Perplexed??
wuweimama
This statement by a radically unschooling TCSer was posed on MDC's
"Learning at Home and Beyond". What are your thoughts?
<<<I don't think "learning without teaching" is part of radical
unschooling, and I don't personally know of any radical unschoolers
who would agree with this. I think this is another of the myths (and
we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine, within the
parameters defined by the learner.>>>
Thanks, Pat
"Learning at Home and Beyond". What are your thoughts?
<<<I don't think "learning without teaching" is part of radical
unschooling, and I don't personally know of any radical unschoolers
who would agree with this. I think this is another of the myths (and
we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine, within the
parameters defined by the learner.>>>
Thanks, Pat
Ren Allen
~~<<<I don't think "learning without teaching" is part of radical
unschooling, and I don't personally know of any radical unschoolers
who would agree with this. I think this is another of the myths (and
we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine, within the
parameters defined by the learner.>>>~~
Oh, it's so funny you posted this Pat!! I just posted about our car
conversation which was exactly about this topic but I hadn't even read
your post yet!! Neato.
I think this is where you get into semantics. Yes, teaching happens.
But when we really look at it being all within the learner, then
teaching is irrelevant and learning is everything. I don't expect my
children to learn in a vacuum. I don't "teach" them either. So what is
left?
Sharing information as it's relevant to the learner, learning
alongside each other, sharing excitement/passions/interests with each
other.
None of that is actively "teaching" anything.
But within lies a LOT of learning.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
unschooling, and I don't personally know of any radical unschoolers
who would agree with this. I think this is another of the myths (and
we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine, within the
parameters defined by the learner.>>>~~
Oh, it's so funny you posted this Pat!! I just posted about our car
conversation which was exactly about this topic but I hadn't even read
your post yet!! Neato.
I think this is where you get into semantics. Yes, teaching happens.
But when we really look at it being all within the learner, then
teaching is irrelevant and learning is everything. I don't expect my
children to learn in a vacuum. I don't "teach" them either. So what is
left?
Sharing information as it's relevant to the learner, learning
alongside each other, sharing excitement/passions/interests with each
other.
None of that is actively "teaching" anything.
But within lies a LOT of learning.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Manisha Kher
--- eriksmama2001 <scubamama@...> wrote:
words. Learning does not happen in a vacuum. I bring
interesting stuff in my kids lives. I show them stuff.
I answer questions when asked.
Whether any teaching is done or not, the learning
needs to happen within the learner. A teacher can
teach till cows come home and the child may still have
learned nothing. If I focus on teaching I'm likely to
lose sight of all the learning that happens.
For most teaching, the teacher sets the agenda. If it
were not for the second half of that statement, I
would've said "No, teaching is not fine". So I don't
see anything that I do as teaching.
On the other hand, my daughter goes for Taekwondo
lessons and her teacher does teach taekwondo.
Manisha
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> <<<I don't think "learning without teaching" is partI think I agree with the idea but would use different
> of radical
> unschooling, and I don't personally know of any
> radical unschoolers
> who would agree with this. I think this is another
> of the myths (and
> we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine,
> within the
> parameters defined by the learner.>>>
>
words. Learning does not happen in a vacuum. I bring
interesting stuff in my kids lives. I show them stuff.
I answer questions when asked.
Whether any teaching is done or not, the learning
needs to happen within the learner. A teacher can
teach till cows come home and the child may still have
learned nothing. If I focus on teaching I'm likely to
lose sight of all the learning that happens.
>Teaching is fine, within the parameters defined bythe learner.>>>
For most teaching, the teacher sets the agenda. If it
were not for the second half of that statement, I
would've said "No, teaching is not fine". So I don't
see anything that I do as teaching.
On the other hand, my daughter goes for Taekwondo
lessons and her teacher does teach taekwondo.
Manisha
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Lesa
Yes, but your DD wants to go to Taekwondo... and she knows in the classroom
that things may look different and be different then the way they are at
home.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stores.ebay.com/qtpiecraftsthings
-------Original Message-------
On the other hand, my daughter goes for Taekwondo
lessons and her teacher does teach taekwondo.
Manisha
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that things may look different and be different then the way they are at
home.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stores.ebay.com/qtpiecraftsthings
-------Original Message-------
On the other hand, my daughter goes for Taekwondo
lessons and her teacher does teach taekwondo.
Manisha
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/19/06, eriksmama2001 <scubamama@...> wrote:
the appearance that teaching forces a person to obtain material that
isn't necessarily in their realm of interest. Teach = school. I
don't believe that at all. When my child asks me how bread rises and
I show them by baking together and talking about yeast and sugar and
warm water and gases and flour and heat I *am* teaching. When I (get
enough guts to start) letting Emily start driving I will be *teaching*
her. When my child asks me how to spell a word and I do (or I ask
them how they think it is spelled) *am* teaching. Showing is
teaching. But somehow along the way it has started to have a dirty
connotation. Somehow there are people who have associated the word as
being very unschoolish and therefore verboten. When I go to my
stamping class in 15 minutes to show a new technique to the other
ladies in the class I *am* teaching. When I show someone how to knit I
*am* teaching. It's OK to teach. I even believe it is ok to even
initiate teaching. (gasp)
Michelle - who really does need to run out the door now that her pizza
has been eaten and her bags are packed.
> This statement by a radically unschooling TCSer was posed on MDC'sI think that a lot of RU'ers are shy of the word teach because it has
> "Learning at Home and Beyond". What are your thoughts?
>
> <<<I don't think "learning without teaching" is part of radical
> unschooling, and I don't personally know of any radical unschoolers
> who would agree with this. I think this is another of the myths (and
> we need to sticky that thread!). Teaching is fine, within the
> parameters defined by the learner.>>>
>
>
the appearance that teaching forces a person to obtain material that
isn't necessarily in their realm of interest. Teach = school. I
don't believe that at all. When my child asks me how bread rises and
I show them by baking together and talking about yeast and sugar and
warm water and gases and flour and heat I *am* teaching. When I (get
enough guts to start) letting Emily start driving I will be *teaching*
her. When my child asks me how to spell a word and I do (or I ask
them how they think it is spelled) *am* teaching. Showing is
teaching. But somehow along the way it has started to have a dirty
connotation. Somehow there are people who have associated the word as
being very unschoolish and therefore verboten. When I go to my
stamping class in 15 minutes to show a new technique to the other
ladies in the class I *am* teaching. When I show someone how to knit I
*am* teaching. It's OK to teach. I even believe it is ok to even
initiate teaching. (gasp)
Michelle - who really does need to run out the door now that her pizza
has been eaten and her bags are packed.
Michelle Leifur Reid
I thought it would be interesting to see what old Merriam Webster had
to say about the word "teach" Here are the 5 primary definitions:
1 a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to
know how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or
attitude <teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know
the disagreeable consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come
home late>
2 : to guide the studies of
3 : to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra>
4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known
and accepted <experience teaches us our limitations>
5 : to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>
I think that 3 and 4 are more in line with how unschoolers view the
teaching that they do. Just a bit more food for thought.
Michelle
to say about the word "teach" Here are the 5 primary definitions:
1 a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to
know how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or
attitude <teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know
the disagreeable consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come
home late>
2 : to guide the studies of
3 : to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra>
4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known
and accepted <experience teaches us our limitations>
5 : to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>
I think that 3 and 4 are more in line with how unschoolers view the
teaching that they do. Just a bit more food for thought.
Michelle
Manisha Kher
--- Lesa <lesajm@...> wrote:
on the learner's terms.
When people find out that we're homeschoolers, they
ask me who teaches them. Or more frequently, if my
husband does all the teaching. I work full-time and
this conversation happens at work. The person asking
this question is, no doubt, picturing dh teaching the
kids at home like a teacher teaches in school, while
I'm at work. Depending on my mood, I might say he
teaches them or both of us teach them. But they're
half-truths. The reality is that if the person asking
the question were to peep into out house she'll think
that neither of us teach our kids at all.
Manisha
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> Yes, but your DD wants to go to Taekwondo... and sheYup! That's an exmple of teaching being fine when done
> knows in the classroom
> that things may look different and be different then
> the way they are at
> home.
>
on the learner's terms.
When people find out that we're homeschoolers, they
ask me who teaches them. Or more frequently, if my
husband does all the teaching. I work full-time and
this conversation happens at work. The person asking
this question is, no doubt, picturing dh teaching the
kids at home like a teacher teaches in school, while
I'm at work. Depending on my mood, I might say he
teaches them or both of us teach them. But they're
half-truths. The reality is that if the person asking
the question were to peep into out house she'll think
that neither of us teach our kids at all.
Manisha
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 19, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Michelle Leifur Reid wrote:
avoided the word teaching for emotional reasons.
But there's an intellectual reason behind trying to see learning in
terms other than teaching. It helps people understand unschooling if
they turn their view point around from information --> child to child
<-- information.
If someone understands natural learning and wants to separate the
process of a child figuring things out for herself and a child taking
in the benefit of someone else's figuring out (like listening to or
reading explanations or watching demonstrations), it won't change the
process of natural learning.
The only reason I can see for an unschooler to separate "taking in
the benefit of someone else's figuring out" is if they've lumped it
with pushing information into a child (what I'd call teaching) and
are avoiding it.
Whether someone figures something out or seeks out the figuring out
someone else has done, it's all natural learning because the child
wants the information and is pulling it in.
The sticking point for most people trying to understand unschooling
is to see the value of a child pulling in what interests them and to
see that pushing information in isn't necessary. Those are the
questions they ask. (In round about ways.) So that's the information
that gets repeated over and over. And it's why people suggest
separating the concept of teaching from learning to help them see
what it is that's got them stuck in their understanding and help them
move on.
When people do ask about whether it's okay to answer kids' questions
or explain something (or some similar question) people say "Yes, of
course," but the question just doesn't come up often. And when it
does it seems to come more from a misunderstanding of what people are
trying to explain about how unschooling works than a deeply rooted
belief that's been growing ever since they heard about school as a
child. It's a notion that takes as long to correct as it took to
adopt it (usually a moment).
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But somehow along the way it has started to have a dirtyDirty suggests offensive like a flasher ;-) as though unschoolers
> connotation. Somehow there are people who have associated the word as
> being very unschoolish and therefore verboten.
avoided the word teaching for emotional reasons.
But there's an intellectual reason behind trying to see learning in
terms other than teaching. It helps people understand unschooling if
they turn their view point around from information --> child to child
<-- information.
If someone understands natural learning and wants to separate the
process of a child figuring things out for herself and a child taking
in the benefit of someone else's figuring out (like listening to or
reading explanations or watching demonstrations), it won't change the
process of natural learning.
The only reason I can see for an unschooler to separate "taking in
the benefit of someone else's figuring out" is if they've lumped it
with pushing information into a child (what I'd call teaching) and
are avoiding it.
Whether someone figures something out or seeks out the figuring out
someone else has done, it's all natural learning because the child
wants the information and is pulling it in.
The sticking point for most people trying to understand unschooling
is to see the value of a child pulling in what interests them and to
see that pushing information in isn't necessary. Those are the
questions they ask. (In round about ways.) So that's the information
that gets repeated over and over. And it's why people suggest
separating the concept of teaching from learning to help them see
what it is that's got them stuck in their understanding and help them
move on.
When people do ask about whether it's okay to answer kids' questions
or explain something (or some similar question) people say "Yes, of
course," but the question just doesn't come up often. And when it
does it seems to come more from a misunderstanding of what people are
trying to explain about how unschooling works than a deeply rooted
belief that's been growing ever since they heard about school as a
child. It's a notion that takes as long to correct as it took to
adopt it (usually a moment).
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: pamperedmichelle@...
When my child asks me how bread rises and
I show them by baking together and talking about yeast and sugar and
warm water and gases and flour and heat I *am* teaching.
-=-=-=-=-
If they aren't learning, is teaching still taking place?
-=-=-=-=-
When I (get enough guts to start) letting Emily start driving I will
be *teaching*
her.
-=-=-=-
Not unless she's willing to learn.
-=-=-=-=-
When my child asks me how to spell a word and I do (or I ask
them how they think it is spelled) *am* teaching.
-=-=-=-
Naw---that's spelling a word.
-==-=-=-
When I go to my stamping class in 15 minutes to show a new technique
to the other
ladies in the class I *am* teaching. When I show someone how to knit I
*am* teaching.
-=-=-
Not if they aren't *LEARNING*.
They are two completely different acts.
Learning can happen in the absence of teaching.
Teaching can't happen in the absence of learning.
~Kelly
"Wisdom begins in Wonder." ~Socrates
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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From: pamperedmichelle@...
When my child asks me how bread rises and
I show them by baking together and talking about yeast and sugar and
warm water and gases and flour and heat I *am* teaching.
-=-=-=-=-
If they aren't learning, is teaching still taking place?
-=-=-=-=-
When I (get enough guts to start) letting Emily start driving I will
be *teaching*
her.
-=-=-=-
Not unless she's willing to learn.
-=-=-=-=-
When my child asks me how to spell a word and I do (or I ask
them how they think it is spelled) *am* teaching.
-=-=-=-
Naw---that's spelling a word.
-==-=-=-
When I go to my stamping class in 15 minutes to show a new technique
to the other
ladies in the class I *am* teaching. When I show someone how to knit I
*am* teaching.
-=-=-
Not if they aren't *LEARNING*.
They are two completely different acts.
Learning can happen in the absence of teaching.
Teaching can't happen in the absence of learning.
~Kelly
"Wisdom begins in Wonder." ~Socrates
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Deb
--- In [email protected], Manisha Kher <m_kher@...>
wrote:
us. Someone asked DS a few years ago (he was maybe 5ish at the time)
if he liked having Daddy as his teacher (I work fulltime also) and
he said "I teach myself". One time someone asked him about it and he
said "I learn by doing stuff"
--Deb
wrote:
>LOL Same here - although when people ask, I usually say Neither of
>
> When people find out that we're homeschoolers, they
> ask me who teaches them. Or more frequently, if my
> husband does all the teaching. I work full-time and
> this conversation happens at work. The person asking
> this question is, no doubt, picturing dh teaching the
> kids at home like a teacher teaches in school, while
> I'm at work. Depending on my mood, I might say he
> teaches them or both of us teach them. But they're
> half-truths. The reality is that if the person asking
> the question were to peep into out house she'll think
> that neither of us teach our kids at all.
>
> Manisha
>
us. Someone asked DS a few years ago (he was maybe 5ish at the time)
if he liked having Daddy as his teacher (I work fulltime also) and
he said "I teach myself". One time someone asked him about it and he
said "I learn by doing stuff"
--Deb
Manisha Kher
--- Deb <soggyboysmom@...> wrote:
I'm afraid that if I say neither of us teach, it will
lead to lengthy conversations about unschooling that
I'd rather not have with all of the folks I meet at
the proverbial water cooler. I have explained it a bit
more to people I hang out with. Now that I think of
it, I've often said "She learns a lot on her own",
without explicitly anwering the who teaches question.
Manisha
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> >I can imaging DD saying something similar.
> LOL Same here - although when people ask, I usually
> say Neither of
> us. Someone asked DS a few years ago (he was maybe
> 5ish at the time)
> if he liked having Daddy as his teacher (I work
> fulltime also) and
> he said "I teach myself". One time someone asked him
> about it and he
> said "I learn by doing stuff"
>
> --Deb
I'm afraid that if I say neither of us teach, it will
lead to lengthy conversations about unschooling that
I'd rather not have with all of the folks I meet at
the proverbial water cooler. I have explained it a bit
more to people I hang out with. Now that I think of
it, I've often said "She learns a lot on her own",
without explicitly anwering the who teaches question.
Manisha
__________________________________________________
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