DH and his on-off unschooling habits
Ren Allen
This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be. A couple of times I've taken the girls into our bedroom
and locked the door, but he busted in the door. He's never hit them,
but has threatened once (by holding up his fist to my older daughter).
I've been with him over 24 years, and he has never hitten me, either.
My older daughter (who is 8 yo.) says he's scary, but that she knows
he wouldn't hurt her physically.
In all the time that I've been with my husband, since he was a teen,
he rarely lost his temper, though, since we've had kids (especially 2
kids), it has increased. Also, my husband's mom died a little over a
year ago and his anger has seemed to have significantly increased
since her death. He also has a very stressful job that he really
hates. We've looked for other jobs, but haven't found one that
doesn't require at least a significant drop in pay (and currently we
have too much debt to consider a large reduction in his pay, though,
we are trying to pay off the debt so this can eventually happen).
However, we will continue to look for a job. He also sees a therapist
every now and then, and although this helps, it is limited in value.
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
Thanks!
Anon poster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be. A couple of times I've taken the girls into our bedroom
and locked the door, but he busted in the door. He's never hit them,
but has threatened once (by holding up his fist to my older daughter).
I've been with him over 24 years, and he has never hitten me, either.
My older daughter (who is 8 yo.) says he's scary, but that she knows
he wouldn't hurt her physically.
In all the time that I've been with my husband, since he was a teen,
he rarely lost his temper, though, since we've had kids (especially 2
kids), it has increased. Also, my husband's mom died a little over a
year ago and his anger has seemed to have significantly increased
since her death. He also has a very stressful job that he really
hates. We've looked for other jobs, but haven't found one that
doesn't require at least a significant drop in pay (and currently we
have too much debt to consider a large reduction in his pay, though,
we are trying to pay off the debt so this can eventually happen).
However, we will continue to look for a job. He also sees a therapist
every now and then, and although this helps, it is limited in value.
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
Thanks!
Anon poster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Melissa
Hm, I will put in my perspective here, because our family is not a
big roughhouser.
While I agree that kids should be able to be kids, and that dh should
not lose his temper to the point of scaring kids, it sounds like your
husbands needs are completely dismissed. He doesn't like roughhousing
and running through the house, but I don't think it's about that. Or
maybe it is and he's sucking it up as long as he can stand, and
losing it. I really think it's about him needing a break, and needing
to feel listened to. If he's working all day, and then needs time to
relax, then there should be a meeting to discuss how that can happen.
Maybe he needs to stop at a coffee shop once or twice a week before
he gets home to unwind. Maybe the kids could just not run while he's
home. Maybe they could be gently reminded to take it outside.
We have lots of reasons why roughhousing does not occur in our four
walls. Primarily because we have a baby and a toddler who have gotten
really really hurt. We have an autistic daughter who can't handle the
noise, and also tries to imitate and causes unintentional damage.
Unschooling isn't about letting kids run wild, it's about considering
the needs of everyone. You mentioned several issues that may be
contributing, they should be taken into consideration as well. If dh
is sad, he needs extra help. If he lost his mother, then it's a great
time to explain to the kids, "Dad isn't feeling good today, he's sad.
Can we find a quieter way to play?" Talk to dh and ask him to tell
you guys before he's losing his temper that he can't handle loudness
right now. EIght is plenty old enough to understand other people's
feelings, and old enough to brainstorm alternatives to place, time
and play.
In my house, i would talk to dh one night, after kids are asleep or
out on a date, and just say that we're not mind readers, and if he
needs something, he can talk about it. For a long time here, we
dismissed all adult needs and it really does not work well. Stress
builds up and ugly things are said or happen. good luck with whatever
you decide to do.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
big roughhouser.
While I agree that kids should be able to be kids, and that dh should
not lose his temper to the point of scaring kids, it sounds like your
husbands needs are completely dismissed. He doesn't like roughhousing
and running through the house, but I don't think it's about that. Or
maybe it is and he's sucking it up as long as he can stand, and
losing it. I really think it's about him needing a break, and needing
to feel listened to. If he's working all day, and then needs time to
relax, then there should be a meeting to discuss how that can happen.
Maybe he needs to stop at a coffee shop once or twice a week before
he gets home to unwind. Maybe the kids could just not run while he's
home. Maybe they could be gently reminded to take it outside.
We have lots of reasons why roughhousing does not occur in our four
walls. Primarily because we have a baby and a toddler who have gotten
really really hurt. We have an autistic daughter who can't handle the
noise, and also tries to imitate and causes unintentional damage.
Unschooling isn't about letting kids run wild, it's about considering
the needs of everyone. You mentioned several issues that may be
contributing, they should be taken into consideration as well. If dh
is sad, he needs extra help. If he lost his mother, then it's a great
time to explain to the kids, "Dad isn't feeling good today, he's sad.
Can we find a quieter way to play?" Talk to dh and ask him to tell
you guys before he's losing his temper that he can't handle loudness
right now. EIght is plenty old enough to understand other people's
feelings, and old enough to brainstorm alternatives to place, time
and play.
In my house, i would talk to dh one night, after kids are asleep or
out on a date, and just say that we're not mind readers, and if he
needs something, he can talk about it. For a long time here, we
dismissed all adult needs and it really does not work well. Stress
builds up and ugly things are said or happen. good luck with whatever
you decide to do.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Oct 11, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
> This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:
>
> This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
> the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
> play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
> blows like a volcano!
> <snip>
> Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
> little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
> losing his temper?
>
>> .
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote: This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be.
*** We have a similar but much more mild reaction in our house at times. It can come from either parent <grin>. What we try to do is let the other know when we have hit the end of our rope. The other parent can take the kids for a few minutes. We are usually able to stay in the house, but if it is extreme, maybe a trip for ice cream or the park woud be good. I would think anyone in the family would be able to see the signs.
Also watch for the normal triggers. At our house mealtimes and leaving can be very stressful. I am constantly watching for ways to make these easier. Anything to make the house run more smoothly would be great.
HTH, Amanda
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be.
*** We have a similar but much more mild reaction in our house at times. It can come from either parent <grin>. What we try to do is let the other know when we have hit the end of our rope. The other parent can take the kids for a few minutes. We are usually able to stay in the house, but if it is extreme, maybe a trip for ice cream or the park woud be good. I would think anyone in the family would be able to see the signs.
Also watch for the normal triggers. At our house mealtimes and leaving can be very stressful. I am constantly watching for ways to make these easier. Anything to make the house run more smoothly would be great.
HTH, Amanda
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/2006 10:03:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
___
There may not be anything you can do differently with the kids to keep your
husband from losing his temper unless he sees it as a problem and chooses to
do something about it.
Does he understand the damage he is causing to your children and to your
relationship?
I don't think it has anything at all to do with your unschooling lifestyle.
I would venture a guess here based on some personal experiences that your
husband may be depressed. Your post suggests that some life changes have
increased his anger outbursts.
When looking for so possible solutions, please consider this and find a
therapist who will consider the possibility. While it is important for you and
your husband to work together to create a nurturing home, change needs to
happen within him and not with you changing the environment for him.
Emotional abuse of this kind that causes a child to be frightened of their
father can have life long consequences. It's very easy to make excuses for
the abuser and also to think that your actions can keep it from happening
again. I grew up in a home like this and was in a marriage like this without
understanding the damage it caused to both me and eventually my children. There
are answers but it may take a considerable amount of time, money and energy
on both of your parts to find what works for you. My heartfelt advice is to
invest whatever it takes starting right now.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
___
There may not be anything you can do differently with the kids to keep your
husband from losing his temper unless he sees it as a problem and chooses to
do something about it.
Does he understand the damage he is causing to your children and to your
relationship?
I don't think it has anything at all to do with your unschooling lifestyle.
I would venture a guess here based on some personal experiences that your
husband may be depressed. Your post suggests that some life changes have
increased his anger outbursts.
When looking for so possible solutions, please consider this and find a
therapist who will consider the possibility. While it is important for you and
your husband to work together to create a nurturing home, change needs to
happen within him and not with you changing the environment for him.
Emotional abuse of this kind that causes a child to be frightened of their
father can have life long consequences. It's very easy to make excuses for
the abuser and also to think that your actions can keep it from happening
again. I grew up in a home like this and was in a marriage like this without
understanding the damage it caused to both me and eventually my children. There
are answers but it may take a considerable amount of time, money and energy
on both of your parts to find what works for you. My heartfelt advice is to
invest whatever it takes starting right now.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
This post hit a (painful) spot with me. My first spouse was(is) a manic depressive, who was(is) violent. I beg you to seek counsiling as nothing good comes from the rages. Yes, the kids could cool the rough-housing, yes, his needs can be met better (maybe). But as someone who has lived the life of walking on eggshells, I wouldn't recommend it. In four years of marriage, he shattered 16 doors. The list is long and sad and violent. The ex has gotten much (much, much) worse even though we live far away now. (We keep a constant watch out for him, still, as he said he was going to kill us.) My only advise is to prepare for the what if's and make a plan. Then put down the ultimatum. This stops! Get help! Or we leave! My daughter (and I) still carries the emotional scares from her father's temper and threats. You need extremely detailed records for the courts to lift a finger and they don't deal with emotional abuse. (I have first hand knowledge)
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:54:14 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] DH and his on-off unschooling habits
This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:
~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be. A couple of times I've taken the girls into our bedroom
and locked the door, but he busted in the door. He's never hit them,
but has threatened once (by holding up his fist to my older daughter).
I've been with him over 24 years, and he has never hitten me, either.
My older daughter (who is 8 yo.) says he's scary, but that she knows
he wouldn't hurt her physically.
In all the time that I've been with my husband, since he was a teen,
he rarely lost his temper, though, since we've had kids (especially 2
kids), it has increased. Also, my husband's mom died a little over a
year ago and his anger has seemed to have significantly increased
since her death. He also has a very stressful job that he really
hates. We've looked for other jobs, but haven't found one that
doesn't require at least a significant drop in pay (and currently we
have too much debt to consider a large reduction in his pay, though,
we are trying to pay off the debt so this can eventually happen).
However, we will continue to look for a job. He also sees a therapist
every now and then, and although this helps, it is limited in value.
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
Thanks!
Anon poster
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:54:14 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] DH and his on-off unschooling habits
This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:
~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
My dh talks a good unschooling talk (he's more open about it than I
am-lol), but doesn't always walk the unschooling walk. He's a
wonderful guy, but his anger and his childhood seem to get in the way.
This occurs several times a month, at least, where he gets tired of
the kids roughhousing (running around, chasing each other) usually in
play (though, sometimes in dispute). This drives my dh crazy and he
blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
through fear. He's a really big guy, 6'2" and 275 lbs., so when he
gets really mad it can be scary. His face gets red and he yells at
the top of his voice and then stomps loudly to wherever the kids
happen to be. A couple of times I've taken the girls into our bedroom
and locked the door, but he busted in the door. He's never hit them,
but has threatened once (by holding up his fist to my older daughter).
I've been with him over 24 years, and he has never hitten me, either.
My older daughter (who is 8 yo.) says he's scary, but that she knows
he wouldn't hurt her physically.
In all the time that I've been with my husband, since he was a teen,
he rarely lost his temper, though, since we've had kids (especially 2
kids), it has increased. Also, my husband's mom died a little over a
year ago and his anger has seemed to have significantly increased
since her death. He also has a very stressful job that he really
hates. We've looked for other jobs, but haven't found one that
doesn't require at least a significant drop in pay (and currently we
have too much debt to consider a large reduction in his pay, though,
we are trying to pay off the debt so this can eventually happen).
However, we will continue to look for a job. He also sees a therapist
every now and then, and although this helps, it is limited in value.
Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've tried to empathize, but maybe it's too
little too late. How can I let my kids be kids without my husband
losing his temper?
Thanks!
Anon poster
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
> This drives my dh crazy and heIf a kid going through rages, people would suggest talking to him
> blows like a volcano! He yells at me saying that my parenting isn't
> helping, so he's going to go back to the way that it should be -
> through fear.
when he's in a good mood -- go for a walk, go for coffee ... --- and
talk about what it feels like when it starts building up and what he
could do before he reaches that point, as well as other choices he
could make when it's gone too far. (A punching bag?)
Treat him as though he's doing the best he can. He probably never had
anyone help him deal with anger and frustration. Mostly this society
says negative feelings are wrong so we grit our teeth and stuff it
down. Or we deny responsibility for our feelings and see the
situation is at fault and blame others for our feelings.
It's probably, as you said, a combination of his mother's death and
the job. And his ability to stuff it down is impaired. He's feeling
things more so the techniques that have (barely) worked before now
just aren't up to the task. Help him learn new techniques.
But you can also help him, and model compassion for your kids by
talking about the rough stuff your husband is going through and
figuring out new ways to avoid adding to his frustration. Don't do it
because you fear his reaction but because you want to help him and
not add to his burden. It sounds like you're trying to make your
bedtime routine work when what's really needed is a new bedtime
routine and soliciting the kids' help. If one thing doesn't work,
talk about it, and try something else.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/11/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
by his actions. I've worked with our women's abuse shelter and they
do assist families where someone is being mentally and emotionally
abused. You are abused by fear. This is not healthy for anyone
(including your spouse)!
I think your problem is bigger than an unschooling issue. This is
about a safety issue. How can one feel safe if there is someone
breaking down doors? Please call your local abuse shelter. They can
lead you to resources that can help everyone even if you don't wish to
divorce your spouse. They have resources such as support groups,
counselors, therapists, literature, web resources, etc that you can
use. Your children cannot fully unschool with freedom and joy when
someone is threatening their safety let alone their freedom to
unschool.
Michelle
> This was emailed to me with a request to post anonymously:A couple of times I've taken the girls into our bedroom
>
> and locked the door, but he busted in the door. He's never hit them,Abuse does not have to include physical abuse. You are being abused
> but has threatened once (by holding up his fist to my older daughter).
> I've been with him over 24 years, and he has never hitten me, either.
> My older daughter (who is 8 yo.) says he's scary, but that she knows
> he wouldn't hurt her physically.
>
by his actions. I've worked with our women's abuse shelter and they
do assist families where someone is being mentally and emotionally
abused. You are abused by fear. This is not healthy for anyone
(including your spouse)!
I think your problem is bigger than an unschooling issue. This is
about a safety issue. How can one feel safe if there is someone
breaking down doors? Please call your local abuse shelter. They can
lead you to resources that can help everyone even if you don't wish to
divorce your spouse. They have resources such as support groups,
counselors, therapists, literature, web resources, etc that you can
use. Your children cannot fully unschool with freedom and joy when
someone is threatening their safety let alone their freedom to
unschool.
Michelle