Deb Lewis

***I don't feel sorry for Ren. I just am wondering if she doesn't believe
that
everything we do influences our children. ***

---*** I am sorry that you don't feel
that you "teach " your children***---

We all influence our kids but "influence" and "teach" are not the same
thing.

***I do not judge others even after I get to know them.***

---***but also enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn***---

What you're writing and what you're writing are not the same things. <g>

You really don't judge people? Even after you get to know them you've made
no judgments about them? You would leave your kid with mean people who use
illegal drugs and that would seem as good to you as leaving your kids with
nice people who don't?

I had an interesting conversation with a friend last week. She said she
didn't like people judging her. But I said I had judged her to be nice,
honest, trustworthy and intelligent. Did she feel that was a bad thing?

What people mean when they say they don't like to be judged is they don't
want to be thought of badly. Part of what other people think of us is up
to us. If they are thinking badly of us they feel they have a reason. To
ignore that or to say it's only because they are "judgmental" (and therefore
bad - if we've deemed judgment a bad thing - which is judgmental... holy
buckets it's gets sloppy) gives us an out. Then we don't have to look at
our behavior toward them to see where we might have left them with a bad
impression of us, we only have to say "I don't like judgmental people."

My friend grew up in a family where she was always compared with her
siblings. She had a twin and my friend feels her twin always did everything
right while she was made to feel she always did everything wrong. Her
parent pointed out every mistake their children made. They made her feel
small and inadequate and now when *anyone,* even a stranger, gives her even
the slightest impression they're not totally pleased with her in all ways
she calls them judgmental. Judgmental people have become her band-aide.
The wounds are there, the lack of confidence, feelings of inadequacy and
shame but she hasn't healed. So she covers those sore places with the
bandaide of thinking of others as judgmental if something they say or do
pokes at one of her sore places.

***I am my children's
teacher as I have taught them all the things they can do. Such as: using the
bathroom on their own, how to make bread , how to be a good listener to
their
friends and family, how to speak properly to adults using yes ma'm and/or
sir. ***

My son learned to use the bathroom because he saw us doing it that way and
because he's a human too and humans learn. My son doesn't make bread but he
makes beautiful round soft tortillas and he learned to do that by making
lots of tortillas that weren't so big or round or soft. <g> My son listens
to people because people listen to him. My son rarely if ever says yes
ma'am or sir because he addresses people by their names, the way they do
him. I would not encourage him to ma'am and sir people, frankly. I don't
believe ma'am or sir is more respectful than Sue or Bob. *Especially* if
Sue and Bob call Dylan by his first name. <g>

So my kid learned the things he needs without a teacher. He lived with
people who cared about him and he did what those people were doing. Yes we
influenced him. He knows how his parents feel about life's big issues or
if he wants to know our opinions (and in the rare event we haven't
frequently and loudly expressed them already) he asks. He is like us in
some ways but in all ways he thinks like Dylan. <g>

*** My ideas of unschoolong aren't that far off from yours as far as I am
concerned.***

I think they might be but this isn't a contest!<g> You get to have your
own ideas. This list can give you more or new ideas if you want or need
them, though.

Deb Lewis

Vickisue Gray

Very well stated...I wish I were so clear.

Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote: ***I don't feel sorry for Ren. I just am wondering if she doesn't believe
that
everything we do influences our children. ***

---*** I am sorry that you don't feel
that you "teach " your children***---

We all influence our kids but "influence" and "teach" are not the same
thing.

***I do not judge others even after I get to know them.***

---***but also enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn***---

What you're writing and what you're writing are not the same things. <g>

You really don't judge people? Even after you get to know them you've made
no judgments about them? You would leave your kid with mean people who use
illegal drugs and that would seem as good to you as leaving your kids with
nice people who don't?

I had an interesting conversation with a friend last week. She said she
didn't like people judging her. But I said I had judged her to be nice,
honest, trustworthy and intelligent. Did she feel that was a bad thing?

What people mean when they say they don't like to be judged is they don't
want to be thought of badly. Part of what other people think of us is up
to us. If they are thinking badly of us they feel they have a reason. To
ignore that or to say it's only because they are "judgmental" (and therefore
bad - if we've deemed judgment a bad thing - which is judgmental... holy
buckets it's gets sloppy) gives us an out. Then we don't have to look at
our behavior toward them to see where we might have left them with a bad
impression of us, we only have to say "I don't like judgmental people."

My friend grew up in a family where she was always compared with her
siblings. She had a twin and my friend feels her twin always did everything
right while she was made to feel she always did everything wrong. Her
parent pointed out every mistake their children made. They made her feel
small and inadequate and now when *anyone,* even a stranger, gives her even
the slightest impression they're not totally pleased with her in all ways
she calls them judgmental. Judgmental people have become her band-aide.
The wounds are there, the lack of confidence, feelings of inadequacy and
shame but she hasn't healed. So she covers those sore places with the
bandaide of thinking of others as judgmental if something they say or do
pokes at one of her sore places.

***I am my children's
teacher as I have taught them all the things they can do. Such as: using the
bathroom on their own, how to make bread , how to be a good listener to
their
friends and family, how to speak properly to adults using yes ma'm and/or
sir. ***

My son learned to use the bathroom because he saw us doing it that way and
because he's a human too and humans learn. My son doesn't make bread but he
makes beautiful round soft tortillas and he learned to do that by making
lots of tortillas that weren't so big or round or soft. <g> My son listens
to people because people listen to him. My son rarely if ever says yes
ma'am or sir because he addresses people by their names, the way they do
him. I would not encourage him to ma'am and sir people, frankly. I don't
believe ma'am or sir is more respectful than Sue or Bob. *Especially* if
Sue and Bob call Dylan by his first name. <g>

So my kid learned the things he needs without a teacher. He lived with
people who cared about him and he did what those people were doing. Yes we
influenced him. He knows how his parents feel about life's big issues or
if he wants to know our opinions (and in the rare event we haven't
frequently and loudly expressed them already) he asks. He is like us in
some ways but in all ways he thinks like Dylan. <g>

*** My ideas of unschoolong aren't that far off from yours as far as I am
concerned.***

I think they might be but this isn't a contest!<g> You get to have your
own ideas. This list can give you more or new ideas if you want or need
them, though.

Deb Lewis






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-----Original Message-----
From: vickisue_gray@......

Very well stated...I wish I were so clear.

Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-

Yeah---that's why I love her! <g>

I've been after our moderators to write more. They're just TOO
brilliant!

~Kelly
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Deb Lewis

***The wounds are there, the lack of confidence, feelings of inadequacy and
shame but she hasn't healed.***

That should have been "because" she hasn't healed. The way I wrote it
makes no sense. That was the first time I ever wrote anything that didn't
make sense. <snort> Help, my pants are on fire!

It still surprises me how much emotional injury stays with us from our
childhood. But it can't leave us if we won't let go of it. If we insist
what was done to us was "good parenting" or "education" and we continue to
believe it's ok to do that to our kids we can never heal. That's why I
find unschoolers so interesting. They look at everything. They question.
They examine long held beliefs and ideas.

You're all a bunch of nuts, you know that? <g>

Deb Lewis