problem
Katharine Wise
In the light of the discussion of sharing problems on unschooling lists, here's one I'd like input on:
Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from the grandparents -- a wooden castle and set of figures (knights, horses, wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose frustration threshold is extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a gross understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to help because he was so furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting AAA to show up to tow the van any moment).
This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I don't know what, but dh sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was shredding newsprint, kicking and screaming at dh while 4yo was hovering anxiously over castle. Now, an hour later, we've put the castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most of the figures (which he still has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle (since it was his gift) later when 7yo won't be here -- not to punish 7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I also said that I want the castle to be something that brings joy and happiness and fun to our family and that we need to figure out how we can play with it so that that happens before we bring it back out. I also spent a long time sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of reflective listening.
At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away unless an adult (or possibly only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is a priority. But I'd love any other or additional suggestions.
Oh, and yes, we know we need additional help with 7yo's anger. So far we've seen two therapists, had phone consults with 2 others, talked with the ped and with a child psychologist who's done some preliminary screening. We live 2-3 hours from any major city or even suburbs, so finding people we like who can actually see and work with our child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from the grandparents -- a wooden castle and set of figures (knights, horses, wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose frustration threshold is extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a gross understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to help because he was so furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting AAA to show up to tow the van any moment).
This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I don't know what, but dh sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was shredding newsprint, kicking and screaming at dh while 4yo was hovering anxiously over castle. Now, an hour later, we've put the castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most of the figures (which he still has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle (since it was his gift) later when 7yo won't be here -- not to punish 7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I also said that I want the castle to be something that brings joy and happiness and fun to our family and that we need to figure out how we can play with it so that that happens before we bring it back out. I also spent a long time sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of reflective listening.
At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away unless an adult (or possibly only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is a priority. But I'd love any other or additional suggestions.
Oh, and yes, we know we need additional help with 7yo's anger. So far we've seen two therapists, had phone consults with 2 others, talked with the ped and with a child psychologist who's done some preliminary screening. We live 2-3 hours from any major city or even suburbs, so finding people we like who can actually see and work with our child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Katherine, That is tough. Did you validate and empathize with you 7 yo feelings ?I am sure moms that can write better than I will have lots of great things to share with you.
Have you read Sibling Rivalry? It is a must.
If I was going to talk to a Counselor I would suggest Naomi Aldort. We just had a tread about great Counselors on the AU list . I personally have had anger problems and have work really hard on it. I have been very successful with Naomi's help and I highly recommend it. She does phone counseling. The other two that came up are Jan Hunt ( which has also helped me and I LOVE her) and Scott Noelle ( who I love his writing but have not personally talked to)
Here is the link;
http://naomialdort.com/
Alex
aaaaa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have you read Sibling Rivalry? It is a must.
If I was going to talk to a Counselor I would suggest Naomi Aldort. We just had a tread about great Counselors on the AU list . I personally have had anger problems and have work really hard on it. I have been very successful with Naomi's help and I highly recommend it. She does phone counseling. The other two that came up are Jan Hunt ( which has also helped me and I LOVE her) and Scott Noelle ( who I love his writing but have not personally talked to)
Here is the link;
http://naomialdort.com/
Alex
aaaaa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elysia
Katherine,
I don't have much time to write, so I'm going to make this quick, and
if I think of anything else, I'll post later. Have you considered
food allergies? I have had a similar experience with anger outbursts
(they were major...) from my now 11year old son when he was around
5. I took him to the ped and tried everything I could think of, then
realized one day that I'd been increasing dairy in his diet w/out
realizing it--and I knew he was sensitive when he was younger, but
the symptoms of too much dairy had changed, and before this I didn't
realize that allergies could affect behavior. Anyway, after getting
all dairy out of his system (this took about 2 months) I noticed a
huge improvement. Then periodically I would "test" to see if it
still affected him by giving him a little bit and seeing what would
happen. We were able to figure out how much was "too much".
Eventually, he's been able to eat dairy again. I had him allergy
tested when he was 9 or 10 and found out that it didn't show up as an
allergy anymore, but I personally think he still has a slight
sensitivity and as he gets older is more able to manage it. Also,
the whole process was a real education about food choices for him at
a young age, as well as me!
Just something to think about... And remember that you know your
child better than anyone else.
Elysia
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose frustration threshold is
extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a gross
understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to help
because he was so furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting
AAA to show up to tow the van any moment).
shredding newsprint, kicking and screaming at dh while 4yo was
hovering anxiously over castle. Now, an hour later, we've put the
castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most of the figures
(which he still has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle
(since it was his gift) later when 7yo won't be here -- not to punish
7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I also said that I want the castle to be
something that brings joy and happiness and fun to our family and
that we need to figure out how we can play with it so that that
happens before we bring it back out. I also spent a long time
sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of
reflective listening.
because safety is a priority. But I'd love any other or additional
suggestions.
talked with the ped and with a child psychologist who's done some
preliminary screening. We live 2-3 hours from any major city or even
suburbs, so finding people we like who can actually see and work with
our child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge.
______________
I don't have much time to write, so I'm going to make this quick, and
if I think of anything else, I'll post later. Have you considered
food allergies? I have had a similar experience with anger outbursts
(they were major...) from my now 11year old son when he was around
5. I took him to the ped and tried everything I could think of, then
realized one day that I'd been increasing dairy in his diet w/out
realizing it--and I knew he was sensitive when he was younger, but
the symptoms of too much dairy had changed, and before this I didn't
realize that allergies could affect behavior. Anyway, after getting
all dairy out of his system (this took about 2 months) I noticed a
huge improvement. Then periodically I would "test" to see if it
still affected him by giving him a little bit and seeing what would
happen. We were able to figure out how much was "too much".
Eventually, he's been able to eat dairy again. I had him allergy
tested when he was 9 or 10 and found out that it didn't show up as an
allergy anymore, but I personally think he still has a slight
sensitivity and as he gets older is more able to manage it. Also,
the whole process was a real education about food choices for him at
a young age, as well as me!
Just something to think about... And remember that you know your
child better than anyone else.
Elysia
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>lists, here's one I'd like input on:
> In the light of the discussion of sharing problems on unschooling
>grandparents -- a wooden castle and set of figures (knights, horses,
> Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from the
wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose frustration threshold is
extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a gross
understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to help
because he was so furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting
AAA to show up to tow the van any moment).
>know what, but dh sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was
> This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I don't
shredding newsprint, kicking and screaming at dh while 4yo was
hovering anxiously over castle. Now, an hour later, we've put the
castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most of the figures
(which he still has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle
(since it was his gift) later when 7yo won't be here -- not to punish
7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I also said that I want the castle to be
something that brings joy and happiness and fun to our family and
that we need to figure out how we can play with it so that that
happens before we bring it back out. I also spent a long time
sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of
reflective listening.
>an adult (or possibly only a mommy) is available to supervise,
> At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away unless
because safety is a priority. But I'd love any other or additional
suggestions.
>far we've seen two therapists, had phone consults with 2 others,
> Oh, and yes, we know we need additional help with 7yo's anger. So
talked with the ped and with a child psychologist who's done some
preliminary screening. We live 2-3 hours from any major city or even
suburbs, so finding people we like who can actually see and work with
our child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge.
>______________________________________________________________________
> Katharine
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
Katharine Wise
Thanks for your response, Alex.
Yes, I did validate and empathize -- even the parts about wanting to throw his brother down the stairs (although actually he didn't use that line today).
I read Faber/Mazlish's books when I was in college and someone loaned a copy of one to my mom:-) Actually, I lead a book group on Siblings without Rivalry a couple years ago -- at which point, although I did not claim any expertise, I did have two children who got along amazingly well. Still do, but the younger pair are a different scene.
Naomi and Jan are the two therapists I've done phone consults with -- months with Naomi and a couple sessions with Jan. Both have wonderful input to offer, but they can't work with my child (who won't even talk to grandparents he knows well on the phone). I've come to recognize he needs someone in addition to me to help him learn to manage frustration better and to help me recognize what his personal limitations and challenges are. I can be part of the process, but I can't be the only one.
I've never heard of Scott Noelle; I'll have to look him up. Even if he can't meet my child, I've definitely learned from all the different people I've read and talked with, so I'm sure I'll gain something.
Thanks for the input,
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 11:16:08 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
Katherine, That is tough. Did you validate and empathize with you 7 yo feelings ?I am sure moms that can write better than I will have lots of great things to share with you.
Have you read Sibling Rivalry? It is a must.
If I was going to talk to a Counselor I would suggest Naomi Aldort. We just had a tread about great Counselors on the AU list . I personally have had anger problems and have work really hard on it. I have been very successful with Naomi's help and I highly recommend it. She does phone counseling. The other two that came up are Jan Hunt ( which has also helped me and I LOVE her) and Scott Noelle ( who I love his writing but have not personally talked to)
Here is the link;
http://naomialdort. com/
Alex
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, I did validate and empathize -- even the parts about wanting to throw his brother down the stairs (although actually he didn't use that line today).
I read Faber/Mazlish's books when I was in college and someone loaned a copy of one to my mom:-) Actually, I lead a book group on Siblings without Rivalry a couple years ago -- at which point, although I did not claim any expertise, I did have two children who got along amazingly well. Still do, but the younger pair are a different scene.
Naomi and Jan are the two therapists I've done phone consults with -- months with Naomi and a couple sessions with Jan. Both have wonderful input to offer, but they can't work with my child (who won't even talk to grandparents he knows well on the phone). I've come to recognize he needs someone in addition to me to help him learn to manage frustration better and to help me recognize what his personal limitations and challenges are. I can be part of the process, but I can't be the only one.
I've never heard of Scott Noelle; I'll have to look him up. Even if he can't meet my child, I've definitely learned from all the different people I've read and talked with, so I'm sure I'll gain something.
Thanks for the input,
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 11:16:08 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
Katherine, That is tough. Did you validate and empathize with you 7 yo feelings ?I am sure moms that can write better than I will have lots of great things to share with you.
Have you read Sibling Rivalry? It is a must.
If I was going to talk to a Counselor I would suggest Naomi Aldort. We just had a tread about great Counselors on the AU list . I personally have had anger problems and have work really hard on it. I have been very successful with Naomi's help and I highly recommend it. She does phone counseling. The other two that came up are Jan Hunt ( which has also helped me and I LOVE her) and Scott Noelle ( who I love his writing but have not personally talked to)
Here is the link;
http://naomialdort. com/
Alex
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
time". The first would be to talk with the grands and ask them not
to send anything at all to the kids without clearing it with the
parents first, or to send it to dad's workplace. That gives you a
wider range of options in terms of communicating with the kids
before-hand and looking for solutions proactively. That's something
you can generalize to other situations, too, not just gifts: giving
everyone in the family some advance notice of changes and talking
about the potential "fallout" from those changes.
The other thought I have is more general - what do each of the kids
have to say? Not just about this particular instance, but are the 4
and 10 yr olds interested in trying to help things go more smoothly
with their bro? I don't know your family situation, but my stepson
came to live with us from a household that was *much* more top-down
than our family, so I tend to approach these sorts of issues from
the perspective of "enlightened self-interest". Rather than
saying "how can we help your little sister?" I start from "lets see
if we can brainstorm some ideas so she's not driving you nuts".
I find involving Ray in the problem solving helps alot - his ideas
are sometimes better than mine, and he appreciates that he's being
treated as a partner in the process. *That* makes him willing
to "put up" with a bit more from a boistrous 5yr old when we can't
find any solutions in the moment. He at least feels like we're all
on the same team.
Kids are different, and sometimes one kid in a family needs more
attention and energy than the others. Working towards an environment
where "everyone's needs are valued" can create a more peaceful
family than focussing on trying to be "fair" or "balanced". That can
be a hard idea to get used to - most parenting advice tends toward
giving kids "equal time" or energy.
You might also check out Danielle's site:
http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/index.html
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>> Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from theI don't really have ideas "in the moment" but thoughts about "next
>grandparents -- a wooden castle and set of figures (knights,
>horses, wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose frustration
>threshold is extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a
>gross understatement.
time". The first would be to talk with the grands and ask them not
to send anything at all to the kids without clearing it with the
parents first, or to send it to dad's workplace. That gives you a
wider range of options in terms of communicating with the kids
before-hand and looking for solutions proactively. That's something
you can generalize to other situations, too, not just gifts: giving
everyone in the family some advance notice of changes and talking
about the potential "fallout" from those changes.
The other thought I have is more general - what do each of the kids
have to say? Not just about this particular instance, but are the 4
and 10 yr olds interested in trying to help things go more smoothly
with their bro? I don't know your family situation, but my stepson
came to live with us from a household that was *much* more top-down
than our family, so I tend to approach these sorts of issues from
the perspective of "enlightened self-interest". Rather than
saying "how can we help your little sister?" I start from "lets see
if we can brainstorm some ideas so she's not driving you nuts".
I find involving Ray in the problem solving helps alot - his ideas
are sometimes better than mine, and he appreciates that he's being
treated as a partner in the process. *That* makes him willing
to "put up" with a bit more from a boistrous 5yr old when we can't
find any solutions in the moment. He at least feels like we're all
on the same team.
Kids are different, and sometimes one kid in a family needs more
attention and energy than the others. Working towards an environment
where "everyone's needs are valued" can create a more peaceful
family than focussing on trying to be "fair" or "balanced". That can
be a hard idea to get used to - most parenting advice tends toward
giving kids "equal time" or energy.
You might also check out Danielle's site:
http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/index.html
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Katharine Wise
Hi Elysia,
Yes, I have considered food allergies/sensitivities. We eliminated dairy beginning in December. Things seem better, but not better enough -- and it's hard to tell if it's the diet or other changes we've made. In any case it's not the drastic change I've heard others talk about. I've been stocking up on gluten-free items, and need to figure out a gluten-free menu, and we'll try that elimination too after Valentine's I think. If those don't do it, we'll probably try Feingold. I'd like to get him allergy tested, but at the moment that would involve serious coercion. (The last time he had vaccinations required 5 nurses -- never again.)
I have become convinced that there's an organic basis of some sort to his anger and aggression. I spent months questionning everything I'd ever done as a parent, until I finally recognized that even friends with the sweetest children I know are not 100% consistent, compassionate, etc, and they all do things differently from one another.
Sorry this has gotten off-topic. I really just meant to pose a conflict from our home life and see how other unschoolers would approach it. The good news is, so far it seems they'd do a lot of the same things I've done:-)
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Elysia <luvelysia@...>
Katherine,
I don't have much time to write, so I'm going to make this quick, and
if I think of anything else, I'll post later. Have you considered
food allergies?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, I have considered food allergies/sensitivities. We eliminated dairy beginning in December. Things seem better, but not better enough -- and it's hard to tell if it's the diet or other changes we've made. In any case it's not the drastic change I've heard others talk about. I've been stocking up on gluten-free items, and need to figure out a gluten-free menu, and we'll try that elimination too after Valentine's I think. If those don't do it, we'll probably try Feingold. I'd like to get him allergy tested, but at the moment that would involve serious coercion. (The last time he had vaccinations required 5 nurses -- never again.)
I have become convinced that there's an organic basis of some sort to his anger and aggression. I spent months questionning everything I'd ever done as a parent, until I finally recognized that even friends with the sweetest children I know are not 100% consistent, compassionate, etc, and they all do things differently from one another.
Sorry this has gotten off-topic. I really just meant to pose a conflict from our home life and see how other unschoolers would approach it. The good news is, so far it seems they'd do a lot of the same things I've done:-)
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Elysia <luvelysia@...>
Katherine,
I don't have much time to write, so I'm going to make this quick, and
if I think of anything else, I'll post later. Have you considered
food allergies?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
I think Danielle has written a lot about her very intense and wonderful Sam at the AU list.
I will try to get you the links tomorow as the kids need me now!
Alex
I will try to get you the links tomorow as the kids need me now!
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Katharine Wise
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
Thanks for your response, Alex.
Yes, I did validate and empathize -- even the parts about wanting to throw his brother down the stairs (although actually he didn't use that line today).
I read Faber/Mazlish's books when I was in college and someone loaned a copy of one to my mom:-) Actually, I lead a book group on Siblings without Rivalry a couple years ago -- at which point, although I did not claim any expertise, I did have two children who got along amazingly well. Still do, but the younger pair are a different scene.
Naomi and Jan are the two therapists I've done phone consults with -- months with Naomi and a couple sessions with Jan. Both have wonderful input to offer, but they can't work with my child (who won't even talk to grandparents he knows well on the phone). I've come to recognize he needs someone in addition to me to help him learn to manage frustration better and to help me recognize what his personal limitations and challenges are. I can be part of the process, but I can't be the only one.
I've never heard of Scott Noelle; I'll have to look him up. Even if he can't meet my child, I've definitely learned from all the different people I've read and talked with, so I'm sure I'll gain something.
Thanks for the input,
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 11:16:08 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
Katherine, That is tough. Did you validate and empathize with you 7 yo feelings ?I am sure moms that can write better than I will have lots of great things to share with you.
Have you read Sibling Rivalry? It is a must.
If I was going to talk to a Counselor I would suggest Naomi Aldort. We just had a tread about great Counselors on the AU list . I personally have had anger problems and have work really hard on it. I have been very successful with Naomi's help and I highly recommend it. She does phone counseling. The other two that came up are Jan Hunt ( which has also helped me and I LOVE her) and Scott Noelle ( who I love his writing but have not personally talked to)
Here is the link;
http://naomialdort. com/
Alex
__________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky wrote:
And Ren, too, can speak to the issue as well as I can, as her Jalen's an
intense guy as well.
Here's a link to my page:
http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/spirited which is a
collection of posts I've written over the years
and http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/highneed which is an
article I wrote a couple years ago.
We, too, tried an elimination diet and had some success, but no dramatic
differences--enough, though, to keep corn syrup and dyes out of our diet
on a regular basis.
I'll try to find the OP and see if I have anything to add to the responses.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>Yes. And I'll be talking about this at my Live and Learn talk this year.
> I think Danielle has written a lot about her very intense and
> wonderful Sam at the AU list.
> I will try to get you the links tomorow as the kids need me now!
>
And Ren, too, can speak to the issue as well as I can, as her Jalen's an
intense guy as well.
Here's a link to my page:
http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/spirited which is a
collection of posts I've written over the years
and http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/highneed which is an
article I wrote a couple years ago.
We, too, tried an elimination diet and had some success, but no dramatic
differences--enough, though, to keep corn syrup and dyes out of our diet
on a regular basis.
I'll try to find the OP and see if I have anything to add to the responses.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
Danielle Conger
Katharine Wise wrote:
process his anger, and I know how it feels to want to help with that
intense emotion but also be caught up in the intense protective emotion
of your own for your other children. It's a really heart-wrenching place
to be.
It sounds like your husband is really available and willing to help
out--that's wonderful! I know we do so much better when dh is really
around and available to spend time with Sam, and having that extra adult
is invaluable! (Although sometimes Jim adds his own layer of issues. *g*)
Would you be willing to offer more details? Because at face value,
shredding newspaper doesn't sound like a bad thing to me; in fact, it's
a strategy we tried for a while to see if it helped release some of
Sam's anger. I know of other parents who've successfully found a
"breaking place" where the child could go and smash things like old
china from garage sales or bang things with hammers.
Those kinds of things have never really worked for Sam--he's just not
interested in redirecting his anger energy in that way. What we've found
to be most successful is finding a safe place where he can simply vent
in his own in-the-moment way. I've had to learn over the years how to be
present and calm for him while he's venting, allowing his anger to flow
around me without taking it personally or trying to stop it. I've found
that when I directly engage his energy with my own, that the situation
escalates and spirals out of control.
Visualization has worked really well as a tool for me. I try to sit,
close my eyes and imagine myself as a mountain of calm. Sam gets to a
space where verbalization--trying to talk to him, to rationalize with
him, to even validate him--is impossible. But, if I simply work at being
present without talking, without expecting resolution, just being a
calm, loving, available presence for him, he will move through his rage
and get to a place where he can begin to process it. And with several
years of doing this, and him trusting that I will be there and trusting
that I am his partner in his process, I can honestly see a *huge*
difference from where we were three years ago. Part of that, certainly,
is age, but there's a huge part of it that is Sam's trust in the process
and trust that he *can* handle the incredibly intense emotions raging
through his body, that *I* can handle those incredibly intense emotions.
There are absolutely times when this gets *exhausting*, and it's really,
really important that I keep up my own personal reserves and energy to
be available to him.
This, too, is only one side of the process--the part that has to do with
how to handle situations once they've gotten to this stage. There's a
whole 'nother, larger part of the process that has to do with
*preventing* the escalation and *cultivating* calming and coping
strategies for dealing with and dissipating intense emotion as it's
mounting. I also highly recommend what I call an "autonomy inventory,"
which is an observational list of all the ways your guy is empowered/
disempowered during his day. Not just the things he hears from you, but
the things the world hands him on his plate--too big, too small, too
weak, etc. What can't he reach, what can't he do, all the times reality
doesn't match the vision in his head, the weather, the time, etc., all
the things out of his control. That will both help you see the world
from his perspective and demonstrate the places where you can make
empowering changes for him.
I may have a different perspective on this process than what you're
comfortable with, however, and certainly, I can't know to what extent
you're dealing with anger from this one post.
I, personally, am very opposed to outside intervention and therapists.
*deep sigh* I think they send the message that a child's emotions are
not only too big for him to deal with, but also too big for mom and
dad--that the child *himself* is too much for mom and dad. Sometimes the
intense emotions *are* too big for mom and dad, absolutely, but I don't
believe that added layer of labeling and intervention helps the child.
What I've done, instead, is to read as much as I can, to spend as much
time with my child, observing my child, and empowering myself as the
expert. I've adapted lots of tools from books to our lives, and we've
found them really helpful, but I've been able to do this without Sam
feeling as if he's a "problem." And, I think that's really crucial.
At any rate, this is long, and I don't even know if it's been helpful or
not. I'd be happy to talk about
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>I hear that you're desperately wanting to help your guy find a way to
> This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I don't
> know what, but dh sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was
> shredding newsprint, kicking and screaming at dh while 4yo was
> hovering anxiously over castle. *snip* I also spent a long time
> sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of
> reflective listening.
>
process his anger, and I know how it feels to want to help with that
intense emotion but also be caught up in the intense protective emotion
of your own for your other children. It's a really heart-wrenching place
to be.
It sounds like your husband is really available and willing to help
out--that's wonderful! I know we do so much better when dh is really
around and available to spend time with Sam, and having that extra adult
is invaluable! (Although sometimes Jim adds his own layer of issues. *g*)
Would you be willing to offer more details? Because at face value,
shredding newspaper doesn't sound like a bad thing to me; in fact, it's
a strategy we tried for a while to see if it helped release some of
Sam's anger. I know of other parents who've successfully found a
"breaking place" where the child could go and smash things like old
china from garage sales or bang things with hammers.
Those kinds of things have never really worked for Sam--he's just not
interested in redirecting his anger energy in that way. What we've found
to be most successful is finding a safe place where he can simply vent
in his own in-the-moment way. I've had to learn over the years how to be
present and calm for him while he's venting, allowing his anger to flow
around me without taking it personally or trying to stop it. I've found
that when I directly engage his energy with my own, that the situation
escalates and spirals out of control.
Visualization has worked really well as a tool for me. I try to sit,
close my eyes and imagine myself as a mountain of calm. Sam gets to a
space where verbalization--trying to talk to him, to rationalize with
him, to even validate him--is impossible. But, if I simply work at being
present without talking, without expecting resolution, just being a
calm, loving, available presence for him, he will move through his rage
and get to a place where he can begin to process it. And with several
years of doing this, and him trusting that I will be there and trusting
that I am his partner in his process, I can honestly see a *huge*
difference from where we were three years ago. Part of that, certainly,
is age, but there's a huge part of it that is Sam's trust in the process
and trust that he *can* handle the incredibly intense emotions raging
through his body, that *I* can handle those incredibly intense emotions.
There are absolutely times when this gets *exhausting*, and it's really,
really important that I keep up my own personal reserves and energy to
be available to him.
This, too, is only one side of the process--the part that has to do with
how to handle situations once they've gotten to this stage. There's a
whole 'nother, larger part of the process that has to do with
*preventing* the escalation and *cultivating* calming and coping
strategies for dealing with and dissipating intense emotion as it's
mounting. I also highly recommend what I call an "autonomy inventory,"
which is an observational list of all the ways your guy is empowered/
disempowered during his day. Not just the things he hears from you, but
the things the world hands him on his plate--too big, too small, too
weak, etc. What can't he reach, what can't he do, all the times reality
doesn't match the vision in his head, the weather, the time, etc., all
the things out of his control. That will both help you see the world
from his perspective and demonstrate the places where you can make
empowering changes for him.
I may have a different perspective on this process than what you're
comfortable with, however, and certainly, I can't know to what extent
you're dealing with anger from this one post.
I, personally, am very opposed to outside intervention and therapists.
*deep sigh* I think they send the message that a child's emotions are
not only too big for him to deal with, but also too big for mom and
dad--that the child *himself* is too much for mom and dad. Sometimes the
intense emotions *are* too big for mom and dad, absolutely, but I don't
believe that added layer of labeling and intervention helps the child.
What I've done, instead, is to read as much as I can, to spend as much
time with my child, observing my child, and empowering myself as the
expert. I've adapted lots of tools from books to our lives, and we've
found them really helpful, but I've been able to do this without Sam
feeling as if he's a "problem." And, I think that's really crucial.
At any rate, this is long, and I don't even know if it's been helpful or
not. I'd be happy to talk about
--
~~Danielle
Emily (9), Julia (8), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
Melissa
Can I ask a question (okay, a couple of questions)? What do you mean that the four year
old can play with it later 'when the seven year old isn't there'? Is he gone regularly? What I
am reading is that the needs of the seven year old supercedes the needs of the rest of the
family, is that right? His jealousy is such that the 7yo wants to play with it without the 4yo
being involved? The 4yo doesn't want to share? The 4yo was anxious because he was
scared of the 7yo, or because he knew he was losing a new toy? The seven yo received lots
of attention and soothing, did the 4yo receive any as well? I'm just not reading the entire
situation.
I ask not because I'm trying to be snotty, but because it sounds familiar. We have a lot of
issues in our house as well, and it is hard to balance the needs of everyone. Our nine year
old has frequent outbursts and we've had to work very hard to maintain normalcy for the
rest of the children. I've also quite a bit of experience helping other families with extreme
behaviors, due to my position in the autism society. It sounds like you are doing a really
great job trying to find help for your whole family, and especially your seven year old son.
A lot of it does get better as they get older and get a lot of personal experience under
their belts.
It's hard to find a good psychologist who will work with you on your terms, ours has been
a lifesaver. I wish you luck on that one.
melissa
old can play with it later 'when the seven year old isn't there'? Is he gone regularly? What I
am reading is that the needs of the seven year old supercedes the needs of the rest of the
family, is that right? His jealousy is such that the 7yo wants to play with it without the 4yo
being involved? The 4yo doesn't want to share? The 4yo was anxious because he was
scared of the 7yo, or because he knew he was losing a new toy? The seven yo received lots
of attention and soothing, did the 4yo receive any as well? I'm just not reading the entire
situation.
I ask not because I'm trying to be snotty, but because it sounds familiar. We have a lot of
issues in our house as well, and it is hard to balance the needs of everyone. Our nine year
old has frequent outbursts and we've had to work very hard to maintain normalcy for the
rest of the children. I've also quite a bit of experience helping other families with extreme
behaviors, due to my position in the autism society. It sounds like you are doing a really
great job trying to find help for your whole family, and especially your seven year old son.
A lot of it does get better as they get older and get a lot of personal experience under
their belts.
It's hard to find a good psychologist who will work with you on your terms, ours has been
a lifesaver. I wish you luck on that one.
melissa
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
>
> In the light of the discussion of sharing problems on unschooling lists, here's one I'd
like input on:
>
> Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from the grandparents -- a wooden
castle and set of figures (knights, horses, wizard, dragon). To say that my 7yo, whose
frustration threshold is extremely low, is beside himself with jealousy is a gross
understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to help because he was so
furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting AAA to show up to tow the van any
moment).
>
> This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I don't know what, but dh
sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was shredding newsprint, kicking and
screaming at dh while 4yo was hovering anxiously over castle. Now, an hour later, we've
put the castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most of the figures (which he still
has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle (since it was his gift) later when 7yo
won't be here -- not to punish 7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I also said that I want the castle
to be something that brings joy and happiness and fun to our family and that we need to
figure out how we can play with it so that that happens before we bring it back out. I also
spent a long time sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kisses and lots of reflective
listening.
>
> At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away unless an adult (or possibly
only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is a priority. But I'd love any other
or additional suggestions.
>
> Oh, and yes, we know we need additional help with 7yo's anger. So far we've seen two
therapists, had phone consults with 2 others, talked with the ped and with a child
psychologist who's done some preliminary screening. We live 2-3 hours from any major
city or even suburbs, so finding people we like who can actually see and work with our
child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge.
>
> Katharine
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
Melissa
I don't think it's off topic at all. Food allergies have made a big difference in our household. In
addition, finding replacements has been very important to us in terms of RU, because we
want our kids with allergies to have as many choices as our children without. We tried to have
an allergen free home, but that wasn't fair to our other kids. It's a crazy balance! We did a
total wheat-free and casein-free diet with our daughter, but in the long run, it was corn. Not
just corn syrup, but corn meal, corn starch, dextrose, any sweetner with a corn base. Lovely.
But there are two different children in Breanna, one with corn and one without. They are
complete and total opposites, and for the most part, once she was used to living without corn
syrup, she is happy not to have it. We have learned a LOT , we make our own candy, suckers,
marshmallows and often our own soda because artificial sweeteners give me the heebies.
Melissa
addition, finding replacements has been very important to us in terms of RU, because we
want our kids with allergies to have as many choices as our children without. We tried to have
an allergen free home, but that wasn't fair to our other kids. It's a crazy balance! We did a
total wheat-free and casein-free diet with our daughter, but in the long run, it was corn. Not
just corn syrup, but corn meal, corn starch, dextrose, any sweetner with a corn base. Lovely.
But there are two different children in Breanna, one with corn and one without. They are
complete and total opposites, and for the most part, once she was used to living without corn
syrup, she is happy not to have it. We have learned a LOT , we make our own candy, suckers,
marshmallows and often our own soda because artificial sweeteners give me the heebies.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Elysia,
>
> Yes, I have considered food allergies/sensitivities. We eliminated dairy beginning in
December. Things seem better,
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Thanks Danielle for the links.
I wanted to point out that I also only suggest outside help for the parent and not the child.
I have never gotten counseling so I could change my children but for me to change how I was dealing with them ( the old records playing without me being able to stop them...).
When my brother was little all the schools believed he had some issues so mom ended up taking him to a child psychologist ( or some one like that) for a while. This was a bright, smart, loving and energetic child that hated school . If it was today they sure would have put him on medication. He grew up thinking he had a problem and that was a burden his whole life. Nowadays my mom realizes what a mistake that was and if it was today she would have unschooled all of us. When I was growing up in Brazil homeschooling was not on the map.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wanted to point out that I also only suggest outside help for the parent and not the child.
I have never gotten counseling so I could change my children but for me to change how I was dealing with them ( the old records playing without me being able to stop them...).
When my brother was little all the schools believed he had some issues so mom ended up taking him to a child psychologist ( or some one like that) for a while. This was a bright, smart, loving and energetic child that hated school . If it was today they sure would have put him on medication. He grew up thinking he had a problem and that was a burden his whole life. Nowadays my mom realizes what a mistake that was and if it was today she would have unschooled all of us. When I was growing up in Brazil homeschooling was not on the map.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christy Mahoney
Danielle's post was really great, and I have come to the same
conclusions with my daughter. Darcy is 12 now, but those years
between 5 and 8 were really really tough. We had some incidents
similar to the one you described, Katharine, and there were a few
memorable ones with cousins that were exacerbated by being in
someone else's house with other people's input etc.
I'm sure that there are some 7 year olds that are open to discussing
their anger and how to prevent it or ways to control impulses, such
as counting or breathing. And I suppose there are also some that
are willing to talk to a doctor about these things. But knowing my
daughter, I knew that a doctor would be distinctly unhelpful and, as
Danielle suggested, send her wrong messages about herself. When she
was 7, she was just not able to talk about her rages. She just
could not access those feelings when they weren't there, and when
they were, she was so full of them that she could hardly talk at
all. In those situations where she grabbed something, there was
just no time for her to think about what she was doing - it just
happened so fast. Some people think that if you just "teach" a
child that grabbing is wrong, it will never happen again.
What helped the most was a lot like what Danielle does with Sam -
going to another room and just listening. And after the storm
passed, validating and talking about ways to get what she wanted.
Katharine, have you talked to your son about what he wants? Does he
really want a toy like his brother has? Does he get some sort of
allowance that he could possibly save up for something he wants? Do
you ever just buy him a cool toy that he likes? I mean, do you
think that it is really the toy itself that he wants?
It can be so hard to balance things when there is one explosive
child. It isn't "fair" to the other child/children. We certainly
have some issues in our family where everyone feels like they have
to walk on eggshells around Darcy. It's really hard.
It might be helpful to explore the issue of food sensitivity, and
that's usually the first thing people will suggest, especially on
unschooling lists. It might be helpful to talk to a therapist. It
might also be helpful to accept where your son is right now and let
him know that you are there to help him and listen to what he wants
and try to find ways to get what he wants (without hurting his
brother).
-Christy M.
conclusions with my daughter. Darcy is 12 now, but those years
between 5 and 8 were really really tough. We had some incidents
similar to the one you described, Katharine, and there were a few
memorable ones with cousins that were exacerbated by being in
someone else's house with other people's input etc.
I'm sure that there are some 7 year olds that are open to discussing
their anger and how to prevent it or ways to control impulses, such
as counting or breathing. And I suppose there are also some that
are willing to talk to a doctor about these things. But knowing my
daughter, I knew that a doctor would be distinctly unhelpful and, as
Danielle suggested, send her wrong messages about herself. When she
was 7, she was just not able to talk about her rages. She just
could not access those feelings when they weren't there, and when
they were, she was so full of them that she could hardly talk at
all. In those situations where she grabbed something, there was
just no time for her to think about what she was doing - it just
happened so fast. Some people think that if you just "teach" a
child that grabbing is wrong, it will never happen again.
What helped the most was a lot like what Danielle does with Sam -
going to another room and just listening. And after the storm
passed, validating and talking about ways to get what she wanted.
Katharine, have you talked to your son about what he wants? Does he
really want a toy like his brother has? Does he get some sort of
allowance that he could possibly save up for something he wants? Do
you ever just buy him a cool toy that he likes? I mean, do you
think that it is really the toy itself that he wants?
It can be so hard to balance things when there is one explosive
child. It isn't "fair" to the other child/children. We certainly
have some issues in our family where everyone feels like they have
to walk on eggshells around Darcy. It's really hard.
It might be helpful to explore the issue of food sensitivity, and
that's usually the first thing people will suggest, especially on
unschooling lists. It might be helpful to talk to a therapist. It
might also be helpful to accept where your son is right now and let
him know that you are there to help him and listen to what he wants
and try to find ways to get what he wants (without hurting his
brother).
-Christy M.
kristenhendricks55
Just wondering, when 7yo recieves a present for his borthday... how
do things workout with 4yo? Do you take away the 7yo's toy until the
4yo isnt around?
Also, have you thought of maving closer to a city so that your son
could get the help he needs on a regular basis?
--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
_______________
do things workout with 4yo? Do you take away the 7yo's toy until the
4yo isnt around?
Also, have you thought of maving closer to a city so that your son
could get the help he needs on a regular basis?
--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>mean that the four year
> Can I ask a question (okay, a couple of questions)? What do you
> old can play with it later 'when the seven year old isn't there'?Is he gone regularly? What I
> am reading is that the needs of the seven year old supercedes theneeds of the rest of the
> family, is that right? His jealousy is such that the 7yo wants toplay with it without the 4yo
> being involved? The 4yo doesn't want to share? The 4yo was anxiousbecause he was
> scared of the 7yo, or because he knew he was losing a new toy? Theseven yo received lots
> of attention and soothing, did the 4yo receive any as well? I'mjust not reading the entire
> situation.familiar. We have a lot of
>
> I ask not because I'm trying to be snotty, but because it sounds
> issues in our house as well, and it is hard to balance the needsof everyone. Our nine year
> old has frequent outbursts and we've had to work very hard tomaintain normalcy for the
> rest of the children. I've also quite a bit of experience helpingother families with extreme
> behaviors, due to my position in the autism society. It soundslike you are doing a really
> great job trying to find help for your whole family, andespecially your seven year old son.
> A lot of it does get better as they get older and get a lot ofpersonal experience under
> their belts.your terms, ours has been
>
> It's hard to find a good psychologist who will work with you on
> a lifesaver. I wish you luck on that one.<katharinewise@> wrote:
>
> melissa
> --- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
> >unschooling lists, here's one I'd
> > In the light of the discussion of sharing problems on
> like input on:grandparents -- a wooden
> >
> > Yesterday my 4yo received a belated birthday gift from the
> castle and set of figures (knights, horses, wizard, dragon). Tosay that my 7yo, whose
> frustration threshold is extremely low, is beside himself withjealousy is a gross
> understatement. Yesterday I had to call dh home from work to helpbecause he was so
> furious (and it was lunchtime and I was expecting AAA to show upto tow the van any
> moment).don't know what, but dh
> >
> > This morning while I was in the shower something happened, I
> sent 10yo to get me and when I went down 7yo was shreddingnewsprint, kicking and
> screaming at dh while 4yo was hovering anxiously over castle.Now, an hour later, we've
> put the castle in hiding although not before 7yo grabbed most ofthe figures (which he still
> has). So far I've said that 4yo can have the castle (since it washis gift) later when 7yo
> won't be here -- not to punish 7yo but to keep 4yo safe. I alsosaid that I want the castle
> to be something that brings joy and happiness and fun to ourfamily and that we need to
> figure out how we can play with it so that that happens before webring it back out. I also
> spent a long time sitting with 7yo, comforting and offering kissesand lots of reflective
> listening.unless an adult (or possibly
> >
> > At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away
> only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is apriority. But I'd love any other
> or additional suggestions.So far we've seen two
> >
> > Oh, and yes, we know we need additional help with 7yo's anger.
> therapists, had phone consults with 2 others, talked with the pedand with a child
> psychologist who's done some preliminary screening. We live 2-3hours from any major
> city or even suburbs, so finding people we like who can actuallysee and work with our
> child and who go beyond behavioral reward systems is a challenge._____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Katharine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
_______________
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >
>
Deb Lewis
***At the moment I'm thinking the castle simply has to be away unless an
adult (or
possibly only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is a
priority.
But I'd love any other or additional suggestions.***
You've probably already considered this but since it's the first thing that
came to mind I'll put it out there.
I think it's less the castle and more that he's not the four year old. If
he's seven and your little one is four then he was three when his life
changed forever because of a new sibling. Is it possible he's angry
because his position as your baby was usurped?
If he got cool stuff for his fourth birthday could you show him those
pictures? Maybe pictures that don't include his baby sibling would be
better.
Maybe talk about when he turned four, what happened that day, how much fun
he had.
Can you spend time with him alone, going places and doing things he loves?
Can you find some time to be with only him during the day, every day, and
in that time talk about when he was born or when he was little and all the
cute things he did and how much you loved being with him? It might help
him to know that his young life included being four years old and getting
cool birthday presents.
Can you get him a castle too? Or, if that's not possible, could you pull
the castle out at nights when the four year old is asleep, so there's no
competition, and just hang out with him and play with the castle and let him
be your baby? I don't mean baby him, in the icky way some people think of
"babying", I mean cuddle him and whisper sweet things to him and be focused
on him the way a mom focuses on a new baby. Talk about special times with
him when he was little. Tell him stories about his little self, funny
things he did or the way he said certain words.
If he's angry because his position in the family was usurped by a baby he
needs to feel all the love he thinks he missed out on when that new baby
came. It's not that you didn't love him as much as before. It's not that
you didn't show him that love, it's how *he felt* when a new baby came and
he wasn't the little one in your arms any more.
It might be that he's feeling like his younger sibling gets all the
attention, all the love, all the cool toys. Not saying that's what's
happening! But from his point of view it might feel like that. If he gets
told he can't do something because of the little one, or if he gets in
trouble when the little one bugs him to the point he lashes out, or if he
has to do more things for himself because he's a big boy and you're helping
the littler one, then that's a lot of sadness and resentment for one little
body.
Deb Lewis
adult (or
possibly only a mommy) is available to supervise, because safety is a
priority.
But I'd love any other or additional suggestions.***
You've probably already considered this but since it's the first thing that
came to mind I'll put it out there.
I think it's less the castle and more that he's not the four year old. If
he's seven and your little one is four then he was three when his life
changed forever because of a new sibling. Is it possible he's angry
because his position as your baby was usurped?
If he got cool stuff for his fourth birthday could you show him those
pictures? Maybe pictures that don't include his baby sibling would be
better.
Maybe talk about when he turned four, what happened that day, how much fun
he had.
Can you spend time with him alone, going places and doing things he loves?
Can you find some time to be with only him during the day, every day, and
in that time talk about when he was born or when he was little and all the
cute things he did and how much you loved being with him? It might help
him to know that his young life included being four years old and getting
cool birthday presents.
Can you get him a castle too? Or, if that's not possible, could you pull
the castle out at nights when the four year old is asleep, so there's no
competition, and just hang out with him and play with the castle and let him
be your baby? I don't mean baby him, in the icky way some people think of
"babying", I mean cuddle him and whisper sweet things to him and be focused
on him the way a mom focuses on a new baby. Talk about special times with
him when he was little. Tell him stories about his little self, funny
things he did or the way he said certain words.
If he's angry because his position in the family was usurped by a baby he
needs to feel all the love he thinks he missed out on when that new baby
came. It's not that you didn't love him as much as before. It's not that
you didn't show him that love, it's how *he felt* when a new baby came and
he wasn't the little one in your arms any more.
It might be that he's feeling like his younger sibling gets all the
attention, all the love, all the cool toys. Not saying that's what's
happening! But from his point of view it might feel like that. If he gets
told he can't do something because of the little one, or if he gets in
trouble when the little one bugs him to the point he lashes out, or if he
has to do more things for himself because he's a big boy and you're helping
the littler one, then that's a lot of sadness and resentment for one little
body.
Deb Lewis
Katharine Wise
Deb Lewis wrote: I think it's less the castle and more that he's not the four year old. If he's seven and your little one is four then he was three when his life
changed forever because of a new sibling. Is it possible he's angry
because his position as your baby was usurped?
Me: Yup. I think that's part of it. There's no question that almost all of his anger is directed toward his younger brother, although he does have a low frustration level in general.
Deb: If he got cool stuff for his fourth birthday could you show him those
pictures?
Me: Hadn't thought of that. Might help, though I'm pretty sure that in his mind the castle/knights are the coolest thing that any of them have ever gotten.
Deb: Can you spend time with him alone, going places and doing things he loves? Can you find some time to be with only him during the day, every day, and
in that time talk about when he was born or when he was little and all the
cute things he did and how much you loved being with him?
Me: We've been trying to do more of this. Doesn't sound very "unschooly" but we started having an afternoon "Quiet Time" a couple months ago, where each of the boys goes to a separate room with whatever toys he chooses and I cycle through and spend 20-30 minutes with each of them alone. (Can't safely leave the younger two together unsupervised, so has to be each to his own space.) The boys all love the time alone with me and the older two love the time by themselves as well; the younger one sometimes needs to come and play in the same room when I'm with the oldest. We've also been trying to have occasional "dates" with child and either dh or myself -- but the boys (including 7yo) also want to play D&D when dh is home so it's a bit of a balancing act.
Deb: Can you get him a castle too? Or, if that's not possible, could you pull
the castle out at nights when the four year old is asleep, so there's no
competition, and just hang out with him and play with the castle
Me: I did ask if he'd like to use some of his money (he has plenty and no plans for saving it for something in particular) to buy some of his own knights or suggested we could build another castle, but he wasn't interested. It's more about the first one's "belonging" to the little one (although all the toys are shared and in common space). Actually, a friend just loaned us a Playmobile-like castle and pirate set thinking that might help diffuse the initial intensity over the birthday castle. We'll see.
Looking at pictures and talking about when he was four is a good idea. I do think he still feels displaced, and I think having the younger now be at an age where he wants to play with the others has made it even more difficult. He's not only displaced, but he has a rival for toys and for the oldest brother's attention as well.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Katharine
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changed forever because of a new sibling. Is it possible he's angry
because his position as your baby was usurped?
Me: Yup. I think that's part of it. There's no question that almost all of his anger is directed toward his younger brother, although he does have a low frustration level in general.
Deb: If he got cool stuff for his fourth birthday could you show him those
pictures?
Me: Hadn't thought of that. Might help, though I'm pretty sure that in his mind the castle/knights are the coolest thing that any of them have ever gotten.
Deb: Can you spend time with him alone, going places and doing things he loves? Can you find some time to be with only him during the day, every day, and
in that time talk about when he was born or when he was little and all the
cute things he did and how much you loved being with him?
Me: We've been trying to do more of this. Doesn't sound very "unschooly" but we started having an afternoon "Quiet Time" a couple months ago, where each of the boys goes to a separate room with whatever toys he chooses and I cycle through and spend 20-30 minutes with each of them alone. (Can't safely leave the younger two together unsupervised, so has to be each to his own space.) The boys all love the time alone with me and the older two love the time by themselves as well; the younger one sometimes needs to come and play in the same room when I'm with the oldest. We've also been trying to have occasional "dates" with child and either dh or myself -- but the boys (including 7yo) also want to play D&D when dh is home so it's a bit of a balancing act.
Deb: Can you get him a castle too? Or, if that's not possible, could you pull
the castle out at nights when the four year old is asleep, so there's no
competition, and just hang out with him and play with the castle
Me: I did ask if he'd like to use some of his money (he has plenty and no plans for saving it for something in particular) to buy some of his own knights or suggested we could build another castle, but he wasn't interested. It's more about the first one's "belonging" to the little one (although all the toys are shared and in common space). Actually, a friend just loaned us a Playmobile-like castle and pirate set thinking that might help diffuse the initial intensity over the birthday castle. We'll see.
Looking at pictures and talking about when he was four is a good idea. I do think he still feels displaced, and I think having the younger now be at an age where he wants to play with the others has made it even more difficult. He's not only displaced, but he has a rival for toys and for the oldest brother's attention as well.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Katharine
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
I don't recall what the 7yo got for his birthday! The reason for putting the castle away was because the fights get physical. Actually, from a physical standpoint, they're more attacks than fights -- very one-sided. This was the second biggie in the 24 hours since the castle had been opened. What I told them was that we needed to put the castle away until we could figure out how we could play with it without anyone's getting hurt. But I knew that during "Quiet Time" (which I explained in response to another post) the 4yo could play with his gift safely. He was getting bitten (or would have if dh hadn't pulled 7yo off) *and* losing his present (for a little while -- but I knew it seemed forever in his mind).
I wasn't really happy with my putting the castle up but I didn't see a whole lot of in-the-moment alternatives -- which is why I posted. Often, if I'm right there and see it coming (but sometimes I don't), I can get between them, reassure everyone that we can find a solution that will work for everyone, and 7yo won't spiral out of control. But the castle was definitely precipitating some serious spiraling.
Re moving closer to a city... in many ways we'd love to, and it's possible that something will come up for dh, but he's not in a field where telecommuting is a possibility nor one where he can easily choose where he wants to live and then look for a job locally.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: kristenhendricks55 <kristenhendricks55@...>
Just wondering, when 7yo recieves a present for his borthday... how
do things workout with 4yo? Do you take away the 7yo's toy until the
4yo isnt around?
Also, have you thought of maving closer to a city so that your son
could get the help he needs on a regular basis?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wasn't really happy with my putting the castle up but I didn't see a whole lot of in-the-moment alternatives -- which is why I posted. Often, if I'm right there and see it coming (but sometimes I don't), I can get between them, reassure everyone that we can find a solution that will work for everyone, and 7yo won't spiral out of control. But the castle was definitely precipitating some serious spiraling.
Re moving closer to a city... in many ways we'd love to, and it's possible that something will come up for dh, but he's not in a field where telecommuting is a possibility nor one where he can easily choose where he wants to live and then look for a job locally.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: kristenhendricks55 <kristenhendricks55@...>
Just wondering, when 7yo recieves a present for his borthday... how
do things workout with 4yo? Do you take away the 7yo's toy until the
4yo isnt around?
Also, have you thought of maving closer to a city so that your son
could get the help he needs on a regular basis?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
In looking at therapists, I was really trying to find someone who would do more play therapy. There's no way my son would sit down and talk directly about his frustrations with anyone. Um, actually, talking to anyone outside the family at all is not really up his alley:-) I was really stunned when one therapist, after meeting him and seeing that he wouldn't talk, then showed up with a clipboard and questions, "When do you feel angry? Happy?" at the next appointment. When ds wouldn't answer, just kept playing with the Fisher Price toys (hmm... another castle!) in her office, she looked at me and said, "Well, I don't want to waste your time. Do you want me to keep trying or do you want to go now or do you have any other suggestions?" I proposed that maybe she could find a way to use the toys and play with him -- which she did -- but I couldn't believe I had to suggest that to someone with years of experience working with children.
Trying to find the balance between not wanting to leave unturned the stone that might help my child and yet not wanting to turn our lives into obsessing with an issue that may just be the way ds is and we/he need to learn to live with, is a challenge.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...>
I'm sure that there are some 7 year olds that are open to discussing
their anger and how to prevent it or ways to control impulses, such
as counting or breathing. And I suppose there are also some that
are willing to talk to a doctor about these things. But knowing my
daughter, I knew that a doctor would be distinctly unhelpful and, as
Danielle suggested, send her wrong messages about herself. <snip>
It might be helpful to explore the issue of food sensitivity, and
that's usually the first thing people will suggest, especially on
unschooling lists. It might be helpful to talk to a therapist. It
might also be helpful to accept where your son is right now and let
him know that you are there to help him and listen to what he wants
and try to find ways to get what he wants (without hurting his
brother).
-Christy M.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trying to find the balance between not wanting to leave unturned the stone that might help my child and yet not wanting to turn our lives into obsessing with an issue that may just be the way ds is and we/he need to learn to live with, is a challenge.
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...>
I'm sure that there are some 7 year olds that are open to discussing
their anger and how to prevent it or ways to control impulses, such
as counting or breathing. And I suppose there are also some that
are willing to talk to a doctor about these things. But knowing my
daughter, I knew that a doctor would be distinctly unhelpful and, as
Danielle suggested, send her wrong messages about herself. <snip>
It might be helpful to explore the issue of food sensitivity, and
that's usually the first thing people will suggest, especially on
unschooling lists. It might be helpful to talk to a therapist. It
might also be helpful to accept where your son is right now and let
him know that you are there to help him and listen to what he wants
and try to find ways to get what he wants (without hurting his
brother).
-Christy M.
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Katharine Wise
I think potentially though a doctor or therapist may have more information that could be helpful. I'd read parts before, but I recently read Ross Greene's The Explosive Child completely and surprised myself by how much I appreciated his description of the different routes that can lead to inflexible-explosive reactions. He really emphasized how important it can be to know which routes are causing a problem for your child. Depending on the route you might respond in different ways to help minimize their frustration. The therapist may be able to model different ways of approaching issues that I wouldn't think of in their interaction with my child. Plus, while I know my child better than anyone else, my ability to describe that child so that they have a good image is not as effective as actually meeting him. When you meet him, then you experience what "shy" means for this child.
I agree that counseling shouldn't be to try and change someone else. (My in-laws tried that once.)
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 11:24:43 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
I wanted to point out that I also only suggest outside help for the parent and not the child.
I have never gotten counseling so I could change my children but for me to change how I was dealing with them ( the old records playing without me being able to stop them...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree that counseling shouldn't be to try and change someone else. (My in-laws tried that once.)
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 11:24:43 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] problem
I wanted to point out that I also only suggest outside help for the parent and not the child.
I have never gotten counseling so I could change my children but for me to change how I was dealing with them ( the old records playing without me being able to stop them...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Mouser
Katharine,
I have a 12-YO diagnosed with Asperger's. Many therapists are not
very helpful, although I have met several I was impressed with. Have
you heard of RDI (Relational Development Intervention)? I think this
approach is wonderful for improving social skills, play, working with
others, etc. The parent works with the child doing various
activities (folding blankets together, etc.). Then they assign a
play buddy who is approximately at the same level.
Hope that helps,
Beth-
-- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
talk directly about his frustrations with anyone. Um, actually,
talking to anyone outside the family at all is not really up his
alley:-) I was really stunned when one therapist, after meeting him
and seeing that he wouldn't talk, then showed up with a clipboard and
questions, "When do you feel angry? Happy?" at the next
appointment. When ds wouldn't answer, just kept playing with the
Fisher Price toys (hmm... another castle!) in her office, she looked
at me and said, "Well, I don't want to waste your time. Do you want
me to keep trying or do you want to go now or do you have any other
suggestions?" I proposed that maybe she could find a way to use the
toys and play with him -- which she did -- but I couldn't believe I
had to suggest that to someone with years of experience working with
children.
lives into obsessing with an issue that may just be the way ds is and
we/he need to learn to live with, is a challenge.
______________
I have a 12-YO diagnosed with Asperger's. Many therapists are not
very helpful, although I have met several I was impressed with. Have
you heard of RDI (Relational Development Intervention)? I think this
approach is wonderful for improving social skills, play, working with
others, etc. The parent works with the child doing various
activities (folding blankets together, etc.). Then they assign a
play buddy who is approximately at the same level.
Hope that helps,
Beth-
-- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>would do more play therapy. There's no way my son would sit down and
> In looking at therapists, I was really trying to find someone who
talk directly about his frustrations with anyone. Um, actually,
talking to anyone outside the family at all is not really up his
alley:-) I was really stunned when one therapist, after meeting him
and seeing that he wouldn't talk, then showed up with a clipboard and
questions, "When do you feel angry? Happy?" at the next
appointment. When ds wouldn't answer, just kept playing with the
Fisher Price toys (hmm... another castle!) in her office, she looked
at me and said, "Well, I don't want to waste your time. Do you want
me to keep trying or do you want to go now or do you have any other
suggestions?" I proposed that maybe she could find a way to use the
toys and play with him -- which she did -- but I couldn't believe I
had to suggest that to someone with years of experience working with
children.
>the stone that might help my child and yet not wanting to turn our
> Trying to find the balance between not wanting to leave unturned
lives into obsessing with an issue that may just be the way ds is and
we/he need to learn to live with, is a challenge.
>discussing
> Katharine
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...>
>
>
> I'm sure that there are some 7 year olds that are open to
>as
> their anger and how to prevent it or ways to control impulses, such
>
> as counting or breathing. And I suppose there are also some that
>
> are willing to talk to a doctor about these things. But knowing my
>
> daughter, I knew that a doctor would be distinctly unhelpful and,
>serif;}
> Danielle suggested, send her wrong messages about herself. <snip>
>
>
>
> It might be helpful to explore the issue of food sensitivity, and
>
> that's usually the first thing people will suggest, especially on
>
> unschooling lists. It might be helpful to talk to a therapist. It
>
> might also be helpful to accept where your son is right now and let
>
> him know that you are there to help him and listen to what he wants
>
> and try to find ways to get what he wants (without hurting his
>
> brother).
>
>
>
> -Christy M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> The fish are biting.
> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
kristenhendricks55
I think maybe instead of talking with the kids about how to play
with the castle nicely (which I don't see why the 4yo would even be
involved in that conversation since you say it's totally one sided),
why not sit down and talk about how to deal with your 7yo acting
out. Maybe you could say to him "when you are fighting
with "brother" what do you think mommy and daddy should do? Do you
think it is fair for me to take away brothers toys, or do you think
it is fair for me to ask you to calm down in your room?"
Maybe if you included him in the reasoning, he may not see it as a
punishment but more of as a means for him to regroup and get his
thoughts straight and let off a little frustration in privacy. Have
you tried explaning to him why it hurts brother when he bites or
hits? Maybe remind him of a time when he was hurt and ask him how he
felt?
This is what we did when my second daughter began crawling and
taking older daughters toys. We explained to older daughter that
younger daughter only wanted to play as well, but we let her pick
one very special toy that was all hers. Whenever she was getting
frustrated that her sister was taking all of her things, she would
go and get this one toy (a doll) that she knew was only hers.
Whenever younger daughter would then try to take the doll, I would
say to her "no that is your sisters doll, and only her toy" and then
we decided to pick out a toy that was "only" her toy (for older
daughters sake since the younger one didnt understand lol).
In retrospect, I remember seeing both of them share their "special"
toys with each other because they wanted to, not because they had to.
What if you gave 7yo a special toy that younger brother oculd not
have and made 4yos castle (or whatever toy he likes best) his
special toy?
Just a thought... :)
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
Actually, from a physical standpoint, they're more attacks than
fights -- very one-sided. This was the second biggie in the 24
hours since the castle had been opened. What I told them was that
we needed to put the castle away until we could figure out how we
could play with it without anyone's getting hurt. But I knew that
during "Quiet Time" (which I explained in response to another post)
the 4yo could play with his gift safely. He was getting bitten (or
would have if dh hadn't pulled 7yo off) *and* losing his present
(for a little while -- but I knew it seemed forever in his mind).
posted. Often, if I'm right there and see it coming (but sometimes
I don't), I can get between them, reassure everyone that we can find
a solution that will work for everyone, and 7yo won't spiral out of
control. But the castle was definitely precipitating some serious
spiraling.
where telecommuting is a possibility nor one where he can easily
choose where he wants to live and then look for a job locally.
_______________
with the castle nicely (which I don't see why the 4yo would even be
involved in that conversation since you say it's totally one sided),
why not sit down and talk about how to deal with your 7yo acting
out. Maybe you could say to him "when you are fighting
with "brother" what do you think mommy and daddy should do? Do you
think it is fair for me to take away brothers toys, or do you think
it is fair for me to ask you to calm down in your room?"
Maybe if you included him in the reasoning, he may not see it as a
punishment but more of as a means for him to regroup and get his
thoughts straight and let off a little frustration in privacy. Have
you tried explaning to him why it hurts brother when he bites or
hits? Maybe remind him of a time when he was hurt and ask him how he
felt?
This is what we did when my second daughter began crawling and
taking older daughters toys. We explained to older daughter that
younger daughter only wanted to play as well, but we let her pick
one very special toy that was all hers. Whenever she was getting
frustrated that her sister was taking all of her things, she would
go and get this one toy (a doll) that she knew was only hers.
Whenever younger daughter would then try to take the doll, I would
say to her "no that is your sisters doll, and only her toy" and then
we decided to pick out a toy that was "only" her toy (for older
daughters sake since the younger one didnt understand lol).
In retrospect, I remember seeing both of them share their "special"
toys with each other because they wanted to, not because they had to.
What if you gave 7yo a special toy that younger brother oculd not
have and made 4yos castle (or whatever toy he likes best) his
special toy?
Just a thought... :)
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>putting the castle away was because the fights get physical.
> I don't recall what the 7yo got for his birthday! The reason for
Actually, from a physical standpoint, they're more attacks than
fights -- very one-sided. This was the second biggie in the 24
hours since the castle had been opened. What I told them was that
we needed to put the castle away until we could figure out how we
could play with it without anyone's getting hurt. But I knew that
during "Quiet Time" (which I explained in response to another post)
the 4yo could play with his gift safely. He was getting bitten (or
would have if dh hadn't pulled 7yo off) *and* losing his present
(for a little while -- but I knew it seemed forever in his mind).
>see a whole lot of in-the-moment alternatives -- which is why I
> I wasn't really happy with my putting the castle up but I didn't
posted. Often, if I'm right there and see it coming (but sometimes
I don't), I can get between them, reassure everyone that we can find
a solution that will work for everyone, and 7yo won't spiral out of
control. But the castle was definitely precipitating some serious
spiraling.
>possible that something will come up for dh, but he's not in a field
> Re moving closer to a city... in many ways we'd love to, and it's
where telecommuting is a possibility nor one where he can easily
choose where he wants to live and then look for a job locally.
>borthday... how
> Katharine
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: kristenhendricks55 <kristenhendricks55@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just wondering, when 7yo recieves a present for his
>the
> do things workout with 4yo? Do you take away the 7yo's toy until
>_____________________________________________________________________
> 4yo isnt around?
>
>
>
> Also, have you thought of maving closer to a city so that your son
>
> could get the help he needs on a regular basis?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.flight and hotel bargains.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Katharine Wise
Hi Melissa,
How did you figure out it was corn? This is what's so frustrating to me -- it seems everytime I decide to try one elimination someone comes forth and suggests a different one! Dairy, gluten, corn, Feingold/salicylates. Did you know that pistachios, cashews, and mangos belong to the same family? That one's been suggested too, although while my kids love those we don't have them regularly enough for me to believe they can possibly be the root issue for us!
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
We did a
total wheat-free and casein-free diet with our daughter, but in the long run, it was corn. Not
just corn syrup, but corn meal, corn starch, dextrose, any sweetner with a corn base. Lovely.
.
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How did you figure out it was corn? This is what's so frustrating to me -- it seems everytime I decide to try one elimination someone comes forth and suggests a different one! Dairy, gluten, corn, Feingold/salicylates. Did you know that pistachios, cashews, and mangos belong to the same family? That one's been suggested too, although while my kids love those we don't have them regularly enough for me to believe they can possibly be the root issue for us!
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
We did a
total wheat-free and casein-free diet with our daughter, but in the long run, it was corn. Not
just corn syrup, but corn meal, corn starch, dextrose, any sweetner with a corn base. Lovely.
.
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
Hi Melissa,
Sure, you can ask a question -- or a lot of them:-) Actually, I think I answered a number of them in my reply to Danielle where I explained the whole scenario in detail, so I won't repeat.
Do the needs of the 7yo supercede the needs of the rest of the family? Sometimes it feels that way -- his needs are pretty intense these days, and if they aren't met then some of the basic needs of the rest of the family aren't met either like safety of self and possessions. The four year old did receive some comforting and explanation, but not until later by which point he'd moved on to other things anyway. Today the 4yo explained that he was afraid the castle would get hurt when he wasn't playing with, although he quickly acknowledged that he didn't think the 7yo would hurt it because the 7yo likes playing with it. Not convinced that that was really what was going through 4yo's mind the other day though.
If you have any new suggestions from your own experience, I'd love to hear them on or off list. It's quite likely that both of my older boys are diagnosable on the autism spectrum, but we've never gone that route. Oldest is happy, focused, productive just highly energetic, impulsive, and socially immature. Middle is more of a concern to me because of both the anger and the underlying sense that he's not really happy (although that's seeming better to me recently) -- he's also *really* shy.
Thanks,
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 11:13:00 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: problem
Can I ask a question (okay, a couple of questions)? <snip>
I ask not because I'm trying to be snotty, but because it sounds familiar. <snip>I've also quite a bit of experience helping other families with extreme
behaviors, due to my position in the autism society. It sounds like you are doing a really great job trying to find help for your whole family, and especially your seven year old son.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sure, you can ask a question -- or a lot of them:-) Actually, I think I answered a number of them in my reply to Danielle where I explained the whole scenario in detail, so I won't repeat.
Do the needs of the 7yo supercede the needs of the rest of the family? Sometimes it feels that way -- his needs are pretty intense these days, and if they aren't met then some of the basic needs of the rest of the family aren't met either like safety of self and possessions. The four year old did receive some comforting and explanation, but not until later by which point he'd moved on to other things anyway. Today the 4yo explained that he was afraid the castle would get hurt when he wasn't playing with, although he quickly acknowledged that he didn't think the 7yo would hurt it because the 7yo likes playing with it. Not convinced that that was really what was going through 4yo's mind the other day though.
If you have any new suggestions from your own experience, I'd love to hear them on or off list. It's quite likely that both of my older boys are diagnosable on the autism spectrum, but we've never gone that route. Oldest is happy, focused, productive just highly energetic, impulsive, and socially immature. Middle is more of a concern to me because of both the anger and the underlying sense that he's not really happy (although that's seeming better to me recently) -- he's also *really* shy.
Thanks,
Katharine
----- Original Message ----
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 11:13:00 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: problem
Can I ask a question (okay, a couple of questions)? <snip>
I ask not because I'm trying to be snotty, but because it sounds familiar. <snip>I've also quite a bit of experience helping other families with extreme
behaviors, due to my position in the autism society. It sounds like you are doing a really great job trying to find help for your whole family, and especially your seven year old son.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
At the risk of being severely offtopic, my son is allergic to wheat, he doesn't just have
celiac, but also an actual anaphylactic reaction to any wheat product. While getting used to
that, we were on nearly complete rice/corn diet. By fluke, we had rice products for a week,
and then one day had something with corn. She had been doing good, but wigged out
completely. When we mentioned it to our therapist, she's the one who made the
connection. We eliminated it, along with all the other corn stuff. It has made a huge
difference in her rage and in her stim behaviors (head banging, self mutilation, etc) In fact,
that's how we found out pringles were fried in corn oil, ack! At a family gathering no less.
It really is hard, especially when you're unschooling, and trying to let them make their own
choices. Today she kept grabbing the bowl of suckers, and I was just wincing, thinking if
she eats these we are sooo screwed for days, because it takes that long to come down.
Some days just pointing out that they have corn can bring on anger outbursts. Fortunately
tonight the store had in stock the sugar free tootsie rolls, which are corn free. I bought
them out!
celiac, but also an actual anaphylactic reaction to any wheat product. While getting used to
that, we were on nearly complete rice/corn diet. By fluke, we had rice products for a week,
and then one day had something with corn. She had been doing good, but wigged out
completely. When we mentioned it to our therapist, she's the one who made the
connection. We eliminated it, along with all the other corn stuff. It has made a huge
difference in her rage and in her stim behaviors (head banging, self mutilation, etc) In fact,
that's how we found out pringles were fried in corn oil, ack! At a family gathering no less.
It really is hard, especially when you're unschooling, and trying to let them make their own
choices. Today she kept grabbing the bowl of suckers, and I was just wincing, thinking if
she eats these we are sooo screwed for days, because it takes that long to come down.
Some days just pointing out that they have corn can bring on anger outbursts. Fortunately
tonight the store had in stock the sugar free tootsie rolls, which are corn free. I bought
them out!
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Melissa,
>
> How did you figure out it was corn? This is what's so frustrating to me -- it seems
everytime I decide to try one elimination someone comes forth and suggests a different
one! Dairy, gluten, corn, Feingold/salicylates. Did you know that pistachios, cashews, and
mangos belong to the same family? That one's been suggested too, although while my
kids love those we don't have them regularly enough for me to believe they can possibly
be the root issue for us!
>
> Katharine
>