Syndi

This is from a friend of mine:

school is like work....someone's always telling you what to do, how
to do it, and if you think you have a good idea....they'll smash it
down and tell you to get back to workyou work for the ...if parents
let their kids be creative at home ENOUGH.......the bad teachers in
the world can't smash that imagination..it's way too strong if
parents allow their kids to use it!

I'm at a complete loss how to respond to her em! Her children are in
ps of course, so she is defending it. help??!!
thanks
syndi
please be gentle!

Robyn Coburn

<<<school is like work....someone's always telling you what to do, how
to do it, and if you think you have a good idea....they'll smash it
down and tell you to get back to workyou work for the ...>>>

Must be why so many Unschoolers are either entrepreneurs or have found the
work they love. School is not like any job I ever did.

<<<<if parents
let their kids be creative at home ENOUGH.......the bad teachers in
the world can't smash that imagination..it's way too strong if
parents allow their kids to use it!>>>

I hope she is letting her kids use theirs, and that it is enough. I really
do. But it sure is taking a risk. Some kids do thrive "enough" in school. I
hope she is not putting unrealistic expectations on her kids, and that they
don't currently have bad teachers.

<<<I'm at a complete loss how to respond to her em! Her children are in
ps of course, so she is defending it.>>>

Here's my take:

What might you be doing/saying that is causing her to feel the need to
defend public school and her choice to have her kids in it? I mean aside
from just being alive and happy in Unschooling.

Maybe the conversation started with her grumbling about school, and you said
that she had a choice. School bashing is easy. Letting go of the security
that is part of doing what the greater part of society sanctions is not
easy. Defending what she may in heart see as a "necessary evil" means that
she and her family are not ready. Maybe they will become so one day and be
ready to drop the "necessary".

I personally do not get involved in school conversations. People who know I
homeschool sometimes want to start defending school to me. I just don't do
those conversations. It is not up to me to make people feel better about the
choice to stay in the system. I will gladly talk about *what* we do which
seems to fascinate people, but I have found that talking about *why* we do
it sometimes raises defenses, unless the person is actually considering it.
I try to just let it wash over me with a general response like, "we're
really happy".

I don't do curriculum or "how do I *get* her to...." or reading list
conversations either with my local group.

This is just me. Other people will have better things to suggest. But one
thing I urge you to contemplate is why you feel you have to respond to her,
or change her mind, at all. That may give you an idea for what to say to
her. Many people have found that the proof is in the pudding so to speak,
when your friends see what charming, interesting and well-informed
adolescents your have in the home. Others simply recommend some reading.
John Taylor Gatto might rock her world.

Robyn L. Coburn

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In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:33:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
justlikemama@... writes:

school is like work....someone's always telling you what to do, how
to do it, and if you think you have a good idea....they'll smash it
down and tell you to get back to workyou work for the <<<<

That's why it's important to avoid school at ALL costs!

It's easy to learn to accept this as truth and as the way it must be. To
never really enjoy the work you've chosen. To be told what to do and how to do
it. To work for assholes and be grateful for that privilege.

The work you choose *should* be doing what you love. School has taught
millions of people exactly what you friend believes (she's been brainwashed! <g>):
that you must be miserable in school so that you can learn to be miserable
in your job.

With unschooling you learn to go with your passions and feed them and make
them your life's work. To be happy and to find joy in learning and being and
doing! If a child gets NOTHING else out of unschooling, this should be it!


>>>>...if parents let their kids be creative at home ENOUGH.......the bad
teachers in the world can't smash that imagination..it's way too strong if
parents allow their kids to use it!<<<<

Yeah, and it's sad that your friend's imagination has been smashed so much
that she can't even see past this ridiculous thinking!----Well, she's right:
there ARE kids who make it through school with their imaginations still in
tact. But there are many *more* who don't. Given a choice between school and a
wonderful home, filled with imagination and joy and unschooling <g>, I'd pick
the unschooling life---NO chance of imagination-smashing! <g>

You can't change her thinking until *she* is ready to change her thinking!
Just live your unschooling life as joyfully as you can. As your children get
older and more interesting and hers are dulled by school, she may change her
tune. Proof is in the pudding!

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 7/16/04 12:30 AM, Syndi at justlikemama@... wrote:

> school is like work....someone's always telling you what to do, how
> to do it, and if you think you have a good idea....they'll smash it
> down and tell you to get back to workyou work for the ...

I don't want to prepare my daughter for work like that. If she *chooses*
work like that, she'll have reasons why putting up with that atmosphere
makes sense for her. (For instance, maybe she's learning a lot. Maybe the
boss will be leaving soon. Maybe the work is challenging and interesting.)

Kids are *forced into* an atmosphere like that in school to get something
they don't want. And they don't get to freely choose that atmosphere nor
what they get out of putting up with the atmosphere.

So basically they're being trained to accept that life offers nothing better
than "someone's always telling you what to do, how to do it, and if you
think you have a good idea....they'll smash it down" and that's just not
true nor something I want my daughter to believe.

> if parents
> let their kids be creative at home ENOUGH.......the bad teachers in
> the world can't smash that imagination..it's way too strong if
> parents allow their kids to use it!

It's a decent theory but what data does she have to back it up?

Unschoolers have real unschoolers to back up what they say about interest
being the foundation of living and learning :-)

I think the outcome of her scenario is highly dependent on children's
personalities. Some kids will take what other adults say to heart and no
amount of mom saying "No, that's not true" is going to change their minds.
They'll feel mom's just speaking from her heart and the teacher is seeing
what's true.

Despite freedom to watch what I wanted and read what I wanted, it took me
many years to recover from a dislike of history. I saw so many wonderful
movies and read intriguing books, but history itself turned me off because
it was tainted by school history texts.

It really wasnt until I was in my late 30's that I could recognize a lot of
the false school messages in my head and see that they were wrong. And my
creativity was never squashed at home.

Unschooling doesn't depend on any particular personality of the child to
work. It works for all children, independent of their personality and
learning style and interests.

Joyce

Syndi

What might you be doing/saying that is causing her to feel the need to
> defend public school and her choice to have her kids in it? I mean
aside
> from just being alive and happy in Unschooling.

What started this conversation with my friend was the fact that I
sent a poem that someone on this list had posted. I really liked it,
so sent it to a few people. I think from now on I won't be doing
that anymore.
Anyway, I didn't really respond to her remarks, I just let it go.
But it got me to thinking, what if it were all asked to me in person,
what would I say??? So that was the reason for asking for
suggestions.
thanks!
syndi

Syndi

Thanks to all who answered, you've given me soemthing to go by should
I be asked in person!
syndi