Need insight for a child who destroys 'things'
Cara
I'm new to US - about 6 months down the road. Before, we were
controlling parents. We are progressing, moving towards radical
unschooling as fast as my hubby can handle the changes.
In the past 6 months my oldest (8), who really got most of the
controlling parenting we did in the past, has been destroying other
peoples things when she is angry. I'm running out of ideas on how to
redirect that anger. Many times she says its frustration, things she
gets mad at that she can't control (cousins have to go to school and
can't play or come over, etc).
I've tried to show other ways to release frustration - running
outside, screaming, punching pillows, but she takes to cutting up
curtains, peeling paint off walls, scribbling on the floor with
crayons, cutting barbie's hair (her sisters doll), and more.
I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but it is
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.
She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she is angry, she
wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into a room for a while,
destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters', mine or her fathers),
and then we find them later (mostly because she hides them or tries
to hide it).
I keep trying to put relationship before things, but after 6 months
of destroyed items, her father is at his wits end and I'm very
frustrated. He is very angry and sees it as disrespect. He has
stopped spanking and punishing, which is a MAJOR step for him. But
he wants to make more and more rules just for her. He wants respect
for other family member's things. And I do too. We can't all live
in the house without respecting others' property, but I don't know
how to convey that thought/idea to her. She doesn't choose to
participate in a conversation about her anger or mistreatment of
others' possessions. Are there natural consequences to things like
this? Do you believe in natural consequences of actions?
I'd love to hear some input on how to approach this aspect. I have
two principles in our house - and one of them is not to hinder anyone
else in the house from doing what they love. This obviously goes
against that. I have tried to explain how I feel, but I don't get a
response - she usually just fades out.
Ideas? Thoughts?
Blessings,
Cara :)
controlling parents. We are progressing, moving towards radical
unschooling as fast as my hubby can handle the changes.
In the past 6 months my oldest (8), who really got most of the
controlling parenting we did in the past, has been destroying other
peoples things when she is angry. I'm running out of ideas on how to
redirect that anger. Many times she says its frustration, things she
gets mad at that she can't control (cousins have to go to school and
can't play or come over, etc).
I've tried to show other ways to release frustration - running
outside, screaming, punching pillows, but she takes to cutting up
curtains, peeling paint off walls, scribbling on the floor with
crayons, cutting barbie's hair (her sisters doll), and more.
I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but it is
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.
She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she is angry, she
wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into a room for a while,
destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters', mine or her fathers),
and then we find them later (mostly because she hides them or tries
to hide it).
I keep trying to put relationship before things, but after 6 months
of destroyed items, her father is at his wits end and I'm very
frustrated. He is very angry and sees it as disrespect. He has
stopped spanking and punishing, which is a MAJOR step for him. But
he wants to make more and more rules just for her. He wants respect
for other family member's things. And I do too. We can't all live
in the house without respecting others' property, but I don't know
how to convey that thought/idea to her. She doesn't choose to
participate in a conversation about her anger or mistreatment of
others' possessions. Are there natural consequences to things like
this? Do you believe in natural consequences of actions?
I'd love to hear some input on how to approach this aspect. I have
two principles in our house - and one of them is not to hinder anyone
else in the house from doing what they love. This obviously goes
against that. I have tried to explain how I feel, but I don't get a
response - she usually just fades out.
Ideas? Thoughts?
Blessings,
Cara :)
Kelly Weyd
Cara,
I have no advice for you. I just wanted to tell you I understand and can sympathize with you. We have the exact same issue (along with lots of other issues) going on in our house. My six year old is a 45 lb. wrecking machine. Like my hubby says we cannot just let her destroy the house. My hubby feels like he works hard (and he does work hard) to put a nice roof over our head, and a small child is destroying the place. We have talked to her till we are blue in the face........she just tunes us out. No amount of consequences have worked either. And unfortunately our only solution has been to have her essentially glued to my hip at all times, so that I have my eyeballs on her at all times. But quite honestly I'm EXHAUSTED! Like right now she is right behind me coloring. I never get a break, because while she is awake my eyeballs are on her. We have also had to put locks on our bedroom door and her sisters bedroom door, because she could not respect other people's
property. All the scissors in our house are hidden........the dog and cats are relieved since she thought giving them regular hair cuts was ok. And yes our walls and carpeting have taken a beating with any number of substances..........along with the stickers she stuck to her bedroom walls and then pulled them off pulling the paint and part of the dry wall with it. And she likes taking toys and putting holes in the dry wall. Now in our case she does not cut the curtains......she just hangs from them until the brackets are ripped right out of the wall. So I've just given up on curtains. The neighbors can just look in on us. Mariah also loves to flood floors and loves to smear an entire containers of shampoo all over the walls and floor. She even kicked out a window one time. Oh, I could go on and on. Now you know why I require her to be glued to my hip. But personally I can not go on like this either.......I need a break.
Kelly
Cara <casonnier@...> wrote:
I'm new to US - about 6 months down the road. Before, we were
controlling parents. We are progressing, moving towards radical
unschooling as fast as my hubby can handle the changes.
In the past 6 months my oldest (8), who really got most of the
controlling parenting we did in the past, has been destroying other
peoples things when she is angry. I'm running out of ideas on how to
redirect that anger. Many times she says its frustration, things she
gets mad at that she can't control (cousins have to go to school and
can't play or come over, etc).
I've tried to show other ways to release frustration - running
outside, screaming, punching pillows, but she takes to cutting up
curtains, peeling paint off walls, scribbling on the floor with
crayons, cutting barbie's hair (her sisters doll), and more.
I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but it is
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.
She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she is angry, she
wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into a room for a while,
destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters', mine or her fathers),
and then we find them later (mostly because she hides them or tries
to hide it).
I keep trying to put relationship before things, but after 6 months
of destroyed items, her father is at his wits end and I'm very
frustrated. He is very angry and sees it as disrespect. He has
stopped spanking and punishing, which is a MAJOR step for him. But
he wants to make more and more rules just for her. He wants respect
for other family member's things. And I do too. We can't all live
in the house without respecting others' property, but I don't know
how to convey that thought/idea to her. She doesn't choose to
participate in a conversation about her anger or mistreatment of
others' possessions. Are there natural consequences to things like
this? Do you believe in natural consequences of actions?
I'd love to hear some input on how to approach this aspect. I have
two principles in our house - and one of them is not to hinder anyone
else in the house from doing what they love. This obviously goes
against that. I have tried to explain how I feel, but I don't get a
response - she usually just fades out.
Ideas? Thoughts?
Blessings,
Cara :)
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I have no advice for you. I just wanted to tell you I understand and can sympathize with you. We have the exact same issue (along with lots of other issues) going on in our house. My six year old is a 45 lb. wrecking machine. Like my hubby says we cannot just let her destroy the house. My hubby feels like he works hard (and he does work hard) to put a nice roof over our head, and a small child is destroying the place. We have talked to her till we are blue in the face........she just tunes us out. No amount of consequences have worked either. And unfortunately our only solution has been to have her essentially glued to my hip at all times, so that I have my eyeballs on her at all times. But quite honestly I'm EXHAUSTED! Like right now she is right behind me coloring. I never get a break, because while she is awake my eyeballs are on her. We have also had to put locks on our bedroom door and her sisters bedroom door, because she could not respect other people's
property. All the scissors in our house are hidden........the dog and cats are relieved since she thought giving them regular hair cuts was ok. And yes our walls and carpeting have taken a beating with any number of substances..........along with the stickers she stuck to her bedroom walls and then pulled them off pulling the paint and part of the dry wall with it. And she likes taking toys and putting holes in the dry wall. Now in our case she does not cut the curtains......she just hangs from them until the brackets are ripped right out of the wall. So I've just given up on curtains. The neighbors can just look in on us. Mariah also loves to flood floors and loves to smear an entire containers of shampoo all over the walls and floor. She even kicked out a window one time. Oh, I could go on and on. Now you know why I require her to be glued to my hip. But personally I can not go on like this either.......I need a break.
Kelly
Cara <casonnier@...> wrote:
I'm new to US - about 6 months down the road. Before, we were
controlling parents. We are progressing, moving towards radical
unschooling as fast as my hubby can handle the changes.
In the past 6 months my oldest (8), who really got most of the
controlling parenting we did in the past, has been destroying other
peoples things when she is angry. I'm running out of ideas on how to
redirect that anger. Many times she says its frustration, things she
gets mad at that she can't control (cousins have to go to school and
can't play or come over, etc).
I've tried to show other ways to release frustration - running
outside, screaming, punching pillows, but she takes to cutting up
curtains, peeling paint off walls, scribbling on the floor with
crayons, cutting barbie's hair (her sisters doll), and more.
I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but it is
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.
She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she is angry, she
wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into a room for a while,
destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters', mine or her fathers),
and then we find them later (mostly because she hides them or tries
to hide it).
I keep trying to put relationship before things, but after 6 months
of destroyed items, her father is at his wits end and I'm very
frustrated. He is very angry and sees it as disrespect. He has
stopped spanking and punishing, which is a MAJOR step for him. But
he wants to make more and more rules just for her. He wants respect
for other family member's things. And I do too. We can't all live
in the house without respecting others' property, but I don't know
how to convey that thought/idea to her. She doesn't choose to
participate in a conversation about her anger or mistreatment of
others' possessions. Are there natural consequences to things like
this? Do you believe in natural consequences of actions?
I'd love to hear some input on how to approach this aspect. I have
two principles in our house - and one of them is not to hinder anyone
else in the house from doing what they love. This obviously goes
against that. I have tried to explain how I feel, but I don't get a
response - she usually just fades out.
Ideas? Thoughts?
Blessings,
Cara :)
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wuweimama
Cara,
It is not the unschooling. :-)
The delta between hitting children to direct their behavior and your
daughter using violence and aggression to demonstrate her distress and
anger is not much at all. The crux of unschooling is that children
learn what is modelled, irrelevant of our intentions, especially if
expected to "do as we say, not as we do". However, our son has had
aggressive issues related to dietary intolerances also. I don't know
if you are a member of Mothering.com but here is a copy of an
extensive post about what I have learned regarding aggressive
behaviors and parenting. There are quite a few links and you'll need
to register at Mothering.com to view them. I hope they help. There
isn't a simple solution.
<<Beloved,
I found The Explosive Child to help me understand my emotional
reactions as much as our son's. We are both intense people. I wanted
to mention The Feingold Diet (see www.feingold.org ) related to
artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, and high salicylate
loading. And dairy, soy, wheat, and high fructose corn syrup all are
associated with hyper aggressive behaviors in our son.
Naomi Aldort's new book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves and
Sheedy Kurchina's Raising Your Spirited Child both helped me learn
communication tools of validation.
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Childr...e=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...23288?v=glance
You might also see if the traits of "The Highly Sensitive Child" match
your son's temperment. Our son is auditorially sensitive and very
sensitive and triggered by other's emotional lability.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm
Here is a link with many other resources and references that you might
consider. Many of them may already be familiar.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=5823432&highlight=feingold#post5823432
Also check out the "My Challenge, My Love" thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=328627 and the
"Parenting and Rage" thread. They both help a lot with challenging
children.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=394579&highlight=feingold
Magnesium supplementation has had a significant calming effect for our
son. We use Natural Calm. Also Nordics Natural Cod Liver oil (peach
flavored) have helped. When things are most explosive (tired, hungry
and angry) we use Bach flower remedies Cherry Plum for anger; White
Chestnut for obscessive focus; and Rescue Remedy (and Elm for me for
feeling overwhelmed). Beech is helpful for tolerance of other's
imperfections; and Holly for suspiciousness and jealousy. They are all
natural and help when everyone is melting down. Food intolerances and
sleep needs are our biggest triggers for explosiveness. The Feingold
Diet has changed our lives. www.feingold.org>>
I hope things are more peaceful for your family soon.
Pat (resent again, hoping the links will work this time)
It is not the unschooling. :-)
The delta between hitting children to direct their behavior and your
daughter using violence and aggression to demonstrate her distress and
anger is not much at all. The crux of unschooling is that children
learn what is modelled, irrelevant of our intentions, especially if
expected to "do as we say, not as we do". However, our son has had
aggressive issues related to dietary intolerances also. I don't know
if you are a member of Mothering.com but here is a copy of an
extensive post about what I have learned regarding aggressive
behaviors and parenting. There are quite a few links and you'll need
to register at Mothering.com to view them. I hope they help. There
isn't a simple solution.
<<Beloved,
I found The Explosive Child to help me understand my emotional
reactions as much as our son's. We are both intense people. I wanted
to mention The Feingold Diet (see www.feingold.org ) related to
artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, and high salicylate
loading. And dairy, soy, wheat, and high fructose corn syrup all are
associated with hyper aggressive behaviors in our son.
Naomi Aldort's new book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves and
Sheedy Kurchina's Raising Your Spirited Child both helped me learn
communication tools of validation.
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Childr...e=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...23288?v=glance
You might also see if the traits of "The Highly Sensitive Child" match
your son's temperment. Our son is auditorially sensitive and very
sensitive and triggered by other's emotional lability.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm
Here is a link with many other resources and references that you might
consider. Many of them may already be familiar.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=5823432&highlight=feingold#post5823432
Also check out the "My Challenge, My Love" thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=328627 and the
"Parenting and Rage" thread. They both help a lot with challenging
children.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=394579&highlight=feingold
Magnesium supplementation has had a significant calming effect for our
son. We use Natural Calm. Also Nordics Natural Cod Liver oil (peach
flavored) have helped. When things are most explosive (tired, hungry
and angry) we use Bach flower remedies Cherry Plum for anger; White
Chestnut for obscessive focus; and Rescue Remedy (and Elm for me for
feeling overwhelmed). Beech is helpful for tolerance of other's
imperfections; and Holly for suspiciousness and jealousy. They are all
natural and help when everyone is melting down. Food intolerances and
sleep needs are our biggest triggers for explosiveness. The Feingold
Diet has changed our lives. www.feingold.org>>
I hope things are more peaceful for your family soon.
Pat (resent again, hoping the links will work this time)
Kelly Weyd
I'm the one that posted right after Cara about my 45 lb. wrecking machine. I love your post, and we are doing many of the things you mentioned below. My daughter is on a GF diet, and we have cut out all crap. If it comes in a box or a can we don't eat it. If it has corn syrup or food dye we don't eat it. We eat whole foods, and I cook from scratch. I've been using the Nordic Naturals fish oils (the whole family) for about 2 1/2 years now........LOVE THEM! Our 8 year old supposedly was ADD and well now after the fish oil I really don't see those issues anymore. Of course my 6 year old is another story. My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product for impulsivity? Thank You.
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
Cara,
It is not the unschooling. :-)
The delta between hitting children to direct their behavior and your
daughter using violence and aggression to demonstrate her distress and
anger is not much at all. The crux of unschooling is that children
learn what is modelled, irrelevant of our intentions, especially if
expected to "do as we say, not as we do". However, our son has had
aggressive issues related to dietary intolerances also. I don't know
if you are a member of Mothering.com but here is a copy of an
extensive post about what I have learned regarding aggressive
behaviors and parenting. There are quite a few links and you'll need
to register at Mothering.com to view them. I hope they help. There
isn't a simple solution.
<<Beloved,
I found The Explosive Child to help me understand my emotional
reactions as much as our son's. We are both intense people. I wanted
to mention The Feingold Diet (see www.feingold.org ) related to
artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, and high salicylate
loading. And dairy, soy, wheat, and high fructose corn syrup all are
associated with hyper aggressive behaviors in our son.
Naomi Aldort's new book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves and
Sheedy Kurchina's Raising Your Spirited Child both helped me learn
communication tools of validation.
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Childr...e=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...23288?v=glance
You might also see if the traits of "The Highly Sensitive Child" match
your son's temperment. Our son is auditorially sensitive and very
sensitive and triggered by other's emotional lability.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm
Here is a link with many other resources and references that you might
consider. Many of them may already be familiar.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=5823432&highlight=feingold#post5823432
Also check out the "My Challenge, My Love" thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=328627 and the
"Parenting and Rage" thread. They both help a lot with challenging
children.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=394579&highlight=feingold
Magnesium supplementation has had a significant calming effect for our
son. We use Natural Calm. Also Nordics Natural Cod Liver oil (peach
flavored) have helped. When things are most explosive (tired, hungry
and angry) we use Bach flower remedies Cherry Plum for anger; White
Chestnut for obscessive focus; and Rescue Remedy (and Elm for me for
feeling overwhelmed). Beech is helpful for tolerance of other's
imperfections; and Holly for suspiciousness and jealousy. They are all
natural and help when everyone is melting down. Food intolerances and
sleep needs are our biggest triggers for explosiveness. The Feingold
Diet has changed our lives. www.feingold.org>>
I hope things are more peaceful for your family soon.
Pat (resent again, hoping the links will work this time)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
Cara,
It is not the unschooling. :-)
The delta between hitting children to direct their behavior and your
daughter using violence and aggression to demonstrate her distress and
anger is not much at all. The crux of unschooling is that children
learn what is modelled, irrelevant of our intentions, especially if
expected to "do as we say, not as we do". However, our son has had
aggressive issues related to dietary intolerances also. I don't know
if you are a member of Mothering.com but here is a copy of an
extensive post about what I have learned regarding aggressive
behaviors and parenting. There are quite a few links and you'll need
to register at Mothering.com to view them. I hope they help. There
isn't a simple solution.
<<Beloved,
I found The Explosive Child to help me understand my emotional
reactions as much as our son's. We are both intense people. I wanted
to mention The Feingold Diet (see www.feingold.org ) related to
artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, and high salicylate
loading. And dairy, soy, wheat, and high fructose corn syrup all are
associated with hyper aggressive behaviors in our son.
Naomi Aldort's new book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves and
Sheedy Kurchina's Raising Your Spirited Child both helped me learn
communication tools of validation.
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Childr...e=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...23288?v=glance
You might also see if the traits of "The Highly Sensitive Child" match
your son's temperment. Our son is auditorially sensitive and very
sensitive and triggered by other's emotional lability.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm
Here is a link with many other resources and references that you might
consider. Many of them may already be familiar.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=5823432&highlight=feingold#post5823432
Also check out the "My Challenge, My Love" thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=328627 and the
"Parenting and Rage" thread. They both help a lot with challenging
children.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=394579&highlight=feingold
Magnesium supplementation has had a significant calming effect for our
son. We use Natural Calm. Also Nordics Natural Cod Liver oil (peach
flavored) have helped. When things are most explosive (tired, hungry
and angry) we use Bach flower remedies Cherry Plum for anger; White
Chestnut for obscessive focus; and Rescue Remedy (and Elm for me for
feeling overwhelmed). Beech is helpful for tolerance of other's
imperfections; and Holly for suspiciousness and jealousy. They are all
natural and help when everyone is melting down. Food intolerances and
sleep needs are our biggest triggers for explosiveness. The Feingold
Diet has changed our lives. www.feingold.org>>
I hope things are more peaceful for your family soon.
Pat (resent again, hoping the links will work this time)
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tonya Matthews
Hi Cara,
We are relatively new to unschooling too (about a year or so) but
I've been in a place similiar to yours with my oldest (who is now 11
1/2)
When he was little, we were very controlling too. I could easily
ramble here but will try to keep my thoughts a little organized!
I knew something wasn't 'right' with my son. I was told over and
over that it was a phase, it was me, etc etc but when he was 6 1/2 I
had had enough. My second child was 2 1/2 and STILL wasn't showing
any of the same characteristics. I would classify my son
as 'tortured' in that time.
He wouldn't go to the extent that you mention with destroying but he
did rip curtain rods out of the wall, break toys, put a doorknob
through the wall, self punish etc etc. I will say my husband and I
were at a loss. There were many tactics we took as far as parenting
him that did NOT work. I also took him to a chiropractor, a
kinesthesiologist, and a cranial sacral therapist. I went, mostly in
consultation, to a child psychologist. I ~wanted~ more than anything
to help my son.
I could describe the therapies we used but I think you'd be better
off googling them. He became less angry and rageful over time. He
also stopped having headaches weekly ( 2-3xs), stopped having that
wet spot in the front of his pants all the time, and stopped this
random vomiting he'd do in the morning sometimes.
Unschooling has helped him TREMENDOUSLY. He's more open and loving.
Definately feels that I'm on HIS side now where I just don't know if
he felt that before. He's also older and can be reasoned with better
but he has not destroyed anything in anger in years. YAY! He was
also diagnosed with anxiety and depression (and ADHD for the record,
oh and Oppositional Defiance Disorder ~which I would not accept) and
is on medication to help him with his depression and anxiety.
We've had him home for 1 1/2 yrs. Not going to school helps a lot
too. For the record, he liked school and the teachers liked him. He
never acted out in school. It was the social condtions and the bully
situation that made us quit.
I can sympathize with you. Many times no one WANTS to give you a
break b/c you, and they, never know when a rage may occur. We do use
Bach's Rescue Remedy (when I remember!) and it always seems to
help.. ~reminding me that it may long overdue to take that out
again, helps me too! ~ FYI~ it's very intense tasting, IMO, and we
just rub it on the back of our neck or wrists.
My son would go blind in a rage too. I guess thinking about it,
that's only a recent thing that seems to have let go... I wish you
the best. Get a break when you can to refuel. Keep a little journal
maybe, I do this, and write the sweet or cute things down. Those
moments can be forgotten when all you can recall are the rages.
Best of luck to you,
Warm regards,
Tonya in Auburn, MA
Christian 11.5
Rory 7.5
Alannah 3.5
We are relatively new to unschooling too (about a year or so) but
I've been in a place similiar to yours with my oldest (who is now 11
1/2)
When he was little, we were very controlling too. I could easily
ramble here but will try to keep my thoughts a little organized!
I knew something wasn't 'right' with my son. I was told over and
over that it was a phase, it was me, etc etc but when he was 6 1/2 I
had had enough. My second child was 2 1/2 and STILL wasn't showing
any of the same characteristics. I would classify my son
as 'tortured' in that time.
He wouldn't go to the extent that you mention with destroying but he
did rip curtain rods out of the wall, break toys, put a doorknob
through the wall, self punish etc etc. I will say my husband and I
were at a loss. There were many tactics we took as far as parenting
him that did NOT work. I also took him to a chiropractor, a
kinesthesiologist, and a cranial sacral therapist. I went, mostly in
consultation, to a child psychologist. I ~wanted~ more than anything
to help my son.
I could describe the therapies we used but I think you'd be better
off googling them. He became less angry and rageful over time. He
also stopped having headaches weekly ( 2-3xs), stopped having that
wet spot in the front of his pants all the time, and stopped this
random vomiting he'd do in the morning sometimes.
Unschooling has helped him TREMENDOUSLY. He's more open and loving.
Definately feels that I'm on HIS side now where I just don't know if
he felt that before. He's also older and can be reasoned with better
but he has not destroyed anything in anger in years. YAY! He was
also diagnosed with anxiety and depression (and ADHD for the record,
oh and Oppositional Defiance Disorder ~which I would not accept) and
is on medication to help him with his depression and anxiety.
We've had him home for 1 1/2 yrs. Not going to school helps a lot
too. For the record, he liked school and the teachers liked him. He
never acted out in school. It was the social condtions and the bully
situation that made us quit.
I can sympathize with you. Many times no one WANTS to give you a
break b/c you, and they, never know when a rage may occur. We do use
Bach's Rescue Remedy (when I remember!) and it always seems to
help.. ~reminding me that it may long overdue to take that out
again, helps me too! ~ FYI~ it's very intense tasting, IMO, and we
just rub it on the back of our neck or wrists.
My son would go blind in a rage too. I guess thinking about it,
that's only a recent thing that seems to have let go... I wish you
the best. Get a break when you can to refuel. Keep a little journal
maybe, I do this, and write the sweet or cute things down. Those
moments can be forgotten when all you can recall are the rages.
Best of luck to you,
Warm regards,
Tonya in Auburn, MA
Christian 11.5
Rory 7.5
Alannah 3.5
> I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but itis
> for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade byme
> for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying eachcurtains
> other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing
> and scrubbing floors.while,
>
> She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she is angry, she
> wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into a room for a
> destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters', mine or herfathers),
> and then we find them later (mostly because she hides them ortries
> to hide it).
>
>
wuweimama
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
> KellyOH, those are Bach Flower remedies!! These help when nothing else
>
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
Kelly Weyd
Oh, Thank You so much. I am on (what seems like) an ever ending quest to find answers for my dauther........before she ends up being put on some serious Anti-Pychotic Drugs. The consensus of her Ped. Neuro is that she has Bipolar, Aspergers, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dygraphia and Sensory Processing Disorder. And of course the Neuro wants us to seek out those diagnoses with various Phychologists and Phychiatrists. Right now she has a huge yeast overgrowth (we are addressing that), and I have been told by my Holistic Dr. that she is allergic to wheat, gluten, corn and food dye. Actually we figured out years ago that she is not tolerant to corn or food dye. We are seeing some improvements with the GF diet, but it's not the whole answer. Have you ever done/or heard of Enzyme Therapy. That is what we are trying next. People swear that is has been a cure for their child's autism. So I figure why not give it a try. I am also all for going to a
Homeopath. I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Homeopath. I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
> KellyOH, those are Bach Flower remedies!! These help when nothing else
>
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2006 10:57:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kellmar98@... writes:
Have you ever done/or heard of Enzyme Therapy. That is what we are trying
next. People swear that is has been a cure for their child's autism.
**********
We use Houston enzymes and find them very helpful! We still have to watch
dairy, though.
Our homeopathy story is also great. My son started in May and although some
things are slow to change, the changes have been very positive. He is
becoming less reactive to foods.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellmar98@... writes:
Have you ever done/or heard of Enzyme Therapy. That is what we are trying
next. People swear that is has been a cure for their child's autism.
**********
We use Houston enzymes and find them very helpful! We still have to watch
dairy, though.
Our homeopathy story is also great. My son started in May and although some
things are slow to change, the changes have been very positive. He is
becoming less reactive to foods.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Weyd
Oh, that homepath website has a wealth of information on it, and we are actually in the process of trying some of the things on there with our Holistic Dr. That is a great site. Thank You again.
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< My question is where do you get the things you mentioned in the
bottom of your post for Anger and Calming? I have seen the Natural
Calm in the health food store. Are the other's also something I can
get in the health food store? Also do you know of a natural product
for impulsivity? Thank You.
> KellyOH, those are Bach Flower remedies!! These help when nothing else
>
will. You can choose according to needs. These are available at any
natural food store. Rescue Remedy, Elm, Cherry Plum, Beech are must
haves, imo. The links below have some remedy finder tools to help
select the most appropriate to one's needs. We have a bunch on hand
for varied situations. They just take the edge off of intensity, so
that coping can occur. They are not a panacea to exploring ways to
address underlying needs; but they do help to create a calmer state
for discussions, ime.
http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx
http://www.transformationaltools.com...nder/index.php
http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml
http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/3
However, we use classical homeopathy rather than acute.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm And, classical
homeopathy does help to address the digestive and immunology aspects
of food and behavior. I highly recommend considering it. I was leery
at first but am evangelical about homeopathy now. LOL
I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
Cherry Plum helps with "feeling rational when you fear losing
control". That seems to be useful in overwrought type situations such
as were described with intense anger.
Pat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Weyd
The Houston Enzymes are the ones I just ordered!
Kelly
Leslie530@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/16/2006 10:57:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kellmar98@... writes:
Have you ever done/or heard of Enzyme Therapy. That is what we are trying
next. People swear that is has been a cure for their child's autism.
**********
We use Houston enzymes and find them very helpful! We still have to watch
dairy, though.
Our homeopathy story is also great. My son started in May and although some
things are slow to change, the changes have been very positive. He is
becoming less reactive to foods.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
Leslie530@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/16/2006 10:57:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kellmar98@... writes:
Have you ever done/or heard of Enzyme Therapy. That is what we are trying
next. People swear that is has been a cure for their child's autism.
**********
We use Houston enzymes and find them very helpful! We still have to watch
dairy, though.
Our homeopathy story is also great. My son started in May and although some
things are slow to change, the changes have been very positive. He is
becoming less reactive to foods.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mara
Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2006 12:56:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mamadeluz@... writes:
Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
I'm sure his hair is gorgeous but boys (really all children) are so pure and
angelic and beautiful looking that they almost look feminine if they have
long hair. The people who are saying hurtful things to you over their heads are
really insensitive, but that's just how the world can be sometimes. It sucks
and I am sorry about it :-( I think the easy solution would be to cut their
hair so that they clearly look like boys. I didn't read past posts but maybe
your 5 year old insists that he not get his hair cut? If this is the case,
then of course, leave it long until he gets so sick of the comments that he
wants it cut. Or maybe he will start making his own comments back and he will
start to not care about what people say? But from what I understood, the
decision not to cut was yours, and to me, that would be like dressing your son in
a skirt. Its kind of mean. Of course, both my boys wore my daughters clothing
while they were toddlers (sometimes IN PUBLIC) but it was what they wanted
to do, just a stage, no biggie. I think it would have been entirely different
had I encouraged it. Though pirates and princes, rock stars and Jesus all
had long hair, traditionally in our society men go short. Also, when you are a
manly rock star or a pirate you have facial hair and muscles and look really
obviously like a man in other ways so mistakes aren't made about gender. A
friend of mine had a daughter who was undergoing chemo and didn't want to wear
wigs until about the 10th time she was mistaken as a boy. After that, she
decided wigs would make her feel better about herself. Kids don't want to be
singled out as being different. It hurts their feelings.
Hope that helps,
Adriana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamadeluz@... writes:
Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
I'm sure his hair is gorgeous but boys (really all children) are so pure and
angelic and beautiful looking that they almost look feminine if they have
long hair. The people who are saying hurtful things to you over their heads are
really insensitive, but that's just how the world can be sometimes. It sucks
and I am sorry about it :-( I think the easy solution would be to cut their
hair so that they clearly look like boys. I didn't read past posts but maybe
your 5 year old insists that he not get his hair cut? If this is the case,
then of course, leave it long until he gets so sick of the comments that he
wants it cut. Or maybe he will start making his own comments back and he will
start to not care about what people say? But from what I understood, the
decision not to cut was yours, and to me, that would be like dressing your son in
a skirt. Its kind of mean. Of course, both my boys wore my daughters clothing
while they were toddlers (sometimes IN PUBLIC) but it was what they wanted
to do, just a stage, no biggie. I think it would have been entirely different
had I encouraged it. Though pirates and princes, rock stars and Jesus all
had long hair, traditionally in our society men go short. Also, when you are a
manly rock star or a pirate you have facial hair and muscles and look really
obviously like a man in other ways so mistakes aren't made about gender. A
friend of mine had a daughter who was undergoing chemo and didn't want to wear
wigs until about the 10th time she was mistaken as a boy. After that, she
decided wigs would make her feel better about herself. Kids don't want to be
singled out as being different. It hurts their feelings.
Hope that helps,
Adriana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
understand with babies, a bit -- until his first haircut, I was often
asked "how old is she" about my son -- but to go on and on about that,
with the child present who is perfectly capable of understanding that
- well, gee, lady, you have the tact of a man! (Just kidding - but if
the man was my father, that might be true!)
Perhaps if you say something like "He is gorgeous, and I'm sure he
will be such a handsome man when he grows up -- a real heartbreaker"
-- something like that. Alternatively, "Why would you harp on that,
in his presence, when you already know he is a boy?" But I tend to
use a positive approach -- but a different spin on the person's words,
and your son will view it more positively, hopefully.
Linda
>I am totally astonished that people would be that rude! I can
> Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
> disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
> some womans going on and on about his looks at a
> museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
> says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
> they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
> like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
> times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
> (when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
> as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
> then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
> He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
> pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
> wants to be a boy.
> Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
> (parents) to say to people?
> My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
> Thanks in advance.
> Mara
>
understand with babies, a bit -- until his first haircut, I was often
asked "how old is she" about my son -- but to go on and on about that,
with the child present who is perfectly capable of understanding that
- well, gee, lady, you have the tact of a man! (Just kidding - but if
the man was my father, that might be true!)
Perhaps if you say something like "He is gorgeous, and I'm sure he
will be such a handsome man when he grows up -- a real heartbreaker"
-- something like that. Alternatively, "Why would you harp on that,
in his presence, when you already know he is a boy?" But I tend to
use a positive approach -- but a different spin on the person's words,
and your son will view it more positively, hopefully.
Linda
Meridith Richardson
Anyone Unschooling in the Palm Coast area of Fla? I
spend my time in two different areas of Fla.
--- Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...>
wrote:
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spend my time in two different areas of Fla.
--- Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...>
wrote:
> Hi Cara,__________________________________________________
>
> We are relatively new to unschooling too (about a
> year or so) but
> I've been in a place similiar to yours with my
> oldest (who is now 11
> 1/2)
> When he was little, we were very controlling too. I
> could easily
> ramble here but will try to keep my thoughts a
> little organized!
>
> I knew something wasn't 'right' with my son. I was
> told over and
> over that it was a phase, it was me, etc etc but
> when he was 6 1/2 I
> had had enough. My second child was 2 1/2 and STILL
> wasn't showing
> any of the same characteristics. I would classify my
> son
> as 'tortured' in that time.
>
> He wouldn't go to the extent that you mention with
> destroying but he
> did rip curtain rods out of the wall, break toys,
> put a doorknob
> through the wall, self punish etc etc. I will say my
> husband and I
> were at a loss. There were many tactics we took as
> far as parenting
> him that did NOT work. I also took him to a
> chiropractor, a
> kinesthesiologist, and a cranial sacral therapist. I
> went, mostly in
> consultation, to a child psychologist. I ~wanted~
> more than anything
> to help my son.
>
> I could describe the therapies we used but I think
> you'd be better
> off googling them. He became less angry and rageful
> over time. He
> also stopped having headaches weekly ( 2-3xs),
> stopped having that
> wet spot in the front of his pants all the time, and
> stopped this
> random vomiting he'd do in the morning sometimes.
>
> Unschooling has helped him TREMENDOUSLY. He's more
> open and loving.
> Definately feels that I'm on HIS side now where I
> just don't know if
> he felt that before. He's also older and can be
> reasoned with better
> but he has not destroyed anything in anger in years.
> YAY! He was
> also diagnosed with anxiety and depression (and ADHD
> for the record,
> oh and Oppositional Defiance Disorder ~which I would
> not accept) and
> is on medication to help him with his depression and
> anxiety.
>
> We've had him home for 1 1/2 yrs. Not going to
> school helps a lot
> too. For the record, he liked school and the
> teachers liked him. He
> never acted out in school. It was the social
> condtions and the bully
> situation that made us quit.
>
> I can sympathize with you. Many times no one WANTS
> to give you a
> break b/c you, and they, never know when a rage may
> occur. We do use
> Bach's Rescue Remedy (when I remember!) and it
> always seems to
> help.. ~reminding me that it may long overdue to
> take that out
> again, helps me too! ~ FYI~ it's very intense
> tasting, IMO, and we
> just rub it on the back of our neck or wrists.
>
> My son would go blind in a rage too. I guess
> thinking about it,
> that's only a recent thing that seems to have let
> go... I wish you
> the best. Get a break when you can to refuel. Keep a
> little journal
> maybe, I do this, and write the sweet or cute things
> down. Those
> moments can be forgotten when all you can recall are
> the rages.
>
> Best of luck to you,
> Warm regards,
> Tonya in Auburn, MA
> Christian 11.5
> Rory 7.5
> Alannah 3.5
>
> > I guess it may not be a big thing for others on
> the list, but it
> is
> > for me. Especially when things like the curtains
> were handmade by
> me
> > for our home. I would much rather spend our time
> enjoying each
> > other, going places, instead of repainting walls,
> re-sewing
> curtains
> > and scrubbing floors.
> >
> > She doesn't want to talk about her anger while she
> is angry, she
> > wants to be left alone, and she usually goes into
> a room for a
> while,
> > destroys things that aren't hers (her sisters',
> mine or her
> fathers),
> > and then we find them later (mostly because she
> hides them or
> tries
> > to hide it).
> >
> >
>
>
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Kelly Weyd
You could always use the very shocking, blunt approach. He is not a girl, HE HAS A PENIS! That should shut them up. OK, maybe it's not the best answer, but funny anyway.
Kelly
Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
Both my boys get this response a lot. I find it
disrespectful when for example my 5 y.o. says (after
some womans going on and on about his looks at a
museum and what a pretty princess he was etc.) he
says, and I am a king, not a princess. Then sometimes
they still go on saying to me, well, he looks so much
like a girl, totally talking oever his head. Often
times we have told people quietly that he was a boy
(when they started to say 'she' or something the like)
as to avaoid him comstantly having to hear this, but
then they speak loadly about his 'girly' looks again.
He thinks he looks like a knight with is long hair (or
pirate etc.) and although he loves girls, he still
wants to be a boy.
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
My 2 y. o. gets the same response...
Thanks in advance.
Mara
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jane doe
--- Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
My son got this ALL the time way beyond his 10th
birthday. People STILL fawn over his gorgeous curls
and long lashes but there is no doubt he's a boy
anymore (he's 5'8" and 180 lbs). My method was more to
head them off at the pass... and I would tell them
that I too thought he had the most amazing hair and
lashes and that I was jealous of him myself when they
brought the subject up. I always used his name
(Steven) so there was no denying I was talking about a
boy. Sometimes I think people keep talking because
they are embarrassed that they made a mistake, somehow
they think they can talk their way into making it
sound better. I know it is something I've been guilty
of a time or two.
His sage words of advice (he's 13) are "to ignore it
or try and turn it into a joke." Not much advice but
talking to him I realize he's forgotten all about how
upset it used to make him! He tells me he is "not
traumatized". Maybe the best answer is to just let
them handle it for themselves in a way that makes them
feel comfortable.
ELISA
We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone
We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa
__________________________________________________
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My son got this ALL the time way beyond his 10th
birthday. People STILL fawn over his gorgeous curls
and long lashes but there is no doubt he's a boy
anymore (he's 5'8" and 180 lbs). My method was more to
head them off at the pass... and I would tell them
that I too thought he had the most amazing hair and
lashes and that I was jealous of him myself when they
brought the subject up. I always used his name
(Steven) so there was no denying I was talking about a
boy. Sometimes I think people keep talking because
they are embarrassed that they made a mistake, somehow
they think they can talk their way into making it
sound better. I know it is something I've been guilty
of a time or two.
His sage words of advice (he's 13) are "to ignore it
or try and turn it into a joke." Not much advice but
talking to him I realize he's forgotten all about how
upset it used to make him! He tells me he is "not
traumatized". Maybe the best answer is to just let
them handle it for themselves in a way that makes them
feel comfortable.
ELISA
We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone
We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa
__________________________________________________
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wuweimama
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we
are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of
alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach
before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of
putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
(subjective) mental health diagnoses. Watch the video in the first
link. It is controversial and thought provoking. The second link is
the Anne Ohman's article "I AM WHAT I AM". She is an inspirational
unschooler who staunchly advocates embracing our children for being
exactly who they are. She owns the ShineWithUnschooling yahoogroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/?yguid=287472904
Currently, on list, we are having a long discussion related to labels
and honoring our children's hearts.
Many of the following resources are associated with autism, ADHD and
other ASD/SPD. I have heard positive reports about enzymes; however,
evidently, they cause some people a LOT of abdominal discomfort and
distress. A couple of the links are about alternative resources which
are FAR FAR FAR from consent based interventions. So, consider the
invasiveness of some of the suggestions. It is all quite overwhelming
to determine what helps, except to observe and solicit your child's
input, imo. We live consensually, so imposing medical care against our
son's will is not something we would consider, except in a life
threatening event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FotGP0fcg
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/anneo/I_Am_What_I_Am.htm
http://borntoexplore.org/
Here are some additional resources about the subjectiveness of the
ADHD diagnosis. Mostly, I hope that you rely on your heart for knowing
what your daughter needs, not "experts".
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_breeding.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/david_keirsey.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/thomas_armstrong.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...2275474/ncp-20
http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/
http://www.docdiller.com/
http://www.home.att.net/~fred-alden
http://www.wildestcolts.com/
Here is a link about a friend's journey with her gifted child who was
labelled ADHD. http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/family/our_journey.htm
Here are a few more resources: www.visualspatial.org (Upside-Down
Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner) Apparently, this is a huge
variable in misdiagnosing ADHD, due to the varied processing of data
presented, a person may *appear* to be delayed or confused by the
information in a "distractable" manner. They are actually processing
data in a multi-step process, ie. with more intellectual processing,
not less, as it might appear.
www.hsperson.com (The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron) The
author recognizes the *gift* of acute awareness of other's emotions
and the challenges that this creates. It allows my dh to be an
empathic and effective manager and negotiator, for instance.
T.Armstrong has written several books about ADHD also. I don't know
his work; but have heard this from friends.
ADHD Drug Free (it's a yahoo group)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADHD_DrugFree/
Autism Spectum and Mercury-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
Enzymes and Autism-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/
Homeopathy and ADHD
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ADDthruAUTISM/
Here are a few more resources that I have learned about:
http://www.ablechild.org/ Able Child: Parents for label and drug free
education.
David Keirsey, author of one of the articles which the
naturalchild.org linked to, apparently has written some very cool
books about personality types- a personality type is still a label,
but it's a non-pathologising one, designed to foster better insight
and understanding into what makes an individual's clock tick.
Garret LoPorto's "The Da Vinci Method" is targeted at both adults and
children who are likely to get the ADD/ADHD label stuck onto them and
provides an alternative perspective focusing on the positive traits
and non-medical ways of engaging those.
www.davincimethod.com
Often, "giftedness" and behavioral labels go hand in hand in
asynchronistic development. Here is a recent thread about the
irrelevance of either of these labels in the unschooling environment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/message/19349
I hope that some of these resources help you to see alternatives that
bring peace to your family. A major component to unschooling is
trusting that our children will develop and learn in the direction and
rate to which they need. Many behavioral evaluations and labels are
based upon external judgments of a child against some "normal" to
which unique and passionate people don't "fit". Coming to accept and
trust that We Are Exactly Who We Need To Be, helps to diminish our
attachment to "expert's" opinions.
HTH, Pat
wrote:
<< I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we
are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of
alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach
before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of
putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
> KellyKelly, here are a bunch of links to alternative resources for similar
>
(subjective) mental health diagnoses. Watch the video in the first
link. It is controversial and thought provoking. The second link is
the Anne Ohman's article "I AM WHAT I AM". She is an inspirational
unschooler who staunchly advocates embracing our children for being
exactly who they are. She owns the ShineWithUnschooling yahoogroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/?yguid=287472904
Currently, on list, we are having a long discussion related to labels
and honoring our children's hearts.
Many of the following resources are associated with autism, ADHD and
other ASD/SPD. I have heard positive reports about enzymes; however,
evidently, they cause some people a LOT of abdominal discomfort and
distress. A couple of the links are about alternative resources which
are FAR FAR FAR from consent based interventions. So, consider the
invasiveness of some of the suggestions. It is all quite overwhelming
to determine what helps, except to observe and solicit your child's
input, imo. We live consensually, so imposing medical care against our
son's will is not something we would consider, except in a life
threatening event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FotGP0fcg
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/anneo/I_Am_What_I_Am.htm
http://borntoexplore.org/
Here are some additional resources about the subjectiveness of the
ADHD diagnosis. Mostly, I hope that you rely on your heart for knowing
what your daughter needs, not "experts".
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_breeding.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/david_keirsey.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/thomas_armstrong.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...2275474/ncp-20
http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/
http://www.docdiller.com/
http://www.home.att.net/~fred-alden
http://www.wildestcolts.com/
Here is a link about a friend's journey with her gifted child who was
labelled ADHD. http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/family/our_journey.htm
Here are a few more resources: www.visualspatial.org (Upside-Down
Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner) Apparently, this is a huge
variable in misdiagnosing ADHD, due to the varied processing of data
presented, a person may *appear* to be delayed or confused by the
information in a "distractable" manner. They are actually processing
data in a multi-step process, ie. with more intellectual processing,
not less, as it might appear.
www.hsperson.com (The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron) The
author recognizes the *gift* of acute awareness of other's emotions
and the challenges that this creates. It allows my dh to be an
empathic and effective manager and negotiator, for instance.
T.Armstrong has written several books about ADHD also. I don't know
his work; but have heard this from friends.
ADHD Drug Free (it's a yahoo group)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADHD_DrugFree/
Autism Spectum and Mercury-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
Enzymes and Autism-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/
Homeopathy and ADHD
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ADDthruAUTISM/
Here are a few more resources that I have learned about:
http://www.ablechild.org/ Able Child: Parents for label and drug free
education.
David Keirsey, author of one of the articles which the
naturalchild.org linked to, apparently has written some very cool
books about personality types- a personality type is still a label,
but it's a non-pathologising one, designed to foster better insight
and understanding into what makes an individual's clock tick.
Garret LoPorto's "The Da Vinci Method" is targeted at both adults and
children who are likely to get the ADD/ADHD label stuck onto them and
provides an alternative perspective focusing on the positive traits
and non-medical ways of engaging those.
www.davincimethod.com
Often, "giftedness" and behavioral labels go hand in hand in
asynchronistic development. Here is a recent thread about the
irrelevance of either of these labels in the unschooling environment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/message/19349
I hope that some of these resources help you to see alternatives that
bring peace to your family. A major component to unschooling is
trusting that our children will develop and learn in the direction and
rate to which they need. Many behavioral evaluations and labels are
based upon external judgments of a child against some "normal" to
which unique and passionate people don't "fit". Coming to accept and
trust that We Are Exactly Who We Need To Be, helps to diminish our
attachment to "expert's" opinions.
HTH, Pat
wuweimama
Here are some concrete suggestions from another thread that I posted on:
1. Fill love tank. See "The Five Love Languages for Children". The
author suggests that the five are: acts of service, physical touch,
gifts, affirmation, quality time. We generally value all; but there is
usually a primary 'love language' and each adult or child feels more
full of love, or empty of love, if their love language isn't being
"spoken" to them consistently, daily.
2. Eye contact when speaking with child.
3. Validation of feelings. The "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, How
to Listen so Kids will Talk" discusses pratical communication skills
for increasing the dialogue effectiveness.
4. "Siblings Without Rivalry" helps discuss allowing the "ugly"
feelings about a sibling or situation to be voiced and validated. This
helps the child work through them so that he can move away from
carrying them alone. And then he can gain perspective once these are
not such a heavy burden.
5. "The Explosive Child" discusses 'picking your battles'. Basically,
it has a "Basket" criteria of degrees of battle. Basket "A" is safety
issues. These are critical to health and worth making an issue over.
Basket "C" are little things that won't matter tomorrow, next week or
next month. These are ignored and dealt with without creating an
issue/battle or power struggle.
Basket "B" are the important but negotiable items which need buy-in.
Most things are here. But the issue is to determine 'Is this critical
to the family's happiness *today* to create a power struggle?' What
other ways can this issue be tackled together as a team?
6. Food intolerances: dairy causes aggression in our son. We see his
behavior change about one hour after consumption and lasts 1-6 hours
depending on quantity consumed. Also, high fructose corn syrup (not
sugar), artificial colors: red and yellow. See "The Feingold Diet"
on-line.
7. 'Meet the underlying needs' is my mantra. Focus on working to solve
the need, rather than focusing on eliminating the behavior
I strongly and firstly recommend The Explosive Child for tools of
"choosing your battles". It can change the dynamics to just essential
safety issues, instead of having everything be a battle. I forgot
about high fructose corn syrup. Ds can NOT consume this at all without
reaction. Occasionally he does. Then, we all have a very tough several
hours. Eliminate this from your lives to the extent possible; it is in
everything. It is seriously associated with violent and aggressive
behaviors, ime.
A friend's nephew had similar violent bouts and after one week (by
consent) on the Feingold diet he willingly continued it because he
felt SOOOO much better.
Hope this additional info is helpful.
Pat
1. Fill love tank. See "The Five Love Languages for Children". The
author suggests that the five are: acts of service, physical touch,
gifts, affirmation, quality time. We generally value all; but there is
usually a primary 'love language' and each adult or child feels more
full of love, or empty of love, if their love language isn't being
"spoken" to them consistently, daily.
2. Eye contact when speaking with child.
3. Validation of feelings. The "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, How
to Listen so Kids will Talk" discusses pratical communication skills
for increasing the dialogue effectiveness.
4. "Siblings Without Rivalry" helps discuss allowing the "ugly"
feelings about a sibling or situation to be voiced and validated. This
helps the child work through them so that he can move away from
carrying them alone. And then he can gain perspective once these are
not such a heavy burden.
5. "The Explosive Child" discusses 'picking your battles'. Basically,
it has a "Basket" criteria of degrees of battle. Basket "A" is safety
issues. These are critical to health and worth making an issue over.
Basket "C" are little things that won't matter tomorrow, next week or
next month. These are ignored and dealt with without creating an
issue/battle or power struggle.
Basket "B" are the important but negotiable items which need buy-in.
Most things are here. But the issue is to determine 'Is this critical
to the family's happiness *today* to create a power struggle?' What
other ways can this issue be tackled together as a team?
6. Food intolerances: dairy causes aggression in our son. We see his
behavior change about one hour after consumption and lasts 1-6 hours
depending on quantity consumed. Also, high fructose corn syrup (not
sugar), artificial colors: red and yellow. See "The Feingold Diet"
on-line.
7. 'Meet the underlying needs' is my mantra. Focus on working to solve
the need, rather than focusing on eliminating the behavior
I strongly and firstly recommend The Explosive Child for tools of
"choosing your battles". It can change the dynamics to just essential
safety issues, instead of having everything be a battle. I forgot
about high fructose corn syrup. Ds can NOT consume this at all without
reaction. Occasionally he does. Then, we all have a very tough several
hours. Eliminate this from your lives to the extent possible; it is in
everything. It is seriously associated with violent and aggressive
behaviors, ime.
A friend's nephew had similar violent bouts and after one week (by
consent) on the Feingold diet he willingly continued it because he
felt SOOOO much better.
Hope this additional info is helpful.
Pat
Deb Lewis
***I guess it may not be a big thing for others on the list, but it is
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.***
Why would you think it's wouldn't a big thing for others here? Destruction
is not cool. The suffering of a child is not cool.
Your hand made curtains should not be more important than your daughter.
And as hard as it might be to see this, the destruction is not a personal
attack on you and your curtains. I see a whole slew of people are posting
about diet and whatnot but regardless of red dye number kazillion your
daughter
is trying to communicate with you.
An eight year old might seem like a big enough person, big enough to behave,
big enough to talk about what's bothering her, but eight is young.
Eight short years on the planet. Many, many adults cannot communicate
without anger and it's unrealistic to
expect that every eight year old should have the skills and ability to
communicate big emotions through peaceful discussion. Some kids can. Some
can't. There's no magic age for insightful, thoughtful communication.
You probably understand there's no magic age for reading. Some kids read at
four or five, some kids read at twelve. There's no magic age for learning
to use the toilet. Some kid are dry all night at three, some still wet the
bed when they're ten. There's not a magic age when our kids have all the
skills and abilities to express all their emotions with words.
You said it started around the time of, or since your move.
Some things to think about would be; Why you moved - Did your daughter
want to move? What did she leave behind when you moved? What did she have
to give up? How much time have you had with her since the move? Could
someone be hurting her? How well has she adjusted to your new place? Do
other people in the family have quick tempers.
Is she missing a dear friend? Do her things get thrown away or taken away
from her as a form of discipline?
These are not necessarily things you need to answer on the list, just things
to think about as you try to understand what is causing your daughter so
much distress.
Your daughter does not want to be destructive. She wants to be happy and
have a happy life. She wants you to "hear" her
and it's your job to figure out what she is trying to tell you. Don't take
it personally. The most important thing is not to stop the behavior
because your tired of ruined curtains or walls or floors. The most
important thing should be finding the cause of your daughter's big emotional
turmoil and helping her. The behaviors will resolve when her needs are
met.
Sometimes when a person feels like too many things about their life are out
of their control they find one thing they can control. Maybe she feels like
the only time she has any power in her life and in your family is when she's
being destructive.
Can you go away with her? Just with her for four or five days - go to a
different town, stay in a motel with a pool, spend time with her and see if
she finds a way to tell you what's wrong. Tell her you're worried about how
sad she's been. Tell her you want to help. She needs you to be with her.
Spend time with her doing things that are important to her.
I understand the trend of looking for all manner of outside forces (food,
chemicals, this, that) or syndromes or disorders to explain behavior we
don't understand but I caution against any limiting or changing of her
access to the things she's familiar with. She's been through a move and a
lot of change already. The more you mess with what she knows and loves the
more stress you add to her world.
Deb Lewis
for me. Especially when things like the curtains were handmade by me
for our home. I would much rather spend our time enjoying each
other, going places, instead of repainting walls, re-sewing curtains
and scrubbing floors.***
Why would you think it's wouldn't a big thing for others here? Destruction
is not cool. The suffering of a child is not cool.
Your hand made curtains should not be more important than your daughter.
And as hard as it might be to see this, the destruction is not a personal
attack on you and your curtains. I see a whole slew of people are posting
about diet and whatnot but regardless of red dye number kazillion your
daughter
is trying to communicate with you.
An eight year old might seem like a big enough person, big enough to behave,
big enough to talk about what's bothering her, but eight is young.
Eight short years on the planet. Many, many adults cannot communicate
without anger and it's unrealistic to
expect that every eight year old should have the skills and ability to
communicate big emotions through peaceful discussion. Some kids can. Some
can't. There's no magic age for insightful, thoughtful communication.
You probably understand there's no magic age for reading. Some kids read at
four or five, some kids read at twelve. There's no magic age for learning
to use the toilet. Some kid are dry all night at three, some still wet the
bed when they're ten. There's not a magic age when our kids have all the
skills and abilities to express all their emotions with words.
You said it started around the time of, or since your move.
Some things to think about would be; Why you moved - Did your daughter
want to move? What did she leave behind when you moved? What did she have
to give up? How much time have you had with her since the move? Could
someone be hurting her? How well has she adjusted to your new place? Do
other people in the family have quick tempers.
Is she missing a dear friend? Do her things get thrown away or taken away
from her as a form of discipline?
These are not necessarily things you need to answer on the list, just things
to think about as you try to understand what is causing your daughter so
much distress.
Your daughter does not want to be destructive. She wants to be happy and
have a happy life. She wants you to "hear" her
and it's your job to figure out what she is trying to tell you. Don't take
it personally. The most important thing is not to stop the behavior
because your tired of ruined curtains or walls or floors. The most
important thing should be finding the cause of your daughter's big emotional
turmoil and helping her. The behaviors will resolve when her needs are
met.
Sometimes when a person feels like too many things about their life are out
of their control they find one thing they can control. Maybe she feels like
the only time she has any power in her life and in your family is when she's
being destructive.
Can you go away with her? Just with her for four or five days - go to a
different town, stay in a motel with a pool, spend time with her and see if
she finds a way to tell you what's wrong. Tell her you're worried about how
sad she's been. Tell her you want to help. She needs you to be with her.
Spend time with her doing things that are important to her.
I understand the trend of looking for all manner of outside forces (food,
chemicals, this, that) or syndromes or disorders to explain behavior we
don't understand but I caution against any limiting or changing of her
access to the things she's familiar with. She's been through a move and a
lot of change already. The more you mess with what she knows and loves the
more stress you add to her world.
Deb Lewis
Alice Roddy
Here is a link to an interesting article on gut flora and neurological disorders. These ideas are new to me and I do not know if the author is correct or not. Certainly her thesis has profound implications.
http://www.behealthy.org.uk/gaps.pdf
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
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http://www.behealthy.org.uk/gaps.pdf
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
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Kelly Weyd
Yep, that article hit the nail on the head! Mariah came to us as a foster child at two months old. She was malnourished when she came to us, and had pink eye, thrush, horrible colic and stomach reflux. So you can see where we are going here.......she got off to a horrible start. And of course six years ago I did not know the things I know now. And right now she has the horrible yeast overgrowth, and is intolerant to a number of foods. Yet she is about to be diagnosed with Bipolar, AS, OCD, anxiety disorder, SPD, and Dygraphia. Like I said the article was dead on. This is why I am going to try Enzyme Therapy and see if we can improve her digestive system. But I don't want her on anti-phychotic meds until I have addressed all her gut issues, because all of these problems may go away if they are addressed. Thank You so much for sending this article. It's definately a keeper.
Kelly
Alice Roddy <amar0514412000@...> wrote:
Here is a link to an interesting article on gut flora and neurological disorders. These ideas are new to me and I do not know if the author is correct or not. Certainly her thesis has profound implications.
http://www.behealthy.org.uk/gaps.pdf
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kelly
Alice Roddy <amar0514412000@...> wrote:
Here is a link to an interesting article on gut flora and neurological disorders. These ideas are new to me and I do not know if the author is correct or not. Certainly her thesis has profound implications.
http://www.behealthy.org.uk/gaps.pdf
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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wuweimama
>(food,> chemicals, this, that) or syndromes or disorders to explain
> I understand the trend of looking for all manner of outside forces
behavior we> don't understand but I caution against any limiting or
changing of her > access to the things she's familiar with. She's
been through a move and a > lot of change already. The more you mess
with what she knows and loves the > more stress you add to her world.
>***I really agree with all of Deb's post also. We found that ADDING
> Deb Lewis
>
alternatives that were equal and preferable allowed foods with
additives to become obsolete. That took time and reading every label
to find MORE alternatives, not fewer!
Pat
Kelly Weyd
Oh, thank you so much. You are a wealth of information. I actually used to belong to the ADHD Drug Free Group, but then I left when I realized ADHD was not the right diagnoses. And I just joined the Enzymes and Autism board. Thanks Again.
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we
are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of
alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach
before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of
putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
(subjective) mental health diagnoses. Watch the video in the first
link. It is controversial and thought provoking. The second link is
the Anne Ohman's article "I AM WHAT I AM". She is an inspirational
unschooler who staunchly advocates embracing our children for being
exactly who they are. She owns the ShineWithUnschooling yahoogroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/?yguid=287472904
Currently, on list, we are having a long discussion related to labels
and honoring our children's hearts.
Many of the following resources are associated with autism, ADHD and
other ASD/SPD. I have heard positive reports about enzymes; however,
evidently, they cause some people a LOT of abdominal discomfort and
distress. A couple of the links are about alternative resources which
are FAR FAR FAR from consent based interventions. So, consider the
invasiveness of some of the suggestions. It is all quite overwhelming
to determine what helps, except to observe and solicit your child's
input, imo. We live consensually, so imposing medical care against our
son's will is not something we would consider, except in a life
threatening event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FotGP0fcg
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/anneo/I_Am_What_I_Am.htm
http://borntoexplore.org/
Here are some additional resources about the subjectiveness of the
ADHD diagnosis. Mostly, I hope that you rely on your heart for knowing
what your daughter needs, not "experts".
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_breeding.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/david_keirsey.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/thomas_armstrong.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...2275474/ncp-20
http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/
http://www.docdiller.com/
http://www.home.att.net/~fred-alden
http://www.wildestcolts.com/
Here is a link about a friend's journey with her gifted child who was
labelled ADHD. http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/family/our_journey.htm
Here are a few more resources: www.visualspatial.org (Upside-Down
Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner) Apparently, this is a huge
variable in misdiagnosing ADHD, due to the varied processing of data
presented, a person may *appear* to be delayed or confused by the
information in a "distractable" manner. They are actually processing
data in a multi-step process, ie. with more intellectual processing,
not less, as it might appear.
www.hsperson.com (The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron) The
author recognizes the *gift* of acute awareness of other's emotions
and the challenges that this creates. It allows my dh to be an
empathic and effective manager and negotiator, for instance.
T.Armstrong has written several books about ADHD also. I don't know
his work; but have heard this from friends.
ADHD Drug Free (it's a yahoo group)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADHD_DrugFree/
Autism Spectum and Mercury-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
Enzymes and Autism-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/
Homeopathy and ADHD
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ADDthruAUTISM/
Here are a few more resources that I have learned about:
http://www.ablechild.org/ Able Child: Parents for label and drug free
education.
David Keirsey, author of one of the articles which the
naturalchild.org linked to, apparently has written some very cool
books about personality types- a personality type is still a label,
but it's a non-pathologising one, designed to foster better insight
and understanding into what makes an individual's clock tick.
Garret LoPorto's "The Da Vinci Method" is targeted at both adults and
children who are likely to get the ADD/ADHD label stuck onto them and
provides an alternative perspective focusing on the positive traits
and non-medical ways of engaging those.
www.davincimethod.com
Often, "giftedness" and behavioral labels go hand in hand in
asynchronistic development. Here is a recent thread about the
irrelevance of either of these labels in the unschooling environment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/message/19349
I hope that some of these resources help you to see alternatives that
bring peace to your family. A major component to unschooling is
trusting that our children will develop and learn in the direction and
rate to which they need. Many behavioral evaluations and labels are
based upon external judgments of a child against some "normal" to
which unique and passionate people don't "fit". Coming to accept and
trust that We Are Exactly Who We Need To Be, helps to diminish our
attachment to "expert's" opinions.
HTH, Pat
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
<< I am not at all opposed to doing the alternative thing, since we
are seeing a Holistic Dr. I have to seek all of this type of
alternative/supplements/diet stuff out, and exhaust that approach
before the very serious anti-pychotic drugs. I am really scared of
putting my 6 year old on such drugs. Thanks once again.
> KellyKelly, here are a bunch of links to alternative resources for similar
>
(subjective) mental health diagnoses. Watch the video in the first
link. It is controversial and thought provoking. The second link is
the Anne Ohman's article "I AM WHAT I AM". She is an inspirational
unschooler who staunchly advocates embracing our children for being
exactly who they are. She owns the ShineWithUnschooling yahoogroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/?yguid=287472904
Currently, on list, we are having a long discussion related to labels
and honoring our children's hearts.
Many of the following resources are associated with autism, ADHD and
other ASD/SPD. I have heard positive reports about enzymes; however,
evidently, they cause some people a LOT of abdominal discomfort and
distress. A couple of the links are about alternative resources which
are FAR FAR FAR from consent based interventions. So, consider the
invasiveness of some of the suggestions. It is all quite overwhelming
to determine what helps, except to observe and solicit your child's
input, imo. We live consensually, so imposing medical care against our
son's will is not something we would consider, except in a life
threatening event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FotGP0fcg
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/anneo/I_Am_What_I_Am.htm
http://borntoexplore.org/
Here are some additional resources about the subjectiveness of the
ADHD diagnosis. Mostly, I hope that you rely on your heart for knowing
what your daughter needs, not "experts".
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_breeding.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/david_keirsey.html
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/thomas_armstrong.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...2275474/ncp-20
http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/
http://www.docdiller.com/
http://www.home.att.net/~fred-alden
http://www.wildestcolts.com/
Here is a link about a friend's journey with her gifted child who was
labelled ADHD. http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/family/our_journey.htm
Here are a few more resources: www.visualspatial.org (Upside-Down
Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner) Apparently, this is a huge
variable in misdiagnosing ADHD, due to the varied processing of data
presented, a person may *appear* to be delayed or confused by the
information in a "distractable" manner. They are actually processing
data in a multi-step process, ie. with more intellectual processing,
not less, as it might appear.
www.hsperson.com (The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron) The
author recognizes the *gift* of acute awareness of other's emotions
and the challenges that this creates. It allows my dh to be an
empathic and effective manager and negotiator, for instance.
T.Armstrong has written several books about ADHD also. I don't know
his work; but have heard this from friends.
ADHD Drug Free (it's a yahoo group)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADHD_DrugFree/
Autism Spectum and Mercury-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
Enzymes and Autism-ADHD is also addressed
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/
Homeopathy and ADHD
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ADDthruAUTISM/
Here are a few more resources that I have learned about:
http://www.ablechild.org/ Able Child: Parents for label and drug free
education.
David Keirsey, author of one of the articles which the
naturalchild.org linked to, apparently has written some very cool
books about personality types- a personality type is still a label,
but it's a non-pathologising one, designed to foster better insight
and understanding into what makes an individual's clock tick.
Garret LoPorto's "The Da Vinci Method" is targeted at both adults and
children who are likely to get the ADD/ADHD label stuck onto them and
provides an alternative perspective focusing on the positive traits
and non-medical ways of engaging those.
www.davincimethod.com
Often, "giftedness" and behavioral labels go hand in hand in
asynchronistic development. Here is a recent thread about the
irrelevance of either of these labels in the unschooling environment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/message/19349
I hope that some of these resources help you to see alternatives that
bring peace to your family. A major component to unschooling is
trusting that our children will develop and learn in the direction and
rate to which they need. Many behavioral evaluations and labels are
based upon external judgments of a child against some "normal" to
which unique and passionate people don't "fit". Coming to accept and
trust that We Are Exactly Who We Need To Be, helps to diminish our
attachment to "expert's" opinions.
HTH, Pat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: mamadeluz@...
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron has facial hair, so he's not mistaken anymore.
Duncan (10) has to deal with it a lot---plus he has the *prettiest*
hair!!!
He waves his hand dismissively and says, "Oh, I get that ALL the time!
My brother is 18 and has facial hair. But his hair isn't as long as
mine. As soon as I'm shaving you won't mistake me!" <G>
He IS (for the first time) discussing cutting it though---short! We've
talked about Locks of Love. I should go google them for info. It'll be
a big deal if he were to cut it. We'll see. He wavers weekly on whether
to do it or not.
Anyway---back to the questions: I always correct the...um...admirer <g>
and say "he" or "him" or "my son" when he's referred to as a girl.
Duncan doesn't always---depends on whether it's a one time deal or
whether the stranger is actually chatting. Like---waiters he'll correct
because he'll be talking with them again while we eat. Little old
ladies in check-out?---it depends.
We've talked a lot about why people make the mistake--and it's more
common with older people. My brother had long hair when he was 7-14, I
think. But that was waaay back in the 60's & 70's! It WAS uncommon to
see long hair on a boy in the South. Hippie freak! <g> Now it's rather
common. (At least at unschooling conferences! <bwg>)
The boys and I talk about being different or outside the norm. A LOT.
When you take a step like that, it's best to learn to deal with the
issues that come along with it. Duncan knows that cutting his hair
would reduce those comments. Right now, the length of his hair is worth
it. So he's really sweet and tolerant when mistaken for a girl. "It's
OK. Some of my best friends are girls." is one of his comebacks. <g>
Same with unschooling, really. It's outside the norm. I am VERY
pro-unschooling and anti-school, so I don't have any problem defending
our lifestyle in public or with strangers. But it works to my advantage
when we may be the only unschoolers someone meets to be the BEST
examples of unschooling/mindful parenting possible.
So for Duncan to be kind and respectful about comments on/responses to
his hair length is, to me, better than to be aggressive and rude back.
I think Duncan has that down-pat! <g>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
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From: mamadeluz@...
Does anyone have some good responses for him and us
(parents) to say to people?
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron has facial hair, so he's not mistaken anymore.
Duncan (10) has to deal with it a lot---plus he has the *prettiest*
hair!!!
He waves his hand dismissively and says, "Oh, I get that ALL the time!
My brother is 18 and has facial hair. But his hair isn't as long as
mine. As soon as I'm shaving you won't mistake me!" <G>
He IS (for the first time) discussing cutting it though---short! We've
talked about Locks of Love. I should go google them for info. It'll be
a big deal if he were to cut it. We'll see. He wavers weekly on whether
to do it or not.
Anyway---back to the questions: I always correct the...um...admirer <g>
and say "he" or "him" or "my son" when he's referred to as a girl.
Duncan doesn't always---depends on whether it's a one time deal or
whether the stranger is actually chatting. Like---waiters he'll correct
because he'll be talking with them again while we eat. Little old
ladies in check-out?---it depends.
We've talked a lot about why people make the mistake--and it's more
common with older people. My brother had long hair when he was 7-14, I
think. But that was waaay back in the 60's & 70's! It WAS uncommon to
see long hair on a boy in the South. Hippie freak! <g> Now it's rather
common. (At least at unschooling conferences! <bwg>)
The boys and I talk about being different or outside the norm. A LOT.
When you take a step like that, it's best to learn to deal with the
issues that come along with it. Duncan knows that cutting his hair
would reduce those comments. Right now, the length of his hair is worth
it. So he's really sweet and tolerant when mistaken for a girl. "It's
OK. Some of my best friends are girls." is one of his comebacks. <g>
Same with unschooling, really. It's outside the norm. I am VERY
pro-unschooling and anti-school, so I don't have any problem defending
our lifestyle in public or with strangers. But it works to my advantage
when we may be the only unschoolers someone meets to be the BEST
examples of unschooling/mindful parenting possible.
So for Duncan to be kind and respectful about comments on/responses to
his hair length is, to me, better than to be aggressive and rude back.
I think Duncan has that down-pat! <g>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Debra Rossing
My hubby wore his hair down to his shoulders for about 2 years (just cut
it this past summer) - he was posing for a sculptress friend who wanted
the contrasting textures of his silky long hair and his chest length
beard. When he wasn't sitting for the sculpture, he'd tie his hair back
with black or navy blue ties, set low at the nape of his neck a la
Thomas Jefferson. (though no one would think he was a woman with the
beard and his 6' 300 lb frame) Might your sons be willing to tie their
hair back a bit, and you can make an offhand comment about how your kids
are trying out the Thomas Jefferson hair style? Or, as someone said,
when there's a comment made, clearly and specifically say Yes, I really
love HIS hair when it's long - it's so soft and silky. Then "pass the
bean dip" - change the subject so they have to work really hard to make
those rude continuing comments. Or perhaps go all out and see if they
want to dye their hair in stripes or something really "in your face". I
just noticed that DS' hair is down to his neckline - it'll probably get
even longer since neither of my guys like cutting their hair in the
winter - it keeps them warm. DS might ask for a trim in the front area
to keep it out of his face, or he might not. Springtime (usually around
May) is haircut time, then they let it just grow the rest of the year
(maybe a small trim in July if the heat is being beastly).
Deb
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it this past summer) - he was posing for a sculptress friend who wanted
the contrasting textures of his silky long hair and his chest length
beard. When he wasn't sitting for the sculpture, he'd tie his hair back
with black or navy blue ties, set low at the nape of his neck a la
Thomas Jefferson. (though no one would think he was a woman with the
beard and his 6' 300 lb frame) Might your sons be willing to tie their
hair back a bit, and you can make an offhand comment about how your kids
are trying out the Thomas Jefferson hair style? Or, as someone said,
when there's a comment made, clearly and specifically say Yes, I really
love HIS hair when it's long - it's so soft and silky. Then "pass the
bean dip" - change the subject so they have to work really hard to make
those rude continuing comments. Or perhaps go all out and see if they
want to dye their hair in stripes or something really "in your face". I
just noticed that DS' hair is down to his neckline - it'll probably get
even longer since neither of my guys like cutting their hair in the
winter - it keeps them warm. DS might ask for a trim in the front area
to keep it out of his face, or he might not. Springtime (usually around
May) is haircut time, then they let it just grow the rest of the year
(maybe a small trim in July if the heat is being beastly).
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wuweimama
--- In [email protected], "wuweimama" <wuweimama@...>
wrote:
irritability, mental tension, impulsiveness.
Pat
wrote:
>I read that Impatiens (a Bach flower remedy) is beneficial for
> I don't know about a specific remedy for impulsivity. I'll check
> around and see if one of the Bach flower remedies mentions that.
irritability, mental tension, impulsiveness.
Pat