food waste

Katharine Wise

3 Mar 2007, at 4:16pm

How do others handle it when a child requests something to eat... and then doesn't eat it but wants something different a little while later?

My 4yo has been doing this quite a bit recently. This afternoon, he asked for raisins and a peanut-butter apple. Ate the raisins, decided he didn't want the apple (already prepared, and pb apple doesn't look so appetizing if you save it for long) but asked for a peanut-butter rice cake instead. What I did was to point out that I wasn't comfortable wasting food, encouraged him to have the apple instead, but when he really only wanted the rice-cake I did give it to him. I also suggested that when he asks for food, I would ask him to stop and really listen to his tummy and see if he really wanted it. He thought that was a good idea, but mainly, it appeared to me, because it coincided with my giving him the rice cake:-)

Anyway, wondering how others would have handled this.

Thanks,
Katharine

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Ren Allen

3 Mar 2007, at 6:55pm

~~How do others handle it when a child requests something to eat...
and then doesn't eat it but wants something different a little while
later?~~

Bite my tongue and put away the first food, giving them the second
request.:)
It's all part of their learning experiences. Think about what a
nutrition curriculum would cost and then breathe a sigh of relief that
the food isn't being "wasted" at all...just used for learning.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Katharine Wise

3 Mar 2007, at 9:05pm

I love it!

Do you really think he'll learn not to waste it, though?

Katharine

----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Think about what a

nutrition curriculum would cost and then breathe a sigh of relief that

the food isn't being "wasted" at all...just used for learning.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

3 Mar 2007, at 9:38pm

At 21:05 3/3/2007, you wrote:

>I love it!
>
>Do you really think he'll learn not to waste it, though?

For me, I would trust that he would learn all the important stuff he
needs to know from living a joyful life with his honest, loving
adviser by his side (that's you). In other words, I would trust that
he will, when he is ready to, make the connections about everything
(including the folly of wasting food). Until then, I have found it
to be very freeing to look at all the consumable resources (like
food, toilet paper, tape) as tools through which my son learns about
himself and his world. So what if an entire roll of toilet paper
goes to some other purpose than wiping butts? Or, a whole jar of
mustard gets used in some inedible concoction during an
"experiment"? Or any other resource, for that matter? I just go out
and buy another, and chalk it up to this joyful, unschooling life!

I highly doubt my son will be an adult who "wastes" food creating
weird experiments or uses up a whole roll of scotch tape making some
weird sculpture, but I bet he'll turn a benevolent eye on *his* child
when my grandchild wants to experiment with food or tastes something
and doesn't end up eating it or takes a new roll of paper towels
outside and tries to sop up the mud in the driveway with it just to
see what happens.

I figure that these kinds of messy culinary experiments are exactly
what we signed up for when we opted for an unschooling life! And,
trusting is the key!

(Truth be told, I really had to make a conscious shift in my attitude
when Liam was about 18 months old before I was able to let that stuff
go. Once I did, our lives got infinitely better!!)

Marji

P.S. There are some food items I'd rather not be used for
experiments, such as quarts of grade B organic maple syrup, either
'cause they're so expensive or they're hard to come by. Those items
are out of easy view. Almost everything else is fair game!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

3 Mar 2007, at 9:59pm

~~I love it!

Do you really think he'll learn not to waste it, though?~~

Since it's not really being "wasted", he won't have to learn that!!:;)

Seriously though, I DO make alternate suggestions when Jalen wants to
use strawberries (although he did make a strawberry concoction this
week, I just asked him to be a bit sparing with them) or other
expensive ingredients. We're on a tight budget at the moment and I am
definitely aware of being thrifty.

I don't make issue of food being "wasted" when someone is full...we
just feed it to someone else or the rat, or save it for later. Food is
MORE wasted by putting it into a body that doesn't want it! Oh, and we
compost, so I don't feel that anything is ever truly wasted, just used
differently.:)

Your child has a loving guide to help him discover all kinds of
information, including information about food. Children don't have the
same priorities that adults do, and they shouldn't! His job is to
explore the world, not worry about "wasting". Our job is to help them
do that with the least coercion possible.

Some kids change their minds a LOT. Try having a lot of ingredients
prepared and ready so he can pick and choose a concoction at any
moment (or just snack off a prepared tray).

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Pamela Sorooshian

4 Mar 2007, at 3:38am

On Mar 3, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> Some kids change their minds a LOT. Try having a lot of ingredients
> prepared and ready so he can pick and choose a concoction at any
> moment (or just snack off a prepared tray).

If it is an occasional thing - changing his mind - then I'd just
accommodate him.
If it is a common thing - when he asked for something, I'd suggest
some other possibilities, get him thinking before you go make it.
"Peanut Butter Apple? Or - do you think you might want PB on
something else? Maybe a rice cake? Or a banana?"

I would support him in thinking a little before the food appears,
rather than being inspired to consider other options when one option
is already in front of him.

-pam
Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

4 Mar 2007, at 11:14am

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:

>> Seriously though, I DO make alternate suggestions when Jalen

wants to

> use strawberries (although he did make a strawberry concoction this
> week, I just asked him to be a bit sparing with them) or other
> expensive ingredients. We're on a tight budget at the moment and I

> definitely aware of being thrifty.

We've struggled a bit with this recently since our budget has been
soooooo tight. Mo's been wanting to make Krabby Patties, but not eat
them, so we've been looking for alternatives - making them with
crackers, getting really cheap buns or rolls, cutting bread into
quarters so we can make "more" with less materials, especially the
cheese (she doesn't use meat, just cheese). Sometimes she'll make
them with paper or cloth, but she's really excited by the food
aspect.

I've been eating a lot of Krabby Patties - which has meant talking
with her about making them the way I want to eat them. Sometimes she
wants to experiment, though, so some end up in the compost.

The other night, right after dinner! she wanted to make a bunch of
KPs with crackers, but we were really low on cheese and didn't know
if there would be money for another couple days. We do okay with
planning our food-use, but the KP thing sometimes throws a kink in
the system. We made the mistake of starting out trying to convince
her to make them with paper - bad idea! the conversation was heading
south quickly. She started breaking crackers, and I got an idea and
suggested we play "KaratE" Sandy Cheeks style with the crackers,
since we could stretch those more easily than the cheese. That was
perfect, she and I played at whacking the crackers into crumbs and
then Mo played vacuum-cleaner-dog to suck/lick them off the counter.
It was hysterical! So a potentially yucky scene turned into a barrel
of laughs for me and Mo together.

Part of what made it all work out was *me* looking for an underlying
need, rather than focusing just on what Mo was saying she wanted.
She wanted to play/experiment with food *and* she wanted to do
something nice with/for her mom. Once I figured out how to connect
with those needs, the matter of the KPs fell by the wayside.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Cameron Parham

4 Mar 2007, at 3:14pm

I don't have much problem with kids changing their minds some. There will be some 'waste' of food as they learn what they like and how to hear what their bodies need and can hold. But there is a real problem for me with too many changes: it's too much work. I find that as we are struggling our way toward real freedom for all of us (ds age 7, dd age 10, ds age 13, and me, the middle-aged, tired single parent) that it's too much work for me to make everything they think of to eat, help all of them with all the ideas they have, model generous cleanup of everything, empathize, play, and work!! No surprise there. Even as I describe it and remember joyful days I can also hear the resentment in my voice. I have had to give myself permission to be tired, to refuse even reasonable requests if I can not say yes without severe stress, to need a break. This is a hard journey for me. I forget to take care of myself and we all suffer. But I know I must model that I am worthy of care
also, so sometimes I will reply to a changed food or activity request, " I am not able to do that right now. Go ahead and (get something else to eat, not requiring my help/ get out that paint set, whatever). When I can help I will." They may pout which is hard on me. I also have a hard time with fluid bedtimes, and here is why. As a single parent I used to get my much needed private time, to think, read, pay bills, meditate, pray, write, in the middle of the night or very early morning. Now my kids are choosing completely different schedules, so my 13 yo ds wants to stay up until 3:00 am and sleep until noon, while my 7 yo ds gets up at 7 or 8 after falling asleep in our family bed amongst the late-night family reading or video whenever he can. He is sleep deprived, I think but can not sleep late, never could. Then my dd, age 10 , says that the 13 yo gets 'private mom time' with me at night and the 7 yo gets it in the morning. Her schedule of preference is to sleep from
midnight to 10. She is never awake when the boys aren't around. And also a challenge: there are no more hours left to fulfill my needs for adult companionship or solitude. So how do I balance this? How did I get from food to sleep...I guess because I haven't learned how to balance all this. From: Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...>
To: Unschooling Basics <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2007 2:16:06 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] food waste

How do others handle it when a child requests something to eat... and then doesn't eat it but wants something different a little while later?

My 4yo has been doing this quite a bit recently. This afternoon, he asked for raisins and a peanut-butter apple. Ate the raisins, decided he didn't want the apple (already prepared, and pb apple doesn't look so appetizing if you save it for long) but asked for a peanut-butter rice cake instead. What I did was to point out that I wasn't comfortable wasting food, encouraged him to have the apple instead, but when he really only wanted the rice-cake I did give it to him. I also suggested that when he asks for food, I would ask him to stop and really listen to his tummy and see if he really wanted it. He thought that was a good idea, but mainly, it appeared to me, because it coincided with my giving him the rice cake:-)

Anyway, wondering how others would have handled this.

Thanks,
Katharine

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusines s.yahoo.com/ r-index

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riasplace3

4 Mar 2007, at 4:33pm

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Food is

> MORE wasted by putting it into a body that doesn't want it!

Really! I wish dh would *get* this. He was "programmed" in school to
clean his plate, so he will keep eating until it's all gone, whether he
wants it or not, then --ahem-- get sick. That IS a waste of food,
because even HE doesn't get any benefit from it. (and icky, too)
I believe it was Erma Bombeck who wrote about fussing over food...then
realizing that that's why refrigerators were invinted. Granted, some
things don't wait well, but even then, there's nearly always something
you can do...like Ren said, feed it to the rat!

Ria

Debra Rossing

5 Mar 2007, at 4:14pm

Depends - I'll often do smaller portions if I think he wants just a
taste of something fully prepared to get up again and make more if he
really loves it. A whole apple is a pretty big thing for a 4 yr old
tummy.

I'll also ask DS (he's almost 9) if he wants a drink of water while I
get him (whatever) it was - sometimes he was just thirsty but couldn't
differentiate it from hungry. Also, sometimes, I'll ask him to call his
tastebuds and double check how much of whatever it is they've asked for.
He pretends to dial a cellphone and talk with them - a useful tool when
he can't decide what it is he wants to eat also. He's been known to sit
at a table in a restaurant, hand to ear, talking to his tastebuds and
trying to decide what to order. We just wait for him and have the server
check back in a minute or two.

Your not comfortable with wasting food right now but you'll probably way
less comfortable dealing with food related issues (over eating, under
eating, etc) later on. At 4 yrs old, the 'idea' of a peanut butter
apples is great but the reality is that it is large and a handful (or
small packet) of raisins is big enough to be filling for a while.

Deb

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Cameron Parham

6 Mar 2007, at 9:34am

When my kids were little and and food waste really upset my husband (now ex) we'd just give the small child an empty plate. If he or she asked for an item we gave about 1or 2 teaspoons. If it was liked they could have more or ask for a different item. If not at least little was wasted. We did not try to get them to eat, just let them see us enjoying it. Little kids really don't need much food by adult (especially American) standards.

----- Original Message ----
From: Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 2:14:51 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:food waste

Depends - I'll often do smaller portions if I think he wants just a
taste of something fully prepared to get up again and make more if he
really loves it. A whole apple is a pretty big thing for a 4 yr old
tummy.

I'll also ask DS (he's almost 9) if he wants a drink of water while I
get him (whatever) it was - sometimes he was just thirsty but couldn't
differentiate it from hungry. Also, sometimes, I'll ask him to call his
tastebuds and double check how much of whatever it is they've asked for.
He pretends to dial a cellphone and talk with them - a useful tool when
he can't decide what it is he wants to eat also. He's been known to sit
at a table in a restaurant, hand to ear, talking to his tastebuds and
trying to decide what to order. We just wait for him and have the server
check back in a minute or two.

Your not comfortable with wasting food right now but you'll probably way
less comfortable dealing with food related issues (over eating, under
eating, etc) later on. At 4 yrs old, the 'idea' of a peanut butter
apples is great but the reality is that it is large and a handful (or
small packet) of raisins is big enough to be filling for a while.

Deb

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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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plaidpanties666

7 Mar 2007, at 9:29am

--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:

>Little kids really don't need much food by adult (especially
>American) standards.

With Mo, sometimes she eats "adult size" portions and other times
hardly anything. It always throws me for a loop for a day or two, I
get used to dishing up great big quantities and then *poof* suddenly
she's eating two bites and she's done - or the opposite, I get used to
giving her tiny portions and all of a sudden she wants more, and more,
and more! I know its related to her growth cycles - too bad there's no
advance warning :P

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)