Julie v.

Our 4 year old son, as of late, has been very creative in coming up with solutions to our
everyday conflicts, which I think is wonderful, we try to be proactive if there is a conflict in
the house and say "how do you think we can solve this?", and we all try to come up with
solutions. I think I'm learning more from him than vice versa.

Anyway my question has to do with when we are together with other families and the other
family is having a "conflict", my son will step in and offer up solutions for the other family,
and I have noticed that the mother's are getting this rather annoyed look on their faces,
like perhaps he is interferring. On one occasion I thought my son was offering up some
rather doable solutions, to which the other mother just kept telling him how his solution
couldn't work and why. On another occasion the mother was taken aback by his
assertiveness and told him "this is something your mother & I need to discuss". On yet
another occasion, I could empathize with the mother, as they were getting ready to leave
our home and her son did not want to leave, so my son kept offering up solutions for the
little boy: "maybe xxx can sleep over", "maybe you can go home do what you need to do
and then come back and get xxx". In the latter instance I could see the other mother's
plight in that she was trying to get her son out the door, and my son was perhaps
"prolonging" the time they spent by offering up solutions that the other boy could hear.

I don't want to stifle my son and his process of finding solutions to conflicts, as I am
amazed at what he comes up with sometimes. What is your opinions on these situations
and is there something my son & I could be doing instead in these situations to help?

Thanks,

Julie

Lisa Blocker

UH UH I know this one!!!! Newbie chiming in here ... new to the list not to homeschooling or unschooling.
My kids have ALWAYS done this from the time they could speak... not so much offering it to other folks but as far as our conflicts are concerned. One time in particular was hilarious when my then 8 yr old suggested that Grandpa maybe needed to take a walk and find his calm when he was frustrated with the loss of his favorite binoculars by a friend who wasn't careful with the possessions of others!! At any rate we have had a few situations over the years when they have offered suggestions to other families that weren't well received. I have tried to remind them that as kind as it was to help that sometimes other families prefer to talk out their own solutions. Usually later I explain that we should respect other's rights to find what works for them and how proud I am of their kindness in offering help. I had a mother once SCREAM at my then 7 yr old to "mind her own damn business" when she suggested that the other mother's child was just feeling rushed (in her
view which I would have to agree with!) and perhaps if she could give her just 5 minutes to be ready to leave. Given that situation we felt it was best to explain to our kids how some folks just don't like to be helped in that way and some folks don't respect children in the same way we do in our home. I find that children that are parented in kind, compassionate, respectful ways tend to always want to help everyone... they are the champions of the underdog and the one that is going to defend all downtrodden! I don't suppose that's a bad thing at all. I consider it a victory that my parents realize my point now about respecting children as people with full rights to freedom rather than extensions of the parent and little people who need to be controlled. My mother in particular has been in my home many times when my circle of friends are here and the kids are playing... she is amazed at how 10-20 kids of all ages can play and hang out and rarely have a
conflict and at how gentle the parents are with their children. In her day it just wasn't a concept that many embraced. I will have to say that my parents must have embraced it to some extent because I never felt confined (other than in school) and I always knew that if I disagreed with their rules or whatever I was free to discuss why and my opinion was respected (I didn't always get my way but I always felt heard!) Anyway I am so glad to find this list (THanks Lena!) and glad to spend more time with Ren whom I meet at last fall's FLT gathering here in NC (My two oldest were the ones that sat intently watching for two days while you did makeup ...Sarah 16 and Anna 13)
Cheers,
Lisa B






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kristenhendricks55

I would probably tell him in the situation about the mom trying to
ge tout the door... if he had said those ideas in front of the other
child and the mom was getting annoyed.. maybe suggest "why dont we
talk about that together after they leave and they can talk about it
together and maybe we can all work something out" even if that means
he's going to come back on another day to play. That way th eother
child can talk to his mom about what he wants and your child can
talk to you, both in private so that she can decide whats best for
her son and you can talk to your son about what you should do.

--- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@...>
wrote:
>
> Our 4 year old son, as of late, has been very creative in coming
up with solutions to our
> everyday conflicts, which I think is wonderful, we try to be
proactive if there is a conflict in
> the house and say "how do you think we can solve this?", and we
all try to come up with
> solutions. I think I'm learning more from him than vice versa.
>
> Anyway my question has to do with when we are together with other
families and the other
> family is having a "conflict", my son will step in and offer up
solutions for the other family,
> and I have noticed that the mother's are getting this rather
annoyed look on their faces,
> like perhaps he is interferring. On one occasion I thought my son
was offering up some
> rather doable solutions, to which the other mother just kept
telling him how his solution
> couldn't work and why. On another occasion the mother was taken
aback by his
> assertiveness and told him "this is something your mother & I need
to discuss". On yet
> another occasion, I could empathize with the mother, as they were
getting ready to leave
> our home and her son did not want to leave, so my son kept
offering up solutions for the
> little boy: "maybe xxx can sleep over", "maybe you can go home do
what you need to do
> and then come back and get xxx". In the latter instance I could
see the other mother's
> plight in that she was trying to get her son out the door, and my
son was perhaps
> "prolonging" the time they spent by offering up solutions that the
other boy could hear.
>
> I don't want to stifle my son and his process of finding solutions
to conflicts, as I am
> amazed at what he comes up with sometimes. What is your opinions
on these situations
> and is there something my son & I could be doing instead in these
situations to help?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Julie
>

Schuyler

Simon's done things like that on occasion, largely, I suppose because I do
those things when thinking through what they want versus what needs to
happen. Its a gift that he is offering. At the moment he is trying to
negotiate with a friend's father so that his friend can have a cat.

What if you would have offered, when the friend wanted to stay and the mom
wanted him to go, to bring the friend back later? Could you have stepped in
and upped the pressure on the friend's mom to negotiate something else. I
think what your son is doing is a powerful thing, he's saying that there
aren't only two choices in any given moment and that negotiation is a good
thing. If it was Simon I would explain why I thought the other parent was
saying no, after the incident, so like with the cat my belief is that the
parents don't want pets of any kind and that they will come up with lots of
reasons, when really it is just that they don't want to find a way to say
yes. Maybe help your son to see that some moms don't want to look for
solutions outside of what they've already said must happen. But don't tell
him that it isn't worth trying to help find other solutions. Finding ways
out of the box is a brilliant thing, I would never tell him to stop doing
that.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


>
> Anyway my question has to do with when we are together with other families
> and the other
> family is having a "conflict", my son will step in and offer up solutions
> for the other family,
> and I have noticed that the mother's are getting this rather annoyed look
> on their faces,
> like perhaps he is interferring. On one occasion I thought my son was
> offering up some
> rather doable solutions, to which the other mother just kept telling him
> how his solution
> couldn't work and why. On another occasion the mother was taken aback by
> his
> assertiveness and told him "this is something your mother & I need to
> discuss". On yet
> another occasion, I could empathize with the mother, as they were getting
> ready to leave
> our home and her son did not want to leave, so my son kept offering up
> solutions for the
> little boy: "maybe xxx can sleep over", "maybe you can go home do what
> you need to do
> and then come back and get xxx". In the latter instance I could see the
> other mother's
> plight in that she was trying to get her son out the door, and my son was
> perhaps
> "prolonging" the time they spent by offering up solutions that the other
> boy could hear.

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Schuyler"
<s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>> I would explain why I thought the other parent was
> saying no, after the incident, so like with the cat my belief is
that the
> parents don't want pets of any kind and that they will come up
with lots of
> reasons, when really it is just that they don't want to find a way
to say
> yes.

Okay, related, but different subject:

Yesterday a neighbor came over and agreed to jump on the trampoline
with Mo, but only for about ten minutes, since she had to go to
work. I hung out to help Mo transition when it was time for her to
leave. Unfortunately, the neighbor's response when Mo wanted her to
stay longer was to announce "If you are going to whine, I might not
want to come back!" I'm terrible in moments like this, I tend to
freeze up and not really know what to say! I'm working on this, but
I could use some ideas, so I'm not fumbling around for words "in the
moment".

I did offer to jump with Mo for awhile, she repeated that she wanted
Diane (the neighbor) to jump with her. At this point Diane
interjected "If you want me to come back later you need to stop
whining" to which Mo replied "I want you to come back Soon". "Well,
no more whining, then!"

Okay, clearly I need to talk with this lady separately, to try to
diffuse this before it can happen again. She often gives the
impression that she thinks it necessary to "teach lessons" to Morgan.

By the time it occurred to me to interject something like "I think
she's saying she'd Like to come back soon", the neighbor had made a
break for it.

I tried to explain to Mo, once she had gone, that I thought she
was "trying to say yes" about coming back "soon" but didn't know
how. At that point Morgan, who had calmed down, said to me "Well,
there are three different ways to say yes: yes, yeah and si - "si"
is Spanish." I commented that there were even more ways to say yes
in other languages and that was sort of the end of the drama.

So, ideas of what to say specifically to the neighbor, and things to
suggest during these kinds of transitions? It was soooooo
frustrating!

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Nance Confer

Finding ways out of the box is a brilliant thing, I would never tell him to stop doing that.

Schuyler

**************
Well, yes, to a point. But then there's the rest of what the Mom has going on that day that not everyone else in the room -- children and adults -- necessarily knows about and she may not want to share or take the time to discuss. . .

I'd explain to my child -- and have -- that other people have plans too and we can't always get what we want every time. Sometimes, of course, we can. But putting pressure and guilt on the other Mom . . . that's not cricket either.

All of this is tricky, imo, and needs to be handled on a case by case basis. Not to discourage thinking outside of the box but to help my child realize that the other people have things going on too that we might not know about and have no right to pry about. . . both of these things need to happen.

Sometimes the result is "you have no pajamas or toothbrush or anything else with you because we hadn't planned on having a sleepover but what the heck, we've got nothing else planned and a sleepover would be fine." Other times the answer is, "not today, other things need to happen" or just "not today, Mom needs a break." All of these are reasonable answers, depending. Helping my child to realize that the answer for all concerned is not ALWAYS the first one and everyone needs to check with everyone before assuming anything's a go, is part of figuring all of this out too.

Around here anyway. :)

Nance




Cocking A Snook
A Blog for Thinking Parents
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie v.

I sent a post earlier, but it never showed up?

Anyway i wanted to thank everyone for their advice on this subject. I definitely don't want
to discourage him in the way he is coming up with solutions, I've learned a lot from him
and am starting to see that there is more than a couple of choices in any situation. I like
the idea of suggesting to him about talking to me in private about his ideas, if the mom
doesn't seem very receptive.

The idea of offering to bring the child home later was also a good one, in this situation it
wouldn't have worked, as they live approx. 40 minutes away (but their moving about 1
block away this weekend). That could be something that could be done in the future or
with other friends also.

Julie






--- In [email protected], "Schuyler" <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> Simon's done things like that on occasion, largely, I suppose because I do
> those things when thinking through what they want versus what needs to
> happen. Its a gift that he is offering. At the moment he is trying to
> negotiate with a friend's father so that his friend can have a cat.
>
> What if you would have offered, when the friend wanted to stay and the mom
> wanted him to go, to bring the friend back later? Could you have stepped in
> and upped the pressure on the friend's mom to negotiate something else. I
> think what your son is doing is a powerful thing, he's saying that there
> aren't only two choices in any given moment and that negotiation is a good
> thing. If it was Simon I would explain why I thought the other parent was
> saying no, after the incident, so like with the cat my belief is that the
> parents don't want pets of any kind and that they will come up with lots of
> reasons, when really it is just that they don't want to find a way to say
> yes. Maybe help your son to see that some moms don't want to look for
> solutions outside of what they've already said must happen. But don't tell
> him that it isn't worth trying to help find other solutions. Finding ways
> out of the box is a brilliant thing, I would never tell him to stop doing
> that.
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
>
>

Julie v.

I wonder if you could say what you did say "I think she's saying that she does want to
come back", in front of the other lady? It's not confrontational, and in that regard you can
show this woman's true intent, which was to come back. By you not mentioning the
"whining", it can also show this lady that the "whining" isn't an issue for you guys, only
her.

Or you could point out to Mo the way she is sounding to this lady and ask her if she's
willing to change her voice? If she's not, let her know that it's o.k. if she's comfortable
with the way she sounds, but that it looks like it's making "the neighbor" uncomfortable?
That way the focus is on the nieghbor's feelings and not the way Mo is sounding?

Just some thoughts,

Julie








--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Schuyler"
> <s.waynforth@> wrote:
> >> I would explain why I thought the other parent was
> > saying no, after the incident, so like with the cat my belief is
> that the
> > parents don't want pets of any kind and that they will come up
> with lots of
> > reasons, when really it is just that they don't want to find a way
> to say
> > yes.
>
> Okay, related, but different subject:
>
> Yesterday a neighbor came over and agreed to jump on the trampoline
> with Mo, but only for about ten minutes, since she had to go to
> work. I hung out to help Mo transition when it was time for her to
> leave. Unfortunately, the neighbor's response when Mo wanted her to
> stay longer was to announce "If you are going to whine, I might not
> want to come back!" I'm terrible in moments like this, I tend to
> freeze up and not really know what to say! I'm working on this, but
> I could use some ideas, so I'm not fumbling around for words "in the
> moment".
>
> I did offer to jump with Mo for awhile, she repeated that she wanted
> Diane (the neighbor) to jump with her. At this point Diane
> interjected "If you want me to come back later you need to stop
> whining" to which Mo replied "I want you to come back Soon". "Well,
> no more whining, then!"
>
> Okay, clearly I need to talk with this lady separately, to try to
> diffuse this before it can happen again. She often gives the
> impression that she thinks it necessary to "teach lessons" to Morgan.
>
> By the time it occurred to me to interject something like "I think
> she's saying she'd Like to come back soon", the neighbor had made a
> break for it.
>
> I tried to explain to Mo, once she had gone, that I thought she
> was "trying to say yes" about coming back "soon" but didn't know
> how. At that point Morgan, who had calmed down, said to me "Well,
> there are three different ways to say yes: yes, yeah and si - "si"
> is Spanish." I commented that there were even more ways to say yes
> in other languages and that was sort of the end of the drama.
>
> So, ideas of what to say specifically to the neighbor, and things to
> suggest during these kinds of transitions? It was soooooo
> frustrating!
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@...>
wrote:
>> Or you could point out to Mo the way she is sounding to this lady
and ask her if she's
> willing to change her voice?

I didn't think she *sounded* whiney at all, actually. She was on the
verge of tears, but not using that sort of irritating tone that
is "whining". That's part of why I was so floored - the whole
comment seemed to come out of no-where.

> I wonder if you could say what you did say "I think she's saying
that she does want to
> come back", in front of the other lady?

I think that's a good idea. I also think I'm going to have to talk
to Diane before she plays with Morgan again or I'm afraid I won't be
able to get a word in edgewise. She's "quick on her feet" verbally
(if that makes any sense), and I'm not.

I've been giving this some more thought and I think Diane is under
the impression that Mo was trying to manipulate her into staying
longer, and that's where the whole "whining" thing came from. From
my perspective, Mo was sad that the time was up and expressing that
and needed some validation, not a lecture or lesson - blah!

Just as a side note, generally when Diane tries to "teach" Mo
something, Mo attempts to change the subject. Well, she has a new
strategy, which is pretending not to know the "answer" or even
understand the question. I asked Mo about *that* last night and she
let me know that Diane was "silly" and so Morgan was playing a trick
on her. I almost fell out of bed laughing at that. Don't know if I
should let Diane in on the joke or not....

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Julie v.

Oh, I understand now. It sounds like the friend is probably coming from a background of
"stop whining or you don't get to ....", or "if you don't stop crying you can't .....". That's
funny that Mo thought she was being silly, sounds like she is right on with that one.

I'm the same way in regards to "thinking on my toes", it's only after the fact and after I've
had a chance to step back and look at the situation that I can come up with what I should
have said. Now that your aware of how she interacts with Mo, maybe you can think of
some good things to say when another situation comes up, then perhaps she can learn
from you:)

Julie




--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@>
> wrote:
> >> Or you could point out to Mo the way she is sounding to this lady
> and ask her if she's
> > willing to change her voice?
>
> I didn't think she *sounded* whiney at all, actually. She was on the
> verge of tears, but not using that sort of irritating tone that
> is "whining". That's part of why I was so floored - the whole
> comment seemed to come out of no-where.
>
> > I wonder if you could say what you did say "I think she's saying
> that she does want to
> > come back", in front of the other lady?
>
> I think that's a good idea. I also think I'm going to have to talk
> to Diane before she plays with Morgan again or I'm afraid I won't be
> able to get a word in edgewise. She's "quick on her feet" verbally
> (if that makes any sense), and I'm not.
>
> I've been giving this some more thought and I think Diane is under
> the impression that Mo was trying to manipulate her into staying
> longer, and that's where the whole "whining" thing came from. From
> my perspective, Mo was sad that the time was up and expressing that
> and needed some validation, not a lecture or lesson - blah!
>
> Just as a side note, generally when Diane tries to "teach" Mo
> something, Mo attempts to change the subject. Well, she has a new
> strategy, which is pretending not to know the "answer" or even
> understand the question. I asked Mo about *that* last night and she
> let me know that Diane was "silly" and so Morgan was playing a trick
> on her. I almost fell out of bed laughing at that. Don't know if I
> should let Diane in on the joke or not....
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>