Learning to read...
susangould1
Hi,
I am new to unschooling. I agree with the need to raise HAPPY,
healthy, curious kids. Three weeks ago I pulled my kids from school
for a few reasons. My daughter is 8yrs old and she seems to have
had the zest for learning and life sucked out of her by the school
system BUT I am confident that she will regain that zest for life
and will do fine because she can read and write. My son who is 5
1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
teach him about phonics etc..? I know I need to trust in my kids
but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling. Does it
actually work????
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sue
I am new to unschooling. I agree with the need to raise HAPPY,
healthy, curious kids. Three weeks ago I pulled my kids from school
for a few reasons. My daughter is 8yrs old and she seems to have
had the zest for learning and life sucked out of her by the school
system BUT I am confident that she will regain that zest for life
and will do fine because she can read and write. My son who is 5
1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
teach him about phonics etc..? I know I need to trust in my kids
but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling. Does it
actually work????
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sue
Deb
Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who has never been
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitles, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitles, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
Melissa
I've got a five yo right now who is learning to read, without
teaching. He's learning from being read to, whether it's books, video
games, road signs, menu's or recipes. Those are the ones that top my
mind right now, he WANTS to use those things, and asks us to read
them to him. He's gotten quite a few sight words down...enough to
play animal crossing without someone constantly reading to him. Best
of all he's experimenting with letters and sounds, so he'll write
letters to us, with the ones he knows the pronunciation of (started
with 's', 'a', and 'm', and asks us to read it aloud. He laughs when
we pronounce it phonetically. We also write a lot for him, since he
loves to tell stories, and send them to people as letters. That's
been a big impetus for him, because he likes to look over what we've
written and make sure we're spelling right (he knows 'gold',
'dragon', 'cowboy', those types of words.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
teaching. He's learning from being read to, whether it's books, video
games, road signs, menu's or recipes. Those are the ones that top my
mind right now, he WANTS to use those things, and asks us to read
them to him. He's gotten quite a few sight words down...enough to
play animal crossing without someone constantly reading to him. Best
of all he's experimenting with letters and sounds, so he'll write
letters to us, with the ones he knows the pronunciation of (started
with 's', 'a', and 'm', and asks us to read it aloud. He laughs when
we pronounce it phonetically. We also write a lot for him, since he
loves to tell stories, and send them to people as letters. That's
been a big impetus for him, because he likes to look over what we've
written and make sure we're spelling right (he knows 'gold',
'dragon', 'cowboy', those types of words.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Oct 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, Deb wrote:
> So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
> don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
> find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
>
> Life goes on and learning happens
> --Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 17, 2006, at 11:31 AM, susangould1 wrote:
of people do but they shouldn't. It just makes them unhappy and makes
the 5 1/2 yos who can't unhappy and rewards the ones who can for
something they have no control over. It's like celebrating a 9 mo who
can walk as though they had some choice about it and being upset with
a 18 mo who can't as though *they* had a choice about that.
Think about it. Why would a 5 yo need to read or write to do 5 yo
things?
What people fear is that it takes years of practice to learn to read
and write. But that's only true if kids are forced to do reading
practice when they don't want to or need to and before they're really
ready to even make it work.
Unschooled kids typically pick up reading anywhere between 4-12.
(Some even a bit earlier. Some even a bit later.) But an unschooled
child who learns at 12 isn't 8 years behind a 12 yo who learned at 4.
Within a few months the later reader is reading at age level just
like the earlier reader. Soon they're indistinguishable from each
other. Just as no one can tell which person walked at 9 mos and which
walked at 18 mos.
would attach unpleasant feelings to reading. Make the experience
pleasurable for him. Give him good associations with the written word.
If he asks, just answer his questions simply. If you know a clever
trick, pass it along but judge by his attitude how much of that he
finds interesting.
school are necessary or all that time and effort we spent in school
and doing work for school was wasted. To stay sane, kids buy into the
belief too. Otherwise they know they're wasting their childhoods :-
( The really unhappy, angry ones never accept that delusion. Not sure
which of those two choices is better :-/
Fortunately they're not the only two choices!
Math, I think, is the hardest because real life math bears very
little resemblance to school math. And when it does resemble school
math, there's so little of it -- considering all the hours and hours
of instruction and practice we did in school -- that it's a drip when
we think they need an ocean.
But real math is about learning how numbers work, not memorizing
abstract facts about them. Real math is absorbing what percentages
are useful for from video games and shopping and art software and
computers. It's learning how fluid numbers are and how they can be
manipulated to give you the answer you're trying to get to. (E.g.,
it's a whole lot more difficult to add 97+26 in your head than it is
to recognize that 97 could easily be turned into 100 by taking 3 from
26 and turning the problem into 100+23.)
With unschooling, kids learn math theory. They truly understand what
numbers do (and can do) in a practical gut-feeling way. Picking up
the formal notation for what they already understand is then very
easy. Kids in school have to work so hard because they don't
understand what the purpose of it is. They're basically practicing to
get it in by rote. Schools *hope* that they'll develop an
understanding but there's no guarantee.
As for writing, once he's a teen (and often before!) and is IMing and
playing online video games and emailing friends, he'll *have to*
figure out the essence of communicating through the written word
because he'll be writing for a real purpose: to get his thoughts
into someone else. It probably won't look like "real" writing but it
will be the important essence of it. And the technical aspects of
punctuation are easily learned. But also offer to take dictation of
any stories he wants to tell. If he wants to illustrate them, print
them out with lots of room for pictures and bind them up.
of unschoolers who have gone onto college or hold a job is so small
as to be laughable ;-) We just think the philosophy is really cool
and want to spread it around even though it doesn't work. ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My son who is 5No one should be expecting a 5 1/2 yo to be reading and writing. Lots
> 1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
> in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write.
of people do but they shouldn't. It just makes them unhappy and makes
the 5 1/2 yos who can't unhappy and rewards the ones who can for
something they have no control over. It's like celebrating a 9 mo who
can walk as though they had some choice about it and being upset with
a 18 mo who can't as though *they* had a choice about that.
Think about it. Why would a 5 yo need to read or write to do 5 yo
things?
What people fear is that it takes years of practice to learn to read
and write. But that's only true if kids are forced to do reading
practice when they don't want to or need to and before they're really
ready to even make it work.
Unschooled kids typically pick up reading anywhere between 4-12.
(Some even a bit earlier. Some even a bit later.) But an unschooled
child who learns at 12 isn't 8 years behind a 12 yo who learned at 4.
Within a few months the later reader is reading at age level just
like the earlier reader. Soon they're indistinguishable from each
other. Just as no one can tell which person walked at 9 mos and which
walked at 18 mos.
> What I amYes. As long as he doesn't feel your worry or pressure from you that
> concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
> having stories read to him?
would attach unpleasant feelings to reading. Make the experience
pleasurable for him. Give him good associations with the written word.
> Do I need to sit down with him andIck. No.
> teach him about phonics etc..?
If he asks, just answer his questions simply. If you know a clever
trick, pass it along but judge by his attitude how much of that he
finds interesting.
> I know I need to trust in my kidsWell, yeah, it's hard to believe. We *have* to believe the rigors of
> but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
> reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling.
school are necessary or all that time and effort we spent in school
and doing work for school was wasted. To stay sane, kids buy into the
belief too. Otherwise they know they're wasting their childhoods :-
( The really unhappy, angry ones never accept that delusion. Not sure
which of those two choices is better :-/
Fortunately they're not the only two choices!
Math, I think, is the hardest because real life math bears very
little resemblance to school math. And when it does resemble school
math, there's so little of it -- considering all the hours and hours
of instruction and practice we did in school -- that it's a drip when
we think they need an ocean.
But real math is about learning how numbers work, not memorizing
abstract facts about them. Real math is absorbing what percentages
are useful for from video games and shopping and art software and
computers. It's learning how fluid numbers are and how they can be
manipulated to give you the answer you're trying to get to. (E.g.,
it's a whole lot more difficult to add 97+26 in your head than it is
to recognize that 97 could easily be turned into 100 by taking 3 from
26 and turning the problem into 100+23.)
With unschooling, kids learn math theory. They truly understand what
numbers do (and can do) in a practical gut-feeling way. Picking up
the formal notation for what they already understand is then very
easy. Kids in school have to work so hard because they don't
understand what the purpose of it is. They're basically practicing to
get it in by rote. Schools *hope* that they'll develop an
understanding but there's no guarantee.
As for writing, once he's a teen (and often before!) and is IMing and
playing online video games and emailing friends, he'll *have to*
figure out the essence of communicating through the written word
because he'll be writing for a real purpose: to get his thoughts
into someone else. It probably won't look like "real" writing but it
will be the important essence of it. And the technical aspects of
punctuation are easily learned. But also offer to take dictation of
any stories he wants to tell. If he wants to illustrate them, print
them out with lots of room for pictures and bind them up.
> Does itNo, actually, all our kids are total nincompoops and the percentage
> actually work?
of unschoolers who have gone onto college or hold a job is so small
as to be laughable ;-) We just think the philosophy is really cool
and want to spread it around even though it doesn't work. ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Buxcel
Ah, divine timing, indeed!
This thread could not come at a better time. Here's my story:
My mother, a recovering alcoholic who stumbles and falls often on her journey, called me last night, while drinking (which she knows she is not supposed to do, I've set that boundary with her) and asks if the boys are sleeping and if she could come over.
No, the boys are awake, we were all just in bed reading together, but she can come over when they fall asleep.
Then she says "i'm scared, honey" I hear "i need you, karen, i'm struggling with something in *my* life". Oh, no. What she's scared about is that my 7yo (8 in january) isn't reading.
I'll spare you all the details of our very short conversation, but I finally hung up on her when she said "if the state ever found out, karen, that you are 'homeschooling' and not teaching him anything, they could take your kids away'.
So, for those of you who have children who read great at 4yo! Good! For those of you whose kiddos don't read til their 12, great!
My ds doesn't seem much interested in reading on his own just yet. Occassionally, he'll ask me what something says, and I tell him. I truly don't think he's developmentally ready to put all the pieces together right *now*.
So, my concern is, should I be doing something more? I don't want my child to feel 'less'. (and believe me, no more unsupervised visits with g/ma for a while, cuz she'll be the one to make him feel that way, like somethings wrong with him).
I know nothing is wrong with him. I truly know that. I just want to make sure I am doing everything I can to help him. I read about all the amazing things people on this list are doing, what they're children are up to and interested in, and I feel like I'm falling short.
I'm not devaluing what my children enjoy doing, which is simply playing.
What I need is a hug and a pat on the back, and some words of calming wisdom.
Thanks,
Karen
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb <soggyboysmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:05:41 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who has never been
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitle s, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This thread could not come at a better time. Here's my story:
My mother, a recovering alcoholic who stumbles and falls often on her journey, called me last night, while drinking (which she knows she is not supposed to do, I've set that boundary with her) and asks if the boys are sleeping and if she could come over.
No, the boys are awake, we were all just in bed reading together, but she can come over when they fall asleep.
Then she says "i'm scared, honey" I hear "i need you, karen, i'm struggling with something in *my* life". Oh, no. What she's scared about is that my 7yo (8 in january) isn't reading.
I'll spare you all the details of our very short conversation, but I finally hung up on her when she said "if the state ever found out, karen, that you are 'homeschooling' and not teaching him anything, they could take your kids away'.
So, for those of you who have children who read great at 4yo! Good! For those of you whose kiddos don't read til their 12, great!
My ds doesn't seem much interested in reading on his own just yet. Occassionally, he'll ask me what something says, and I tell him. I truly don't think he's developmentally ready to put all the pieces together right *now*.
So, my concern is, should I be doing something more? I don't want my child to feel 'less'. (and believe me, no more unsupervised visits with g/ma for a while, cuz she'll be the one to make him feel that way, like somethings wrong with him).
I know nothing is wrong with him. I truly know that. I just want to make sure I am doing everything I can to help him. I read about all the amazing things people on this list are doing, what they're children are up to and interested in, and I feel like I'm falling short.
I'm not devaluing what my children enjoy doing, which is simply playing.
What I need is a hug and a pat on the back, and some words of calming wisdom.
Thanks,
Karen
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb <soggyboysmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:05:41 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who has never been
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitle s, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Buxcel
Thank you, Joyce!
I forwarded this to my mom.
I needed to read something like this right now, that just makes so much sense! It gets me back to where I need to be!
With much appreciation,
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I forwarded this to my mom.
I needed to read something like this right now, that just makes so much sense! It gets me back to where I need to be!
With much appreciation,
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/17/06, susangould1 <ggould1@...> wrote:
It's a "lightswtich skill." It's one of those skills that until they
are ready for it the switch will not turn on. They may be able to
work out the sounds of the letters but they are not reading. There
are many children on this list who have learned to read without
official "real" lessons. Just everyday being surrounded by words.
Read to him, with him, for him until he is able to read himself.
There are several families on this list who had children who did not
read until they were 9, 10, or older who went from sounding out
s-t-o-p to reading chapter books in a matter of weeks and who now love
reading. my own middle child didn't start reading until she was 8
years old and did just that! One weekshe *couldn't* read and the
next week she couldn't get enough material to read! No pressure, no
challenge, just waiting for the right moment for it all to make sense
to her.
Michelle
> My son who is 5Not unless he wants to. MANY MANY children cannot read at 5.5yo.
> 1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
> in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
> concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
> having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
> teach him about phonics etc..?
It's a "lightswtich skill." It's one of those skills that until they
are ready for it the switch will not turn on. They may be able to
work out the sounds of the letters but they are not reading. There
are many children on this list who have learned to read without
official "real" lessons. Just everyday being surrounded by words.
Read to him, with him, for him until he is able to read himself.
There are several families on this list who had children who did not
read until they were 9, 10, or older who went from sounding out
s-t-o-p to reading chapter books in a matter of weeks and who now love
reading. my own middle child didn't start reading until she was 8
years old and did just that! One weekshe *couldn't* read and the
next week she couldn't get enough material to read! No pressure, no
challenge, just waiting for the right moment for it all to make sense
to her.
Michelle
Schafer Vanessa
Karen,
Here is your pat on the back, and a big hug. You are
doing nothing wrong. I think that you spending time
with your boys reading to them is great. Eventually,
they will start to read on their own. I think you
should stop worrying, and enjoy your kids. When they
are ready to read, you will know. If you try to make
them do more, they may not want to read at all. (I
hope this makes sense.) It will all come in time.
Forget what everyone else says. Relax, and remember
to breathe.
---Vanessa
--- Karen Buxcel <blackhillsdoula@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Here is your pat on the back, and a big hug. You are
doing nothing wrong. I think that you spending time
with your boys reading to them is great. Eventually,
they will start to read on their own. I think you
should stop worrying, and enjoy your kids. When they
are ready to read, you will know. If you try to make
them do more, they may not want to read at all. (I
hope this makes sense.) It will all come in time.
Forget what everyone else says. Relax, and remember
to breathe.
---Vanessa
--- Karen Buxcel <blackhillsdoula@...> wrote:
> Ah, divine timing, indeed!__________________________________________________
> This thread could not come at a better time. Here's
> my story:
> My mother, a recovering alcoholic who stumbles and
> falls often on her journey, called me last night,
> while drinking (which she knows she is not supposed
> to do, I've set that boundary with her) and asks if
> the boys are sleeping and if she could come over.
> No, the boys are awake, we were all just in bed
> reading together, but she can come over when they
> fall asleep.
> Then she says "i'm scared, honey" I hear "i need
> you, karen, i'm struggling with something in *my*
> life". Oh, no. What she's scared about is that my
> 7yo (8 in january) isn't reading.
> I'll spare you all the details of our very short
> conversation, but I finally hung up on her when she
> said "if the state ever found out, karen, that you
> are 'homeschooling' and not teaching him anything,
> they could take your kids away'.
> So, for those of you who have children who read
> great at 4yo! Good! For those of you whose kiddos
> don't read til their 12, great!
> My ds doesn't seem much interested in reading on his
> own just yet. Occassionally, he'll ask me what
> something says, and I tell him. I truly don't think
> he's developmentally ready to put all the pieces
> together right *now*.
> So, my concern is, should I be doing something more?
> I don't want my child to feel 'less'. (and believe
> me, no more unsupervised visits with g/ma for a
> while, cuz she'll be the one to make him feel that
> way, like somethings wrong with him).
> I know nothing is wrong with him. I truly know
> that. I just want to make sure I am doing
> everything I can to help him. I read about all the
> amazing things people on this list are doing, what
> they're children are up to and interested in, and I
> feel like I'm falling short.
> I'm not devaluing what my children enjoy doing,
> which is simply playing.
> What I need is a hug and a pat on the back, and some
> words of calming wisdom.
> Thanks,
> Karen
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Deb <soggyboysmom@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:05:41 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
>
> Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who
> has never been
> schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not
> know all the
> tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled
> kids have but
> neither do they have the real life usable
> information he has
> accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form
> letters and is
> currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes,
> he understands
> numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of
> them by
> memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the
> chalkboard (+ and x)
> by his request so he can refer to it whenever he
> needs/wants to. He
> also can handle basic tools competently and is
> currently intrigued
> by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in
> Dr. Who, Star
> Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and
> writing and math) are
> not ends in themselves, as schools would have it,
> but rather they
> are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be
> used as needed
> for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and
> do 'hammering
> practice' just in case you might need it next year?
> Reading, too, is
> not limited to books - it's on road signs, and
> grocery store
> shelves, and product packages, and websites, and
> videogames, and TV
> listings and closed captioning/subtitle s, and all
> sorts of stuff
> besides books. So, when you are looking at his
> reading ability,
> don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but
> whether he can
> find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever
> as well.
>
> Life goes on and learning happens
> --Deb
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Deb
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
when a child is born and takes however many years until the pieces
click into place. Not years of phonics practice (bleh) but years of
being exposed to language. On the one hand, it can seem to
happen 'overnight'. On the other, it can percolate internally for
years before it becomes visible.
Eventually, the tool becomes useful to the person and they start
using it more and developing proficiency at using it - it seemed
like DS went from 0 to 60 in a matter of weeks (from not reading to
reading Captain Underpants) but really it was in little bits and
pieces over time, a connection here, a connection there, until it
all fit and made sense inside him. Best as I can figure, he handled
words the way he handles food - get a big bite in and then let it
digest into proteins and carbs and minerals and all that can be used
for whatever he needs to use them for. Nowadays, he may hole up in
bed in the evening and read a bit ... or not. Sometimes he goes for
weeks on end without reading *a book* - reading is still happening
though - last week, we went to a new market (checking out a local co-
op to see if we want in). I sent him to go get pasta sauce (within
eyesight at the other end of the same aisle I was in). I could see
him out the corner of my eye checking one jar then another then
another (I thought maybe he was looking for a familiar brand name)
then he came back sans sauce. He said they all had too much sodium
so he didn't get any. He was *reading* the label. (BTW I went back
with him and we hunted a bit more and found a low sodium organic
brand).
--Deb
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
>In a way, it does take years to learn to read and write - it starts
>
>
> What people fear is that it takes years of practice to learn to
>read
> and write.
when a child is born and takes however many years until the pieces
click into place. Not years of phonics practice (bleh) but years of
being exposed to language. On the one hand, it can seem to
happen 'overnight'. On the other, it can percolate internally for
years before it becomes visible.
Eventually, the tool becomes useful to the person and they start
using it more and developing proficiency at using it - it seemed
like DS went from 0 to 60 in a matter of weeks (from not reading to
reading Captain Underpants) but really it was in little bits and
pieces over time, a connection here, a connection there, until it
all fit and made sense inside him. Best as I can figure, he handled
words the way he handles food - get a big bite in and then let it
digest into proteins and carbs and minerals and all that can be used
for whatever he needs to use them for. Nowadays, he may hole up in
bed in the evening and read a bit ... or not. Sometimes he goes for
weeks on end without reading *a book* - reading is still happening
though - last week, we went to a new market (checking out a local co-
op to see if we want in). I sent him to go get pasta sauce (within
eyesight at the other end of the same aisle I was in). I could see
him out the corner of my eye checking one jar then another then
another (I thought maybe he was looking for a familiar brand name)
then he came back sans sauce. He said they all had too much sodium
so he didn't get any. He was *reading* the label. (BTW I went back
with him and we hunted a bit more and found a low sodium organic
brand).
--Deb
Johanna
Am 17.10.2006 um 17:31 schrieb susangould1:
here? and here?" "what's this letter" "What would this be?" Have a
lot to read, read a lot yourself. Maybe have letters with magnets and
a magnetic board, but just wait for him to be interested in it. He'll
ask and learn when he'll *need* to read. I'm sure!
Johanna
> Do I need to sit down with him andYes, just answer his questions whenever he asks "what does it say
> teach him about phonics etc..?
here? and here?" "what's this letter" "What would this be?" Have a
lot to read, read a lot yourself. Maybe have letters with magnets and
a magnetic board, but just wait for him to be interested in it. He'll
ask and learn when he'll *need* to read. I'm sure!
Johanna
Kelly Weyd
I have lots of e-mails to catch up on so I'm not sure what everyone's elses response has been. My 6 year old daughter started reading like she'd been reading for years at age 4.......I don't think it happens that way for most kids. My 8 year old really did not start reading until just recently. She memorized a bunch of words I think just to please her teachers at public school, but she really did not have a grasp on it. I know plenty of kids in public school that can't read or are really struggling, so going to school does not guarantee one will read either at a certain prescribed age......which is what schools want them to do. But the beauty of homeschooling and especially "unschooling" is the child can do it on "their" schedule, not someone elses. A really good recent example is my 8 year old with Math. In public school she hated it and stunk at it. I think because she always felt stressed and under pressure to get the math done. Now she will sit and play with
Math manipulatives for hours, and get a blank piece of paper and write math problems down by the dozens.......all on her own, nothing to do with me asking her.
Recently I read an article about how "playing" has been lost in our society. It said parents are so busy "overscheduling" their kids with hockey, karate, dance lesson, etc. that they don't realize their kids need to just play. The best memories I had as a child were of "playing". When my girls were in school, and would come home to a bunch of homework I kept asking "when do they get to play? and just be kids?" I had many reasons to pull them out of school, but one of those reasons was so that they could just play. My kids are gonna have plenty of time when they are adults to be stressed out and worried about bills, and all those adult things. Right now I just want them to be kids, and do kid things.
Oh, those phone calls from relatives are just wonderful aren't they? My MIL, who also drinks tos much also calls us and all kinds of things come out of her unfiltered mouth.....one of them being how much she disagrees with us over the homeschooling. So here's you hug and pat on the back. Keep up the good work, you are doing the right thing.
Kelly
Karen Buxcel <blackhillsdoula@...> wrote:
Ah, divine timing, indeed!
This thread could not come at a better time. Here's my story:
My mother, a recovering alcoholic who stumbles and falls often on her journey, called me last night, while drinking (which she knows she is not supposed to do, I've set that boundary with her) and asks if the boys are sleeping and if she could come over.
No, the boys are awake, we were all just in bed reading together, but she can come over when they fall asleep.
Then she says "i'm scared, honey" I hear "i need you, karen, i'm struggling with something in *my* life". Oh, no. What she's scared about is that my 7yo (8 in january) isn't reading.
I'll spare you all the details of our very short conversation, but I finally hung up on her when she said "if the state ever found out, karen, that you are 'homeschooling' and not teaching him anything, they could take your kids away'.
So, for those of you who have children who read great at 4yo! Good! For those of you whose kiddos don't read til their 12, great!
My ds doesn't seem much interested in reading on his own just yet. Occassionally, he'll ask me what something says, and I tell him. I truly don't think he's developmentally ready to put all the pieces together right *now*.
So, my concern is, should I be doing something more? I don't want my child to feel 'less'. (and believe me, no more unsupervised visits with g/ma for a while, cuz she'll be the one to make him feel that way, like somethings wrong with him).
I know nothing is wrong with him. I truly know that. I just want to make sure I am doing everything I can to help him. I read about all the amazing things people on this list are doing, what they're children are up to and interested in, and I feel like I'm falling short.
I'm not devaluing what my children enjoy doing, which is simply playing.
What I need is a hug and a pat on the back, and some words of calming wisdom.
Thanks,
Karen
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb <soggyboysmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:05:41 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who has never been
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitle s, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Math manipulatives for hours, and get a blank piece of paper and write math problems down by the dozens.......all on her own, nothing to do with me asking her.
Recently I read an article about how "playing" has been lost in our society. It said parents are so busy "overscheduling" their kids with hockey, karate, dance lesson, etc. that they don't realize their kids need to just play. The best memories I had as a child were of "playing". When my girls were in school, and would come home to a bunch of homework I kept asking "when do they get to play? and just be kids?" I had many reasons to pull them out of school, but one of those reasons was so that they could just play. My kids are gonna have plenty of time when they are adults to be stressed out and worried about bills, and all those adult things. Right now I just want them to be kids, and do kid things.
Oh, those phone calls from relatives are just wonderful aren't they? My MIL, who also drinks tos much also calls us and all kinds of things come out of her unfiltered mouth.....one of them being how much she disagrees with us over the homeschooling. So here's you hug and pat on the back. Keep up the good work, you are doing the right thing.
Kelly
Karen Buxcel <blackhillsdoula@...> wrote:
Ah, divine timing, indeed!
This thread could not come at a better time. Here's my story:
My mother, a recovering alcoholic who stumbles and falls often on her journey, called me last night, while drinking (which she knows she is not supposed to do, I've set that boundary with her) and asks if the boys are sleeping and if she could come over.
No, the boys are awake, we were all just in bed reading together, but she can come over when they fall asleep.
Then she says "i'm scared, honey" I hear "i need you, karen, i'm struggling with something in *my* life". Oh, no. What she's scared about is that my 7yo (8 in january) isn't reading.
I'll spare you all the details of our very short conversation, but I finally hung up on her when she said "if the state ever found out, karen, that you are 'homeschooling' and not teaching him anything, they could take your kids away'.
So, for those of you who have children who read great at 4yo! Good! For those of you whose kiddos don't read til their 12, great!
My ds doesn't seem much interested in reading on his own just yet. Occassionally, he'll ask me what something says, and I tell him. I truly don't think he's developmentally ready to put all the pieces together right *now*.
So, my concern is, should I be doing something more? I don't want my child to feel 'less'. (and believe me, no more unsupervised visits with g/ma for a while, cuz she'll be the one to make him feel that way, like somethings wrong with him).
I know nothing is wrong with him. I truly know that. I just want to make sure I am doing everything I can to help him. I read about all the amazing things people on this list are doing, what they're children are up to and interested in, and I feel like I'm falling short.
I'm not devaluing what my children enjoy doing, which is simply playing.
What I need is a hug and a pat on the back, and some words of calming wisdom.
Thanks,
Karen
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb <soggyboysmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:05:41 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
Yes, it actually "works" - I've got an 8 yr old who has never been
schooled and he is doing just fine. He might not know all the
tidy 'packets 'o information' that all the schooled kids have but
neither do they have the real life usable information he has
accumulated. Yes, he can read. Yes, he can form letters and is
currently interested in how stuff is spelled. Yes, he understands
numbers, though he hasn't sucked all the fun out of them by
memorizing the 'tables' - we've got them on the chalkboard (+ and x)
by his request so he can refer to it whenever he needs/wants to. He
also can handle basic tools competently and is currently intrigued
by the Periodic Table of Elements, and interested in Dr. Who, Star
Trek, and nutritional information on foods.
One thing to keep in mind is that reading (and writing and math) are
not ends in themselves, as schools would have it, but rather they
are tools, just like a hammer or screwdriver, to be used as needed
for a particular task. Do you pull out a hammer and do 'hammering
practice' just in case you might need it next year? Reading, too, is
not limited to books - it's on road signs, and grocery store
shelves, and product packages, and websites, and videogames, and TV
listings and closed captioning/subtitle s, and all sorts of stuff
besides books. So, when you are looking at his reading ability,
don't just look at whether he's picked up a book but whether he can
find the Stop signs or the Apple Jacks or whatever as well.
Life goes on and learning happens
--Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Weyd
Hi Sue, I just wanted to jump in and tell you I am also new, and I also just pulled my kids three weeks ago. My girls are 6 & 8. I also felt like school was sucking the life out of my 8 year old, and I'm so happy to see the smiles return to her beautiful face. I think your little guy is gonna be just fine........he'll read and write on his own time.
Kelly
susangould1 <ggould1@...> wrote:
Hi,
I am new to unschooling. I agree with the need to raise HAPPY,
healthy, curious kids. Three weeks ago I pulled my kids from school
for a few reasons. My daughter is 8yrs old and she seems to have
had the zest for learning and life sucked out of her by the school
system BUT I am confident that she will regain that zest for life
and will do fine because she can read and write. My son who is 5
1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
teach him about phonics etc..? I know I need to trust in my kids
but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling. Does it
actually work????
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sue
---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
susangould1 <ggould1@...> wrote:
Hi,
I am new to unschooling. I agree with the need to raise HAPPY,
healthy, curious kids. Three weeks ago I pulled my kids from school
for a few reasons. My daughter is 8yrs old and she seems to have
had the zest for learning and life sucked out of her by the school
system BUT I am confident that she will regain that zest for life
and will do fine because she can read and write. My son who is 5
1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact (only
in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
teach him about phonics etc..? I know I need to trust in my kids
but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling. Does it
actually work????
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sue
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerryn L Gutmanis
Hi all
My experiences... and a question.
My 15yo spontaneously read at around 5, 13yo (even with formal HS lessons!) didn't catch on until 8-9, 11yo started working it out around 6.5, 9yo devoured books at 5, 7yo same. Now my 5.5 dd has NO interest in book reading. She writes a lot of stuff though, especially copies book titles, our names, and dictates to me for letters to daddy (overseas working). I think dd 3yo has more interest in reading and writing, and seems to be moving along more quickly than her sister. What I mean is, she will frequently ask what a word says, how to write such and such, names of brekky cereals, etc. We read a lot in our home. We don't worship books, but love to learn about stuff, also to be entertained by books. In fact, I'll often pick up non fiction books from the $2 store for a treat
Now my question:-)
What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
Kerryn
Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My experiences... and a question.
My 15yo spontaneously read at around 5, 13yo (even with formal HS lessons!) didn't catch on until 8-9, 11yo started working it out around 6.5, 9yo devoured books at 5, 7yo same. Now my 5.5 dd has NO interest in book reading. She writes a lot of stuff though, especially copies book titles, our names, and dictates to me for letters to daddy (overseas working). I think dd 3yo has more interest in reading and writing, and seems to be moving along more quickly than her sister. What I mean is, she will frequently ask what a word says, how to write such and such, names of brekky cereals, etc. We read a lot in our home. We don't worship books, but love to learn about stuff, also to be entertained by books. In fact, I'll often pick up non fiction books from the $2 store for a treat
Now my question:-)
What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
Kerryn
Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:41 AM, Kerryn L Gutmanis wrote:
I remember someone said she labeled things in the house and then
after a while switched the labels around. The kids were challenged to
put them on the right object -- because *the kids* thought it was fun.
If she's ready to read, the labels might be interesting because
she'll be unconsciously curious to connect the sounds of words to how
they look. If she's not, she'll probably tune them out. (We've had
many things labeled in Japanese for years and I honestly still can't
remember what is what ;-)
Are they necessary? Not in the least. They can be fun for some kids.
They can feel like a quiz to some kids. They can be just so much
paper scattered about for other kids. They can be a germ of an idea
to label their own things. (Though don't be surprised if their labels
have nothing to do with standard language ;-)
So the answer is, "It depends." It depends on whether she thinks it's
interesting.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out wordsThe most important question: Does she think it's interesting?
> and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be
> there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to'
> readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins.
> Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
I remember someone said she labeled things in the house and then
after a while switched the labels around. The kids were challenged to
put them on the right object -- because *the kids* thought it was fun.
If she's ready to read, the labels might be interesting because
she'll be unconsciously curious to connect the sounds of words to how
they look. If she's not, she'll probably tune them out. (We've had
many things labeled in Japanese for years and I honestly still can't
remember what is what ;-)
Are they necessary? Not in the least. They can be fun for some kids.
They can feel like a quiz to some kids. They can be just so much
paper scattered about for other kids. They can be a germ of an idea
to label their own things. (Though don't be surprised if their labels
have nothing to do with standard language ;-)
So the answer is, "It depends." It depends on whether she thinks it's
interesting.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/18/06, Kerryn L Gutmanis <kezgutmanis@...> wrote:
all the words that are already visible. You mentioned food
containers. There are tons of those eggs, milk, oatmeal, cans of
corn, 85/20 ground beef, Boca, ramen noodles, tomatoe sauce, etc etc
etc. There are words in your car, there are words all along the
streets (even if they do happen to say Stop, yield, wrong way,
mcdonald's, pizza hut, etc.) There are words in our places of
worship. There are words everywhere. Do you really feel the need to
add more words to your lives? I would hazard that when you first put
the words up that they would be a novelty and within a few days or
weeks they would blend into just part of what makes up your house.
Michelle - who has word stickers all over her house but they are in Japanese
> What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?We are already surrounded by words. Take a look around your house at
>
all the words that are already visible. You mentioned food
containers. There are tons of those eggs, milk, oatmeal, cans of
corn, 85/20 ground beef, Boca, ramen noodles, tomatoe sauce, etc etc
etc. There are words in your car, there are words all along the
streets (even if they do happen to say Stop, yield, wrong way,
mcdonald's, pizza hut, etc.) There are words in our places of
worship. There are words everywhere. Do you really feel the need to
add more words to your lives? I would hazard that when you first put
the words up that they would be a novelty and within a few days or
weeks they would blend into just part of what makes up your house.
Michelle - who has word stickers all over her house but they are in Japanese
Kelly Weyd
I used to take index cards and write words on them for my girls, and taped them up around the house. My girls loved this, and would ask me to label more things.
Kelly
Kerryn L Gutmanis <kezgutmanis@...> wrote:
Hi all
My experiences... and a question.
My 15yo spontaneously read at around 5, 13yo (even with formal HS lessons!) didn't catch on until 8-9, 11yo started working it out around 6.5, 9yo devoured books at 5, 7yo same. Now my 5.5 dd has NO interest in book reading. She writes a lot of stuff though, especially copies book titles, our names, and dictates to me for letters to daddy (overseas working). I think dd 3yo has more interest in reading and writing, and seems to be moving along more quickly than her sister. What I mean is, she will frequently ask what a word says, how to write such and such, names of brekky cereals, etc. We read a lot in our home. We don't worship books, but love to learn about stuff, also to be entertained by books. In fact, I'll often pick up non fiction books from the $2 store for a treat
Now my question:-)
What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
Kerryn
Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
Kerryn L Gutmanis <kezgutmanis@...> wrote:
Hi all
My experiences... and a question.
My 15yo spontaneously read at around 5, 13yo (even with formal HS lessons!) didn't catch on until 8-9, 11yo started working it out around 6.5, 9yo devoured books at 5, 7yo same. Now my 5.5 dd has NO interest in book reading. She writes a lot of stuff though, especially copies book titles, our names, and dictates to me for letters to daddy (overseas working). I think dd 3yo has more interest in reading and writing, and seems to be moving along more quickly than her sister. What I mean is, she will frequently ask what a word says, how to write such and such, names of brekky cereals, etc. We read a lot in our home. We don't worship books, but love to learn about stuff, also to be entertained by books. In fact, I'll often pick up non fiction books from the $2 store for a treat
Now my question:-)
What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
Kerryn
Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susangould1
Thanks Kelly,
I just needed some reasurance. School was sucking the life out of
my 8 yr old as well! That is the reason we pulled her out. Funny
how so many people have had the same experience.
Sue
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
also felt like school was sucking the life out of my 8 year old, and
I'm so happy to see the smiles return to her beautiful face. I
think your little guy is gonna be just fine........he'll read and
write on his own time.
I just needed some reasurance. School was sucking the life out of
my 8 yr old as well! That is the reason we pulled her out. Funny
how so many people have had the same experience.
Sue
--- In [email protected], Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
wrote:
>also just pulled my kids three weeks ago. My girls are 6 & 8. I
> Hi Sue, I just wanted to jump in and tell you I am also new, and I
also felt like school was sucking the life out of my 8 year old, and
I'm so happy to see the smiles return to her beautiful face. I
think your little guy is gonna be just fine........he'll read and
write on his own time.
> Kellyschool
>
> susangould1 <ggould1@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am new to unschooling. I agree with the need to raise HAPPY,
> healthy, curious kids. Three weeks ago I pulled my kids from
> for a few reasons. My daughter is 8yrs old and she seems to have(only
> had the zest for learning and life sucked out of her by the school
> system BUT I am confident that she will regain that zest for life
> and will do fine because she can read and write. My son who is 5
> 1/2 still has his drive for learning and investigating intact
> in school system for 1 yr) BUT he CANNOT read and write. What I am
> concerned about is will he really learn to read by living life and
> having stories read to him? Do I need to sit down with him and
> teach him about phonics etc..? I know I need to trust in my kids
> but it seems hard to believe that they can learn the basics in
> reading, writing and arithmetic through unschooling. Does it
> actually work????
>
> Any help here would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sue
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Melissa
I think that even though she's not reading books, she has an interest
in language just from what you've written. She may never be a person
who reads books for fun, or she may be like your child that didn't
start reading til 9yo. That's four years off from now, so I'd let it
be. She may start reading Dickens tomorrow. So what if the three yo
passes her? They are each their own person.
I've watched four kids now pass by Breanna, it doesn't make her any
less the person she is, it just emphasizes that she is her own person
and that she'll achieve what she's meant to be. If I make it a big
deal, all it does is damage her self esteem and damage the children
who happen to have achieved one thing before another child.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
in language just from what you've written. She may never be a person
who reads books for fun, or she may be like your child that didn't
start reading til 9yo. That's four years off from now, so I'd let it
be. She may start reading Dickens tomorrow. So what if the three yo
passes her? They are each their own person.
I've watched four kids now pass by Breanna, it doesn't make her any
less the person she is, it just emphasizes that she is her own person
and that she'll achieve what she's meant to be. If I make it a big
deal, all it does is damage her self esteem and damage the children
who happen to have achieved one thing before another child.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Oct 18, 2006, at 2:41 AM, Kerryn L Gutmanis wrote:
> Now my 5.5 dd has NO interest in book reading. She writes a lot of
> stuff though, especially copies book titles, our names, and
> dictates to me for letters to daddy (overseas working).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
~> I thought this was a good thing to post again!! If you're having
Ack!! Sorry Deb and Joyce. I've been mixing up writers a lot
lately....I need to pay attention better.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
<fetteroll@...> wrote:
~> I thought this was a good thing to post again!! If you're having
> doubts, just keep reading Joyces words, daily if necessary.:)That was Deb/soggyboysmom expanding and clarifying my post :-)~
Ack!! Sorry Deb and Joyce. I've been mixing up writers a lot
lately....I need to pay attention better.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Beth Fleming
So right, Melissa! The kids look to their prents or significant adult in their lives for cues as to how to react....If it's cool with you that your daughter has not read until.....it will be cool with the rest of the kids. They will follow your lead. I am just reading Hold On To Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers by Gordon Neufeld and Gabor Mate....
A great point that they make in the book is that the modeling of the adult who kids have bonded to needs to be the most important example...and that is the natural way of humans (although not the "norm" in our culture today). Your post made me think about what an important role we have in setting the tone for our kids becoming who they are, when it's right for them.
Peace,
Beth
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
===I've watched four kids now pass by Breanna, it doesn't make her any
less the person she is, it just emphasizes that she is her own person
and that she'll achieve what she's meant to be. If I make it a big
deal, all it does is damage her self esteem and damage the children
who happen to have achieved one thing before another child.===
Unschooling Mom to Frances (9), Will (7), Catherine (2), and Grace (6 months)
www.6uvus.blogspot.com
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A great point that they make in the book is that the modeling of the adult who kids have bonded to needs to be the most important example...and that is the natural way of humans (although not the "norm" in our culture today). Your post made me think about what an important role we have in setting the tone for our kids becoming who they are, when it's right for them.
Peace,
Beth
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
===I've watched four kids now pass by Breanna, it doesn't make her any
less the person she is, it just emphasizes that she is her own person
and that she'll achieve what she's meant to be. If I make it a big
deal, all it does is damage her self esteem and damage the children
who happen to have achieved one thing before another child.===
Unschooling Mom to Frances (9), Will (7), Catherine (2), and Grace (6 months)
www.6uvus.blogspot.com
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
My daughter Emily who came out of school at Spring Break in K (almost 8 years ago) read somewhere between 10 3/4 and 11 1/2. She will be 13 in a month. I had noticed that she was reading things online and I had been waiting patiently with trust thanks to the people here and on other lists. I really wanted her to read and enjoy it. I read very early and it is one of my favorite things to do. My desire for her to read was not because I thought that reading is "good for you" "It teaches you" or "how else is she going to LEARN anything?". I wanted to be able to talk about and share one of my loves with her. If she didn't share that love, that would have been ok too. We have plenty of things in common even if we don't share the love of stories.
Anyway, I wanted her to understand that for some people, reading is a hobby as well as a tool and can be very enjoyable. So I went to a book store and picked up Are You There God? It's Me Margaret. By Judy Blume, One of my all time favorite books from when I was a girl.
I literally thought, "If this doesn't work, she's just not that into it."
She loved it, read the whole thing. She found joy in reading a story just for fun.
She went on to read more Judy Blume, and then switched to young adult chick lit.
Cool! fun light books about young women and relationships.
Emily is also taking a World history class with some other homeschoolers. She's the youngest one in the class, most are eclectically schooled teens prepping for college and keeping transcripts. She reads the textbook chapters with ease. What's amazing is that there are no ulteriors. No have to's, no deadlines. This is all for fun.
I didn't teach her to read. She learned in the same way that she learned to talk. She listened, she made connections between sounds and body language, she tried making sounds, analyzed the responses, adjusted and tried again.
In reading she listened to sounds coming out of peoples mouths, noticed patterns on paper (or screens) tried decyphering the sounds, analyzed the responses, adjusted and tried again.
My son who is seven is starting this journey. He has been completely unschooled since birth. There is a difference as he is not put off by anything that could remotely be attached to school style learning.I would guess that he will read a little earlier as he had no healing to do. But, whenever!
It's all good.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anyway, I wanted her to understand that for some people, reading is a hobby as well as a tool and can be very enjoyable. So I went to a book store and picked up Are You There God? It's Me Margaret. By Judy Blume, One of my all time favorite books from when I was a girl.
I literally thought, "If this doesn't work, she's just not that into it."
She loved it, read the whole thing. She found joy in reading a story just for fun.
She went on to read more Judy Blume, and then switched to young adult chick lit.
Cool! fun light books about young women and relationships.
Emily is also taking a World history class with some other homeschoolers. She's the youngest one in the class, most are eclectically schooled teens prepping for college and keeping transcripts. She reads the textbook chapters with ease. What's amazing is that there are no ulteriors. No have to's, no deadlines. This is all for fun.
I didn't teach her to read. She learned in the same way that she learned to talk. She listened, she made connections between sounds and body language, she tried making sounds, analyzed the responses, adjusted and tried again.
In reading she listened to sounds coming out of peoples mouths, noticed patterns on paper (or screens) tried decyphering the sounds, analyzed the responses, adjusted and tried again.
My son who is seven is starting this journey. He has been completely unschooled since birth. There is a difference as he is not put off by anything that could remotely be attached to school style learning.I would guess that he will read a little earlier as he had no healing to do. But, whenever!
It's all good.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
When my first child was born, I read a book called How To Teach Your Baby To Read. (Long time before I learned of unschooling). He explained how children learn and how the young eyes worked. For young children, he said the words needed to be very large(3") and thicker lined. He said to just use the word not the letters as letters have no meaning by themselves. Between the ages of 1-2, I made up cards with the body parts and household stuff and put the body parts over the changing table and the other labels where appropreate. I didn't drill my daughter but we did play fun games with them. (Same as one would play head and shoulders and such with their babies.) That same child, now sixteen, now labels the house in whatever language she is currently studying (Japanese, Spanish, German, & French..)
For my son, I would blame video games for most of his learning to read. I have been amazed at just how much he has learned from the games he plays. Comics are also an incredible way for kids to learn to read. My son loves Calvin and Hobbes and On The Rocks at
www.funbrain.com . I'd say example is the best way to encourage reading. If you read, they will read.
----- Original Message ----
From: Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:13:59 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
For my son, I would blame video games for most of his learning to read. I have been amazed at just how much he has learned from the games he plays. Comics are also an incredible way for kids to learn to read. My son loves Calvin and Hobbes and On The Rocks at
www.funbrain.com . I'd say example is the best way to encourage reading. If you read, they will read.
----- Original Message ----
From: Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:13:59 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning to read...
On 10/18/06, Kerryn L Gutmanis <kezgutmanis@ westnet.com. au> wrote:
> What are people's thoughts on name tags? If I printed out words and placed them on items around the house, just for them to be there, to look at, but not to drill, would it be useful to 'yet to' readers? I feel like it is similar to labelling my food tins. Sugar, flour, noodles, milk powder etc. What is the value of this?
>
We are already surrounded by words. Take a look around your house at
all the words that are already visible. You mentioned food
containers. There are tons of those eggs, milk, oatmeal, cans of
corn, 85/20 ground beef, Boca, ramen noodles, tomatoe sauce, etc etc
etc. There are words in your car, there are words all along the
streets (even if they do happen to say Stop, yield, wrong way,
mcdonald's, pizza hut, etc.) There are words in our places of
worship. There are words everywhere. Do you really feel the need to
add more words to your lives? I would hazard that when you first put
the words up that they would be a novelty and within a few days or
weeks they would blend into just part of what makes up your house.
Michelle - who has word stickers all over her house but they are in Japanese
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jlh44music
<vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
Sorry, I have to disagree! This is NOT true for every child. I LOVE
to read and have always read out loud to my dd (now 14). Both she and
my dh do not enjoy reading for pleasure, they're both right-
brained/visual-spatial learners, the sequential process of reading is
difficult and not pleasurable for them, they'd rather get info in
other ways. My dd HAS read books (when she was in school) and
certainly is able to read, but chooses not to.
Jann
>I'd say example is the best way to encourage reading. If you read,they will read.>>>
Sorry, I have to disagree! This is NOT true for every child. I LOVE
to read and have always read out loud to my dd (now 14). Both she and
my dh do not enjoy reading for pleasure, they're both right-
brained/visual-spatial learners, the sequential process of reading is
difficult and not pleasurable for them, they'd rather get info in
other ways. My dd HAS read books (when she was in school) and
certainly is able to read, but chooses not to.
Jann
Tina
>>Sorry, I have to disagree! This is NOT true for every child. ILOVE to read and have always read out loud to my dd (now 14).>>
I have to second this. I have been an avid reader since what seems
like birth. As a child and teen I had a dresser for clothing and a
dresser for books, one of the old ones with big, deep drawers. I
still have all of those books. I've created a mini-library in my
home. I am always checking out anywhere from 30-60 books at a time
from the library. Typically I am reading as many as five books at a
time, not to mention magazines and other resources.
I do not have one child that shares my hunger for knowledge through
reading books, not one. We have seven children. Some don't like to
read at all, some are occasional, some read for knowlede only, etc.
None read and read and read like I do. This despite reading 30
books a week to my youngest son at our peak...we spent a lot of time
waiting in the car when we did that. My husband only reads when he
has to. He does not enjoy it at all.
None of these are better or worse than the other, but it is very
difficult for those of us that enjoy reading so much to even
understand "how" anyone that does not read often learns anything at
all. :-)
Tina
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
I took the OP to be saying that seeing you read, hearing you read has enabled your child to read. Not that it necessarily leads to becoming a bookophile.
It does lead to reading.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It does lead to reading.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Bookophile...Lol....I like that one. And I guess you are all right. Generalities don't work. Just because I'm a book nut, that may not have been why my kids are. ; )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/18/06, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
games for most of his lerning to read" :)
Michelle - whose son also learned to read because of his intense
passion for gaming
> For my son, I would blame video games for most of his learning to read.I think the word you are looking for is credit. "I would credit video
games for most of his lerning to read" :)
Michelle - whose son also learned to read because of his intense
passion for gaming
Tina
>It does lead to reading.>Maybe and maybe not...
Tina
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
>It does lead to reading.>Maybe and maybe not...
Tina
*******Can you elaborate a little? What do you mean by maybe not?
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 17, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Deb wrote:
with better special effects? Of the few I've seen I think they did a
good job of making the effects better without making it obvious. They
blend in well.
Does he know they're making new old classic Star Treks? A bunch of
people -- a few from the original series -- are donating their time
to create brand new adventures you can download for free. They're
treating them like plays so the characters are the same but new
actors play the parts. The sets and effects are quite well done. The
acting takes some getting used to ;-) (I'd suggest avoiding the
vignette "The Center Seat" until you've seen some later ones. It's
rather painful to watch since they're all so obviously *acting*. ;-)
http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/1024/episodes.php
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Star TrekDoes he know they've rereleased for syndication the original series
with better special effects? Of the few I've seen I think they did a
good job of making the effects better without making it obvious. They
blend in well.
Does he know they're making new old classic Star Treks? A bunch of
people -- a few from the original series -- are donating their time
to create brand new adventures you can download for free. They're
treating them like plays so the characters are the same but new
actors play the parts. The sets and effects are quite well done. The
acting takes some getting used to ;-) (I'd suggest avoiding the
vignette "The Center Seat" until you've seen some later ones. It's
rather painful to watch since they're all so obviously *acting*. ;-)
http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/1024/episodes.php
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]