frozenandcold

<<<<As much as I like to give free
choice (they can pick between healthy foods) and I offer junk food
in moderation... I just don't feel comfortable saying you can have
it whenever you want it.>>>>

The point being is that when kids are in control of what they put in
their mouth they begin to listen to their bodies and make wise food
choices most of the time. My kids have total control over what they
choose to eat or not and most of the time they choose those things
that are healthier for them. We have "junk food" around and we
have "healthy" things around and they usually eat a little of both.
I put out platters of vegetables, fruit, cheese, crackers, etc. and
the vegetables are usually the first to go. After a few pieces of
candy Tristan will usually ask me to make him something healthy
because he doesn't feel so good. They really do learn to listen to
cues their bodies give them.

The problem lies with children who are controlled and then when
given that control they will gorge on the stuff that they usually
can't have, because they believe it won't be there tomorrow. They
will ignore how they feel because they are hording. Poverty
stricken people or ones that, at some point in their lives have had
to live in poverty, will do the same thing, as was already mentioned.


Many, many times my kids will say 'no thanks' to sweets and goodies
because they don't feel like it and they do it because they know
they can wake up in the morning and have the same thing at home if
they want. Tristan threw away half of his Halloween candy because
he knew he would never finish it. People are always flabbergasted
that my kids will say no to goodies. And I certainly haven't put
their health in jeopordy, they are some of the healthiest kids I
know and they will eat all sorts of things that most kids wouldn't
even touch, ie tofu, Thai food, hummus, etc. And they HATE
McDonalds! (except the fries on occasion)

Heidi

kristenhendricks55

It's funny the way you explained that. It just got me thinking of
something.

At home, all the candy is put up and my three year old asks for it
when she wants some. (my younger two are only 14 mos and 3 mos so
they dont get candy lol)

So when she has the chance to get her hands on some, it's gone in a
heartbeat.

But now that I think about it... we go to gym class every week and
afterwards we always hit the pizza buffet restaurant. They have
pizza, pasta, and salad.

I guess since pizza would be the "junk food" of the three... and
shes always been able to have the pizza... its not as desirable to
her anymore. That would explain why she now only wants the salad and
breadsticks. Okay and maybe a brownie too LOL

But I guess if I look at it from the way youre explaining it... shes
now picking the salad and veggies(and it blows my mind since shes
three lol) because she knows the pizza will be there if she wants it.

Ive never thought of it like that I guess... hmmm...


--- In [email protected], "frozenandcold"
<fivefreebirds@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<As much as I like to give free
> choice (they can pick between healthy foods) and I offer junk food
> in moderation... I just don't feel comfortable saying you can have
> it whenever you want it.>>>>
>
> The point being is that when kids are in control of what they put
in
> their mouth they begin to listen to their bodies and make wise
food
> choices most of the time. My kids have total control over what
they
> choose to eat or not and most of the time they choose those things
> that are healthier for them. We have "junk food" around and we
> have "healthy" things around and they usually eat a little of
both.
> I put out platters of vegetables, fruit, cheese, crackers, etc.
and
> the vegetables are usually the first to go. After a few pieces of
> candy Tristan will usually ask me to make him something healthy
> because he doesn't feel so good. They really do learn to listen
to
> cues their bodies give them.
>
> The problem lies with children who are controlled and then when
> given that control they will gorge on the stuff that they usually
> can't have, because they believe it won't be there tomorrow. They
> will ignore how they feel because they are hording. Poverty
> stricken people or ones that, at some point in their lives have
had
> to live in poverty, will do the same thing, as was already
mentioned.
>
>
> Many, many times my kids will say 'no thanks' to sweets and
goodies
> because they don't feel like it and they do it because they know
> they can wake up in the morning and have the same thing at home if
> they want. Tristan threw away half of his Halloween candy because
> he knew he would never finish it. People are always flabbergasted
> that my kids will say no to goodies. And I certainly haven't put
> their health in jeopordy, they are some of the healthiest kids I
> know and they will eat all sorts of things that most kids wouldn't
> even touch, ie tofu, Thai food, hummus, etc. And they HATE
> McDonalds! (except the fries on occasion)
>
> Heidi
>

woodhaven_farm

--- <fivefreebirds@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<As much as I like to give free
> choice (they can pick between healthy foods) and I offer junk food
> in moderation... I just don't feel comfortable saying you can have
> it whenever you want it.>>>>
>
>
When I first started parenting, I was very concerned about food. I
was very selective about what came in the house. Then I started
noticing how friends older kids acted about food and feeling like a
hypocrit when I wanted the food that I was concealing from my child.
By the time Ihad my first bio child, I had changed my views on many
things.

DS (4) has never had any food restrictions. Certain foods upset his
stomach, and I have helped with that connection, but sometimes he
wants to try them, and that is his choice. He is an active
participant when we grocery shop. He may chose what ever he wants.
This is not to say that I do not provide him with little tidbits
about nutrition and ingrediants, but if he were to prefer goldfish to
his chedder bunnies, that is his choice.

Overall, ds eats a pretty healthy diet. He eats when he is hungry.
When people offer him treats sometimes he says yes, sometimes no. We
have had two buckets of halloween candy on the table since halloween.
I think he has eaten a handful so far (and there is lots of "good"
candy in there).

All of his friends are told what to eat, when to eat, and how much to
eat. Food is labeled as good or bad, etc. I have been startled at how
many occasions that I see these kids STEAL food from plates and
drawers and sneak around to eat them. The parents tell me that if
they don't control what the kids eat that they would never stop. So
what happens when mom or dad are no longer there?

It makes me so sad to see the power that food has in these kids
lives. The kids cry, beg, whine, and meltdown all over food. We had a
Christmas party complete with Santa, but most of the kids were to
busy watching the goodies and slipping past them to sneak a bite to
enjoy Santa. My son was so excited that he didn't even eat any sweets.

I watched a kid swipe candy from a desk while their parent was
checking them in (drs office). The kid slipped in the corner to eat,
looked nervously at me, and asked me if I let my kid eat candy. I
said sure. She asked how much or something to that effect. I told her
that he could eat what he wanted when he wanted. She was dumbfounded,
then told me what an awesome mom I was. I don't want my kid growing
up coveting a candy bar.

While every person has different tastes, I really think if "junk
food" is just there and not assigned any power, that kids will show
moderation without soemone having to "control" them. Maybe not at the
get go, but as soon as they realize that it is available at their
discretion.

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Wood_haven wrote:
All of his friends are told what to eat, when to eat, and how much to
eat. Food is labeled as good or bad, etc. I have been startled at how
many occasions that I see these kids STEAL food from plates and
drawers and sneak around to eat them. The parents tell me that if
they don't control what the kids eat that they would never stop. So
what happens when mom or dad are no longer there?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will tell you what happens. My 23 year old nice was here visiting us from NC where she goes to College. Her boyfriend that she has been dating since High School was homeschooled and his mom was somewhat an unschooler. But she did limit TV and allowed no video games or any junk food. They only ate healthy organic stuff.
My niece was not homeschooled by my sister never limited or controlled her food because that was they way we were raise by my mom. My niece eats very healthy and she is a lacto-ova vegetarian by choice since she was I think 15 or 16 ( my sister is not and never was). Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. He still likes junk more than healthy food.
So all the controlling his parents did only cause him to not like the healthy food and crave "junk".
Alex



__,_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kristen Hendricks

"Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. "

While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations, not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.

I am only 21 years old, moved out of my parents house when I was 17. I was not allowed junk food most of the time and wasn't allowed to eat much in between meals. To this day, I still don't eat much junkfood... really none at all most of the time.

I never felt the need to binge on it after I moved out.

While it may be a good theory, it's not true in my situation.

I think, is anything, my parents taught me to eat it in moderation because it's bad for me. Therefore, I understood that when I got older and just decided not to eat it since it was bad for my body.

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...> wrote:
Wood_haven wrote:
All of his friends are told what to eat, when to eat, and how much to
eat. Food is labeled as good or bad, etc. I have been startled at how
many occasions that I see these kids STEAL food from plates and
drawers and sneak around to eat them. The parents tell me that if
they don't control what the kids eat that they would never stop. So
what happens when mom or dad are no longer there?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will tell you what happens. My 23 year old nice was here visiting us from NC where she goes to College. Her boyfriend that she has been dating since High School was homeschooled and his mom was somewhat an unschooler. But she did limit TV and allowed no video games or any junk food. They only ate healthy organic stuff.
My niece was not homeschooled by my sister never limited or controlled her food because that was they way we were raise by my mom. My niece eats very healthy and she is a lacto-ova vegetarian by choice since she was I think 15 or 16 ( my sister is not and never was). Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. He still likes junk more than healthy food.
So all the controlling his parents did only cause him to not like the healthy food and crave "junk".
Alex

__,_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






*Kristen*
Kendall MacKenzie
8/30/2003
Riley Elizabeth
11/7/2005
Nolan Alexander
9/20/2006





---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Charles Coleman

Wow Kristen! It sounds like your parents did a really good job on you. It sounds like you were brought up with a lot of love and respect. It sounds like they took time to explain why they did or did not allow you to do or have certain things.
I'm sure his parents did what they believed was the best and I'm glad he is starting to take better care of himself.


Kristen Hendricks <kristenhendricks55@...> wrote:
"Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. "

While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations, not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.

I am only 21 years old, moved out of my parents house when I was 17. I was not allowed junk food most of the time and wasn't allowed to eat much in between meals. To this day, I still don't eat much junkfood... really none at all most of the time.

I never felt the need to binge on it after I moved out.

While it may be a good theory, it's not true in my situation.

I think, is anything, my parents taught me to eat it in moderation because it's bad for me. Therefore, I understood that when I got older and just decided not to eat it since it was bad for my body.

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...> wrote:
Wood_haven wrote:
All of his friends are told what to eat, when to eat, and how much to
eat. Food is labeled as good or bad, etc. I have been startled at how
many occasions that I see these kids STEAL food from plates and
drawers and sneak around to eat them. The parents tell me that if
they don't control what the kids eat that they would never stop. So
what happens when mom or dad are no longer there?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will tell you what happens. My 23 year old nice was here visiting us from NC where she goes to College. Her boyfriend that she has been dating since High School was homeschooled and his mom was somewhat an unschooler. But she did limit TV and allowed no video games or any junk food. They only ate healthy organic stuff.
My niece was not homeschooled by my sister never limited or controlled her food because that was they way we were raise by my mom. My niece eats very healthy and she is a lacto-ova vegetarian by choice since she was I think 15 or 16 ( my sister is not and never was). Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. He still likes junk more than healthy food.
So all the controlling his parents did only cause him to not like the healthy food and crave "junk".
Alex

__,_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*Kristen*
Kendall MacKenzie
8/30/2003
Riley Elizabeth
11/7/2005
Nolan Alexander
9/20/2006

---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 7, 2007, at 12:45 PM, Kristen Hendricks wrote:

> While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations,
> not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk
> food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.

It's not a theory. It's statistics.

Some kids come out of school barely able to function.

Some kids come out of school and go onto Harvard.

Which is the right theory?

None. It's statistics. A certain percentage will go onto Harvard and
a certain percentage will have a tough time getting a job at Wal-Mart.

It is a common *human* behavior to respond to limits by hoarding or
excessively craving what was once limited. It won't be 100% response.
Maybe not even 75%. I haven't kept statistics on it over the past 12
years of reading the stories of the outcomes of removing limits, but
it's *very* common for kids to binge on what they've been denied. It
can be TV or snacky food or anything (but those are the most common
things parents limit so those are what most of the stories are about.)

Joyce





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Kristen wrote

While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations, not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.

I am only 21 years old, moved out of my parents house when I was 17. I was not allowed junk food most of the time and wasn't allowed to eat much in between meals. To this day, I still don't eat much junkfood... really none at all most of the time.

I never felt the need to binge on it after I moved out.

While it may be a good theory, it's not true in my situation.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>First of all this case is not a "theory". This is a kid I have known since he was 17 years old. Second of all the percentage of kids that binge eat and drink and gain weight in College is so big you may wonder why. Is it because the parents are not there to control them????I was also raised in Brazil where it is like France and a lot of parents will let their kids drink. I remember drinking as early as 6. Sunday late afternoon lunches always included a glass of red wine if a kid wanted and our parents bar was always open. Non of the four kids in our family drink in a regular basis now. And I don't remember a lot of drinking in College either. There were two times I had too much to drink when I was on my twenties and because I did not like not being totally on control of MYSELF I really dislike being drunk. I cannot image why kids go to College and go crazy drinking until they are sick....
Alex



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kristen Hendricks

The idea is a theory... maybe not your particular situation sinc eyou know this person.

What I'm saying is that it IS a theory that kids who were never forbidden something will never binge on it.

It is ALSO a theory that a child who IS forbidden something will binge on the forbidden thing when he is on his own.

Not true.

My parents made it very clear I was not to drink, smoke or do drugs growing up. And that was the bottom line... I was not to question their decisions whatsoever.

To this day I have never done any sort of drug, I have had two drinks EVER (one this new years eve and one last year) and have never even raised a cigarette to my mouth.

I have no desire to, because I as my own person can make my own decisions now based on what I feel is right for me.

I was raised with rules and good morals and I know doing those things is wrong, so I don't do them. I have no desire to harm my body is any way, so I choose not to.

And this is coming from a person who was brought up in a house FULL of rules.

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...> wrote:
Kristen wrote

While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations, not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.

I am only 21 years old, moved out of my parents house when I was 17. I was not allowed junk food most of the time and wasn't allowed to eat much in between meals. To this day, I still don't eat much junkfood... really none at all most of the time.

I never felt the need to binge on it after I moved out.

While it may be a good theory, it's not true in my situation.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>First of all this case is not a "theory". This is a kid I have known since he was 17 years old. Second of all the percentage of kids that binge eat and drink and gain weight in College is so big you may wonder why. Is it because the parents are not there to control them????I was also raised in Brazil where it is like France and a lot of parents will let their kids drink. I remember drinking as early as 6. Sunday late afternoon lunches always included a glass of red wine if a kid wanted and our parents bar was always open. Non of the four kids in our family drink in a regular basis now. And I don't remember a lot of drinking in College either. There were two times I had too much to drink when I was on my twenties and because I did not like not being totally on control of MYSELF I really dislike being drunk. I cannot image why kids go to College and go crazy drinking until they are sick....
Alex



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






*Kristen*
Kendall MacKenzie
8/30/2003
Riley Elizabeth
11/7/2005
Nolan Alexander
9/20/2006





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kristenhendricks55

At the time I thought it was alot of rules, but now I see why they
did it.

I was never just told "no" because if I had been, I'm sure I would
have rebelled because I wanted to do it anyway.

They explained to me why I couldnt smoke or drink or what have you.
They told me what it would do to my body and how it would hurt me.

Thats why I restrict sweets at our house. My daughter who is three
had some friends over a few days after halloween and one mom allowed
her kids to eat candy after candy just to keep him quiet. Mom never
said anything, however, my 3 year old jumped right in and told
him "your teeth will fall out of your mouth". LOL


--- In [email protected], Charles Coleman
<shamma346@...> wrote:
>
> Wow Kristen! It sounds like your parents did a really good job on
you. It sounds like you were brought up with a lot of love and
respect. It sounds like they took time to explain why they did or
did not allow you to do or have certain things.
> I'm sure his parents did what they believed was the best and I'm
glad he is starting to take better care of himself.
>
>
> Kristen Hendricks <kristenhendricks55@...> wrote:
> "Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but
when he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to
eat was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed
at home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more
relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. "
>
> While that is a good theory and may be true in alot of situations,
not all kids who were not allowed junk food/or were limited on junk
food, will end up eating it non-stop after they move out.
>
> I am only 21 years old, moved out of my parents house when I was
17. I was not allowed junk food most of the time and wasn't allowed
to eat much in between meals. To this day, I still don't eat much
junkfood... really none at all most of the time.
>
> I never felt the need to binge on it after I moved out.
>
> While it may be a good theory, it's not true in my situation.
>
> I think, is anything, my parents taught me to eat it in moderation
because it's bad for me. Therefore, I understood that when I got
older and just decided not to eat it since it was bad for my body.
>
> Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky <polykow@...> wrote:
> Wood_haven wrote:
> All of his friends are told what to eat, when to eat, and how much
to
> eat. Food is labeled as good or bad, etc. I have been startled at
how
> many occasions that I see these kids STEAL food from plates and
> drawers and sneak around to eat them. The parents tell me that if
> they don't control what the kids eat that they would never stop.
So
> what happens when mom or dad are no longer there?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will tell you what happens. My 23 year old nice
was here visiting us from NC where she goes to College. Her
boyfriend that she has been dating since High School was
homeschooled and his mom was somewhat an unschooler. But she did
limit TV and allowed no video games or any junk food. They only ate
healthy organic stuff.
> My niece was not homeschooled by my sister never limited or
controlled her food because that was they way we were raise by my
mom. My niece eats very healthy and she is a lacto-ova vegetarian by
choice since she was I think 15 or 16 ( my sister is not and never
was). Her boyfriend is doing better at eating healthy now but when
he moved out of his parents house and control all he wanted to eat
was junk and play video games. All the stuff he was not allowed at
home. She says he still binges on junk a lot but has gotten more
relaxed after 5 years of only eating junk. He still likes junk more
than healthy food.
> So all the controlling his parents did only cause him to not like
the healthy food and crave "junk".
> Alex
>
> __,_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>._,___
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> *Kristen*
> Kendall MacKenzie
> 8/30/2003
> Riley Elizabeth
> 11/7/2005
> Nolan Alexander
> 9/20/2006
>
> ---------------------------------
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it
now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ren Allen

~~What I'm saying is that it IS a theory that kids who were never
forbidden something will never binge on it.

It is ALSO a theory that a child who IS forbidden something will binge
on the forbidden thing when he is on his own.

Not true.~~


First of all, the above ideas are NOT just theories, they're
well-studied human behavior traits. Secondly, you're painting it in
absolutes and human behavior is never like that.

You can never say "If you do ______, then______ will happen". That's
setting up a false argument because there just aren't any absolutes
where human's are concerned. Every person responds to stimulus and
environment differently. When a very large percentage of people react
a certain way, we can learn from those situations about what is
helpful or harmful.

It's pretty easy to see that MOST humans are going to react to food
controls with some form of binging. Happens all the time. There's book
after book written on this topic, with solid research to back them.
Good research.

My kids "binge" on certain items at times, even though their food is
NOT controlled by me. Heck, we all love a good dose of truffles or
mashed potatoes or some of the things that we don't have every day.
Sometimes root beer floats sound really great and we have a bunch of
those. Trying to keep my kids from binging is not my goal.

All of my children will request foods like brocolli, potatoes,
noodles, pita pockets with hummus, homemade bread and other healthy
snacks. They'll also ask for candy bars and soda sometimes. I trust
that when their body has had enough, they'll eat something
different...and they do.

It doesn't FEEL very good to eat a bunch of sugar and nothing else.
After a while you just crave some protein or a hot meal. I have free
choice over my food and so do they. We all listen to our own body and
I trust their learning process with food, just as with all other
topics in the universe.

Just because SOME humans won't react to food controls with unhealthy
habits and behaviors, doesn't make food controls a good idea.

Our prisons are FULL of people that were raised in abusive homes.
There are also some people that were raised in abusive homes that
create a great life for themselves and do positive things. Does that
mean abuse is a good idea, just because SOME people seem to overcome it?

I'm not attempting any specific outcome other than children that trust
and know their OWN limits and preferences. If they binge, they
binge....that's their choice. So far, they're really healthy and eat a
very balanced diet overall. I don't use food controls because I think
they suck. I wouldn't want someone telling ME what to do, what to eat
etc....so I don't perpetuate that on my children.

Bottom line, this lifestyle makes sense to me.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/7/2007 6:10:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kristenhendricks55@... writes:

I was raised with rules and good morals and I know doing those things is
wrong, so I don't do them. I have no desire to harm my body is any way, so I
choose not to.



I made the same choice as you, but people who choose to do those
(self-destructive) things are often ALSO raised with great morals, know those things are
wrong but they instead decide they want to hurt themselves and mess their
lives up. I don't blame the parents or rules or the word 'no' for that. I blame
the individual who made that bad choice. This reminds me of a story that my
mom always tells about two sons of an alcoholic. one became a drinker and
the other never touched alcohol in his life, but when asked "why do you drink /
why do you not drink" they both responded with the answer "because my father
drinks."

We live in a society of victims who love to blame their parents, the
government, their lack of opportunities, etc...and seek out therapists who search
their past for all sorts of abuses that can answer why they aren't how they
wish they were. They blame others for everything that didn't go right rather
than pointing the finger at themselves and remembering that they had a choice. I
rarely hear people saying "oh yeah, my mom (who tried her hardest and
communicated the only way she knew how) DID tell me it would hurt me, I didn't
listen and did it anyway and have continued to rebel and do things that I know
will hurt me for years after, what is wrong with ME, not my parents, what do I
need to do to straighten MYSELF out and become self-respecting?"

Adriana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

What I'm saying is that it IS a theory that kids who were never forbidden something will never binge on it.

It is ALSO a theory that a child who IS forbidden something will binge on the forbidden thing when he is on his own.

Not true.


*****

Actually for some of us, it is true. I was raised in a house where we weren't allowed junk - -the only cereal we ever had at home was Total, and we only ate Roman Meal bread. My sister, brother and I were the 20-something-olds (and we each left home at 18, so the food thing took years to work thru) roaming the grocery store with our carts filled with Cap'n Crunch cereal, Froot Loops, fruit cocktail drinks, wonder bread and all manner of other artificial food It was years before any of us came back around to eating healthy food by choice.

And don't even get me started on the weight issues that confront some of us who lived on very tightly controlled diets.

So, for some it is hypothetical, others have personal experience As with all things your mileage may vary, and we all make our choices with our own past experiences in mind, no matter what the choice. For me the choice is to give my kids as much autonomy as humanly possible, so they can figure out their own dietary needs, preferences and how to moderate all that while they're still young.


also, the above text I snipped was confusing, because I'm not sure if the same person said all those things...

Sylvia


Gary (dh)
Will (almost 22!) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (almost 6)

Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown




http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Kristen wrote:

Thats why I restrict sweets at our house. My daughter who is three
had some friends over a few days after halloween and one mom allowed
her kids to eat candy after candy just to keep him quiet. Mom never
said anything, however, my 3 year old jumped right in and told
him "your teeth will fall out of your mouth". LOL


>>>>>>>>>>>>So your daughter does not eat it because you have made her afraid of it??? What will it happen when she realizes lots of other kids eat candy and their teeth does not fall out?????
Will she have the same trust on you as before?
And worse than binging on something that was limited or prohibit is eating something you feel pleasure eating but immense guilt for doing it.
I don't want my kids to grow up and feel guilty if they feel pleasure eating a bom-bom. I hope they can enjoy it and be happy and trust their mom to be truthful to them and not use scare tatics to control them.
Alex

,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanne

--- In [email protected], "kristenhendricks55"
<kristenhendricks55@...> wrote:
>>>>Thats why I restrict sweets at our house. My daughter who is
three had some friends over a few days after halloween and one mom
allowed her kids to eat candy after candy just to keep him quiet.
Mom never said anything, however, my 3 year old jumped right in and
told him "your teeth will fall out of your mouth". LOL>>>>


Teeth don't fall out from eating candy.

"Allowing" a child to eat candy to "shut them up" has nothing to do
with unschooling.

My 8 year old daughter has total freedom to choose what she puts
into her body. This same daughter just threw out candy that she got
for Halloween. It's been sitting there for 2 months and she only ate
about a quarter of it.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

kristenhendricks55

So your daughter does not eat it because you have made her afraid of
it??? What will it happen when she realizes lots of other kids eat
candy and their teeth does not fall out?????"

My daughter is not afraid to eat candy because she thinks her teeth
will fall out. She ate the candy she wanted that day. But I have
explained to her that if she eats and eats and eats nothing but junk
her teeth will fall out (just like her dad's did when he was younger
and could eat whatever he wanted... he had nothing but cavities.)

Let me ask you a question....

Would you feel right if you let your child eat nothing but candy (if
that is what they choose to do) but you never sat them down and told
them that they could get cavities and could lose teeth because of
lal the sugar? Would they be making an informed decision or would
you be denying them the truth?

I would rather tell my kids the truth, bad or good and then if they
choose to tell others and spread the knowledge... I say spread on!!!!



--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
>
> Kristen wrote:
>
> Thats why I restrict sweets at our house. My daughter who is three
> had some friends over a few days after halloween and one mom
allowed
> her kids to eat candy after candy just to keep him quiet. Mom
never
> said anything, however, my 3 year old jumped right in and told
> him "your teeth will fall out of your mouth". LOL
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>So your daughter does not eat it because you have made
her afraid of it??? What will it happen when she realizes lots of
other kids eat candy and their teeth does not fall out?????
> Will she have the same trust on you as before?
> And worse than binging on something that was limited or prohibit
is eating something you feel pleasure eating but immense guilt for
doing it.
> I don't want my kids to grow up and feel guilty if they feel
pleasure eating a bom-bom. I hope they can enjoy it and be happy and
trust their mom to be truthful to them and not use scare tatics to
control them.
> Alex
>
> ,___
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

kristenhendricks55

"Allowing" a child to eat candy to "shut them up" has nothing to do
> with unschooling.

I'm sorry, but I dont see where I said that allowing a child to eat
candy to get them to shut up had anything to do with unschooling?
Where did you get the idea that I was saying that?



--- In [email protected], "Joanne"
<billyandjoanne@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "kristenhendricks55"
> <kristenhendricks55@> wrote:
> >>>>Thats why I restrict sweets at our house. My daughter who is
> three had some friends over a few days after halloween and one mom
> allowed her kids to eat candy after candy just to keep him quiet.
> Mom never said anything, however, my 3 year old jumped right in
and
> told him "your teeth will fall out of your mouth". LOL>>>>
>
>
> Teeth don't fall out from eating candy.
>
> "Allowing" a child to eat candy to "shut them up" has nothing to
do
> with unschooling.
>
> My 8 year old daughter has total freedom to choose what she puts
> into her body. This same daughter just threw out candy that she
got
> for Halloween. It's been sitting there for 2 months and she only
ate
> about a quarter of it.
>
> ~ Joanne ~
> Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
> http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
>

Ren Allen

~~I'm sorry, but I dont see where I said that allowing a child to eat
candy to get them to shut up had anything to do with unschooling?
Where did you get the idea that I was saying that?~~


Because you were using it as an example of why "allowing" a child to
eat all the candy they want is a bad idea. We're not here to tell
people "give your kid all the candy they want" or "let them eat candy
so they'll leave you alone".

The kind of parenting paradigm we're discussing is about being
mindful, being aware and NOT just doing things without thought.

It wasn't a good example for using against our advice to give kids
more autonomy over their food choices.

Interestingly, all of the kids I know that DO have free choice over
food, don't WANT to eat nothing but candy. Show me a kid that will eat
nothing but candy for more than a day. The human body does not feel
very good after a very short time of this. Worst case, it will
probably last for about 3 days. I don't think most humans can go three
days on nothing but sweets though.

I dare you to try it.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Kids that are allowed to eat all and what they want without guilt, coercion or limits will not choose to eat only candy. Period.
And Ren is right. Sugar alone will not cause cavities. Genetics, and other factors plus the needed Strep Mutans bacteria are necessary for cavities to occur.
I never cared about candies but one of my cousins and my best friend love them and always had candies and gum when we were young. They both are cavity free.
We are not saying that our kids eat "junk and "candy" all day long without us providing healthy foods and guidance.
My ds ( 4 and a half years old ) is really getting into discussing healthy foods now.
Alex

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Candy can lead to SERIOUS complications and I am living proof of someone
that tried the "do what you want with your candy" approach and seriously regret
it. I have unschooled my kids with candy, have very little at home but let
them have what is offered to them; mostly from goody bags at parties (parties
happen all year long) and Halloween. One of mine, the oldest really doesn't
like it, the youngest likes it but mostly is into chocolate and that isn't
something that really has hurt her teeth much. The middle one eats all he can
get, loves the gooey colored sugary crap, plus what the other two don't want.
He has had rotted out baby molars that ended up needing fillings and
extractions. One needed a deep filling and bacteria grew under when that tooth got
loose and then he ended up with an abscess and with severe toxemia in his body;
lost tons of weight wasn't growing, needed antibiotics which I HATE the idea
of. Now he is on lacto-bacilicus to get his intestines back in order. We also
unschooled with toothbrushing and flossing. He only brushes once a day and
flosses about once a month. The other two that do it more have better teeth.
Where am I with all of this now? Well, first of all next Halloween they will
have to go through their candies and pick maybe 10 or 12 that they like, the
rest go in the trash. They know this already and are ok with it. My son never
wants to go through this hell again but he needs my help in keeping him away
from it and getting his health in order! I'm also limiting what we accept
from others, and will stand by him and make sure he brushes and flosses twice a
day even if he hates it. The infection ALMOST SPREAD TO HIS BRAIN! They (the
dentists) told me of numerous occasions where this can happen and where kids
were on antibiotics (IV) in the hospital because a tooth got screwed up,
baby or permanent, all because of things like juice (even 100% fruit), sodas and
candies. So what candy can do to you IS serious. It can hurt a child's
blood sugar, pancreas, behavior, teeth, chances of proper digestion of other
foods and can be addictive.

NOT GOOD STUFF! I feel terribly guilty about all of this. I'm one of those
people who would NEVER allow someone to smoke around my child, yet I feel
there has been something inside of them that's been potentially almost as
damaging. We are making big changes around here because of it.

Adriana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Well, first of all next Halloween they will
have to go through their candies and pick maybe 10 or 12 that they
like, the rest go in the trash.~~

That's just downright cruel. Why not disallow trick or treating all
together if you're going to take everything away at the end? That stinks.

Are your only two choices to control their food OR have unhealthy
kids? Nope. Seeing only those two choices is preventing you from
seeing the hundreds of options, the many ways you don't have to
control what they eat AND have healthy children.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/7/2007 11:04:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

That's just downright cruel. Why not disallow trick or treating all
together if you're going to take everything away at the end? That stinks.
CRUEL? leaving 10 or 12 candies isn't taking it all away. They pick the ca
ndies and they came up with this number! We talked about what to do and this is
what we came up with (democratically) as a family. we went through HELL with
this, it is what we all thought the solution should be. Cruel was seeing him
with one side of his face blown up LIKE A BALOON from infection. If you want
to see pictures I will email them to you privately. We thought he had mumps.
This wasn't some small thing! My son (the one that almost had an infection
go to his BRAIN) doesn't think it is cruel. he thinks it would be cruel to
keep things the way they are and have him get sick again. He hates the needles,
the medicine (he's actually sitting right next to me telling me this,
dictating) LOL, but he says if there is a big bowl of candy he will eat it "no
matter what." I am really proud of him for knowing this about himself! The kids
LOVE LOVE LOVE getting dressed up. They love going door to door. The love
getting together with friends. All agree that the candy is not the part of trick
or treating that is great. They do love candy and will treasure the pieces
that they decide are most important to them. And will brush (and hopefully
floss) after.

Are your only two choices to control their food OR have unhealthy
kids? Nope. Seeing only those two choices is preventing you from
seeing the hundreds of options, the many ways you don't have to
control what they eat AND have healthy children.



My son, who had the infection, was born with a rare congenital defect of his
bile ducts. The other two are super healthy and do not have this problem. He
is VERY attracted (craves like crazy) everything that causes him to turn
yellow/jaundiced, become too acidic, and get things like canker-sores, cavities
and infections. (even too much fruit is a problem for him, if I have a large
bowl of strawberries for example, and put the whole bowl on the table, he
will eat the whole thing, get the sores in his mouth, get a low grade infection,
turn yellow) It took us the longest time to even see that there was any
relation to what he ate and his problems. Now that we know, I can't IMAGINE why
you would think that I shouldn't help him with this? I LOVE HIM. I want him to
live a long healthy life. He does too.

When you have a child telling you "I don't want to be sick again help me"
you help them!

Adriana





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "kristenhendricks55"
<kristenhendricks55@...> wrote:
>
> So your daughter does not eat it because you have made her afraid of
> it??? What will it happen when she realizes lots of other kids eat
> candy and their teeth does not fall out?????"
>
> My daughter is not afraid to eat candy because she thinks her teeth
> will fall out. She ate the candy she wanted that day. But I have
> explained to her that if she eats and eats and eats nothing but junk
> her teeth will fall out (just like her dad's did when he was younger
> and could eat whatever he wanted... he had nothing but cavities.)
>

I have lousy teeth. My dh has reasonably good teeth. My son has
excellent teeth. We all love sweets, and have been known to
overindulge. We brush afterwards, and ya know what -- we all have
great checkups.

A lot of my problems stem from not having fluoridated water as a
child. My husband did. My son had fluoride drops from infancy. So
my problems are not from eating sweets, but from having cavities (I
didn't floss until I was an adult, and not regularly until more recent
years) as a child, and not taking proper care of my teeth years ago.

I haven't had a new cavity in years.

I eat sweets.

I don't always even brush right away.

I will say, your dd will probably feel better within her own body by
not eating too many sweets -- I know I do. (I still eat 'em
sometimes, because, well, I was born with a set of genetically
programmed sweet teeth!)

That said, when my ds was younger, we did limit sweets at times. He
is now 15, and has been known to have too much. Logical consequences
don't always seem to teach the lesson, and we do intervene as parents.
We view it as guiding. That, too, can be done respectfully, though.

Linda

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/7/2007 11:56:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
trektheory@... writes:

A lot of my problems stem from not having fluoridated water as a
child. My husband did. My son had fluoride drops from infancy. So
my problems are not from eating sweets, but from having cavities (I
didn't floss until I was an adult, and not regularly until more recent
years) as a child, and not taking proper care of my teeth years ago.




I don't allow fluoride at the dentist's office (but they brush with regular
fluoridated toothpaste). Do you think I should allow the fluoride treatments?
I've read mixed things about it and decided not to do it because it was in
agreement with the not-vaccinating crowd (which we are a part of)

Adriana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ariannah Armstrong

Our family has been out of the school system for 4 years, and it's
gradually morphed into unschooling.

One of the euphoric honeymoon phases of our first homeschooling years
was that our family's principles were no longer undermined with the
onslaught of mainstream plastic values and such - we could learn
together in freedom without labels. This was the one place we could
come and breathe (literally) free of chemical scents (many of us have a
moderate sensitivity).

I think food choice is a highly personal thing, as is food guidance.
Each body is different, and can tolerate different things, and for
different reasons. Some families grow up vegetarian or vegan, some
people grow up meat eaters, some people add candy to the mix of both.
We were vegetarian for a good long while and ironically, even though we
got teased about it quite a bit, any dishes we brought to potluck style
gatherings, from delicious salads, to lasagnas and such, said teasers
were often the first to dive into our dishes and we were lucky if *we*
had anything to eat by the time we got around to it (grin). I'd bring
trays of fruit and melons and organic grapes, and they'd practically be
fighting over the last melon slice, because "It has been a long time
since we had something like this!".

I'm kind of new to getting used to the unschooling, deschooling
principles, and what makes someone a "true unschooler". What I love
about unschooling is that it's not jumping from one "box" into another,
and if one family doesn't typically have candy lying around their house
and one does, what matters is that the child is well loved and nourished
in freedom.

In general, at our house, candy isn't sought out or included as a "food
group" any more than my knitting needles and yarn are. I don't even
have to buy it, as our neighbours seem to have a steady supply going
that they offer to our children (grin). My kids eat it and enjoy the
taste, but even they know, without me having to tell them, that it's not
"food" (as in the sense of it is nourishing), but more something to
tickle the taste buds only. At Christmas time I spent an unusual amount
of money on candy to decorate cookie houses (I think I spent about $20
on the whole works). I told them they were allowed to eat as much of
their creations as they wished. Well, there are quite a bit of
"leftovers" on the kitchen counter growing stale and gross, and soon to
be tossed, and ny most people's definitions we are "restrictive" when it
comes to candy and things.

But for us, the main thing isn't that we say "no, that's bad" ( we
don't). Our kids themselves see that candy is nothing more than sugar
and fluff, and doesn't really satisfy them in the long term - they've
come to be quite practical people :) They like more bang for their
buck. They don't get excited about it because we don't get excited
about it.

Ariannah in Nova Scotia
--
"May we all have a vision now and then
Of a world where every neighbour is a friend"
Abba "Happy New Year" 1980
Personal Blog: http://ec.lecti.ca

Sylvia Toyama

My daughter is not afraid to eat candy because she thinks her teeth
will fall out. She ate the candy she wanted that day. But I have
explained to her that if she eats and eats and eats nothing but junk
her teeth will fall out (just like her dad's did when he was younger
and could eat whatever he wanted... he had nothing but cavities.)

******

For the record, unhealthy teeth is more a matter of genetics and water quality than of sugar eaten. Some people who are meticulous about tooth care, still have cavities. Some teeth come in with cavities -- Dan's teeth had weak, white spots even before they'd fully emerged. I have a cousin and a nephew who both had similar issues. I have three kids -- all fed the same kind of diet -- two with very few cavities (in spite of sporadic brushing on their parts), one with several crowns and fillings. It's not always about what one eats, or whether one brushes, etc.

Do you honestly believe that anyone with bad teeth eats candy non-stop?

Sylvia


Gary (dh)
Will (almost 22!) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (almost 6)

Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown




http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

he thinks it would be cruel to
keep things the way they are and have him get sick again
*****
Does he not feel that he has control over the situation? He saw himself in a mirror, he felt the pain and discomfort, he had to be poked and prodded and stuck with needles. Why doesn't he feel capable of saying I need to brush after this snickers or to respond to a gentle reminder?
Why does the candy still "need" restrictions?
Elissa Jill
OTN:
silk/wool blend tie front mini sweater
http://mystikmusings.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

There was a recent post about the dangers of candy and I want to address a
few unschooling concepts.

But first I want to ask some new members to read more and post less. Think
about why you're here. Are you hear to learn about unschooling? If you
are then arguing and telling unschoolers the many ways they are wrong won't
help you. You're setting up a blockade in your mind to new ideas.

Now, if you don't want new ideas, that's up to you, but then, you shouldn't
be wasting our time with all your reasons why unschooling won't work. We
know it works. We've been living this life a long time. You can't tell
us anything about mainstream parenting ideas we haven't already given a lot
of thought to and can't find abundantly available in our everyday lives.


Unschooling is not a vacation from paying attention to what's going on with
our kids. Kids need food. Kids need mom's to be aware of what's happening
to their health. Any child who puts any kind of food into his mouth is also
introducing bacteria and making a cozy place for bacteria to grow. Yes,
bacteria grows in sugar, but it also grows in other foods. Bacteria can
live in plain water, which is one reason we chlorinate our water supplies.
But candy itself is not bacteria. It is another food that humans sometimes
eat.

Some people, because of genetics, because of bacteria's common to their
environment or family will, have tooth decay even if they brush regularly
and eat few sweets. Some people will have good, strong, decay resistant
teeth with little fuss. There is more to tooth decay than candy.

Thinking in extremes is not good thinking. Unschooling won't work well for
people who can't or won't think clearly. It wont work well for people who
have modeled their world around fear.

There are more ways to help kids keep their mouths clean than making them
brush and denying or limiting candy.

When Dylan was very little we got some soft tooth brushes for him. I would
hold him on my hip while I brushed my teeth. I am something of an obsessive
tooth brusher, (and always have been and that didn't save me from tooth
decay) so he saw me brush my teeth a lot. And he had a little brush to hold
and play with while I brushed. He could poke it into the stream of water
from the faucet and them brush my cheek or the mirror or his face or put it
in his mouth.

I would talk about how good it felt to have a clean mouth. His dad, who is
a creature of habit would snap his teeth together a few times and say "Ah,
clean choppers.!" and Dylan found that amusing.

Dylan didn't get teeth early but he had a tooth brush very early and he had
a consistent examples of pleasant tooth brushing.

And we always talked to him about why we did things, why we washed our hands
after going potty, or touching the dog bowl or taking out the trash. Why we
washed our hands before we prepared food. Why we used a clean dish cloth to
wipe the counter and table, etc. Not as a lecture in hygiene but as
conversation.

Dylan is fourteen and has never had a cavity. If I was going to brush my
teeth before leaving the house I'd invite him to come brush with me.
There was a time he wanted me to brush his teeth for him, and I did that.
We never talked about brushing as if it was unpleasant (and it's not) or a
chore, we just brushed with the same attitude as we might have about getting
dressed or any other ordinary thing. And we never talked about brushing as
if was desperately important. It was just one thing we did as part of
living.

I had read, before Dylan was born, that it was possible for mothers to
immunize their babies against the familial bacteria that can cause tooth
decay. I wish now I could find that bit I read, I have looked for it
without success. But the idea was that by sharing kisses or a spoon -
saliva, essentially - with a child before he has teeth, a mother might be
able to sort of inoculate her child. Introducing that common family
bacteria to a child before he has teeth can help build his immunity to that
bacteria. I don't know if that has been proved or disproved or ever will
be, but it's one of many things I read about tooth decay.

There were five children in our family and four of us had childhood cavities
and some as adults. My sister has no cavities. She's now fifty one. She
eats sweets and brushes her teeth. After my sister was born my mother had
postpartum depression and my aunt took my sister to live with her for
several months. I have often wondered if my sister's time with my aunt
inoculated her against our common family bacteria. My mother made an
attempt at boiling everything that would come in contact with her children's
mouths. My aunt was more practical. I'll never know the answer, but my
sister has healthy teeth while her siblings have had cavities.

So, Dylan had tooth brushes early and could use them however he wanted and
was given a consistent example of happy brushing. He was never told to
brush and never forced to brush and if he fell asleep for the night before
brushing it was no big deal. I believe that actually increased his
awareness of the difference between a clean feeling mouth and an unbrushed
mouth.

I cannot conceive of how a child's teeth could "rot out" without a mother
being aware there was a problem long before. It's easy to look in the
mouths of children. It's easy to detect infection by smell. I'm guessing
the term "rotted out" was used as part of the extreme language that's being
used in several of these posts and is an exaggeration of the facts. If it's
not, and if a child's teeth "rotted out" before he was give help then I
don't know what to say, except that unschooling will take more awareness on
the part of a parent than that.

My young nieces had cavities in their baby teeth so I understand that it
happens. I don't understand "rotted out."

***My son never wants to go through this hell again but he needs my help in
keeping him away
from it and getting his health in order! ***

I'm sure he'd never want to go through that again but the truth is he needed
your help long before this. It need never have happened and while that's
not easy to say nor I'm sure to hear, or consider, I'm addressing this
because you've come to this list and offered this information freely and
seem to be trying to convince many long time unschoolers, who don't force
brushing or restrict sweets, that the culprit was candy.

Deb Lewis

Ariannah Armstrong

Deb Lewis wrote:
>
> But first I want to ask some new members to read more and post less.

Sure. I am learning a lot. But I hope I've said some valid things.
Ariannah in Nova Scotia

--
"May we all have a vision now and then
Of a world where every neighbour is a friend"
Abba "Happy New Year" 1980
Personal Blog: http://ec.lecti.ca

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/8/2007 10:08:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MystikMomma@... writes:

Why doesn't he feel capable of saying I need to brush after this snickers or
to respond to a gentle reminder?
Why does the candy still "need" restrictions?



he doesn't feel like he can remember to brush every time and he doesn't
think he will limit himself if there is a huge bowl of candy in front of him. I
feel that way about plenty of things myself and have asked friends to remind
me, or have set my life up in a way that makes things better and healthier for
me. I am really proud that he understands his limitations and welcomes the
help. He's pretty darn mature for 9!
Adriana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]