Ponderings from a newbie: 5yo’s learning

Tami

12 Dec 2006, at 6:25am

Hi..

I just joined this group a couple of days ago and haven't had a chance to read thru all the
posts yet, but I thought I would post. I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice or
encouragement or just putting my situation out here for others to comment on...

Brief background: I've planned on Homeschooling since before having kids; recently
became aware of unschooling during the past year. Due to certain situations, my son
started kindergarten at the public school this fall. Saw a lot of old issues I thought we had
gotten past resurface as well as new issues develope w/behavior, attitude, self-
confidence, etc. After 8 weeks, I convinced dh to let me remove ds from school, as well as
take an unschooling approach at home. But...he's somewhat skeptical about unschooling.

So...for the past many weeks we have not done any formal lessons, etc. at home. But...I've
been feeling lately like we really need to do some "schoolish" things, so I got out a few
things and sat down w/ds and explained what we needed to do. My 3yo son joined us and
followed directions perfectly; my 5yo followed directions up to a point and then veered off,
doing his own things with the materials I gave him. I explained several times what "we"
were trying to acomplish and what he needed to do next, and then he finally said, "I'm so
miserable! This is how I feel in school!"

Whoa.

Okay, so we stopped doing that and got out a dinosaur word search - (he's REALLY into
dinosaurs right now). After a few minutes of trying to work on that together, he again said
"I'm so miserable".

Okay, so now I'M frustrated. This is all very new to me. While I believe in and would like to
try an unschooling approach, I am not one of those moms who can "make every moment a
learning opportunity" (as I've read other people comment on other unschooling boards), so
I feel like he's missing out if I don't try to sit down and do some sort of "lessons" with him.
But it obviously wasn't working, because we were both getting frustrated and he wasn't
learning anything anyway.

I could feel myself starting to get annoyed and angry, because he wasn't doing his part in
my little scenario of having a "lesson" to fill my need of feeling like were accomplishing
something "educational". Fortunately, I caught myself in time and said "okay, this isn't
working". I then put on a two hour documentary from the Discovery Channel called
"Before the Dinosaus". (He really likes documentaries!?) After he watched it, I asked what
it was about. He basically described evolution to me: how life started off in the oceans,
how they turned to fishes, which turned into reptiles, which came up on land and
eventually turned into dinosaurs.

Well.

That was a heck of a lot more than he would have learned from my little dinosaur word
search.

Zack loves documentaries and he's actually learned an amazing amount from them. I
guess the thing I am struggling with is this: how much of his education should he get from
these types of programs? Is it okay if I'm not a very central figure in his education at this
young of an age? I have several skeptics in my family, and sometimes their attitude rubs
off on me...how can I fell comfortable with this process when it seems we're not really
doing anything "educational"? I have two other children younger than Zack, and many days
I still feel like I'm just operating in "survival" mode...which adds to my concern that I'm not
devoting enough time to helping Zack get what he needs...

Any thoughts/comments?

Tami

alisonslp

12 Dec 2006, at 9:09am

Tammy,

I don't have much time, but I wanted to welcome you. I am also very
new to this concept - well, actually, I researched it a few years ago
when my kids were toddlers, but decided to go the classical HS route
when Kindergarten rolled around and now I'm realizing (the past month)
that classical wasn't the best way for our family. So we are easing
into unschooling. I had alot of the same feelings you do but in a
very short time, I have realized just how much my children do learn
without sitting down and having it fed to them. I have always been
for independent learning - teach the child to teach himself. But what
this group (and a lot of reading about UN-ing) has shown me is that
children don't need to be taught to teach themselves. They already
know how - you just have to give them the time, space, and materials
THEY need or want - not what you think is a good idea... I'm still
dealing with some of these issues in my own head but I am trying not
to let it reflect in the way I ineract with my kids now...

Alison

Joanne

12 Dec 2006, at 9:31am

Hi Tami,

>>>>Any thoughts/comments?>>>>

Here's what I think and I speak from experience of having had to di
it myself...

YOU have to deschool yourself first. The thing that surprised me
about unschooling was, I had to shift my thinking FIRST. It wasn't
about my kids, it was about ME. (The next edition of Unschooling
Voices is on this very topic).

Here's some older posts on deschooling parents that I posted on my
blog, that may help you:

part one:
http://tinyurl.com/ymudas

part two:
http://tinyurl.com/yhpqor

There's also a link on one of those pages to Sandra's deschooling
for parents page.

Hope this helps!

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html

riasplace3

12 Dec 2006, at 10:16am

--- In [email protected], "Tami " <Tamicamp@...> wrote:

> Okay, so we stopped doing that and got out a dinosaur word search -

(he's REALLY into

> dinosaurs right now). After a few minutes of trying to work on that

together, he again said

> "I'm so miserable".
> Tami

I have to say...word searches are sometimes hard for little ones. My
9 yr. old still has trouble with them.
5 is SO little. If he's your oldest he might seem big, but in a few
years you'll look back and realize how tiny he is. (We've been
watching old home movies...well, 3 years ago..and it just brings it
all back how tiny they were just 3 years ago...they grow SO quickly!)
Just enjoy him. He'll be big and know more than you imagined in a few
years. And you'll miss these years.
Just my thoughts...
Ria

Christy Mahoney

12 Dec 2006, at 1:37pm

Hi Tami, and welcome. I'd encourage you to read as much as you can
about unschooling, here and at the links. You'll find all kinds of
stories about how kids learn.

First of all, if your son was in school for 8 weeks, he hasn't been
out very long since then. He obviously still has memories of how
miserable he was and probably won't want to do anything like what he
did in school. And some people (kids AND adults) will never ever
enjoy a word search. My daughter is nearly 12 now and has rarely
put anything on paper. She has never wanted a workbook or a word
search or anything of that sort. However, she is starting to write
a lot on the computer - stories & such. She loves to read and can
write amazingly well with correct grammar and all. And she's never
touched a workbook in her life! How can that be?

As far as you and your husband feeling comfortable with the notion
of unschooling, perhaps you could give yourself a certain amount of
time that you won't worry about "education". Tell yourself that you
won't worry about it for until he's six or something. Just have as
much fun with him and your little ones as you can for that amount of
time. Let him watch documentaries, find some dinosaur books and
toys, go to the park with the babies, whatever you can manage.
Then, when that amount of time is up, ask yourself how things are
going?

And try not to quiz him about what he's learned from what he's
watched or played or whatever. If he feels like it's a test, he may
come to dread even his beloved dinosaur show. As someone else
mentioned, he's only 5. That may seem big to you, but in most
states, kids are not required to attend school at that age. Here in
Washington, I don't even have to send a letter of intent until my
child is 8 years old.

If you or your husband have any more specific questions, I'm sure
we'd be happy to address those too.

-Christy M.

plaidpanties666

12 Dec 2006, at 6:37pm

--- In [email protected], "Tami " <Tamicamp@...>
wrote:

>> Okay, so now I'M frustrated. This is all very new to me. While I

believe in and would like to

> try an unschooling approach, I am not one of those moms who

can "make every moment a

> learning opportunity" (as I've read other people comment on other

unschooling boards)

It isn't so much a matter of "making every moment a learning
opportunity" as *seeing* that kids are learning all the time, and
being willing to help them. Here's what that looked like in our
house one day, about a month ago, with my 5yr old, Morgan (from my
blog):

<<<I was folding laundry and she was eating cereal. Out of the blue,
she asked "what number is 5, 3, 1?" So I told her "five-hundred
thirty one" and kept folding laundry.

Okay, this is one of Mo's new games, to fire off a string of numbers
and have me tell her what it is. Its just something she does, almost
exactly like when she was just wrapping her head around letters and
sounds when she would give me strings of letters and want me to
pronounce them. With the numbers, on this particular day, she
started out adding digets to the end of the string "what's 5311,
whats 53111?" and the little "teacher voice" in the back of my head
said, okay, we're working on place value, here. Fine. I started
writing the numbers down in dry-erase marker on the front of the
microwave, which sits on top of the dryer (gotta love dry-erase
pens!). Then she asked "what's 631, what's 731?" Okay, still working
on place value, but in a different way. "What O'clock is that?" huh?
I thought we were doing place value! I looked at the microwave in
confusion and noticed the time: 1:37. I told her the time and she
frowned at me.

I went and got the "practice clock" - its one where you move the
minute hand and the hour hand moves, too. I set that to the same
time as the digital on the microwave. In the past I've tried
explaining that the numbers mean something different for the "big
hand" but she hasn't been interested, so this time I offered to get
my new watch to look at, too. Its analog and it has the minutes
written in tiny little numbers around the outside (and its pink with
lots of buckles, in case you wanted to know).

She looked at the watch and the clock and the microwave.
"I want to write two o'clock" she announced. I moved the laundry
basket and handed her the dry-erase pen. She wrote 2 12 and then
went and set the practice clock to the correct time, short hand
pointing at the two, long hand to the 12.
"Well, this is how this clock will say it" it pointed to the
microwave's clock and wrote 2:00 above it, saying "o'clock" as I
wrote the zeros. "The dots tell us its a time."
"I want to write it again!" I handed back the pen. She wiped out all
the numbers and wrote: 00:2 and next to it "too oclook" I pronounced
the oclook for her so she could hear the "oo" and changed the second
o to a c - which she made a joke about, but she's seen ck's plenty
of times in books, and I know she's aware of that spelling
convention. Her attention shifted to playing with words and sounds,
another favorite game.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Kids are infinately curious and love to learn. I could have stopped
Mo with a sigh after a couple questions "honey, I'm in the middle of
something, we'll learn to tell time later". I have to watch out for
those moments - the "not right now" moments - b/c *now* is when she
(and now my stepson, too) is interested. Its easy to let everything
else in the grown-up world be more important than a child's
questions. That's the hard part. Not the learning - the kids take
care of that.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

alisonslp

12 Dec 2006, at 7:07pm

--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666"
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

>> Kids are infinately curious and love to learn. I could have stopped
> Mo with a sigh after a couple questions "honey, I'm in the middle of
> something, we'll learn to tell time later". I have to watch out for
> those moments - the "not right now" moments - b/c *now* is when she
> (and now my stepson, too) is interested. Its easy to let everything
> else in the grown-up world be more important than a child's
> questions. That's the hard part. Not the learning - the kids take
> care of that.
>

This is a biggie for me right now, being new to it all. I have to stop
myself from saying "not now", just because it's a bit inconvenient to
me. Though I must say, now that my time isn't taken up with writing
weekly plans, and sitting with them for hours "teaching", it has been
much easier for me give them more of my attention when they are asking
for it. Last night my 6yr olds asked me to color with them. I love to
color, but typically I have so much to do that I'm just not interested
in sitting for 1/2 hr to color. But with more time on my hands, I am
able to get my work done in spurts throughout the day and hav emore
time when they ask. So I sat down and colored and enjoyed my time with
my kids. We had a blast with all the new color names (I got a new 120
crayon box). Did you know they now have "outer space?" and it's a neat
color! LOL

Alison

Tami Campbell

13 Dec 2006, at 5:43am

> 5 is SO little. If he's your oldest he might seem big, but in a few
> years you'll look back and realize how tiny he is.

> Just enjoy him. He'll be big and know more than you imagined in a few
> years. And you'll miss these years.

> Ria

Thanks...I needed that... :-)

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Tami Campbell

13 Dec 2006, at 5:55am

--- Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...> wrote:

> First of all, if your son was in school for 8 weeks, he hasn't been
> out very long since then. He obviously still has memories of how
> miserable he was and probably won't want to do anything like what he
> did in school.

Thanks for the reminder... :-)

> My daughter is nearly 12 now and has rarely
> put anything on paper. She has never wanted a workbook or a word
> search or anything of that sort. However, she is starting to write
> a lot on the computer - stories & such. She loves to read and can
> write amazingly well with correct grammar and all. And she's never
> touched a workbook in her life! How can that be?

These are the things I need to hear ;-)

> And try not to quiz him about what he's learned from what he's
> watched or played or whatever.

Thank you for this...you're right, I need to stop asking him what he's learned, but some days I
feel like I need to make sure he's "learned something" so he can trot out his newly gained
knowledge at dinner for my husband, to "prove" that this is really working. Yes,I know...these are
*my* issues...sigh...

>If he feels like it's a test, he may
> come to dread even his beloved dinosaur show.

VERY good point, thank you.

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Tami Campbell

13 Dec 2006, at 6:21am

--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> It isn't so much a matter of "making every moment a learning
> opportunity" as *seeing* that kids are learning all the time, and
> being willing to help them.

THANK YOU for this clarification. That *really* makes me feel better!

> I could have stopped
> Mo with a sigh after a couple questions "honey, I'm in the middle of
> something, we'll learn to tell time later". I have to watch out for
> those moments - the "not right now" moments - b/c *now* is when she
> (and now my stepson, too) is interested. Its easy to let everything
> else in the grown-up world be more important than a child's
> questions. That's the hard part.

You're right. This is probably one of my biggest struggles right now, because with 3 little ones,
if I let something house-related "slide" for a day or two, it takes twice as long to recover.
And...I have very strong obsessive-compulsive tendencies...I NEED the house to be in order or I
truly cannot function well. So...recognizing these moments and letting go of whatever I'm in the
middle of (especially letting go mentally) is something I will need to learn how to do. Thank
you.

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laura g

13 Dec 2006, at 9:38am

I have a 5 year old here too. I have alot of pressure from our homeschool
group and family to do something "structured" with him. Sometimes I really
feel like I am not doing the right thing but when it comes down to it I
realize how much he loves to learn and how much he knows. The same people
who make comments about how I should do something structured with him also
tell me how impressed they are about his body of knowledge about a large
variety of subjects. they also make comments about how much he enjoys
drawing and how interesting his pictures are.
There was a word search in the kids bulletin at church the other week. He
wanted to try it so I helped him with it. It was very simple with the words
in bold and he had alot of trouble with it. He did it with my help.

>From: Tami Campbell <Tamicamp@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Ponderings from a newbie: 5yo's
>learning
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>
>--- Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...> wrote:
>
> > First of all, if your son was in school for 8 weeks, he hasn't been
> > out very long since then. He obviously still has memories of how
> > miserable he was and probably won't want to do anything like what he
> > did in school.
>
>Thanks for the reminder... :-)
>
> > My daughter is nearly 12 now and has rarely
> > put anything on paper. She has never wanted a workbook or a word
> > search or anything of that sort. However, she is starting to write
> > a lot on the computer - stories & such. She loves to read and can
> > write amazingly well with correct grammar and all. And she's never
> > touched a workbook in her life! How can that be?
>
>These are the things I need to hear ;-)
>
>
> > And try not to quiz him about what he's learned from what he's
> > watched or played or whatever.
>
>Thank you for this...you're right, I need to stop asking him what he's
>learned, but some days I
>feel like I need to make sure he's "learned something" so he can trot out
>his newly gained
>knowledge at dinner for my husband, to "prove" that this is really working.
>Yes,I know...these are
>*my* issues...sigh...
>
> >If he feels like it's a test, he may
> > come to dread even his beloved dinosaur show.
>
>VERY good point, thank you.
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
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plaidpanties666

13 Dec 2006, at 9:40am

--- In [email protected], "alisonslp"
<alisonslp@...> wrote:

>>So I sat down and colored and enjoyed my time with
> my kids. We had a blast with all the new color names (I got a new

120

> crayon box). Did you know they now have "outer space?" and it's a

neat

> color! LOL

Oooooooh aaaaaaaaah! I Love a new box of crayons - especially the
smell. Mmmmmm.

I have always loved to color and got a lot of flak about it as a
kid. Now when I'm working out a new quilt design I love to make a
dozen photocopies and color each one differently. Last night I had
dozed off and Mo woke me up b/c she wanted to look at the anatomy
coloring book with me (she's really into "what's inside" right now).
It was sooooooo tempting to say "lets do that in the morning"! But I
sat up and we ended up reading and looking at pictures for almost an
hour. It was so sweet to snuggle with my sleepy kid - I can't
believe I was even tempted to miss that.

D'you have Rue Kream's book, yet? There's a similar story in there
about her husband mock-complaining while he goes to set up the
telescope one night. It sounded so much like our life - right down
to the griping dad ;)

---Meredith (120 colors, eh? maybe its a walmart kind of day....)

plaidpanties666

13 Dec 2006, at 10:08am

--- In [email protected], Tami Campbell
<Tamicamp@...> wrote:

>>I need to stop asking him what he's learned, but some days I
> feel like I need to make sure he's "learned something" so he can

trot out his newly gained

> knowledge at dinner for my husband, to "prove" that this is really

working. Yes,I know...these are

> *my* issues...sigh...

D'you have a digital camera? They are great for "saving" projects
like lego-towers and chalk-drawings and mudpies. I keep a blog for
the extended family to see what Mo's up to, so they have things to
ask her instead of the obligatory "what are you learning in school?"
Since George is self-employed he gets to see alot of what she's
doing directly, but that might be a good way to connect with your
dh, too.

If he's not around during the day, he needs that connection. Even if
he loves his job it may be tough for him to be missing so much of
the family action. Right now he may not have the skills to say that -
like our extended family, he needs a way to talk to all y'all
without the "standard questions" about school and learning.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Michelle Leifur Reid

13 Dec 2006, at 10:09am

On 12/12/06, Tami <Tamicamp@...> wrote:

> Okay, so now I'M frustrated. This is all very new to me. While I believe in and would like to
> try an unschooling approach, I am not one of those moms who can "make every moment a
> learning opportunity" (as I've read other people comment on other unschooling boards), so
> I feel like he's missing out if I don't try to sit down and do some sort of "lessons" with him.
> But it obviously wasn't working, because we were both getting frustrated and he wasn't
> learning anything anyway.

Oh he was learning something, it just wasn't a schoolish thing he was
learning. Every moment IS a learning moment in unschooling. Even
when we are having fun playing video games we are learning something
(even if it is how to beat Sepheroth in Kingdom Hearts) It doesn't
have to look like school. It shoudln't look like school. School is
the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish here. We want
children to value learning and to see it as a natural part of their
lives. Not something that is rote or forced. The things they need to
know in life they will learn as they work through life.

If your son is really into dinosaurs, then strew dinosaurs in front of
him. Get him books, puzzles, models, and videos on dinosaurs. See if
there is a dinosaur exhibit within a few hours drive of where you are.
Go to DisneyWorld and let him dig in the boneyard (OK, more than just
a one day adventure, but if you happen to be going it is a great
experience for kids as the bones in the graveyard are actual castings
of dinosaur bones!) Get on the internet and find online exhibitions.
Make a dino sculpture out of marshmallows and toothpicks (sticky and
fun and lots of marshmallows get eaten). Learn all the names of all
the dinosaurs and make it into a fun word game. You could even (if
the opportunity lends itself) explain why a T. Rex is called rex and
what rex means (king) as well as all the other dinosaurs with their
Latin and Greek rooted names (it will also help them remember why the
dinosaur is called that because the names are usually descriptive.)
Rent movies about dinosaurs (Disney's Dinosaur was really a great
movie and there is the whole series of Land Before Time movies). If
he wouldn't get to scared (it scared me, but I'm a weenie) watch
Jurassic Park with him. He's going to learn the things he needs to
learn from all of that. He will. Trust it. Trust him. Only then
will he learn to trust you not to turn everything he does into
something that reminded him of school and a dinosaur word search will
seem fun and not like an assignment.

Michelle - currently strewing pirate stuff

Michelle Leifur Reid

13 Dec 2006, at 10:13am

On 12/13/06, laura g <lalow@...> wrote:

> There was a word search in the kids bulletin at church the other week. He
> wanted to try it so I helped him with it. It was very simple with the words
> in bold and he had alot of trouble with it. He did it with my help.

Those can be difficlut even for people who are excellent readers. I
loved those growing up. My brother detested them. He could NEVER
find all the words no matter how hard he tried. It's not a true sign
of intelligence, it is an exercise in puzzles. Some people are good
at puzzles and others aren't. Your son isn't missing out on something
just because he can't do a word search without your help. And think
of the fun you had doing it with him!

Michelle

laura g

13 Dec 2006, at 10:56am

we did have fun doing the word search. I was never very good at them
either. I just mentioned it cause someone else said something about their 5
year old and word searches.

>From: "Michelle Leifur Reid" <pamperedmichelle@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Ponderings from a newbie: 5yo's
>learning
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:13:13 -0600
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>On 12/13/06, laura g <lalow@...> wrote:
>
> > There was a word search in the kids bulletin at church the other week.
>He
> > wanted to try it so I helped him with it. It was very simple with the
>words
> > in bold and he had alot of trouble with it. He did it with my help.
>
>Those can be difficlut even for people who are excellent readers. I
>loved those growing up. My brother detested them. He could NEVER
>find all the words no matter how hard he tried. It's not a true sign
>of intelligence, it is an exercise in puzzles. Some people are good
>at puzzles and others aren't. Your son isn't missing out on something
>just because he can't do a word search without your help. And think
>of the fun you had doing it with him!
>
>Michelle

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Jessica Niles

13 Dec 2006, at 9:12pm

>>>>Michelle - currently strewing pirate stuff<<<<

Vickisue Gray

14 Dec 2006, at 1:28am

I'm not Michelle, but we did a pirate birthday party with a treasure hunt
two birthday's ago.
Dad and I had buried a treasure chest on our little island.
Then we left pieces of a treasure map with clues leading to the
next clue around the yard.
The first clue sent them to a bucket tied up in a tree they had
to lower. It was filled with toy swords, eyepatches, and other
pirate wear. gotta look the part, right?
My spouse dressed up in a pirate costume, spoke pirate, and
told pirate jokes

If you google pirate parties, pirate jokes, pirate etc....you'll get
more ideas then you could ever use.

Good luck and have a hardy har good time matey.

Jessica Niles <nilesjess@...> wrote:

>>>>Michelle - currently strewing pirate stuff<<<<

Michelle,

I'd love to hear any pirate ideas! Care to share?

Jessica

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Tami Campbell

14 Dec 2006, at 6:00am

--- plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

>
> If he's not around during the day, he needs that connection. Even if
> he loves his job it may be tough for him to be missing so much of
> the family action. Right now he may not have the skills to say that -
> like our extended family, he needs a way to talk to all y'all
> without the "standard questions" about school and learning.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>

Thank you. This is very insightful. I had never really thought about this before.

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Maisha Khalfani

15 Dec 2006, at 2:01am

<<This is a biggie for me right now, being new to it all. I have to stop
myself from saying "not now", just because it's a bit inconvenient to
me.>>

I admit this is a huge problem for me too. I always feel like there is something to do. Like I'm always on the go. I could definitely use a vacation from everyone. Is that a bad thing? Right now it's 2am est and everyone's asleep, and though I want to go to sleep as well I finally have some peace and quiet - and a chance to use the computer <g>.
I want to learn how to stop saying "have to" and "should" and thinking about my oh-so-long to-do list....how do I do that?

Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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Vickisue Gray

15 Dec 2006, at 2:13am

When you figure it out, please let me know.
It's 2:10 am and I just put my spouses uniforms
he needs at 6am, into the dryer. He started the
load while I was at work, but got too caught up
in other things to finish.

I'm kinda mad at him because he is injured but
refuses to take a day off. He's a firefighter and they
had a structure fire yesterday. Part of a roof collapsed
on him and a few others. His shoulder hurts, he saw the doc,
but is playing the tough guy. I won't be sleeping for awhile.

Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote:
<<This is a biggie for me right now, being new to it all. I have to stop
myself from saying "not now", just because it's a bit inconvenient to
me.>>

I admit this is a huge problem for me too. I always feel like there is something to do. Like I'm always on the go. I could definitely use a vacation from everyone. Is that a bad thing? Right now it's 2am est and everyone's asleep, and though I want to go to sleep as well I finally have some peace and quiet - and a chance to use the computer <g>.
I want to learn how to stop saying "have to" and "should" and thinking about my oh-so-long to-do list....how do I do that?

Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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Jane

15 Dec 2006, at 2:38am

Maisha writes: I want to learn how to stop saying "have to" and "should" and thinking about my oh-so-long to-do list....how do I do that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Change your view. New glasses, please.

Our home is most usually in disarray (and sometimes those are the "neat" days!!), there's a pile of laundry on the pool table that's as tall as my toddler, I should be asleep too (I wanted to refresh my inbox just once more, lol!!), and I need to a, b, c, x, y, z and some need to happen PDQ (how about wrapping presents!!).

But, the unabashed joy of unschooling abounds. What exactly could be more important than listening to my 9 yo proudly rattle off math facts (he just **shines**!!)?? What could be better than pausing to watch the red tailed hawk who landed on a neighbor's roof? Figuring out that cardinal is the male, that's the female? Listening to the noise as we throw rocks at a frozen lake? Not a thing. Tonight we drove around and looked at Christmas lights. I did dishes and the kitchen at 11'ish. Wouldn't have traded a thing for the Christmas lights.

Pause. Take a moment. Look around you. Really look. Who exactly would perish if the laundry sat another day? Do you *really* "have to"? What exactly would happen if you didn't vacuum for one more day? Is it something you *really* should do? Change your view. As they say on the show "The View", "Take a moment to enjoy the view.".

TTFN,
Jane

Jane Powell
Tribe's Partner

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

"There is no right way to do the wrong thing." - unknown

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Maisha Khalfani

15 Dec 2006, at 2:44am

<<When you figure it out, please let me know.
It's 2:10 am and I just put my spouses uniforms
he needs at 6am, into the dryer.>>

Yep, sounds like my life. Dh has to be at work by 7am so we are out the house by 6:30 (one car so if I want it I ride with him to work)

<<I'm kinda mad at him because he is injured but
refuses to take a day off. He's a firefighter and they
had a structure fire yesterday. >>

Yikes! I'm happy he's okay. Dh doesn't risk his life but he has the same aches and pains. He works for FedEx and this is a pretty busy time. Though someone did try to rob him for some xboxes he was delivering. LOL - I laugh because dh threw the kid to the ground (gun and all) and explained to him that he had a wife and kids to get home to and didn't have time for this bullshit - LOL. It's not the 1st time dh has faced a gun so there was no fear for him, just a desire to get home. Needless to say by the end of the evening he saw the kid again with some friends, and the boy just waved at him and said "hi mr. K" - lol. They won't be messing with his truck again.

But I digress.....as soon as I figure out how to stop "having to" do things I'll be happy to pass it along. I just don't get how I don't "have to" do the laundry or "have to" cook dinner. If I don't do these things it causes stress for everyone.....most of all me! <g>

Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
When you figure it out, please let me know.
It's 2:10 am and I just put my spouses uniforms
he needs at 6am, into the dryer. He started the
load while I was at work, but got too caught up
in other things to finish.

I'm kinda mad at him because he is injured but
refuses to take a day off. He's a firefighter and they
had a structure fire yesterday. Part of a roof collapsed
on him and a few others. His shoulder hurts, he saw the doc,
but is playing the tough guy. I won't be sleeping for awhile.

Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote:
<<This is a biggie for me right now, being new to it all. I have to stop
myself from saying "not now", just because it's a bit inconvenient to
me.>>

I admit this is a huge problem for me too. I always feel like there is something to do. Like I'm always on the go. I could definitely use a vacation from everyone. Is that a bad thing? Right now it's 2am est and everyone's asleep, and though I want to go to sleep as well I finally have some peace and quiet - and a chance to use the computer <g>.
I want to learn how to stop saying "have to" and "should" and thinking about my oh-so-long to-do list....how do I do that?

Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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Vickisue Gray

15 Dec 2006, at 4:00am

Yes, we have the same issues....BTW fedex in MY neighborhood,
worries about getting stuck or the cows, lol. Only a few of the
bravest will deliver here! not kidding...hehehe...
A newbie from NY caught the only loose bull in a year on
his first day....he quit.

I'm sorry your spouse has to deal with punks. Sounds like
he can handle it. My spouse sort of gets that behavior in
the town he's in with the illegal Mexicans. If they hear any form
of 'cop'. 'police' or see an 'official' shirt with a badge, first they reach
to their hips. second they flee the area.

He has learned not to ask questions on certain medical calls and
was horrified over a SID's call where they wouldn't touch the child.
Cultural differences. The white people run a SID's to the emergency
vehicle. The Mexicans still closer to Mexico let them respond all the way
and would never attempt CPR!

I'll be adding your spouse to my prayers!
Have a great Holiday Season.
Vicki

Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote:
<<When you figure it out, please let me know.
It's 2:10 am and I just put my spouses uniforms
he needs at 6am, into the dryer.>>

Yep, sounds like my life. Dh has to be at work by 7am so we are out the house by 6:30 (one car so if I want it I ride with him to work)

<<I'm kinda mad at him because he is injured but
refuses to take a day off. He's a firefighter and they
had a structure fire yesterday. >>

Yikes! I'm happy he's okay. Dh doesn't risk his life but he has the same aches and pains. He works for FedEx and this is a pretty busy time. Though someone did try to rob him for some xboxes he was delivering. LOL - I laugh because dh threw the kid to the ground (gun and all) and explained to him that he had a wife and kids to get home to and didn't have time for this bullshit - LOL. It's not the 1st time dh has faced a gun so there was no fear for him, just a desire to get home. Needless to say by the end of the evening he saw the kid again with some friends, and the boy just waved at him and said "hi mr. K" - lol. They won't be messing with his truck again.

But I digress.....as soon as I figure out how to stop "having to" do things I'll be happy to pass it along. I just don't get how I don't "have to" do the laundry or "have to" cook dinner. If I don't do these things it causes stress for everyone.....most of all me! <g>

Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
When you figure it out, please let me know.
It's 2:10 am and I just put my spouses uniforms
he needs at 6am, into the dryer. He started the
load while I was at work, but got too caught up
in other things to finish.

I'm kinda mad at him because he is injured but
refuses to take a day off. He's a firefighter and they
had a structure fire yesterday. Part of a roof collapsed
on him and a few others. His shoulder hurts, he saw the doc,
but is playing the tough guy. I won't be sleeping for awhile.

Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote:
<<This is a biggie for me right now, being new to it all. I have to stop
myself from saying "not now", just because it's a bit inconvenient to
me.>>

I admit this is a huge problem for me too. I always feel like there is something to do. Like I'm always on the go. I could definitely use a vacation from everyone. Is that a bad thing? Right now it's 2am est and everyone's asleep, and though I want to go to sleep as well I finally have some peace and quiet - and a chance to use the computer <g>.
I want to learn how to stop saying "have to" and "should" and thinking about my oh-so-long to-do list....how do I do that?

Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama

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Debra Rossing

15 Dec 2006, at 10:06am

>I just don't get how I don't "have to" do the laundry or "have to" cook

dinner. If I don't do these things it causes stress >for
everyone.....most of all me! <g>

Then think about why it causes stress. Stress is the result of some
expectation not being met/a difference between expectation and reality.
Who's expectation is it? Where is it coming from? Who's "should" is it?
Does it "have to" be done NOW or can it be done later or differently or
by someone else?

For instance, you "could" cook once a week (maybe take an afternoon
while DH is available to play with/watch the kids and just take over the
kitchen) and then just reheat pre-portioned amounts the rest of the
time. You "could" have every take out/delivery place in town on speed
dial and never cook. You "could" hire someone to do the cooking. And so
on. You don't "have to" -cook- dinner - pull out cheese, crackers,
fruit, etc and have a cold buffet spread out. You "could" use a slow
cooker and set up dinner at noon rather than at the end of the day.
We've got a lovely rice cooker - add water and rice and hit ON and it'll
do the job and keep it warm once it's cooked for several hours. Pair
that with some re-heated, precooked chicken and microwaved frozen
veggies and you've got a decent meal with all of about 15 minutes work
(although the chicken would need cooking previously - but that's easy
enough to do some other day when you are preparing chicken for dinner -
cook a couple extra pieces at the same time, takes the same amount of
cooking time, and stash for a pull-out-of-the-fridge meal). Now that
winter's here, my hubby (the at home parent) will spend an afternoon
making a big pot of soup which becomes dinner that night, lunches here
and there the rest of the week and will get an addition of pasta or rice
later on to become a whole other meal (the soup and veggies act as
flavoring for the starch portion). Another day, a pot of chili becomes
dinner, subsequent lunches, and then topping for baked potatoes (which
are toss in the oven for an hour, no attention required easy to do).
Often, Saturday dinner becomes "leftover night" - assorted leftovers,
along with maybe a fresh salad or something, are set out and everyone
eats what they want. Sometimes, a double pancake batter is breakfast one
day and dinner the next.

For us (granted it's only 2 adults and 1 8 yr old), setting aside one
day of the week as laundry day and doing it all at once works best, DH's
choice - DH and DS often just spend the day down in the finished
gameroom area adjacent to the utility area of the basement so there's no
up and down stairs. DH brings ALL the laundry down at once (mesh baskets
that get tossed down the stairs one at a time - they play "Look out
below" where DH will "yell" look out below and toss the basket down,
whereupon DS will dash in and move that basket to make room for the next
one) and hauls them back up one or two at a time as they are done and
he's going that way (like to go up to the bathroom or to get food).
Folding and putting away is a whole other task. None of us generally
need really crisply pressed stuff (I WOH fulltime but standard attire
here is jeans and tshirts/sweatshirts/flannel shirts, plus we tend
toward soft, no crinkle, no iron fabrics and perma press stuff that is
fairly resistant to wrinkling. DS lives in sweatpants and tshirts most
of the time for instance) - for that matter, our iron died a few years
ago and we haven't yet really missed it much.

Also, I think sometimes we get the idea that taking care of the
housework stuff and spending time with our kids are separate worlds.
After all, that's likely what we've seen and what we still see. 'Tain't
necessarily so. Put in a movie and fold laundry or iron right there WITH
the kids. Include them in the food prep in some way - whether it's
hands-on with the food stuffs or just keeping you company while you work
(I spent many dinner prep times when DS was littler answering "what's
qrwtszynmx say Mommy?" as he played with magnets on the fridge nearby).
More recently, I actually made a couple batches of a favorite sweet
(pumpkin tassies - like mini muffin sized pumpkin pies) *while* also
playing Texas Hold'em with DH and DS. I'd check my cards initially
(pause in stirring or scooping, nothing that can burn) then they'd call
out the community cards and I'd tell them what I wanted to do - how much
to bet, fold, check, whatever. I even won several hands -from a
distance-.

Keep in mind that the images we usually have of how a house "should"
look and what a mom "should" do are generally based on a scenario where
the kids are gone for 8 or more hours per day. It's not as difficult to
clean the whole house, do laundry, and start dinner when it's just one
adult with no other things going on for a long stretch of time. Then the
kids get home, do homework, eat dinner, bath and pjs, then bed around 8
or 9. So the comparison is invalid - you're comparing a home where there
are active kids being and doing and exploring 24/7 and a home where kids
are there, awake, and actively exploring for maybe 3 hours per day tops
for the better part of the week. You're kids do more *in the house* in
one day than the typical schooled kids do in almost a week. It's gonna
look a lot different than society's stereotypical 'soccer mom'
household.

You might also look at your own 'hot spots' - what one or two areas do
you need to have "tidy" in order to feel comfortable. For me, having my
desk area and the stove top clean are important, with the eating half of
the kitchen table second. If they are in order, I can cope better with
other stuff. Maybe find a space or two that you can go tidy quickly and
feel more able to cope.

Maybe invite a local teen to come play with the kids while you "do" one
room. Or trade kids with another mom. Or only 'maintain' things
basically during the week then tag-team with spouse on a weekend
morning...that is, you do a room or a 15 minute chunk or what-have-you
while spouse plays with/supervises the kids then you switch - spouse
takes on a task while you spend time with the kids. It's quite
remarkable how much can get done in focused 15 minute spurts. There are
lots of things, like flylady, which provide hints on how to get control
of the housework stuff. We haven't gone there but I know there are folks
who take the basic ideas and modify them to fit their own
lifestyle/preferences. Maybe set aside 15 minutes in the am, 15 minutes
around lunchtime, and 15 minutes in the late afternoon as "Mom stuff"
times - whether it's prepping dinner or throwing in a load of laundry,
or dusting the living room (BTW old sweat socks with fabric marker faces
and a spritz of your favorite dusting spray are cool "Dust eating
monster" hand puppets for the kids. My son also has a love of feather
dusters and the Swiffer mopper thing). I know some folks who use all
non-toxic cleaners (based on things like vinegar and baking soda and
such, rather than bleach or ammonia) so the kids can pitch in *safely*
when they want to help. Young kids, especially, really want to help and
be "like Mommy/Daddy" if they can do it in their own time and manner.
Dusting all the blue things, then all the red things, and so on may not
be the way you'd do it or the most efficient but if it is fun and gets
things done, go for it. Play games with it - give everyone a dustrag
"tail", put on some music, and shake your tailfeathers to dust (won't
get the top of the entertainment center but with kids of various sizes
you can get a lot of shelves and such dusted nicely).

Deb

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Maisha Khalfani

20 Dec 2006, at 9:02am

Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
Then think about why it causes stress. Stress is the result of some
expectation not being met/a difference between expectation and reality.
Who's expectation is it? Where is it coming from? Who's "should" is it?
Does it "have to" be done NOW or can it be done later or differently or
by someone else?
*************************************************
Deb, you had some great suggestions. Right now our living situation is probably what is causing so much extra stress, but as soon as we have our own place to live i will work on some of these - like cooking extra for t he week and such.
thanks again.

>I just don't get how I don't "have to" do the laundry or "have to" cook