[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/2006 11:11:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

Now I try to talk to them about how
it's not okay to hurt people and that if they behave this way as
adults, they will be punished or in jail. <<<<<<<<<<

Or they might be defending themselves from an attacker or saving another
person from being hurt. I don't tell my children not to hit and that it isn't
nice to hit, those types of things. If it were my boys (mine are 12 and 9) I
would have, instead of saying get off him, said "what is the problem". In
saying that they will stop fighting since they see you there and know you are
wanting to hear it. And yes I will listen to the "he hit me" " he hit me
first" but will try to gently guide them to the deeper problem " I wanted to play
XYZ game but Dallen doesn't want to" or "I want to be ABC character but Phil
says I can't". Once we get to the problem I can suggest that we move on to
solving the problem. Hitting is just a symptom, a tool they have found that
they have used in the past.

Once I have listened to Dallen, sitting with Phil, and Phil and I can
verbalize back to Dallen what we are hearing, and the other way around as well.
Then we can move on. By this time they have both settled down and are much
more in the process. They can both throw out suggestions that might work as a
solution, and I will too, although at this point they only need me some of the
time. Most of the time they are able to work things out on their own.
Remember that finding agreeable solutions is a learned tool. It takes practice.
Hitting may come easier but in time and with practice agreeable solutions
will come easier.

>>>now that my older son realizes he is not going to be punished, he is
blatantly pushing, hitting, and kicking younger brother even when I
am standing right there. <<<

Sounds like you have stopped punishing but haven't given them any tools to
use to replace the hitting when confronted with a problem.

Just a thought,
Pam G




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beth Mouser

Pam,

Thanks so much for the suggestions for how not to punish for
aggression among siblings. I think what you are saying makes alot of
sense. I will definitely start saying "what is the problem". But
(isn't there always a but...) I was wondering whether I could
say "let's try to solve problems by discussing rather than hitting"
or "can you think of another way to get what you want without
hitting". In other words, my underlying message is that hitting is
wrong when you are angry for not getting what you want. I agree that
hitting is okay for self-defense or rescuing someone.

Do your boys ever want you to punish the other when they've been
hurt? Mine always demand that I do (because I have in the
past). "You aren't even going to do anything to Mark...he hurt me
and you never punish him!". I don't know how to respond to that. I
don't want to outright tell them that I won't be punishing them
anymore. I am seeing though that when I don't punish, it is helping
me stay out of it moreso and them realizing they are accountable for
their conflicts. By staying out of it, I mean taking a listening
role and hopefully being there so it doesn't escalate. The big
problems occur when I'm not nearby and I am worried that someday one
of them will get seriously hurt, most likely the younger one who is
almost 20 pounds lighter. My older son has sensory integration
issues (some Asperger characteristics) and really does struggle with
regulation. He is generally happy, but can become explosive. I
read "The Explosive Child" a few years back, and am wondering if
that's the one where they want you to make them do exercises as an
extreme if they don't comply. That's what I'm thinking, but that
doesn't sound in line with this group.

Beth
--- In [email protected], Genant2@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/14/2006 11:11:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> Now I try to talk to them about how
> it's not okay to hurt people and that if they behave this way as
> adults, they will be punished or in jail. <<<<<<<<<<
>
> Or they might be defending themselves from an attacker or saving
another
> person from being hurt. I don't tell my children not to hit and
that it isn't
> nice to hit, those types of things. If it were my boys (mine are
12 and 9) I
> would have, instead of saying get off him, said "what is the
problem". In
> saying that they will stop fighting since they see you there and
know you are
> wanting to hear it. And yes I will listen to the "he hit me" " he
hit me
> first" but will try to gently guide them to the deeper problem " I
wanted to play
> XYZ game but Dallen doesn't want to" or "I want to be ABC
character but Phil
> says I can't". Once we get to the problem I can suggest that we
move on to
> solving the problem. Hitting is just a symptom, a tool they have
found that
> they have used in the past.
>
> Once I have listened to Dallen, sitting with Phil, and Phil and I
can
> verbalize back to Dallen what we are hearing, and the other way
around as well.
> Then we can move on. By this time they have both settled down and
are much
> more in the process. They can both throw out suggestions that
might work as a
> solution, and I will too, although at this point they only need me
some of the
> time. Most of the time they are able to work things out on their
own.
> Remember that finding agreeable solutions is a learned tool. It
takes practice.
> Hitting may come easier but in time and with practice agreeable
solutions
> will come easier.
>
> >>>now that my older son realizes he is not going to be punished,
he is
> blatantly pushing, hitting, and kicking younger brother even when
I
> am standing right there. <<<
>
> Sounds like you have stopped punishing but haven't given them any
tools to
> use to replace the hitting when confronted with a problem.
>
> Just a thought,
> Pam G
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Christy Mahoney

> Do your boys ever want you to punish the other when they've been
> hurt? Mine always demand that I do (because I have in the
> past).

My older dd (Darcy) does sometimes ask me to punish younger dd (Brenna)
even though I never really have been a punisher. I usually say that I
will talk to Brenna about it and see how she feels about what
happened, but I need to do it alone. Darcy really really wants things
to be "fair" and if she feels wronged, she wants some action! We do
not have much success with discussing things all together because she
cannot help but interrupt or tell Brenna that she's wrong or how to
feel or something along those lines.

Brenna, OTOH, usually stomps off to her room on her own to cool off.
She can certainly be the teaser at times, but she is more easily
distracted and is not concerned with fairness. (She told me that she
smiles at herself in the mirror when she's upset, and that always
helps her feel better. She told me to try it when I'm upset - so cute)

-Christy M.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: mouser4@...


Do your boys ever want you to punish the other when they've been
hurt? Mine always demand that I do (because I have in the
past). "You aren't even going to do anything to Mark...he hurt me
and you never punish him!". I don't know how to respond to that.

-=-=-=-

I don't usually respond to sibling questions because I have two
"onlies"---eight years apart. It's not an issue here.

"No one gets to be hurt---no punishments for ANYONE! Don't expect the
sibling to get one. It won't happen. Quit expecting it. When we know
better, we DO better. I know that punishment doesn't work, AND I know
that hurting someone doesn't make things right. I won't hurt either of
you, and I won't allow either of you to get hurt. It's my job to
protect EACH of you."


Since no one has suggested Sandra's solution, I'll post that:

Three steps:

1) talk it out
2) if that doesn't work, fnd an adult to help solve the problem
3) if that doesn't work, *then* they can hit.

They still have the option to hit---and just knowing they can could be
enough; BUT they have to exhaust the first two steps FIRST. ANd we know
that if they find the adult to help arbitrate, they will never get to
step 3.

~Kelly
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