OT consequences and Saudi Arabia
Laura Beaudin
Hi,
Sorry but I lost your last email so I hope I don't fall too far off
target, I'm working from memory.
Anyhow, who ever said that Saudi women are imprisoned? I'm amazed at
how the West perceives women over here, especially when that
stereotype couldn't be further from the truth. Segregation and
seclusion are two different matters.
THhose who can afford it (which is quite a few) have their personnal
drivers to take them where they want. THose who can't either ride with
a friend or take a cab. They have the option to go shopping or
visiting their friends/relatives whenever they want. There are many
things that a women here could do to pass her time...almost as many
things as you could do to pass your time. From swimming and working
out (at all-female centers) to collecting things, cross stitching and
reading, They however chose to spend their time passively in front of
the TV. There's lots I can say about my observations here but I'll
wait till I'm in Canada first.
Saudi Arabia is a LOT more modern than most people give it credit for.
Do you know that I don't even need to sign up for an internet account?
I simply access the dial-up number and it's credited to my phone bill
(unfortunately, we have to pay for local calls here. It's a lot easier
here to get a chip for a cell phone than it ever was in the US or
Canada.
Again, I'm not going to talk about the negatives for now but they are
not the things that you would expect. If you think about it, ask me
about it in July and I'll tell you.
As for conforting a child, is it really a good idea to confort a child
with TV?I sincerely want to know because of the following. Let's say
that instead of TV, the child seeks food for confort? This is how
emotionally eating begins..I know because I've been battling food
addiction my whole life. Will you step in before it becomes a problem
or let it get out of control? I'd like to know your opinion and the
unschooling opinion in general regarding this.
Don't take this as an attack, I simply would like to know what happens
when a confor turns into a potentially self-sabbotageing behavior.
Laura
http://www.homeschooling.co.nr
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
Sorry but I lost your last email so I hope I don't fall too far off
target, I'm working from memory.
Anyhow, who ever said that Saudi women are imprisoned? I'm amazed at
how the West perceives women over here, especially when that
stereotype couldn't be further from the truth. Segregation and
seclusion are two different matters.
THhose who can afford it (which is quite a few) have their personnal
drivers to take them where they want. THose who can't either ride with
a friend or take a cab. They have the option to go shopping or
visiting their friends/relatives whenever they want. There are many
things that a women here could do to pass her time...almost as many
things as you could do to pass your time. From swimming and working
out (at all-female centers) to collecting things, cross stitching and
reading, They however chose to spend their time passively in front of
the TV. There's lots I can say about my observations here but I'll
wait till I'm in Canada first.
Saudi Arabia is a LOT more modern than most people give it credit for.
Do you know that I don't even need to sign up for an internet account?
I simply access the dial-up number and it's credited to my phone bill
(unfortunately, we have to pay for local calls here. It's a lot easier
here to get a chip for a cell phone than it ever was in the US or
Canada.
Again, I'm not going to talk about the negatives for now but they are
not the things that you would expect. If you think about it, ask me
about it in July and I'll tell you.
As for conforting a child, is it really a good idea to confort a child
with TV?I sincerely want to know because of the following. Let's say
that instead of TV, the child seeks food for confort? This is how
emotionally eating begins..I know because I've been battling food
addiction my whole life. Will you step in before it becomes a problem
or let it get out of control? I'd like to know your opinion and the
unschooling opinion in general regarding this.
Don't take this as an attack, I simply would like to know what happens
when a confor turns into a potentially self-sabbotageing behavior.
Laura
http://www.homeschooling.co.nr
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
Ren Allen
~~Saudi Arabia is a LOT more modern than most people give it credit for.~~
I think that's exactly why we're questioning your attitude that the
country has been "brought to it's knees" by television.
My Grandfather worked in Saudi when I was a kid. I have family and
friends that have lived in Turkey (also more westernized) and traveled
through that region extensively. Just had a big discussion with
someone because they were lumping Saudi in with the likes of Taliban
ruled Afghanistan the other day......two different worlds!
I disagree with your attitudes about tv and how it's affecting the
country. Television is going to have a very different effect in an
area where there is more oppression though, can't really equate it to
an unschooled child living in America.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
I think that's exactly why we're questioning your attitude that the
country has been "brought to it's knees" by television.
My Grandfather worked in Saudi when I was a kid. I have family and
friends that have lived in Turkey (also more westernized) and traveled
through that region extensively. Just had a big discussion with
someone because they were lumping Saudi in with the likes of Taliban
ruled Afghanistan the other day......two different worlds!
I disagree with your attitudes about tv and how it's affecting the
country. Television is going to have a very different effect in an
area where there is more oppression though, can't really equate it to
an unschooled child living in America.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
Segregation and
seclusion are two different matters.
*****
No, by definition, segregation can't happen without seclusion, and being disallowed from driving or choosing one's style of dress in public are specific methods of limiting one's movements, which equals imprisonment. I stand by my use of that word.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seclusion are two different matters.
*****
No, by definition, segregation can't happen without seclusion, and being disallowed from driving or choosing one's style of dress in public are specific methods of limiting one's movements, which equals imprisonment. I stand by my use of that word.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 11, 2007, at 3:29 PM, Laura Beaudin wrote:
Just because there aren't metal bars, doesn't mean it isn't a prison.
The things you listed don't sound like fulfilling things. They sound
like things to while away the time. And it sounds like society sees
it as a good thing for women to have the leisure to "pass time".
Raising kids can be fulfilling, but I think women need to feel the
work they do with their kids is not only valuable but essential.
Would you say that's how they feel?
Do they have opportunities where they know they are valuable and
essential? That if they were to leave, that it would be very
difficult to find someone else to do what they'd been doing?
Can women choose without repercussions from family and society to
find fulfillment in a career or to not marry or not have children?
Without the freedom to choose, there is no choice. The less choice
there is, the more it feels like prison.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Anyhow, who ever said that Saudi women are imprisoned? I'm amazed atand
> how the West perceives women over here
> There are manyPassing time *is* what people do in prison.
> things that a women here could do to pass her time
Just because there aren't metal bars, doesn't mean it isn't a prison.
The things you listed don't sound like fulfilling things. They sound
like things to while away the time. And it sounds like society sees
it as a good thing for women to have the leisure to "pass time".
Raising kids can be fulfilling, but I think women need to feel the
work they do with their kids is not only valuable but essential.
Would you say that's how they feel?
Do they have opportunities where they know they are valuable and
essential? That if they were to leave, that it would be very
difficult to find someone else to do what they'd been doing?
Can women choose without repercussions from family and society to
find fulfillment in a career or to not marry or not have children?
Without the freedom to choose, there is no choice. The less choice
there is, the more it feels like prison.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 11, 2007, at 3:29 PM, Laura Beaudin wrote:
control over. Like the stress of school, for instance. They do this
on their own without parents to help them. (Of course the parents are
part of the source of the stress since they're making kids go to
school!)
The primary goal should be removing the stress.
I don't see a problem with choosing TV for comfort when it seems like
the right thing to do. If a child came home disappointed from a
disagreement with a friend, a snuggle under the covers with mom while
watching a favorite movie could be just the ticket.
But your fears of TV might read into that as using TV as a panacea to
all problems. No, the goal is to look at the child and help the child
get what he wants and needs, not to look for a solution to paste onto
any problem that comes along.
see one instance as the beginning of the road to hell.
Emotional eating doesn't come from a cup of hot chocolate drunk after
a nightmare. It comes from not having help finding solutions to
stress and other problems.
core of your being that she'd be there to help you and support you
without judgement no matter what?
help people move in that direction to keep using a solution that's
only whitewashing the real problem. The goal is to get to the real
problem and help kids find solutions that really work.
It's much easier to explain with real problems. Theoretical and made
up problems aren't very illuminating because we can't dig underneath
the behavior to get to the whys. And that's where the real solutions
lie.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> As for conforting a child, is it really a good idea to confort a childSome children *choose* TV as a comfort for stresses they have no
> with TV?
control over. Like the stress of school, for instance. They do this
on their own without parents to help them. (Of course the parents are
part of the source of the stress since they're making kids go to
school!)
The primary goal should be removing the stress.
I don't see a problem with choosing TV for comfort when it seems like
the right thing to do. If a child came home disappointed from a
disagreement with a friend, a snuggle under the covers with mom while
watching a favorite movie could be just the ticket.
But your fears of TV might read into that as using TV as a panacea to
all problems. No, the goal is to look at the child and help the child
get what he wants and needs, not to look for a solution to paste onto
any problem that comes along.
> Let's sayAnd I think it's helpful to see an over all pattern rather than to
> that instead of TV, the child seeks food for confort? This is how
> emotionally eating begins..
see one instance as the beginning of the road to hell.
Emotional eating doesn't come from a cup of hot chocolate drunk after
a nightmare. It comes from not having help finding solutions to
stress and other problems.
> I know because I've been battling foodDid your mom help you with problems in your life? Did you know to the
> addiction my whole life.
core of your being that she'd be there to help you and support you
without judgement no matter what?
> Don't take this as an attack, I simply would like to know what happensWhen the goal is to help our kids be happy, then it isn't going to
> when a confor turns into a potentially self-sabbotageing behavior.
help people move in that direction to keep using a solution that's
only whitewashing the real problem. The goal is to get to the real
problem and help kids find solutions that really work.
It's much easier to explain with real problems. Theoretical and made
up problems aren't very illuminating because we can't dig underneath
the behavior to get to the whys. And that's where the real solutions
lie.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: laura.beaudin@...
THhose who can afford it (which is quite a few) have their personnal
drivers to take them where they want. THose who can't either ride with
a friend or take a cab. They have the option to go shopping or
visiting their friends/relatives whenever they want. There are many
things that a women here could do to pass her time...almost as many
things as you could do to pass your time. From swimming and working
out (at all-female centers) to collecting things, cross stitching and
reading, They however chose to spend their time passively in front of
the TV.
-=-=-=-=-
But why do you think that is? Same here: women---PEOPLE! here have many
options. Some choose to sit in front of a tv. Others don't, even
thought they have a tv---or several in their homes. People choose the
*best* option *TO THEM* .
The people who get rid of a tv seem weak to me. A tv CONTROLS your
life? You have to get RID of a *thing* in order to function? You can't
simply turn it off?
Amazing.
-=-=-=-=
As for conforting a child, is it really a good idea to confort a child
with TV?
-=-=-=-=
I'm not saying to comfort a child with TV.
I'm saying that children---and some adults---who don't get comfort from
the *right* sources may FIND comfort in TV. If that's their only
solace, I have no problem with it.
When I feel crappy, I know that I can lie on the sofa with a cup of tea
and watch M*A*S*H reruns to my heart's content. What a warm feeling.
Takes me back to when I was a teen. Very comforting. Just hearing that
theme song is soothing.
I can also find that feeling out in the garden. But when it's 35
degrees, I'd rather be inside. <g> I don't always choose tv. It's not
on now. I have a long, long list of things to do today and tomorrow and
the next day. Will tv be in it? Maybe. Maybe not. But *I* get to choose
what I do. And my options are MANY.
--=-=-=-
I sincerely want to know because of the following. Let's say
that instead of TV, the child seeks food for confort? This is how
emotionally eating begins..I know because I've been battling food
addiction my whole life. Will you step in before it becomes a problem
or let it get out of control? I'd like to know your opinion and the
unschooling opinion in general regarding this.
-==-=-=-=-
So---how were *you* comforted as a child? Can you find that comfort now?
Our children's lives are really not subjected to control or addiction.
Really. It's really sweet, and we're avoiding a lot of this turmoil
you've witnessed by being our children's partners and supports.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: laura.beaudin@...
THhose who can afford it (which is quite a few) have their personnal
drivers to take them where they want. THose who can't either ride with
a friend or take a cab. They have the option to go shopping or
visiting their friends/relatives whenever they want. There are many
things that a women here could do to pass her time...almost as many
things as you could do to pass your time. From swimming and working
out (at all-female centers) to collecting things, cross stitching and
reading, They however chose to spend their time passively in front of
the TV.
-=-=-=-=-
But why do you think that is? Same here: women---PEOPLE! here have many
options. Some choose to sit in front of a tv. Others don't, even
thought they have a tv---or several in their homes. People choose the
*best* option *TO THEM* .
The people who get rid of a tv seem weak to me. A tv CONTROLS your
life? You have to get RID of a *thing* in order to function? You can't
simply turn it off?
Amazing.
-=-=-=-=
As for conforting a child, is it really a good idea to confort a child
with TV?
-=-=-=-=
I'm not saying to comfort a child with TV.
I'm saying that children---and some adults---who don't get comfort from
the *right* sources may FIND comfort in TV. If that's their only
solace, I have no problem with it.
When I feel crappy, I know that I can lie on the sofa with a cup of tea
and watch M*A*S*H reruns to my heart's content. What a warm feeling.
Takes me back to when I was a teen. Very comforting. Just hearing that
theme song is soothing.
I can also find that feeling out in the garden. But when it's 35
degrees, I'd rather be inside. <g> I don't always choose tv. It's not
on now. I have a long, long list of things to do today and tomorrow and
the next day. Will tv be in it? Maybe. Maybe not. But *I* get to choose
what I do. And my options are MANY.
--=-=-=-
I sincerely want to know because of the following. Let's say
that instead of TV, the child seeks food for confort? This is how
emotionally eating begins..I know because I've been battling food
addiction my whole life. Will you step in before it becomes a problem
or let it get out of control? I'd like to know your opinion and the
unschooling opinion in general regarding this.
-==-=-=-=-
So---how were *you* comforted as a child? Can you find that comfort now?
Our children's lives are really not subjected to control or addiction.
Really. It's really sweet, and we're avoiding a lot of this turmoil
you've witnessed by being our children's partners and supports.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.