Heather

Hello All,

I have just recently decided to go with my gut and to NOT put my son
and daughter in tradtional school, private or public. They are only
three and 1/2 and two respectively, but Kindergarten was looming on
the horizon for my son and I didn't really grasp how much I was
dreading the intrusion on our lives untill I decided, once and for
all, to go with my gut and not to bow down to the wishes of the main-
stream and send him into the Quick Sand Muck (thanks to another post
for that description of school). My son is very sensitive and
somewhat speech delayed and I just know that sending him to school
would crush his spirit beyond repair. I know I have a 'row to hoe'
with my In-Laws (and other relatives/friends) when I break the news
that I won't be sending him to school, but I've dealt with thier
obvious disagreement in how I am raising my children on other fronts
already and so I am resigned to just do the "Thanks for your
concern, we're doing fine" line on this as well. I'd honestly never
heard of the Unschooling ideaology untill very recently, but I am
very intrigued by it. I had it in my mind that I would need to
follow a curriculum, involving tests and workbooks and textbooks
etc... But I am very interested in the 'learning from life' idea. I
am a bit nervous about it though. How do I ascertain and make sure
my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
concern? Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
know what they want to learn? Do you 'create interest' by just
putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
interests them from that? I have a HUGE library of books in my house
already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this enough
to implement Unschooling? Can it all be done with no 'traditional'
text books? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and new
to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my children
all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to it
than that? Any advice or information would be most appriciated.
Thanks!
Heather
Mom of Vito and Lilly

Joanne

Hi Heather and welcome!

May I suggest spending some time reading some of the older threads.
There's a TON of information and a lot of answers to your questions
there. I think that would be a great place to start. :-)

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html




--- In [email protected], "Heather" <johevili72@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have just recently decided to go with my gut and to NOT put my
son
> and daughter in tradtional school, private or public. They are
only
> three and 1/2 and two respectively, but Kindergarten was looming
on
> the horizon for my son and I didn't really grasp how much I was
> dreading the intrusion on our lives untill I decided, once and for
> all, to go with my gut and not to bow down to the wishes of the
main-
> stream and send him into the Quick Sand Muck (thanks to another
post
> for that description of school). My son is very sensitive and
> somewhat speech delayed and I just know that sending him to school
> would crush his spirit beyond repair. I know I have a 'row to hoe'
> with my In-Laws (and other relatives/friends) when I break the
news
> that I won't be sending him to school, but I've dealt with thier
> obvious disagreement in how I am raising my children on other
fronts
> already and so I am resigned to just do the "Thanks for your
> concern, we're doing fine" line on this as well. I'd honestly
never
> heard of the Unschooling ideaology untill very recently, but I am
> very intrigued by it. I had it in my mind that I would need to
> follow a curriculum, involving tests and workbooks and textbooks
> etc... But I am very interested in the 'learning from life' idea.
I
> am a bit nervous about it though. How do I ascertain and make sure
> my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
> concern? Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you
been
> succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
> know what they want to learn? Do you 'create interest' by just
> putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
> interests them from that? I have a HUGE library of books in my
house
> already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
> NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
> history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
> etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this
enough
> to implement Unschooling? Can it all be done with no 'traditional'
> text books? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and new
> to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my
children
> all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
> thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to
it
> than that? Any advice or information would be most appriciated.
> Thanks!
> Heather
> Mom of Vito and Lilly
>

Heather

Thanks Joanne for the reply! I'll go look at the older posts...
Honestly hadn't occured to me as I am so interested in most of
the 'newer' posts and have been spending the small amount of face
time I have at the computer on those! LOL! But I'll force myself to
dig into the older ones! Thanks again!
Heather
--- In [email protected], "Joanne"
<billyandjoanne@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Heather and welcome!
>
> May I suggest spending some time reading some of the older
threads.
> There's a TON of information and a lot of answers to your
questions
> there. I think that would be a great place to start. :-)
>
> ~ Joanne ~
> Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
> Adopted into our hearts October 2003
> ************************************
> Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
> www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Heather" <johevili72@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have just recently decided to go with my gut and to NOT put my
> son
> > and daughter in tradtional school, private or public. They are
> only
> > three and 1/2 and two respectively, but Kindergarten was looming
> on
> > the horizon for my son and I didn't really grasp how much I was
> > dreading the intrusion on our lives untill I decided, once and
for
> > all, to go with my gut and not to bow down to the wishes of the
> main-
> > stream and send him into the Quick Sand Muck (thanks to another
> post
> > for that description of school). My son is very sensitive and
> > somewhat speech delayed and I just know that sending him to
school
> > would crush his spirit beyond repair. I know I have a 'row to
hoe'
> > with my In-Laws (and other relatives/friends) when I break the
> news
> > that I won't be sending him to school, but I've dealt with thier
> > obvious disagreement in how I am raising my children on other
> fronts
> > already and so I am resigned to just do the "Thanks for your
> > concern, we're doing fine" line on this as well. I'd honestly
> never
> > heard of the Unschooling ideaology untill very recently, but I
am
> > very intrigued by it. I had it in my mind that I would need to
> > follow a curriculum, involving tests and workbooks and textbooks
> > etc... But I am very interested in the 'learning from life'
idea.
> I
> > am a bit nervous about it though. How do I ascertain and make
sure
> > my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
> > concern? Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you
> been
> > succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let
you
> > know what they want to learn? Do you 'create interest' by just
> > putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
> > interests them from that? I have a HUGE library of books in my
> house
> > already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
> > NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
> > history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary
fiction)
> > etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this
> enough
> > to implement Unschooling? Can it all be done with
no 'traditional'
> > text books? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and
new
> > to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my
> children
> > all along, just by answering their questions when asked,
providing
> > thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to
> it
> > than that? Any advice or information would be most appriciated.
> > Thanks!
> > Heather
> > Mom of Vito and Lilly
> >
>

Kelly Weyd

Heather,
I am also new to Unschooling. My advice to you would be to read as much about unschooling as you can. Your children are very young yet, so just play with them and love them. Your "well rounded education" comment stuck out at me. I used to worry about that too. Now I am not worried about a "well rounded education" at all now.........I've completely scrapped that idea. I'm more concerned with them finding their own path and learning the things that are right for their own lives as individuals. My girls are 6 & 8. Right now I just want them to be free and happy, and they shock me on a daily basis what they know and what they are learning. I let them take the lead. They let me know the types of things they need to learn. And somehow we manage to get all our states requirements in while at it.
Good Luck, I'm sure other's will have better advice.
Kelly

Heather <johevili72@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just recently decided to go with my gut and to NOT put my son
and daughter in tradtional school, private or public. They are only
three and 1/2 and two respectively, but Kindergarten was looming on
the horizon for my son and I didn't really grasp how much I was
dreading the intrusion on our lives untill I decided, once and for
all, to go with my gut and not to bow down to the wishes of the main-
stream and send him into the Quick Sand Muck (thanks to another post
for that description of school). My son is very sensitive and
somewhat speech delayed and I just know that sending him to school
would crush his spirit beyond repair. I know I have a 'row to hoe'
with my In-Laws (and other relatives/friends) when I break the news
that I won't be sending him to school, but I've dealt with thier
obvious disagreement in how I am raising my children on other fronts
already and so I am resigned to just do the "Thanks for your
concern, we're doing fine" line on this as well. I'd honestly never
heard of the Unschooling ideaology untill very recently, but I am
very intrigued by it. I had it in my mind that I would need to
follow a curriculum, involving tests and workbooks and textbooks
etc... But I am very interested in the 'learning from life' idea. I
am a bit nervous about it though. How do I ascertain and make sure
my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
concern? Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
know what they want to learn? Do you 'create interest' by just
putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
interests them from that? I have a HUGE library of books in my house
already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this enough
to implement Unschooling? Can it all be done with no 'traditional'
text books? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and new
to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my children
all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to it
than that? Any advice or information would be most appriciated.
Thanks!
Heather
Mom of Vito and Lilly






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 15, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Heather wrote:

> How do I ascertain and make sure
> my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
> concern?

What they end up with will be a different definition of well rounded.

School is about packages of facts and skills neatly separated into
categories that are handed to the child.

Real learning is about immersing yourself in the great mishmosh of
facts and ideas and experiences that is life and then pulling some
sense out of them. We're hardwired to make connections and pull
patterns out of chaos. We crave to make sense of it. That's why it's
so satisfying to figure out how to do something on our own and get
those "Ah-hah!" moments :-) It might be figuring out how to get onto
the next level in a video game. It might be pulling pattern out of a
complex story line in a manga. It might be seeing how numbers are
fluid and that, for instance, 8's don't have to stay 8's. They can
transform into 10-2 and 4+4 and 2*4.

That's how it's natural to learn. It doesn't make sense. It seems
totally inefficient, and yet it's how we're designed. It's not at all
natural for us to have some one else make sense out of that chaos and
try to feed it to us in some linear order. We need to see everything
in context and play around with it to understand.

> Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
> succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
> know what they want to learn?

In a way it looks like that and in a way it doesn't.

When she was 3-6 she was passionate about dinosaurs and we read every
kids' book, watched every video and movie, bought lots of plastic
dinosaurs. That's what most people picture when they think of
children taking the lead.

When she was 7-8, after spending 2 months in 2nd grade to try it out,
she drew pages and pages and pages of giant colored asterisks. She
called them snowflakes but they looked like asterisks. I have no clue
what was going on during that time but whatever it was, she needed to
do it. Towards the end she saw a stapler on the floor and drew an
amazing likeness of it.

When she was 8-9 she started drawing this comic book series about her
alter-ego Avn the Cat. Pages and pages and pages. She played a lot of
video games.

When she was 10-11 she watched *a lot* of Nickelodeon and Cartoon
Network. She didn't want to go places though she took a couple of art
classes. She only wanted to play with one friend since that friend
was the only one who would play the type of pretend she liked. She
said she had writer's block. I don't know what was going on there
either (though I've heard a lot of unschooling parents say their kids
were passionate about cartoons at that age..) It's a preteen shifting
of world views and interests. It's almost like it's a holding
patterns as they shift from kid interests to more mature interests.

At 12 she started drawing her comics again. (And still going at 15.)

She actually loaded some of her early stuff up at ComicGenesis:

http://avnhisky.comicgenesis.com/d/20050617.html

(The story with those characters is still going on!)

We also read a lot of picture books, mostly stories. We read and
listened to on tape a lot of adult and young adult books like Harry
Potter and Artemis Fowl. Then she discovered manga (Japanese comics)
and we've read a ton of those together. We also did a few other
things, but what I've written pretty much characterized what she was
doing at the time.

At 13 she decided to take the college statistics class her father
teaches. Her test scores were always either highest or within a few
points of highest. But she did it because it was fun. That year she
also decided to try the National Novel Writing Month challenge to
write a 50,000 word novel in 30 days which she managed to do. Which
she also did just because it was fun. (We're both half way through
our third time at it right now.)

None of the previous years look like they were leading up to anything
resembling that. ;-)

But *no one else's* journey or destination is going to look anything
like that. Most kids won't draw comics. Most kids won't take college
classes at 13. Most kids' unschooling is going to look a lot like
playing with some trips and activities for fun with parents.

> Do you 'create interest' by just
> putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
> interests them from that?

When we're transitioning from school-think, it's easy to get caught
in the idea of trying to get certain information into them in
whatever way possible. So the idea of strewing sounds like leaving
things they'd learn in school laying around for them to pick up, or
taking them to fun ways to learn about things they would have learned
through textbooks. Like leaving out books on butterflies and finding
programs on Animal Planet for them that sound good for them and trips
to history museums. Of course when they don't embrace them with
enthusiasm we get worried!

It might be Sandra Dodd who often suggests asking yourself if it's
something you would do for a spouse or friend. If we see a book we
think our spouse or a friend would really like, we might buy it or
tell them about it. We'd recommend movies they might like. We might
point out a lecture or something they might find interesting.

It's the same with kids. We aren't trying to fill gaps in our spouses
and friends. We're just passing on things they might like that they
may not have heard of.

WIth kids we just need to ramp it up. They aren't likely to be
combing the paper, and stumbling across things that sound intriguing.
They're less likely to get intrigued about something that might
interest them if they just don't know enough about it. A kid won't
get all excited about a video about the Titanic if they don't know
what the Titanic is!

It might also be helpful to let go of any emotional investment you
might have in something you put down for them. Treat everything you
strew as

> I have a HUGE library of books in my house
> already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
> NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
> history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
> etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this enough
> to implement Unschooling?

I thought so. But honestly a lot of the books I bought have gone
unread. We read tons of picture books and it was great owning her
favorites that were read over and over. But if I had to do it over
again, I would cut way back on the books! (If I could ;-) They're
hard to resist!)

I think in the end spending an afternoon doing crafts, or riding in
the car talking, or going for a walk exploring, or playing a video
game, or sharing a favorite cartoon together, is what's more
important. Making connections is more important than filling our
heads full of information.

We're so conditioned in this society to think of books as the key to
knowledge that we unconsciously put everything else way down on the
list. The truth is that books are just a convenient and cheap package
for information and one person's ideas. There's nothing knowledge-
wise more special about a book than a conversation or a movie or trip
to a pond. In fact, books are closer to school than to real life when
you think about it. Books provide linear information the way schools
do. Real life is about absorbing a 1000 different ideas and seeing
the patterns and connections between them. That's the way we
naturally learn.

In no way shape or form should someone see that as a dislike of
books. But it is putting books in a more realistic perspective. As
far as learning goes books aren't more important or special than any
other form of linear information (like a video or a lecture). Their
importance lies only in what someone is getting from them. Nothing more.

> Can it all be done with no 'traditional'
> text books?

I could say "Yes! Absolutely!"

Or I could confusingly say, "It depends on the kid."

But I think it might be more telling to say there is no "it". There
is no standard process that unschooling families are doing with their
kids. For curriculum users, the process looks the same with slight
variations: kids at the kitchen table reading from textbooks. Maybe
they might read their texts on the couch. Or really progressive
curriculum users might let them do it on the floor! ;-) But really
the process is the same. Even with eclectic homeschooling, all the
kids are doing something that looks like science or literature or math.

But for unschoolers, unschooling looks like summer vacation with
parents who like to play too. :-) And, while *the philosophy* is the
same for unschooling families, how it's put into practice will look
totally different. For some it might be a lot of going places. For
some it might be a lot of classes (dance and art and so forth). For
some it might be a lot of play dates. For some it might be a lot of
television and video games. For most families it will probably look
like a little of each of those.

It really depends on what a child enjoys. Some kids like textbooks
and workbooks and might use them in a fairly standard way. For some
kids there's a certain satisfying sense of "Here's a complete chunk
of knowledge with a distinct beginning, end and goal." But there's
nothing better about that than playing video games. What's important
is freely exploring the world in a way the child finds fun and
satisfying.

So, a quick answer to your question is, there's no need to make (or
cajole or bribe or whatever) a child [to] use a textbook for them to
explore life and find the things they enjoy before they're ready to
move on in the world.

> Any advice or information would be most appriciated.

There's years worth of collected posts in nice neat categories at:

http://sandradodd.com/unschooling

and

http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/

Joyce



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

>>I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my children
>>all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
>>thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to it
>>than that?

That's it! Unschooling is precisely what a lot of parents do naturally
until their kids get to "school age" and then for some reason (social
training mostly) they feel that passing that particular date on the
calendar means they have to do something different with textbooks,
sitting and doing workbooks, etc. instead of continuing to live, love,
and explore the world together. My DS is 8 and has never been schooled,
nary a text or workbook in sight. Oh wait, I take that back, there are a
few preschooly type color and count type things around that were gifts
from relatives. We treated them the same as a coloring book or game or
toy - to be used when and how and how long he wanted. If he wanted to
just open to a random page and color the pictures instead of counting
the bunnies and apples, fine. If he asked "what do the instructions
say?" we'd go ahead and read them - then he could choose whether to do
that or do something different with it. And we do have a couple "guides"
for cursive writing - about a year or two ago, he wanted to learn to
write his name in script after seeing me signing checks one day. So, I
did a bit with him and he asked for more. We talked a bit and decided
that checking the bookstore might be good - we picked out two guide
things (how to form the letters and connect them up with lots of arrows
and dotted lines) and took them home. After about 20-30 minutes, he had
had all he wanted of it for the time so we put them on a shelf for
whenever it comes around again, if it comes around again.

Deb

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: johevili72@...


How do I ascertain and make sure
my children will have a well rounded education.

-=-=-=-

Can you define "well-rounded education" for us?

-=-=-=-

Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
know what they want to learn?

-=-=-=-

Can you define "successful?"

-=-==-=-

Do you 'create interest' by just
putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
interests them from that?

-=-=-=-=-

They have varied interests alread. Yes, if I put something out,
sometimes they pick it up and play with it a while. Sometimes not.

I got two bee hives. Everyone loves honey. No one else wants to go IN
the hives but me! <g>

That doesn't mean they're not interested in how the bees are doing.
They care, but it's not their project. It's mine.

-=-=-=-=-

I have a HUGE library of books in my house
already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this enough
to implement Unschooling?

-=-=-=-

Maybe enough to implement HOMEschooling. Unschooling will need more and
different.

Do you have games and toys and animals and trips planned and cookware
and bakeware and music and tv and telephones and friends and relatives
and stores and banks and computers and fish and flowers and rocking
chairs and clocks and...???

-=-=-=-=-

Can it all be done with no 'traditional' text books?

-=-=-=-

Sure!

And..it depends on the kid.

--=-=-=-

Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and new
to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my children
all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to it
than that?

-=-==-

That's really what it is. Learning what they're interested in *when*
they're interested in it.

Trust. Respect. Patience.

~Kelly






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Vickisue Gray

I really like your answer.

I am still, also, new to the educational concept of unschooling vs homeschooling. We tried the 'homeschooling' when we first pulled my son out just about a year ago, half way through 2nd grade, and it was a real pain in the butt.

When my MIL had a stroke last Feb., and we had to race up to Ga, to be with her, we packed up the books and took them along. I came home to prepare things for my MIL to move in and left my spouse and son there with MIL. When they came home, there were no books. The school books remained in GA.

This past week as I was packing for a return trip to MIL's house to prepare it for winter, my son informed me that he had intentionally hid the books from dad so he wouldn't need to do the 'schoolwork'. Lol, such a devious little mind. He spent the spring and summer reading whatever he wanted, playing video and computer games he liked and just plain enjoying life and our farm.

Come August when the public school started, I tried once again to get him on track with a curriculum. What a miserable time we had of it. He didn't want to sit and 'do school'. I didn't want my days like that either. Besides, it turns out he knew most of the material for third grade already! From all his reading, he knew sentence structure and phrasing and had an extensive vocabulary. I asked him to read his third grade science book. He loved it but wanted to just read it cover to cover not in 'lesson' style of two pages a day.

I figured why not. After he finished, he informed me he already knew what they covered and more just from watching his favorite channel, Animal Planet and The Most Extreme.

I'm not going to say I have the total concept of 'unschooling' down. It's nearing the time to do our first required evaluation and as I was gathering his work to present to the evaluator, I started getting really nervous. Then I looked at his stuff from a year ago and his recent stuff. He has grown by leaps and bounds. Without penmanship lessons, his writing has improved wonderfully. He has taught himself to type by writing his stories on his blog page.

This past year proves to me that children (or at least mine) will learn and explore more when just given the room to do it. This group really helps keep things in perspective.




----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:26:10 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling, but excited to start!



-----Original Message-----
From: johevili72@yahoo. com

How do I ascertain and make sure
my children will have a well rounded education.

-=-=-=-

Can you define "well-rounded education" for us?

-=-=-=-

Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
know what they want to learn?

-=-=-=-

Can you define "successful? "

-=-==-=-

Do you 'create interest' by just
putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
interests them from that?

-=-=-=-=-

They have varied interests alread. Yes, if I put something out,
sometimes they pick it up and play with it a while. Sometimes not.

I got two bee hives. Everyone loves honey. No one else wants to go IN
the hives but me! <g>

That doesn't mean they're not interested in how the bees are doing.
They care, but it's not their project. It's mine.

-=-=-=-=-

I have a HUGE library of books in my house
already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this enough
to implement Unschooling?

-=-=-=-

Maybe enough to implement HOMEschooling. Unschooling will need more and
different.

Do you have games and toys and animals and trips planned and cookware
and bakeware and music and tv and telephones and friends and relatives
and stores and banks and computers and fish and flowers and rocking
chairs and clocks and...???

-=-=-=-=-

Can it all be done with no 'traditional' text books?

-=-=-=-

Sure!

And..it depends on the kid.

--=-=-=-

Sorry for all the questions, but I am a novice and new
to this whole concept. I suspect I've been 'unschooling' my children
all along, just by answering their questions when asked, providing
thought stimulating TV shows, music and toys... Is there more to it
than that?

-=-==-

That's really what it is. Learning what they're interested in *when*
they're interested in it.

Trust. Respect. Patience.

~Kelly

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Heather

Joyce,

Thank you so much for your lengthy and interesting post reply!! I
don't think I've understood unschooling nearly as much untill I read
your comments on it. I appriciate so much the time you gave each of
my questions and the thoroughness (is that a word? Ha!) of each of
your answers! I plan to visti both the sites you recommended and
hope to write you a more lengthy reply myself soon... Have quite a
few more responses to read just now, and then dinner to make, but
hopefully a bit more face time w/ the computer will present itself
soon. I couldn't go on to any of that though untill I told you thank
you and wished you a lovely day!

Warmest Smiles,
Heather

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Heather wrote:
>
> > How do I ascertain and make sure
> > my children will have a well rounded education. Is that a valid
> > concern?
>
> What they end up with will be a different definition of well
rounded.
>
> School is about packages of facts and skills neatly separated
into
> categories that are handed to the child.
>
> Real learning is about immersing yourself in the great mishmosh
of
> facts and ideas and experiences that is life and then pulling
some
> sense out of them. We're hardwired to make connections and pull
> patterns out of chaos. We crave to make sense of it. That's why
it's
> so satisfying to figure out how to do something on our own and
get
> those "Ah-hah!" moments :-) It might be figuring out how to get
onto
> the next level in a video game. It might be pulling pattern out of
a
> complex story line in a manga. It might be seeing how numbers are
> fluid and that, for instance, 8's don't have to stay 8's. They
can
> transform into 10-2 and 4+4 and 2*4.
>
> That's how it's natural to learn. It doesn't make sense. It seems
> totally inefficient, and yet it's how we're designed. It's not at
all
> natural for us to have some one else make sense out of that chaos
and
> try to feed it to us in some linear order. We need to see
everything
> in context and play around with it to understand.
>
> > Those of you with experience in Unschooling, have you been
> > succesful in just letting your children take the lead and let you
> > know what they want to learn?
>
> In a way it looks like that and in a way it doesn't.
>
> When she was 3-6 she was passionate about dinosaurs and we read
every
> kids' book, watched every video and movie, bought lots of plastic
> dinosaurs. That's what most people picture when they think of
> children taking the lead.
>
> When she was 7-8, after spending 2 months in 2nd grade to try it
out,
> she drew pages and pages and pages of giant colored asterisks.
She
> called them snowflakes but they looked like asterisks. I have no
clue
> what was going on during that time but whatever it was, she needed
to
> do it. Towards the end she saw a stapler on the floor and drew an
> amazing likeness of it.
>
> When she was 8-9 she started drawing this comic book series about
her
> alter-ego Avn the Cat. Pages and pages and pages. She played a lot
of
> video games.
>
> When she was 10-11 she watched *a lot* of Nickelodeon and Cartoon
> Network. She didn't want to go places though she took a couple of
art
> classes. She only wanted to play with one friend since that
friend
> was the only one who would play the type of pretend she liked.
She
> said she had writer's block. I don't know what was going on there
> either (though I've heard a lot of unschooling parents say their
kids
> were passionate about cartoons at that age..) It's a preteen
shifting
> of world views and interests. It's almost like it's a holding
> patterns as they shift from kid interests to more mature interests.
>
> At 12 she started drawing her comics again. (And still going at
15.)
>
> She actually loaded some of her early stuff up at ComicGenesis:
>
> http://avnhisky.comicgenesis.com/d/20050617.html
>
> (The story with those characters is still going on!)
>
> We also read a lot of picture books, mostly stories. We read and
> listened to on tape a lot of adult and young adult books like
Harry
> Potter and Artemis Fowl. Then she discovered manga (Japanese
comics)
> and we've read a ton of those together. We also did a few other
> things, but what I've written pretty much characterized what she
was
> doing at the time.
>
> At 13 she decided to take the college statistics class her father
> teaches. Her test scores were always either highest or within a
few
> points of highest. But she did it because it was fun. That year
she
> also decided to try the National Novel Writing Month challenge to
> write a 50,000 word novel in 30 days which she managed to do.
Which
> she also did just because it was fun. (We're both half way
through
> our third time at it right now.)
>
> None of the previous years look like they were leading up to
anything
> resembling that. ;-)
>
> But *no one else's* journey or destination is going to look
anything
> like that. Most kids won't draw comics. Most kids won't take
college
> classes at 13. Most kids' unschooling is going to look a lot like
> playing with some trips and activities for fun with parents.
>
> > Do you 'create interest' by just
> > putting out the books and materials and letting them pursue what
> > interests them from that?
>
> When we're transitioning from school-think, it's easy to get
caught
> in the idea of trying to get certain information into them in
> whatever way possible. So the idea of strewing sounds like
leaving
> things they'd learn in school laying around for them to pick up,
or
> taking them to fun ways to learn about things they would have
learned
> through textbooks. Like leaving out books on butterflies and
finding
> programs on Animal Planet for them that sound good for them and
trips
> to history museums. Of course when they don't embrace them with
> enthusiasm we get worried!
>
> It might be Sandra Dodd who often suggests asking yourself if
it's
> something you would do for a spouse or friend. If we see a book
we
> think our spouse or a friend would really like, we might buy it
or
> tell them about it. We'd recommend movies they might like. We
might
> point out a lecture or something they might find interesting.
>
> It's the same with kids. We aren't trying to fill gaps in our
spouses
> and friends. We're just passing on things they might like that
they
> may not have heard of.
>
> WIth kids we just need to ramp it up. They aren't likely to be
> combing the paper, and stumbling across things that sound
intriguing.
> They're less likely to get intrigued about something that might
> interest them if they just don't know enough about it. A kid
won't
> get all excited about a video about the Titanic if they don't
know
> what the Titanic is!
>
> It might also be helpful to let go of any emotional investment
you
> might have in something you put down for them. Treat everything
you
> strew as
>
> > I have a HUGE library of books in my house
> > already, not text books naturally, but shelves of biographies,
> > NUMEROUS'fact' type books about all sorts of things (science,
> > history, animals etc), novels (classics and contemporary fiction)
> > etc etc etc, and of course tons of childrens books... Is this
enough
> > to implement Unschooling?
>
> I thought so. But honestly a lot of the books I bought have gone
> unread. We read tons of picture books and it was great owning her
> favorites that were read over and over. But if I had to do it
over
> again, I would cut way back on the books! (If I could ;-) They're
> hard to resist!)
>
> I think in the end spending an afternoon doing crafts, or riding
in
> the car talking, or going for a walk exploring, or playing a
video
> game, or sharing a favorite cartoon together, is what's more
> important. Making connections is more important than filling our
> heads full of information.
>
> We're so conditioned in this society to think of books as the key
to
> knowledge that we unconsciously put everything else way down on
the
> list. The truth is that books are just a convenient and cheap
package
> for information and one person's ideas. There's nothing knowledge-
> wise more special about a book than a conversation or a movie or
trip
> to a pond. In fact, books are closer to school than to real life
when
> you think about it. Books provide linear information the way
schools
> do. Real life is about absorbing a 1000 different ideas and
seeing
> the patterns and connections between them. That's the way we
> naturally learn.
>
> In no way shape or form should someone see that as a dislike of
> books. But it is putting books in a more realistic perspective.
As
> far as learning goes books aren't more important or special than
any
> other form of linear information (like a video or a lecture).
Their
> importance lies only in what someone is getting from them. Nothing
more.
>
> > Can it all be done with no 'traditional'
> > text books?
>
> I could say "Yes! Absolutely!"
>
> Or I could confusingly say, "It depends on the kid."
>
> But I think it might be more telling to say there is no "it".
There
> is no standard process that unschooling families are doing with
their
> kids. For curriculum users, the process looks the same with
slight
> variations: kids at the kitchen table reading from textbooks.
Maybe
> they might read their texts on the couch. Or really progressive
> curriculum users might let them do it on the floor! ;-) But
really
> the process is the same. Even with eclectic homeschooling, all
the
> kids are doing something that looks like science or literature or
math.
>
> But for unschoolers, unschooling looks like summer vacation with
> parents who like to play too. :-) And, while *the philosophy* is
the
> same for unschooling families, how it's put into practice will
look
> totally different. For some it might be a lot of going places.
For
> some it might be a lot of classes (dance and art and so forth).
For
> some it might be a lot of play dates. For some it might be a lot
of
> television and video games. For most families it will probably
look
> like a little of each of those.
>
> It really depends on what a child enjoys. Some kids like
textbooks
> and workbooks and might use them in a fairly standard way. For
some
> kids there's a certain satisfying sense of "Here's a complete
chunk
> of knowledge with a distinct beginning, end and goal." But
there's
> nothing better about that than playing video games. What's
important
> is freely exploring the world in a way the child finds fun and
> satisfying.
>
> So, a quick answer to your question is, there's no need to make
(or
> cajole or bribe or whatever) a child [to] use a textbook for them
to
> explore life and find the things they enjoy before they're ready
to
> move on in the world.
>
> > Any advice or information would be most appriciated.
>
> There's years worth of collected posts in nice neat categories at:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
>
> and
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dawn Bennink

Vickisue,

Your son is awesome!

Dawn

Vickisue Gray

Thanks!
I think so, too!
Vicki

For anyone interested in reading my son's blog, (he likes readers, lol)
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Ktas/

These are his original stories.


----- Original Message ----
From: Dawn Bennink <bennink4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:41:38 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling, but excited to start!

Vickisue,

Your son is awesome!

Dawn






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathryn New

Hi! I'm new to unschooling. Like you, I thought I was going to get a curriculum and we were going to sit down and do lessons. We did well through about 20 lessons and then my six year old went 'on strike'. Although I don't mind to 'make' him do something, I wanted him to want to learn on his own. So, I guess we're unschooling. And now we're both learning! So I'm going to lurk around and soak up all the wisdom, and see how the heck I can make this work and still keep the State of Kentucky out of my life.
Kathy


----- Original Message ----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 5:16:32 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling, but excited to start!


I really like your answer.

I am still, also, new to the educational concept of unschooling vs homeschooling. We tried the 'homeschooling' when we first pulled my son out just about a year ago, half way through 2nd grade, and it was a real pain in the butt.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: kathryn0517@...

Although I don't mind to
'make' him do something, I wanted him to want to learn on his own.

-=-=-=-=-

Why don't you mind making him do something?

-=-=-=-=-

So, I guess we're unschooling. And now we're both learning!

-=-=-=-=-=-

Coersion doesn't fit in well with unschooling. I hope that part has
fallen by the wayside.

DEschooling's a good start---learning not to force things and learning
that learning is a natural part of living.

We're all eager learners until someone tries to force it upon us!

-=-=-=-

So I'm going to lurk around and
soak up all the wisdom, and see how the heck I can make this work and
still keep
the State of Kentucky out of my life.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Have you read the state law? Do you know anyone else in KY who is
unschooling?

http://www.homeschoolinginkentucky.com/
http://www.homeschoolinginkentucky.com/howto/methods/unschooling.aspx

You have some grest resources in Kentucky, it seems.

~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Kathryn New

-----Original Message-----
From: kathryn0517@...

Although I don't mind to
'make' him do something, I wanted him to want to learn on his own.

-=-=-=-=-

Why don't you mind making him do something?

I'm kind of a stickler for things like brushing teeth, taking baths & cleaning up the potty if you've missed the pot! And personal responsibility. I think that about covers the 'rules' at our house.

-=-=-=-=-

So, I guess we're unschooling. And now we're both learning!

-=-=-=-=-=-

Coersion doesn't fit in well with unschooling. I hope that part has
fallen by the wayside.

Coercion also doesn't fit my sons lifestyle. He's pretty much immune to coercion, bribery, and threats <g>. For some reason he's not impressed when I tell him I'll give him a million dollars to go to bed early (which would mean mommy gets to go bed early).

I've never been particularly talented at doing things in a regimented fashion, and I think I tried to stick both of us in a curriculum box. Neither of us fit.


DEschooling's a good start---learning not to force things and learning
that learning is a natural part of living.

We're all eager learners until someone tries to force it upon us!

-=-=-=-

So I'm going to lurk around and
soak up all the wisdom, and see how the heck I can make this work and
still keep
the State of Kentucky out of my life.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Have you read the state law? Do you know anyone else in KY who is
unschooling?

http://www.homeschoolinginkentucky.com/
http://www.homeschoolinginkentucky.com/howto/methods/unschooling.aspx

You have some grest resources in Kentucky, it seems.

I'm still looking into all my resources. And reading. Lots of reading. The local rural library is no help, so I'm off to the 'big city' to the book store this weekend. My only concern is the requirements Kentucky has for 'six hours of education a day'.

Kathy



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 16, 2006, at 8:09 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> It might also be helpful to let go of any emotional investment you
> might have in something you put down for them. Treat everything you
> strew as

Oops. Didn't finish that.

Treat everything you strew as though it were cartoons. It would be
perfectly natural to point out a cartoon you think your kids would
like. If they like it, great, if not, no big deal. There's so many
other things in the world to explore that whether or not they like on
cartoon isn't going to make or break their life ;-) Treat everything
you strew like that: A movie about Henry VIII, the next Harry Potter
novel, a video about the African savannah, a big cats coloring book,
a chemistry set, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon ... It's all just things
they might be interested in or not.

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 11/17/06, Kathryn New <kathryn0517@...> wrote:
> I'm still looking into all my resources. And reading. Lots of reading. The local rural library is no help, so I'm off to the 'big city' to the book store this weekend. My only concern is the requirements Kentucky has for 'six hours of education a day'.
>

Does your library have interlibrary loan from other branches in its
system? Some rural libraries offer interlibrary loan for free as long
as the book you are requesting is in the county/city/district system.
You may be limiting yourself without need. :)

As for 6 hours of instruction a day, can you truly go 6 hours without
learning anything? Every moment of every day is a day of learning in
the life of an unschooler. I'm presuming your child is awake for more
than 6 hours each day. :-) There I just solved your delimna of how
to meet six hours of education (doesn't say instruction).

Michelle

jen mobley

you make a very good point (one that I didn't realize) about "instruction"
rather than "education". I faced the same problem...how to teach her for
such a long period of time. I do realize that every moment is a learning
experience but I felt the pressure to drill info into her head. Thanks for
pointing that out! It really makes sense to me now! LOL!


>From: "Michelle Leifur Reid" <pamperedmichelle@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling, but excited to start!
>Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 07:57:13 -0600
>
>On 11/17/06, Kathryn New <kathryn0517@...> wrote:
> > I'm still looking into all my resources. And reading. Lots of reading.
>The local rural library is no help, so I'm off to the 'big city' to the
>book store this weekend. My only concern is the requirements Kentucky has
>for 'six hours of education a day'.
> >
>
>Does your library have interlibrary loan from other branches in its
>system? Some rural libraries offer interlibrary loan for free as long
>as the book you are requesting is in the county/city/district system.
>You may be limiting yourself without need. :)
>
>As for 6 hours of instruction a day, can you truly go 6 hours without
>learning anything? Every moment of every day is a day of learning in
>the life of an unschooler. I'm presuming your child is awake for more
>than 6 hours each day. :-) There I just solved your delimna of how
>to meet six hours of education (doesn't say instruction).
>
>Michelle

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Kelly Weyd

Include recess, bathroom breaks, snacks, and lunch too.......those things are counted in the six hours kids are at PS. Really if you condensed down (take out the interruptions, breaks, lunch, etc.) the actually time a child is getting instruction or doing academics in PS it would be nowhere near 6 hours.
Kelly

Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
On 11/17/06, Kathryn New <kathryn0517@...> wrote:
> I'm still looking into all my resources. And reading. Lots of reading. The local rural library is no help, so I'm off to the 'big city' to the book store this weekend. My only concern is the requirements Kentucky has for 'six hours of education a day'.
>

Does your library have interlibrary loan from other branches in its
system? Some rural libraries offer interlibrary loan for free as long
as the book you are requesting is in the county/city/district system.
You may be limiting yourself without need. :)

As for 6 hours of instruction a day, can you truly go 6 hours without
learning anything? Every moment of every day is a day of learning in
the life of an unschooler. I'm presuming your child is awake for more
than 6 hours each day. :-) There I just solved your delimna of how
to meet six hours of education (doesn't say instruction).

Michelle





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

Well that's pretty easy since he's awake probably 12 to 14 hours per
day. And *every* minute of that "counts" - reading the cereal box over
breakfast and discussing what "cholesterol" is 'counts' as reading and
science at the very minimum, "health" or "consumer health" or whatever
if those categories need filling in where you are. That's probably 15-20
minutes right there. Running around in the yard or bouncing on the couch
are "phys ed" and that's probably at least an hour. If you take time in
the evening to read together, that "counts". Playing computer and video
games "counts". If you take a walk and spend 15 minutes counting how
many worms you see because it just rained, that "counts" - phys ed,
science, math. And so on. That "6 hours" is not necessarily 6 contiguous
hours of sitting and doing bookwork. And, too, what kind of reporting is
legally required? From a summary I looked at, you "maintain" attendance
(Are you here? Yes, Momma) and "scholarship reports" - check into it.
Most states that use "maintain" mean you keep a journal or log of some
form (or a portfolio or a scrapbook or whatever) and IF someone asks to
see it, you show it to them; if no one asks, it just stays in a drawer.
Mostly it can mean that you keep a log and then IF asked, you translate
it into "school-ese", fitting things to expected categories "subjects"
and then send it in.

Deb

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