Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi all,



I have been reading for awhile now and really appreciate all of your efforts
to help us learn about unschooling.



So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting go. Not a
big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you have any
ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was happening for
us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did my dd
feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost in my
parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally let go of
like some of you ladies have.



Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me. I mean really horrible screaming and crying and hitting
and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to not respond
in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off. Yesterday it
dawned on me it was hunger, so I suggested it, she screamed at me even more.
Later when she was calmer we talked about it and I asked her if she thought
she had been screaming at me because she was hungry, yes she agreed. So
today when it started again, I suggested it and she screamed even more. I
find this behaviour really hard to take and unacceptable. Ok. if there
wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't acknowledge
it? That is hardly fair to anyone else in this family. As soon as she eats
she is in a different place. This has only started since I have relaxed a
bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to the way
it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there was
healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.



That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide" and
then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. Like tonight, we
are getting ready to go away for the weekend, so for the last few trips she
has packed her own little strawberry shortcake suitcase and I have just
helped with suggests of appropriate clothing for number of days and
temperature. So tonight a weekend in a place that will be 30 + (Celsius) so
summer clothes are in. So first she takes about 25 outfits out of her
closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out her
velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that isn't
quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and tops? So she
pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos. HUH???? I am sorry
I just lost it. these are not things she chooses to wear at home in this
weather and she knows where we are going. I didn't handle it well and
learned really fast that I was upset because I thought she was being
unreasonable. So then I say ok. pack what you want go ahead and try to
leave... well she screams at me that she wants me to stay. So I guess the
message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her to I will
leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for herself
but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if she
doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the message I
am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that isn't good.
So how do I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took the
leotards and the top and the shorts, so when we get there she can actually
wear it.



I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read. But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?



I just feel so frustrated by all this. any thoughts or suggestions? Oh and
be gentle please:-)



Thanks in advance, oh and we are away this weekend, so I might not respond
too quickly, but I appreciate all suggestions,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steven Cox

Hi,

There's alot to be said for the conventional wisdom of dressing for the weather and eating nutritious foods. And young children need and want parents advice about such things--unless they have been accustomed to having power struggles with the parent over clothes and food or have never had to make decisions for themselves.

There are virtually as many theories about food as their are people, it seems to me :-) (vegetarian is best, or omnivorous is best, or paleolithic is best, or low fat is best, or high fat is best or organic is best or low carb is best and on and on). I have had a change in my health and have been researching food theories, and find alot of conflicting info. Anyway, it might be good to think that you and your child(ren) are exploring food, finding what works best for them and you. If a child is losing it 'cause she's over hungry, chances are she wasn't offered food soon enough. Or food that she likes in a way that she likes it. Its ok to suggest eating and what to eat--its how you do it that's so important. Sometimes it helps me to think of my kids as guests in my house--because then I know how to talk to them respectfully. Its sad, but true, for me it is easier to talk respectfully to someone else's children, especially when I'm stressed. Also its important to not get mad at her if she forgets to eat and gets overwhelmed. BTW, I've seen really happy kids, hardly eat at all for most of the day and then chow down at dinner. Hungry does not have to =unhappy. Its best to have a full tummy, of course, but stress and feeling coerced is what causes most melt-downs. She likely will make mistakes, like eating too much sweets or simple carbs and end up not feeling so good. IME kids usually self correct for this. When you're grocery shopping, or eating, its ok to comment on nutrition, but it shouldn't be harping or judgemental. Food is for nourishment, I think, but enjoying the whole experience of eating is what its all about.

The whole packing thing could have been so fun. Her choices were great. Lots of people overpack and choose the wrong clothes. Shorts and t-shirts are small. She could have found out what fit in the suitcase or bag that she wanted to bring. Sometimes, parents are embarassed by their kids choices in clothes or whatever. I love them! But I would get embarassed if I was with a child with snarly hair or something. Whatever you think is good, like matching clothes or combed hair, you can show your child using yourself as an example. But be happy if they choose otherwise. Children are often attracted to what makes us happy. I'm not saying this to manipulate children into doing what we want; but if what we want is genuinely a good idea, the enthusiasm we have for it is quite contagious.

The shift toward happiness and letting go can be really hard for a parent who is used to giving dour directives. I'm not saying this is you (I'm saying it is/was me--I keep working on it :-))

Leslie


----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:28 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go


Hi all,



I have been reading for awhile now and really appreciate all of your efforts
to help us learn about unschooling.



So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting go. Not a
big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you have any
ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was happening for
us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did my dd
feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost in my
parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally let go of
like some of you ladies have.



Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me. I mean really horrible screaming and crying and hitting
and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to not respond
in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off. Yesterday it
dawned on me it was hunger, so I suggested it, she screamed at me even more.
Later when she was calmer we talked about it and I asked her if she thought
she had been screaming at me because she was hungry, yes she agreed. So
today when it started again, I suggested it and she screamed even more. I
find this behaviour really hard to take and unacceptable. Ok. if there
wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't acknowledge
it? That is hardly fair to anyone else in this family. As soon as she eats
she is in a different place. This has only started since I have relaxed a
bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to the way
it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there was
healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.



That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide" and
then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. Like tonight, we
are getting ready to go away for the weekend, so for the last few trips she
has packed her own little strawberry shortcake suitcase and I have just
helped with suggests of appropriate clothing for number of days and
temperature. So tonight a weekend in a place that will be 30 + (Celsius) so
summer clothes are in. So first she takes about 25 outfits out of her
closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out her
velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that isn't
quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and tops? So she
pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos. HUH???? I am sorry
I just lost it. these are not things she chooses to wear at home in this
weather and she knows where we are going. I didn't handle it well and
learned really fast that I was upset because I thought she was being
unreasonable. So then I say ok. pack what you want go ahead and try to
leave... well she screams at me that she wants me to stay. So I guess the
message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her to I will
leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for herself
but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if she
doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the message I
am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that isn't good.
So how do I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took the
leotards and the top and the shorts, so when we get there she can actually
wear it.



I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read. But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?



I just feel so frustrated by all this. any thoughts or suggestions? Oh and
be gentle please:-)



Thanks in advance, oh and we are away this weekend, so I might not respond
too quickly, but I appreciate all suggestions,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting go.
Not a
big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you have any
ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was happening for
us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did my dd
feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost in my
parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally let go of
like some of you ladies have.>>>

Many people feel gradually is better. In terms of food it is just saying
"yes" more and more often rather than making a "declaration" of some kind.

<<<Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as
good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me.>>>

You do not have to wait for her to ask you for food, or permission to eat.
What I do when Jayn is clearly very absorbed in play, and may be getting
hungry, is simply bring her a sandwich or some sliced fruit or yoghurt (or
some combination of food that she usually likes) and put it down near her.
She usually eats some or all of it.

If the food you are less keen on is more accessible to her, naturally that
will be the first grabbed. If there are sliced apples, and bowls of nuts,
and ham rolls, and cubed cheese, and so on, immediately available that may
be easier.

<<<I mean really horrible screaming and crying and hitting
and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to not respond
in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off.>>>

When Jayn does this, I tend to hold her gently at arms length - to save my
face - and I tell her fairly forcefully to take some deep breaths. Sometimes
works. We are still nursing, so that also helps - both with becoming calm
and getting some good food in.


<<<That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide"
and then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. >>>

It's really great that you are grasping this about yourself. It is hard to
look at yourself and admit imperfections.

<<<<So I guess the
message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her to I will
leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for herself
but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if she
doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the message I
am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that isn't
good.>>>

It *is* good that you are seeing it, however.

Frankly this stuff about the clothes to pack is beyond trivial, especially
in comparison to the control issue behind it that you are seeing. If it
makes it easier for you to let go I'll tell you this: Jayn often wears her
winter clothes in summer (SoCal) - amazing me with her ability to stay cool
anyway. She often combines her princess type dress up clothes in creative
and ridiculous seeming ways that end up looking cool. She also changes
several times in a day, and takes (a lot) longer to make choices than I do,
and often wears her leotards as clothes.

Next time help her fold and pack what she wants to and will fit in - without
comment or editorializing. Then quietly pack a few more weather appropriate
additional items in your suitcase. Do this every time until the trust
between you is restored and she is ready to ask you for advice on what to
pack. Be prepared to be cheerful if it's rejected if she deems your ideas
less worthy than her own.

There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake in the
outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have strewed.
It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is rejected,
rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.

<<<I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help.>>>>

Unschooling is exactly helping children to do what they want, with as much
help as they ask for, of the kind they ask for, including simple
unconditional encouragement. If you don't want to help her, you will find it
harder to unschool as she ages.

<<<<Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read. But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?>>>>

How can we help but have opinions? They are not the same as making
judgments. We can choose how to express them - and more importantly if we
should express them at all. Will the opinion you express increase your
little girl's confidence in herself and trust in you? If no, then I suggest
biting your tongue. Is it a life and limb threatening safety issue? That's a
more reasonable thing to express your *unasked for* opinion about.


Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004

Robyn Coburn

<<<< But I would get embarassed if I was with a child with snarly hair or
something. Whatever you think is good, like matching clothes or combed hair,
you can show your child using yourself as an example.>>>>

Oh well, I guess you won't want to be around Jayn.

Sometimes modeling takes a looooooooong time to be effective, but I do agree
that it is the only thing that is, if being happy is the foremost goal.

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/16/2004 1:41:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:

Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me.<snip> This has only started since I have relaxed a
bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to the way
it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there was
healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.<<<

How about making sure there is healthful, nutritionally dense food always
available? Rather than "just leave it up to her", why don't you make sure that
there's some fresh fruit cut up and some cheeses sliced and some chicken with
ranch dip on a plate? Take a "monkey platter" (a plate full of nutritious
finger foods) to her while she's playing? If it's there, at her fingertips, I
doubt she'd refuse. She'd probably gobble it up and ask for more!


>>>>>That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide"
and
then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. <snip> So how do
I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took the leotards and the
top and the shorts, so when we get there she can actually wear it. <<<<

I'd give her a small bag for the trip to pack whatever she likes. Then I'd
pack the things I think she'd REALLY prefer in my own bag. That way, *you're*
happy, *she's* happy, and she has all the clothes she might need/want.



>>>>>I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read. But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?<<<<

It's about helping AND about letting her work some things out for herself.
It's not either/or. It's both. It's about sharing your opinion, but being OK
with her rejection of it. If it's a trusting relationship, she will more than
likely honor your thoughts/opinions/concerns even IF she decides to make
another choice.

If you *are * there to help out, you can make suggestions and help her find
her way. If you "disappear", she'll be left alone to struggle and drown. If
she knows you won't be there for her, she may quit looking for your assistance
at all.

It's not about drawing lines. It's about sharing thoughts and ideas and
tossing them around to see what fits. Making small, but serious, decisions *now*
will make it easier to make bigger, more serious decisions later. And she
*needs* your input and your wisdom. She might reject it <g>, but she'll learn
from that learning-take and make a better decision next time.

Maybe if you could be more specific? Maybe I'm not understanding what you
mean.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:41:06 AM Central Standard Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:

Ok. if there
wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't acknowledge
it?


~~~

There is an easy fix to it, now that she has the experience of knowing what
it's like to be so hungry she's hysterical.

At a calm and intimate moment when she seems receptive, maybe at bedtime(?)
speak with her about these "hungry uglies". Brainstorm with her about how
they can be prevented. Can she choose foods with less sugar? Can she ask you
to make her a scrambled egg to go along with the sugary cereal? These things
have to be done way before the pattern emerges that leads to the behavior.
If you think back over the last few days you shoudl be able to be notice a
pattern of time between something sugary or nothing since waking, to when the
tantrum occurs. Help her notice it and learn about her body's response to
foods.

Offering food freedom doesn't mean we never offer our kids ideas on how to
eat healthy. We used to have hungry uglies after donuts for breakfast, very
predictable. After I figured it out, it was easy to suggest that he have an
egg or a slice of bacon with his donut. Since he liked eggs and bacon, and
understood the problem he was having (even at 3 or 4, he understood it in
simple terms) and he didn't like it, he'd usually eat a little. He'd eat less
donut, too, because he was full faster.

A lot of preventing meltdowns is seeing them coming and distracting or
taking other steps. These hunger related meltdowns can be lessened in the same
way, without controlling her food choices. Unschooled kids are not living in a
vacuum of relationship. We interact with them to help them get what they
need and they learn from their choices.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jennifer Altenbach

[[[[<<<Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and
some as
good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she
is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has
had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming
and
hysterical at me.>>>

You do not have to wait for her to ask you for food, or permission to
eat.
What I do when Jayn is clearly very absorbed in play, and may be getting
hungry, is simply bring her a sandwich or some sliced fruit or yoghurt
(or
some combination of food that she usually likes) and put it down near
her.
She usually eats some or all of it. ]]]]]

Another thing that works for me with my son is to make myself a big
plate of good food and then sit down near him to eat it. He is much
more likely to come over and ask for some than he is to eat if I suggest
it. He's 4 so he is not very receptive to my suggestions lately! At a
restaurant he will often say he doesn't want to eat anything so I'll
tell him that's fine, he doesn't have to but then I'll be sure to order
something extra that I know he likes and I'll say it's "in case the baby
wants some". Once it's on the table he always eats some.



[[[Frankly this stuff about the clothes to pack is beyond trivial,
especially
in comparison to the control issue behind it that you are seeing. If it
makes it easier for you to let go I'll tell you this: Jayn often wears
her
winter clothes in summer (SoCal) - amazing me with her ability to stay
cool
anyway. She often combines her princess type dress up clothes in
creative
and ridiculous seeming ways that end up looking cool. She also changes
several times in a day, and takes (a lot) longer to make choices than I
do,
and often wears her leotards as clothes.]]]

LOL! My friend's daughter changes several times a day too and it cracks
me up! Fortunately for me Scotty has very few opinions about his
clothes so it hasn't been an issue. I think it might be in my future
though, because Eliza (who is 1 tomorrow) has already shown a lot of
interest in clothes. She gets into my bottom dresser drawer, which has
shirts in it, and puts them on!

[[Next time help her fold and pack what she wants to and will fit in -
without
comment or editorializing. Then quietly pack a few more weather
appropriate
additional items in your suitcase.]]

This is exactly what I do. I let Scotty make his own decision about
whether to wear a jacket, shoes, etc but then have the jacket or shoes
in my bag in case he changes his mind. I have no interest in "teaching
him a lesson" by letting him freeze.


[[[There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake in
the
outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have
strewed.
It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is rejected,
rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.]]]

Practicing this has been so important to me and it extends far beyond
parenting! It is helping my relationship with my husband a lot! I come
from a long line of control freaks so letting go has been so very hard
for me. What has been helping me lately is focusing on joy in my
interactions with the world. This list has been invaluable to me in
doing that.

Jenny

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Robyn



Thanks for the reply, I have a few thoughts and questions:



<<<Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as

good.

I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain

foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is

hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had

food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and

hysterical at me.>>>



You do not have to wait for her to ask you for food, or permission to eat.

What I do when Jayn is clearly very absorbed in play, and may be getting

hungry, is simply bring her a sandwich or some sliced fruit or yoghurt (or

some combination of food that she usually likes) and put it down near her.

She usually eats some or all of it.



I don't wait for her to ask for food, never have. I always am offering and
have lots of healthy choice snacks available to her all day. We have the
bottom shelf in the fridge with just food that is prepped and easy for her
to just grab and eat. Same with a shelf in the pantry. She had lots of food
near her all day, she had just chosen to eat not enough of it and it caught
up to her. She had not finished the breakfast she asked for, or the lunch
that she asked for, but she did drink all her slurpie, so she had more sugar
than other nutrients in her body and I believe this was part of the problem.
She had food on a plate beside her but was not eating it. So that is where
my confusion and frustration came in in that situation.



<<<I mean really horrible screaming and crying and hitting

and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to not respond

in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off.>>>



When Jayn does this, I tend to hold her gently at arms length - to save my

face - and I tell her fairly forcefully to take some deep breaths. Sometimes

works. We are still nursing, so that also helps - both with becoming calm

and getting some good food in.



I am not sure what I have to do about this, but I can't imagine hugging her
or nursing her when she is like that. I immediately get SO angry and
resentful of her screaming at me, that I have a hard time staying. My first
instinct is to just walk away and remove myself from that situation. Of
course she is screaming "come here come here" so I guess I will have to find
a way to do that for her.





<<<That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide"

and then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. >>>



It's really great that you are grasping this about yourself. It is hard to

look at yourself and admit imperfections.



I am rarely unwilling to look at my own imperfections. DH says it is
something he admires about me:-)



<<<<So I guess the

message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her to I will

leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for herself

but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if she

doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the message I

am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that isn't

good.>>>



It *is* good that you are seeing it, however.



Frankly this stuff about the clothes to pack is beyond trivial, especially

in comparison to the control issue behind it that you are seeing. If it

makes it easier for you to let go I'll tell you this: Jayn often wears her

winter clothes in summer (SoCal) - amazing me with her ability to stay cool

anyway. She often combines her princess type dress up clothes in creative

and ridiculous seeming ways that end up looking cool. She also changes

several times in a day, and takes (a lot) longer to make choices than I do,

and often wears her leotards as clothes.



I guess it is trivial. I was really surprised since she has been picking her
own clothes since she was 2 years old and has made some creative choices but
has never chosen hot winter clothes for summer wear before. And since she
runs hot most of the time I could just see us dealing with a screaming
unhappy kid in the heat this weekend.



Next time help her fold and pack what she wants to and will fit in - without

comment or editorializing. Then quietly pack a few more weather appropriate

additional items in your suitcase. Do this every time until the trust

between you is restored and she is ready to ask you for advice on what to

pack. Be prepared to be cheerful if it's rejected if she deems your ideas

less worthy than her own.



This is a good idea and I will work on it. Much easier than the fight.



There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake in the

outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have strewed.

It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is rejected,

rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.





Oh yes, I need to work on that BIG TIME!



<<<I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she

wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather

her do what she wants but without my help.>>>>



Unschooling is exactly helping children to do what they want, with as much

help as they ask for, of the kind they ask for, including simple

unconditional encouragement. If you don't want to help her, you will find it

harder to unschool as she ages.



<<<<Is the goal to be without

opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read. But

so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be

with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a

bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?>>>>



How can we help but have opinions? They are not the same as making

judgments. We can choose how to express them - and more importantly if we

should express them at all. Will the opinion you express increase your

little girl's confidence in herself and trust in you? If no, then I suggest

biting your tongue. Is it a life and limb threatening safety issue? That's a

more reasonable thing to express your *unasked for* opinion about.



OK. more work. having opinions I don't share good luck! LOL.

Thanks for your time and effort, I appreciate it,



Sherri-Lee





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Karen,


These are all good suggestions. I had thought I had done it. maybe I need
more reflection. She had had and egg and toast for breakfast, she had chosen
a healthy lunch, but chose not to eat much of it in favour of other things.
I had made lots of healthy options available to her, but perhaps I had also
made it too easy to get at the sugary things as well. OK. thanks for the
nudge I will be more aware.



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: Tuckervill@... [mailto:Tuckervill@...]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go




In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:41:06 AM Central Standard Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:

Ok. if there
wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't acknowledge
it?


~~~

There is an easy fix to it, now that she has the experience of knowing what

it's like to be so hungry she's hysterical.

At a calm and intimate moment when she seems receptive, maybe at bedtime(?)

speak with her about these "hungry uglies". Brainstorm with her about how
they can be prevented. Can she choose foods with less sugar? Can she ask
you
to make her a scrambled egg to go along with the sugary cereal? These
things
have to be done way before the pattern emerges that leads to the behavior.

If you think back over the last few days you shoudl be able to be notice a
pattern of time between something sugary or nothing since waking, to when
the
tantrum occurs. Help her notice it and learn about her body's response to
foods.

Offering food freedom doesn't mean we never offer our kids ideas on how to
eat healthy. We used to have hungry uglies after donuts for breakfast,
very
predictable. After I figured it out, it was easy to suggest that he have
an
egg or a slice of bacon with his donut. Since he liked eggs and bacon, and

understood the problem he was having (even at 3 or 4, he understood it in
simple terms) and he didn't like it, he'd usually eat a little. He'd eat
less
donut, too, because he was full faster.

A lot of preventing meltdowns is seeing them coming and distracting or
taking other steps. These hunger related meltdowns can be lessened in the
same
way, without controlling her food choices. Unschooled kids are not living
in a
vacuum of relationship. We interact with them to help them get what they
need and they learn from their choices.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129a5edkg/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090073106/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=195291031>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alyce

--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman
<sherri--lee@s...> wrote:


You're getting lots of good advice and I don't know that my
contribution is necessary here, but I did have something to add to
the food discussion. My son and I discovered quite some time ago
that he gets very aggressive if he eats foods with food coloring in
them - slurpie for example. He's very good about policing himself.
Here's how he does it - on days we're heading out to the park or
where he's looking at a good amount of time outside where he can run
and play, he'll treat himself beforehand to a slurpie or something.
If he can play it off, it works out. If it's a quieter time at
home, he'll avoid the food coloring because he knows he'll be
bouncing off the walls and be miserable. So yes, food coloring
doesn't agree with him. But he's aware and rather than completely
denying himself treats, he splurges a couple times a week when he
knows he'll be in an environment that allows for massive energy.
Some would tell me 'shame on you for letting him have that food
coloring that makes him wild'... but I think he handles it quite
well and don't think it's causing any long term negative effects.

If that's in any way applicable to your situation.

Alyce

Alyce

I guess my point here was that they *will* figure things out and
manage them if you just give them the chance.

Alyce

--- In [email protected], "Alyce" <alyce13j@y...>
wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman
> <sherri--lee@s...> wrote:
>
>
> You're getting lots of good advice and I don't know that my
> contribution is necessary here, but I did have something to add to
> the food discussion. My son and I discovered quite some time ago
> that he gets very aggressive if he eats foods with food coloring
in
> them - slurpie for example. He's very good about policing
himself.
> Here's how he does it - on days we're heading out to the park or
> where he's looking at a good amount of time outside where he can
run
> and play, he'll treat himself beforehand to a slurpie or
something.
> If he can play it off, it works out. If it's a quieter time at
> home, he'll avoid the food coloring because he knows he'll be
> bouncing off the walls and be miserable. So yes, food coloring
> doesn't agree with him. But he's aware and rather than completely
> denying himself treats, he splurges a couple times a week when he
> knows he'll be in an environment that allows for massive energy.
> Some would tell me 'shame on you for letting him have that food
> coloring that makes him wild'... but I think he handles it quite
> well and don't think it's causing any long term negative effects.
>
> If that's in any way applicable to your situation.
>
> Alyce

eriksmama2001

One of the unfortunate aspects of schooling is the lack of
opportunity and inability to set boundaries for oneself.
Consequently, we have limited practice knowing what is or isn't OK
for ourselves.

Compounded by children being expected to obey parents, (i.e. do
without thinking), we seldom have the chance to learn how to set
boundaries for ourselves. As a result, we try to control OTHERS to
limit their impact on us. This is modelled for us all through
childhood. Why doesn't it work when we get to be the adult/parent?!

I have learned that I can only set boundaries for myself. I can not
set boundaries for others. If someone wants to do something, even my
3 y/o, it is his life to experience. Unless it will PROBABLY send him
to the emergency room, I give him full and emphatic information if I
disagree. But am not angry when he chooses to do it his way, whatever
it is. He listens to my advice, usually, and we both learn something
when he doesn't. Many times my concerns were unfounded. I also have
learned not to overly dramatize the situation because I might end up
looking like I gave bad information. I want to remain a reliable
resource that he is comfortable seeking information from.

Obviously, I have opinions and share them, especially with my friends
and family.


pat




--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman <sherri-
-lee@s...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have been reading for awhile now and really appreciate all of
your efforts
> to help us learn about unschooling.
>
>
>
> So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting
go. Not a
> big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you
have any
> ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was
happening for
> us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did
my dd
> feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost
in my
> parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally
let go of
> like some of you ladies have.
>
>
>
> Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some
as good.
> I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat
certain
> foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and
she is
> hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only
has had
> food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is
screaming and
> hysterical at me. I mean really horrible screaming and crying and
hitting
> and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to
not respond
> in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off.
Yesterday it
> dawned on me it was hunger, so I suggested it, she screamed at me
even more.
> Later when she was calmer we talked about it and I asked her if she
thought
> she had been screaming at me because she was hungry, yes she
agreed. So
> today when it started again, I suggested it and she screamed even
more. I
> find this behaviour really hard to take and unacceptable. Ok. if
there
> wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed
to
> accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't
acknowledge
> it? That is hardly fair to anyone else in this family. As soon as
she eats
> she is in a different place. This has only started since I have
relaxed a
> bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to
the way
> it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there
was
> healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.
>
>
>
> That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you
decide" and
> then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. Like
tonight, we
> are getting ready to go away for the weekend, so for the last few
trips she
> has packed her own little strawberry shortcake suitcase and I have
just
> helped with suggests of appropriate clothing for number of days and
> temperature. So tonight a weekend in a place that will be 30 +
(Celsius) so
> summer clothes are in. So first she takes about 25 outfits out of
her
> closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out
her
> velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that
isn't
> quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and
tops? So she
> pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos. HUH???? I
am sorry
> I just lost it. these are not things she chooses to wear at home in
this
> weather and she knows where we are going. I didn't handle it well
and
> learned really fast that I was upset because I thought she was being
> unreasonable. So then I say ok. pack what you want go ahead and try
to
> leave... well she screams at me that she wants me to stay. So I
guess the
> message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her
to I will
> leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for
herself
> but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if
she
> doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the
message I
> am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that
isn't good.
> So how do I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took
the
> leotards and the top and the shorts, so when we get there she can
actually
> wear it.
>
>
>
> I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever
she
> wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would
rather
> her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
> opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have
read. But
> so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want
you to be
> with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think
that is a
> bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?
>
>
>
> I just feel so frustrated by all this. any thoughts or suggestions?
Oh and
> be gentle please:-)
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance, oh and we are away this weekend, so I might not
respond
> too quickly, but I appreciate all suggestions,
>
>
>
> Sherri-Lee
>
> Need safe and natural health products?
>
> http://www.aloeessence.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mamaaj2000

Yes, yes, yes! I learned to detach around significant others when a
guy I was friends with got really mad and started causing a scene in
public. People kept giving me dirty looks, but he wasn't my boyfriend
or even a close friend, so I _felt_ pretty detached! Then it occured
to me that I could still feel that way even if it was a boyfriend or
husband who was misbehaving.

Sherri-Lee, it's really hard. I decided I wanted to control less, but
then the next stage seemed to be manipulating, being a martyr (okay,
if you don't want to help me, I'll clean up by myself...), getting
upset at the choices, etc. It's taking longer to really let go. Two
steps forward, one back. And two steps back, then two more steps
back, lol.

With the sugar issue, hmmm, how can I put this? You see that
the "bad" food is leading to misbehavior, but is seeing this helping
you two, or is it making you tense, waiting for the acting out? What
if you just look directly at her and not think about what happened in
the past to lead to this behavior and what to do to prevent it in the
future and how to recover from it. Just look at her and see her as
the little girl you love and try to figure out what you can do to
help her in the moment. Of course this is much easier before she
starts screaming! So yeh, it may be hunger and low blood sugar, but
the bigger issue is your relationship. And on the way to her eating
what her body needs, she's going to have some mis-steps.

Mikey and I had a really bad day yesterday. MIL is here and I made an
appointment to get the kids pictures taken. It took forever to get
Caroline to smile so poor Mikey had to sit there being told smile,
look over here, stop baring your teeth, etc. Then we had to kill 1.5
hours in the mall...I had no energy, no patience and was feeling very
anxious over EVERYTHING (like what you mentioned--pg depression
coming out as anger, etc.). I was evil. Today he started the day
fighting me and I just said "I'm not arguing today" and refused to
let him get to me. After a few hours of goading me, he understood and
we had a perfectly wonderful time. Drove dh and MIL insane playing
the question game in the car (everything you say has to be a
question...if the other person answers, they lose) and laughing
hysterically.

Ugh, I gotta go pack. We're going away for the weekend. See y'll
Sunday night!!

--aj
--- In [email protected], "Jennifer Altenbach"
<salten@c...> wrote:
> [[[There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake
in
> the
> outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have
> strewed.
> It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is
rejected,
> rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.]]]
>
> Practicing this has been so important to me and it extends far
beyond
> parenting! It is helping my relationship with my husband a lot! I
come
> from a long line of control freaks so letting go has been so very
hard
> for me. What has been helping me lately is focusing on joy in my
> interactions with the world. This list has been invaluable to me in
> doing that.
>
> Jenny

Robyn Coburn

<<<< [[[There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake in
The outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have
strewed. It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is
rejected, rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.]]]

Practicing this has been so important to me and it extends far beyond
parenting! It is helping my relationship with my husband a lot! >>>>

I'm not sure whether my greatest challenge is doing this myself with dh, or
trying to get him to do it in reference to me. ;)

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004

Robyn Coburn

<<<I don't wait for her to ask for food, never have. I always am offering
and
have lots of healthy choice snacks available to her all day. We have the
bottom shelf in the fridge with just food that is prepped and easy for her
to just grab and eat. Same with a shelf in the pantry. She had lots of food
near her all day, she had just chosen to eat not enough of it and it caught
up to her. She had not finished the breakfast she asked for, or the lunch
that she asked for, but she did drink all her slurpie, so she had more sugar
than other nutrients in her body and I believe this was part of the problem.
She had food on a plate beside her but was not eating it. So that is where
my confusion and frustration came in in that situation.>>>

I'm going to guess that it is partly getting used to her new freedom, and
partly a self-experiment thing. Others have suggested waiting.

I guess letting her know that she seems to be getting grumpy will help her.


<<<I am not sure what I have to do about this, but I can't imagine hugging
her or nursing her when she is like that. I immediately get SO angry and
resentful of her screaming at me, that I have a hard time staying. My first
instinct is to just walk away and remove myself from that situation. Of
course she is screaming "come here come here" so I guess I will have to find
a way to do that for her.>>>

When she is out of control is when she most needs you to come nearer and be
loving and acceptant. Walking away is better than punishing her - if YOU
feel like you are going to lose it. However if you can see her as at her
MOST vunerable, and most needy, at these times and stay close, you will both
feel better. Again try "detachment" and mirroring her feelings to her.
"You are crying and thrashing, you must feel angry." Or "Are you mad
because....[best guess]" I'm not suggesting you insert "you're hungry" here,
but the actual physical event that set her off.

She may surprise you by coming back to "no, I'm feeling hungry" after a
while, or give you some insights into her feelings that may lead back to the
food coloring issue that someone mentioned. Sometimes children have
described reactions like "feeling itchy inside", or suddenly "scared" of the
intensity of their feelings, that have turned out to be pointers to food
allergies.(Message boards archives). In my case, once Jayn was able to tell
me that I "didn't really want to understand", and I realized that she was
right and it was a great lesson to me - both about myself and about her
powers of perception and understanding.

<<OK. More work>>>

You so often have really helpful things to say to others. It's great that
you're here.

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004

eriksmama2001

I similarly felt immediate anger when I was grabbed by my three year
old while my hands were busy in the kitchen, cutting chicken or
whatever. I felt trapped. When he screams (i.e. is EMPHATIC) for
something, I felt he was demanding NOW, or else. The "trapped"
and "or else" are my baggage from childhood. Seeing a counselor has
helped me to identify the origin of these strong reactions that I
intellectually realized were out of proportion to my young child's
behavior. In childhood I had a prevasive feeling of being controlled,
trapped and punished for non-compliance. And screaming used to
precede punishment in my childhood home. So I immediately felt
threatened. Does any of this sound familiar?

My feelings were left over from not dealing with these strong
childhood feelings that were unable to be expressed at that time.
They needed to be expressed so they kept coming to the surface
unexpectedly.

Our children do push our buttons, they don't know they are our
buttons until we let them know. Sometimes my reaction is such a
curiousity for my son that he keeps trying to discover the nuances of
my reaction. Sometimes, I still must restrain my anger by breathing
and focusing on the now and the moment, not my past. Over time my
reaction has settled to a more comfortable angst at being grabbed
unexpectly and then I try to consciously choose to hold him at that
time. It helps me to feel less "trapped" and helps to soothe my
internal flame. Also, I have found it helps me if I kneel down to his
level and whisper to him when he yells for things. He usually lowers
his voice. So that I feel more control over my own reactions.


Pat






--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> <<<I don't wait for her to ask for food, never have. I always am
offering
> and
> have lots of healthy choice snacks available to her all day. We
have the
> bottom shelf in the fridge with just food that is prepped and easy
for her
> to just grab and eat. Same with a shelf in the pantry. She had lots
of food
> near her all day, she had just chosen to eat not enough of it and
it caught
> up to her. She had not finished the breakfast she asked for, or the
lunch
> that she asked for, but she did drink all her slurpie, so she had
more sugar
> than other nutrients in her body and I believe this was part of the
problem.
> She had food on a plate beside her but was not eating it. So that
is where
> my confusion and frustration came in in that situation.>>>
>
> I'm going to guess that it is partly getting used to her new
freedom, and
> partly a self-experiment thing. Others have suggested waiting.
>
> I guess letting her know that she seems to be getting grumpy will
help her.
>
>
> <<<I am not sure what I have to do about this, but I can't imagine
hugging
> her or nursing her when she is like that. I immediately get SO
angry and
> resentful of her screaming at me, that I have a hard time staying.
My first
> instinct is to just walk away and remove myself from that
situation. Of
> course she is screaming "come here come here" so I guess I will
have to find
> a way to do that for her.>>>
>
> When she is out of control is when she most needs you to come
nearer and be
> loving and acceptant. Walking away is better than punishing her -
if YOU
> feel like you are going to lose it. However if you can see her as
at her
> MOST vunerable, and most needy, at these times and stay close, you
will both
> feel better. Again try "detachment" and mirroring her feelings to
her.
> "You are crying and thrashing, you must feel angry." Or "Are you mad
> because....[best guess]" I'm not suggesting you insert "you're
hungry" here,
> but the actual physical event that set her off.
>
> She may surprise you by coming back to "no, I'm feeling hungry"
after a
> while, or give you some insights into her feelings that may lead
back to the
> food coloring issue that someone mentioned. Sometimes children have
> described reactions like "feeling itchy inside", or
suddenly "scared" of the
> intensity of their feelings, that have turned out to be pointers to
food
> allergies.(Message boards archives). In my case, once Jayn was able
to tell
> me that I "didn't really want to understand", and I realized that
she was
> right and it was a great lesson to me - both about myself and about
her
> powers of perception and understanding.
>
> <<OK. More work>>>
>
> You so often have really helpful things to say to others. It's
great that
> you're here.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004

christy_imnotred

--- In [email protected], "eriksmama2001"
<scubamama@e...> wrote:
> I similarly felt immediate anger when I was grabbed by my three
year
> old while my hands were busy in the kitchen, cutting chicken or
> whatever. I felt trapped. When he screams (i.e. is EMPHATIC) for
> something, I felt he was demanding NOW, or else. The "trapped"
> and "or else" are my baggage from childhood.

A great book about this is called When Anger Hurts Your Kids by
Matthew McKay. It talks about identifying our triggers and working
out why they are our triggers and then many coping strategies so we
don't get so angry. It has helped me with controlling my anger at my
son. Because we are with our kids all day, they do tend to anger us
more than anyone else, but it is so important to learn to control
that response so we don't do damage to our kids. I actually wrote an
article about anger management for a now defunct online magazine.
I'll see if I can dig up a copy and post it somewhere.

Christy

pam sorooshian

On Jul 16, 2004, at 7:04 AM, Tuckervill@... wrote:

> Ok. if there
> wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
> accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't
> acknowledge
> it?
>

I don't like the feeling of people thinking I'm a perfect parent -
because I tend to write only about things that go well at our house. So
I thought about this thread last night, when I completely blew it and
behaved not at ALL like the mom I wish I always was. (How's that for a
convoluted sentence? <G>)

Anyway - Rosie had a long active day yesterday - up early to ride
horses and then hours at the county fair and then back to the stables
to wash ponies and then to a movie with a friend and then a long drive
with me to pick up her sister -- during that time she didn't eat much -
just cocoa and a rice crispy treat in the morning and some food at the
fair, I didn't know what she'd eaten there, but food is expensive
there, so not much.

We got home and Cyrus had barbequed and so we had a nice dinner waiting
for us. Rosie was cranky and irritable over little things. I knew (we
all knew) she needed to eat something and she'd be back to her
relatively cheerful self, but she was really being hard to get along
with. Finally, when we'd just sat down and Roxana asked her to pass
something, Rosie didn't like the way she asked and she sort of tossed
it at her across the table, in a hostile way. I lost my patience and
said, 'Rosie, just go in another room for a few minutes and come back
when you can be nicer." Which isn't a terrible thing to say but I said
it in a very exasperated tone of voice. She burst into tears and ran
off yelling, "Mommy you're mad at me for being cranky because I'm SO
hungry and now you sent me away from the food and if I don't eat I'm
just going to feel worse and how is that going to help me?"

The whole mess was really a result of not planning ahead well enough. I
could have given her more money, just in case she was away so long. I
could have thought ahead and brought a snack when I picked her up from
the movie since I knew we were going to have to be in the car for an
hour or so, picking up her sister. I could have stopped and bought food
for her after picking her up - and made Roxana wait a little longer. I
could have handed her a piece of cheese or something the minute we
walked in the door, instead of her waiting while we set the table and
all sat down to dinner together.

Not one of my best parenting episodes. But I'll be more conscious and
careful of the food thing. And so will she, I'm sure.

By the way, she came back, still grouchy, but quiet. She ate and felt
better and by the end of the meal we were having a perfectly good time.
Afterwards we were all watching Masterpiece Theater and she fell asleep
and is still sleeping right now - over 11 hours later. She was not just
hungry, she was worn out, too, apparently.

-pam




National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Syndi

I'm not going to be much help here, but I found this to be terribly
cute!
So first she takes about 25 outfits out of her
closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out
her
velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that
isn't
quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and tops?
So she
pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos.

I know it was frustrating for you, but looking in from the outside
it is funny. And remember, she's just a little girl.
syndi

Sherri-Lee Pressman

I am back from my weekend and have LOTS of good emails to read and respond
to, but wanted to add to this, that sadly, NOW in retrospect, I can't
imagine what I thought was so horrible that I couldn't have just "gone with
it" a little bit better than I did. That is what seems to happen lately, we
have a situation like this, I react and then later think it is an over
reaction and learn so much, I just wish I could learn without it costing so
much, you know?



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: Syndi [mailto:justlikemama@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 2:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help letting go



I'm not going to be much help here, but I found this to be terribly
cute!
So first she takes about 25 outfits out of her
closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out
her
velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that
isn't
quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and tops?
So she
pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos.

I know it was frustrating for you, but looking in from the outside
it is funny. And remember, she's just a little girl.
syndi






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jspj0u/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090272250/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=512802166>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Leslie,



I appreciate your feedback.



Food is an issue for me for a few reasons. 1) no choice as a child what to
eat (I actually remember being punished for choosing an apple as an after
school snack) AND health issues. I work in the health field and see the cost
of eating the wrong things far too often. I did make lots of offers of food,
she had food that she chose, prepared the way she liked it on a plate beside
her which she then ignored. Not sure what else I could have done. Something
new for me is being 6 months pregnant and being with her, I have to eat more
often and on the two days we had this issue, I had finished my food and was
already for my next snack and she hadn't finished her first food and then
would move onto my second choice, which in hindsight was not as healthy as I
should have made. BUT because she had not eaten enough of the healthier
choices, she reacted more strongly to the unhealthy choices in her body than
she might have regularly. Ok. so I learned something there.



The clothes, well. I stopped having a say in her clothes (mostly) when she
was about a year and a half. She wanted to choose. I struggled with some
choices but have really gotten to the place where what she wears is ok with
me. Even two different socks because she can't choose are fun in my eyes
now. She has an eclectic style that I enjoy. Unfortunately, that day I
hadn't thought of just packing some more appropriate things for her in my
case as well. (a DUH moment) but now have that thought tucked away for the
future.


Given that it was 36-38 all weekend long she spent most of her time in her
bathing suit in the pool and the sprinkler. And I was so proud of myself
that when I couldn't take the heat anymore and all the judgmental "adults"
of my family were sitting around talking and doing adult things. I put on my
suit and went out and held her hand and ran and squealed through the
sprinkler with her for 30 minutes. I will never forget the look in her face
when she was doing it with me. she LOVED that I did it with her and I
enjoyed it too. That night when we did our "what was your favourite part of
the day" question, we both said running through the sprinkler together.



A great memory:-)



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: Steven Cox [mailto:slclsc@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go



Hi,

There's alot to be said for the conventional wisdom of dressing for the
weather and eating nutritious foods. And young children need and want
parents advice about such things--unless they have been accustomed to having
power struggles with the parent over clothes and food or have never had to
make decisions for themselves.

There are virtually as many theories about food as their are people, it
seems to me :-) (vegetarian is best, or omnivorous is best, or paleolithic
is best, or low fat is best, or high fat is best or organic is best or low
carb is best and on and on). I have had a change in my health and have been
researching food theories, and find alot of conflicting info. Anyway, it
might be good to think that you and your child(ren) are exploring food,
finding what works best for them and you. If a child is losing it 'cause
she's over hungry, chances are she wasn't offered food soon enough. Or food
that she likes in a way that she likes it. Its ok to suggest eating and what
to eat--its how you do it that's so important. Sometimes it helps me to
think of my kids as guests in my house--because then I know how to talk to
them respectfully. Its sad, but true, for me it is easier to talk
respectfully to someone else's children, especially when I'm stressed. Also
its important to not get mad at her if s
The whole packing thing could have been so fun. Her choices were great. Lots
of people overpack and choose the wrong clothes. Shorts and t-shirts are
small. She could have found out what fit in the suitcase or bag that she
wanted to bring. Sometimes, parents are embarassed by their kids choices in
clothes or whatever. I love them! But I would get embarassed if I was with a
child with snarly hair or something. Whatever you think is good, like
matching clothes or combed hair, you can show your child using yourself as
an example. But be happy if they choose otherwise. Children are often
attracted to what makes us happy. I'm not saying this to manipulate children
into doing what we want; but if what we want is genuinely a good idea, the
enthusiasm we have for it is quite contagious.

The shift toward happiness and letting go can be really hard for a parent
who is used to giving dour directives. I'm not saying this is you (I'm
saying it is/was me--I keep working on it :-))

Leslie


----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:28 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go


Hi all,



I have been reading for awhile now and really appreciate all of your
efforts
to help us learn about unschooling.



So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting go. Not
a
big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you have any
ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was happening
for
us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did my dd
feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost in my
parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally let go of
like some of you ladies have.



Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as
good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me. I mean really horrible screaming and crying and hitting
and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to not
respond
in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off. Yesterday
it
dawned on me it was hunger, so I suggested it, she screamed at me even
more.
Later when she was calmer we talked about it and I asked her if she
thought
she had been screaming at me because she was hungry, yes she agreed. So
today when it started again, I suggested it and she screamed even more. I
find this behaviour really hard to take and unacceptable. Ok. if there
wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't acknowledge
it? That is hardly fair to anyone else in this family. As soon as she eats
she is in a different place. This has only started since I have relaxed a
bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to the way
it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there was
healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.



That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you decide"
and
then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. Like tonight,
we
are getting ready to go away for the weekend, so for the last few trips
she
has packed her own little strawberry shortcake suitcase and I have just
helped with suggests of appropriate clothing for number of days and
temperature. So tonight a weekend in a place that will be 30 + (Celsius)
so
summer clothes are in. So first she takes about 25 outfits out of her
closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out her
velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that isn't
quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and tops? So
she
pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos. HUH???? I am
sorry
I just lost it. these are not things she chooses to wear at home in this
weather and she knows where we are going. I didn't handle it well and
learned really fast that I was upset because I thought she was being
unreasonable. So then I say ok. pack what you want go ahead and try to
leave... well she screams at me that she wants me to stay. So I guess the
message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her to I
will
leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for
herself
but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if she
doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the message I
am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that isn't
good.
So how do I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took the
leotards and the top and the shorts, so when we get there she can actually
wear it.



I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read.
But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to
be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?



I just feel so frustrated by all this. any thoughts or suggestions? Oh and
be gentle please:-)



Thanks in advance, oh and we are away this weekend, so I might not respond
too quickly, but I appreciate all suggestions,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129654bdr/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090047514/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=529463395>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Kelly,



One thing I did wrong that day was this: I had set up food for her in the
fridge and cupboard recently. I would ask her if she was hungry and remind
her she could help herself, BUT I did leave it more up to her than I might
have in the past some of the time. Kind of got too relaxed I think.
Generally, we have very healthy choices around, crackers, cheese, fruit,
veggies, yogurt. all the things she likes.



The idea is perfect for our future trips. So would you pack these other
things of hers in your suitcase and have her know you were doing it? Or
would you do it without her knowledge? I can imagine her screaming at me to
stop packing her things that she had already done it if she knew.



I have to work on. just stating my opinion and letting if fall and be
accepted or rejected either way. I have to work on not getting personally
involved in the outcome and I have to work on detachment too. I am
personally invested in others accepting my opinion or ideas, again and left
over from childhood (hell and even adulthood with my family) where nothing I
said was believed and usually was greeted with "do you *think* so" with an
incredulous look on their faces. Well I will call my counselor this week, we
can hack through that now, all I have to do is start believing myself and
others will too OR I won't care if they or don't.



Thanks for pointing that out,



Sherri-lee



_____

From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go



In a message dated 7/16/2004 1:41:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:

Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some as good.
I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat certain
foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and she is
hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only has had
food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is screaming and
hysterical at me.<snip> This has only started since I have relaxed a
bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to the way
it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there was
healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.<<<

How about making sure there is healthful, nutritionally dense food always
available? Rather than "just leave it up to her", why don't you make sure
that
there's some fresh fruit cut up and some cheeses sliced and some chicken
with
ranch dip on a plate? Take a "monkey platter" (a plate full of nutritious
finger foods) to her while she's playing? If it's there, at her fingertips,
I
doubt she'd refuse. She'd probably gobble it up and ask for more!


>>>>>That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you
decide"
and
then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. <snip> So how
do
I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took the leotards and
the
top and the shorts, so when we get there she can actually wear it. <<<<

I'd give her a small bag for the trip to pack whatever she likes. Then I'd
pack the things I think she'd REALLY prefer in my own bag. That way,
*you're*
happy, *she's* happy, and she has all the clothes she might need/want.



>>>>>I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever
she
wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would rather
her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have read.
But
so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want you to be
with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think that is a
bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?<<<<

It's about helping AND about letting her work some things out for herself.
It's not either/or. It's both. It's about sharing your opinion, but being OK

with her rejection of it. If it's a trusting relationship, she will more
than
likely honor your thoughts/opinions/concerns even IF she decides to make
another choice.

If you *are * there to help out, you can make suggestions and help her find

her way. If you "disappear", she'll be left alone to struggle and drown. If
she knows you won't be there for her, she may quit looking for your
assistance
at all.

It's not about drawing lines. It's about sharing thoughts and ideas and
tossing them around to see what fits. Making small, but serious, decisions
*now*
will make it easier to make bigger, more serious decisions later. And she
*needs* your input and your wisdom. She might reject it <g>, but she'll
learn
from that learning-take and make a better decision next time.

Maybe if you could be more specific? Maybe I'm not understanding what you
mean.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bdhp2r/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090064644/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=435996034>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Jennifer,



I do tend to try to eat with her most of the time. Lately, though she has
taken longer and longer to eat everything. Tonight it was an hour and a half
to have a bedtime snack. I eat my food and then am done. she slows down and
eventually just stops eating and then is hungry and I am not always ready
for more to eat. I will keep more food out at the table though for her.
worry about the heat and things going bad though.



I always have "just in case" clothes with us when we go out. just didn't
extrapolate that to the trip. will next time though.



Detachment is something I definitely need to work on,



Thanks for the thoughts,



Sherri-Lee







_____

Another thing that works for me with my son is to make myself a big
plate of good food and then sit down near him to eat it. He is much
more likely to come over and ask for some than he is to eat if I suggest
it. He's 4 so he is not very receptive to my suggestions lately! At a
restaurant he will often say he doesn't want to eat anything so I'll
tell him that's fine, he doesn't have to but then I'll be sure to order
something extra that I know he likes and I'll say it's "in case the baby
wants some". Once it's on the table he always eats some.



[[[Frankly this stuff about the clothes to pack is beyond trivial,
especially
in comparison to the control issue behind it that you are seeing. If it
makes it easier for you to let go I'll tell you this: Jayn often wears
her
winter clothes in summer (SoCal) - amazing me with her ability to stay
cool
anyway. She often combines her princess type dress up clothes in
creative
and ridiculous seeming ways that end up looking cool. She also changes
several times in a day, and takes (a lot) longer to make choices than I
do,
and often wears her leotards as clothes.]]]

LOL! My friend's daughter changes several times a day too and it cracks
me up! Fortunately for me Scotty has very few opinions about his
clothes so it hasn't been an issue. I think it might be in my future
though, because Eliza (who is 1 tomorrow) has already shown a lot of
interest in clothes. She gets into my bottom dresser drawer, which has
shirts in it, and puts them on!

[[Next time help her fold and pack what she wants to and will fit in -
without
comment or editorializing. Then quietly pack a few more weather
appropriate
additional items in your suitcase.]]

This is exactly what I do. I let Scotty make his own decision about
whether to wear a jacket, shoes, etc but then have the jacket or shoes
in my bag in case he changes his mind. I have no interest in "teaching
him a lesson" by letting him freeze.


[[[There is an idea called "Detachment" - having no emotional stake in
the
outcome of such things as advice, or suggestions, or stuff you have
strewed.
It means that you can just not be worried if the advice etc is rejected,
rather than taking it as a personal rejection of *you*.]]]

Practicing this has been so important to me and it extends far beyond
parenting! It is helping my relationship with my husband a lot! I come
from a long line of control freaks so letting go has been so very hard
for me. What has been helping me lately is focusing on joy in my
interactions with the world. This list has been invaluable to me in
doing that.

Jenny









Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1292ge4vl/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090079311/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=568449651>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Alyce, this is a great thought. I will start to pay attention to see if
there is a trend that I am missing. thank you for suggesting this,



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: Alyce [mailto:alyce13j@...]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help letting go



--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman
<sherri--lee@s...> wrote:


You're getting lots of good advice and I don't know that my
contribution is necessary here, but I did have something to add to
the food discussion. My son and I discovered quite some time ago
that he gets very aggressive if he eats foods with food coloring in
them - slurpie for example. He's very good about policing himself.
Here's how he does it - on days we're heading out to the park or
where he's looking at a good amount of time outside where he can run
and play, he'll treat himself beforehand to a slurpie or something.
If he can play it off, it works out. If it's a quieter time at
home, he'll avoid the food coloring because he knows he'll be
bouncing off the walls and be miserable. So yes, food coloring
doesn't agree with him. But he's aware and rather than completely
denying himself treats, he splurges a couple times a week when he
knows he'll be in an environment that allows for massive energy.
Some would tell me 'shame on you for letting him have that food
coloring that makes him wild'... but I think he handles it quite
well and don't think it's causing any long term negative effects.

If that's in any way applicable to your situation.

Alyce






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bmecjt/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090082913/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=567927873>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Pat as always you are right, I get so much from your posts.



How do we start letting go of this need to have them do what we say??? How
do I??



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@...]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 5:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help letting go



One of the unfortunate aspects of schooling is the lack of
opportunity and inability to set boundaries for oneself.
Consequently, we have limited practice knowing what is or isn't OK
for ourselves.

Compounded by children being expected to obey parents, (i.e. do
without thinking), we seldom have the chance to learn how to set
boundaries for ourselves. As a result, we try to control OTHERS to
limit their impact on us. This is modelled for us all through
childhood. Why doesn't it work when we get to be the adult/parent?!

I have learned that I can only set boundaries for myself. I can not
set boundaries for others. If someone wants to do something, even my
3 y/o, it is his life to experience. Unless it will PROBABLY send him
to the emergency room, I give him full and emphatic information if I
disagree. But am not angry when he chooses to do it his way, whatever
it is. He listens to my advice, usually, and we both learn something
when he doesn't. Many times my concerns were unfounded. I also have
learned not to overly dramatize the situation because I might end up
looking like I gave bad information. I want to remain a reliable
resource that he is comfortable seeking information from.

Obviously, I have opinions and share them, especially with my friends
and family.


pat




--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman <sherri-
-lee@s...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have been reading for awhile now and really appreciate all of
your efforts
> to help us learn about unschooling.
>
>
>
> So now I have some questions, I seem to be struggling with letting
go. Not a
> big surprise I am sure that is the way it is for many, but do you
have any
> ideas how to make it easier? Part of what I realized that was
happening for
> us, was that I let go off too many things at once and not only did
my dd
> feel a bit like a boat adrift at sea, but I also felt really lost
in my
> parenting. So some things, I know I am just not ready to totally
let go of
> like some of you ladies have.
>
>
>
> Like food. I can't change it yet, I see some foods as bad and some
as good.
> I have tried to relax on her food issues and not push her to eat
certain
> foods first etc, but then days like today and yesterday happen and
she is
> hungry and doesn't eat, until the point she is so hungry and only
has had
> food lacking in nutritional quality in her tummy that she is
screaming and
> hysterical at me. I mean really horrible screaming and crying and
hitting
> and just pushing me. I can't take it and it is all I can take to
not respond
> in kind and I have to say I don't always manage to pull it off.
Yesterday it
> dawned on me it was hunger, so I suggested it, she screamed at me
even more.
> Later when she was calmer we talked about it and I asked her if she
thought
> she had been screaming at me because she was hungry, yes she
agreed. So
> today when it started again, I suggested it and she screamed even
more. I
> find this behaviour really hard to take and unacceptable. Ok. if
there
> wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed
to
> accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't
acknowledge
> it? That is hardly fair to anyone else in this family. As soon as
she eats
> she is in a different place. This has only started since I have
relaxed a
> bit about food and I have to say I am thinking about going back to
the way
> it was, which wasn't extremely rigid, but we sure made sure there
was
> healthy nutritionally dense food eaten before "junk" food.
>
>
>
> That is one issue, the other thing is that I find I say "ok you
decide" and
> then I discover I don't mean it as much as I thought I did. Like
tonight, we
> are getting ready to go away for the weekend, so for the last few
trips she
> has packed her own little strawberry shortcake suitcase and I have
just
> helped with suggests of appropriate clothing for number of days and
> temperature. So tonight a weekend in a place that will be 30 +
(Celsius) so
> summer clothes are in. So first she takes about 25 outfits out of
her
> closet. ok that is too many things for two days. Then she takes out
her
> velvet Christmas dress and her Halloween princess costume. ok that
isn't
> quite right either. How about some sun dresses, and shorts and
tops? So she
> pulls out a purple sleeveless top and purple winter leos. HUH???? I
am sorry
> I just lost it. these are not things she chooses to wear at home in
this
> weather and she knows where we are going. I didn't handle it well
and
> learned really fast that I was upset because I thought she was being
> unreasonable. So then I say ok. pack what you want go ahead and try
to
> leave... well she screams at me that she wants me to stay. So I
guess the
> message she is getting is that if she doesn't do what I expect her
to I will
> leave but I am going to act like she has autonomy and can chose for
herself
> but really she doesn't and has to guess what I want from her and if
she
> doesn't get it right I will leave? Sounds like that might be the
message I
> am sending and she is reacting with panic and screaming. Ok that
isn't good.
> So how do I figure out what to do about this? In the end she took
the
> leotards and the top and the shorts, so when we get there she can
actually
> wear it.
>
>
>
> I find it hard to be in a situation where she wants to do what ever
she
> wants AND wants me to help her do it. Does that make sense? I would
rather
> her do what she wants but without my help. Is the goal to be without
> opinions about what she does? No I don't think so from what I have
read. But
> so if you really disagree with what they want to do but they want
you to be
> with you and help you do it, how do you draw the lines? I think
that is a
> bit of the root of my frustration. So any thoughts on that?
>
>
>
> I just feel so frustrated by all this. any thoughts or suggestions?
Oh and
> be gentle please:-)
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance, oh and we are away this weekend, so I might not
respond
> too quickly, but I appreciate all suggestions,
>
>
>
> Sherri-Lee
>
> Need safe and natural health products?
>
> http://www.aloeessence.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129omm259/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090112093/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=864922437>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TreeGoddess

On Jul 19, 2004, at 1:25 AM, Sherri-Lee Pressman wrote:

> [ I do tend to try to eat with her most of the time. Lately, though
> she has
> taken longer and longer to eat everything. Tonight it was an hour and
> a half
> to have a bedtime snack. ]

Maybe she's just savoring her time together and lingering at the table
because Mama is sitting there just for her and not doing housework, or
on the phone, or whatever? Just throwing that out there....don't know
if that rings true for you. :)

> [ I eat my food and then am done. she slows down and
> eventually just stops eating and then is hungry and I am not always
> ready
> for more to eat. ]

I think it's a good thing that she slows down and then might decide to
want more after a while. It's a whole lot more healthy than the way I
was raised -- eat everything on your plate and do it as quickly as
possible because mom and dad don't want to sit here all night with you.
I still tend to eat too quickly and sometimes well after I realize
that I'm satisfied. Often to the point of being over full. That's not
a healthy thing for me to do and it's a hard habit to break.

> [ I will keep more food out at the table though for her.
> worry about the heat and things going bad though. ]

Yes, keep food available for her to eat whenever she feels like doing
so. As far as the food going bad....unless it's something with
mayonnaise I really wouldn't worry about it too much. My DD will bring
me her plate and let me know that she wants a new sandwich because that
one got crunchy. LOL Toss that one to the dog, make her a new one....
everybody's happy. ;)
-Tracy-

Sherri-Lee Pressman

HI Tracy,



I think there might be days when she is wanting more of my time, but mostly
there seems to be no pattern that I can see. If we are eating at the table,
she sits and finishes or takes the food with her when done. If she is
playing while eating then she nibbles as she goes.



I agree that it is a good thing she eats slowly. I forgot this, thank you
for reminding me. Often in the past my dh would comment on how slow she
eats, and I would say that it is better for the digestion that way. We spend
so much time telling people/kids to hurry up and then they have health
issues because of eating so fast and not chewing their food so it isn't
digested properly and then they have to relearn how to slow down. I will
remember this more and embrace it. I did get frustrated with the 1.5 hours
for crackers, cheese and chicken at bedtime last night.



I will work on keeping the food available, no dog here so my dh usually eats
what ever she leaves over:-)



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 4:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go



On Jul 19, 2004, at 1:25 AM, Sherri-Lee Pressman wrote:

> [ I do tend to try to eat with her most of the time. Lately, though
> she has
> taken longer and longer to eat everything. Tonight it was an hour and
> a half
> to have a bedtime snack. ]

Maybe she's just savoring her time together and lingering at the table
because Mama is sitting there just for her and not doing housework, or
on the phone, or whatever? Just throwing that out there....don't know
if that rings true for you. :)

> [ I eat my food and then am done. she slows down and
> eventually just stops eating and then is hungry and I am not always
> ready
> for more to eat. ]

I think it's a good thing that she slows down and then might decide to
want more after a while. It's a whole lot more healthy than the way I
was raised -- eat everything on your plate and do it as quickly as
possible because mom and dad don't want to sit here all night with you.
I still tend to eat too quickly and sometimes well after I realize
that I'm satisfied. Often to the point of being over full. That's not
a healthy thing for me to do and it's a hard habit to break.

> [ I will keep more food out at the table though for her.
> worry about the heat and things going bad though. ]

Yes, keep food available for her to eat whenever she feels like doing
so. As far as the food going bad....unless it's something with
mayonnaise I really wouldn't worry about it too much. My DD will bring
me her plate and let me know that she wants a new sandwich because that
one got crunchy. LOL Toss that one to the dog, make her a new one....
everybody's happy. ;)
-Tracy-






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129d0a2s4/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090323992/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=213977260>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Pam,



Sorry for my delay in replying, we are having a heat wave here and I am
beat, being 6 months pregnant.


I just wanted to thank you for this post. I really appreciate hearing how
one of the people on this list who I admire is actually just a flawed human
who screws up too. and I still admire you:-)



I have discovered in my parenting path that I have to really work hard to
care for myself OR I am a lousy mom with a short temper etc. And if I am
like that then how can I expect better. I can usually go back through a bad
episode and can usually see in retrospect that I was no dream to be with
either.



I guess that is just part of the whole "human" thing huh?



Anyway, thanks again I appreciate it,



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: pam sorooshian [mailto:pamsoroosh@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help letting go




On Jul 16, 2004, at 7:04 AM, Tuckervill@... wrote:

> Ok. if there
> wasn't an easy fix to it that would be different, but am I supposed to
> accept disrespectful behaviour because she is hungry and won't
> acknowledge
> it?
>

I don't like the feeling of people thinking I'm a perfect parent -
because I tend to write only about things that go well at our house. So
I thought about this thread last night, when I completely blew it and
behaved not at ALL like the mom I wish I always was. (How's that for a
convoluted sentence? <G>)

Anyway - Rosie had a long active day yesterday - up early to ride
horses and then hours at the county fair and then back to the stables
to wash ponies and then to a movie with a friend and then a long drive
with me to pick up her sister -- during that time she didn't eat much -
just cocoa and a rice crispy treat in the morning and some food at the
fair, I didn't know what she'd eaten there, but food is expensive
there, so not much.

We got home and Cyrus had barbequed and so we had a nice dinner waiting
for us. Rosie was cranky and irritable over little things. I knew (we
all knew) she needed to eat something and she'd be back to her
relatively cheerful self, but she was really being hard to get along
with. Finally, when we'd just sat down and Roxana asked her to pass
something, Rosie didn't like the way she asked and she sort of tossed
it at her across the table, in a hostile way. I lost my patience and
said, 'Rosie, just go in another room for a few minutes and come back
when you can be nicer." Which isn't a terrible thing to say but I said
it in a very exasperated tone of voice. She burst into tears and ran
off yelling, "Mommy you're mad at me for being cranky because I'm SO
hungry and now you sent me away from the food and if I don't eat I'm
just going to feel worse and how is that going to help me?"

The whole mess was really a result of not planning ahead well enough. I
could have given her more money, just in case she was away so long. I
could have thought ahead and brought a snack when I picked her up from
the movie since I knew we were going to have to be in the car for an
hour or so, picking up her sister. I could have stopped and bought food
for her after picking her up - and made Roxana wait a little longer. I
could have handed her a piece of cheese or something the minute we
walked in the door, instead of her waiting while we set the table and
all sat down to dinner together.

Not one of my best parenting episodes. But I'll be more conscious and
careful of the food thing. And so will she, I'm sure.

By the way, she came back, still grouchy, but quiet. She ate and felt
better and by the end of the meal we were having a perfectly good time.
Afterwards we were all watching Masterpiece Theater and she fell asleep
and is still sleeping right now - over 11 hours later. She was not just
hungry, she was worn out, too, apparently.

-pam




National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129945d5b/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1090254569/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=184011920>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]