Not responicble for others feelings?
Kimberly
Let me get this right, some here believe that no one is responible
for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you would be ok with
your child makeing someone else feel badly and you would not expect
or encourage them to make it better?
That would mean that each persons emotions are their own problems,
including the childs?
Sorry, I think this is something I am going to agree to disagree
on because we feel that it is respectable to try and make those
around us smile, specially when we do something to make them sad,
even if we did not mean it.
It does not shock me though, many here have said something to the
effect of kicking out a single mother and her 4 year old son with no
place to go regardless of the situation because it is negativly
effecting my childs emotions. It seems to me some here are extream,
I am sorry but no single person comes before everyone else in my
world. Hubby is in the military, sometimes it seems like we do not
even live in the same world so many others here do. To us, it looks
like people are being selfish and teaching that to their children
and that seems very unhealth to us. We believe in self sacrifice.
Not everyone is going to agree on everything all the time. And not
everything works for everyone all the time.
for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you would be ok with
your child makeing someone else feel badly and you would not expect
or encourage them to make it better?
That would mean that each persons emotions are their own problems,
including the childs?
Sorry, I think this is something I am going to agree to disagree
on because we feel that it is respectable to try and make those
around us smile, specially when we do something to make them sad,
even if we did not mean it.
It does not shock me though, many here have said something to the
effect of kicking out a single mother and her 4 year old son with no
place to go regardless of the situation because it is negativly
effecting my childs emotions. It seems to me some here are extream,
I am sorry but no single person comes before everyone else in my
world. Hubby is in the military, sometimes it seems like we do not
even live in the same world so many others here do. To us, it looks
like people are being selfish and teaching that to their children
and that seems very unhealth to us. We believe in self sacrifice.
Not everyone is going to agree on everything all the time. And not
everything works for everyone all the time.
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimberly [mailto:Kontessa_Rose@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Not responicble for others feelings?
<<<<Let me get this right, some here believe that no one is responible
for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you would be ok with
your child makeing someone else feel badly and you would not expect
or encourage them to make it better?
That would mean that each persons emotions are their own problems,
including the childs?
Sorry, I think this is something I am going to agree to disagree
on because we feel that it is respectable to try and make those
around us smile, specially when we do something to make them sad,
even if we did not mean it. >>>>
Hi, Kimberly,
I think you are reacting to my post about NVC? If so, I'd be happy to
clarify what I am saying if you'd find that helpful. I think it is
unhealthy for my children or me to be responsible for making each other feel
a certain way. I see this situation with my sister and her 4 year old
daughter, for example, where my sister will say "She (dd) won't LET me do
such and such a thing!" My sister lets herself be held hostage by her
child's emotions. That is not healthy communication in my opinion. It is
emotional bondage due to poor boundaries.
That doesn't mean that I don't care about other people's feelings (in fact,
quite the opposite! I am a very sensitive "feeling" type person) or that I
don't encourage and model to my children to care about the feelings of
others. For example, lately my daughter has picked up from her cousin this
sort of thing where they get mad at each other and they say "Well, then I
won't come to you birthday party! I won't be your friend anymore!" and I am
in there saying "Those sound like the kinds of words that are meant to hurt
people's feelings, not communicate how you are feeling or ideas about how to
resolve this. I'd like to hear words that talk about how you are feeling or
ideas on how to solve teh conflict. Can you please use those?" And I model
them.
Does that distinction make any sense to you?
I do not believe that each person's emotions are "their own problems", but I
do think it's important that each of us in our family own our emotions as
our own in order to communicate in a healthy, effective way about them.
Joan
From: Kimberly [mailto:Kontessa_Rose@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Not responicble for others feelings?
<<<<Let me get this right, some here believe that no one is responible
for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you would be ok with
your child makeing someone else feel badly and you would not expect
or encourage them to make it better?
That would mean that each persons emotions are their own problems,
including the childs?
Sorry, I think this is something I am going to agree to disagree
on because we feel that it is respectable to try and make those
around us smile, specially when we do something to make them sad,
even if we did not mean it. >>>>
Hi, Kimberly,
I think you are reacting to my post about NVC? If so, I'd be happy to
clarify what I am saying if you'd find that helpful. I think it is
unhealthy for my children or me to be responsible for making each other feel
a certain way. I see this situation with my sister and her 4 year old
daughter, for example, where my sister will say "She (dd) won't LET me do
such and such a thing!" My sister lets herself be held hostage by her
child's emotions. That is not healthy communication in my opinion. It is
emotional bondage due to poor boundaries.
That doesn't mean that I don't care about other people's feelings (in fact,
quite the opposite! I am a very sensitive "feeling" type person) or that I
don't encourage and model to my children to care about the feelings of
others. For example, lately my daughter has picked up from her cousin this
sort of thing where they get mad at each other and they say "Well, then I
won't come to you birthday party! I won't be your friend anymore!" and I am
in there saying "Those sound like the kinds of words that are meant to hurt
people's feelings, not communicate how you are feeling or ideas about how to
resolve this. I'd like to hear words that talk about how you are feeling or
ideas on how to solve teh conflict. Can you please use those?" And I model
them.
Does that distinction make any sense to you?
I do not believe that each person's emotions are "their own problems", but I
do think it's important that each of us in our family own our emotions as
our own in order to communicate in a healthy, effective way about them.
Joan
TreeGoddess
On Jul 11, 2004, at 5:39 PM, Kimberly wrote:
along the lines of you cannot "make" anyone feel anything. The only
person who can feel that emotion is yourself.... nobody can physically
MAKE you feel a certain way. I could jump out of a closet and yell
"Boo!" but whether you get scared or not is physically up to you and
you alone.
You can't be made to feel happy or sad or angry BY anyone. Only you
can choose to have those feelings.
I did not see anyone write anything along the lines of "say and do
whatever the you feel like and to hell with being kind." That's not
what was being said.
they did hurt someone's feelings I would likely (and privately) point
it out to them that their words can have an effect on people, but I
would not expect or encourage them to "make it better". That's
impossible. You simply cannot make anything all better for anyone but
yourself. Saying 'sorry' can sometimes help to make amends but ONLY if
the apology is heartfelt and never cajoled or demanded.
Modeling the behavior is the most effective way for your child to learn
socially acceptable ways of speaking and acting.
what they are. Feelings and emotions are part of every human... not
problems to be fixed, per se.
anyway. Lots of "respectable" people do nasty things every day.
Trying to teach your child that THEY are responsible for another
person's happiness is soooo not cool. We see the effects of that every
week on Oprah and Dr. Phil and through all the people in therapy. It
is just not physically possible to make other people happy. If it were
then there would never be any disagreements or wars.
health is placed *below* your (chosen) obligation to this woman? It's
not like anyone suggested that you tell her to leave just out of the
blue, ya know. Over and over you have written about all the mean
things she has done and said (screaming and yelling, guilt trips,
pouting, name calling, spanking her child, demanding rides, etc.). WHY
would you continue to support her if it is driving you crazy and you
feel that she's wrong? None of us here could know what this woman was
doing or not doing if you weren't hear telling us about it. You were
looking for input and advice; it was given; you chose to ignore it.
That's your prerogative, but don't come back acting like we're torch
carrying villagers demanding you to "oust the ogre".
you... your child doesn't rank higher than me? Than a random guy in
the grocery store? Than ANYBODY? That's hard for me to wrap my mind
around.
be forced to live it. Her needs, her self esteem, and her spirit do
not have to be "sacrificed" in order for others to live how they chose
to live. She deserves more from you and I *really* hope that I have
read your post all wrong.
-Tracy-
> [ Let me get this right, some here believe that no one is responibleNo, you've gotten it wrong. What I have seen being written is more
> for how they effect other peoples feelings?]
along the lines of you cannot "make" anyone feel anything. The only
person who can feel that emotion is yourself.... nobody can physically
MAKE you feel a certain way. I could jump out of a closet and yell
"Boo!" but whether you get scared or not is physically up to you and
you alone.
You can't be made to feel happy or sad or angry BY anyone. Only you
can choose to have those feelings.
I did not see anyone write anything along the lines of "say and do
whatever the you feel like and to hell with being kind." That's not
what was being said.
> [So you would be ok with your child makeing someone else feel badlyAgain, my child cannot "make" someone else feel ..... anything. If
> and you would not expect
> or encourage them to make it better? ]
they did hurt someone's feelings I would likely (and privately) point
it out to them that their words can have an effect on people, but I
would not expect or encourage them to "make it better". That's
impossible. You simply cannot make anything all better for anyone but
yourself. Saying 'sorry' can sometimes help to make amends but ONLY if
the apology is heartfelt and never cajoled or demanded.
Modeling the behavior is the most effective way for your child to learn
socially acceptable ways of speaking and acting.
> [That would mean that each persons emotions are their own problems,I would not suggest that emotions are "problems" actually. They are
> including the childs? ]
what they are. Feelings and emotions are part of every human... not
problems to be fixed, per se.
> [... we feel that it is respectable to try and make thoseThat is not realistic or healthy. Respectability is highly debatable
> around us smile, specially when we do something to make them sad,
> even if we did not mean it. ]
anyway. Lots of "respectable" people do nasty things every day.
Trying to teach your child that THEY are responsible for another
person's happiness is soooo not cool. We see the effects of that every
week on Oprah and Dr. Phil and through all the people in therapy. It
is just not physically possible to make other people happy. If it were
then there would never be any disagreements or wars.
> [ It does not shock me though, many here have said something to theThat's not reason enough for you??? Your child's emotional and mental
> effect of kicking out a single mother and her 4 year old son with no
> place to go regardless of the situation because it is negativly
> effecting my childs emotions. ]
health is placed *below* your (chosen) obligation to this woman? It's
not like anyone suggested that you tell her to leave just out of the
blue, ya know. Over and over you have written about all the mean
things she has done and said (screaming and yelling, guilt trips,
pouting, name calling, spanking her child, demanding rides, etc.). WHY
would you continue to support her if it is driving you crazy and you
feel that she's wrong? None of us here could know what this woman was
doing or not doing if you weren't hear telling us about it. You were
looking for input and advice; it was given; you chose to ignore it.
That's your prerogative, but don't come back acting like we're torch
carrying villagers demanding you to "oust the ogre".
> [I am sorry but no single person comes before everyone else in myReally?!? Wow. It is hard for me to imagine that. So....then to
> world. ]
you... your child doesn't rank higher than me? Than a random guy in
the grocery store? Than ANYBODY? That's hard for me to wrap my mind
around.
> [Hubby is in the military, sometimes it seems like we do notYOU might believe in it. Your DH might believe in it. Your DD needn't
> even live in the same world so many others here do. To us, it looks
> like people are being selfish and teaching that to their children
> and that seems very unhealth to us. We believe in self sacrifice. ]
be forced to live it. Her needs, her self esteem, and her spirit do
not have to be "sacrificed" in order for others to live how they chose
to live. She deserves more from you and I *really* hope that I have
read your post all wrong.
-Tracy-
Robyn Coburn
<<<I think you are reacting to my post about NVC? If so, I'd be happy to
clarify what I am saying if you'd find that helpful. I think it is
unhealthy for my children or me to be responsible for making each other feel
a certain way. I see this situation with my sister and her 4 year old
daughter, for example, where my sister will say "She (dd) won't LET me do
such and such a thing!" My sister lets herself be held hostage by her
child's emotions. That is not healthy communication in my opinion. It is
emotional bondage due to poor boundaries.>>>
I am really enjoying and appreciating your postings about specific NVC
conversations you have had with your kids in real situations. I find this
much more accessible and helpful than the theoretical explanations. Please
keep them coming as much as you feel good about. Thank you.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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clarify what I am saying if you'd find that helpful. I think it is
unhealthy for my children or me to be responsible for making each other feel
a certain way. I see this situation with my sister and her 4 year old
daughter, for example, where my sister will say "She (dd) won't LET me do
such and such a thing!" My sister lets herself be held hostage by her
child's emotions. That is not healthy communication in my opinion. It is
emotional bondage due to poor boundaries.>>>
I am really enjoying and appreciating your postings about specific NVC
conversations you have had with your kids in real situations. I find this
much more accessible and helpful than the theoretical explanations. Please
keep them coming as much as you feel good about. Thank you.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004
Robyn Coburn
<<<<> Hubby is in the military, sometimes it seems like we do not
believe in self sacrifice too. It is not a belief that necessarily has
universally positive results.
Many people are Unschooling in the Military, including folks who are serving
in Germany and elsewhere OS. Please don't imply that those of us who are not
are somehow being teaching selfishness because we put our own children first
in their own homes.
It is true that there are self-centered parents in the world. (My dh's
parents probably take the prize for that.) Their children grow up feeling
secondary and less than, and it takes work to undo - but they don't all grow
up feeling like they should be *more* important than other people.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004
> even live in the same world so many others here do. To us, it looksThe people strapping bombs to their chests and walking into shopping malls
> like people are being selfish and teaching that to their children
> and that seems very unhealth to us. We believe in self sacrifice.>>>
believe in self sacrifice too. It is not a belief that necessarily has
universally positive results.
Many people are Unschooling in the Military, including folks who are serving
in Germany and elsewhere OS. Please don't imply that those of us who are not
are somehow being teaching selfishness because we put our own children first
in their own homes.
It is true that there are self-centered parents in the world. (My dh's
parents probably take the prize for that.) Their children grow up feeling
secondary and less than, and it takes work to undo - but they don't all grow
up feeling like they should be *more* important than other people.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Dina Fraize
hi joan
i was interested in the cohousing thing a while back
but it didnt pan out for us but i am glad to see you
turn up here. funny how paths cross
I agree with what you are saying about feelings are
your own. i try to instill in my children that they
have only 2 "rules" in our family, kindness and
safety, this encompasses alot and they are encouraged
to think and decide for themselves if what they are
doing/saying is kind and safe. I think being
responsible for others reactions and feelings is very
unhealthy but being responsible for your actions and
words is the key.
love and peace
dina--- Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
<salgenovese@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
i was interested in the cohousing thing a while back
but it didnt pan out for us but i am glad to see you
turn up here. funny how paths cross
I agree with what you are saying about feelings are
your own. i try to instill in my children that they
have only 2 "rules" in our family, kindness and
safety, this encompasses alot and they are encouraged
to think and decide for themselves if what they are
doing/saying is kind and safe. I think being
responsible for others reactions and feelings is very
unhealthy but being responsible for your actions and
words is the key.
love and peace
dina--- Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
<salgenovese@...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----__________________________________
> From: Kimberly [mailto:Kontessa_Rose@...]
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Not responicble for
> others feelings?
>
>
> <<<<Let me get this right, some here believe that no
> one is responible
> for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you
> would be ok with
> your child makeing someone else feel badly and you
> would not expect
> or encourage them to make it better?
>
> That would mean that each persons emotions are
> their own problems,
> including the childs?
>
> Sorry, I think this is something I am going to
> agree to disagree
> on because we feel that it is respectable to try and
> make those
> around us smile, specially when we do something to
> make them sad,
> even if we did not mean it. >>>>
>
> Hi, Kimberly,
>
> I think you are reacting to my post about NVC? If
> so, I'd be happy to
> clarify what I am saying if you'd find that helpful.
> I think it is
> unhealthy for my children or me to be responsible
> for making each other feel
> a certain way. I see this situation with my sister
> and her 4 year old
> daughter, for example, where my sister will say "She
> (dd) won't LET me do
> such and such a thing!" My sister lets herself be
> held hostage by her
> child's emotions. That is not healthy communication
> in my opinion. It is
> emotional bondage due to poor boundaries.
>
> That doesn't mean that I don't care about other
> people's feelings (in fact,
> quite the opposite! I am a very sensitive "feeling"
> type person) or that I
> don't encourage and model to my children to care
> about the feelings of
> others. For example, lately my daughter has picked
> up from her cousin this
> sort of thing where they get mad at each other and
> they say "Well, then I
> won't come to you birthday party! I won't be your
> friend anymore!" and I am
> in there saying "Those sound like the kinds of words
> that are meant to hurt
> people's feelings, not communicate how you are
> feeling or ideas about how to
> resolve this. I'd like to hear words that talk
> about how you are feeling or
> ideas on how to solve teh conflict. Can you please
> use those?" And I model
> them.
>
> Does that distinction make any sense to you?
>
> I do not believe that each person's emotions are
> "their own problems", but I
> do think it's important that each of us in our
> family own our emotions as
> our own in order to communicate in a healthy,
> effective way about them.
>
> Joan
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Nice to see you here, Dina! Thought I recognized your name.
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Fraize [mailto:dinafraize@...]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Not responicble for others feelings?
hi joan
i was interested in the cohousing thing a while back
but it didnt pan out for us but i am glad to see you
turn up here. funny how paths cross>>>>
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Fraize [mailto:dinafraize@...]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Not responicble for others feelings?
hi joan
i was interested in the cohousing thing a while back
but it didnt pan out for us but i am glad to see you
turn up here. funny how paths cross>>>>
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/2004 11:16:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dinafraize@... writes:
i try to instill in my children that they
have only 2 "rules" in our family, kindness and
safety, this encompasses alot and they are encouraged
to think and decide for themselves if what they are
doing/saying is kind and safe. <<<
Maybe thinking of them as principles rather than rules would be like taking
a giant step!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dinafraize@... writes:
i try to instill in my children that they
have only 2 "rules" in our family, kindness and
safety, this encompasses alot and they are encouraged
to think and decide for themselves if what they are
doing/saying is kind and safe. <<<
Maybe thinking of them as principles rather than rules would be like taking
a giant step!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Ferry
When I first started to change the way I parent Tyler
(about 9 years ago) my ex-husband was befuddled by the
idea of responsibility for feelings. He just couldn't
get his mind around the idea that we aren't
responsible for anyone else's happiness or
unhappiness. Unfortunately, I didn't have the words to
communicate what I meant back then so we tended to
just go around and around. What I would say to him
now, if he ever asked �which he won't, but that's
beside the point ; ) :
Noone is EVER resonsible for anyone else's happiness
or unhappiness. We are each only responsible for our
own emotions-- BUT that responsibility starts with
being conscious of our every thought, word or action
that we let out into the world. We must weigh those
very carefully before letting them out. That is our
ultimate responsibility, to be true to life and true
to love as much as possible. To own our mistakes
graciously, to not hold the past (even the immediate
past...as in a dozen broken eggs or a smashed up car
or hateful words) against one another. To try even
harder next time.
That's not to say that we don't have our reactions in
our family. Believe me, we do. We have them and then
we try to reign the emotions back in and own them as
our own. We talk about it as calmly as we can. If we
can't talk about it calmly, we ask for a break and the
chance to come back to it when we've settled down.
I think it is so important to let our children know
that we, as adults are fallible...so that they can
have permission to make their mistakes as well,
without judgement or condemnation or punishment. But
if we're already punishing ourselves, well...of course
it'll be heaped on the kids, too.
I've been making an effort to point out to Tyler when
I am being emotional about something that the emotion
is mine, not his. That I may not like what his
behavior is...leaving empty popsicle wrappers all over
the house, eating like a neanderthal, talking back
sarcastically when I ask him for help with
something...but I love him and I want us to be able to
continue to grow together, to learn to communicate in
more and more healthy ways. I also tell him that I'm
trying to learn not to have the same old reactions.
Inevitalbly he lets me know that he's also trying to
remember to change his behavior.
Parenting is just such a hard job. Every single day
some major pattern I have carried forward from my own
childhood gets challenged and I have to work to
surrender my need to control and to be right. I try to
remind myself that it's a hard job for Tyler to be my
kid, because so often I have parented him using such
old tapes...outdated information, habitual and
reactive. Lila who is one will have a slightly easier
time of it because I've learned so much of what not to
do.
And yet, even the things that I thought I'd gotten
past will arise if I'm overtired or not making time
for my own needs to be met.
Cheers,
Kelly
--- Kimberly <Kontessa_Rose@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
(about 9 years ago) my ex-husband was befuddled by the
idea of responsibility for feelings. He just couldn't
get his mind around the idea that we aren't
responsible for anyone else's happiness or
unhappiness. Unfortunately, I didn't have the words to
communicate what I meant back then so we tended to
just go around and around. What I would say to him
now, if he ever asked �which he won't, but that's
beside the point ; ) :
Noone is EVER resonsible for anyone else's happiness
or unhappiness. We are each only responsible for our
own emotions-- BUT that responsibility starts with
being conscious of our every thought, word or action
that we let out into the world. We must weigh those
very carefully before letting them out. That is our
ultimate responsibility, to be true to life and true
to love as much as possible. To own our mistakes
graciously, to not hold the past (even the immediate
past...as in a dozen broken eggs or a smashed up car
or hateful words) against one another. To try even
harder next time.
That's not to say that we don't have our reactions in
our family. Believe me, we do. We have them and then
we try to reign the emotions back in and own them as
our own. We talk about it as calmly as we can. If we
can't talk about it calmly, we ask for a break and the
chance to come back to it when we've settled down.
I think it is so important to let our children know
that we, as adults are fallible...so that they can
have permission to make their mistakes as well,
without judgement or condemnation or punishment. But
if we're already punishing ourselves, well...of course
it'll be heaped on the kids, too.
I've been making an effort to point out to Tyler when
I am being emotional about something that the emotion
is mine, not his. That I may not like what his
behavior is...leaving empty popsicle wrappers all over
the house, eating like a neanderthal, talking back
sarcastically when I ask him for help with
something...but I love him and I want us to be able to
continue to grow together, to learn to communicate in
more and more healthy ways. I also tell him that I'm
trying to learn not to have the same old reactions.
Inevitalbly he lets me know that he's also trying to
remember to change his behavior.
Parenting is just such a hard job. Every single day
some major pattern I have carried forward from my own
childhood gets challenged and I have to work to
surrender my need to control and to be right. I try to
remind myself that it's a hard job for Tyler to be my
kid, because so often I have parented him using such
old tapes...outdated information, habitual and
reactive. Lila who is one will have a slightly easier
time of it because I've learned so much of what not to
do.
And yet, even the things that I thought I'd gotten
past will arise if I'm overtired or not making time
for my own needs to be met.
Cheers,
Kelly
--- Kimberly <Kontessa_Rose@...> wrote:
> Let me get this right, some here believe that no__________________________________
> one is responible
> for how they effect other peoples feelings? So you
> would be ok with
> your child makeing someone else feel badly and you
> would not expect
> or encourage them to make it better?
>
> That would mean that each persons emotions are
> their own problems,
> including the childs?
>
> Sorry, I think this is something I am going to
> agree to disagree
> on because we feel that it is respectable to try and
> make those
> around us smile, specially when we do something to
> make them sad,
> even if we did not mean it.
>
> It does not shock me though, many here have said
> something to the
> effect of kicking out a single mother and her 4 year
> old son with no
> place to go regardless of the situation because it
> is negativly
> effecting my childs emotions. It seems to me some
> here are extream,
> I am sorry but no single person comes before
> everyone else in my
> world. Hubby is in the military, sometimes it seems
> like we do not
> even live in the same world so many others here do.
> To us, it looks
> like people are being selfish and teaching that to
> their children
> and that seems very unhealth to us. We believe in
> self sacrifice.
>
> Not everyone is going to agree on everything all
> the time. And not
> everything works for everyone all the time.
>
>
>
>
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Dina Fraize
I do have to comment here. I have signed off other
email unschooling lists because of the kind of jumping
on wording and a harsh judgemental atmosphere. I like
to have a respectful and non judging atmosphere and a
forum to not be afraid to put out ideas and ask
questions without fear of being judged. We are all
trying to do our best with our children and i think
when we share our experiences it is very helpful, but
i will have to sign off this list also if it becomes a
jump on people and judge thing instead of a "this is
what works for me in my family" . We are all on a
journey and it will take twists and turns and
rethinking and rethinking again but i feel that it is
best done in an atmosphere of love and caring and
attraction not promotion. Every family is different
and what works in one wont always work in another. I
know email sometimes comes out harsher than it is
meant to and without the warmth that it is intended.
i have noticed a negative and judging feeling thing
out there on this list and wonder if i am the only one
feeling this. I am very confident in my lifestyle
choice and family philosophy but if i was new in
establishing this i would definately be afraid to ask
the questions if i thought i would be slammed
verbally.
love and peace
dina
--- kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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email unschooling lists because of the kind of jumping
on wording and a harsh judgemental atmosphere. I like
to have a respectful and non judging atmosphere and a
forum to not be afraid to put out ideas and ask
questions without fear of being judged. We are all
trying to do our best with our children and i think
when we share our experiences it is very helpful, but
i will have to sign off this list also if it becomes a
jump on people and judge thing instead of a "this is
what works for me in my family" . We are all on a
journey and it will take twists and turns and
rethinking and rethinking again but i feel that it is
best done in an atmosphere of love and caring and
attraction not promotion. Every family is different
and what works in one wont always work in another. I
know email sometimes comes out harsher than it is
meant to and without the warmth that it is intended.
i have noticed a negative and judging feeling thing
out there on this list and wonder if i am the only one
feeling this. I am very confident in my lifestyle
choice and family philosophy but if i was new in
establishing this i would definately be afraid to ask
the questions if i thought i would be slammed
verbally.
love and peace
dina
--- kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/12/2004 11:16:09 AM Eastern__________________________________
> Daylight Time,
> dinafraize@... writes:
>
> i try to instill in my children that they
> have only 2 "rules" in our family, kindness and
> safety, this encompasses alot and they are
> encouraged
> to think and decide for themselves if what they are
> doing/saying is kind and safe. <<<
>
>
> Maybe thinking of them as principles rather than
> rules would be like taking
> a giant step!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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Andrea
"i would definately be afraid to ask
the questions if i thought i would be slammed
verbally. "
Thanks Dina, I am sure you represent many on the list. I do agree, but
for the sake of the writers who may not write with warmth and seem
blunt, they may not have the time to write with that much consciousness,
or don't write very well.writing is so different than speaking
especially in a subject area that can have so many interpretations! I
have to say that the folks who feel judged should also look at
themselves and ask if they are maybe being sensitive. Honesty can be
hard to digest (My dp was brutally honest, and I have had to show him
how he can be both honest and kind), and then we react by speaking from
a place of hurt and frustration rather than compassion. There are
things that get said on this list that I don't agree with or that I
react very strongly to. It's my reaction that I have to be careful of.
Just hitting reply without thinking for a little bit (how my words
affect others)can lead to some feet in the mouth problems. Some of the
more experienced folks here have probably been giving advice for a long
time, and may forget what it is like to have no experience yet of what
unschooling really means, and how righteous it can sound (yes, I love
you guys, but sometimes you do sound righteous). That being said, there
are indeed some writers who could learn to put more compassion in their
writing, and less criticism, even if they are discouraged or in
disagreement. We are all striving for the same outcome, but we are
diverse. The only reason we are here, officially, is to talk about
unschooling.a subject that can be interpreted differently, in subtle
ways, or work a little differently in each household.
Andrea in California
Mom to Tobin (4)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the questions if i thought i would be slammed
verbally. "
Thanks Dina, I am sure you represent many on the list. I do agree, but
for the sake of the writers who may not write with warmth and seem
blunt, they may not have the time to write with that much consciousness,
or don't write very well.writing is so different than speaking
especially in a subject area that can have so many interpretations! I
have to say that the folks who feel judged should also look at
themselves and ask if they are maybe being sensitive. Honesty can be
hard to digest (My dp was brutally honest, and I have had to show him
how he can be both honest and kind), and then we react by speaking from
a place of hurt and frustration rather than compassion. There are
things that get said on this list that I don't agree with or that I
react very strongly to. It's my reaction that I have to be careful of.
Just hitting reply without thinking for a little bit (how my words
affect others)can lead to some feet in the mouth problems. Some of the
more experienced folks here have probably been giving advice for a long
time, and may forget what it is like to have no experience yet of what
unschooling really means, and how righteous it can sound (yes, I love
you guys, but sometimes you do sound righteous). That being said, there
are indeed some writers who could learn to put more compassion in their
writing, and less criticism, even if they are discouraged or in
disagreement. We are all striving for the same outcome, but we are
diverse. The only reason we are here, officially, is to talk about
unschooling.a subject that can be interpreted differently, in subtle
ways, or work a little differently in each household.
Andrea in California
Mom to Tobin (4)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Syndi
>Dina,
> i have noticed a negative and judging feeling thing
> out there on this list and wonder if i am the only one
> feeling this. I am very confident in my lifestyle
> choice and family philosophy but if i was new in
> establishing this i would definately be afraid to ask
> the questions if i thought i would be slammed
> verbally.
>
> love and peace
> dina
I was on a list at one time (unschooling) with a very popular
individual on that list. I said the wrong thing and got slammed
(flamed?) big time. So I am sometimes hesitant to ask or even
respond to anyones questions. But so far on this list I haven't had
any trouble (THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THAT!) Maybe everyone doesn't
agree with everyone, but it seems to me the majority do their best to
just help with the unschooling process, and help direct each other in
the right direction.
If you haven't been here very long, stay alittle longer, so far its
been good for our family, and me, the one who reads all this stuff
all the time
syndi
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/2004 6:32:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Onesnotenough@... writes:
I am sometimes hesitant to ask or even
respond to anyones questions. But so far on this list I haven't had
any trouble (THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THAT!) Maybe everyone doesn't
agree with everyone, but it seems to me the majority do their best to
just help with the unschooling process, and help direct each other in
the right direction.
I just unsubbed from a list i thought was a good one till i tried to answer
someones question since it was actually something i had been through. i got
reamed for answering her before my 2 weeks of reading was up!!! didnt matter
that i could actually add something to the conversation....
this list is SOOOOOOOO much better!!
Lin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Onesnotenough@... writes:
I am sometimes hesitant to ask or even
respond to anyones questions. But so far on this list I haven't had
any trouble (THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THAT!) Maybe everyone doesn't
agree with everyone, but it seems to me the majority do their best to
just help with the unschooling process, and help direct each other in
the right direction.
I just unsubbed from a list i thought was a good one till i tried to answer
someones question since it was actually something i had been through. i got
reamed for answering her before my 2 weeks of reading was up!!! didnt matter
that i could actually add something to the conversation....
this list is SOOOOOOOO much better!!
Lin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Syndi
.
> Yep, that was the list I was at too. Glad this one was started!Its so much nicer here!
>to answer
>
>
> I just unsubbed from a list i thought was a good one till i tried
> someones question since it was actually something i had beenthrough. i got
> reamed for answering her before my 2 weeks of reading was up!!!didnt matter
> that i could actually add something to the conversation....
> this list is SOOOOOOOO much better!!
> Lin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:18 PM, Syndi wrote:
posted we sent you a nice note, privately.
Here is what it said:
<<I'm returning the posts below since you only joined a couple of days
ago.
You sent good information, and I'll forward it to the mom to whom it
was aimed. <g>
In case you didn't get the e-mail with the list policies, there's
information at the yahoogroups site and also here:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/info
Guess we all need a reminder to not believe everything we read.
-pam
> i gotYou were sent the list guidelines and you ignored them and when you
>> reamed for answering her before my 2 weeks of reading was up!!!
> didnt matter
>> that i could actually add something to the conversation....
>> this list is SOOOOOOOO much better!!
>> Lin
>>
>>
posted we sent you a nice note, privately.
Here is what it said:
<<I'm returning the posts below since you only joined a couple of days
ago.
You sent good information, and I'll forward it to the mom to whom it
was aimed. <g>
In case you didn't get the e-mail with the list policies, there's
information at the yahoogroups site and also here:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/info
>>In what universe does the above note get described as "I got reamed?"
Guess we all need a reminder to not believe everything we read.
-pam
Kimberly
Dina and Andrea, thank you both for posting about this. I have not
caught up yet, and in fact wish to go back over some posts in a
moment. But I wanted to post because you both touched on some things
that I and others have been feeling but have not been brave enough
to post about. Many of us are knew to this and feel jumped on. I
know I in turn felt that way and jumped back. It was not right of me
and I am sorry.
"then we react by speaking from a place of hurt and frustration
rather than compassion." --- That was me when I started this thread,
and I hope to not do that again.
When the advice seems laced with poison, not even intended, it is
hard to get past. I find that in some groups people post more to see
themselves talk and to have others agree than to really help people.
But I might be seeing that wrong as well. Either way, I am not
leaving, because learning to do the best for my child is more
important then my feelings or pride right now.
-sigh- internet communication is not easy.
Blessings,
Kimmy
caught up yet, and in fact wish to go back over some posts in a
moment. But I wanted to post because you both touched on some things
that I and others have been feeling but have not been brave enough
to post about. Many of us are knew to this and feel jumped on. I
know I in turn felt that way and jumped back. It was not right of me
and I am sorry.
"then we react by speaking from a place of hurt and frustration
rather than compassion." --- That was me when I started this thread,
and I hope to not do that again.
When the advice seems laced with poison, not even intended, it is
hard to get past. I find that in some groups people post more to see
themselves talk and to have others agree than to really help people.
But I might be seeing that wrong as well. Either way, I am not
leaving, because learning to do the best for my child is more
important then my feelings or pride right now.
-sigh- internet communication is not easy.
Blessings,
Kimmy
>
>
>
> Andrea in California
>
> Mom to Tobin (4)
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/13/2004 2:29:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
You were sent the list guidelines and you ignored them and when you
posted we sent you a nice note, privately.
nice that you posted a private message to the list-- didnt think that as
allowed either- and yes to me i did nothing wrong- but i guess since private e
mails are posted public fine-- i thought this was a place to learn about
unschooling etc, i guess it is turning into something i dont wand to be part of.
I will have to muddle my way thru alone if this is how it is-- anyone
wishing to continue this thread will have to e mail me personally i am off this
list .
i was here for my kids and maybe to help a little but i guess that was too
much to ask for.
feel free to unsub me from any other lists you are moderating.
Lin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
You were sent the list guidelines and you ignored them and when you
posted we sent you a nice note, privately.
nice that you posted a private message to the list-- didnt think that as
allowed either- and yes to me i did nothing wrong- but i guess since private e
mails are posted public fine-- i thought this was a place to learn about
unschooling etc, i guess it is turning into something i dont wand to be part of.
I will have to muddle my way thru alone if this is how it is-- anyone
wishing to continue this thread will have to e mail me personally i am off this
list .
i was here for my kids and maybe to help a little but i guess that was too
much to ask for.
feel free to unsub me from any other lists you are moderating.
Lin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jul 13, 2004, at 7:38 AM, shellby@... wrote:
email. No code of netiquette was broken.
In all fairness you have to know that Pam was only clearing up any
misunderstanding that you had had and -- since you had already told
THIS group that you were "reamed" -- Pam let this list know that it
wasn't the case. Sorry to see that you're leaving.
-Tracy-
> nice that you posted a private message to the list-- didnt think thatPam was the author of that email, hon, she didn't forward YOUR private
> as
> allowed either- and yes to me i did nothing wrong- but i guess since
> private e
> mails are posted public fine
email. No code of netiquette was broken.
In all fairness you have to know that Pam was only clearing up any
misunderstanding that you had had and -- since you had already told
THIS group that you were "reamed" -- Pam let this list know that it
wasn't the case. Sorry to see that you're leaving.
-Tracy-
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Kimberly"
<Kontessa_Rose@h...> wrote:
Either way, I am not
Could you please write out what you want and don't want from this
group? I ask this because you seem very unhappy with what you are
getting out of this group and yet you say you're going to stay.
I'm not trying to get you to leave, really! Not my place, I'm just a
newbie. I do think that you should be able to have a virtual
community that gives you what you want. There are a ton of parenting
groups on Yahoo. There are many support groups, where people will
support you where you are today and not tell you to change. There are
lots of ways to learn about unschooling/mindful parenting without
posting about your family. This is a discussion group and you will
ALWAYS hear "do it in a more unschooling way" as the answer to
problems you post. If you complain about that, yeh, people aren't
going to be extremely supportive in response.
It was hard for me to go from AP support lists to unschooling
discussions lists--very different. I considered giving up, esp. since
my kids are so young. But now I'm okay with the style of these
groups. I would not have stayed if I were unhappy! I don't think I
can do the best for my kids if I am feeling bad about where I am. I
want to change how I'm parenting, yes, but I can do that without guilt
or other negative emotions.
Kimmy, I hope this group can work for you, I really do.
--aj
<Kontessa_Rose@h...> wrote:
Either way, I am not
> leaving, because learning to do the best for my child is moreKimmy!
> important then my feelings or pride right now.
>
> -sigh- internet communication is not easy.
>
> Blessings,
> Kimmy
Could you please write out what you want and don't want from this
group? I ask this because you seem very unhappy with what you are
getting out of this group and yet you say you're going to stay.
I'm not trying to get you to leave, really! Not my place, I'm just a
newbie. I do think that you should be able to have a virtual
community that gives you what you want. There are a ton of parenting
groups on Yahoo. There are many support groups, where people will
support you where you are today and not tell you to change. There are
lots of ways to learn about unschooling/mindful parenting without
posting about your family. This is a discussion group and you will
ALWAYS hear "do it in a more unschooling way" as the answer to
problems you post. If you complain about that, yeh, people aren't
going to be extremely supportive in response.
It was hard for me to go from AP support lists to unschooling
discussions lists--very different. I considered giving up, esp. since
my kids are so young. But now I'm okay with the style of these
groups. I would not have stayed if I were unhappy! I don't think I
can do the best for my kids if I am feeling bad about where I am. I
want to change how I'm parenting, yes, but I can do that without guilt
or other negative emotions.
Kimmy, I hope this group can work for you, I really do.
--aj
[email protected]
I have to admit that I almost unsubbed from this list also. I'm so glad
that I didn't. But the way I handle it for now is to take note of whose posting
style speaks to me more. I think alot of times advise is repeated in
different ways by different people. Usually the advise is the same but the tone is
different. I read the posts from those who are more helpful for me
personally and skip the posts from those who make me have negative feelings. No one
is forced to read everything posted to the list.
To Ren and all... Thank you so much for doing this. Unschooling is changing
my life and this list is part of it.
I hope this helps other newbies stick with it. There is so much to learn
here.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that I didn't. But the way I handle it for now is to take note of whose posting
style speaks to me more. I think alot of times advise is repeated in
different ways by different people. Usually the advise is the same but the tone is
different. I read the posts from those who are more helpful for me
personally and skip the posts from those who make me have negative feelings. No one
is forced to read everything posted to the list.
To Ren and all... Thank you so much for doing this. Unschooling is changing
my life and this list is part of it.
I hope this helps other newbies stick with it. There is so much to learn
here.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]