Studies on "late" readers...
Genevieve Labonte
Hi,
How, I don't want to start a debate or anything here *smile*
I'm actually looking for research/studies/anything legally acceptable
about late readers. I've been doing some reasearch about later
readers, because we're debating "equivalency" of learning between
School/home for some legal issues. I want something to back upon that
natural learning does exist (can't find anything about that! even less
in french!) and that natural learning usually happens between 3 and 10.
(or something like that). I've had a neuropsychologist (not sure if
it's the same in english!) back me up, but not in written about this.
All I can find are studies that say that reading is not something that
comes naturally, early reading is best, bla bla bla... yuk! (but they
also add that otherwise kids have problems in school) yeah, right...
NOT what I'm looking for.
So, if anyone has any studies/web sites that can back up natural
learning, can you please forward them to me?? fihz@...
Thanks a lot,
Genevieve, mom to 4 boys,
Felix-9-, Jonathan-7-, Xavier and Robin-5-
<http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How, I don't want to start a debate or anything here *smile*
I'm actually looking for research/studies/anything legally acceptable
about late readers. I've been doing some reasearch about later
readers, because we're debating "equivalency" of learning between
School/home for some legal issues. I want something to back upon that
natural learning does exist (can't find anything about that! even less
in french!) and that natural learning usually happens between 3 and 10.
(or something like that). I've had a neuropsychologist (not sure if
it's the same in english!) back me up, but not in written about this.
All I can find are studies that say that reading is not something that
comes naturally, early reading is best, bla bla bla... yuk! (but they
also add that otherwise kids have problems in school) yeah, right...
NOT what I'm looking for.
So, if anyone has any studies/web sites that can back up natural
learning, can you please forward them to me?? fihz@...
Thanks a lot,
Genevieve, mom to 4 boys,
Felix-9-, Jonathan-7-, Xavier and Robin-5-
<http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:41 AM, Genevieve Labonte wrote:
know there are some countries that don't start reading instruction
until later. (Was it 8 in Sweden maybe?)
Other than that, all later reading kids -- except for unschoolers --
will be exposed to some pressure to read. And that pressure will have
negative effects on their perceptions of themselves and their
attraction to reading. Researchers just aren't aware that the effects
of late reading aren't caused by late reading but caused by pressure
and expectations. How could they know? All the children they know are
in the exact same (school) environment. It's like questioning the
effects wearing clothes has on learning ;-)
You could try doing an informal survey among unschoolers, asking
about age they learned to read and how well older kids can read. I
don't know where my daughter would fit into such a survey. I'm not
even sure when she decoded the reading code because she chose not to
read because she said it was difficult. She read Harry Potter out
loud to us at 10 and it sounded wonderfully natural, but it wasn't
until she was 13 that she picked up a novel on her own to read for
pleasure.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm actually looking for research/studies/anything legally acceptableYou might try researching other countries and their reading rates. I
> about late readers.
know there are some countries that don't start reading instruction
until later. (Was it 8 in Sweden maybe?)
Other than that, all later reading kids -- except for unschoolers --
will be exposed to some pressure to read. And that pressure will have
negative effects on their perceptions of themselves and their
attraction to reading. Researchers just aren't aware that the effects
of late reading aren't caused by late reading but caused by pressure
and expectations. How could they know? All the children they know are
in the exact same (school) environment. It's like questioning the
effects wearing clothes has on learning ;-)
You could try doing an informal survey among unschoolers, asking
about age they learned to read and how well older kids can read. I
don't know where my daughter would fit into such a survey. I'm not
even sure when she decoded the reading code because she chose not to
read because she said it was difficult. She read Harry Potter out
loud to us at 10 and it sounded wonderfully natural, but it wasn't
until she was 13 that she picked up a novel on her own to read for
pleasure.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
A starter source for researching other countries would be Jim Trelease's The Read-Aloud Handbook. I know he talks about that and I also know he has a bibliography, but I haven't looked to see what his references are on that issue.
When my oldest ds wasn't reading yet, and I wasn't concerned but also wanted to be sure I wasn't just being dismissive, I explicitly asked on a homeschooling list (a large closed list, not explicitly unschooling, although many on the list are) if anybody felt in hind-sight that they should have gotten reading help, that they'd waited too late, and nobody did. I didn't have a legal issue to deal with, but that did give me reassurance to offer grandparents besides just my own personal conviction.
Katharine
You might try researching other countries and their reading rates. I
know there are some countries that don't start reading instruction
until later. (Was it 8 in Sweden maybe?)
Other than that, all later reading kids -- except for unschoolers --
will be exposed to some pressure to read.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When my oldest ds wasn't reading yet, and I wasn't concerned but also wanted to be sure I wasn't just being dismissive, I explicitly asked on a homeschooling list (a large closed list, not explicitly unschooling, although many on the list are) if anybody felt in hind-sight that they should have gotten reading help, that they'd waited too late, and nobody did. I didn't have a legal issue to deal with, but that did give me reassurance to offer grandparents besides just my own personal conviction.
Katharine
You might try researching other countries and their reading rates. I
know there are some countries that don't start reading instruction
until later. (Was it 8 in Sweden maybe?)
Other than that, all later reading kids -- except for unschoolers --
will be exposed to some pressure to read.
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Schuyler
I know Paula Rothermel has data on late readers in her sample of
home-educated individuals in the UK. She has a webpage at
http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.rothermel/ that you can explore. There is a
reference to reader outcomes under the heading Reading here:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.rothermel/Research/Newspaper/ednow.htm
If you want more of her data there is, I think, a way to contact her via
that website. I know she also has worked as an expert witness in the UK, so
may have something to offer you on that front as well.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
home-educated individuals in the UK. She has a webpage at
http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.rothermel/ that you can explore. There is a
reference to reader outcomes under the heading Reading here:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.rothermel/Research/Newspaper/ednow.htm
If you want more of her data there is, I think, a way to contact her via
that website. I know she also has worked as an expert witness in the UK, so
may have something to offer you on that front as well.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genevieve Labonte" <fihz@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Studies on "late" readers...
>
> I'm actually looking for research/studies/anything legally acceptable
> about late readers. I've been doing some reasearch about later
> readers, because we're debating "equivalency" of learning between
> School/home for some legal issues.
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
It might also be useful to look at adult-ed sources - success rates
of adult literacy programs might be a useful piece of information.
I sent this already to the OP - don't know why I didn't just post it
to the whole group - there's a book called *Literacy Through Play*
by Gretchen Owocki that *I* found really useful, even though its all
about school-kids, not home/unschoolers. One of the aspects I really
liked about it, though, was the focus on literacy in a more
wholistic sense than reading + writing.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
>> You might try researching other countries and their readingrates. I
> know there are some countries that don't start readinginstruction
> until later. (Was it 8 in Sweden maybe?)I think Israel may be another.
It might also be useful to look at adult-ed sources - success rates
of adult literacy programs might be a useful piece of information.
I sent this already to the OP - don't know why I didn't just post it
to the whole group - there's a book called *Literacy Through Play*
by Gretchen Owocki that *I* found really useful, even though its all
about school-kids, not home/unschoolers. One of the aspects I really
liked about it, though, was the focus on literacy in a more
wholistic sense than reading + writing.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: katharinewise@...
A starter source for researching other countries would be Jim
Trelease's The
Read-Aloud Handbook. I know he talks about that and I also know he has
a
bibliography, but I haven't looked to see what his references are on
that issue.
-=-=-=-
I like that book as far as reading goes, but he's VERY anti-TV and
gaming.
Too bad.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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From: katharinewise@...
A starter source for researching other countries would be Jim
Trelease's The
Read-Aloud Handbook. I know he talks about that and I also know he has
a
bibliography, but I haven't looked to see what his references are on
that issue.
-=-=-=-
I like that book as far as reading goes, but he's VERY anti-TV and
gaming.
Too bad.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Katharine Wise
There are also some "free schools" that have allowed children to learn to read on their own schedule. Chris Mercogliano is the principal (?) of the Albany Free School in NY and author of several books including Teaching the Restless: One School's Remarkable No-Ritalin Approach to Helping Children Learn and Succeed. I remember he addresses the issue of not pushing children to read early in one chapter, and shares stories from his own school plus famous people. If you really want to track down data, contacting his school or another like it might be a good source.
Katharine
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Katharine
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