DS won’t eat

Julie Peters

11 Feb 2007, at 10:01am

I have a new problem that I hope you all will be able to offer
suggestions for.

My DS (10yo) is not eating regularly. We've already ruled
out...sickness and emotional problems. And we know that boys
sometimes loose their appetites while they are "in" a growth spurt.
He is a skinny boy...slim-fits tend to need belts...I'm not really
concerned with weight gain becasue he could probably use it. So
these things are not really of concern. I am concerned that he will
develop a bad habit and/or that it will become unhealthy but that is
pretty low on my "worry scale".

Alex will go almost the whole day without eating anything
(literally), and then be starving by dinner. I am all for letting
him choose for himself what and when to eat. We have always given
free-reign of the kitchen and everything in it. If the kids are
hungry all they have to do is go get it or ask for it to be made or
if they can cook it now that they are old enough.

When others are eating we always consider the other members and ask
if they would like some too. Even when he's been playing hard and
doesn't want to stop to eat, I'll remind him that there is food on
the table/stove when he's ready for a break...sometimes I'll just
bring it to him. So it's not a lack of food or lack of opportunity
thing either.

But lately, even if I bring it to him...he won't eat. He may eat
two or three bites then the rest is left on the counter or thrown
away. He'll say he's just not hungry. Usually, that wouldn't
bother me...

However, what has become the problem is that he is
constantly "crashing". We do know this IS the underlying problem.
Which leads him to be irritable and cranky. Not that our family is
without it's fusses. We're not totally RU yet...kids are 13 &
10...we're having to break A LOT of bad habits in all of us. But it
certainly adds to the heat.

When he does eat, he's like a shark at a feeding frenzy...trance
like and barely comes up for air. He acts like he's in an eating
race/competition or like his food is going to be taken away which
has never happened, I might add.

I guess what I need help with is: How do we address his physical
NEED to eat versus his "don't want to/not hungry"?

We have discussed with him how bodies react to food/lack of food and
how he's running out of "fuel". We've offered special foods/meals,
different times, keeping extra convenience foods, bringing food to
him, offering several smaller meals/snacks during the day, etc. But
he still just "doesn't" eat until it's TOO late. I don't want to
make him eat if he really doesn't want to...I lived through "you're
not done until your plate is clean" era and have no desire to to
that to my kids...but it's a he NEEDS to.

I've wondered if he doesn't feel/notice hunger pains or if he just
ingnores them because he doen't want to interrupt what he's
doing...??

BTW, this has been going on for over a month now...much longer than
any other time he's lost his appetite.

Thanks for any ideas...
Julie Peters

Heather Elliott

11 Feb 2007, at 10:49am

Hi
My name is Heather and I have a 7yo just like this. He will eat breakfast then when lunch comes around "I'am not hungry"
Then at supper he is starving and crashing. Just thought that I would share this with you. I will email you later when I have more time to talk.

Heather
----- Original Message ----
From: Julie Peters <julieannpeters@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:01:37 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] DS won't eat

I have a new problem that I hope you all will be able to offer

suggestions for.

My DS (10yo) is not eating regularly. We've already ruled

out...sickness and emotional problems. And we know that boys

sometimes loose their appetites while they are "in" a growth spurt.

He is a skinny boy...slim-fits tend to need belts...I'm not really

concerned with weight gain becasue he could probably use it. So

these things are not really of concern. I am concerned that he will

develop a bad habit and/or that it will become unhealthy but that is

pretty low on my "worry scale".

Alex will go almost the whole day without eating anything

(literally), and then be starving by dinner. I am all for letting

him choose for himself what and when to eat. We have always given

free-reign of the kitchen and everything in it. If the kids are

hungry all they have to do is go get it or ask for it to be made or

if they can cook it now that they are old enough.

When others are eating we always consider the other members and ask

if they would like some too. Even when he's been playing hard and

doesn't want to stop to eat, I'll remind him that there is food on

the table/stove when he's ready for a break...sometimes I'll just

bring it to him. So it's not a lack of food or lack of opportunity

thing either.

But lately, even if I bring it to him...he won't eat. He may eat

two or three bites then the rest is left on the counter or thrown

away. He'll say he's just not hungry. Usually, that wouldn't

bother me...

However, what has become the problem is that he is

constantly "crashing". We do know this IS the underlying problem.

Which leads him to be irritable and cranky. Not that our family is

without it's fusses. We're not totally RU yet...kids are 13 &

10...we're having to break A LOT of bad habits in all of us. But it

certainly adds to the heat.

When he does eat, he's like a shark at a feeding frenzy...trance

like and barely comes up for air. He acts like he's in an eating

race/competition or like his food is going to be taken away which

has never happened, I might add.

I guess what I need help with is: How do we address his physical

NEED to eat versus his "don't want to/not hungry"?

We have discussed with him how bodies react to food/lack of food and

how he's running out of "fuel". We've offered special foods/meals,

different times, keeping extra convenience foods, bringing food to

him, offering several smaller meals/snacks during the day, etc. But

he still just "doesn't" eat until it's TOO late. I don't want to

make him eat if he really doesn't want to...I lived through "you're

not done until your plate is clean" era and have no desire to to

that to my kids...but it's a he NEEDS to.

I've wondered if he doesn't feel/notice hunger pains or if he just

ingnores them because he doen't want to interrupt what he's

doing...??

BTW, this has been going on for over a month now...much longer than

any other time he's lost his appetite.

Thanks for any ideas...

Julie Peters



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Ren Allen

11 Feb 2007, at 12:42pm

~~If the kids are
hungry all they have to do is go get it or ask for it to be made or
if they can cook it now that they are old enough.~~

When I read this I first thought "be proactive and have food
available" but later in your post it sounds like you might be doing
some of that. Instead of just offering him what is cooking, do you
have platters of food that is ready-to-eat available? I find that if I
provide food that doesn't need any preparation, we tend to munch on it
all day...a healthier way to eat anyway.

Would he enjoy being a participant in meal planning, grocery shopping
etc?? Maybe if he had more control over the prep end of things he
might be able to offer more clues about what he wants available?

What about protein shakes? Those are easy to drink while you're doing
other things and it would supplement his sporadic appetite until this
passes. Get him a good multi-vitamin and try to keep trusting him. If
you've ruled out physical or emotional issues, then the only thing
left is growth and time in my opinion.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

11 Feb 2007, at 12:44pm

~~He will eat breakfast then
when lunch comes around "I'am not hungry"
Then at supper he is starving and crashing.~~

That's the problem with mealtimes. People aren't all hungry at the
same times, especially children whose metabolisms are very different
from our own. Having food readily available to snack on is so
important for growing children and gives them the opportunity to keep
trusting their own hunger signals.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

11 Feb 2007, at 12:49pm

-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...

What about protein shakes? Those are easy to drink while you're doing
other things and it would supplement his sporadic appetite until this
passes.

-=-=-=-

Yeah---that was my thought too. Will he drink?

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

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plaidpanties666

11 Feb 2007, at 4:27pm

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:

>> Instead of just offering him what is cooking, do you
> have platters of food that is ready-to-eat available? I find that

if I

> provide food that doesn't need any preparation, we tend to munch

on it

> all day...a healthier way to eat anyway.

If you *are* doing this, it may be helpful to "refresh" the food
more regularly. Mo won't eat some foods if they've sat out for
awhile - bready things and popcorn, most noticably, but with drinks
there are also temperature issues. She doesn't actively complain,
but if I ask, she'll tell me its icky.

> Would he enjoy being a participant in meal planning, grocery

shopping

> etc?? Maybe if he had more control over the prep end of things he
> might be able to offer more clues about what he wants available?

At the same time, don't place any expectations on this sort of thing
changing his eating habits. Mo loves to do all these things, gets
all excited, even loves to prepare food, but it doesn't seem to
affect what she chooses to eat or when.

Any one want 13 cheese sandwiches? I'm Full!

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

finnaland

11 Feb 2007, at 5:54pm

<<we tend to munch on it all day...a healthier way to eat anyway.>>

For some, not all. I find that if I give my stomach a break between
eating, allowing it to digest and sit empty for a while, I feel better
and have more energy, and need less sleep.

Every body is different, the key is to learn to listen to your self,
not go by what others say is "healthier" or "better."

--SK

Julie Peters

11 Feb 2007, at 8:11pm

We have tons of convenient "simple/non-prep" stuff like protein bars,
granola, fruits, veggies, popcorn, cereals, yogurts, cheeses,
boiled/deviled eggs (his favorite) and chips/salsa, etc. I try to
have the veggies and fruit already bite sized and keep plenty of
dips/dressings handy. I haven't given the "icky" idea much
thought...I'll ask to see if that is an issue.

I haven't really thought about protein shakes. I have thought about
smoothies since when he does drink it's mostly juices. He doesn't
care for water and has recently steered away from milk. But he almost
always drinks Gatorade or Sprite when we're out.

His sister loves to be in the kitchen and make biscuts, mini-pizzas,
cookies, and muffins for everyone to share. He however, only gets
involved if it is one of his favorite foods (spagetti, potatoe salad,
stroganoff).

He sometimes makes requests for specific things from/at the grocery
store but doesn't seem to have an interest in helping do the
shopping. When someone wants to make a meal, we usually ask if there
is something perticular that anyone wants. So he gets plenty of input
of what he would like to eat and usually we can accomodate...even if
it is something totally different from what everyone else is eating.

Honestly, we've thought that we have made as many choices as we can
availible to him regarding eating...we're running out of ideas.

Thanks for all the input.
Julie Peters

Heather Elliott

11 Feb 2007, at 8:35pm

Hi Julie,
The doctor suggested that we put our son on Pedisure. Well he is finally drinking them. I get the Kroger brand for about 6.99 for a six pack and they have three flavors. He really likes it. He favors the vanilla kind though. Sometimes he will drink two a day and I noticed that he is finally gaining some weight. He finally reached 40 pounds and we shouted for joy! He just turned seven. I try to get him to eat a lot of protein during the day or around supper. He needs to gain some weight. The doctor said he was okay but I think he needs some weight. Oh well......I just thought that I would put my two cents in.

Heather

----- Original Message ----
From: Julie Peters <julieannpeters@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:11:20 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: DS won't eat

We have tons of convenient "simple/non- prep" stuff like protein bars,

granola, fruits, veggies, popcorn, cereals, yogurts, cheeses,

boiled/deviled eggs (his favorite) and chips/salsa, etc. I try to

have the veggies and fruit already bite sized and keep plenty of

dips/dressings handy. I haven't given the "icky" idea much

thought...I' ll ask to see if that is an issue.

I haven't really thought about protein shakes. I have thought about

smoothies since when he does drink it's mostly juices. He doesn't

care for water and has recently steered away from milk. But he almost

always drinks Gatorade or Sprite when we're out.

His sister loves to be in the kitchen and make biscuts, mini-pizzas,

cookies, and muffins for everyone to share. He however, only gets

involved if it is one of his favorite foods (spagetti, potatoe salad,

stroganoff).

He sometimes makes requests for specific things from/at the grocery

store but doesn't seem to have an interest in helping do the

shopping. When someone wants to make a meal, we usually ask if there

is something perticular that anyone wants. So he gets plenty of input

of what he would like to eat and usually we can accomodate.. .even if

it is something totally different from what everyone else is eating.

Honestly, we've thought that we have made as many choices as we can

availible to him regarding eating...we' re running out of ideas.

Thanks for all the input.

Julie Peters



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Christen Maurer

12 Feb 2007, at 12:18pm

Hi, I'm new to the group! My name is Christy and I have a 9 year old son and 12 year old daughter.

My son is very much like yours in that matter. He has been that way almost all of his life! When he was 2 he went through at period where almost all he would eat was popsicles. A few months later almost all he would eat would be carrots! I guess they have a way of balancing themselves out lol.

Anyway, I offer him food at the times we eat, and sometimes he will eat it and other times he won't. I have learned that I can't stress over it because I don't want to make a huge deal out of food. He is thin too and really eats a lot in the evening. I think a lot of times, he is just so busy playing his games or building legos or whatever, that he doesn't think of eating. Then evening comes, and he's watching tv and realizes he is hungry. He usually will eat supper pretty well because he is hungry, but breakfast and lunch are pretty much hit and miss. We tend to sleep late, so breakfast might be partial lunch too.

I wouldn't stress over it. I know the crashing thing is hard. He goes through that too, and I then I just say, "Kyle, I think you are hungry. Maybe you should go in the kitchen and see if there is something you want to eat." I think he probably DIDN'T realize he was hungry because he was so busy, and then he got irritable.

I hope this helps some. I know it isn't a solution, but sometimes it helps just to know other kids do the same thing.

Christy

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Ren Allen

12 Feb 2007, at 5:22pm

~~Every body is different, the key is to learn to listen to your self,
not go by what others say is "healthier" or "better."~~

But my point wasn't about listening to what others say, my point was
that it's healthier to eat smaller amounts more often, rather than a
large amount. That doesn't negate the choice to let your system be
more empty if that feels better to your body. The bottom line is that
eating big meals isn't really all that great, but it seems to be what
we're trained to do in our society.

And children (as well as adults) can only learn to listen to
themselves if they're given the freedom to eat what they want, when
they want rather than have their parents telling them what is
"healthier" or "better".:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Manisha Kher

12 Feb 2007, at 6:09pm

Dd(7) wants to have a pet. She wants a furry animal
she can pick up and play with.

Neither dh nor I have ever had a pet. I can
occasionally pat a friend's dog or feed their cats
when they're on vacation. But beyond that, I've no
interest in animals. In other words we're clueless.

Couple other factors to consider - I'm allergic to
cats and we go on month long vacations out of the
country.

So the question is which animal to get. I've been
trying to read up online. We seem to have narrowed it
down to hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs and rabbits.
I'd like to get feedback from pet-owners about their
experiences with these animals and whether they make
good first pets.

Thank you
Manisha

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fae_dragonfly

12 Feb 2007, at 6:27pm

Hi Manisha!
The only problem I see with a pet, is your long trips away. All of the possiblities that you listed are all very social animals just like dogs and cats. Granted, they are not as large, and can stay in cages, but they love to be held and loved. If they go without that for a while, they can become aggressive, particularly rabbits. Do you have someone, a friend or family member, that would be willing to come make sure that they are fed, watered and have a little play time while you are away?
My best suggestion would be the hamster. We have had several and then we moved up to rabbits and a rat. The rat is a wonderful pet, but you do have to interact with it everyday. You also should not feed them through the cage. This will also make them aggressive.
I hope this helps. I can understand the anxiety of picking out that first pet for your child. Trust me. It gets easier. We now have 3 dogs, 3 cats, 2 rabbits, 2 cockatiels and a rat. Yes, I am out of my mind. :)
Blessings,
fae

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the day he forgives them, he becomes and adult; the day he forgives himself;
he becomes wise." ~ Aiden Nolan

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Katharine Wise

12 Feb 2007, at 6:35pm

We have a hamster; he's almost two. It's my first experience with a rodent and I have to say it's pretty much what I expected it to be -- not very exciting. (I've only had dogs and a cat before.) But then, my kids don't take it out and play with it although every other child who comes over is obsessed with it. The friends from whom we got the hamster (theirs had babies), love them. They take it in and out of the cage all day, hold them, pet them, etc. I think if your child really loves animals and wants a pet to play with they're relatively inexpensive and little work. The more expensive litter *is* better. We also got two little rooms that attach to either end of the cage and essentially litter-box trained the hamster (he uses one for a bedroom and one for a bathroom), so we can do a quick clean to cut down odor without having to change the whole cage as frequently.

From what I've seen with friends (the ones with a hamster also have a guinea pig and had a rabbit), the bigger the pet the more interesting they tend to be. On the other hand, the odor is stronger and you need more/bigger of everything. Their rabbit was a lot of fun, though.

Re vacations, we can leave the hamster with enough food for several days. If we're gone longer than that we tend to take him with us. Definitely think about whether you have someone to pet sit if you're going to be away longer and can't take the animal. While I'm sure plenty of people own both cats and hamsters, I'm hesitant to ask someone else to take on the responsibility of protecting our pet from their cat. A lot of the friends I would otherwise ask to hamster-sit have cats. It would be pretty upsetting to all involved if someone else's cat managed to eat your pet.

Katharine

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Mara

12 Feb 2007, at 6:53pm

When I was very young we had guinea pigs which did not
mind being picked up a lot and carried around. They
are very friendly and soft and fairly easy to take
care of. So are rabbits. Me and my brother each got
one when we were around your dd's age. We had dwarf
rabbits that could be kept outside (eliminated the
odor and hair in the house). We acctually had them in
a cage in a playhouse. Today we have outdoor rabbits
again and the kids play with them a lot, more when it
is warm.
When I was young I acctually took my rabbit for walks
and it was so tame it would walk behind me like a dog,
no leash or anything.
I did get a little lax with cleaning the cage once the
novelty wore off, but when the kids are this young I
would help them do this anyways (my parents obviously
thought otherwise).
As I understand hamsters and gerbils sleep a lot
during the day, so they might not be so much fun for
someone who likes to handle animals a lot. Why don't
you take your dd to a pet store and have her observe
the different options for a while, she might then know
more of what she would like...
And make sure you have someone in place who would
agree to at least feed and take care of the animal
when you are gone.
Good luck,
Mara

--- Manisha Kher <m_kher@...> wrote:

> Dd(7) wants to have a pet. She wants a furry animal
> she can pick up and play with.
>
> Neither dh nor I have ever had a pet. I can
> occasionally pat a friend's dog or feed their cats
> when they're on vacation. But beyond that, I've no
> interest in animals. In other words we're clueless.
>
> Couple other factors to consider - I'm allergic to
> cats and we go on month long vacations out of the
> country.
>
> So the question is which animal to get. I've been
> trying to read up online. We seem to have narrowed
> it
> down to hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs and rabbits.
> I'd like to get feedback from pet-owners about their
> experiences with these animals and whether they make
> good first pets.
>
> Thank you
> Manisha
>
>
>
>
>

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Lori

12 Feb 2007, at 10:01pm

Have you researched the degu? They are wonderful rodents that are equally as
related to the guinea pig as the chinchilla, and full grown are about the
size of your closed fist. They are smart like a rat without the tail or the
smell. They are very affectionate if kept alone, but do need a lot of
attention if they don't have a buddy to play with. They do very well kept in
same sex pairs, also. They are very handlable and live about 5 years. When
Konur is ready for a pet, he will be getting a degu, I cannot say enough
wonderful things about them. http://www.degus.org/

Lori, Ron, Konur, and Mali

Visit Lori's business website at

<http://LorisNursingNecklaces.com/> http://LorisNursingNecklaces.com/

And Lori's business blog at

http://lorisnursingnecklaces.blogspot.com/

_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Manisha Kher
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT: Which pet to get

Dd(7) wants to have a pet. She wants a furry animal
she can pick up and play with.

Neither dh nor I have ever had a pet. I can
occasionally pat a friend's dog or feed their cats
when they're on vacation. But beyond that, I've no
interest in animals. In other words we're clueless.

Couple other factors to consider - I'm allergic to
cats and we go on month long vacations out of the
country.

So the question is which animal to get. I've been
trying to read up online. We seem to have narrowed it
down to hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs and rabbits.
I'd like to get feedback from pet-owners about their
experiences with these animals and whether they make
good first pets.

Thank you
Manisha

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Manisha Kher

13 Feb 2007, at 1:34pm

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions.

--- fae_dragonfly <fae_dragonfly@...> wrote:

> Granted, they are not as large, and can stay in
> cages, but they love to be held and loved. If they
> go without that for a while, they can become
> aggressive, particularly rabbits. Do you have
> someone, a friend or family member, that would be
> willing to come make sure that they are fed, watered
> and have a little play time while you are away?

I was thinking I would ask friends to come over and
feed them. But perhaps moving the cage to a friend's
house might be better. So the animal might get more
interaction. Or will a move bother a small animal?

Dd has played with a hamster at her friend's house and
also with a guinea pig at another friend's house.
She'd prefer a guinea pig because hamsters are
nocturnal. Dh is taking the kids to a pet store today
to look for cages and such and also see/handle the
animals.

Manisha

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D Smith

13 Feb 2007, at 3:24pm

Katharine
A lot of the friends I would otherwise ask to
hamster-sit have cats. It would be pretty upsetting to
all involved if someone else's cat managed to eat your
pet.

First I have cats, 3 of them. And yes it would be
upsetting. But there are ways to protect the hamster.
Once while dog sitting one dog died. I was so upset,
because to some extent I felt responsible. However,
the dog was old and she just happened to die while I
was taking care of her. We have to protect our 2
geckos from my cat. Spike (my cat) is very SMART. So,
smart he knows where his fake mice are, the geckos,
and the crickets for the geckos are. And he tries to
get them. He wants to play with them. But he would
kill them if he could. But Im smarter than him, and
Ive put the crickets and his mice in a cupboard that
is child proof. And the geckos are in a room that his
is not allowed in. so there is a way to work it out.

Manisha
Guinea pigs are nocturnal as well. They have vitamin C
deficiency so they need it added to their water, so
their water needs to be changed daily. Also if you
could maybe she should pet sit for a day, to see how
it would be in her room? Because that is always
different than just holding a friends or seeing them
at the pet store. Too many animals wind up in shelters
or worse because people didnt do their homework
before hand. I would suggest you read up on what you
can handle, not just what your daughter would like,
because when she relaxes on the duties, its your job
to maintain a healthy environment. I dont say this
harshly, I say it because I worked for a pet store,
and too many times, I was asked after a customer
bought a pet, could they return it or did they know
anyone who wanted it, because they didnt do their
research. when you find the right pet, it's great for
all.

with our 3 cats, we have a fun time watching them
chase the laser pointer, spike plays fetch with his
fake mice, our little dog chases the cats and even
though our geckos are kinda boring, we like to watch
them walk up the walls of their cage. and if we had
more room, and a little bit more money, i'm sure we'd
have more pets. i know we are crazy.

danie
it's just my 2 cents. i can't stand irresponsible pet
owners, because they give the responsible pet owners a
bad name.

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Katharine Wise

13 Feb 2007, at 5:16pm

Yes, I agree, you can protect the hamster from your own cats. My point was that I wouldn't want to give that stress and responsibility to a friend. However, if dh weren't allergic, I'd get a cat myself, even with the hamster:-) I do remember missing gerbil hunts as a child, though, searching under my friend's furniture trying to find and rescue the gerbils before their cats found and ate them.

Katharine

Katharine:

A lot of the friends I would otherwise ask to

hamster-sit have cats. It would be pretty upsetting to

all involved if someone else's cat managed to eat your

pet.

Danie:

First I have cats, 3 of them. And yes it would be

upsetting. But there are ways to protect the hamster.

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josha.grant

14 Feb 2007, at 1:18pm

Hi Julie,

Just wanted to echo that I have a son(9) in the same boat. Quite
thin and with a sporadic appetite as well and he is quite a picky
eater to boot!! At least it seems that your guy is open to more
choices. I was impressed with the things he will eat!!

The whole food thing is quite an issue for me personally and through
Unschooling I find we are defooding (like deschooling!). We have
pretty much let meal times fall away. I have noticed that I eat way
less (a good thing for me I think) when I eat when I am hungry and
not when it is meal time.

There are a couple of things my son loves to eat (Apples, carrots and
Jerkey) So I make sure I toss them around during the day. This is
new and has helped quite a bit. For me the less I say the better. I
used to say everytime he got frustrated "do you want something to
eat?" How annoying is that?? While probably true...-he is often
too absorbed in play to break for food, can't be bothered. That is
my cue to just cut up an apple and set it there and for me to walk
away (important in our dynamic). I think he knows he is hungry but
often can't be bothered.

Before we found Unschooling we were leaning in the Waldorf
direction. I learned some interesting things! (that's another
story!) Not sure how to describe without rambling too much...but
anyway a tidbit of information that helped me relax a bit about DS
being thin and really not interested in food (there is so much
cultural hype about a healthy appetite, what is "normal" etc etc) was
the concept of what is refered to in Waldorf circles as the four
temperaments(like personality types). You could look for more info
online but suffice to say that the temperament that matched him the
most mentioned the food thing and being generally lean. (I just
googled the four temperaments and there is way more info than what I
remember!!....anyway just passing on the tidbit I took away that
helped me relax a bit).

It seems your major concern is the crash thing and that he might
carry it into adulthood... I think the less of a deal you can make of
it, the extremes will probably balance out.

Take care,

Josha

finnaland

14 Feb 2007, at 6:16pm

Amongst other very good and helpful suggestions, some societal
generalities, and fabulous unschooly sentiments there is an opinion
stated as fact. "It's a healthier way to eat" is not an absolute
here. I just can't see how declaring one way of eating as healthier
helps the situation, when it is not what the child's body feels like
doing at the moment. Am I missing something?

I don't know if you are equating what you feel to be a "big" meal with
over-eating where you eat more than what your body is comfortable
with. That would be different.

Peace,
--SK

> But my point wasn't about listening to what others say, my point was
> that it's healthier to eat smaller amounts more often, rather than a
> large amount. That doesn't negate the choice to let your system be
> more empty if that feels better to your body. The bottom line is that
> eating big meals isn't really all that great, but it seems to be what
> we're trained to do in our society.

Ren Allen

14 Feb 2007, at 11:45pm

~~I just can't see how declaring one way of eating as healthier
helps the situation, when it is not what the child's body feels like
doing at the moment. Am I missing something?~~

Yes, you're missing the point that the child wasn't hungry at "meal
times" and I was suggesting NOT focusing on a mealtime but on making
food available at all times!

The point wasn't to debate whether eating large amounts three times a
day is healthier than eating small amounts more frequently, it was
about letting go of the idea of a specific meal time! I still believe
that people tend to overeat by sticking to the three meals a day
thing....and that eating smaller amounts when you're hungry is MUCH
better.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

finnaland

15 Feb 2007, at 7:26pm

> Yes, you're missing the point that the child wasn't hungry at "meal
> times" and I was suggesting NOT focusing on a mealtime but on making
> food available at all times!

From the original post:
<< I am all for letting him choose for himself what and when to eat.
We have always given free-reign of the kitchen and everything in it.
If the kids are hungry all they have to do is go get it or ask for it
to be made or if they can cook it now that they are old enough. >>

I guess we were hearing different things from the same post. That
happens! I wasn't trying to "debate" anything, and I didn't want to
make anyone feel defensive when I gave a personal example. Ren, I see
where you did respond to another poster who may have been having
trouble with mealtimes; I understand where ideas could overlap. :)

The thread jumped out at me because of my daughter's eating habits,
which include going very long stretches without eating when she does
not feel hungry. We have worked with her to prevent the crashes that
inevitably occur, and it is usually with some sort of smoothie, drink
or the whole food chewable vitamin she likes. The remark that another
way of eating was healthier took me by surprise, because I was reading
that they boy was following his body's cues not to eat when he wasn't
feeling hungry. I see too much diversity in the eating habits of
people who aren't tied to mealtime ideology to agree with it in the
original context, without the clarification that it was in reference
to overeaters and mealtimes.

Everything else I had read regarding suggestions to support the boy
seemed right on, and things I myself had tried - which includes
setting out trays of pre-prepped and fun food. Perhaps the only thing
I could add would be that cups with lids and/or straws seem to help
because she just grabs it and keeps playing. Makes consumption easier
"on the go!" And as temperature was noted as a factor, it's true for
us and we do use insulated cups all the time.

What we've found with Fin is that these things cycle, depending on
growth spurts and such and what she's currently interesting in doing.
I used to worry, I don't anymore.

Good luck, Mama!
--SK

Ren Allen

16 Feb 2007, at 10:48am

~~Ren, I see
where you did respond to another poster who may have been having
trouble with mealtimes; I understand where ideas could overlap. :) ~~

What you're missing is that I was responding to another poster, NOT
the original poster. I even clipped what she said about her child not
wanting to eat at mealtimes. THAT'S what I was responding to!

The person I was responding to wasn't having the same issues and
therefore got a different response. Please read the entire post,
rather than hyperfocusing on one comment meant for a specific idea
(about having food available at mealtimes when a child may not be
hungry!).

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Manisha Kher

16 Feb 2007, at 2:41pm

--- D Smith <sandshuse@...> wrote:

> Too many animals wind up in
> shelters
> or worse because people didnt do their homework
> before hand. I would suggest you read up on what you
> can handle, not just what your daughter would like,
> because when she relaxes on the duties, its your
> job
> to maintain a healthy environment.

Believe me, all my reading has been to figure out what
I can handle. I _am_ expecting this to be my/dh's job.
And yes, I am worried about the animal ending up in a
shelter or injured some other way bt improper
handling. I'll see if she can pet-sit for someone.

Thanks
Manisha

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D Smith

16 Feb 2007, at 11:03pm

Manisha

i personally would love to know what you end up getting. my ds would like to get a hamster. we are still discussing it. i would like water frogs. less chance of our cats getting at them.

danie

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Ren Allen

17 Feb 2007, at 12:09am

~~my ds would like to
get a hamster. ~~

I can't stand hamsters personally...I think they're tiny devils in
furry bodies.:) BUT, my dd wants another one (rats are SO much better
imo) so we looked at some tonight and found out that the Chinese
dwarves are much more social, don't bite and can live with another
hamster (most hamsters will kill each other once they hit puberty).

So if we get another hamster, it will be a chinese dwarf. Thought that
might be useful for you in your research.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Joyce Fetteroll

17 Feb 2007, at 5:48am

On Feb 16, 2007, at 11:03 PM, D Smith wrote:

> i would like water frogs. less chance of our cats getting at them.

Frogs are more like decoration than pets ;-) If they're the kind we
have they wait around in the muck on the bottom until food arrives.
We've had ours for a *long* time (8 years at least). That's about the
most interesting thing about them ;-)

Ferrets are fun :-) They sleep for 20 some hours a day so they stay
in their cage most of the time. We let ours run around the house and
they're just little bundles of energy. Then after an hour and a half
they've burned themselves out and they go back in the cage and fall
asleep. (The odor is what most people object to but there's a product
called Bi-Odor that you squirt in their food and takes care of that.)

Our cats are a bit smaller than average and the ferrets can nip feet
pretty good (wearing shoes solves that problem) so the cats have
never seen them as prey. (Though we did adopt them as 2 and 3 yos.)
One cat enjoys watching them but the other actually enjoys playing
with them and rubs up against them.

Joyce

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Melissa

17 Feb 2007, at 3:15pm

I like decoration ;-) We were at the petstore today, and looking around doing 'research' into
pets. The kids don't really care for them, mostly because they know how very frightened
Breanna is of any furry animal and they don't want her to be stressed out all the time by
having them at our house. But we were looking at toads, turtles and crabs. Ah...those are
pets I can enjoy. Sam was also hoping that we could get a dragon, but alas, they were all out.

Melissa

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
> Frogs are more like decoration than pets ;-) If they're the kind we
> have they wait around in the muck on the bottom until food arrives.
> We've had ours for a *long* time (8 years at least). That's about the
> most interesting thing about them ;-)
>

Krisula Moyer

17 Feb 2007, at 6:12pm

We love our rats but guinea pigs are also very nice pets. Very social and
smart. I agree that hamsters aren't as much fun and, by way of a warning,
it isn't usually obvious which ones are already pregnant when you bring them
home from the pet store - - - ah, the voice of experience.
Krisula

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