Teresa

Hi,

I'm not sure if I've posted here before so, briefly, I am a 36 yr old
birthmother to two boys (13 and 3) and soon-to-be adoptive mother to
a little girl from Guatemala. I live in Wales, UK and I'm married to
dh 31.

My unschooling journey started when we decided not to send our 3 yr
old to nursery (in the Uk they start full time school the academic yr
they turn five. Nursery is half-day schooling from 3yrs-4). Having
read and read and read we also decided that our 13 yr old could leave
school if he wanted (he's always hated school with a passion, as did
I). He went back for a day in Sept and has been home since.

So, I'm really loving living and learning with them but I'm really,
really struggling with spending 24/7 with a teenager :(

At first it felt like having a new baby in the house (constantly
disorganised, can't get out of the house kind of thing), so gave in
to that and just spent some time at home re-centering, etc.

However, ds and I just don't seem to be able to even exchange words
at the moment without it descending into emotional chaos ! He is
heavily into a relationship with a 15 yr old girl he met at school
but who now lives three hours away by car.

We have tried to be as supportive as possible - he speaks to her all
the time via msn or the phone. We bought him an internet phone so
that he can get free calls, arranged a weekend away so that he could
visit her on the way (he stayed overnight at her parents, came back
with a neck covered in lovebites (hickies?) and sobbed the whole way
back and into the next day bcos he didn't want to leave her).

This relationship in itself is throwing up all sorts of issues for me
and I'm trying to talk things through with him calmly - issues about
emotional needs, physical needs, taking other people into
consideration, etc- but I am emotional and so is he so we each feel
attacked and not heard.

I expected some deschooling but all this on top is just stressing me
to the max. He's gone away with my mother for the weekend so I'm
hoping to get some perspective and advice in the meantime.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far-sorry its a bit long (and
probably garbled !).

Any advice ?

Teresa

Joanne

Hi Teresa,

Congratulations on your upcoming adoption. I run an online community
of adoptive and waiting parents if you're interested. Click this
link and go to "forums". The information on how to join is there.

http://www.foreverparents.com/index.html

As for your 13 year old son (I have one also), is he emotionally
ready for a relationship with a girl (especially one that's two
years older)? What kind of talks have you and your husband had with
him about this sort of thing before hand?

Did I read correctly that he's only been out of school since last
month, or is it last September? If it was last month, he's got a lot
of deschooling to do, especially that he's been in school for at
least 8-9 years.

Keep reading here, there's a lot of really good information. :-)

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html





--- In [email protected], "Teresa" <t_bulpin@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure if I've posted here before so, briefly, I am a 36 yr
old
> birthmother to two boys (13 and 3) and soon-to-be adoptive mother
to
> a little girl from Guatemala. I live in Wales, UK and I'm married
to
> dh 31.
>
> My unschooling journey started when we decided not to send our 3
yr
> old to nursery (in the Uk they start full time school the academic
yr
> they turn five. Nursery is half-day schooling from 3yrs-4).
Having
> read and read and read we also decided that our 13 yr old could
leave
> school if he wanted (he's always hated school with a passion, as
did
> I). He went back for a day in Sept and has been home since.
>
> So, I'm really loving living and learning with them but I'm
really,
> really struggling with spending 24/7 with a teenager :(
>
> At first it felt like having a new baby in the house (constantly
> disorganised, can't get out of the house kind of thing), so gave
in
> to that and just spent some time at home re-centering, etc.
>
> However, ds and I just don't seem to be able to even exchange
words
> at the moment without it descending into emotional chaos ! He is
> heavily into a relationship with a 15 yr old girl he met at school
> but who now lives three hours away by car.
>
> We have tried to be as supportive as possible - he speaks to her
all
> the time via msn or the phone. We bought him an internet phone so
> that he can get free calls, arranged a weekend away so that he
could
> visit her on the way (he stayed overnight at her parents, came
back
> with a neck covered in lovebites (hickies?) and sobbed the whole
way
> back and into the next day bcos he didn't want to leave her).
>
> This relationship in itself is throwing up all sorts of issues for
me
> and I'm trying to talk things through with him calmly - issues
about
> emotional needs, physical needs, taking other people into
> consideration, etc- but I am emotional and so is he so we each
feel
> attacked and not heard.
>
> I expected some deschooling but all this on top is just stressing
me
> to the max. He's gone away with my mother for the weekend so I'm
> hoping to get some perspective and advice in the meantime.
>
> Thanks for reading if you've got this far-sorry its a bit long
(and
> probably garbled !).
>
> Any advice ?
>
> Teresa
>

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

As an adoptee, I want to comment:
I am a 36 yr old
birthmother to two boys (13 and 3) and soon-to-be adoptive mother to
a little girl from Guatemala.
********
Please, for your ( and whoever is reading this and is in a similar situation) kids, just be their mom. Please don't distinguish between them like that.
Just be Mom to three.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

Don't you think that it might change the dynamic of what's going on?
Maybe the adoption is causing some attachment issues or the stress is
affecting the whole family...I thought it was pretty important piece
of the story!


Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 13, 2006, at 7:59 AM, Elissa Jill Cleaveland wrote:

> Please, for your ( and whoever is reading this and is in a similar
> situation) kids, just be their mom. Please don't distinguish
> between them like that.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

I don't have much experience parenting a teenager, but I remember
being 13 and totally in love with a guy. What I remember is my mom
telling me for the longest time, that 'love was a beautiful thing'
and 'we all make our own choices', but when it came down to it, what
she meant was that you can make your own choices as long as she
thought it was okay. When you are talking with him, try to keep in
mind that he is feeling attacked. So how else can you solve the
problem? Esp since there are younger kids in consideration, etc,
there needs to be some work in finding a middle ground. Sitting down
over coffee and talking isn't usually a guy brain way of solving
problems....some guys are like that, but some aren't. Talking at them
makes them feel attacked. Maybe he'd work better problem solving
while you guys are playing video games, or fishing, or hiking, or
shopping. Just saying "You know, I'm so glad you feel so much love
for X. I can tell you're happy to be with her and that makes me
happy. I am having trouble helping you though, what can we do to get
XYZ?" Build up to it though, don't expect to solve all the problems
in one hike, he's got to know that it's a safe topic to talk about
without you getting emotional, and it's good practice for you as
well. Maybe once ask what makes him so happy to be with her. Use
noncommittal responses..."Wow, I didn't know that", or "I remember
when I was 13 I felt that way about a guy". If he says you don't
understand, be willing to say "You're right, I can't know exactly how
you're feeling, but what I see is that you are happy to spend time
with her"

As mentioned he's still deschooling, and I'll bet you are too. It's
been a year of unschooling for us (two since leaving the school), and
I am still working on me. I think the 'month per year of school' may
be optimistic, because when you are working on your own issues as
well, you can't put your full energy into deschooling him, kwim? I
was in school thirteen years, so I figure I'm just now reaching the
proscribed one month per deadline, but I know that it's taking me
longer, esp having 1)lots of kids who are deschooling (three of them,
although Emily is doing great, she only had two years and easy ones
at that) 2)having my childhood issues pop up and 3) not local support.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 13, 2006, at 6:54 AM, Teresa wrote:

> This relationship in itself is throwing up all sorts of issues for me
> and I'm trying to talk things through with him calmly - issues about
> emotional needs, physical needs, taking other people into
> consideration, etc- but I am emotional and so is he so we each feel
> attacked and not heard.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

I'm not saying to ignore the adoption. I think that adopting is a very important emotional time for everyone as it would be with the birth of a new child. I think it is very important to be aware that stressing that HOW a child came to be in the family can make a difference in how the child views themself and how others may view them.
My parents are my parents. I happened to be born out of another woman's uterus. I have different genes, different medical history. Those are facts and can't (and shouldn't) be denied.
In discussing unschooling, we talk about the power of words and changing the way we speak of things in order to change our outlook. I think that blending the family to one whole requires the awareness of how certain words affect our outlooks.
"These are my 4 children, Mary, Mark, Luke and John." is different than
"These are my children Mary, Mark, and John and this is my adopted son Luke."
Luke is different, other.
If one uses a surrogate and donated eggs for example, one doesn't say, "This is my son Luke who was born via a surrogate with no genetic material from me." He's a son.
My parents (who did an awful lot wrong) did me a huge favor. They NEVER differentiated between my brothers and me by pointing out my adoption. I'm very grateful that I had a safe place to always feel a part of and not different, since there were so many other people in my life who would question me about being adopted, asking stupid questions like "Do you know who your "real" family is? (I lived with my "real" family)
Our society itself is very quick to point out adoptees, it still has a sort of stigma attached.
Many articles about TomKat are sure to point out that he also has two adopted children with Nicole Kidman. It's usually somewhere at the end of the article, almost as an after thought.
Another example is "They couldn't have children of their own, therefore they decided to adopt" Second choice. Not as good.
I think there is a world of difference between "Luke, who came to us when he was seven" and "Luke, my Adopted son" Capital A, labeled and different.

Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Teresa

Hi Elissa,

I struggled with whether to reply to your post. Firstly, your
comment was quite hurtful to me. This is probably because of me
feeling emotional as per the circumstances as described in my
original post but also because this was my first post and I felt as
though you were judging me knowing nothing about me.

It would be helpful to me if you could qualify your position on this
as I can't tell whether you are coming from a position of hurt,
misinformation (about me and my journey - obviously you have your own
experience of adoption) or something completely different. However,
I understand if this is not something you wish to share.

All of my children are individuals - each have their own stories and
unique needs as relates to their stories. For example, one is my
child from my first marriage and lived through divorce, another was
born with a birth defect that he receives ongoing treatment for,
etc. When it is relevant to the situation I will share this
information - not because it distinguishes the child in question and
marks them out as different (or any less loved) but because these
individual experiences are an important part of who we are (as
individuals and as a family.

If I'm posting on a club foot forum, I'll say something like mum to
two boys, one with club foot, if I'm posting on an adoption board,
I'll post something like I did here, if I'm posting on a babyloss
board I would also mention the three babies I lost to miscarriage and
our daughter who died aged one day, etc. I think you get the point.

I don't use one universal signature because all the information isn't
always relevant (and would take up the whole post ;)).

In the post in question I didn't feel able to post mum to three
because the adoption isn't final and she isn't our daughter yet.
Neither did I feel comfortable posting mum to two, soon to be three
because I felt it would be assumed I was pregnant (and that hormones
were a factor in the issues).

I can assure you that, when our daughter is officially ours she will
be every bit as equal as our other children - I'm actually deeply
offended at any hint of a suggestion otherwise - however, the fact
that she is adopted will also be freely discussed with her as it is a
huge part of who she is. I would like to think that one day she will
be proud to tell people she is adopted safe in the knowledge that she
is loved and lives and learns in a secure, loving environment and
having learned from that that adoption is not a dirty word (ie that
being described as an adoptee is neither hurtful nor unloving).

Teresa


--- In [email protected], "Elissa Jill Cleaveland"
<MystikMomma@...> wrote:
>
> As an adoptee, I want to comment:
> I am a 36 yr old
> birthmother to two boys (13 and 3) and soon-to-be adoptive mother
to
> a little girl from Guatemala.
> ********
> Please, for your ( and whoever is reading this and is in a similar
situation) kids, just be their mom. Please don't distinguish between
them like that.
> Just be Mom to three.
> Elissa Jill
> A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
> "A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Teresa

Hi Joanne,

Thanks for your reply.

> Congratulations on your upcoming adoption. I run an online
community
> of adoptive and waiting parents if you're interested. Click this
> link and go to "forums". The information on how to join is there.
>
> http://www.foreverparents.com/index.html

Thanks, I'll have a look :)

> As for your 13 year old son (I have one also), is he emotionally
> ready for a relationship with a girl (especially one that's two
> years older)? What kind of talks have you and your husband had with
> him about this sort of thing before hand?


He's had a few brief 'relationships' and one or two dates with girls
closer to his age (and much less physically mature), plus we've
always been very open about sex and stuff. Personally, this
relationship caught us a bit by surprise because of its intensity,
duration and the age difference.

Is he emotionally ready ? Well, this is the main thing that's been
bugging me because ,personally, I would say no based on the fact that
it seems to be completely consuming his life and that he's openly
been crying in front of people which he hates to do. I certainly
wasn't emotionally prepared - I feel in my gut he's too young.
However, he's generally a very stable, sensible person so I trust
that if he's doing it he's ready (the relationship I mean). He does
generally feel things very deeply and he's certainly showing that,
but I'm not sure that's a sign that he's not able to cope, just that
these are very strong feelings.

> Did I read correctly that he's only been out of school since last
> month, or is it last September? If it was last month, he's got a
lot
> of deschooling to do, especially that he's been in school for at
> least 8-9 years.

Yes, last month and yes, a lot of deschooling - do you think this is
part of it or that the timing is coincidental ?
>
> Keep reading here, there's a lot of really good information. :-)
>

Ta, I will ;)

Teresa

Teresa

Hi Melissa,

Thanks for your post - you raised some really important points that I
hadn't considered. I know I'm certainly stressed about the adoption,
and it probably does effect the atmosphere.

Your post also made me wonder whether ds needs some 'mothering' and
feels too old to ask. I know if he was a baby I'd put him in a sling
and spent lots of time together just to reconnect - don't think he
(or my back) would be up for that now though (lol)

Teresa

--- In [email protected], Melissa <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>
> Don't you think that it might change the dynamic of what's going
on?
> Maybe the adoption is causing some attachment issues or the stress
is
> affecting the whole family...I thought it was pretty important
piece
> of the story!
>
>
> Melissa
> Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
> (3), and Avari Rose
>
> share our lives at
> http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
>
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2006, at 7:59 AM, Elissa Jill Cleaveland wrote:
>
> > Please, for your ( and whoever is reading this and is in a
similar
> > situation) kids, just be their mom. Please don't distinguish
> > between them like that.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

jlh44music

"Teresa" <t_bulpin@...> wrote:

> In the post in question I didn't feel able to post mum to three
because the adoption isn't final and she isn't our daughter yet.
Neither did I feel comfortable posting mum to two, soon to be three
because I felt it would be assumed I was pregnant (and that hormones
were a factor in the issues).>>

Just wanted to chime in that I read it as you explaining your family
situation so we can get to know you, and not at all as treating your
children differently. I found it helpful.
Jann 8-)

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

Just wanted to chime in that I read it as you explaining your family
situation so we can get to know you******
As did I.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<Just wanted to chime in that I read it as you explaining your family
situation so we can get to know you, and not at all as treating your
children differently. I found it helpful.
Jann 8-)>>

Ditto.
Kathryn


-------------- Original message --------------
From: "jlh44music" <jlh44music@...>
"Teresa" <t_bulpin@...> wrote:

> In the post in question I didn't feel able to post mum to three
because the adoption isn't final and she isn't our daughter yet.
Neither did I feel comfortable posting mum to two, soon to be three
because I felt it would be assumed I was pregnant (and that hormones
were a factor in the issues).>>

Just wanted to chime in that I read it as you explaining your family
situation so we can get to know you, and not at all as treating your
children differently. I found it helpful.
Jann 8-)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanne

--- In [email protected], "Teresa" <t_bulpin@...> wrote:

>>>>I can assure you that, when our daughter is officially ours she will
be every bit as equal as our other children - I'm actually deeply
offended at any hint of a suggestion otherwise - however, the fact
that she is adopted will also be freely discussed with her as it is a
huge part of who she is. I would like to think that one day she will
be proud to tell people she is adopted safe in the knowledge that she
is loved and lives and learns in a secure, loving environment and
having learned from that that adoption is not a dirty word (ie that
being described as an adoptee is neither hurtful nor unloving).>>>>

I love what you wrote....and I agree. :-)

Someone posted (sorry I don't remember who) about showing no difference
between adopted and biological children....
My kids are *very* comfortable talking about their adoption and I'm
very proud to have adopted them. I'm not their *adoptive mother*...I'm
their mother, plain & simple...*but* the fact is...they came to us
*through* adoption and there are certain situations that may come up
because of it. That's why I created a private forum for parents who
have children that were adopted. When I invite someone, I always say
it's for adoptive & waiting parents because it's *not* open to adoptees
or birthparents and I need to make that clear upfront. But we don't
walk around calling ourselves adoptive parents...we're just parents.
:-)
I use the line "adopted into our hearts on 10/03" in my signature
because someone may see it and might want to know more about
adoption....especially older child adoption, which is the route we
went. (My kids were 5, 8 & 11 when we finalized the adoption). There
are a few members (three that I know off the top of my head) from these
unschooling lists that are now members of the adoption forum I run.
:-)

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: t_bulpin@...


So, I'm really loving living and learning with them but I'm really,
really struggling with spending 24/7 with a teenager :(

At first it felt like having a new baby in the house (constantly
disorganised, can't get out of the house kind of thing), so gave in
to that and just spent some time at home re-centering, etc.

-=-=-=-

Good. A huge part is the deschooling, the healing.

--=-=-=-=-

However, ds and I just don't seem to be able to even exchange words
at the moment without it descending into emotional chaos !

-=-=-=-=-

Don't make it worse by insisting. Maybe take a trip so that you are in
the front seat together for several hours. AMAZING conversations happen
when you aren't looking at each other. See Sandra's "Leaning on a
Truck" essay. www.SandraDodd.com/unschooling

-=-=-=-=-

We have tried to be as supportive as possible - he speaks to her all
the time via msn or the phone. We bought him an internet phone so
that he can get free calls, arranged a weekend away so that he could
visit her on the way (he stayed overnight at her parents, came back
with a neck covered in lovebites (hickies?) and sobbed the whole way
back and into the next day bcos he didn't want to leave her).

-=-=-=-

Long distance is hard!

-=-=-=-=-

This relationship in itself is throwing up all sorts of issues for me
and I'm trying to talk things through with him calmly - issues about
emotional needs, physical needs, taking other people into
consideration, etc- but I am emotional and so is he so we each feel
attacked and not heard.

-=-=-=-=-

Long drive. No radio.

-=-=-=-=-

I expected some deschooling but all this on top is just stressing me
to the max. He's gone away with my mother for the weekend so I'm
hoping to get some perspective and advice in the meantime.

--=--=-=-=-

Time apart is good too. But WILL he talk with you---about anything?
Start there.

I've never had issues with talking with Cameron (now 18). He's a
regular chatter box with me! But our deepest conversations have been on
trips to StLouis or Baltimore or somewhere far enough. Hell, you
already have three hour trips to see the girlfriend! <G> USE them! <g>

Stay calm and QUIET and let him talk---you don't need to say much at
all. Just nod and bite your tongue unless he asks a direct question.
Maybe an occasional "Why?" or How?" to keep it moving. But mostly
LISTEN; don't talk.

~Kelly
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