sibling rivalry
Tricia
Hi all,
I haven't posted in a while but as usual I
am still here in lurkdom:-)
We have been having a great time with our
new life and all has gone really well except
for this one problem that I am hoping someone
may have some answers to.
My ds 11 is really being aggresive towards ds 6.
He will want the xbox from him and just takes it
from ds 6.At which point ds6 will begin to squeal
and scream for us to help him.
Or ds 6 will be watching t.v. (we have 3 that
they can watch anytime)and ds 11 will leave his t.v.
(or what ever) and come just turn off little ones
program telling him it is a stupid program and then
the squealing and screams begin again,at which time a
fightwill break out.
He will tell ds 6 that he isn't a good ninja,skateboarder,
brother etc. if he doesn't do whatever ds 11 wants.
It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.
when I try the methods I have learned in the books
siblings without rivalry and the explosive child
the older ds will really explode and beat holes
in the wall,break windows,break doors etc.
At other times he is an awsome brother and I know
he loves his brother.
Another thing that I want to point out is he also will
explode on us with words,not physically anymore since beginning
unschooling 3 yrs ago.
There have been times that ds 11 will get into a fight with my dd
27 and call her really bad names like a d**k sucking Wh***.
At which point she wants to spat him in the mouth,which is when he
will hit her.Mind you this is his birth mother and she is with me
here typing trying to know what the right thing to do in these
situations.She hasn't gotten the radical approach to unschooling
and I think she is now ready to learn.
So anything that you would like to know please ask.And anything you
want to say don't hesitate,please.
Tricia
I haven't posted in a while but as usual I
am still here in lurkdom:-)
We have been having a great time with our
new life and all has gone really well except
for this one problem that I am hoping someone
may have some answers to.
My ds 11 is really being aggresive towards ds 6.
He will want the xbox from him and just takes it
from ds 6.At which point ds6 will begin to squeal
and scream for us to help him.
Or ds 6 will be watching t.v. (we have 3 that
they can watch anytime)and ds 11 will leave his t.v.
(or what ever) and come just turn off little ones
program telling him it is a stupid program and then
the squealing and screams begin again,at which time a
fightwill break out.
He will tell ds 6 that he isn't a good ninja,skateboarder,
brother etc. if he doesn't do whatever ds 11 wants.
It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.
when I try the methods I have learned in the books
siblings without rivalry and the explosive child
the older ds will really explode and beat holes
in the wall,break windows,break doors etc.
At other times he is an awsome brother and I know
he loves his brother.
Another thing that I want to point out is he also will
explode on us with words,not physically anymore since beginning
unschooling 3 yrs ago.
There have been times that ds 11 will get into a fight with my dd
27 and call her really bad names like a d**k sucking Wh***.
At which point she wants to spat him in the mouth,which is when he
will hit her.Mind you this is his birth mother and she is with me
here typing trying to know what the right thing to do in these
situations.She hasn't gotten the radical approach to unschooling
and I think she is now ready to learn.
So anything that you would like to know please ask.And anything you
want to say don't hesitate,please.
Tricia
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Tricia" <unskoolerz@...>
wrote:
is dealing with kids' needs *before* the conflict gets rolling. If
you are waiting until the conflict has started the older boy may be
too upset to express himself other than physically.
The examples you give sound like situations where an adult isn't
right there with the boys - is that the case? If so, I'd say that
the older boy is needing some attention. He may not have the skills
yet, or feel secure enough in the relationship yet, to go find an
adult and say "hey, I'm bored, play/talk/hang out with me!" so he's
falling back on the tried-and-true method of getting attention -
fighting with his brother.
Look for ways to spend more time directly in his company - not in
the next room or running around the house cleaning, but being right
where he is. Maybe that means folding laundry or chopping vegetables
sitting next to him while he watches tv or plays a game, or letting
the dishes go so you can play in the yard with hime. Offer to do
things you know he likes rather than waiting for him to ask.
heal. He has a lot of anger and hurt and frustration that he's
trying to express to his mom. If she can't hear that yet then she
has some work to do, personally. In the meantime, it sounds like
they need a mediator.
Is a "spat" a slap? If so, well, I have a lot of problems with an
adult thinking she has a right to hit a child in the face. I don't
care what he calls her! If she can't hear it she needs to leave the
room/house whatever until she calms down enough to respond to his
needs, rather than reacting to his words.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>> when I try the methods I have learned in the booksWhat methods are we talking about? A big part of handling conflict
> siblings without rivalry and the explosive child
> the older ds will really explode and beat holes
> in the wall,break windows,break doors etc.
is dealing with kids' needs *before* the conflict gets rolling. If
you are waiting until the conflict has started the older boy may be
too upset to express himself other than physically.
The examples you give sound like situations where an adult isn't
right there with the boys - is that the case? If so, I'd say that
the older boy is needing some attention. He may not have the skills
yet, or feel secure enough in the relationship yet, to go find an
adult and say "hey, I'm bored, play/talk/hang out with me!" so he's
falling back on the tried-and-true method of getting attention -
fighting with his brother.
Look for ways to spend more time directly in his company - not in
the next room or running around the house cleaning, but being right
where he is. Maybe that means folding laundry or chopping vegetables
sitting next to him while he watches tv or plays a game, or letting
the dishes go so you can play in the yard with hime. Offer to do
things you know he likes rather than waiting for him to ask.
> There have been times that ds 11 will get into a fight with my ddIt sounds like there are a lot of old issues there that need to
> 27 and call her really bad names like a d**k sucking Wh***.
> At which point she wants to spat him in the mouth,which is when he
> will hit her.Mind you this is his birth mother and she is with me
> here typing trying to know what the right thing to do in these
> situations.She hasn't gotten the radical approach to unschooling
> and I think she is now ready to learn.
heal. He has a lot of anger and hurt and frustration that he's
trying to express to his mom. If she can't hear that yet then she
has some work to do, personally. In the meantime, it sounds like
they need a mediator.
Is a "spat" a slap? If so, well, I have a lot of problems with an
adult thinking she has a right to hit a child in the face. I don't
care what he calls her! If she can't hear it she needs to leave the
room/house whatever until she calms down enough to respond to his
needs, rather than reacting to his words.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Deb Lewis
***My ds 11 is really being aggresive towards ds 6.
He will want the xbox from him and just takes it
from ds 6.At which point ds6 will begin to squeal
and scream for us to help him.***
How much time away from his little brother does he get? Does he have
friends he can go visit?
Can you get out of the house with him, alone? He's older and needs a life
bigger and more interesting that what the six year old probably needs right
now.
What are you doing to make his world really interesting? Can you wrangle
another X box, used, from ebay or ..? One machine isn't enough when two
people want it at the same time.
***Or ds 6 will be watching t.v. (we have 3 that
they can watch anytime)and ds 11 will leave his t.v.
(or what ever) and come just turn off little ones
program telling him it is a stupid program and then
the squealing and screams begin again,at which time a
fightwill break out.***
When he does that, can you ask him to join you for a project? Go for a
walk with him? He sounds at loose ends, like someone who really doesn't
have ideas about what else he might do.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullying your
eleven year old? Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What is
it about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?
***when I try the methods I have learned in the books
siblings without rivalry and the explosive child
the older ds will really explode and beat holes
in the wall,break windows,break doors etc.***
Which methods, specifically?
***There have been times that ds 11 will get into a fight with my dd
27 and call her really bad names like a d**k sucking Wh***.
At which point she wants to spat him in the mouth,which is when he
will hit her.***
***Mind you this is his birth mother and she is with me
here typing trying to know what the right thing to do in these
situations.***
I'm confused. His birth mother is the person you called his older sister?
That's a complicated family dynamic. Have you considered counseling?
Does she leave him to go out with friends? Does she leave him to go out on
dates?
In his mind he is being put aside, left, for people she likes better.
The advice to be with him more is good advice. Don't wait for him to be
feeling lost and uncomfortable and angry. Be with him and help him find
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.
Deb Lewis
He will want the xbox from him and just takes it
from ds 6.At which point ds6 will begin to squeal
and scream for us to help him.***
How much time away from his little brother does he get? Does he have
friends he can go visit?
Can you get out of the house with him, alone? He's older and needs a life
bigger and more interesting that what the six year old probably needs right
now.
What are you doing to make his world really interesting? Can you wrangle
another X box, used, from ebay or ..? One machine isn't enough when two
people want it at the same time.
***Or ds 6 will be watching t.v. (we have 3 that
they can watch anytime)and ds 11 will leave his t.v.
(or what ever) and come just turn off little ones
program telling him it is a stupid program and then
the squealing and screams begin again,at which time a
fightwill break out.***
When he does that, can you ask him to join you for a project? Go for a
walk with him? He sounds at loose ends, like someone who really doesn't
have ideas about what else he might do.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullying your
eleven year old? Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What is
it about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?
***when I try the methods I have learned in the books
siblings without rivalry and the explosive child
the older ds will really explode and beat holes
in the wall,break windows,break doors etc.***
Which methods, specifically?
***There have been times that ds 11 will get into a fight with my dd
27 and call her really bad names like a d**k sucking Wh***.
At which point she wants to spat him in the mouth,which is when he
will hit her.***
***Mind you this is his birth mother and she is with me
here typing trying to know what the right thing to do in these
situations.***
I'm confused. His birth mother is the person you called his older sister?
That's a complicated family dynamic. Have you considered counseling?
Does she leave him to go out with friends? Does she leave him to go out on
dates?
In his mind he is being put aside, left, for people she likes better.
The advice to be with him more is good advice. Don't wait for him to be
feeling lost and uncomfortable and angry. Be with him and help him find
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.
Deb Lewis
Tricia Mccay
Merdeth said:
What methods are you talking about?
If I try to intervene by asking him if maybe he would like a snack or is he bored maybe? eg
Phil is lying on his floor playing xbox while Elijah is in the livingroom watching cartoons
a commercial comes on and Elijah will run to Phils room and jerk the xbox out of Phils hand saying "your stupid I can do better than that" or "let me play" at which time Phuil begans to squeel really loudly.
If I try to get Phil out away from Elijah and calm him down Elijah will say "hey thanks,you just gave me the xbox" and start laughing or follow me mad that I got Phil out
of the room and start beating the walls or beating a chair against the walls.
A big part of handling conflicts is dealing with the kids needs before the conflict gets rolling.
Are you saying that before the show goes on cartoon or program ends begin talking with him?
-
The examples you give sound like situations where an adult isn't
right there with the boys - is that the case? IF so, I'd say that
the older boy is needing some attention. He may not have the skills
yet, or feel secure enough in the relationship yet, to go find an
adult and say "hey, I'm bored, play/talk/hang out with me!" so he's
falling back on the tried-and-true method of getting attention -
fighting with his brother.
Yes,your right,they are usually each in their own spaces and it is usually when I am doing something like making dinner or on the computer.
Even if we are going for a drive somewhere if I will ask Elijah to sit up front and "help" me with directions or whatever their is never a problem.But if I have them both in the back
then I am not totally focused on Elijah he will start wrestling/play fighting and the sqeels will come and I will have to pull over until they have both stopped.
Look for ways to spend more time directly in his company - not in
the next room or running around the house cleaning, but being right
where he is. Maybe that means folding laundry or chopping vegetables
sitting next to him while he watches tv or plays a game, or letting
the dishes go so you can play in the yard with hime. Offer to do
things you know he likes rather than waiting for him to ask.
I think this is the key! Thanks,I do know it was in the books,but somehow I was missing it even though I was reading it. <brain fog maybe?> <grin>
heal. He has a lot of anger and hurt and frustration that he's
trying to express to his mom. If she can't hear that yet then she
has some work to do, personally. In the meantime, it sounds like
they need a mediator.
Right again! She is bipolar with borderline personality disorder and has fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue.She also went to public school and never learned to read/write
she is learning that now that we are unschooling her 2 boys.
She can read now but doesn't retain much of what she reads.I have been trying to unschool
her as we go but she still just doesn't get it.
She lives in a mobile home on our property and the kids have full reign of her place and mine.They have bedrooms in both homes even
though they only use them for playing in choosing either my husbands and my bed for sleeping or their Moms.
She has come along way though from where she was as has our entire family.
And to answer your question yes spat does mean slap.This is where Elijahs explosiveness comes in both his bioMom/Dad are bipolar and very impulsive although his Dad is not in the picture.
Is a "spat" a slap? If so, well, I have a lot of problems with an
adult thinking she has a right to hit a child in the face. I don't
care what he calls her! If she can't hear it she needs to leave the
room/house whatever until she calms down enough to respond to his
needs, rather than reacting to his words.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Thanks again Meredith,
This has helped probably more than you'll realize!
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What methods are you talking about?
If I try to intervene by asking him if maybe he would like a snack or is he bored maybe? eg
Phil is lying on his floor playing xbox while Elijah is in the livingroom watching cartoons
a commercial comes on and Elijah will run to Phils room and jerk the xbox out of Phils hand saying "your stupid I can do better than that" or "let me play" at which time Phuil begans to squeel really loudly.
If I try to get Phil out away from Elijah and calm him down Elijah will say "hey thanks,you just gave me the xbox" and start laughing or follow me mad that I got Phil out
of the room and start beating the walls or beating a chair against the walls.
A big part of handling conflicts is dealing with the kids needs before the conflict gets rolling.
Are you saying that before the show goes on cartoon or program ends begin talking with him?
-
The examples you give sound like situations where an adult isn't
right there with the boys - is that the case? IF so, I'd say that
the older boy is needing some attention. He may not have the skills
yet, or feel secure enough in the relationship yet, to go find an
adult and say "hey, I'm bored, play/talk/hang out with me!" so he's
falling back on the tried-and-true method of getting attention -
fighting with his brother.
Yes,your right,they are usually each in their own spaces and it is usually when I am doing something like making dinner or on the computer.
Even if we are going for a drive somewhere if I will ask Elijah to sit up front and "help" me with directions or whatever their is never a problem.But if I have them both in the back
then I am not totally focused on Elijah he will start wrestling/play fighting and the sqeels will come and I will have to pull over until they have both stopped.
Look for ways to spend more time directly in his company - not in
the next room or running around the house cleaning, but being right
where he is. Maybe that means folding laundry or chopping vegetables
sitting next to him while he watches tv or plays a game, or letting
the dishes go so you can play in the yard with hime. Offer to do
things you know he likes rather than waiting for him to ask.
I think this is the key! Thanks,I do know it was in the books,but somehow I was missing it even though I was reading it. <brain fog maybe?> <grin>
>It sounds like there are a lot of old issues there that need to
heal. He has a lot of anger and hurt and frustration that he's
trying to express to his mom. If she can't hear that yet then she
has some work to do, personally. In the meantime, it sounds like
they need a mediator.
Right again! She is bipolar with borderline personality disorder and has fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue.She also went to public school and never learned to read/write
she is learning that now that we are unschooling her 2 boys.
She can read now but doesn't retain much of what she reads.I have been trying to unschool
her as we go but she still just doesn't get it.
She lives in a mobile home on our property and the kids have full reign of her place and mine.They have bedrooms in both homes even
though they only use them for playing in choosing either my husbands and my bed for sleeping or their Moms.
She has come along way though from where she was as has our entire family.
And to answer your question yes spat does mean slap.This is where Elijahs explosiveness comes in both his bioMom/Dad are bipolar and very impulsive although his Dad is not in the picture.
Is a "spat" a slap? If so, well, I have a lot of problems with an
adult thinking she has a right to hit a child in the face. I don't
care what he calls her! If she can't hear it she needs to leave the
room/house whatever until she calms down enough to respond to his
needs, rather than reacting to his words.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Thanks again Meredith,
This has helped probably more than you'll realize!
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tricia Mccay
Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
How much time away from his little brother does he get?none
Does he have
friends he can go visit?No the only friends is at park days 2x a month and the little brother is there too.
Can you get out of the house with him, alone? He's older and needs a life
bigger and more interesting that what the six year old probably needs right
now.I can get out with him,I hadn't thought of that but I will give that a try.Sounds like it could help alot.
What are you doing to make his world really interesting? Can you wrangle
another X box, used, from ebay or ..? One machine isn't enough when two
people want it at the same time.
Yes,that will be taken care of as a Christmas gift.
When he does that, can you ask him to join you for a project? Go for a
walk with him? He sounds at loose ends, like someone who really doesn't
have ideas about what else he might do.
Yes,Meredith had just made me realize in a post earlier that I haven't really been making things happen for him to expand himself on and I thank you for helping me to see this.
I will make sure that he get's alone time with me and also help him to make some friends and be away from the little brother some.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullying your
eleven year old?
That would be a 16 yr old public schooled cousin that is here sometimes on weekends.I knew their was some problems but not to this extent.This is the only person who could be bullying him.I am with him 24/7.We live in the woods our only neighbors are 1/4 mile up the rd and are elderly.The cousin is the only one it could be.And I WILL take care of that.Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What is
it about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?I believe this is partly the bipolar since he has been lashing out since birth.
Which methods, specifically?
Such as hearing Elijahs point of veiw,validating it,asking both kids to help me brainstorm at which time Elijah will usually say something like "stop trying to do the books thing"<smiles>
lol,I am confused too Deb most of the time.I'm sorry,Elijah and his brother are my biological grandsons we adopted when it became clear that Angela couldn't care for them when she had a major breakdown after the birth of the youngest although we didn't legally adopt until the birth of her 2nd we have had Elijah since birth she has always been with us.I'm confused. His birth mother is the person you called his older sister?
That's a complicated family dynamic. Have you considered counseling?We have had conseling and Elijah and Mom are in therapy
Does she leave him to go out with friends?She doesn't date or go out with any friends other than taking the boys to a kids club on Saturday night.Although the boys do want her to date since they really want a Dad.<g> Does she leave him to go out on
dates?
In his mind he is being put aside, left, for people she likes better.Although she is with them mostly all the time she is easily frustrated and I think that maybe alot of the problem.She also watches ALOT of t.v.
The advice to be with him more is good advice. Don't wait for him to be
feeling lost and uncomfortable and angry. Be with him and help him find
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.This is the thing that I am going to work at making happen!
Deb Lewis
Thank You Deb
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How much time away from his little brother does he get?none
Does he have
friends he can go visit?No the only friends is at park days 2x a month and the little brother is there too.
Can you get out of the house with him, alone? He's older and needs a life
bigger and more interesting that what the six year old probably needs right
now.I can get out with him,I hadn't thought of that but I will give that a try.Sounds like it could help alot.
What are you doing to make his world really interesting? Can you wrangle
another X box, used, from ebay or ..? One machine isn't enough when two
people want it at the same time.
Yes,that will be taken care of as a Christmas gift.
When he does that, can you ask him to join you for a project? Go for a
walk with him? He sounds at loose ends, like someone who really doesn't
have ideas about what else he might do.
Yes,Meredith had just made me realize in a post earlier that I haven't really been making things happen for him to expand himself on and I thank you for helping me to see this.
I will make sure that he get's alone time with me and also help him to make some friends and be away from the little brother some.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullying your
eleven year old?
That would be a 16 yr old public schooled cousin that is here sometimes on weekends.I knew their was some problems but not to this extent.This is the only person who could be bullying him.I am with him 24/7.We live in the woods our only neighbors are 1/4 mile up the rd and are elderly.The cousin is the only one it could be.And I WILL take care of that.Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What is
it about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?I believe this is partly the bipolar since he has been lashing out since birth.
Which methods, specifically?
Such as hearing Elijahs point of veiw,validating it,asking both kids to help me brainstorm at which time Elijah will usually say something like "stop trying to do the books thing"<smiles>
lol,I am confused too Deb most of the time.I'm sorry,Elijah and his brother are my biological grandsons we adopted when it became clear that Angela couldn't care for them when she had a major breakdown after the birth of the youngest although we didn't legally adopt until the birth of her 2nd we have had Elijah since birth she has always been with us.I'm confused. His birth mother is the person you called his older sister?
That's a complicated family dynamic. Have you considered counseling?We have had conseling and Elijah and Mom are in therapy
Does she leave him to go out with friends?She doesn't date or go out with any friends other than taking the boys to a kids club on Saturday night.Although the boys do want her to date since they really want a Dad.<g> Does she leave him to go out on
dates?
In his mind he is being put aside, left, for people she likes better.Although she is with them mostly all the time she is easily frustrated and I think that maybe alot of the problem.She also watches ALOT of t.v.
The advice to be with him more is good advice. Don't wait for him to be
feeling lost and uncomfortable and angry. Be with him and help him find
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.This is the thing that I am going to work at making happen!
Deb Lewis
Thank You Deb
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tricia Mccay
Reposting this.I am sorry I had typed my answers in Dark blue and it didn't quite make it.Please let me know if this is discernable!
Tricia Mccay <unskoolerz@...> wrote:
Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
No the only friends is at park days 2x a month and the little brother is there too.
now.<<
I can get out with him,I hadn't thought of that but I will give that a try.Sounds like it could help alot.Sometimes we do go out to breakfast before the others get up,and it IS nice.<g>
people want it at the same time.<<
Yes,that will be taken care of as a Christmas gift.He is getting a new xbox.
have ideas about what else he might do.<<
Yes,Meredith had just made me realize in a post earlier that I haven't really been making things happen for him to expand himself on and I thank you for helping me to see this.
I will make sure that he get's alone time with me and also help him to make some friends and be away from the little brother some.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
That would be a 16 yr old public schooled cousin that is here sometimes on weekends.I knew their was some problems but not to this extent.This is the only person who could be bullying him.I am with him 24/7.We live in the woods our only neighbors are 1/4 mile up the rd and are elderly.The cousin is the only one it could be.And I WILL take care of that.
I believe this is partly the bipolar since he has been lashing out since birth.
I'm sorry,Elijah and his brother are my biological grandsons we adopted when it became clear that Angela(my dd and Elijah and Phil's Mom) couldn't care for them when she had a major breakdown after the birth of the youngest although we didn't legally adopt until the birth of her 2nd we have had Elijah since birth she has always lived with us.
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.<<
This is the thing that I am going to work at the hardest to make happen!
Deb Lewis
Thank You Deb
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tricia unschooling mom to Elijah age11 and Phillip age 6.
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Tricia Mccay <unskoolerz@...> wrote:
Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>>How much time away from his little brother does he get?<<He actually doesn't get any.He has always seemed as if he wanted to be with him.
>>Does he havefriends he can go visit?<<
No the only friends is at park days 2x a month and the little brother is there too.
>>Can you get out of the house with him, alone? He's older and needs a lifebigger and more interesting that what the six year old probably needs right
now.<<
I can get out with him,I hadn't thought of that but I will give that a try.Sounds like it could help alot.Sometimes we do go out to breakfast before the others get up,and it IS nice.<g>
>>What are you doing to make his world really interesting? Can you wrangleanother X box, used, from ebay or ..? One machine isn't enough when two
people want it at the same time.<<
Yes,that will be taken care of as a Christmas gift.He is getting a new xbox.
>>When he does that, can you ask him to join you for a project? Go for awalk with him? He sounds at loose ends, like someone who really doesn't
have ideas about what else he might do.<<
Yes,Meredith had just made me realize in a post earlier that I haven't really been making things happen for him to expand himself on and I thank you for helping me to see this.
I will make sure that he get's alone time with me and also help him to make some friends and be away from the little brother some.
***It's like ds 6 is ds 11's punching bag.***
>>When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullying youreleven year old?<<
That would be a 16 yr old public schooled cousin that is here sometimes on weekends.I knew their was some problems but not to this extent.This is the only person who could be bullying him.I am with him 24/7.We live in the woods our only neighbors are 1/4 mile up the rd and are elderly.The cousin is the only one it could be.And I WILL take care of that.
>>Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What isit about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?<<
I believe this is partly the bipolar since he has been lashing out since birth.
>>Which methods, specifically?<<Such as hearing Elijahs point of veiw,validating it,asking both kids to help me brainstorm at which time Elijah will usually say something like "stop trying to do the books thing"<smiles>
>>I'm confused his bio Mother is the person you called his sister.<<lol,I am confused too Deb most of the time!
I'm sorry,Elijah and his brother are my biological grandsons we adopted when it became clear that Angela(my dd and Elijah and Phil's Mom) couldn't care for them when she had a major breakdown after the birth of the youngest although we didn't legally adopt until the birth of her 2nd we have had Elijah since birth she has always lived with us.
>>That's a complicated family dynamic. Have you considered counseling?<<We have had conseling and Elijah and Mom are in therapy.
>>Does she leave him to go out with friends?She doesn't date(and hasn't in the almost 7 yrs since her divorce.) or go out with any friends other than taking the boys to a kids club on Saturday night.Although the boys do want her to date since they really want a Dad.<g>
>>In his mind he is being put aside, left, for people she likes better.<<Not being pushed aside for other people,but although she is with them most all the time she is easily frustrated and I think that maybe that's alot of the problem.She also watches ALOT of t.v.
>>The advice to be with him more is good advice. Don't wait for him to befeeling lost and uncomfortable and angry. Be with him and help him find
ways to be involved with things he enjoys. Eleven is a hard age. Little
kid things don't hold that much appeal and so many adult things are still
out of reach. Find ways to be with him more and to make his world big and
exciting.<<
This is the thing that I am going to work at the hardest to make happen!
Deb Lewis
Thank You Deb
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Tricia unschooling mom to Elijah age11 and Phillip age 6.
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Tricia Mccay
Tricia Mccay <unskoolerz@...> wrote: >>Meredeth said:
Phil is lying on his floor playing xbox while Elijah is in the livingroom watching cartoons
and a commercial comes on, Elijah will run to Phils room and jerk the xbox out of Phils hand saying "your stupid I can do better than that" or "let me play" at which time Phil begans to squeel really loudly.
If I try to get Phil out away from Elijah and calm him down Elijah will say "hey thanks,you just gave me the xbox" and start laughing or follow me angry that I got Phil out
of the room and start beating the walls or beating a chair against the walls.
and I am not totally focused on Elijah he will start wrestling/play fighting and the squeels will come and I will have to pull over until they have both stopped.
she is learning that now that we are unschooling her 2 boys.
She can read now but doesn't retain much of what she reads.I have been trying to unschool
her as we go but she still just doesn't get it.
She lives in a mobile home on our property and the kids have full reign of her place and mine.They have bedrooms in both homes even though they only use them for playing in choosing either my husbands and my bed,or their Mothers for sleeping.
She has come along way though from where she was as has our entire family.
Thanks again Meredith,
This has helped probably more than you'll realize!
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>>What methods are you talking about?If I try to intervene by asking him if maybe he would like a snack or is he bored maybe? eg
Phil is lying on his floor playing xbox while Elijah is in the livingroom watching cartoons
and a commercial comes on, Elijah will run to Phils room and jerk the xbox out of Phils hand saying "your stupid I can do better than that" or "let me play" at which time Phil begans to squeel really loudly.
If I try to get Phil out away from Elijah and calm him down Elijah will say "hey thanks,you just gave me the xbox" and start laughing or follow me angry that I got Phil out
of the room and start beating the walls or beating a chair against the walls.
>>A big part of handling conflicts is dealing >>with the kids needs before the conflict gets >>rolling.Are you saying that before the show goes on cartoon or program ends begin talking with him? I really didn't understand what you were saying I needed to do here differently until I reread this post for the 2nd time.What I think you are saying here is that it isn't enough for me to just be with them in the same house while they game or watch t.v. but to game and watch t.v. with them?
>>The examples you give sound like >>situations where an adult isn'tEven if we are going for a drive somewhere if I will ask Elijah to sit up front and "help" me with directions or whatever their is never a problem.But if I have them both in the back
>>right there with the boys - is that the case? >>IF so, I'd say that
>>the older boy is needing some attention. >>He may not have the skills
>>yet, or feel secure enough in the >>relationship yet, to go find an
>>adult and say "hey, I'm bored, >>play/talk/hang out with me!" so he's
>>falling back on the tried-and-true method >>of getting attention -
>>fighting with his brother.
>>Yes,your right,they are usually each in their own spaces and it is usually when I am doing something like making dinner or on the computer.
and I am not totally focused on Elijah he will start wrestling/play fighting and the squeels will come and I will have to pull over until they have both stopped.
>>Look for ways to spend more time directly >>in his company - not inI think this is the key! Thanks,I do know it was in the books,but somehow I was missing it even though I was reading it. <brain fog maybe?> <grin>
>>the next room or running around the house >>cleaning, but being right
>>where he is. Maybe that means folding >>laundry or chopping vegetables
>>sitting next to him while he watches tv or >>plays a game, or letting
>>the dishes go so you can play in the yard >>with hime. Offer to do
>>things you know he likes rather than >>waiting for him to ask.
>>It sounds like there are a lot of old issues >>there that need toRight again! She is bipolar with borderline personality disorder and has fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue.She also went to public school and never learned to read/write
>>heal. He has a lot of anger and hurt and >>frustration that he's
>>trying to express to his mom. If she can't >>hear that yet then she
>>has some work to do, personally. In the >>meantime, it sounds like
>>they need a mediator.
she is learning that now that we are unschooling her 2 boys.
She can read now but doesn't retain much of what she reads.I have been trying to unschool
her as we go but she still just doesn't get it.
She lives in a mobile home on our property and the kids have full reign of her place and mine.They have bedrooms in both homes even though they only use them for playing in choosing either my husbands and my bed,or their Mothers for sleeping.
She has come along way though from where she was as has our entire family.
>>Is a "spat" a slap? If so, well, I have a lot of >>problems with anYes,I am afraid a swat does mean a slap here.I think that maybe all of the posts here will help her to learn other ways.
>>adult thinking she has a right to hit a child >>in the face. I don't
>>care what he calls her! If she can't hear it >>she needs to leave the
>>room/house whatever until she calms >>down enough to respond to his
>>needs, rather than reacting to his words.
Thanks again Meredith,
This has helped probably more than you'll realize!
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Shannon
These two boys are both your daughter's sons? I thought you were referring to them all as yours at first.
Reading all the postings on this topic so far, confuses me.
If I'm confused, maybe those two boys are confused also, which could be a reason for all the angst and anger.
I know with my boys they fair much better when there is some sort of consistency, they know whether they are coming or going.
Dealing with the needs of the kids before conflict begins is key, which involves more than just commentary of what you expect to happen before a cartoon begins. We are talking about the fundamental needs of the child - what they have a right to - love & attention being two of the major ones. Attention requires a lot more than just acknowledging their presence, but being as involved with them as you would be with a close friend. - In other words, if you are focusing on their needs (as both the children that they are and the people that they are) all the time, then there would be a lot less of the behavior.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Reading all the postings on this topic so far, confuses me.
If I'm confused, maybe those two boys are confused also, which could be a reason for all the angst and anger.
I know with my boys they fair much better when there is some sort of consistency, they know whether they are coming or going.
Dealing with the needs of the kids before conflict begins is key, which involves more than just commentary of what you expect to happen before a cartoon begins. We are talking about the fundamental needs of the child - what they have a right to - love & attention being two of the major ones. Attention requires a lot more than just acknowledging their presence, but being as involved with them as you would be with a close friend. - In other words, if you are focusing on their needs (as both the children that they are and the people that they are) all the time, then there would be a lot less of the behavior.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tricia Mccay
I'm sorry that your confused Shannon,
Let me try to explain the situation as best as I can.
My daughter Angela gave birth to Elijah in 1995.She was still living at home and this was her 1st sexual encounter.Elijahs father was not in the picture.She continued to live with us and work with me careing for Elijah.
When Elijah was 2 yrs old she met a young man that she married and he signed Elijahs birth certificate,was a very good Dad untill the birth of his own son Phil 2.6 yrs later.
When Phil was 2 months old Angela caught him with someone else.He left with that woman and hasn't looked back.Angela had a breakdown and has spent the last 6 yrs in and out of hospitals,which is why we adopted the boys.
We live in a very small town,the Dad lives in this same town and has never tried to see the boys will walk right past them and not acknowledge them.
This has caused alot of confusion for the boys,for their Mom and for us,it is painful
for us all but we love each other and we will be ok as a family.
I hope this helps.
Tricia
Shannon <dez.shannon@...> wrote: These two boys are both your daughter's sons? I thought you were referring to them all as yours at first.
Reading all the postings on this topic so far, confuses me.
If I'm confused, maybe those two boys are confused also, which could be a reason for all the angst and anger.
I know with my boys they fair much better when there is some sort of consistency, they know whether they are coming or going.
Dealing with the needs of the kids before conflict begins is key, which involves more than just commentary of what you expect to happen before a cartoon begins. We are talking about the fundamental needs of the child - what they have a right to - love & attention being two of the major ones. Attention requires a lot more than just acknowledging their presence, but being as involved with them as you would be with a close friend. - In other words, if you are focusing on their needs (as both the children that they are and the people that they are) all the time, then there would be a lot less of the behavior.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Let me try to explain the situation as best as I can.
My daughter Angela gave birth to Elijah in 1995.She was still living at home and this was her 1st sexual encounter.Elijahs father was not in the picture.She continued to live with us and work with me careing for Elijah.
When Elijah was 2 yrs old she met a young man that she married and he signed Elijahs birth certificate,was a very good Dad untill the birth of his own son Phil 2.6 yrs later.
When Phil was 2 months old Angela caught him with someone else.He left with that woman and hasn't looked back.Angela had a breakdown and has spent the last 6 yrs in and out of hospitals,which is why we adopted the boys.
We live in a very small town,the Dad lives in this same town and has never tried to see the boys will walk right past them and not acknowledge them.
This has caused alot of confusion for the boys,for their Mom and for us,it is painful
for us all but we love each other and we will be ok as a family.
I hope this helps.
Tricia
Shannon <dez.shannon@...> wrote: These two boys are both your daughter's sons? I thought you were referring to them all as yours at first.
Reading all the postings on this topic so far, confuses me.
If I'm confused, maybe those two boys are confused also, which could be a reason for all the angst and anger.
I know with my boys they fair much better when there is some sort of consistency, they know whether they are coming or going.
Dealing with the needs of the kids before conflict begins is key, which involves more than just commentary of what you expect to happen before a cartoon begins. We are talking about the fundamental needs of the child - what they have a right to - love & attention being two of the major ones. Attention requires a lot more than just acknowledging their presence, but being as involved with them as you would be with a close friend. - In other words, if you are focusing on their needs (as both the children that they are and the people that they are) all the time, then there would be a lot less of the behavior.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Tricia Mccay
<unskoolerz@...> wrote:
to note that his Mother is bullying him. She slaps him in the face -
that's physical intimidation, right there.
sounds like the situation is really convoluted and unstable. You say
its confusing for *you* so it must be overwhelming for the kids at
times. You said that sometimes the kids sleep w/ you and sometimes
their mom - how is this decided? Is there a regular rotation or is
it decided either by the kids or adults or some combination?
Some kids do really well with a regular cycle of activities, and get
really stressed out when their normal cycle is thrown off - for
example, we recently had houseguests (sort of!) and my dd5 wouldn't
eat anything but candy on days when she got up to find them in the
kitchen. If they had breakfast before she got up, she would eat
other things. Look to see if the 11yr old has "cycles" of greater
and lesser intensity, and if they correspond to changes in the
environment - where he sleeps, what he's eating, the people he
interacts with during the day. You might want to takes notes for a
month so you can compare over time. That will give you a chance to
figure out what some of his "triggers" are and start looking for
ways to eliminate them AND help *him* be aware of them.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<unskoolerz@...> wrote:
>> When people feel bullied they often bully. Who could be bullyingI'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I think its important
>>your
>> eleven year old?
>The cousin is the only one it could
>be.And I WILL take care of that.
to note that his Mother is bullying him. She slaps him in the face -
that's physical intimidation, right there.
>>Who could be making him feel like lashing out? What isSome kids/people are naturally more intense than others, but it also
>> it about his life that leaves him feeling powerless?
>I believe this is partly the bipolar since he has been lashing out
>since birth.
sounds like the situation is really convoluted and unstable. You say
its confusing for *you* so it must be overwhelming for the kids at
times. You said that sometimes the kids sleep w/ you and sometimes
their mom - how is this decided? Is there a regular rotation or is
it decided either by the kids or adults or some combination?
Some kids do really well with a regular cycle of activities, and get
really stressed out when their normal cycle is thrown off - for
example, we recently had houseguests (sort of!) and my dd5 wouldn't
eat anything but candy on days when she got up to find them in the
kitchen. If they had breakfast before she got up, she would eat
other things. Look to see if the 11yr old has "cycles" of greater
and lesser intensity, and if they correspond to changes in the
environment - where he sleeps, what he's eating, the people he
interacts with during the day. You might want to takes notes for a
month so you can compare over time. That will give you a chance to
figure out what some of his "triggers" are and start looking for
ways to eliminate them AND help *him* be aware of them.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Chris and Kelli Bailey
i found this article interesting. assuming all
participants were traditionally schooled/parented, i
wonder if the results would have been different with
info coming from members of the unschooled community?!
if we had their question list, we could do our own
"study"! LOL
http://www.psycport.com/showArticle.cfm?xmlFile=bhsuper%5F2006%5F12%5F11%5FCINP%5F0000%2D0637%2DKEYWORD%2EMissing%2Exml&provider=The%20Cincinnati%20Post
:) kelli
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participants were traditionally schooled/parented, i
wonder if the results would have been different with
info coming from members of the unschooled community?!
if we had their question list, we could do our own
"study"! LOL
http://www.psycport.com/showArticle.cfm?xmlFile=bhsuper%5F2006%5F12%5F11%5FCINP%5F0000%2D0637%2DKEYWORD%2EMissing%2Exml&provider=The%20Cincinnati%20Post
:) kelli
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Tricia Mccay
plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
At this point in time I don't have a solution except for trying to educate her on radical unschooling.These boys would be traumatized if she were not here with them.
Usually Elijah will lay in our bed and watch a movie with us as he falls asleep.Phil likes the late hours like his Mom.
it today.
-------Tricia
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>I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I >think its importantIt's true she has slapped him and that's bullying him.
>to note that his Mother is bullying him.
At this point in time I don't have a solution except for trying to educate her on radical unschooling.These boys would be traumatized if she were not here with them.
>Some kids/people are naturally more intense >than others, but it alsoIn what way does it sound unstable to you?
>sounds like the situation is really convoluted >and unstable.
>You said that sometimes the kids sleep w/ >you and sometimesMy daughters mobile home is in our front yard.The kids decide where they want to fall asleep.It maybe with me and PaPa as we go to sleep around 10;00 or it maybe with Mom who doesn't go to sleep until much later.
>their mom - how is this decided? Is there a >regular rotation or is
>it decided either by the kids or adults or >some combination?
Usually Elijah will lay in our bed and watch a movie with us as he falls asleep.Phil likes the late hours like his Mom.
>Look to see if the 11yr old has "cycles" of >greaterI like this idea Meredith and am going to start
>and lesser intensity, and if they correspond >to changes in the
>environment - where he sleeps, what he's >eating, the people he
>interacts with during the day. You might >want to takes notes for a
>month so you can compare over time. That >will give you a chance to
>figure out what some of his "triggers" are >and start looking for
>ways to eliminate them AND help *him* be >aware of them.
it today.
-------Tricia
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Ren Allen
~~At this point in time I don't have a solution except for trying to
educate her
on radical unschooling.~~
I'm sorry, but you have legally adopted these children! I would NEVER
let anyone hit my child, regardless of what blood connections there
are. They depend on you to protect them, so please do it. You can seek
to educate her while making it VERY clear you will not let them be harmed.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
educate her
on radical unschooling.~~
I'm sorry, but you have legally adopted these children! I would NEVER
let anyone hit my child, regardless of what blood connections there
are. They depend on you to protect them, so please do it. You can seek
to educate her while making it VERY clear you will not let them be harmed.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Tricia Mccay
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
We are in the process of trying to hire someone that is "unschooly" to stay with Angela and be there for the kids when we can't.
I am sorry if I have made it sound as if we just say well since you gave birth you can abuse them.It is NOT that way,by no means.
Since the incident in which she slapped Elijah happened we have let her know that she has NO rights at all to discipline,raise her voice,control them in any way.And that if it ever happens again she will loose what priveliges she has with them.They are my first priority.
I really do appreciate all of the posts,I need as much imput as I can get.
Thanks,
Tricia
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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>I'm sorry, but you have legally adopted these >children! I would NEVERI have made it VERY clear that if she EVER yells at them OR hit's them again she will never be allowed around them again.
>let anyone hit my child, regardless of what >blood connections there
>are. They depend on you to protect them, so >please do it. You can seek
>to educate her while making it VERY clear >you will not let them be harmed.
We are in the process of trying to hire someone that is "unschooly" to stay with Angela and be there for the kids when we can't.
I am sorry if I have made it sound as if we just say well since you gave birth you can abuse them.It is NOT that way,by no means.
Since the incident in which she slapped Elijah happened we have let her know that she has NO rights at all to discipline,raise her voice,control them in any way.And that if it ever happens again she will loose what priveliges she has with them.They are my first priority.
I really do appreciate all of the posts,I need as much imput as I can get.
Thanks,
Tricia
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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