Feeling like quiting???
susangould1
Does anyone here ever feel like quitting and just putting their kids
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
[email protected]
Years ago, Mary Gold was struggling with so many things. She typed this
out and stuck it on her bathroom mirror:
"It's NOT the unschooling."
Meaning that it's other stuff that's causing the problems.
Unschooling's not causing the husband to work 12-14 hours/day. It
didn't cause the grandad to have a stroke or the grandmom to spank or
the child to have control issues or the friends to be unsupportive. You
could *blame* it on unschooling, but it would be better to address each
issue on its own.
Where are you Sue? Maybe we know someone nearby.
Food allergies seem to be at the top of the list with "explosive" kids.
And have you read the book, The Explosive Child? You might want to try
changing his diet. What DOES he like to do? Can he do more of that? Is
there an indoor pool in town? Water is a good remedy for so many things.
He's not a monster! <g> Keep in mind that he's only five---you're so
much older with so much more experience and *YOU* are having trouble
with all that's going on! Imagine how it is for *him* with only five
years on the planet!
Maybe some folks wih more experience with these things will respond.
---and we might need more info.
It'll get better! Age helps a lot. Tell us more.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: ggould1@...
Does anyone here ever feel like quitting and just putting their kids
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
out and stuck it on her bathroom mirror:
"It's NOT the unschooling."
Meaning that it's other stuff that's causing the problems.
Unschooling's not causing the husband to work 12-14 hours/day. It
didn't cause the grandad to have a stroke or the grandmom to spank or
the child to have control issues or the friends to be unsupportive. You
could *blame* it on unschooling, but it would be better to address each
issue on its own.
Where are you Sue? Maybe we know someone nearby.
Food allergies seem to be at the top of the list with "explosive" kids.
And have you read the book, The Explosive Child? You might want to try
changing his diet. What DOES he like to do? Can he do more of that? Is
there an indoor pool in town? Water is a good remedy for so many things.
He's not a monster! <g> Keep in mind that he's only five---you're so
much older with so much more experience and *YOU* are having trouble
with all that's going on! Imagine how it is for *him* with only five
years on the planet!
Maybe some folks wih more experience with these things will respond.
---and we might need more info.
It'll get better! Age helps a lot. Tell us more.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: ggould1@...
Does anyone here ever feel like quitting and just putting their kids
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
susangould1
Thanks for responding Kelly - I was worried no one would respond and
I really do need help. I truly believe that unschooling is a great
way to live and I want it to work for us. I am just having a bit of
trouble knowing what I should be doing when certain things happen.
I know it is not unschooling that is causing all these things. These
things are just life. (work hours, grandparents etc...) I am in
Hamilton , Ontario. We are thinking about going to the Toronto
Unschooling Conference. Does anyone know if it is a kid friendly
conference?
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? Do I put him in a time out? (from what I think I know about
unschooling this does not encourage respect but maybe I am
interpreting it wrong) Do I ignore it? Do I speak firmly and tell
him not to do it? Tell him that it hurts me or whatever? None of
these seem to work. (I do realize that it takes consistency and
time - but which thing do I say?) How do I respectfully get through
to him that he cannot do these things? I know that he is acting this
way for a reason - our parenting skills probably - which we are
really trying to change. We are new at unschooling. (Has anyone
ever seen it work? - a total shift to unschooling life from
authoritarian parenting?) While we are working on trying to respect
each other ds is only 5 and he is not understanding the respecting
part - there are still ALOT of blow ups. I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it. I do find that some foods that have a lot of food
coloring in it seem to affect him badly. But not always.
We do go swimming a lot but gets he angry there usually at dd. So
lately we have not gone very much. I know I shouldn't care what
others think but really I do not like him acting like that in public
especially. (I have been told by complete strangers that he needs to
be in school with more discipline!)
I know a lot of this seems to be about me and my problems with what
is going on. But I just don't know how to deal with this in an
unschooling way of life. I totally get the no school part. But we
want to embrace the respectful living part as well. Dh is having a
bit of trouble with demanding that they do what is asked when asked
with no back talk. I am trying to get him to see differently on
this. But by the end of the day - especially if ds has been angry a
lot - I just want to go and cry and dh sometimes snaps and yells .. I
need help and direction from others who have experience with this.
Since I cannot confide in many people I am hoping I will find
guidance here.
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom. In one instance another mother had to
step up and "protect" her child from this kid because her own mom was
doing nothing. Now my ds has not done this yet to strangers but he
does it to us. And it was a real eyeopener that he could be on the
same path. How do I get off that path to peaceful, respectful,
happy, joyful life????
Thanks,
Sue
I really do need help. I truly believe that unschooling is a great
way to live and I want it to work for us. I am just having a bit of
trouble knowing what I should be doing when certain things happen.
I know it is not unschooling that is causing all these things. These
things are just life. (work hours, grandparents etc...) I am in
Hamilton , Ontario. We are thinking about going to the Toronto
Unschooling Conference. Does anyone know if it is a kid friendly
conference?
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? Do I put him in a time out? (from what I think I know about
unschooling this does not encourage respect but maybe I am
interpreting it wrong) Do I ignore it? Do I speak firmly and tell
him not to do it? Tell him that it hurts me or whatever? None of
these seem to work. (I do realize that it takes consistency and
time - but which thing do I say?) How do I respectfully get through
to him that he cannot do these things? I know that he is acting this
way for a reason - our parenting skills probably - which we are
really trying to change. We are new at unschooling. (Has anyone
ever seen it work? - a total shift to unschooling life from
authoritarian parenting?) While we are working on trying to respect
each other ds is only 5 and he is not understanding the respecting
part - there are still ALOT of blow ups. I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it. I do find that some foods that have a lot of food
coloring in it seem to affect him badly. But not always.
We do go swimming a lot but gets he angry there usually at dd. So
lately we have not gone very much. I know I shouldn't care what
others think but really I do not like him acting like that in public
especially. (I have been told by complete strangers that he needs to
be in school with more discipline!)
I know a lot of this seems to be about me and my problems with what
is going on. But I just don't know how to deal with this in an
unschooling way of life. I totally get the no school part. But we
want to embrace the respectful living part as well. Dh is having a
bit of trouble with demanding that they do what is asked when asked
with no back talk. I am trying to get him to see differently on
this. But by the end of the day - especially if ds has been angry a
lot - I just want to go and cry and dh sometimes snaps and yells .. I
need help and direction from others who have experience with this.
Since I cannot confide in many people I am hoping I will find
guidance here.
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom. In one instance another mother had to
step up and "protect" her child from this kid because her own mom was
doing nothing. Now my ds has not done this yet to strangers but he
does it to us. And it was a real eyeopener that he could be on the
same path. How do I get off that path to peaceful, respectful,
happy, joyful life????
Thanks,
Sue
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> Years ago, Mary Gold was struggling with so many things. She typed
this
> out and stuck it on her bathroom mirror:
>
> "It's NOT the unschooling."
>
> Meaning that it's other stuff that's causing the problems.
> Unschooling's not causing the husband to work 12-14 hours/day. It
> didn't cause the grandad to have a stroke or the grandmom to spank
or
> the child to have control issues or the friends to be unsupportive.
You
> could *blame* it on unschooling, but it would be better to address
each
> issue on its own.
>
> Where are you Sue? Maybe we know someone nearby.
>
> Food allergies seem to be at the top of the list with "explosive"
kids.
> And have you read the book, The Explosive Child? You might want to
try
> changing his diet. What DOES he like to do? Can he do more of that?
Is
> there an indoor pool in town? Water is a good remedy for so many
things.
>
> He's not a monster! <g> Keep in mind that he's only five---you're
so
> much older with so much more experience and *YOU* are having
trouble
> with all that's going on! Imagine how it is for *him* with only
five
> years on the planet!
>
> Maybe some folks wih more experience with these things will
respond.
> ---and we might need more info.
>
> It'll get better! Age helps a lot. Tell us more.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
Danielle Conger
susangould1 wrote:
at the hotel looks amazing! It even has a waterslide!
I think this may be a wonderful way to recharge your batteries, learn
more about unschooling and invigorate the energy in your family. There's
nothing quite like the positive, respectful parenting energy of an
unschooling conference.
also posted a couple of links to my webpage where I talk about parenting
an intense child. You might find those helpful.
Keeping everyone in the home safe is an important part of a parent's
job, imo, but that also means doing so in a way that's not modeling
bullying and aggression and power right back. That's the trick and the
difference between conventional parenting advice and what you'll likely
find on the unschooling lists.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>The Toronto Unschooling Conference is *very* kid friendly, and the pool
>
> I know it is not unschooling that is causing all these things. These
> things are just life. (work hours, grandparents etc...) I am in
> Hamilton , Ontario. We are thinking about going to the Toronto
> Unschooling Conference. Does anyone know if it is a kid friendly
> conference?
>
at the hotel looks amazing! It even has a waterslide!
I think this may be a wonderful way to recharge your batteries, learn
more about unschooling and invigorate the energy in your family. There's
nothing quite like the positive, respectful parenting energy of an
unschooling conference.
>I just wrote a big post about anger under the "problem" thread, and I
>
> My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
> angry? Do I put him in a time out? (from what I think I know about
> unschooling this does not encourage respect but maybe I am
> interpreting it wrong) Do I ignore it? Do I speak firmly and tell
> him not to do it? Tell him that it hurts me or whatever? None of
> these seem to work. (I do realize that it takes consistency and
> time - but which thing do I say?) How do I respectfully get through
> to him that he cannot do these things?
>
also posted a couple of links to my webpage where I talk about parenting
an intense child. You might find those helpful.
Keeping everyone in the home safe is an important part of a parent's
job, imo, but that also means doing so in a way that's not modeling
bullying and aggression and power right back. That's the trick and the
difference between conventional parenting advice and what you'll likely
find on the unschooling lists.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: ggould1@...
We are thinking about going to the Toronto
Unschooling Conference. Does anyone know if it is a kid friendly
conference?
-=-=-=-
VERY! It was modeled after the Live and Learn Conference, so it's
family- and child-friendly. I heard lots of good feedback from the last
conference---and Pam has a great line-up of speakers this year. You
WON'T be disappointed! GO!
-=-=-=-=-
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? Do I put him in a time out? (from what I think I know about
unschooling this does not encourage respect but maybe I am
interpreting it wrong) Do I ignore it? Do I speak firmly and tell
him not to do it? Tell him that it hurts me or whatever? None of
these seem to work. (I do realize that it takes consistency and
time - but which thing do I say?)
-=-=-=-=-
Each child is different. Some need space to calm down. Some need a
tight squeese/hug to feel connected. Some like long discussions. Some
don't want to hear ONE word come out of your mouth. Some like to talk
things through. Some need pure quiet and reflective time. Some do well
with redirection.
What works *best*?
-=-=-==-
How do I respectfully get through
to him that he cannot do these things? I know that he is acting this
way for a reason - our parenting skills probably - which we are
really trying to change.
-=-=-=-
Consistency helps.
-=-==-=-
We are new at unschooling. (Has anyone
ever seen it work? - a total shift to unschooling life from
authoritarian parenting?)
-=-=-=-
Yep. I was never authoritarian---but according to a poster a week or so
ago, I could have been described as authoritative. <g> Ben was
authoritarian. Cam's answer always had to be "how high?" Ben's
military---Citadel grad and Lt Colonel---Air Force and now Air National
Guard. <G> I didn't have too much to change, but Ben DID. Now Ben's
made this HUGE shift---having to come way farther than I did to begin
with, and now surpassing me with gentle parenting at times! <G>
So, YES, it IS possible! <g>
-=-=-==-
While we are working on trying to respect
each other ds is only 5 and he is not understanding the respecting
part - there are still ALOT of blow ups.
-=-==-
And understandably---right? You have to be respected---for a long
time---to be respectful.
-=-=-=-=-
I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it.
-=-=-=-
Half.com, e-bay, amazon. I've often paid more for the hshipping than
the book itself!
-=-=-=-
I do find that some foods that have a lot of food
coloring in it seem to affect him badly. But not always.
-=-=-=-
Elimination diet---find out *which* ones, specifically. It may be a
combo too!
-=-=-=--
We do go swimming a lot but gets he angry there usually at dd. So
lately we have not gone very much. I know I shouldn't care what
others think but really I do not like him acting like that in public
especially. (I have been told by complete strangers that he needs to
be in school with more discipline!)
-=-=-=-
Does anyone have a link to the "I Don't Care What People Think ABout
My Children" rant I made years ago? <bwg> I couldn't find it.
-=-=-=-=-
I know a lot of this seems to be about me and my problems with what
is going on. But I just don't know how to deal with this in an
unschooling way of life. I totally get the no school part. But we
want to embrace the respectful living part as well. Dh is having a
bit of trouble with demanding that they do what is asked when asked
with no back talk. I am trying to get him to see differently on
this. But by the end of the day - especially if ds has been angry a
lot - I just want to go and cry and dh sometimes snaps and yells .. I
need help and direction from others who have experience with this.
Since I cannot confide in many people I am hoping I will find
guidance here.
-=-=-=-
Have you read Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child? It's a play-by-play
about respecting children in an easy-to-read Q&A format. It will change
your life.
-=-=-=-=-
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom. In one instance another mother had to
step up and "protect" her child from this kid because her own mom was
doing nothing.
-=-=-=-
You realize that this is NOT what we are talking about, right? I would
have taken mine away or sat right there *between* my child and others
or found something else to do. Doing *nothing* is neglect, and that's
NOT what we promote here.
-=-=-=-
Now my ds has not done this yet to strangers but he does it to us.
-=-=-=-
On the *up* side, that may be because he feels safe with you. He knows
he can be difficult, yet you'll still love and cherish him. THAT's a
good thing! <g>
Many kids are angels at school. But come home and are absolute horrors
with mom. They've struggled all day to be the perfect child, and
finally need a place to release all that anger and frustration they've
been hiding all day. Mom's the safe outlet.
-=-=-=--
And it was a real eyeopener that he could be on the
same path. How do I get off that path to peaceful, respectful,
happy, joyful life????
-=-=-=-
By seeing where he is now and understanding that he really doesn't want
to be this way either. He'd like to have a smooth life too. He's just
really, really little with very few skills available to him. He's
honestly doing the best he can with the limited abilities he has.
KNOW that, and you can start to help him cope.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: ggould1@...
We are thinking about going to the Toronto
Unschooling Conference. Does anyone know if it is a kid friendly
conference?
-=-=-=-
VERY! It was modeled after the Live and Learn Conference, so it's
family- and child-friendly. I heard lots of good feedback from the last
conference---and Pam has a great line-up of speakers this year. You
WON'T be disappointed! GO!
-=-=-=-=-
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? Do I put him in a time out? (from what I think I know about
unschooling this does not encourage respect but maybe I am
interpreting it wrong) Do I ignore it? Do I speak firmly and tell
him not to do it? Tell him that it hurts me or whatever? None of
these seem to work. (I do realize that it takes consistency and
time - but which thing do I say?)
-=-=-=-=-
Each child is different. Some need space to calm down. Some need a
tight squeese/hug to feel connected. Some like long discussions. Some
don't want to hear ONE word come out of your mouth. Some like to talk
things through. Some need pure quiet and reflective time. Some do well
with redirection.
What works *best*?
-=-=-==-
How do I respectfully get through
to him that he cannot do these things? I know that he is acting this
way for a reason - our parenting skills probably - which we are
really trying to change.
-=-=-=-
Consistency helps.
-=-==-=-
We are new at unschooling. (Has anyone
ever seen it work? - a total shift to unschooling life from
authoritarian parenting?)
-=-=-=-
Yep. I was never authoritarian---but according to a poster a week or so
ago, I could have been described as authoritative. <g> Ben was
authoritarian. Cam's answer always had to be "how high?" Ben's
military---Citadel grad and Lt Colonel---Air Force and now Air National
Guard. <G> I didn't have too much to change, but Ben DID. Now Ben's
made this HUGE shift---having to come way farther than I did to begin
with, and now surpassing me with gentle parenting at times! <G>
So, YES, it IS possible! <g>
-=-=-==-
While we are working on trying to respect
each other ds is only 5 and he is not understanding the respecting
part - there are still ALOT of blow ups.
-=-==-
And understandably---right? You have to be respected---for a long
time---to be respectful.
-=-=-=-=-
I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it.
-=-=-=-
Half.com, e-bay, amazon. I've often paid more for the hshipping than
the book itself!
-=-=-=-
I do find that some foods that have a lot of food
coloring in it seem to affect him badly. But not always.
-=-=-=-
Elimination diet---find out *which* ones, specifically. It may be a
combo too!
-=-=-=--
We do go swimming a lot but gets he angry there usually at dd. So
lately we have not gone very much. I know I shouldn't care what
others think but really I do not like him acting like that in public
especially. (I have been told by complete strangers that he needs to
be in school with more discipline!)
-=-=-=-
Does anyone have a link to the "I Don't Care What People Think ABout
My Children" rant I made years ago? <bwg> I couldn't find it.
-=-=-=-=-
I know a lot of this seems to be about me and my problems with what
is going on. But I just don't know how to deal with this in an
unschooling way of life. I totally get the no school part. But we
want to embrace the respectful living part as well. Dh is having a
bit of trouble with demanding that they do what is asked when asked
with no back talk. I am trying to get him to see differently on
this. But by the end of the day - especially if ds has been angry a
lot - I just want to go and cry and dh sometimes snaps and yells .. I
need help and direction from others who have experience with this.
Since I cannot confide in many people I am hoping I will find
guidance here.
-=-=-=-
Have you read Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child? It's a play-by-play
about respecting children in an easy-to-read Q&A format. It will change
your life.
-=-=-=-=-
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom. In one instance another mother had to
step up and "protect" her child from this kid because her own mom was
doing nothing.
-=-=-=-
You realize that this is NOT what we are talking about, right? I would
have taken mine away or sat right there *between* my child and others
or found something else to do. Doing *nothing* is neglect, and that's
NOT what we promote here.
-=-=-=-
Now my ds has not done this yet to strangers but he does it to us.
-=-=-=-
On the *up* side, that may be because he feels safe with you. He knows
he can be difficult, yet you'll still love and cherish him. THAT's a
good thing! <g>
Many kids are angels at school. But come home and are absolute horrors
with mom. They've struggled all day to be the perfect child, and
finally need a place to release all that anger and frustration they've
been hiding all day. Mom's the safe outlet.
-=-=-=--
And it was a real eyeopener that he could be on the
same path. How do I get off that path to peaceful, respectful,
happy, joyful life????
-=-=-=-
By seeing where he is now and understanding that he really doesn't want
to be this way either. He'd like to have a smooth life too. He's just
really, really little with very few skills available to him. He's
honestly doing the best he can with the limited abilities he has.
KNOW that, and you can start to help him cope.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Laura Beaudin
Hi there,
It sounds like you're really having a tough time.
The first thing I have to say is don't put him back in school for two reasons.
The first is that the behavior will not likely "change overnight"...in
fact, putting him in school will likely make it worse.
Secondly, if he is struggling in this way, the school will likely take
it into their own hands and either throw him in a special ed progra or
start suspending him when he bothers his classmates.
My suggestion is to firt, make an appointment with his pedeatrician
adn have a THoROUGH checkup done. Explain to him what's happening,
then ask that any physical causes be ruled out. My friend has a son
who would really act up and they found out that he had both hearing
AND vision problems. After you do a physical, if he is healthy and
still acting up, you might want to try having him seen by a child
psychiatrist.
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
Laura
Original message = = =
Does anyone here ever feel like quitting and just putting their kids
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
Yahoo! Groups Links
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
It sounds like you're really having a tough time.
The first thing I have to say is don't put him back in school for two reasons.
The first is that the behavior will not likely "change overnight"...in
fact, putting him in school will likely make it worse.
Secondly, if he is struggling in this way, the school will likely take
it into their own hands and either throw him in a special ed progra or
start suspending him when he bothers his classmates.
My suggestion is to firt, make an appointment with his pedeatrician
adn have a THoROUGH checkup done. Explain to him what's happening,
then ask that any physical causes be ruled out. My friend has a son
who would really act up and they found out that he had both hearing
AND vision problems. After you do a physical, if he is healthy and
still acting up, you might want to try having him seen by a child
psychiatrist.
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
Laura
Original message = = =
Does anyone here ever feel like quitting and just putting their kids
back in school? We are fairly new to unschooling. We pulled dd who
was in gr3 and ds who was in kindergarten out of public school this
October. Mostly because dd had very low self esteem because of
issues at school. Things were going great until early December and
we had to spend 5 weeks in another Provence (we are from Canada) due
to a family illness. This put a lot of stress on the kids and myself
being at my Mom's house. She says she is supportive of my decision
to unschool but she still thinks spanking is necessary to make my
kids listen and be good. So needless to say there was a bit of
negative feelings during that time on top of my Dad having a major
stoke.
I assumed that when we got back home everything would go back to
normal any we would be happy again. Well not the case! My son is
acting out verbally and physically alot!!! Hurting his sister, the
animals, our stuff and myself. He is a bit more controlled with my
husband but not completely. Everyone is miserable. I am trying my
best to be a good Mom. I know he is going through something
emotionally mostly having to do with Grandpa being so ill and not
responding to him due to the stroke. I have been trying to give him
more quality attention, always saying 'yes', being more
respectful,etc. I am trying to follow the Sandra Dodd website but it
does not seem to be working. He is increasingly mean. (I have no
idea what to do) I am finding that we cannot even go out anywhere
because we never know when he is going to "blow". This is not fair
to my dd who is most happy out and about. I feel pulled apart in two
directions and nobody is getting what they want or need. We run a
home based heating and air conditioning business so my husband works
ALOT. Like 12-14 hour days and when he gets home he is physically
and mentally exhausted and in no mood to deal with the kids. I feel
so alone with no support. I have no one to talk to because everybody
I know has their kids in school and they don't understand. They all
think I am crazy and if I let them know that things are not great
then they just say put them back in school. I have been to a few
unschooling group things but because ds never wants to go he is
miserable the whole time. This makes it hard to make new friends -
for all of us.
I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Maybe I just suck at
this and I am going to do more harm to my kids than school would.
(But then I couldn't very well even just put them back in school
because we have not done any school work this year - they would be
way behind.) Plus, I am scared my son is turning into a monster. I
don't know how to help him stop being so angry. My husband thinks my
problem is just winter blues as it is very cold here this past month.
My question is does anyone ever feel like this? And what should I be
saying to ds when he is hitting us or screaming at us. I feel like
everyone is angry and miserable and it is all my fault.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sue
Yahoo! Groups Links
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: laura.beaudin@...
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
-=-=-
I'm not picking on you, really, Laura.
But HOW would arbitrary consequences "such as no TV, time out"
actually HELP a child through a difficult time?
He needs MORE understanding and MORE help and MORE skills. Not FEWER.
Taking the TV away would help...how? By making him angrier and needier?
When a little one is lashing out, he can't handle having comfort
removed. He may actually NEED the TV or NEED *you* by him. Taking away
the thing or the person he NEEDS will only hurt and make him less
likely to trust you'll be there in the future to care for him.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: laura.beaudin@...
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
-=-=-
I'm not picking on you, really, Laura.
But HOW would arbitrary consequences "such as no TV, time out"
actually HELP a child through a difficult time?
He needs MORE understanding and MORE help and MORE skills. Not FEWER.
Taking the TV away would help...how? By making him angrier and needier?
When a little one is lashing out, he can't handle having comfort
removed. He may actually NEED the TV or NEED *you* by him. Taking away
the thing or the person he NEEDS will only hurt and make him less
likely to trust you'll be there in the future to care for him.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
susangould1
O.K. I get it. But what you do when he is hitting, screaming, etc...-
In the moment? He cannot be reasoned with during these times - so
having a talk with him will only make him angier.
Sue
In the moment? He cannot be reasoned with during these times - so
having a talk with him will only make him angier.
Sue
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: laura.beaudin@...
>
>
> In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
> actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
>
> -=-=-
>
> I'm not picking on you, really, Laura.
>
> But HOW would arbitrary consequences "such as no TV, time out"
> actually HELP a child through a difficult time?
>
> He needs MORE understanding and MORE help and MORE skills. Not
FEWER.
>
> Taking the TV away would help...how? By making him angrier and
needier?
>
> When a little one is lashing out, he can't handle having comfort
> removed. He may actually NEED the TV or NEED *you* by him. Taking
away
> the thing or the person he NEEDS will only hurt and make him less
> likely to trust you'll be there in the future to care for him.
>
> ~Kelly
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
Joanne O'N.
Of course! But we hang in there and are glad we did. Please feel free to e-mail me privately
if you would like more support.
Joanne O'N.
dh; Charlie
ds: Kevin (6)
seagullcaller@...
if you would like more support.
Joanne O'N.
dh; Charlie
ds: Kevin (6)
seagullcaller@...
Katharine Wise
Hi Sue,
I can totally understand where you're coming from -- I've triggered a similar discussion with a post about a conflict between my kids, one of whom (7yo) can be very aggressive and has horrible rages. A couple months ago, when he had a really bad spell, I was saying a lot of the same things you did in your post, including thinking about sending him to school (to protect his sibling!). As with your son, this behavior started kind of suddenly. Actually, it started not long after my dad died suddenly (he collapsed hiking) and we'd spent the month of December going back and forth to my mom's house. The kids hadn't been particularly close to Daddy, but I was deeply grieving.
I would suggest you go *buy* the book (I think you're refering to the Explosive Child). Ask your husband to read it too. It's not about unschooling, per se, at all, but the approach to the rages is compatible and he explains it really well.
I think the difference between that little girl at the playground and your child is that her mother wasn't doing *anything*. If her child couldn't interact with the other children appropriately, her mother should have been right there at her side, guiding her and interacting with her -- not *after* the aggression but before (or rather, in place of). Or maybe just not at the park at all, but instead having playdates at home with one other child. It's one thing if it happens once and you talk about it, but if it's the child's regular mode of interaction then clearly they need active supervision and guidance.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: susangould1 <ggould1@...>
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? <snip> I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it.
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can totally understand where you're coming from -- I've triggered a similar discussion with a post about a conflict between my kids, one of whom (7yo) can be very aggressive and has horrible rages. A couple months ago, when he had a really bad spell, I was saying a lot of the same things you did in your post, including thinking about sending him to school (to protect his sibling!). As with your son, this behavior started kind of suddenly. Actually, it started not long after my dad died suddenly (he collapsed hiking) and we'd spent the month of December going back and forth to my mom's house. The kids hadn't been particularly close to Daddy, but I was deeply grieving.
I would suggest you go *buy* the book (I think you're refering to the Explosive Child). Ask your husband to read it too. It's not about unschooling, per se, at all, but the approach to the rages is compatible and he explains it really well.
I think the difference between that little girl at the playground and your child is that her mother wasn't doing *anything*. If her child couldn't interact with the other children appropriately, her mother should have been right there at her side, guiding her and interacting with her -- not *after* the aggression but before (or rather, in place of). Or maybe just not at the park at all, but instead having playdates at home with one other child. It's one thing if it happens once and you talk about it, but if it's the child's regular mode of interaction then clearly they need active supervision and guidance.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: susangould1 <ggould1@...>
My main question is how should I be responding to ds when he gets so
angry? <snip> I have that book on hold
from the library but I am #8 in line for it. Maybe I will just go
and buy it.
Also, just recently we were at a thing with other homeschoolers and a
little girl was there probably about 6 or 7yrs old. She was sooooo
mean and aggressive to all the other kids - strangers. The mother
would just say don't talk like that - you need to be nice - always in
a normal voice. The girl had a nastily look on her face and was
obviously ignoring her mom.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura Beaudin
I think that there are two matters here. First is how to handle a
child who is having difficulty and the second one is TV>
In regards to children acting up. I don't believe in physical
punishments, sending a child "to their room" or time out in an area
away from the rest of the family. However, I feel that children need
to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence. IE. If
you throw something, you have to pick it up. If you hit your sister,
you don't get to play with her for a while.
Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they should be
allowed free reign to do what they want. If your daughter or son were
to start hitting you whenever the urge hits, would you allow it or
would you distract him from that behavior? I don't mean using
consequences as a form of punishment but rather, as a tool to show
them that for every cause, there is an action.
Takig away the TV or making them sit down is not having confort
removed, especially if mommy or daddy are right beside them giving
them hugs.
Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it. Hobbies and passtimes are virtually
non-existent, with the exception of going to the shopping malls. I had
a student come into my class this year who is almost 5, yet had never
colored or looked through a book. He had never handled scissors nor
sociallized with ANYONE other than his younger brother. He is
encouraged by his mother to be abusive to the mai (but that's another
story)...and this is a member of the royal family! Thak God, he was
able to gain lots of skills in our class (it's a montessori school)
but this is only one example of the damage TV has done to ths society.
I don't know a single young teenager here who hasn't memorized the
Buffy TV series, yet ask her what she does other than watch TV (or go
shopping) and she'll usually shrug. I was equally getting caught up in
TV until I deleted all teh Western TV channels from the satellite and
surprise, surprise, all of the sudden I have all of this free time.
The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watching
telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
for that.
TV is not all bad, documentaries are wonderful learning tools and it's
nice to watch a movie now and then, or the news for that matter but on
the whole, my personal experience has shown that TV causes much mor
edamage than benifits. When I return to Canada in the summer, it's my
intention to completely forgo the TV.
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that
TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance. It
stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
Just my two cents...
Laura
= = = Original message = = =
-----Original Message-----
From: laura.beaudin@...
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
-=-=-
I'm not picking on you, really, Laura.
But HOW would arbitrary consequences "such as no TV, time out"
actually HELP a child through a difficult time?
He needs MORE understanding and MORE help and MORE skills. Not FEWER.
Taking the TV away would help...how? By making him angrier and needier?
When a little one is lashing out, he can't handle having comfort
removed. He may actually NEED the TV or NEED *you* by him. Taking away
the thing or the person he NEEDS will only hurt and make him less
likely to trust you'll be there in the future to care for him.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
- Show quoted text -
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
child who is having difficulty and the second one is TV>
In regards to children acting up. I don't believe in physical
punishments, sending a child "to their room" or time out in an area
away from the rest of the family. However, I feel that children need
to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence. IE. If
you throw something, you have to pick it up. If you hit your sister,
you don't get to play with her for a while.
Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they should be
allowed free reign to do what they want. If your daughter or son were
to start hitting you whenever the urge hits, would you allow it or
would you distract him from that behavior? I don't mean using
consequences as a form of punishment but rather, as a tool to show
them that for every cause, there is an action.
Takig away the TV or making them sit down is not having confort
removed, especially if mommy or daddy are right beside them giving
them hugs.
Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it. Hobbies and passtimes are virtually
non-existent, with the exception of going to the shopping malls. I had
a student come into my class this year who is almost 5, yet had never
colored or looked through a book. He had never handled scissors nor
sociallized with ANYONE other than his younger brother. He is
encouraged by his mother to be abusive to the mai (but that's another
story)...and this is a member of the royal family! Thak God, he was
able to gain lots of skills in our class (it's a montessori school)
but this is only one example of the damage TV has done to ths society.
I don't know a single young teenager here who hasn't memorized the
Buffy TV series, yet ask her what she does other than watch TV (or go
shopping) and she'll usually shrug. I was equally getting caught up in
TV until I deleted all teh Western TV channels from the satellite and
surprise, surprise, all of the sudden I have all of this free time.
The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watching
telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
for that.
TV is not all bad, documentaries are wonderful learning tools and it's
nice to watch a movie now and then, or the news for that matter but on
the whole, my personal experience has shown that TV causes much mor
edamage than benifits. When I return to Canada in the summer, it's my
intention to completely forgo the TV.
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that
TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance. It
stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
Just my two cents...
Laura
= = = Original message = = =
-----Original Message-----
From: laura.beaudin@...
In the meantime, be patient and offer hiim consequences for his
actions (such as no tv, time out, etc..
-=-=-
I'm not picking on you, really, Laura.
But HOW would arbitrary consequences "such as no TV, time out"
actually HELP a child through a difficult time?
He needs MORE understanding and MORE help and MORE skills. Not FEWER.
Taking the TV away would help...how? By making him angrier and needier?
When a little one is lashing out, he can't handle having comfort
removed. He may actually NEED the TV or NEED *you* by him. Taking away
the thing or the person he NEEDS will only hurt and make him less
likely to trust you'll be there in the future to care for him.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
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- Show quoted text -
___________________________________________________________
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Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com
Sylvia Toyama
Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it.
****
It's not the TV, tho. The stupor results from living a life so segregated that one can't pursue one's joy. If women in Saudi Arabia are trapped in their homes, with nothing else but TV and video games to watch -- it's the fault of their imprisonment, not the TV they're offered for entertainment.
Blaming TV is like saying -- all that pretty bird in the cage does is look at itself in the mirror, so I'll get rid of the mirror, then he'll have to DO something. Captives will look for comfort wherever it can be found -- that doesn't make the comfort source the cause of their unhappiness.
*****
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance. It stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
*****
Reading does the same thing -- shall we throw out all the books, too?
Sylvia
Gary (dh)
Will (22) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (6)
Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown
http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it.
****
It's not the TV, tho. The stupor results from living a life so segregated that one can't pursue one's joy. If women in Saudi Arabia are trapped in their homes, with nothing else but TV and video games to watch -- it's the fault of their imprisonment, not the TV they're offered for entertainment.
Blaming TV is like saying -- all that pretty bird in the cage does is look at itself in the mirror, so I'll get rid of the mirror, then he'll have to DO something. Captives will look for comfort wherever it can be found -- that doesn't make the comfort source the cause of their unhappiness.
*****
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance. It stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
*****
Reading does the same thing -- shall we throw out all the books, too?
Sylvia
Gary (dh)
Will (22) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (6)
Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown
http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com
---------------------------------
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: laura.beaudin@...
In regards to children acting up. I don't believe in physical
punishments, sending a child "to their room" or time out in an area
away from the rest of the family. However, I feel that children need
to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence. IE. If
you throw something, you have to pick it up. If you hit your sister,
you don't get to play with her for a while.
-=-=-==-
So you're talking about parent-imposed consequences, right?
'Cause the *natural* consequence of throwing something in the floor is
that floor is littered.
The *natural* consequence of hitting your sister is that she may not
want to play with you for a while or even ever.
-=-=-=-=-
Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they should be
allowed free reign to do what they want. If your daughter or son were
to start hitting you whenever the urge hits, would you allow it or
would you distract him from that behavior?
-=-=-=-=-=-
If he's hitting me, there's a *reason*. As the mom, it's my
responsibility to help him figure out what's wrong and address that.
-=-=-==-=-
I don't mean using consequences as a form of punishment but rather, as
a tool to show
them that for every cause, there is an action.
=-=-=-=-=-
By making up a consequence?
It's a law of physics: for every action, there's an equal and opposite
reaction.
-=-=-==-=
Takig away the TV or making them sit down is not having confort
removed, especially if mommy or daddy are right beside them giving
them hugs.
-=-=-=-=-
It IS if it's not what he child wants---if it makes him angry and more
frustrated.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Secondly is television.
-=-=-=-=-=-
This is a whole 'nother can o' worms. Are you ready for this backlash?
-=-=--=-
I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it. Hobbies and passtimes are virtually
non-existent, with the exception of going to the shopping malls. I had
a student come into my class this year who is almost 5, yet had never
colored or looked through a book. He had never handled scissors nor
sociallized with ANYONE other than his younger brother. He is
encouraged by his mother to be abusive to the mai (but that's another
story)...and this is a member of the royal family!
-=-=-=-=-
DAMN! Television is POWERFUL! It's a wonder *anyone* gets *anything*
done *ever*!
-=-=-=-
Thak God, he was able to gain lots of skills in our class (it's a
montessori school)
but this is only one example of the damage TV has done to ths society.
-=-=-=-
Yeah---ban the box!
-=-=-=-=-
I don't know a single young teenager here who hasn't memorized the
Buffy TV series, yet ask her what she does other than watch TV (or go
shopping) and she'll usually shrug.
-=-=-=-=-
ANd the options all teenage girls in Saudi Arabia have is what?
-=-=-=-
I was equally getting caught up in
TV until I deleted all teh Western TV channels from the satellite and
surprise, surprise, all of the sudden I have all of this free time.
-=-=-=-=-
It helps to be smarter than the TV.
You mean you couldn't just turn it off and walk away? It holds that
kind of power over you?
Wow.
I have three tvs in this house. Amazingly, it doesn't hold that kind of
power over me. Why do you suppose that is?
-=-=-=-=-
The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watching
telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
for that.
-=-=-=-=-
I didn't know TVs could make teens sullen and insulting and rude. Good
to know, I guess. My first teen was never like that. Maybe I just
lucked out. Maybe I should ban the TV starting today so that my almost
11 year old won't become rude and insulting. But no hints of that yet.
Maybe it could possibly have been crappy parenting? Heavy peer
pressure? School?
-=-=-=-=-
TV is not all bad, documentaries are wonderful learning tools and it's
nice to watch a movie now and then, or the news for that matter but on
the whole, my personal experience has shown that TV causes much mor
edamage than benifits.
-=-=-=-=-
Sad. Just a simple change of perspective could make you see how
glorious tv is.
Oh---and to see that *you* have the power to turn off when you don't
want to watch.
-=-=-=-
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that
TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance.
-=-=-
I pay for a massage each week for that exact feeling! You mean I could
just watch TV?
-=-=-=
It stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
-=-=-=-
Not in my house. We got TiVo, which allows us to stop and rewind teh
action. No one's quiet here while watching. It's question after
question, laughing at jokes, making connections---all the time.
When we have guests or are playing games, we simpy TURN IT OFF to talk
without it in the background.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: laura.beaudin@...
In regards to children acting up. I don't believe in physical
punishments, sending a child "to their room" or time out in an area
away from the rest of the family. However, I feel that children need
to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence. IE. If
you throw something, you have to pick it up. If you hit your sister,
you don't get to play with her for a while.
-=-=-==-
So you're talking about parent-imposed consequences, right?
'Cause the *natural* consequence of throwing something in the floor is
that floor is littered.
The *natural* consequence of hitting your sister is that she may not
want to play with you for a while or even ever.
-=-=-=-=-
Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they should be
allowed free reign to do what they want. If your daughter or son were
to start hitting you whenever the urge hits, would you allow it or
would you distract him from that behavior?
-=-=-=-=-=-
If he's hitting me, there's a *reason*. As the mom, it's my
responsibility to help him figure out what's wrong and address that.
-=-=-==-=-
I don't mean using consequences as a form of punishment but rather, as
a tool to show
them that for every cause, there is an action.
=-=-=-=-=-
By making up a consequence?
It's a law of physics: for every action, there's an equal and opposite
reaction.
-=-=-==-=
Takig away the TV or making them sit down is not having confort
removed, especially if mommy or daddy are right beside them giving
them hugs.
-=-=-=-=-
It IS if it's not what he child wants---if it makes him angry and more
frustrated.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Secondly is television.
-=-=-=-=-=-
This is a whole 'nother can o' worms. Are you ready for this backlash?
-=-=--=-
I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it. Hobbies and passtimes are virtually
non-existent, with the exception of going to the shopping malls. I had
a student come into my class this year who is almost 5, yet had never
colored or looked through a book. He had never handled scissors nor
sociallized with ANYONE other than his younger brother. He is
encouraged by his mother to be abusive to the mai (but that's another
story)...and this is a member of the royal family!
-=-=-=-=-
DAMN! Television is POWERFUL! It's a wonder *anyone* gets *anything*
done *ever*!
-=-=-=-
Thak God, he was able to gain lots of skills in our class (it's a
montessori school)
but this is only one example of the damage TV has done to ths society.
-=-=-=-
Yeah---ban the box!
-=-=-=-=-
I don't know a single young teenager here who hasn't memorized the
Buffy TV series, yet ask her what she does other than watch TV (or go
shopping) and she'll usually shrug.
-=-=-=-=-
ANd the options all teenage girls in Saudi Arabia have is what?
-=-=-=-
I was equally getting caught up in
TV until I deleted all teh Western TV channels from the satellite and
surprise, surprise, all of the sudden I have all of this free time.
-=-=-=-=-
It helps to be smarter than the TV.
You mean you couldn't just turn it off and walk away? It holds that
kind of power over you?
Wow.
I have three tvs in this house. Amazingly, it doesn't hold that kind of
power over me. Why do you suppose that is?
-=-=-=-=-
The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watching
telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
for that.
-=-=-=-=-
I didn't know TVs could make teens sullen and insulting and rude. Good
to know, I guess. My first teen was never like that. Maybe I just
lucked out. Maybe I should ban the TV starting today so that my almost
11 year old won't become rude and insulting. But no hints of that yet.
Maybe it could possibly have been crappy parenting? Heavy peer
pressure? School?
-=-=-=-=-
TV is not all bad, documentaries are wonderful learning tools and it's
nice to watch a movie now and then, or the news for that matter but on
the whole, my personal experience has shown that TV causes much mor
edamage than benifits.
-=-=-=-=-
Sad. Just a simple change of perspective could make you see how
glorious tv is.
Oh---and to see that *you* have the power to turn off when you don't
want to watch.
-=-=-=-
I need to find the sources, but I also remember reading studies that
TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance.
-=-=-
I pay for a massage each week for that exact feeling! You mean I could
just watch TV?
-=-=-=
It stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
-=-=-=-
Not in my house. We got TiVo, which allows us to stop and rewind teh
action. No one's quiet here while watching. It's question after
question, laughing at jokes, making connections---all the time.
When we have guests or are playing games, we simpy TURN IT OFF to talk
without it in the background.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Melissa
I think you'll get a lot of feedback from this, but I wanted to point out two things. One is
that the situation you are undergoing in SA is no where similar to the typical. Saying that
watching television will create the same nature in all people, is flawed logic. In most
people's homes, they are not restricted in their daily lives. My kids have dozens of things
that they can choose from, and so unlimited television is just another tool to them.
(I also wanted to say in the interest of fairness that not *all* SA women are like that, I
know of two families here in our small town for school, who despite the restrictions have
spent a majority of their time sewing, cooking from scratch, organizing items for
homeless and orphans. Perhaps it's the westernized people that would seek schooling,
who would choose to leave behind their culture to focus on television)
The second thing I wanted to ask was that where do your children measure in in the say of
'completely forgoing television'? What if they ask for it? By limiting certain TV shows will
you be giving them more appeal? I would argue that no TV is bad, my kids have learned
something from everything they watch. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I am right
there, and they can look to me for feedback on behaviors, morals, etc. As well, when they
experiment with a certain behavior, I can recognize it for what it is, know it for what it is,
and live in the moment without overreacting.
Melissa
that the situation you are undergoing in SA is no where similar to the typical. Saying that
watching television will create the same nature in all people, is flawed logic. In most
people's homes, they are not restricted in their daily lives. My kids have dozens of things
that they can choose from, and so unlimited television is just another tool to them.
(I also wanted to say in the interest of fairness that not *all* SA women are like that, I
know of two families here in our small town for school, who despite the restrictions have
spent a majority of their time sewing, cooking from scratch, organizing items for
homeless and orphans. Perhaps it's the westernized people that would seek schooling,
who would choose to leave behind their culture to focus on television)
The second thing I wanted to ask was that where do your children measure in in the say of
'completely forgoing television'? What if they ask for it? By limiting certain TV shows will
you be giving them more appeal? I would argue that no TV is bad, my kids have learned
something from everything they watch. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I am right
there, and they can look to me for feedback on behaviors, morals, etc. As well, when they
experiment with a certain behavior, I can recognize it for what it is, know it for what it is,
and live in the moment without overreacting.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Laura Beaudin" <laura.beaudin@...> wrote:
>
> I think that there are two matters here. First is how to handle a
> child who is having difficulty and the second one is TV>
> Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
> because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
> inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
> reduced to a stupor because of it. Hobbies and passtimes are virtually
> non-existent, with the exception of going to the shopping malls. I had
> a student come into my class this year who is almost 5, yet had never
> colored or looked through a book. He had never handled scissors nor
> sociallized with ANYONE other than his younger brother. He is
> encouraged by his mother to be abusive to the mai (but that's another
> story)...and this is a member of the royal family! Thak God, he was
> able to gain lots of skills in our class (it's a montessori school)
> but this is only one example of the damage TV has done to ths society.
>
> I don't know a single young teenager here who hasn't memorized the
> Buffy TV series, yet ask her what she does other than watch TV (or go
> shopping) and she'll usually shrug. I was equally getting caught up in
> TV until I deleted all teh Western TV channels from the satellite and
> surprise, surprise, all of the sudden I have all of this free time.
>
> The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watching
> telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
> being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
> for that.
>
> TV is not all bad, documentaries are wonderful learning tools and it's
> nice to watch a movie now and then, or the news for that matter but on
> the whole, my personal experience has shown that TV causes much mor
> edamage than benifits. When I return to Canada in the summer, it's my
> intention to completely forgo the TV.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 10, 2007, at 3:08 AM, Laura Beaudin wrote:
are smart. They know the difference between a consequence that's
natural: eg, going out in the rain means you get wet, and a
consequence that a parent has full control over.
Kids don't hit other kids because they're mean. Kids hit because they
can't figure out how to get what they want in a way that is socially
acceptable. It's not merely a matter of information. Sometimes it's
learning to identify subtle feelings before they get to the breaking
point. Sometimes it's stress that we're unconsciously putting on
them. Sometimes it's feelings of being unloved. *Whatever* the
reason, the hitting is merely a symptom of something else.
Kids *do* need to hear "No" to hitting. But a simple firm no gets
that principle into the home atmosphere. Then move onto finding a
solution.
Even better is being aware of tiredness and irritation and diffusing
situations before they reach the hitting stage.
But rather than seeing children's actions as deliberate choices to be
bad, it's more helpful, more relationship building to see the actions
as a sign of needing help getting what they need. They don't have the
knowledge or don't have the skills to use the knowledge, or don't
have the maturity to handle the build up in their emotions.
Kids need our help not our control until they behave as we tell them to.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> However, I feel that children needThose aren't real consequences. Those are made up consequences. Kids
> to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence. IE. If
> you throw something, you have to pick it up. If you hit your sister,
> you don't get to play with her for a while.
are smart. They know the difference between a consequence that's
natural: eg, going out in the rain means you get wet, and a
consequence that a parent has full control over.
Kids don't hit other kids because they're mean. Kids hit because they
can't figure out how to get what they want in a way that is socially
acceptable. It's not merely a matter of information. Sometimes it's
learning to identify subtle feelings before they get to the breaking
point. Sometimes it's stress that we're unconsciously putting on
them. Sometimes it's feelings of being unloved. *Whatever* the
reason, the hitting is merely a symptom of something else.
Kids *do* need to hear "No" to hitting. But a simple firm no gets
that principle into the home atmosphere. Then move onto finding a
solution.
Even better is being aware of tiredness and irritation and diffusing
situations before they reach the hitting stage.
> Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they should beNo one here suggests never giving kids feedback on their actions.
> allowed free reign to do what they want.
But rather than seeing children's actions as deliberate choices to be
bad, it's more helpful, more relationship building to see the actions
as a sign of needing help getting what they need. They don't have the
knowledge or don't have the skills to use the knowledge, or don't
have the maturity to handle the build up in their emotions.
Kids need our help not our control until they behave as we tell them to.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Laura Beaudin"
<laura.beaudin@...> wrote:
that. Children are intrinsically motivated to explore cause-and-
effect relationships. Its possible to help them do that in ways that
are safe *and* supportive of their natural processes without
imposing made-up consequences.
statement?
Unschooling isn't about "allowing free reign" but its not about
being ruled by one's kids, either. Its a different way of looking at
relationships, based on open communication. That's really
challenging to conceptualize - my own experience is that I had to
understand it a *little bit* and then practice for awhile and
stretch that understanding.
Its true that children don't have the same skills and understanding
as adults, but that makes it all the more important to work toward
communicating with them in meaningful ways, rather than disregarding
the very real skills they do have in favor of "teaching them a
lesson".
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<laura.beaudin@...> wrote:
> I feel that children needWell, yes, but its not necessary to contrive ways for them to learn
> to learn from a young age that their action has a consequence.
that. Children are intrinsically motivated to explore cause-and-
effect relationships. Its possible to help them do that in ways that
are safe *and* supportive of their natural processes without
imposing made-up consequences.
>> Children are needy by nature but it doesn't mean that they shouldbe
> allowed free reign to do what they want.Replace the word "children" with "women" - still agree with the
statement?
Unschooling isn't about "allowing free reign" but its not about
being ruled by one's kids, either. Its a different way of looking at
relationships, based on open communication. That's really
challenging to conceptualize - my own experience is that I had to
understand it a *little bit* and then practice for awhile and
stretch that understanding.
Its true that children don't have the same skills and understanding
as adults, but that makes it all the more important to work toward
communicating with them in meaningful ways, rather than disregarding
the very real skills they do have in favor of "teaching them a
lesson".
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 10, 2007, at 3:08 AM, Laura Beaudin wrote:
insurmountable problem. TV can be a source of comfort.
TV is not the problem. The need for very bored women with few outlets
to self-comfort is the problem. Taking away TV might give the
illusion that the problem had gone away but it would just be buried
beneath other behavior. And I'm sure they had outlets for the boredom
and frustration before and I'd bet good money that there were a lot
of unhealthy practices.
If children are using TV as a way to comfort themselves -- as I did
after school and on weekends when I was a kid -- the solution isn't
to take away TV. The solution is to work at eliminating the stress
that's causing the need for comfort.
But unschooled kids shouldn't be using TV as a comfort for a stress
that we have the power to eliminate. We should be eliminating the
stress, not making ourselves feel better by eliminating the TV.
Deschooling kids are recovering from stress. Sometimes that means a
lot of TV (because it's relaxing *and* because it was often limited).
But without the stress, without the limits, kids do move onto other
things.
room when annoyed or insult my parents. (I had typical teenage
irritation but it was a combination of hormones and disconnection
with the family caused by school and traditional parenting.)
TV doesn't cause people to disconnect with each other. People choose
TV as a solution to other problems (stress, disconnection, boredom).
That doesn't make TV the cause of the disconnection any more than
food is the cause of people being overweight.
People have problems. They seek solutions to those problems.
Sometimes they choose solutions that make them feel better in the
moment but don't get at the root cause of the problem and sometimes
makes the problem worse.
That doesn't make the solution a demon. It doesn't help find a
solution to put the responsibility for behavior on an outside source.
The responsibility for our choices lies squarely with us.
But unschooling is about opening our children's worlds, helping them
explore *their* interests, not narrowing them.
While moms can choose to live their own philosophies, if their
choices limit their children, they'll be undermining unschooling and
joyful living.
Some moms are vegetarian while allowing their children freedom of
food choice. Some moms forgo plastic while allowing their children to
collect Happy Meal toys. Adopting a philosophy is choosing to make
our lives more difficult in order to get something that we feel is
better. Imposing a philosophy on someone else, making their lives
more inconvenient for the sake of our philosophy, is not a way to
build better relationships. It puts a philosophy ahead of family and
tears down relationships.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/tv%20and%
20video%20games/argumentsagainsttv.html
Listeners might ask questions. They might have a point to make that
couldn't wait, but basically we'd be listening to the story.
TV is a *source* of conversation for our family. It's a connection we
all share together. We do pause the show to talk about it. But, like
reading a book, we are focused on watching the story unfold.
TV is no different than books. They're stories we can all enjoy and
share the experience with each other. People *say* TV supplies all
the images for you but those people are obviously not visual
learners! Visuals are helpful and inspiring -- and for artists and
writers especially -- necessary in order to build our own visuals
from. Art, as they say, is not created in a vacuum. To create visuals
it's necessary to have a wealth of visuals. TV is *one* source and an
especially valuable source for places and things we'll never be able
to visit.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia whereNo. People there have found TV to be a solution to what feels like an
> because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
> inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
> reduced to a stupor because of it.
insurmountable problem. TV can be a source of comfort.
TV is not the problem. The need for very bored women with few outlets
to self-comfort is the problem. Taking away TV might give the
illusion that the problem had gone away but it would just be buried
beneath other behavior. And I'm sure they had outlets for the boredom
and frustration before and I'd bet good money that there were a lot
of unhealthy practices.
If children are using TV as a way to comfort themselves -- as I did
after school and on weekends when I was a kid -- the solution isn't
to take away TV. The solution is to work at eliminating the stress
that's causing the need for comfort.
But unschooled kids shouldn't be using TV as a comfort for a stress
that we have the power to eliminate. We should be eliminating the
stress, not making ourselves feel better by eliminating the TV.
Deschooling kids are recovering from stress. Sometimes that means a
lot of TV (because it's relaxing *and* because it was often limited).
But without the stress, without the limits, kids do move onto other
things.
> The worst behaviors that I developped as a teen were from watchingI also grew up watching "American sitcoms" and I didn't run from the
> telavision. From running out of the room when annoyed to insulting and
> being rude to my parents, I have the lovely american sitcoms to thank
> for that.
room when annoyed or insult my parents. (I had typical teenage
irritation but it was a combination of hormones and disconnection
with the family caused by school and traditional parenting.)
TV doesn't cause people to disconnect with each other. People choose
TV as a solution to other problems (stress, disconnection, boredom).
That doesn't make TV the cause of the disconnection any more than
food is the cause of people being overweight.
People have problems. They seek solutions to those problems.
Sometimes they choose solutions that make them feel better in the
moment but don't get at the root cause of the problem and sometimes
makes the problem worse.
That doesn't make the solution a demon. It doesn't help find a
solution to put the responsibility for behavior on an outside source.
The responsibility for our choices lies squarely with us.
> When I return to Canada in the summer, it's myAnd lots of people happily choose no TV or no electricity or no plastic.
> intention to completely forgo the TV.
But unschooling is about opening our children's worlds, helping them
explore *their* interests, not narrowing them.
While moms can choose to live their own philosophies, if their
choices limit their children, they'll be undermining unschooling and
joyful living.
Some moms are vegetarian while allowing their children freedom of
food choice. Some moms forgo plastic while allowing their children to
collect Happy Meal toys. Adopting a philosophy is choosing to make
our lives more difficult in order to get something that we feel is
better. Imposing a philosophy on someone else, making their lives
more inconvenient for the sake of our philosophy, is not a way to
build better relationships. It puts a philosophy ahead of family and
tears down relationships.
> but I also remember reading studies thatThere's a discussion on the arguments against TV here:
> TV can lower your metabolism and puts you into a form of trance.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/tv%20and%
20video%20games/argumentsagainsttv.html
> ItAnd if I were to read a book aloud, it would also stunt conversation.
> stunts all conversation in the room (most times).
Listeners might ask questions. They might have a point to make that
couldn't wait, but basically we'd be listening to the story.
TV is a *source* of conversation for our family. It's a connection we
all share together. We do pause the show to talk about it. But, like
reading a book, we are focused on watching the story unfold.
TV is no different than books. They're stories we can all enjoy and
share the experience with each other. People *say* TV supplies all
the images for you but those people are obviously not visual
learners! Visuals are helpful and inspiring -- and for artists and
writers especially -- necessary in order to build our own visuals
from. Art, as they say, is not created in a vacuum. To create visuals
it's necessary to have a wealth of visuals. TV is *one* source and an
especially valuable source for places and things we'll never be able
to visit.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Those aren't real consequences. Those are made up consequences. Kids are smart. They know the difference between a consequence that's natural: eg, going out in the rain means you get wet, and a consequence that a parent has full control over.
****
This reminded me of something I overheard last summer at a local park. The Mom was trying to get her son -- 5 or 6yo? -- stop doing whatever was doing. She said, "If you don't stop that, there will be a big consequence." Meaning she was going to manufacture a 'consquence' for his misbehavior. He chose not to comply and take his chances with her 'consequence.' I have to wonder if kids who are subjected to invented consequences have any real concept of what the natural consequences in life are.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
This reminded me of something I overheard last summer at a local park. The Mom was trying to get her son -- 5 or 6yo? -- stop doing whatever was doing. She said, "If you don't stop that, there will be a big consequence." Meaning she was going to manufacture a 'consquence' for his misbehavior. He chose not to comply and take his chances with her 'consequence.' I have to wonder if kids who are subjected to invented consequences have any real concept of what the natural consequences in life are.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
is very visual and also loves to draw. She has been experimenting
with perspective and also drawing in ways that express emotion. She
makes direct use of images and styles she sees on tv to explore
these concepts. Since her skills are still pretty "basic" - only
slightly more elaborate than stick figures - she finds cartoons to
be a rich source of information on how to better express near/far,
foreground/background, movement/stillness, and assorted emotions.
Classical art and drawing from life don't really help her do that,
but seeing the ways *other* artists have solved the same problems in
cartoon form does.
Some of her drawing are "just" the characters she sees on tv - but
I've taken drawing classes where I was asked to replicate specific
famous works or styles. She's using the same concept in her own
process.
I want to point out that I'm talking about pretty "normal" kinds of
drawings for a 5yr old. She's not a prodigy or something, just a
regular kid. I'm saying this not to belittle her, but now and again
I'll hear an arguement against unschooling along the lines of "oh,
well, that's fine for Gifted kids, but not everyone."
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
ps couldn't resist the tiny little change in the subject, since I
just looooove quiLting ;)
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
>People *say* TV supplies alland
> the images for you but those people are obviously not visual
> learners! Visuals are helpful and inspiring -- and for artists
> writers especially -- necessary in order to build our own visualsvisuals
> from. Art, as they say, is not created in a vacuum. To create
> it's necessary to have a wealth of visuals. TV is *one* source andan
> especially valuable source for places and things we'll never beable
> to visit.I have some current real-life experience with this - my 5yr old, Mo,
is very visual and also loves to draw. She has been experimenting
with perspective and also drawing in ways that express emotion. She
makes direct use of images and styles she sees on tv to explore
these concepts. Since her skills are still pretty "basic" - only
slightly more elaborate than stick figures - she finds cartoons to
be a rich source of information on how to better express near/far,
foreground/background, movement/stillness, and assorted emotions.
Classical art and drawing from life don't really help her do that,
but seeing the ways *other* artists have solved the same problems in
cartoon form does.
Some of her drawing are "just" the characters she sees on tv - but
I've taken drawing classes where I was asked to replicate specific
famous works or styles. She's using the same concept in her own
process.
I want to point out that I'm talking about pretty "normal" kinds of
drawings for a 5yr old. She's not a prodigy or something, just a
regular kid. I'm saying this not to belittle her, but now and again
I'll hear an arguement against unschooling along the lines of "oh,
well, that's fine for Gifted kids, but not everyone."
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
ps couldn't resist the tiny little change in the subject, since I
just looooove quiLting ;)
Ren Allen
~~
Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it.~~
Sounds like segregation and oppression are the problems, not television.
Great scapegoat I'm sure, but it hasn't happened in other countries
that way, so that's far too simplistic.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Secondly is television. I'm currently living in Saudi Arabia where
because of such nasty segregation, most women spend their free time
inside and either weatch TV or play video games. This country has been
reduced to a stupor because of it.~~
Sounds like segregation and oppression are the problems, not television.
Great scapegoat I'm sure, but it hasn't happened in other countries
that way, so that's far too simplistic.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~
I have three tvs in this house. Amazingly, it doesn't hold that kind of
power over me. Why do you suppose that is?~~
Hmmmm....we have five televisions for six people, three computers and
almost every game system ever developed, it's a wonder we do anything
other than sit and drool!!;) ha!
Yet we lead active, interesting lives that don't revolve around any of
the above....ok, except World of Warcraft. On raid nights, you better
get home on time! Forget tv...it's all about raids.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
I have three tvs in this house. Amazingly, it doesn't hold that kind of
power over me. Why do you suppose that is?~~
Hmmmm....we have five televisions for six people, three computers and
almost every game system ever developed, it's a wonder we do anything
other than sit and drool!!;) ha!
Yet we lead active, interesting lives that don't revolve around any of
the above....ok, except World of Warcraft. On raid nights, you better
get home on time! Forget tv...it's all about raids.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~she finds cartoons to
be a rich source of information on how to better express near/far,
foreground/background, movement/stillness, and assorted emotions.~~
Jalen loves to dress up like characters he loves, from both tv and
video games. He walked into the room tonight with a clear camera
filter strapped over one eye and a stopwatch in his hand....giggling
madly.
"I'm Mr. Harriman" (think Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends) and we
all cracked up. He DID look like that stuffy bunny with his monocle.
Sometimes he's Link from the Zelda games (his favorite by far) but
it's always some kind of costume. Constant creativity.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
be a rich source of information on how to better express near/far,
foreground/background, movement/stillness, and assorted emotions.~~
Jalen loves to dress up like characters he loves, from both tv and
video games. He walked into the room tonight with a clear camera
filter strapped over one eye and a stopwatch in his hand....giggling
madly.
"I'm Mr. Harriman" (think Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends) and we
all cracked up. He DID look like that stuffy bunny with his monocle.
Sometimes he's Link from the Zelda games (his favorite by far) but
it's always some kind of costume. Constant creativity.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Anastasia
"ok, except World of Warcraft. On raid nights, you better
4 tv's, a DVD player, a VCR, 3 computers, and every game and system
created.. and we are not drooling passively with glazed eyes. ;-) We're
enjoying what this life has to offer, including the "box." =)
-Ana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> get home on time! Forget tv...it's all about raids.:)"Haha this is our weekend nights as well. =)
>
4 tv's, a DVD player, a VCR, 3 computers, and every game and system
created.. and we are not drooling passively with glazed eyes. ;-) We're
enjoying what this life has to offer, including the "box." =)
-Ana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Peters
What's funny is that we were very ANTI-box/electronics before
unschooling. Over the last 5 years, we've accumulated 3 cell phones
(one with a Bluetooth), 2 TV's (one with basic cable), 2 VCRS, 2 DVD
players, 2 computers (would be 3 but the laptop needs repair), a
GameBoy, a MP3 player, and our most recent addition...a PS2! Not to
mention our Netflix and cable-internet subscriptions.
For nearly 10 years I would have died had someone brought a game
system in my home. Now, it's just another family gathering. The
kids and DH don't like to play the 2 player games...instead they all
curl up in the bed and pass the controller around so they can
accumulate more stuff and better scores. Everyone is laying there
cackling and rooting for the others. And I *thought* "boxes" would
isolate everyone!!?? We're actually MORE connected now.
Julie Peters
--- In [email protected], Anastasia
<witchymama2@...> wrote:
unschooling. Over the last 5 years, we've accumulated 3 cell phones
(one with a Bluetooth), 2 TV's (one with basic cable), 2 VCRS, 2 DVD
players, 2 computers (would be 3 but the laptop needs repair), a
GameBoy, a MP3 player, and our most recent addition...a PS2! Not to
mention our Netflix and cable-internet subscriptions.
For nearly 10 years I would have died had someone brought a game
system in my home. Now, it's just another family gathering. The
kids and DH don't like to play the 2 player games...instead they all
curl up in the bed and pass the controller around so they can
accumulate more stuff and better scores. Everyone is laying there
cackling and rooting for the others. And I *thought* "boxes" would
isolate everyone!!?? We're actually MORE connected now.
Julie Peters
--- In [email protected], Anastasia
<witchymama2@...> wrote:
>We're
> "ok, except World of Warcraft. On raid nights, you better
>
> > get home on time! Forget tv...it's all about raids.:)"
> >
>
>
>
> Haha this is our weekend nights as well. =)
>
> 4 tv's, a DVD player, a VCR, 3 computers, and every game and system
> created.. and we are not drooling passively with glazed eyes. ;-)
> enjoying what this life has to offer, including the "box." =)
>
> -Ana
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Vickisue Gray
Lol Kelly,
I loved your responses. It reminded me of a conversation I had today with my mother.
It turns out in all her bragging about her other grandchildren and the way they are
being raised, that they are accomplishing less and losing that natural curiosity so abundant in my kids.
I heard the 'oh..TV is evil....video games...aweful....(and my favorite).... she is trying by forcing him to read twenty minutes a day!
Wow. Do I feel sorry for my nephews. Freedom to learn, explore, create, and just be, is a much nicer way to live. I'm glad we have those choices.
Vicki
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I loved your responses. It reminded me of a conversation I had today with my mother.
It turns out in all her bragging about her other grandchildren and the way they are
being raised, that they are accomplishing less and losing that natural curiosity so abundant in my kids.
I heard the 'oh..TV is evil....video games...aweful....(and my favorite).... she is trying by forcing him to read twenty minutes a day!
Wow. Do I feel sorry for my nephews. Freedom to learn, explore, create, and just be, is a much nicer way to live. I'm glad we have those choices.
Vicki
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
"oh, well, that's fine for Gifted kids, but not everyone."
Oh, how I've come to dislike this sentence. People keep
telling me that's why unschooling works for us. Has it never
occurred to them that maybe my kids are "gifted" BECAUSE
of the unschooling principles of feeding their interests and
spending time answering their questions?
Vicki
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh, how I've come to dislike this sentence. People keep
telling me that's why unschooling works for us. Has it never
occurred to them that maybe my kids are "gifted" BECAUSE
of the unschooling principles of feeding their interests and
spending time answering their questions?
Vicki
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
I wanted to weigh in on this, because we just finished a very interesting weekend. Josh's
party was yesterday, and the plan was a video game party. In our house, we have three
tv's, one with cable, five gaming systems, two vcrs and dvd players, five gameboys and
two DS's. My kids can take them or leave them. We can have days of gaming, and then
days without. The kids who came to the party however, all come from very limited homes.
One has to earn video time, point per point, another can't play until all chores and
homework are done. Three come from a home where no tv is allowed, unless it's
educational or religious, no video games at all. Two more have TV, but parents have
ultimate control and they have to share a GBA. Last two from a house where tv/gaming is
limited as punishments.
I was amazed to see how very dedicated some kids were to the video games. It was painful
really, to see how emotionally dedicated they were, to getting a fair share of time.
Fortunately the girls totally understood this, and were able to step back and let the guys
gorge themselves. "We can play whenever we want, we're lucky to have you..." Awww. It
wasn't that long ago that I was pretty limiting on what I 'allowed' the kids to watch.
Today I took Josh shopping, and there was a mom who was looking at the games next to
us. She kept asking me what the rating was for this game or that, and I had no idea. She
was astonished, and asked me finally, "Well, how do you know it's okay for the kids to
play?" Um. Because I play with them? That didn't go over well, but her sons were okay with
it.
Melissa
party was yesterday, and the plan was a video game party. In our house, we have three
tv's, one with cable, five gaming systems, two vcrs and dvd players, five gameboys and
two DS's. My kids can take them or leave them. We can have days of gaming, and then
days without. The kids who came to the party however, all come from very limited homes.
One has to earn video time, point per point, another can't play until all chores and
homework are done. Three come from a home where no tv is allowed, unless it's
educational or religious, no video games at all. Two more have TV, but parents have
ultimate control and they have to share a GBA. Last two from a house where tv/gaming is
limited as punishments.
I was amazed to see how very dedicated some kids were to the video games. It was painful
really, to see how emotionally dedicated they were, to getting a fair share of time.
Fortunately the girls totally understood this, and were able to step back and let the guys
gorge themselves. "We can play whenever we want, we're lucky to have you..." Awww. It
wasn't that long ago that I was pretty limiting on what I 'allowed' the kids to watch.
Today I took Josh shopping, and there was a mom who was looking at the games next to
us. She kept asking me what the rating was for this game or that, and I had no idea. She
was astonished, and asked me finally, "Well, how do you know it's okay for the kids to
play?" Um. Because I play with them? That didn't go over well, but her sons were okay with
it.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Julie Peters" <julieannpeters@...> wrote:
>
> What's funny is that we were very ANTI-box/electronics before
> unschooling. Over the last 5 years, we've accumulated 3 cell phones
> (one with a Bluetooth), 2 TV's (one with basic cable), 2 VCRS, 2 DVD
> players, 2 computers (would be 3 but the laptop needs repair), a
> GameBoy, a MP3 player, and our most recent addition...a PS2! Not to
> mention our Netflix and cable-internet subscriptions.