's
not good for me to go back and forth between two houses" which I
think is very emotionally articulate for a 4 year old, but I can't
seem to give him any words of comfort, he just keeps saying it over
and over again. I mean, like, 10-15 times daily for at least two
weeks now. We talk about it, I tell him how I feel, how his dad
feels, ask him questions, and I am honest, I let him know that it
isn't my choice, which I don't think is helping, but I don't know
what else to say. (I really don't want to say, 'you cant always get
whatcha want!!' :)
Also, does anyone know how I can get maybe court ordered counseling
for the three, or more, of us? I just don't know how to reach this
man, that he is losing his son, without railroading him into
counseling, (he would absolutely not go on his own) I am just so sad
for my little guy, that he has to feel this way about his dad, that
I can't find the words, or actions, to help him. I mean, how can we
affect unwilling others' attitudes towards our children? Thanks.

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "natalijoi"
<natalijoi@...> wrote:
>> His new expression of the frustration he feels has been "mom,
it's
> not good for me to go back and forth between two houses" which I
> think is very emotionally articulate for a 4 year old, but I can't
> seem to give him any words of comfort, he just keeps saying it
over
> and over again.

Is his dad willing to switch to every other weekend? Or just one day
each weekend? Its worth asking. It *is* stressful to switch back and
forth between families. That was how we ended up on an ever-other-
weekend plan with Rayan, transitioning bewteen two vastly different
sets of expectations was excruciating for him. Kids do need a
certain amount of consistency in their environment - that may be a
point worth mentioning.

Wrt your ds - I wouldn't try to comfort him so much as to
acknowledge his unhappiness and support him in it: "I think you're
right. It *isn't* good to go back and forth. It makes you
feel...sad, frustrated, unheard," whatever you are understanding
from him. "I'm sorry. It make me feel that way too."

> Also, does anyone know how I can get maybe court ordered
counseling
> for the three, or more, of us?

I'd look into the availability of a counsellor who is supportive of
unschooling and/or non-authoritarian parenting before even
considering that. It won't do any of you any good to have a
resistant Ex *and* a counsellor who is trying to convince you to use
time-outs and set more rules!

If you do find a supportive counsellor, you might want to start with
just you and your son going for awhile. The important thing is to
find a way to help your son deal with the difficult emotional issues
*he* is experiencing.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Marge

I am also a single mom and I usually just lurk on this list. I have
six kids (15, 14, 12, 9, 5, and almost 3.) When I divorced their
father 2 years ago I insisted that the divorce decree state that none
of the children would be required to visit their father if they
didn't want to go. While my ex had a fit the judge said he did not
think that was unreasonable and put it in the order. : )

I mostly included it because of issues between my oldest son (now 14)
and his father but didn't specify just him at the time. All of the
kids have opted not to go at various times. I never wanted to have
to force them to go (and wouldn't have) and wanted to make sure they
had as much control in that as possible.

Whether this is an option possible for you (or whether you would want
it) I have no idea.

Forced counselling is rarely effective, even IF you could get it
ordersed and IF you could find one supportive of unschooling, etc...

I wish you the best of luck in resolving this situation.
Marge

Granted, my ex-husband has since been reduced to only supervised
visits because of his behavior/mouth (He is NPD--narcisistic
personality disorder.) The kids very much get to decide the level of
involvement they have with him.

I used to be more invested in making the relationship between the
kids and their father work. In retospect, more so than he was.
Although--- In [email protected], "natalijoi"
<natalijoi@...> wrote:
>
> Hello! I am Natalie, a single mom with an unschooling family;
> myself, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. I've been a member for awhile, but
> just recently bought a computer. I'm so excited to be able to
> actually converse with everyone now!
> We have been Unschoolers for a few years, and I am coming up
against
> some issues with my youngest son's other family. He is 4, will be 5
> in August, and he lives with me during the week, and at his dad's
on
> weekends.
> Now, this man, he is a person who doesn't engage in his children's
> lives the way that I would wish for my son, but he still wants to
> make the decisions about the biggies (healthcare, school, religion)
> There are many many issues, but I will just throw this one out
there
> because I feel that it is the root of the situation.
> We broke up July of 2005, and Ryan has been going to his dad's
every
> weekend, except maybe 3 or 4 times his dad was out of town on
> business. Ryan has, from day one, NOT wanted to go to his dad's
> house. he will ask me every day, many times a day, "where am I
going
> today? where am I going tomorrow? Can I stay here forever?" From
the
> beginning I have talked with him about it, listened to his
feelings,
> and been honest with him. I ask him why he doesn't want to go, and
> he tells me that his dad is mean to him. His dad is a very
> emotionally reserved guy; he is really a loner, and has little
> understanding of the connective needs of the people who love him.
He
> is remarried, and has a stepson, 9, a daughter he has partial
> custody of,9 and a 1 year old baby; they are expecting again in the
> fall.
> I explain to Ryan that his daddy loves him; sometimes he is grumpy
> or upset, and he has trouble knowing what Ryan needs from him. I
try
> to help Ryan to express what he needs, like "dad, I just need a
hug"
> or "I'm hungry, tired, sad, etc."
> (which makes me sad; that he has to be SO aware of his own needs,
> that he cannot depend on them to meet these needs) There is very
> little I can do on the dad front. His view is that Ryan should not
> be allowed to "run the show"
> Any unschooling literature I give him goes unread, and he
> becomes beligerent if I try to "tell him how to parent his son"
> His wife and I do communicate, we discuss the issues between Ryan
> and his dad and she is open to the gentle and attachment parenting
> styles, but her way, although loving, is jokey, a bit sarcastic,
and
> really just trying to cope with it all. Not very proactive.
> I can't change them, I try to give as much feedback and influence
as
> they are receptive to- try not to make them feel as though I am
> instructing them, but they just are not as emotionally connected to
> their kids.
> What I really want is for Ryan to get his needs met, and at this
> point, I really need some good communication methods and coping
> skills to bestow upon him, he needs me, and is asking me, for ways
> to deal with the very different and kindof lonely life he has
there.
> I do not want a custody war, I think that would be far more
> damaging, and I don't think it is conducive to the peace I am
> striving to create and promote in the lives of our triad.
> His new expression of the frustration he feels has been "mom, it's
> not good for me to go back and forth between two houses" which I
> think is very emotionally articulate for a 4 year old, but I can't
> seem to give him any words of comfort, he just keeps saying it over
> and over again. I mean, like, 10-15 times daily for at least two
> weeks now. We talk about it, I tell him how I feel, how his dad
> feels, ask him questions, and I am honest, I let him know that it
> isn't my choice, which I don't think is helping, but I don't know
> what else to say. (I really don't want to say, 'you cant always get
> whatcha want!!' :)
> Also, does anyone know how I can get maybe court ordered counseling
> for the three, or more, of us? I just don't know how to reach this
> man, that he is losing his son, without railroading him into
> counseling, (he would absolutely not go on his own) I am just so
sad
> for my little guy, that he has to feel this way about his dad, that
> I can't find the words, or actions, to help him. I mean, how can we
> affect unwilling others' attitudes towards our children? Thanks.
>

woodhaven_farm

Hi Natalie,

I am sorry that I do not have any words of wisdom for you, but I do
have empathy.
I too am a single mom to a ds (4). I left my abusive husband in 2004.
He has bounced in and out of ds life. I tried everything I could to
get him to connect or care about his children (he has a son (11) by a
previous marriage) when we were together. DS has never wanted to have
visitation either. He says that his daddy is mean and that he is
afraid. I am in the middle of my third custody battle in less then
three years, and despite my husband beating our child during his
first unsupervised visit, he still has visitation.

The court, nor the guardian ad litem (attorney appointed to represent
ds's best interests) have been interested in what ds feels, or
frankly, needs.

Last year I was having to drag my child out from underneath the bed
and forcing him to visit his dad - at a great cost to our
relationship (not to mention his development). When ds came home with
bruises, I could no longer force him to go. I now have a 90 day
suspending jail sentence - suspended as long as I force ds to go to
visitation.

Atleast now ds is better able to articulate and understand things,
but it breaks my heart when he cries and begs me to please not send
him to daddy. It takes everything I have to keep it together as I
watch ds scream, kick, and cry in anger and pain over his situation.
I will spare you the horrors of recent visitation, but I will say
that I am so outraged at how the legal system is failing our children.

If I thought my husband had even the slighest desire to know his
son, I would bend over backwards to help.

For now, all it seems that I can do is to love ds, listen to him, and
be there for him.

I will say that it has helped me to have a counselor and small
network of folks who care about me. Reading here and at always
unschooling really helps too. Ds has a counselor and I think she is
really helpful for him and me.

I wish there was some way to get the other parent in these cases to
see what they are missing and all the damage they are doing.

Good luck.

-- In [email protected], "natalijoi" <natalijoi@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello! I am Natalie, a single mom with an unschooling family;
> myself, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. I've been a member for awhile, but
> just recently bought a computer. I'm so excited to be able to
> actually converse with everyone now!
> We have been Unschoolers for a few years, and I am coming up
against
> some issues with my youngest son's other family. He is 4, will be 5
> in August, and he lives with me during the week, and at his dad's
on
> weekends.
> Now, this man, he is a person who doesn't engage in his children's
> lives the way that I would wish for my son, but he still wants to
> make the decisions about the biggies (healthcare, school, religion)
> There are many many issues, but I will just throw this one out
there
> because I feel that it is the root of the situation.
> We broke up July of 2005, and Ryan has been going to his dad's
every
> weekend, except maybe 3 or 4 times his dad was out of town on
> business. Ryan has, from day one, NOT wanted to go to his dad's
> house. he will ask me every day, many times a day, "where am I
going
> today? where am I going tomorrow? Can I stay here forever?" From
the
> beginning I have talked with him about it, listened to his
feelings,
> and been honest with him. I ask him why he doesn't want to go, and
> he tells me that his dad is mean to him. His dad is a very
> emotionally reserved guy; he is really a loner, and has little
> understanding of the connective needs of the people who love him.
He
> is remarried, and has a stepson, 9, a daughter he has partial
> custody of,9 and a 1 year old baby; they are expecting again in the
> fall.
> I explain to Ryan that his daddy loves him; sometimes he is grumpy
> or upset, and he has trouble knowing what Ryan needs from him. I
try
> to help Ryan to express what he needs, like "dad, I just need a
hug"
> or "I'm hungry, tired, sad, etc."
> (which makes me sad; that he has to be SO aware of his own needs,
> that he cannot depend on them to meet these needs) There is very
> little I can do on the dad front. His view is that Ryan should not
> be allowed to "run the show"
> Any unschooling literature I give him goes unread, and he
> becomes beligerent if I try to "tell him how to parent his son"
> His wife and I do communicate, we discuss the issues between Ryan
> and his dad and she is open to the gentle and attachment parenting
> styles, but her way, although loving, is jokey, a bit sarcastic,
and
> really just trying to cope with it all. Not very proactive.
> I can't change them, I try to give as much feedback and influence
as
> they are receptive to- try not to make them feel as though I am
> instructing them, but they just are not as emotionally connected to
> their kids.
> What I really want is for Ryan to get his needs met, and at this
> point, I really need some good communication methods and coping
> skills to bestow upon him, he needs me, and is asking me, for ways
> to deal with the very different and kindof lonely life he has
there.
> I do not want a custody war, I think that would be far more
> damaging, and I don't think it is conducive to the peace I am
> striving to create and promote in the lives of our triad.
> His new expression of the frustration he feels has been "mom, it's
> not good for me to go back and forth between two houses" which I
> think is very emotionally articulate for a 4 year old, but I can't
> seem to give him any words of comfort, he just keeps saying it over
> and over again. I mean, like, 10-15 times daily for at least two
> weeks now. We talk about it, I tell him how I feel, how his dad
> feels, ask him questions, and I am honest, I let him know that it
> isn't my choice, which I don't think is helping, but I don't know
> what else to say. (I really don't want to say, 'you cant always get
> whatcha want!!' :)
> Also, does anyone know how I can get maybe court ordered counseling
> for the three, or more, of us? I just don't know how to reach this
> man, that he is losing his son, without railroading him into
> counseling, (he would absolutely not go on his own) I am just so
sad
> for my little guy, that he has to feel this way about his dad, that
> I can't find the words, or actions, to help him. I mean, how can we
> affect unwilling others' attitudes towards our children? Thanks.
>

woodhaven_farm

It is really nice to hear from other single moms, just too bad to
hear about the unfortunate circumsances.

What state are you in that the judge would agree to let the children
have a say?

When my stepson was refusing to go see his mom, the judge chastised
us for letting an 8 year old make that kind of decision- we needed to
step up and show him who the parents where, you know?

Now that my ds is struggling so, the judge seemed obvious to his
suffering and even disregarded the letters from his counselors,
therapists, and physicians quantifying the damage (not to mention he
would not even allow their testimony)...

My soon to be ex husband was labeled as most likely manic
depressive, with antisocial personality disorder. The court appointed
psycholigical evaluater said he was most likely untreatable and posed
a serious threat to mother and children. He actually acted out for
the court how he planned to kill us, after beating me unconsious and
punting me around the yard with our 22 month old child in my arms. No
consequences.

This summer, he beat our child. No consequences.

The guardian ad litem actually told me that he would hate to do
anything where down the line ds could come to him and be upset about
depriving him of contact with his dad. The focus, here (VA) seems to
be on protecting the parents rights regardless of the consequences
for the child.


--- In [email protected], "Marge" <jorie6568@...>
wrote:
>
> I am also a single mom and I usually just lurk on this list. I
have
> six kids (15, 14, 12, 9, 5, and almost 3.) When I divorced their
> father 2 years ago I insisted that the divorce decree state that
none
> of the children would be required to visit their father if they
> didn't want to go. While my ex had a fit the judge said he did not
> think that was unreasonable and put it in the order. : )
>
> I mostly included it because of issues between my oldest son (now
14)
> and his father but didn't specify just him at the time. All of the
> kids have opted not to go at various times. I never wanted to have
> to force them to go (and wouldn't have) and wanted to make sure
they
> had as much control in that as possible.
>
> Whether this is an option possible for you (or whether you would
want
> it) I have no idea.
>
> Forced counselling is rarely effective, even IF you could get it
> ordersed and IF you could find one supportive of unschooling, etc...
>
> I wish you the best of luck in resolving this situation.
> Marge
>
> Granted, my ex-husband has since been reduced to only supervised
> visits because of his behavior/mouth (He is NPD--narcisistic
> personality disorder.) The kids very much get to decide the level
of
> involvement they have with him.
>
> I used to be more invested in making the relationship between the
> kids and their father work. In retospect, more so than he was.
> Although--- In [email protected], "natalijoi"
> <natalijoi@> wrote:
> >

Vickisue Gray

Sad to say, but the courts here are no better.
No protection for kids nor moms.

Wish i could be of more help.

woodhaven_farm <woodhaven_farm@...> wrote:
It is really nice to hear from other single moms, just too bad to
hear about the unfortunate circumsances.

What state are you in that the judge would agree to let the children
have a say?

When my stepson was refusing to go see his mom, the judge chastised
us for letting an 8 year old make that kind of decision- we needed to
step up and show him who the parents where, you know?

Now that my ds is struggling so, the judge seemed obvious to his
suffering and even disregarded the letters from his counselors,
therapists, and physicians quantifying the damage (not to mention he
would not even allow their testimony)...

My soon to be ex husband was labeled as most likely manic
depressive, with antisocial personality disorder. The court appointed
psycholigical evaluater said he was most likely untreatable and posed
a serious threat to mother and children. He actually acted out for
the court how he planned to kill us, after beating me unconsious and
punting me around the yard with our 22 month old child in my arms. No
consequences.

This summer, he beat our child. No consequences.

The guardian ad litem actually told me that he would hate to do
anything where down the line ds could come to him and be upset about
depriving him of contact with his dad. The focus, here (VA) seems to
be on protecting the parents rights regardless of the consequences
for the child.

--- In [email protected], "Marge" <jorie6568@...>
wrote:
>
> I am also a single mom and I usually just lurk on this list. I
have
> six kids (15, 14, 12, 9, 5, and almost 3.) When I divorced their
> father 2 years ago I insisted that the divorce decree state that
none
> of the children would be required to visit their father if they
> didn't want to go. While my ex had a fit the judge said he did not
> think that was unreasonable and put it in the order. : )
>
> I mostly included it because of issues between my oldest son (now
14)
> and his father but didn't specify just him at the time. All of the
> kids have opted not to go at various times. I never wanted to have
> to force them to go (and wouldn't have) and wanted to make sure
they
> had as much control in that as possible.
>
> Whether this is an option possible for you (or whether you would
want
> it) I have no idea.
>
> Forced counselling is rarely effective, even IF you could get it
> ordersed and IF you could find one supportive of unschooling, etc...
>
> I wish you the best of luck in resolving this situation.
> Marge
>
> Granted, my ex-husband has since been reduced to only supervised
> visits because of his behavior/mouth (He is NPD--narcisistic
> personality disorder.) The kids very much get to decide the level
of
> involvement they have with him.
>
> I used to be more invested in making the relationship between the
> kids and their father work. In retospect, more so than he was.
> Although--- In [email protected], "natalijoi"
> <natalijoi@> wrote:
> >






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