anonymous request for help
Schuyler
I got sent this off list with permission to pass it on here.
If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the thoughts behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I have is a number of children who want to do different things and a husband who wants to have husband and wife time...well, if I pick one of the requests, does the tell the other members in my family that they are less important? I admit I do not know much about this approach, but I do want my children to feel loved and important. However, I do not want my sons thinking the world revolves around their needs. I may be able to give them what they want as a mother, but I do not want them to have culture shock in the future when their employer is not tending to their needs and wants or that his wife may not be so giving because she has other responsibilities. I know I need to read more info, but how do you handle these issues in the furture? Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or lifestyle go to college in the future? I would appreciate your input.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the thoughts behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I have is a number of children who want to do different things and a husband who wants to have husband and wife time...well, if I pick one of the requests, does the tell the other members in my family that they are less important? I admit I do not know much about this approach, but I do want my children to feel loved and important. However, I do not want my sons thinking the world revolves around their needs. I may be able to give them what they want as a mother, but I do not want them to have culture shock in the future when their employer is not tending to their needs and wants or that his wife may not be so giving because she has other responsibilities. I know I need to read more info, but how do you handle these issues in the furture? Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or lifestyle go to college in the future? I would appreciate your input.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hi Schuyler - I highly recommend you go the Yahoo website for this group and check under Files for the reading list. I recently purchased a book from the list called "The Unprocessed Child: Living Without School" . I had many of the same questions you bring up and I found this book to be immensely helpful and reassuring. Here is a link to the publisher's website as well. http://www.ubpub.com/unprocessedchild.html If you check the Yahoo group files though, there are a number of great selections on parenting and unschooling. Good luck! Paula
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Schuyler" <s.waynforth@...>
I got sent this off list with permission to pass it on here.
If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the thoughts behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I have is a number of children who want to do different things and a husband who wants to have husband and wife time...well, if I pick one of the requests, does the tell the other members in my family that they are less important? I admit I do not know much about this approach, but I do want my children to feel loved and important. However, I do not want my sons thinking the world revolves around their needs. I may be able to give them what they want as a mother, but I do not want them to have culture shock in the future when their employer is not tending to their needs and wants or that his wife may not be so giving because she has other responsibilities. I know I need to read more info, but how do you handle these issues in the furture? Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or lifestyle go to college in the future? I wo
uld appreciate your input.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Schuyler" <s.waynforth@...>
I got sent this off list with permission to pass it on here.
If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the thoughts behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I have is a number of children who want to do different things and a husband who wants to have husband and wife time...well, if I pick one of the requests, does the tell the other members in my family that they are less important? I admit I do not know much about this approach, but I do want my children to feel loved and important. However, I do not want my sons thinking the world revolves around their needs. I may be able to give them what they want as a mother, but I do not want them to have culture shock in the future when their employer is not tending to their needs and wants or that his wife may not be so giving because she has other responsibilities. I know I need to read more info, but how do you handle these issues in the furture? Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or lifestyle go to college in the future? I wo
uld appreciate your input.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Schuyler"
<s.waynforth@...> wrote:
written here and what we do at our house, is that *I* am not the one
who makes this decision. I may make offers and suggestions and help
brainstorm different solutions, but we all try to work together to
find ways to do the things we want to do.
Some days that's easier than others! But over time we have developed
a mutually supportive family relationship, rather than an
adversarial one. There isn't a sense of picking one person's needs
*over* another's. Everyone's needs are important, but sometimes we
all need to do some juggling and prioritizing and problem solving.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>Probably the most significant difference between what you have
> I got sent this off list with permission to pass it on here.
>
> If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the
>thoughts behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I
>have is a number of children who want to do different things and a
>husband who wants to have husband and wife time...well, if I pick
>one of the requests, does the tell the other members in my family
>that they are less important?
written here and what we do at our house, is that *I* am not the one
who makes this decision. I may make offers and suggestions and help
brainstorm different solutions, but we all try to work together to
find ways to do the things we want to do.
Some days that's easier than others! But over time we have developed
a mutually supportive family relationship, rather than an
adversarial one. There isn't a sense of picking one person's needs
*over* another's. Everyone's needs are important, but sometimes we
all need to do some juggling and prioritizing and problem solving.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Schuyler
It isn't me, I swear. We are the happiest of unschoolers on the block. I'm
not just sideways asking, really <g>.
Actually, here is what I wrote in response to the person who e-mailed me.
Maybe someone else will find it helpful:
You've got a lot of things going on there.
First is your concern about balancing everyone needs, and that can be an
issue however you approach parenting. What are the things that your children
want to do? Is there a way you can do two things at once, breastfeeding and
reading a story, building with lego while watching a movie, fixing dinner
and chatting or dancing to the radio, or spending that time chatting with
your husband. David and I cook in tandem a lot of the time. I do the
tortillas he makes the spanish rice. Lots of talking and touching and the
yummy aromas fill the room. Are there ways that you and your husband can
find spousal time that isn't completely about in the evening, after the kids
have gone to bed, sitting in the living room sort of thing? Can you get up
with him in the morning to hang out before he goes to work (if he is the
wage earner in the family)?
If you want to unschool, really, really want to get the unschooling mindset
and incorporate it into your life and your family's lives than you have to
find other ways to achieving certain goals. That means letting go of the
idea that adult time can only occur at certain times of day or that children
have to toughen up eventually otherwise how would they fit in the working
world. Unschooling takes a creative approach to life. It also takes you not
being the only person picking the requests. On the drive home from bike
riding today, when we'd all gotten cold, I suggested making hot chocolate.
We only had one packet of premix left, but we had all the fixings for
homemade. Simon volunteered letting Linnaea have the premix, which is her
preference, without being asked. I didn't have to choose who "won" that
time, they figured it out themselves. Unschooling takes being proactive,
like bringing food to someone who might be hungry or offering to help
someone when they are working through a frustrating level on a game, or
being sympathetic, or helping someone to be left alone when they are angry
or frustrated and the distraction will help them to erupt.
And to address your second question, if I'm too nice to my children how will
they learn that the world can be a harsh place to live so that they won't be
disappointed when they get there? What if because you were so nice to your
children they learned that they liked living in a nice world so they figured
out ways to enjoy their lives and relish the nice moments. What if they saw
you deal with adversity, hard things, which happen in my life and in yours,
I imagine, with an eye to finding the nice things, the good things, with you
trying to make the best out of the worst possible aspects of your life. We
are currently trying to live within a budget. That means that the grocery
shopping could be filled with stress and angst as we tend to overspend most
there. Last time we went there was a point when we'd clearly gone past our
budget, so Linnaea and I looked through the cart and picked out a couple of
high priced things and put them back. There was no stress, none. And when we
were done we were quite a way under the anticipated overspend. Diana Jenner,
who is on many of the unschooling lists, had her daughter die to leukemia a
year ago. She lost her husband to cancer 8 years ago, I think. There is no
way that her son, Hayden, will ever believe that because Diana is nice to
her the world isn't full of adversity. But what he will know is that
adversity can be survived and that you don't have to feel miserable every
moment to grieve. And that this moment, right now, it is the best possible
moment to live and to be who and how you want to be.
For the third question, can unschoolers go to college? Yes, I know that
Sandra Dodd's son Kirby has taken a few classes at community college. At
least one of Pam Sooroshian's daughters is at university now. Joyce
Fetteroll's daughter, who isn't 18 yet, is taking college classes. Peter
Kowalke, who was unschooled, has been and gone to college, his webpage is
here: http://www.peterkowalke.com/ . I am a high school dropout and I have a
master's degree. People from many different backgrounds get into university.
I don't know if Simon or Linnaea will ever attend university. That is a long
way away. But I have no doubt that if what they want to do includes spending
some time at university, and they want to follow that dream enough, they
will go to university. I think that is the difference with an unschooled
child, university isn't an end in and of itself. I went to university to
find out what I wanted to be. I don't think that will be Simon's or
Linnaea's experience.
One of the things that helps me when I feel like I'm not living unschooling
well, or that unschooling isn't the way forward, is to stop and think about
what I want my life to be like. I want my children to be happy, to feel safe
and good and to be happy. I want them to enjoy being with me. I don't need
them to enjoy each other, I can't dictate their relationships with other
people, but I can do a lot to try and make them feel good about how they get
along with me. I think joy is an amazing gift that I can help them to
access. And when I think about that, say after I've yelled at them and I'm
sitting deciding if I want to feel justified in my rage, I breathe better
and I let go of that anger and I see them as people who I enjoy being with
and who I want to help get through whatever it was that they are struggling
with.
I would strongly recommend that you post your questions to
unschooling_basics or unschooling discussion. I only have two children so
may not be particularly good at helping you to work through any of your
issues with juggling more. My husband is home a lot of the time, and while
we both miss time together sometimes, we are pretty good at getting time
together. If you want me to post your questions anonymously, I'll happily do
that. No one on the lists wants to do anything but help you get to a place
where you can unschool. I know the lists can be intense, but it helps if you
imagine that the people are speaking to you as nicely as they can speak and
that they are trying to help.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
not just sideways asking, really <g>.
Actually, here is what I wrote in response to the person who e-mailed me.
Maybe someone else will find it helpful:
You've got a lot of things going on there.
First is your concern about balancing everyone needs, and that can be an
issue however you approach parenting. What are the things that your children
want to do? Is there a way you can do two things at once, breastfeeding and
reading a story, building with lego while watching a movie, fixing dinner
and chatting or dancing to the radio, or spending that time chatting with
your husband. David and I cook in tandem a lot of the time. I do the
tortillas he makes the spanish rice. Lots of talking and touching and the
yummy aromas fill the room. Are there ways that you and your husband can
find spousal time that isn't completely about in the evening, after the kids
have gone to bed, sitting in the living room sort of thing? Can you get up
with him in the morning to hang out before he goes to work (if he is the
wage earner in the family)?
If you want to unschool, really, really want to get the unschooling mindset
and incorporate it into your life and your family's lives than you have to
find other ways to achieving certain goals. That means letting go of the
idea that adult time can only occur at certain times of day or that children
have to toughen up eventually otherwise how would they fit in the working
world. Unschooling takes a creative approach to life. It also takes you not
being the only person picking the requests. On the drive home from bike
riding today, when we'd all gotten cold, I suggested making hot chocolate.
We only had one packet of premix left, but we had all the fixings for
homemade. Simon volunteered letting Linnaea have the premix, which is her
preference, without being asked. I didn't have to choose who "won" that
time, they figured it out themselves. Unschooling takes being proactive,
like bringing food to someone who might be hungry or offering to help
someone when they are working through a frustrating level on a game, or
being sympathetic, or helping someone to be left alone when they are angry
or frustrated and the distraction will help them to erupt.
And to address your second question, if I'm too nice to my children how will
they learn that the world can be a harsh place to live so that they won't be
disappointed when they get there? What if because you were so nice to your
children they learned that they liked living in a nice world so they figured
out ways to enjoy their lives and relish the nice moments. What if they saw
you deal with adversity, hard things, which happen in my life and in yours,
I imagine, with an eye to finding the nice things, the good things, with you
trying to make the best out of the worst possible aspects of your life. We
are currently trying to live within a budget. That means that the grocery
shopping could be filled with stress and angst as we tend to overspend most
there. Last time we went there was a point when we'd clearly gone past our
budget, so Linnaea and I looked through the cart and picked out a couple of
high priced things and put them back. There was no stress, none. And when we
were done we were quite a way under the anticipated overspend. Diana Jenner,
who is on many of the unschooling lists, had her daughter die to leukemia a
year ago. She lost her husband to cancer 8 years ago, I think. There is no
way that her son, Hayden, will ever believe that because Diana is nice to
her the world isn't full of adversity. But what he will know is that
adversity can be survived and that you don't have to feel miserable every
moment to grieve. And that this moment, right now, it is the best possible
moment to live and to be who and how you want to be.
For the third question, can unschoolers go to college? Yes, I know that
Sandra Dodd's son Kirby has taken a few classes at community college. At
least one of Pam Sooroshian's daughters is at university now. Joyce
Fetteroll's daughter, who isn't 18 yet, is taking college classes. Peter
Kowalke, who was unschooled, has been and gone to college, his webpage is
here: http://www.peterkowalke.com/ . I am a high school dropout and I have a
master's degree. People from many different backgrounds get into university.
I don't know if Simon or Linnaea will ever attend university. That is a long
way away. But I have no doubt that if what they want to do includes spending
some time at university, and they want to follow that dream enough, they
will go to university. I think that is the difference with an unschooled
child, university isn't an end in and of itself. I went to university to
find out what I wanted to be. I don't think that will be Simon's or
Linnaea's experience.
One of the things that helps me when I feel like I'm not living unschooling
well, or that unschooling isn't the way forward, is to stop and think about
what I want my life to be like. I want my children to be happy, to feel safe
and good and to be happy. I want them to enjoy being with me. I don't need
them to enjoy each other, I can't dictate their relationships with other
people, but I can do a lot to try and make them feel good about how they get
along with me. I think joy is an amazing gift that I can help them to
access. And when I think about that, say after I've yelled at them and I'm
sitting deciding if I want to feel justified in my rage, I breathe better
and I let go of that anger and I see them as people who I enjoy being with
and who I want to help get through whatever it was that they are struggling
with.
I would strongly recommend that you post your questions to
unschooling_basics or unschooling discussion. I only have two children so
may not be particularly good at helping you to work through any of your
issues with juggling more. My husband is home a lot of the time, and while
we both miss time together sometimes, we are pretty good at getting time
together. If you want me to post your questions anonymously, I'll happily do
that. No one on the lists wants to do anything but help you get to a place
where you can unschool. I know the lists can be intense, but it helps if you
imagine that the people are speaking to you as nicely as they can speak and
that they are trying to help.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <TheLerews@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] anonymous request for help
> Hi Schuyler - I highly recommend you go the Yahoo website for this group
> and check under Files for the reading list. I recently purchased a book
> from the list called "The Unprocessed Child: Living Without School" . I
> had many of the same questions you bring up and I found this book to be
> immensely helpful and reassuring. Here is a link to the publisher's
> website as well. http://www.ubpub.com/unprocessedchild.html If you check
> the Yahoo group files though, there are a number of great selections on
> parenting and unschooling. Good luck! Paula
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Schuyler" <s.waynforth@...>
> I got sent this off list with permission to pass it on here.
>
> If you do not mind me asking, I am very curious about some of the thoughts
> behind unschooling and this type of "parenting." What I have is a number
> of children who want to do different things and a husband who wants to
> have husband and wife time...well, if I pick one of the requests, does the
> tell the other members in my family that they are less important? I admit
> I do not know much about this approach, but I do want my children to feel
> loved and important. However, I do not want my sons thinking the world
> revolves around their needs. I may be able to give them what they want as
> a mother, but I do not want them to have culture shock in the future when
> their employer is not tending to their needs and wants or that his wife
> may not be so giving because she has other responsibilities. I know I need
> to read more info, but how do you handle these issues in the furture?
> Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or
> lifestyle go to college in the future? I wo
> uld appreciate your input.
>
> Thanks for any help you can offer.
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Joyce Fetteroll
> well, if I pick one of the requests, does the tell the otherOnly if they feel they need to compete for a limited quantity.
> members in my family that they are less important?
If they feel that your goal is to help them get what they want, then
being the one who gets it first isn't as important.
That shift in how they view you isn't something that happens
instantly. It comes over time as they gain confidence from your
actions of working to meet their needs. When they know fully -- from
past actions -- that their needs are important to you, then they'll
be more willing to wait for you to have the opportunity to help them.
But if they feel that mom's help is limited, then they will compete
to get it just as people compete to get anything that's rationed.
One thing that many mothers suffer is the need to be the fixer of
problems. And kids' requests can feel like: Drop what you're doing
and fix this right now. But part of the mental shift is seeing
yourself as a facilitator, helping kids get what they need rather
than taking on the burden of their problem and solving it for them,
if you can see the subtle difference.
The actions may end up looking the same, but the change is a shift in
attitude.
For instance, if a child has saved up enough money for a new video
game and says "Mom, I need to go get this game. It came out today."
The fixer of problems will think "Oh, geez, another thing added to my
list of things to do." The facilitator will say, "Okay, let's look at
the schedule. Here's what we have to do today. Let's see where we can
work that in."
> However, I do not want my sons thinking the world revolves aroundThey can't. Life has a way of teaching them that. Other people will
> their needs.
say no to them. Life won't always work out the way they want it to.
What you can, though, do is let them know that you're on their team.
That you're there to help them get what they want from the world.
(Note, though, that part of what they want is to be a part of society
so part of helping them is finding solutions that respect others
needs as well.)
> but how do you handle these issues in the furture?They don't arise. People who are treated with respect, treat others
with respect. It's almost as simple as that :-)
(Which isn't to say that kids raised this way are perfect angels ;-)
Sometimes kids forget. Sometimes they get caught up in their own
needs. Sometimes they don't see the big picture. But it helps
enormously to see those times as honest mistakes. They're just
learning. They *will* get it wrong sometimes. And it helps enormously
to not treat them as though the mistake is a deliberate one done out
of meanness. Treat them as though they are doing the best they can
with the skills and knowledge and understanding of themselves and the
world that they have in the moment.)
The only caveat I'd throw in there is treating ourselves with respect
also. Working our own needs into our help without demanding that
others respect our needs. It's up to us to respect our own needs.
(Which is where the "doormat moms" go wrong.)
It's a tricky balance trying to figure out our own needs. Most of us
grew up with the implied promise that when we were grownups it would
be our turn to "get our way". Adulthood would be when we could do
whatever we wanted. That was a big lie of course and we can find it
feels like we're in a war trying to fight for our right to do what we
want, to the point that we increase others unhappiness to try to make
ourselves happy. :-/
As an example, if a child comes up and says at 10PM "I want some ice
cream and Sasha just ate the last of it." The fixer of problems might
feel the right thing to do is go out to the store at 10PM, and then
feel guilty that they don't want to, and then angry that a child
would even put them in the position of being the bad guy who wants to
say 'No, I'm not taking you to the store right now.'" We don't need
to set our need to go to bed aside. We can, though, say "I wish we
had some more. Let's put it on the list and get some tomorrow. [Or
whatever is reasonable in a particular family's circumstances.] If we
can get moving in time, we might be able to have ice cream for
breakfast! But in the meantime, let's see what else is available."
And try to find something that's even better.
That might only have partial success at the beginning with kids who
are used to competing with each other for whatever is limited. But
over time, as kids gain confidence that their needs are important to
you and that you are working at meeting them even if you can't right
now, they will be more willing to accept substitutes for now and delays.
There are a lot of typical questions answered at:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Someone commented on this page of Sandra's, one which I hadn't stumbled
across before. There is an understanding about how unschooling can change
your perspective on all school, including university, that might help you to
understand why it is no longer a part of my vision for Simon's or Linnaea's
life. Not that I would discourage them from going to university, but I don't
see it as a necessary part of their lives.
Anyhow, the page is here: http://sandradodd.com/peace/newview
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
across before. There is an understanding about how unschooling can change
your perspective on all school, including university, that might help you to
understand why it is no longer a part of my vision for Simon's or Linnaea's
life. Not that I would discourage them from going to university, but I don't
see it as a necessary part of their lives.
Anyhow, the page is here: http://sandradodd.com/peace/newview
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
> Also, how does a child that was raised in with the "unschooling" theory or
> lifestyle go to college in the future?