Kimberly

I am new to unschooling. I have read all the books and I have checked
out the websites. I belong to a few unschooling lists. However, I
still have concerns as to whther this is the right path for us. I love
the idea of unschooling. We have been doing school at home since we
began homeschooling 3 years ago. I can't seem to get my head out of
that mindset. I am terrified that my kids will learn nothing at all.
They hate to read, they sort of like math but wouldn't do it left to
their own devices. They don't write stories, they don't do much of
anything except play computer and video games. They do have a vivid
imagination and will often make their own homemade toys, but I am still
comcerned about how they will ever succeed as adults if I don't "teach"
them anything. Does anyone have any advice for this newbie? Oh, and I
guess it would be helpful to know that my kiddos are 9 dd and 10 ds.

Schafer Vanessa

Kimberly,

I am new to this also. My kids were in public school,
until September of last year. They do play alot of
video games, and play on the computer alot too. I am
ok with this, because they are learning new things as
they play. My ds is 11 and my dd is 9. They don't
mind not doing school, because they've had so much of
it. We are able to have the freedom's that we've
never had before, and we love it. We have baked,
cooked, and traveled with my parents. We do math when
we go to the grocery store, because I have them keep a
tab on how much we've spent by rounding dollar amounts
up to the next even amount, and adding it all
together. They do pretty good. We did some gardening
this last summer/fall, and decided we weren't planting
any hostas because they were too hard to dig up. Kids
learn all of the time, even if it doesn't look like
they are doing anything. I love the unschooling life,
we learn every day by life's little lessons, and if
they ask questions, we find out the answers together.

If you try it, and don't like it, you can always try a
different way. My kids love it, because they had so
many things to do at school (my son had no less than 4
or 5 book reports to do at public school, and hated
doing them, and my daughter had her own set of issues
too.) Unschooling affords them to learn about the
things they find interesting. That's what is
important--getting their love of learning back, by
letting them pick and choose what they want to learn
about.

Good luck, let go, and have some fun. Take time to
enjoy your kids. I am still trying to reconnect with
my kids, and learn what's important to them.
--- Kimberly <khaysgrow@...> wrote:

> I am new to unschooling. I have read all the books
> and I have checked
> out the websites. I belong to a few unschooling
> lists. However, I
> still have concerns as to whther this is the right
> path for us. I love
> the idea of unschooling. We have been doing school
> at home since we
> began homeschooling 3 years ago. I can't seem to
> get my head out of
> that mindset. I am terrified that my kids will
> learn nothing at all.
> They hate to read, they sort of like math but
> wouldn't do it left to
> their own devices. They don't write stories, they
> don't do much of
> anything except play computer and video games. They
> do have a vivid
> imagination and will often make their own homemade
> toys, but I am still
> comcerned about how they will ever succeed as adults
> if I don't "teach"
> them anything. Does anyone have any advice for this
> newbie? Oh, and I
> guess it would be helpful to know that my kiddos are
> 9 dd and 10 ds.
>
>


Vanessa




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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Kimberly" <khaysgrow@...>
wrote:
>I am terrified that my kids will learn nothing at all.
> They hate to read, they sort of like math but wouldn't do it left
to
> their own devices. They don't write stories, they don't do much
of
> anything except play computer and video games. They do have a
vivid
> imagination and will often make their own homemade toys, but I am
still
> comcerned about how they will ever succeed as adults if I
don't "teach"
> them anything.

Many people don't read for fun, or do any math they can avoid (even
balancing checkbooks), never write stories and spend most of the day
on the computer. I can think of half a dozen "successful" people I
know personally who fit that description (okay, One of them writes
stories! but that's not his main job).

Take some time on your own to think of all the things you did/do for
pleasure and what kinds of things you learned from them. Look at the
adults around you who are happy - where and how did they learn "what
they needed" to be who and where they are today?

What kinds of computer games do your kids enjoy? Do you play them
too? That can be a big mental hurdle for a Lot of adults - kind of
like Rock and Roll was a big mental hurdle a couple generations
ago ;) Try out some different games - really try, too, don't just
play for fifteen minutes and throw down the controller in
frustration. There's a learning curve in figuring out the controls,
especially if you're brand new. Play enough to get a sense of what
the goals are in the game and which parts are exciting to your kids.
Ask them for help and advice (let *them* teach *you* something,
maybe!). Decide if you find the same parts fun or frustrating -
there's some valuble information, right there, about interests and
learning styles. Talk with your kids about the games from the
perspective of someone who plays them - its a *different*
perspective, and one that will bring you closer to your kids.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Schafer Vanessa
<psychomom95@...> wrote:
>> We do math when
> we go to the grocery store, because I have them keep a
> tab on how much we've spent by rounding dollar amounts
> up to the next even amount, and adding it all
> together.

My stepson (13) has only been out of school for a couple months and
hates anything that reminds him of school, so asking him to "do
math" in any kind of contrived form is out of the question. He's
learning to cook, though, and he's a big eater, so he's forever
doubling recipes. Its not something I have to make him do - its part
of his life, so he just does it.

The other day we were talking about our budget (and current lack
thereof) and what kind of game system we'd like to get when we have
the cash. He knows an amazing amount about which systems tend to
have more of which types of games, how much they cost new and used,
which stores have better deals - I was impressed. He's great at that
kind of comparitive analysis. Once again, not something I had to
tell him to do - he's interested in the subject (both subjects! he
*wants* to know about the family finances) so he learns about it.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Ren Allen

~~I can't seem to get my head out of
that mindset. I am terrified that my kids will learn nothing at all.
They hate to read, they sort of like math but wouldn't do it left to
their own devices. They don't write stories, they don't do much of
anything except play computer and video games. ~~


Sounds like all the "teaching" is exacting a big toll on their love of
learning. Isn't working so great is it? Maybe it's time for a change.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Susan

> We have been doing school at home since we
> began homeschooling 3 years ago. I can't seem to get my head out of
> that mindset. I am terrified that my kids will learn nothing at all.
> They hate to read, they sort of like math but wouldn't do it left to
> their own devices. They don't write stories, they don't do much of
> anything except play computer and video games. They do have a vivid
> imagination and will often make their own homemade toys, but I am still
> comcerned about how they will ever succeed as adults if I don't "teach"
> them anything.

You're right, you are still stuck in that school mindset, <grin> I see
two problems that are keeping you hemmed in that frame of mind.

First, you mention that if left to their own devices they wouldn't
"do" math. You have to stop thinking about math in terms of
worksheets, textbooks, pages of drill problems and memorizing the
times table, etc. You're thinking of learning as this separate process
that occurs outside the realm of real life only when workbooks and
school assignments are present. That's really limiting. They will "do"
math as it applies to their life. If they have an allowance and they
want to buy something from the store then they'll have to figure out
how much they need to save and so forth. If they want to make a cake
they'll need to understand measurements like weight, volume, and
temperature. I'm sure they'll learn to tell time just by going about
their lives (or perhaps they already know).

Certain math skills are required in common living experiences, others
aren't. And if they aren't necessary for everyday living, then there
isn't a reason to know them right now because that information would
serve no purpose; it has no forseeable application. You're right -
your kids probably will avoid doing workbook stuff, and if that's the
only way you think of learning, then you're definitely selling things
short! It's certainly not the only way to learn math or any other
skill.

Second - and this may be the hardest thing you'll ever do - you need
to stop thinking that you ever taught them anything. You didn't. You
might have helped them further their own understanding, but the truth
is that the only way anyone ever learns is when we're ready,
interested, and have received the information in a meaningful way.
*They* learned it, you helped them by providing information or
experiences. But you didn't open up their heads and insert the
information.

Did you "teach" your kids to walk? To eat? No. You might have held
their hands and surrounded them with opportunity, encouragement and
examples, but you didn't teach it. Just as surely you didn't teach
them their ABCs or how to read. It's funny how society looks at
learning as if it's something done to a child, like a process applied
to a kid by the teacher. But it's not. It's internal and natural and
automatic when the right elements are in place. I read somewhere that
it's helpful to replace the word "teach" with the word "learn". You
could even put a dollar in a jar everything you think or say, "I
teach" or "they were taught".

Maybe if you could get past those two (admittedly big) hurdles then
you'd be able to relax a bit and feel comfortable giving unschooling a
real go.

-- Susan

Schafer Vanessa

I don't ask my kids to do math. They are simply
helping me to remember how much money we are spending,
because we are on such a limited budget. I don't
always remember where we are at with the money, so
they help me. Every child is different. Not all of
them like doing the same things. Mine don't mind
doing this, because they are helping mommy.

They also have different intersts. My son loves video
games, and plays them all the time. He keeps trying
to figure out different ways to afford new games, and
is quickly learning that selling them to Game Stop is
not such a good idea- that he won't get what
he's/we've paid for them.

My daughter spent some time yesterday, playing with
some cardboard, and blocks of styrofoam, building a
castle she named after her. She also did puzzles, and
played with her dolls, and played video games with my
son.

They have now been out of school for four-five months
and are loving it. They still learn, and are not
asked to do math on a daily basis. Helping me track
of how much we spend, is just that "helping me", and
nothing more. When I have two kids with me talking to
me at the same time, I tend to forget where we are
with money. This just helps me remember.
--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> --- In [email protected], Schafer
> Vanessa
> <psychomom95@...> wrote:
> >> We do math when
> > we go to the grocery store, because I have them
> keep a
> > tab on how much we've spent by rounding dollar
> amounts
> > up to the next even amount, and adding it all
> > together.
>
> My stepson (13) has only been out of school for a
> couple months and
> hates anything that reminds him of school, so asking
> him to "do
> math" in any kind of contrived form is out of the
> question. He's
> learning to cook, though, and he's a big eater, so
> he's forever
> doubling recipes. Its not something I have to make
> him do - its part
> of his life, so he just does it.
>
> The other day we were talking about our budget (and
> current lack
> thereof) and what kind of game system we'd like to
> get when we have
> the cash. He knows an amazing amount about which
> systems tend to
> have more of which types of games, how much they
> cost new and used,
> which stores have better deals - I was impressed.
> He's great at that
> kind of comparitive analysis. Once again, not
> something I had to
> tell him to do - he's interested in the subject
> (both subjects! he
> *wants* to know about the family finances) so he
> learns about it.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>
>


Vanessa




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Ren Allen

~~Helping me track
of how much we spend, is just that "helping me", and
nothing more. ~~

You put "helping me" in quotations which leads me to believe they
aren't really helping, but being taught under the guise of helping?

If they're helping because they enjoy it, that's one thing. If you're
creating these "lessons" at the grocery store to get some math in,
then that's not truly trusting their own learning process.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Schafer Vanessa

They are helping me, because they want to, not because
I am trying to sneak math in.

--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:

> ~~Helping me track
> of how much we spend, is just that "helping me", and
> nothing more. ~~
>
> You put "helping me" in quotations which leads me to
> believe they
> aren't really helping, but being taught under the
> guise of helping?
>
> If they're helping because they enjoy it, that's one
> thing. If you're
> creating these "lessons" at the grocery store to get
> some math in,
> then that's not truly trusting their own learning
> process.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>


Vanessa




____________________________________________________________________________________
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Debra

>Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I posted, but thought I would throw in my two
cents worth. I've been reading all your posts on children eating
sweets, and I just think, my story needs to be told. I am a overweight
mom of a 11 year old overweight daughter, and to be honest with you, I
really don't know who is right or wrong about how a child grows up, one
having no sweets in the house verses one having anything they wanted. I
feel that I eat out of stress, due to money issues, being single again,
and my disabilities. I also believe my daughter eats for the same
reasons. Living off the state for any disabilities doesn't bring enough
money in for anything, let alone the bills. I've really needed to be
watching my daughters and my eating habits, however the more stress,
the more you eat. Right before my disabilities we use to walk 3 miles a
day without a problem, since then, and two years ago, we have had to
live another life. We are lucky if we can get to the YWCA a few times a
week to do water workouts. Since this all has happened in our life, I
have put on 50 pounds, my daughter has put on 50-60 pounds. She is now
at danger of going on pills for Diabetes this week. She just can't seem
to shake off the weight, myself included. I have tried everything I
could to keep healthy stuff around the house, it doesn't work, we end
up going out and getting something sweet at the end of almost each day.
I allow one or maybe two sweets a day, but it just seems as if we
aren't loosing the weight. I come from a family where my mother was a
junk food junkie, but in secret, she hid all the stuff. As kids we
weren't allowed to have much. When my daughter was born, she was a very
picky eater, and wouldn't eat much at all. Infact I had to feed her 7
or 8 times a day just to make sure she got enough food intake. I think
she has learned the eating pattern from watching me, even though I
never really offered her a lot of sweets, it seems like I just can't
stop her either. I would like to change things and let her eat all she
wants, but at this point I'm to scared. She has type 2 diabetes that
can be controlled with what she eats, and Doctors say 2 hrs of
exercise a day. "A bit too unrealistic in my book". Any pointers, I
would love to hear them. I seem to be stuck...

Debra

Schafer Vanessa

I have been thinking alot about what you just emailed.


I am still new at this, and haven't been "teaching" my
kids anything. My kids were in school up until
September of last year, so we are still deschooling.
We just go with the flow of things, and when they are
interested in something we learn about it together.
There is no forced learning at our house. That was
what they did in public school.

When I was talking about having them help me keep
track of what we spend, it was not a math lesson. My
kids are less than two years a part in age, and tend
to both talk to me at the same time. When I am trying
to keep track of what we spend, (not because I want
to, but because money is extremely tight.) and they
are talking to me at the same time, I lose my train of
thought and have to start all over again. So when
they help me, it is not because I am trying to sneak
in some kind of math lesson, it is because they like
to help, and we add all the number together. It isn't
just them, it's me too. I don't make them help me,
they do it because they like to.

I am still new at this, and am bound to make mistakes.
I am, by no means a perfect parent. I am not angry.
I just don't understand when I'm trying to show how
things are used in every day life, I keep being told
that I am doing things wrong. If I call adding
numbers together math, it's because that's how I've
always thought of it, not because it's a schooly term,
what else would you call it?

My wording was probably a little off when I said I
have them help, but I don't make them help. I don't
mind some constructive comments, but sometimes it
seems like I come under fire alot. I guess part of me
needed to talk about this, just to get it off my
chest.

Thanks!!

























--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:

> ~~Helping me track
> of how much we spend, is just that "helping me", and
> nothing more. ~~
>
> You put "helping me" in quotations which leads me to
> believe they
> aren't really helping, but being taught under the
> guise of helping?
>
> If they're helping because they enjoy it, that's one
> thing. If you're
> creating these "lessons" at the grocery store to get
> some math in,
> then that's not truly trusting their own learning
> process.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>


Vanessa




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Kelly Lovejoy

--- In [email protected], Schafer Vanessa <psychomom95@...>
wrote:
>
> I am still new at this, and haven't been "teaching" my
> kids anything.

> When I was talking about having them help me keep
> track of what we spend, it was not a math lesson. My
> kids are less than two years a part in age, and tend
> to both talk to me at the same time. When I am trying
> to keep track of what we spend, (not because I want
> to, but because money is extremely tight.) and they
> are talking to me at the same time, I lose my train of
> thought and have to start all over again. So when
> they help me, it is not because I am trying to sneak
> in some kind of math lesson, it is because they like
> to help, and we add all the number together. It isn't
> just them, it's me too. I don't make them help me,
> they do it because they like to.
>
> I am still new at this, and am bound to make mistakes.
> I am, by no means a perfect parent. I am not angry.
> I just don't understand when I'm trying to show how
> things are used in every day life, I keep being told
> that I am doing things wrong. If I call adding
> numbers together math, it's because that's how I've
> always thought of it, not because it's a schooly term,
> what else would you call it?
>
> My wording was probably a little off when I said I
> have them help, but I don't make them help. I don't
> mind some constructive comments, but sometimes it
> seems like I come under fire alot. I guess part of me
> needed to talk about this, just to get it off my
> chest.
>
> Thanks!!

-=--==-=-==-

Vanessa,

Ren's reply wasn't meant to attack you. She was simply questioning your motive. ANd
again---not to attack, but to help *you* (and others) see how we say things can color how
we are perceived.

I do exactly what you do. Duncan and I keep a running tally of about how much we're
spending---rounded up or down a bit depending on the last item. $1.19 beans, $3
onions, $2.37 chicken stock, $3.99 sausage would end up being almost $10. Do I make
him? No---he could go off and do other things or not even accompany me to the store.
But when we go together, it's a game we play and have since before he was born (with his
brother).

When we can change our language, we can change our thoughts and make that paradigm
shift. But it's not easy!

You're not being told "you're doing it wrong." You're actually doing it *right*! <g>---but
folks here *will* question your motives. Just SO you'll explain further (or think about it at
home and not post sometimes) as you focus onthe what, how, and why.

Your explanation above made more unschooly sense than your original post. It explains
what and how and why. You're doing fine.

~Kelly

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Debra"
<countrywestern1@...> wrote:

> I
> feel that I eat out of stress, due to money issues, being single
again,
> and my disabilities. I also believe my daughter eats for the same
> reasons.

How do y'all talk about these issues? Do you have any sources of
emotional support? If eating is a coping strategy, changing y'all's
eating habits will only leave you feeling more stressed - you need
to develop some new strategies *first*.

Does your dd feel like her life is out of control? That's hard. I'd
look for ways to help her feel more autonomous in general so she has
less need to "fall back" on the strategy of eating to cope.

Does she have someone other than you she can talk with? I suspect
she has some grieving to do that she may not be comfortable sharing
with you. I'd look into resources for families of people with
disabilities - even a book or online support group may be helpful
for her.

>She has type 2 diabetes that
> can be controlled with what she eats, and Doctors say 2 hrs of
> exercise a day. "A bit too unrealistic in my book". Any pointers,
I
> would love to hear them. I seem to be stuck

Are there ways to fit more movement into your dd's life? Simple yoga
positions, an excersise ball, a second-hand exercycle or mini-
trampoline? Those are the sorts of things she can even do while
doing something else - reading or watching tv, for instance. Don't
try for two hours of excercise all at once. Try to add a little bit
here and there with an emphasis on feeling better and more in touch
with and control of her own body, not losing weight. It *is*
possible to be healthy at a higher weight.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Debra

Yes, you are right, and I have tried many things, one being working out in the Y's pool when we can get there. Other wise, I bought an exercise bike "which takes me pulling her arm to get motivated to even get her on it". We have started walking again, if we can do even a few blocks a day or every other day, but the weather has not been our friend, with the snow and ice. We take a few Tripp's a week to Super Wal-mart where we walk, or I ride on the electric cart while she walks around and around! But I just feel like it's not helping her to lose the weight. I"ve tried putting this Doctor appointment off three times now, in fear of what this medications side effects will have on her. I was told the side effects are rough.. I'm still not sure I'm going to go along with it, but I'm still in fear of her health. She is a beautiful young girl, but has the body of a 18 yr old, and men do look.. that really gets me upset. But she is a big girl, and that won't change, her weight
will over the years, and your right that doesn't mean she is not healthy. I feel if we can exercise as much as we can, and still eat the foods we like we will be one step ahead.. Thanks for your input..

plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote: --- In [email protected], "Debra"
<countrywestern1@...> wrote:

> I
> feel that I eat out of stress, due to money issues, being single
again,
> and my disabilities. I also believe my daughter eats for the same
> reasons.

How do y'all talk about these issues? Do you have any sources of
emotional support? If eating is a coping strategy, changing y'all's
eating habits will only leave you feeling more stressed - you need
to develop some new strategies *first*.

Does your dd feel like her life is out of control? That's hard. I'd
look for ways to help her feel more autonomous in general so she has
less need to "fall back" on the strategy of eating to cope.

Does she have someone other than you she can talk with? I suspect
she has some grieving to do that she may not be comfortable sharing
with you. I'd look into resources for families of people with
disabilities - even a book or online support group may be helpful
for her.

>She has type 2 diabetes that
> can be controlled with what she eats, and Doctors say 2 hrs of
> exercise a day. "A bit too unrealistic in my book". Any pointers,
I
> would love to hear them. I seem to be stuck

Are there ways to fit more movement into your dd's life? Simple yoga
positions, an excersise ball, a second-hand exercycle or mini-
trampoline? Those are the sorts of things she can even do while
doing something else - reading or watching tv, for instance. Don't
try for two hours of excercise all at once. Try to add a little bit
here and there with an emphasis on feeling better and more in touch
with and control of her own body, not losing weight. It *is*
possible to be healthy at a higher weight.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra

Hi Meredith,
Thanks for your response, I am in the process now of looking for the help my daughter needs. However I am very skeptical of getting help from the state, "which is the only way I can afford it" because they look into your personal life. I don't want anyone getting involved with our business, I know they won't agree with unschooling, and I don't want to go thru any more battles, which might be very departmental for my daughter at this point. I think I'll start looking on line to see what I can find out, haven't thought about the book store, duh! As far as grieving goes, I know she has been grieving, but is afraid to let it all out, even though we are close, she doesn't want to hurt me in any way. So her release is eating, as is mine.. I know we need to start getting out and joining some groups. I've been looking for just that, but haven't been successful as of yet. The groups I have found are for adults only "go figure". But I'm not giving up here. Thanks for your ideas,
I will look into them... Debra

Debra <countrywestern1@...> wrote:
Yes, you are right, and I have tried many things, one being working out in the Y's pool when we can get there. Other wise, I bought an exercise bike "which takes me pulling her arm to get motivated to even get her on it". We have started walking again, if we can do even a few blocks a day or every other day, but the weather has not been our friend, with the snow and ice. We take a few Tripp's a week to Super Wal-mart where we walk, or I ride on the electric cart while she walks around and around! But I just feel like it's not helping her to lose the weight. I"ve tried putting this Doctor appointment off three times now, in fear of what this medications side effects will have on her. I was told the side effects are rough.. I'm still not sure I'm going to go along with it, but I'm still in fear of her health. She is a beautiful young girl, but has the body of a 18 yr old, and men do look.. that really gets me upset. But she is a big girl, and that won't change, her
weight
will over the years, and your right that doesn't mean she is not healthy. I feel if we can exercise as much as we can, and still eat the foods we like we will be one step ahead.. Thanks for your input..

plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote: --- In [email protected], "Debra"
<countrywestern1@...> wrote:

> I
> feel that I eat out of stress, due to money issues, being single
again,
> and my disabilities. I also believe my daughter eats for the same
> reasons.

How do y'all talk about these issues? Do you have any sources of
emotional support? If eating is a coping strategy, changing y'all's
eating habits will only leave you feeling more stressed - you need
to develop some new strategies *first*.

Does your dd feel like her life is out of control? That's hard. I'd
look for ways to help her feel more autonomous in general so she has
less need to "fall back" on the strategy of eating to cope.

Does she have someone other than you she can talk with? I suspect
she has some grieving to do that she may not be comfortable sharing
with you. I'd look into resources for families of people with
disabilities - even a book or online support group may be helpful
for her.

>She has type 2 diabetes that
> can be controlled with what she eats, and Doctors say 2 hrs of
> exercise a day. "A bit too unrealistic in my book". Any pointers,
I
> would love to hear them. I seem to be stuck

Are there ways to fit more movement into your dd's life? Simple yoga
positions, an excersise ball, a second-hand exercycle or mini-
trampoline? Those are the sorts of things she can even do while
doing something else - reading or watching tv, for instance. Don't
try for two hours of excercise all at once. Try to add a little bit
here and there with an emphasis on feeling better and more in touch
with and control of her own body, not losing weight. It *is*
possible to be healthy at a higher weight.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

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