lpodietz

I've been lurking around, reading the various postings that have
come up lately, and I guess I want to add my two cents on the topic
of rules/limits/yes/no/maybe.....

Perhaps there's no absolute-- each child has their own needs and
issues, as does each parent. As my husband said last night when we
were discussing this, it's all relative. In one situation, no
limits is an expression of total trust and love, and the
child "gets" that (even if they wish their parents had said "no"
more often, as we heard from an unschooled person). In another
situation, no limits is perceived as neglect and the child feels
unloved and insignificant, wishing their parents cared enough to say
no occasionally. And few of us are in a utopic situation; demands
like work, chores, perhaps aging parents, illnesses, or
other challenges present themselves and we need to adjust to meet
these challenges.

For one child playing WOW all day may be an expression of passion
and determination, for another it may be a fearful escape from
having to deal with the real world, which may be a painful or scary
place for them to be...

Life is a work in progress, and anyone who thinks that they have the
one and only answer, and because it works for them it will work for
everyone, is taking a narrow and unrealistic view in my opinion... I
think we each have to follow our gut, be sensitive to and respectful
of those around us...easier said than done...!

For instance, school definitely works for our 11th grade daughter---
nobody needs
to feel sorry for her because she does not have the freedom of an
unschooled life. On the other hand, school was a living hell for our
14 yo son and when he crashed last spring, he left and never went
back. This turned our world, our expectations, our assumptions, our
thinking, upside down.

So from where I'm sitting, the only absolute is our love for our
families, the rest is an open question... and we each have to try to
determine for ourselves what is best, given the circumstances that
present themselves. We make mistakes, we try a different approach,
we stay open, we communicate... definitely more shades of gray than
black and white.

Donna Brown

I appreciate the individual respect unschooling has at the heart of it's philosphy. This reply seems to take that into account. We nuture and allow our families the freedom to chose; to be whatever they need in whatever enviroment is best. We are the only ones who can recognize the needs and work toward the healthiest life possible for our families.
Thanks for the contribution.

----- Original Message ----
From: lpodietz <lpodietz@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 11:02:11 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] my two cents about rules/WOW/saying no....etc

I've been lurking around, reading the various postings that have
come up lately, and I guess I want to add my two cents on the topic
of rules/limits/ yes/no/maybe. ....

Perhaps there's no absolute-- each child has their own needs and
issues, as does each parent. As my husband said last night when we
were discussing this, it's all relative. In one situation, no
limits is an expression of total trust and love, and the
child "gets" that (even if they wish their parents had said "no"
more often, as we heard from an unschooled person). In another
situation, no limits is perceived as neglect and the child feels
unloved and insignificant, wishing their parents cared enough to say
no occasionally. And few of us are in a utopic situation; demands
like work, chores, perhaps aging parents, illnesses, or
other challenges present themselves and we need to adjust to meet
these challenges.

For one child playing WOW all day may be an expression of passion
and determination, for another it may be a fearful escape from
having to deal with the real world, which may be a painful or scary
place for them to be...

Life is a work in progress, and anyone who thinks that they have the
one and only answer, and because it works for them it will work for
everyone, is taking a narrow and unrealistic view in my opinion... I
think we each have to follow our gut, be sensitive to and respectful
of those around us...easier said than done...!

For instance, school definitely works for our 11th grade daughter---
nobody needs
to feel sorry for her because she does not have the freedom of an
unschooled life. On the other hand, school was a living hell for our
14 yo son and when he crashed last spring, he left and never went
back. This turned our world, our expectations, our assumptions, our
thinking, upside down.

So from where I'm sitting, the only absolute is our love for our
families, the rest is an open question... and we each have to try to
determine for ourselves what is best, given the circumstances that
present themselves. We make mistakes, we try a different approach,
we stay open, we communicate. .. definitely more shades of gray than
black and white.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lelania1

> Perhaps there's no absolute-- each child has their own needs and
> issues, as does each parent.

I really liked your post here. I have found in my own life which has
included extensive contact with families of many persuasions and
children of endless variation, that parenting is best accomplished
when it is responsive to the individual child, and not reactive. And
when it is responsive to a set of rules, societal norms or idealistic
models and philosophies more so than to the child himself, I think
that's a big problem.

How many of us thought judgemental things about families who had a
child that did X or behaved like Y, only to later on have our own
child who did the same things? If only those people were more
controlling. If only they were less controlling. It really never
ends. I remember a woman in my midwifery apprenticeship long ago
whose baby just didn't seem right to her, and everyone blamed her and
her husband, after first denying anything was wrong. People asserted
he was off because she had projected it onto him. Because their
marriage ended (it ended more from the stress of the parenting
actually)Turns out, he is autistic, and now several more families
have had children with various neurological issues and that community
has had to really look at their perceptions and judgments.

I don't have absolutely factual information about much of what I need
to make decisions on in my life, including parenting. Accepting this
has been a relief in a lot of ways. I accept that I will handle
things poorly sometimes, and that I will make the best decision I can
and it will still turn out poorly sometimes. I remember when I was
earlier on in my midwifery career and realized that the death of a
baby was an inevitability. No matter how hard I tried and how good a
midwife I was, if I did a lot of births in all likelihood a baby I
was involved with would die. The anticipation of this was papralyzing
sometimes. I just didn't want it to ever ever happen. I wanted to do
everything right, never make a mistake, and knowing I was human and
could screw up was so frustrating. Knowing I could not screw up and a
baby could still die was also frustrating. And then it happened. It
was horrible, it was no ones fault, it was life. It just was. I
recognized somewhere in there that all I could do was really think
about my choices, and make the decisions that my intuition and head-
heart combo guided me to make. This has become true of my life
outside my job. And it really applies to parenting for me.

I use the word "no" very rarely. I always look for a way to frame my
response positively. I find this more honest actually. Because the
true answer isn't usually "no", its "yes, but later on", "Yes, if we
do it like this", "yes, if I help you with this part" and "yes
whatever." The knee jerk preface "NO" before the further explination
to the child is so ubiquitous, and so unexamined. I hear it all the
time. It takes some retraining to stop no-ing kids when the answer is
actually more complex than "NO". It also makes the "NO" way more
effective when you need a child to stop moving toward a rattlesnack.

I worked in a health clinic for years as a counselor. I ran a lot of
HIV tests, pregnancy tests, did STD screening and counseling and much
of it for teenagers. Their parents weren't there, because their
parents had made the message clear: If you screw up, I won't love
you. And the kids heard that message loud and clear and believed it.
The ways in which parents use terror, fear, conditional love and
threats to try and control their childrens sexuality are shocking to
me. Do you really want to be the last person to know about your
childs pregnancy? Do you really want your child managing a serious
health problem or STD all alone with adult strangers to help them?
Because if you use these tactics, that's what some of you will get.

It strikes me, that most of the unschooled teens I know are pretty
geeky sexually. Meaning, they aren't actually doing it. I know a lot
of teen and adult unschooled kids, and the vast majority (I mean,
99%) never had sex til they were adults. I can't say that of ANY of
the kids I went to school with. I think its because their parental
relationships are fulfilling enough that they don't have to look
elsewhere to try and meet those emotional needs or validate their
self worth. Adults have this bizarre mythology sometimes that if they
just tell their kids not to have sex, or threaten them with death and
homelessness then they just won't do these things. Yet statistics
keep telling us it isn't true. They do these things MORE often, they
do them LESS safely, and they do it while hiding it as best they can
from their parents.
The other approach you can have is unconditional love for your child.
Sending the message consistently, thoroughly and with respect to
everything, that your child is your heart, and nothing ever will
change that. That they can do anything and tell you about it and you
will love them and help them as best you can. That they will not be
punished, or rejected, ever by you. You can't protect them from the
truly natural consequences of the world, or from the consequences
societally imposed, but it won't affect your love of them and their
place in their family.
I feel like it isn't enough just to say this stuff in a big lecture
format, it takes consistent behavior that really says this to them
with action from birth onward.
carrie