unschooling special needs children - long
Susan
HI, I have been reading the emails for a couple of months now,
evening posting a couple of times. I love reading the posts, although
I can find very few that I can relate to in my situation. I have
checked out Annie O's writings and find them wonderful. But I am
looking for some concrete experiences.
I am homeschooling my wonderful seven year old daughter with
asperger's syndrome. (For those of you who are not familiar with this
it is basically high functioning autism. She has the social and
language issues of autism but to a lesser degree. She is verbal, and
actually has a great vocabulary but uses language differently. She is
smart, but processes information in a way that I haven't actually
gotten the hang of. She obsesses over a few things to the exclusion
of what is going on around her. She is currently obsessing over
sweets and the zoo. And sweets at the zoo. This is all she is
interested in at the moment.)
I love the idea of unschooling with her, but I am having a hard time
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world. WE HAVE NOT DONE THIS SO FAR at home -
she does get speech therapy and sensory ot - she has many sensory
issues, but I am getting a little less confident as time goes on that
she doesn't need the more traditional approach. Truthfully, I cannot
tell what she is learning.
I guess what I am asking is this: is there anyone on this list that
has a child with significant learning/developmental issues that is
unschooling? I am looking for a concrete experience: this is how it
went for us..... As I said, I loved Annie's writings, but they are
vague in her child's challenges and how he is working with
unschooling. Sorry to sound desperate, but I am, a little. Thanks.
Susan
evening posting a couple of times. I love reading the posts, although
I can find very few that I can relate to in my situation. I have
checked out Annie O's writings and find them wonderful. But I am
looking for some concrete experiences.
I am homeschooling my wonderful seven year old daughter with
asperger's syndrome. (For those of you who are not familiar with this
it is basically high functioning autism. She has the social and
language issues of autism but to a lesser degree. She is verbal, and
actually has a great vocabulary but uses language differently. She is
smart, but processes information in a way that I haven't actually
gotten the hang of. She obsesses over a few things to the exclusion
of what is going on around her. She is currently obsessing over
sweets and the zoo. And sweets at the zoo. This is all she is
interested in at the moment.)
I love the idea of unschooling with her, but I am having a hard time
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world. WE HAVE NOT DONE THIS SO FAR at home -
she does get speech therapy and sensory ot - she has many sensory
issues, but I am getting a little less confident as time goes on that
she doesn't need the more traditional approach. Truthfully, I cannot
tell what she is learning.
I guess what I am asking is this: is there anyone on this list that
has a child with significant learning/developmental issues that is
unschooling? I am looking for a concrete experience: this is how it
went for us..... As I said, I loved Annie's writings, but they are
vague in her child's challenges and how he is working with
unschooling. Sorry to sound desperate, but I am, a little. Thanks.
Susan
Crystal
Hi Susan, you are not alone. My daughter is also an Aspie. She's
14. I've found that unschooling is the only way for her. She could
never have sat down with lessons! Her latest obsession is online
role playing. Role playing is basically acting out a story that the
kids make up as they go along--they get into character and play a
role. I'm figuring this helps her with her social skills as she can
act things out. She has major social skills issues. Before this
obsession, her obsession was poetry. She made friends online with
writers and she is having three of her poems published in a book.
The other subjects will come when they are ready. For example, if
my daughter wants to burn CD's she has to figure out how much space
she has and how many songs will fit on the CD based on their
length. She also knows how to check unit prices to figure out what
is cheapest.
AnneO is great, isn't she? I've been fighting with people not to
change my daughter for so long and AnneO comes along and just says
in a calm and soothing voice that your children should be honored
for who they are. When she says that, who could ever want their
children to change?
***She is verbal, and actually has a great vocabulary but uses
language differently.***
Susan, I've recently heard about Hyperplexia. Have you heard of
it? It's basically what you said about language and it is often
seen with Asperger's. I'm thinking my daughter might have it too,
but to a lesser degree since my daughter didn't read until she was
12. She could read the most complex word, but she had no clue what
it meant when you put it in a sentence. She had little
comprehension. Now that she's been unschooling and allowed time to
figure out the world of the written word for herself, she is so far
advanced in Language and Grammar skills.
I did sit with her for a little bit and help her figure out the
action in a sentence and who was doing the action. Once she got
over that hurdle, her comprehension just took off. If your daughter
wanted to knit a scarf, you'd show her how, then you'd let her make
her scarf herself, right? It's the same with learning anything.
You observe and listen to what your child is interested in, even if
it's snacks and the zoo. If you see your child struggling, you
offer help. Don't believe that your daughter needs things drilled
into her. It will only frustrate the both of you.
I could sit and discuss this subject all day but I have to run. I
hope this helps you a little until others come along.
Crystal
14. I've found that unschooling is the only way for her. She could
never have sat down with lessons! Her latest obsession is online
role playing. Role playing is basically acting out a story that the
kids make up as they go along--they get into character and play a
role. I'm figuring this helps her with her social skills as she can
act things out. She has major social skills issues. Before this
obsession, her obsession was poetry. She made friends online with
writers and she is having three of her poems published in a book.
The other subjects will come when they are ready. For example, if
my daughter wants to burn CD's she has to figure out how much space
she has and how many songs will fit on the CD based on their
length. She also knows how to check unit prices to figure out what
is cheapest.
AnneO is great, isn't she? I've been fighting with people not to
change my daughter for so long and AnneO comes along and just says
in a calm and soothing voice that your children should be honored
for who they are. When she says that, who could ever want their
children to change?
***She is verbal, and actually has a great vocabulary but uses
language differently.***
Susan, I've recently heard about Hyperplexia. Have you heard of
it? It's basically what you said about language and it is often
seen with Asperger's. I'm thinking my daughter might have it too,
but to a lesser degree since my daughter didn't read until she was
12. She could read the most complex word, but she had no clue what
it meant when you put it in a sentence. She had little
comprehension. Now that she's been unschooling and allowed time to
figure out the world of the written word for herself, she is so far
advanced in Language and Grammar skills.
I did sit with her for a little bit and help her figure out the
action in a sentence and who was doing the action. Once she got
over that hurdle, her comprehension just took off. If your daughter
wanted to knit a scarf, you'd show her how, then you'd let her make
her scarf herself, right? It's the same with learning anything.
You observe and listen to what your child is interested in, even if
it's snacks and the zoo. If you see your child struggling, you
offer help. Don't believe that your daughter needs things drilled
into her. It will only frustrate the both of you.
I could sit and discuss this subject all day but I have to run. I
hope this helps you a little until others come along.
Crystal
Susan Harrison
Crystal,
It does help - tons. Do you or did you do speech or OT services with your daughter? How do unschoolers feel about getting theraputic help? It seems to go against the philosophy but then again if your child is having major issues you have to do something!
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very recently.
Crystal <crystal.pina@...> wrote:
I hope this helps you a little until others come along.
Crystal
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It does help - tons. Do you or did you do speech or OT services with your daughter? How do unschoolers feel about getting theraputic help? It seems to go against the philosophy but then again if your child is having major issues you have to do something!
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very recently.
Crystal <crystal.pina@...> wrote:
I hope this helps you a little until others come along.
Crystal
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Naturally Organic
I love the idea of unschooling with her, but I am having a hard time
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world.>>
This is one I mull over frequently. I have a 6 yo with autism. He was non verbal until around the age of four. We have done work with biomeds, and have seen progress. However, his speech is still largely unintelligible. He needs speech and language therapy, among other things. A lot of things, before his diagnosis, were "just jordie". It's a challenge to continue to look at it that way, ever since the label was applied. OTOH, it was liberating to get that label, to find out that these things weren't MY fault (and yes, for some things I really did think it was!). He went to school for three months of last year. He will be going again next year, to an autism specific program in our district. Part of the reason is that I am at a loss. At a loss on how to help him. Hopefully as we continue biomed treatments, we will see more improvements, more self control, and less aggression. I too, am right along with you in questioning the drill drill drill aspect. His teacher from last year says
that the only way he may be able to learn his "basics" is by rote. Me, I'm wondering - what will happen if we sit back and wait two to three years, to see how he does on his own? OTOH, there is a really good chance with his lack of understanding of anything sequential that by rote may be the only way. Waiting will mean we have lost all that time. Coming from an unschooled and at the least, delayed academic perspective, this is all puzzling to me. To me, basics means tying your shoe, buttoning your own pants, and other daily living and social skills, not counting to ten and saying your ABC's. Thankfully, the TEACCH program is a combination of both.
Two side notes: he was completely undiagnosed and no interventions (save for the biomeds - I didn't know until later what I was doing was what a lot of parents of autism kids were doing) until the age of five and a half. Everyone remarked upon his entry to school at almost age six how well he did. I can only surmise that part of that is b/c he hasn't been forced since the age of 3 (like a lot of the kids in early intervention).
second: we were at the park yesterday, and it seems to me that some children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for. It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere and just live.
I realize that by admitting on a list like this that I may be seen as a not unschooler. I'm okay with that. Living with a child like Jordie is an extreme challenge. Sometimes I think, so what? Leave him alone, there's nothing "wrong"! Other times I want to yell at people that he can't help it, he doesn't know, he doesn't understand. So for the OP, I'm sorry. I have no answers. I only have more questions. I understand exactly how you feel.
Tanya
mom of five, all special and unique
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world.>>
This is one I mull over frequently. I have a 6 yo with autism. He was non verbal until around the age of four. We have done work with biomeds, and have seen progress. However, his speech is still largely unintelligible. He needs speech and language therapy, among other things. A lot of things, before his diagnosis, were "just jordie". It's a challenge to continue to look at it that way, ever since the label was applied. OTOH, it was liberating to get that label, to find out that these things weren't MY fault (and yes, for some things I really did think it was!). He went to school for three months of last year. He will be going again next year, to an autism specific program in our district. Part of the reason is that I am at a loss. At a loss on how to help him. Hopefully as we continue biomed treatments, we will see more improvements, more self control, and less aggression. I too, am right along with you in questioning the drill drill drill aspect. His teacher from last year says
that the only way he may be able to learn his "basics" is by rote. Me, I'm wondering - what will happen if we sit back and wait two to three years, to see how he does on his own? OTOH, there is a really good chance with his lack of understanding of anything sequential that by rote may be the only way. Waiting will mean we have lost all that time. Coming from an unschooled and at the least, delayed academic perspective, this is all puzzling to me. To me, basics means tying your shoe, buttoning your own pants, and other daily living and social skills, not counting to ten and saying your ABC's. Thankfully, the TEACCH program is a combination of both.
Two side notes: he was completely undiagnosed and no interventions (save for the biomeds - I didn't know until later what I was doing was what a lot of parents of autism kids were doing) until the age of five and a half. Everyone remarked upon his entry to school at almost age six how well he did. I can only surmise that part of that is b/c he hasn't been forced since the age of 3 (like a lot of the kids in early intervention).
second: we were at the park yesterday, and it seems to me that some children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for. It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere and just live.
I realize that by admitting on a list like this that I may be seen as a not unschooler. I'm okay with that. Living with a child like Jordie is an extreme challenge. Sometimes I think, so what? Leave him alone, there's nothing "wrong"! Other times I want to yell at people that he can't help it, he doesn't know, he doesn't understand. So for the OP, I'm sorry. I have no answers. I only have more questions. I understand exactly how you feel.
Tanya
mom of five, all special and unique
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2004 12:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
susanandgrace@... writes:
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she
would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very
recently.
<<<
Do you think that her new comfort is a result of the intense therapy? Or
maybe the result of being another year older and better able to handle things?
That could make a difference.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susanandgrace@... writes:
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she
would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very
recently.
<<<
Do you think that her new comfort is a result of the intense therapy? Or
maybe the result of being another year older and better able to handle things?
That could make a difference.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark Shields
Hi Susan and others,
I also have a child with autism, specifically PDD-NOS. He is 9 now (almost
10) and was dx at age 6. He was at home until the dx (no preschool), but
due to moderate communication and motor control issues had speech and OT
since the age of 3. After the dx we went through a couple of months not
knowing what to do. We also have an 11 yo daughter who has always
unschooled and we had planned to unschool him also. However, after the dx
I got really scared (the so-called professionals will do that to you) and
we put him in public school.
After three years of school we started unschooling again last summer. He
never did learn to read in school. Though they were working on it and said
he was starting to read. I could see at home it was a false assumption.
He also hated the reading practice we were supposed to be doing though he
has loved books and being read to since the age of 5. I really worried he
would come to hate books and reading if he stayed in school. He also still
can't count more than about 5 objects without assistance. They were making
him do math worksheets for homework and I was basically giving him the
answers. I knew that it was ridiculous to expect him to do these things
when he wasn't developmentally ready. Anyway, I hated the schedule, the
homework and the way he was so angry every afternoon.
Last summer we moved and decided to do some extensive traveling. He
learned more in those 5 months than in the whole previous three years and
also had no therapy at all during that time. What he did have was his
family around him at all times and tons of time riding in the RV to play
and talk with his sister. That was invaluable! His pretend play and
conversations skills really took off. Well, we are settled in a new home,
new state now and getting back into regular routines. I have started
therapy again, because as he talks more we see all sorts of grammar
mistakes. His new therapist is wonderful and supports homeschooling. She
is working on real life skills that he just doesn't seem to be getting even
with our help. She also pointed out things he can't do that we didn't even
realize. So I do think there is a place for therapy, though I think the
break from therapy was just as valuable.
I am not doing any reading practice or any schooly types of things with
him, but I read to him everyday. Ryan's obsessions mainly center around
mechanical things, trains, constructions vehicles, vaccuums, all home and
yard appliances. So we get lots of books from the library about these
types of things. We watch shows that interest him and I take him places
where they have cool mechanical things like the science museum and the
logging museum.
He does have some social deficits, but can start a conversation with
anyone, it's keeping it going that he has trouble with. He actually seems
to be more outgoing than my daughter at places like the park where he'll
play with almost anyone. However, he does not have a best friend, partly
due to the move but also because he has trouble developing deep
relationships. The other kids sometimes reject him due to a weird movement
or sentence. He does best with little kids actually.
So here we are at age 9 and 10 months: he is not a reader, he can't do any
math at all, he doesn't understand the value of money, he can write only
his name. It can be really scary! I am trying to keep my trust in him and
keep reminding myself that lots of unschooled kids can't read at age 10. I
feel that being able to read is something he is capable of and will take a
few more years. I can't wait til it happens so I can write an encouraging
article about it! The math seems more worrisome to me actually, though
I've read that math can be a real challenge for many autistic kids. He
has just started to get an allowance and I am hoping this will help him
learn about money and spending.
To Tanya who has the 6 year old with autism. Ryan sounds similar to your
son. He didn't have any words until after age 3 and then only a few until
he was at least 4. He was very unintelligible for years. He has made tons
of progress in the last few years with speech, self control and dealing
with frustration/aggression. Things will get better.
Kristin
I also have a child with autism, specifically PDD-NOS. He is 9 now (almost
10) and was dx at age 6. He was at home until the dx (no preschool), but
due to moderate communication and motor control issues had speech and OT
since the age of 3. After the dx we went through a couple of months not
knowing what to do. We also have an 11 yo daughter who has always
unschooled and we had planned to unschool him also. However, after the dx
I got really scared (the so-called professionals will do that to you) and
we put him in public school.
After three years of school we started unschooling again last summer. He
never did learn to read in school. Though they were working on it and said
he was starting to read. I could see at home it was a false assumption.
He also hated the reading practice we were supposed to be doing though he
has loved books and being read to since the age of 5. I really worried he
would come to hate books and reading if he stayed in school. He also still
can't count more than about 5 objects without assistance. They were making
him do math worksheets for homework and I was basically giving him the
answers. I knew that it was ridiculous to expect him to do these things
when he wasn't developmentally ready. Anyway, I hated the schedule, the
homework and the way he was so angry every afternoon.
Last summer we moved and decided to do some extensive traveling. He
learned more in those 5 months than in the whole previous three years and
also had no therapy at all during that time. What he did have was his
family around him at all times and tons of time riding in the RV to play
and talk with his sister. That was invaluable! His pretend play and
conversations skills really took off. Well, we are settled in a new home,
new state now and getting back into regular routines. I have started
therapy again, because as he talks more we see all sorts of grammar
mistakes. His new therapist is wonderful and supports homeschooling. She
is working on real life skills that he just doesn't seem to be getting even
with our help. She also pointed out things he can't do that we didn't even
realize. So I do think there is a place for therapy, though I think the
break from therapy was just as valuable.
I am not doing any reading practice or any schooly types of things with
him, but I read to him everyday. Ryan's obsessions mainly center around
mechanical things, trains, constructions vehicles, vaccuums, all home and
yard appliances. So we get lots of books from the library about these
types of things. We watch shows that interest him and I take him places
where they have cool mechanical things like the science museum and the
logging museum.
He does have some social deficits, but can start a conversation with
anyone, it's keeping it going that he has trouble with. He actually seems
to be more outgoing than my daughter at places like the park where he'll
play with almost anyone. However, he does not have a best friend, partly
due to the move but also because he has trouble developing deep
relationships. The other kids sometimes reject him due to a weird movement
or sentence. He does best with little kids actually.
So here we are at age 9 and 10 months: he is not a reader, he can't do any
math at all, he doesn't understand the value of money, he can write only
his name. It can be really scary! I am trying to keep my trust in him and
keep reminding myself that lots of unschooled kids can't read at age 10. I
feel that being able to read is something he is capable of and will take a
few more years. I can't wait til it happens so I can write an encouraging
article about it! The math seems more worrisome to me actually, though
I've read that math can be a real challenge for many autistic kids. He
has just started to get an allowance and I am hoping this will help him
learn about money and spending.
To Tanya who has the 6 year old with autism. Ryan sounds similar to your
son. He didn't have any words until after age 3 and then only a few until
he was at least 4. He was very unintelligible for years. He has made tons
of progress in the last few years with speech, self control and dealing
with frustration/aggression. Things will get better.
Kristin
Ren Allen
"So here we are at age 9 and 10 months: he is not a reader"
I have a 10 y.o. (11 in August) that is a very beginning reader
without a hint of autism! So not reading at 9 or 10 isn't
problematic, except in school.
Don't let that scare you a bit.:)
I've read enough about kids with special challenges, like autism,
that thrive in an unschooling environment. I think the best thing a
parent can do, is learn as much as they can about their child's
challenges and figure out how to best help that child navigate life
in their own way. Just like we'd do with any child, it just takes
more patience and research with those bigger challenges.
Rote learning produces nothing but frustration when it's forced...I
don't believe those children are truly gaining in the long run by
having that method crammed down their throats.
If they're never great readers, that's OK! I think like any child,
we need to focus on strengths and let them be who they are. Forcing
the basics is not going to help them be more functional adults in
the long run.
I'm assuming all of you have read Anne Ohman's article "I Am What I
Am" ??
Ren
I have a 10 y.o. (11 in August) that is a very beginning reader
without a hint of autism! So not reading at 9 or 10 isn't
problematic, except in school.
Don't let that scare you a bit.:)
I've read enough about kids with special challenges, like autism,
that thrive in an unschooling environment. I think the best thing a
parent can do, is learn as much as they can about their child's
challenges and figure out how to best help that child navigate life
in their own way. Just like we'd do with any child, it just takes
more patience and research with those bigger challenges.
Rote learning produces nothing but frustration when it's forced...I
don't believe those children are truly gaining in the long run by
having that method crammed down their throats.
If they're never great readers, that's OK! I think like any child,
we need to focus on strengths and let them be who they are. Forcing
the basics is not going to help them be more functional adults in
the long run.
I'm assuming all of you have read Anne Ohman's article "I Am What I
Am" ??
Ren
kulahawaii
I just wanted to mention that there is a yahoo group called
[email protected]. Here is the blurb:
AS You Like It is a secular list for parents who homeschool, or who
are thinking about homeschooling, children with Aspergers Syndrome,
HFA, or PDD.
There are several unschoolers on the list and they would welcome any
questions you have also.
Kristin
[email protected]. Here is the blurb:
AS You Like It is a secular list for parents who homeschool, or who
are thinking about homeschooling, children with Aspergers Syndrome,
HFA, or PDD.
There are several unschoolers on the list and they would welcome any
questions you have also.
Kristin
Mark Shields
Yes, Ren I have read Anne's writings. I love them, but like Susan I have
felt they are not as helpful (for me) because her son doesn't have the
learning challenges that Ryan has. For instance, you know the homeschool
saying (something like this), "children learn to talk without instruction,
it's the same for everything else." Well, my son has needed extensive
instruction just to be intelligible and it's still going on. That's one
thing that makes it scarier. I am truly not so worried about the reading,
I guess that's what I was trying to emphasize. I do wish he could do some
really basic arithmetic simply because it would be easier to reason with
him. He just can't understand why, when he has $5.00 in his pocket he
can't buy the $50.00 toy. It's exhausting to do any shopping with him so I
tend to avoid taking him. When he does come to the store with me,
regardless of the store he wants to buy everything. So there is a real
reason to want him to have a basic understanding of math. Also, while I
don't expect him to be reading War and Peace some day, I do hope that he
can read the things that make him happy because he absolutely loves books.
Like me and his sister he can spend hours in a bookstore just browsing!
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen [SMTP:starsuncloud@...]
"So here we are at age 9 and 10 months: he is not a reader"
I have a 10 y.o. (11 in August) that is a very beginning reader
without a hint of autism! So not reading at 9 or 10 isn't
problematic, except in school.
Don't let that scare you a bit.:)
I've read enough about kids with special challenges, like autism,
that thrive in an unschooling environment. I think the best thing a
parent can do, is learn as much as they can about their child's
challenges and figure out how to best help that child navigate life
in their own way. Just like we'd do with any child, it just takes
more patience and research with those bigger challenges.
Rote learning produces nothing but frustration when it's forced...I
don't believe those children are truly gaining in the long run by
having that method crammed down their throats.
If they're never great readers, that's OK! I think like any child,
we need to focus on strengths and let them be who they are. Forcing
the basics is not going to help them be more functional adults in
the long run.
I'm assuming all of you have read Anne Ohman's article "I Am What I
Am" ??
Ren
felt they are not as helpful (for me) because her son doesn't have the
learning challenges that Ryan has. For instance, you know the homeschool
saying (something like this), "children learn to talk without instruction,
it's the same for everything else." Well, my son has needed extensive
instruction just to be intelligible and it's still going on. That's one
thing that makes it scarier. I am truly not so worried about the reading,
I guess that's what I was trying to emphasize. I do wish he could do some
really basic arithmetic simply because it would be easier to reason with
him. He just can't understand why, when he has $5.00 in his pocket he
can't buy the $50.00 toy. It's exhausting to do any shopping with him so I
tend to avoid taking him. When he does come to the store with me,
regardless of the store he wants to buy everything. So there is a real
reason to want him to have a basic understanding of math. Also, while I
don't expect him to be reading War and Peace some day, I do hope that he
can read the things that make him happy because he absolutely loves books.
Like me and his sister he can spend hours in a bookstore just browsing!
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen [SMTP:starsuncloud@...]
"So here we are at age 9 and 10 months: he is not a reader"
I have a 10 y.o. (11 in August) that is a very beginning reader
without a hint of autism! So not reading at 9 or 10 isn't
problematic, except in school.
Don't let that scare you a bit.:)
I've read enough about kids with special challenges, like autism,
that thrive in an unschooling environment. I think the best thing a
parent can do, is learn as much as they can about their child's
challenges and figure out how to best help that child navigate life
in their own way. Just like we'd do with any child, it just takes
more patience and research with those bigger challenges.
Rote learning produces nothing but frustration when it's forced...I
don't believe those children are truly gaining in the long run by
having that method crammed down their throats.
If they're never great readers, that's OK! I think like any child,
we need to focus on strengths and let them be who they are. Forcing
the basics is not going to help them be more functional adults in
the long run.
I'm assuming all of you have read Anne Ohman's article "I Am What I
Am" ??
Ren
Susan Harrison
Kelly,
I think that it might be a combination of both, but after a sensory OT session she is so relaxed, you can see it on her face and hear it in her voice. I think of it as someone getting a massage or something - it is very comforting to her and she loves it. She is normally kind of tense. One thing I can say is that she had her fingers in her ears consistently from age 2 to 5. We did one session of auditory therapy and THAT AFTERNOON she took her fingers out of her ears and swam and rode her bike for the first time and hasn't put them in since. It was a pretty obvious connection that time.
I've learned alot from the OT about making sure she gets a steady diet of swinging, running, climbing, crunchy foods, slimy toys, etc. that she would not normally go for and I wouldn't have pushed it otherwise.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/15/2004 12:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
susanandgrace@... writes:
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she
would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very
recently.
<<<
Do you think that her new comfort is a result of the intense therapy? Or
maybe the result of being another year older and better able to handle things?
That could make a difference.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think that it might be a combination of both, but after a sensory OT session she is so relaxed, you can see it on her face and hear it in her voice. I think of it as someone getting a massage or something - it is very comforting to her and she loves it. She is normally kind of tense. One thing I can say is that she had her fingers in her ears consistently from age 2 to 5. We did one session of auditory therapy and THAT AFTERNOON she took her fingers out of her ears and swam and rode her bike for the first time and hasn't put them in since. It was a pretty obvious connection that time.
I've learned alot from the OT about making sure she gets a steady diet of swinging, running, climbing, crunchy foods, slimy toys, etc. that she would not normally go for and I wouldn't have pushed it otherwise.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/15/2004 12:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
susanandgrace@... writes:
Grace had so many sensory issues that we felt we had to do something - she
would hardly touch anything! She wasn't comfortable in her own skin until very
recently.
<<<
Do you think that her new comfort is a result of the intense therapy? Or
maybe the result of being another year older and better able to handle things?
That could make a difference.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Harrison
Tanya,
We are having very similar struggles and my heart goes out to you. I think the fact that we are both here on this unschooling site is a sign that we honor our children and are looking for the best for them. I love that the members here are always accepting of their children and where they are. I want to get there too! Susan
Naturally Organic <naturallyorganic@...> wrote:
I love the idea of unschooling with her, but I am having a hard time
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world.>>
This is one I mull over frequently. I have a 6 yo with autism. He was non verbal until around the age of four. We have done work with biomeds, and have seen progress. However, his speech is still largely unintelligible. He needs speech and language therapy, among other things. A lot of things, before his diagnosis, were "just jordie". It's a challenge to continue to look at it that way, ever since the label was applied. OTOH, it was liberating to get that label, to find out that these things weren't MY fault (and yes, for some things I really did think it was!). He went to school for three months of last year. He will be going again next year, to an autism specific program in our district. Part of the reason is that I am at a loss. At a loss on how to help him. Hopefully as we continue biomed treatments, we will see more improvements, more self control, and less aggression. I too, am right along with you in questioning the drill drill drill aspect. His teacher from last year says
that the only way he may be able to learn his "basics" is by rote. Me, I'm wondering - what will happen if we sit back and wait two to three years, to see how he does on his own? OTOH, there is a really good chance with his lack of understanding of anything sequential that by rote may be the only way. Waiting will mean we have lost all that time. Coming from an unschooled and at the least, delayed academic perspective, this is all puzzling to me. To me, basics means tying your shoe, buttoning your own pants, and other daily living and social skills, not counting to ten and saying your ABC's. Thankfully, the TEACCH program is a combination of both.
Two side notes: he was completely undiagnosed and no interventions (save for the biomeds - I didn't know until later what I was doing was what a lot of parents of autism kids were doing) until the age of five and a half. Everyone remarked upon his entry to school at almost age six how well he did. I can only surmise that part of that is b/c he hasn't been forced since the age of 3 (like a lot of the kids in early intervention).
second: we were at the park yesterday, and it seems to me that some children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for. It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere and just live.
I realize that by admitting on a list like this that I may be seen as a not unschooler. I'm okay with that. Living with a child like Jordie is an extreme challenge. Sometimes I think, so what? Leave him alone, there's nothing "wrong"! Other times I want to yell at people that he can't help it, he doesn't know, he doesn't understand. So for the OP, I'm sorry. I have no answers. I only have more questions. I understand exactly how you feel.
Tanya
mom of five, all special and unique
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We are having very similar struggles and my heart goes out to you. I think the fact that we are both here on this unschooling site is a sign that we honor our children and are looking for the best for them. I love that the members here are always accepting of their children and where they are. I want to get there too! Susan
Naturally Organic <naturallyorganic@...> wrote:
I love the idea of unschooling with her, but I am having a hard time
letting go of the idea that I need to insist that she learn certain
things at certain times. When you have a child who has aspergers
the "professionals" really try to drum it in to you that you need to
drill, drill, drill and impose yourself on your child and rip them
out of their isolated world.>>
This is one I mull over frequently. I have a 6 yo with autism. He was non verbal until around the age of four. We have done work with biomeds, and have seen progress. However, his speech is still largely unintelligible. He needs speech and language therapy, among other things. A lot of things, before his diagnosis, were "just jordie". It's a challenge to continue to look at it that way, ever since the label was applied. OTOH, it was liberating to get that label, to find out that these things weren't MY fault (and yes, for some things I really did think it was!). He went to school for three months of last year. He will be going again next year, to an autism specific program in our district. Part of the reason is that I am at a loss. At a loss on how to help him. Hopefully as we continue biomed treatments, we will see more improvements, more self control, and less aggression. I too, am right along with you in questioning the drill drill drill aspect. His teacher from last year says
that the only way he may be able to learn his "basics" is by rote. Me, I'm wondering - what will happen if we sit back and wait two to three years, to see how he does on his own? OTOH, there is a really good chance with his lack of understanding of anything sequential that by rote may be the only way. Waiting will mean we have lost all that time. Coming from an unschooled and at the least, delayed academic perspective, this is all puzzling to me. To me, basics means tying your shoe, buttoning your own pants, and other daily living and social skills, not counting to ten and saying your ABC's. Thankfully, the TEACCH program is a combination of both.
Two side notes: he was completely undiagnosed and no interventions (save for the biomeds - I didn't know until later what I was doing was what a lot of parents of autism kids were doing) until the age of five and a half. Everyone remarked upon his entry to school at almost age six how well he did. I can only surmise that part of that is b/c he hasn't been forced since the age of 3 (like a lot of the kids in early intervention).
second: we were at the park yesterday, and it seems to me that some children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for. It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere and just live.
I realize that by admitting on a list like this that I may be seen as a not unschooler. I'm okay with that. Living with a child like Jordie is an extreme challenge. Sometimes I think, so what? Leave him alone, there's nothing "wrong"! Other times I want to yell at people that he can't help it, he doesn't know, he doesn't understand. So for the OP, I'm sorry. I have no answers. I only have more questions. I understand exactly how you feel.
Tanya
mom of five, all special and unique
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "Susan"
<susanandgrace@y...> wrote:
My son (7) doesn't have any spectrum issues, but had severe SDI
(sensory integration dysfunction) and the attendant motor delays and
visual delays. He also had severe food allergies, and a few other
issues. He has gone through several courses of therapy over the
years - OT for the SDI and Visual Therapy, as well as NAET for the
allergies. Since we've always known we wanted to usnchool, it has
been hard at times to reconcile the unschooling philosophy with the
ability to help my child through things that do come naturally to
most kids. Most kids can dress themselves. Most kids eyes work
together. Most kids can cross their hands over the center line of
their body when they are writing or drawing. They don't cover their
ears or worry about things brushing their skin. I just had yet
another sunscreen problem today on a homeschool group bike ride.
We've tried everything over the years to deal with the sun issue -
for a kid who doesn't like clothes or sunscreen touching their skin,
how do you go outdoors in the summer? Things have improved greatly
over the years and with the therapy, but there are still daily issues.
I've come to this conclusion: as unschoolers, we try as best we can
to help our kids to learn/do the things they want to do. That might
mean telling them how to spell a word, looking up something on the
internet, driving them to the library, etc. For us, the therapies he
has gone through have helped him do things ("normal" things) that he
has wanted to do - things like dress himself, see a movie in a
theatre, or draw something he wants to draw. Just helping him remove
the roadblocks in his life is, I think, still compatible with
unschooling, although there are those who will dismiss any therapy
as "unneeded" and as opposed to unschooling. Also, we look for
therapies that are compatible with our unschooling lifestyle, and
therapists who will not start pushing school agendas. So far, it has
worked out okay.
Best of luck to you. There is no easy road when parenting a kid with
challenging issues, but I think unschooling is a real gift for these
kids who often struggle so hard, both academically and socially if
they are in schools. Just having the time to progress in their own
way and pace, and the time with patient and loving parents is, IMHO,
a godsend.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<susanandgrace@y...> wrote:
> I guess what I am asking is this: is there anyone on this list thatHi Susan,
> has a child with significant learning/developmental issues that is
> unschooling? I am looking for a concrete experience: this is how it
> went for us..... As I said, I loved Annie's writings, but they are
> vague in her child's challenges and how he is working with
> unschooling. Sorry to sound desperate, but I am, a little. Thanks.
>
> Susan
My son (7) doesn't have any spectrum issues, but had severe SDI
(sensory integration dysfunction) and the attendant motor delays and
visual delays. He also had severe food allergies, and a few other
issues. He has gone through several courses of therapy over the
years - OT for the SDI and Visual Therapy, as well as NAET for the
allergies. Since we've always known we wanted to usnchool, it has
been hard at times to reconcile the unschooling philosophy with the
ability to help my child through things that do come naturally to
most kids. Most kids can dress themselves. Most kids eyes work
together. Most kids can cross their hands over the center line of
their body when they are writing or drawing. They don't cover their
ears or worry about things brushing their skin. I just had yet
another sunscreen problem today on a homeschool group bike ride.
We've tried everything over the years to deal with the sun issue -
for a kid who doesn't like clothes or sunscreen touching their skin,
how do you go outdoors in the summer? Things have improved greatly
over the years and with the therapy, but there are still daily issues.
I've come to this conclusion: as unschoolers, we try as best we can
to help our kids to learn/do the things they want to do. That might
mean telling them how to spell a word, looking up something on the
internet, driving them to the library, etc. For us, the therapies he
has gone through have helped him do things ("normal" things) that he
has wanted to do - things like dress himself, see a movie in a
theatre, or draw something he wants to draw. Just helping him remove
the roadblocks in his life is, I think, still compatible with
unschooling, although there are those who will dismiss any therapy
as "unneeded" and as opposed to unschooling. Also, we look for
therapies that are compatible with our unschooling lifestyle, and
therapists who will not start pushing school agendas. So far, it has
worked out okay.
Best of luck to you. There is no easy road when parenting a kid with
challenging issues, but I think unschooling is a real gift for these
kids who often struggle so hard, both academically and socially if
they are in schools. Just having the time to progress in their own
way and pace, and the time with patient and loving parents is, IMHO,
a godsend.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Robyn Coburn
<<<second: we were at the park yesterday, and it seems to me that some
children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat
them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody
and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began
taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am
appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for.
It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere
and just live. >>>
This is outrageous. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens more than it
should, when the Lord of the Flies mentality takes over a group of kids -
especially when the parents are usually over-controlling and then turn away
for some reason.
My suggestion to you is to find a local inclusive homeschool support group
that has park days, or start one. My experience of the kids in my local
group is much greater acceptance of difference and a fluidity in who is
playing with whom each week, as well as some long term games. What happens
in our group is that the parents maintain an awareness of what is happening
without constantly bossing and mediating the kids' interactions, but are
right there to address any conflicts. Most of the time the children come up
and express that they need help with some accident or conflict of goals.
BTW in our group we rotate through several parks each month, and
deliberately choose parks that are not frequented by hordes of nannies or
day camps in summer. This is to avoid crowds on the equipment, and to allow
our children to enhance their relationships with each other rather than
random strangers. In Jayn's case, we have been going to the main park day
less regularly, because that latter function especially is being fulfilled
by our attendance at an informal park day after dance class, that is
attended by nearly all her homeschooler friends.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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children can really pick out the ones that "aren't like them", and treat
them accordingly. Jordie's idea of making friends is to walk up to somebody
and say Hi. See my toy? When he did this yesterday, several young boys began
taunting him, and then poking him and one actually slapped him. I was/am
appalled and disheartened that I have yet another thing to watch out for.
It's enough to make a gal want to buy five acres in the middle of nowhere
and just live. >>>
This is outrageous. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens more than it
should, when the Lord of the Flies mentality takes over a group of kids -
especially when the parents are usually over-controlling and then turn away
for some reason.
My suggestion to you is to find a local inclusive homeschool support group
that has park days, or start one. My experience of the kids in my local
group is much greater acceptance of difference and a fluidity in who is
playing with whom each week, as well as some long term games. What happens
in our group is that the parents maintain an awareness of what is happening
without constantly bossing and mediating the kids' interactions, but are
right there to address any conflicts. Most of the time the children come up
and express that they need help with some accident or conflict of goals.
BTW in our group we rotate through several parks each month, and
deliberately choose parks that are not frequented by hordes of nannies or
day camps in summer. This is to avoid crowds on the equipment, and to allow
our children to enhance their relationships with each other rather than
random strangers. In Jayn's case, we have been going to the main park day
less regularly, because that latter function especially is being fulfilled
by our attendance at an informal park day after dance class, that is
attended by nearly all her homeschooler friends.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[email protected]
In a message dated 7/15/2004 6:03:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
AnneO is great, isn't she? I've been fighting with people not to
change my daughter for so long and AnneO comes along and just says
in a calm and soothing voice that your children should be honored
for who they are. When she says that, who could ever want their
children to change?
*******************************
Anne IS fabulous, and she's even more fabulous in person! Come to the Live
and Learn Unschooling Conference and you can hear her speak in person (and ask
all kinds of questions in person!).
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
AnneO is great, isn't she? I've been fighting with people not to
change my daughter for so long and AnneO comes along and just says
in a calm and soothing voice that your children should be honored
for who they are. When she says that, who could ever want their
children to change?
*******************************
Anne IS fabulous, and she's even more fabulous in person! Come to the Live
and Learn Unschooling Conference and you can hear her speak in person (and ask
all kinds of questions in person!).
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Naturally Organic
My suggestion to you is to find a local inclusive homeschool support
group
that has park days, or start one.>>
That's where we were. Park day. not really super organized, but a friend knows a friend who also has a friend who homeschool (I do mean homeschool lol). There was another group there that day as well, a church mom and me group. I have no idea of those kids were part of that group or not. I just felt like, well, damn. I don't have enough eyes for all of this!!
Tanya
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
group
that has park days, or start one.>>
That's where we were. Park day. not really super organized, but a friend knows a friend who also has a friend who homeschool (I do mean homeschool lol). There was another group there that day as well, a church mom and me group. I have no idea of those kids were part of that group or not. I just felt like, well, damn. I don't have enough eyes for all of this!!
Tanya
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]