Deb Lewis

***I do unschool and feel that I teach my children every day I have no set
agenda like math science and such but do teach them I am sorry that you
don't feel
that you "teach " your children because the parent is the #1 influence in
the
child's life I am a stay at home mother and feel that I do "teach " my
children I do
not use books and such if that is what you mean by "teach" please do not
judge
as I do not judge you as I do not even know you.***

You don't have to feel sorry for Ren because she doesn't feel she "teaches"
her kids. Ren has given careful consideration to the unschooling
philosophy, knows it and lives it. She and other unschoolers have taken
the time to think about what it means to be an unschooler.

Today maybe you should teach your kids about punctuation. You have ninety
eight words in that sentence. Maybe your kids will learn about writing
from reading good books. I'm teasing you a little. I don't honestly care
much about how people write. I'm not famous for spelling or grammar or
punctuation and will likely never be interested enough to attempt to impress
anyone. But if you're going to insist on the importance of *you as teacher*
you should remember what we understand about you comes only from what you
write.

When unschoolers talk about the difference between teaching and learning
they hope to show how the power, the action, the process is located in the
learner. A "teacher" can talk and instruct and teach and inform until the
cows come home but if the audience has tuned the teacher out, or ignored the
teacher or learned not the believe the teacher or is simply not interested,
no learning will take place. The focus of unschooling is not teaching.
Don't be so invested in being a "teacher" that you fail to see the real
power and magic is in the learner.

Maybe you've already received this link (I'm behind in list mail) but there
are some very nice bits about teaching and learning here:
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

***please do not judge
as I do not judge you as I do not even know you.***

I hope you're using some judgment here when you read and when you think
about what seems logical and right. We are definitely judging your
understanding of unschooling based on what you write and definitely offering
advice/ideas/information based on our judgments.

And the above statement isn't even true if you've already judged Ren at
least as being judgmental and in need of your sympathy because she doesn't
even know she's her children's teacher.

***but also enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn***

Is this more of that not judging thing? <G>

***Sorry but maybe this group isn't for me as I have had no
real help with my version of unschooling which I feel is going well I am
teaching my children life skills that they need to know when they grow up I
also let them be children and learn what they are interested in but also
enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn.***

I believe you can find a lot of good information here. You should also
find a local unschooling list or group because those people unschooling in
your area will be knowledgeable about the laws and requirements. They may
be able to recommend an unschooling friendly teacher if you need one.

If you feel your "version" of unschooling is going well why are you
complaining about not having any real help from this list? I don't
understand.
We can help you learn ways to put the principals of unschooling into
practice in your home if that's what you'd like to be able to do.



Deb Lewis

Tommy

I don't feel sorry for Ren. I just am wondering if she doesn't believe that everything we do influences our children. I believe that the parent (s) are the number one influence in their children lives. I believe that children learn how to become individuals through their parent(s). I know what it is to unschool. My children live life to learn. Teaching my own children is the greatest gift. I believe that children are influenced greatly by their parents.

I do not judge others even after I get to know them. I don't like to be judged as I am sure none of you like to be judged. I was raised to respect people until they give me a reason not to.

As far as punctuation goes my mother was an english teacher. I feel that my children are just a bit young to learn about that as they are 5 and 3. My seven year old knows how to write a letter with capitilization and punctuation as she writes to her grandparents on a daily basis. As far as the reading goes my daughter can read and comprehend books written for all ages.

As far as a teacher and a learner I have come to find out that my children can be my teacher at times and I the learner. I do feel like I am my children's teacher as I have taught them all the things they can do. Such as: using the bathroom on their own, how to make bread , how to be a good listener to their friends and family, how to speak properly to adults using yes ma'm and/or sir. I always have compliments on how well behaved my children are.

My children know that they can come to me with anything. I also feel that if I fail my children then I failed life because I believe I was sent here to learn from them as well as them learn from me.
My ideas of unschoolong aren't that far off from yours as far as I am concerned. I have not judged anyone.

GracieAnn
----- Original Message -----
From: Deb Lewis
To: UBLIST
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Where do I find a certified teacher to


***I do unschool and feel that I teach my children every day I have no set
agenda like math science and such but do teach them I am sorry that you
don't feel
that you "teach " your children because the parent is the #1 influence in
the
child's life I am a stay at home mother and feel that I do "teach " my
children I do
not use books and such if that is what you mean by "teach" please do not
judge
as I do not judge you as I do not even know you.***

You don't have to feel sorry for Ren because she doesn't feel she "teaches"
her kids. Ren has given careful consideration to the unschooling
philosophy, knows it and lives it. She and other unschoolers have taken
the time to think about what it means to be an unschooler.

Today maybe you should teach your kids about punctuation. You have ninety
eight words in that sentence. Maybe your kids will learn about writing
from reading good books. I'm teasing you a little. I don't honestly care
much about how people write. I'm not famous for spelling or grammar or
punctuation and will likely never be interested enough to attempt to impress
anyone. But if you're going to insist on the importance of *you as teacher*
you should remember what we understand about you comes only from what you
write.

When unschoolers talk about the difference between teaching and learning
they hope to show how the power, the action, the process is located in the
learner. A "teacher" can talk and instruct and teach and inform until the
cows come home but if the audience has tuned the teacher out, or ignored the
teacher or learned not the believe the teacher or is simply not interested,
no learning will take place. The focus of unschooling is not teaching.
Don't be so invested in being a "teacher" that you fail to see the real
power and magic is in the learner.

Maybe you've already received this link (I'm behind in list mail) but there
are some very nice bits about teaching and learning here:
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

***please do not judge
as I do not judge you as I do not even know you.***

I hope you're using some judgment here when you read and when you think
about what seems logical and right. We are definitely judging your
understanding of unschooling based on what you write and definitely offering
advice/ideas/information based on our judgments.

And the above statement isn't even true if you've already judged Ren at
least as being judgmental and in need of your sympathy because she doesn't
even know she's her children's teacher.

***but also enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn***

Is this more of that not judging thing? <G>

***Sorry but maybe this group isn't for me as I have had no
real help with my version of unschooling which I feel is going well I am
teaching my children life skills that they need to know when they grow up I
also let them be children and learn what they are interested in but also
enforce
rules and boundries which maybe to you something you need to learn.***

I believe you can find a lot of good information here. You should also
find a local unschooling list or group because those people unschooling in
your area will be knowledgeable about the laws and requirements. They may
be able to recommend an unschooling friendly teacher if you need one.

If you feel your "version" of unschooling is going well why are you
complaining about not having any real help from this list? I don't
understand.
We can help you learn ways to put the principals of unschooling into
practice in your home if that's what you'd like to be able to do.

Deb Lewis





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: tommyhawk41256@...


Huge can o' worms---HUGE!

-=-=-=-=-

I don't feel sorry for Ren. I just am wondering if she doesn't
believe that
everything we do influences our children.

-=-=-=-

Ren knows that what we do influences our children. That's why it's
important for our children to know that they are natural learners. NOT
empty vessels to be filled by their all-knowing parents.

-=-=-=-=-

Of I believe that children learn how
to become individuals through their parent(s)

-=-=-=--=

Uh....children are BORN individuals. They don't "learn how to become."

-=-=-=-=-

. I know what it is to unschool.

-=-=-=-

Maybe not.

-=-=-=-

My children live life to learn.

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe they need to learn to live life.

-=-=-=-=-

Teaching my own children is the greatest gift.

-=-=-=-=-

The greatest gifts might be trust and respect and patience. They lcome
into thos world learning just fine.

-=-=-=-=-=

I believe that children are influenced greatly by their parents.

-=-=-=-=-

Me too, but it's just as easy to influence in a *negative* way as in a
positive one. I'd like mine to know that THEY are the learners---that
they have that power. NOT that "I AM THE TEACHER!"

-=-=-=-=-

I do not judge others even after I get to know them. I don't like to be
judged
as I am sure none of you like to be judged. I was raised to respect
people until
they give me a reason not to.

-=-=-=-=-

And to give you that reason---are you not judging them then?

We should all be making judgments---and all the time. That's how we
make sense out of our world.

-=-=-=-=-

As far as punctuation goes my mother was an english teacher. I feel
that my
children are just a bit young to learn about that as they are 5 and 3.
My seven
year old knows how to write a letter with capitilization and
punctuation as she
writes to her grandparents on a daily basis. As far as the reading goes
my
daughter can read and comprehend books written for all ages.

-=-=-=-

The point Deb was making is that you were insisting that teaching is of
utmost importance. If it really is, then you might want to clean up the
grammar and punctuation a bit. As learners, we can make those judgments
ourselves. As students, we are at the mercy of our "teachers."

Oh---and it's not too early to learn something. We learn when we are
ready.

-=-=-=-=-

As far as a teacher and a learner I have come to find out that my
children can
be my teacher at times and I the learner. I do feel like I am my
children's
teacher as I have taught them all the things they can do.

-=-=-=-

Yikes. ALL the things they can do? Really?

-=-=-=-=-

My children know that they can come to me with anything. I also feel
that if I
fail my children then I failed life because I believe I was sent here
to learn
from them as well as them learn from me.

-=-=--=-

And exactlky how would you be graded on this? What would make you a
failure?

-=-=-=-=

My ideas of unschoolong aren't that far off from yours as far as I am
concerned.
I have not judged anyone.
-=-=-=-=-

*I* think they may be very far off.

Have you read here a while? The archives too?

Have you read at www.SandraDodd.com/unschooling John Holt's books?
Rue Kream's?

Do you know any other unschoolers?

~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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[email protected]

In a message dated 10/6/2006 4:57:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

My children live life to learn.

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe they need to learn to live life.



Wow this is huge to me im not sure why this jumps out at me but seeing
these 2 sentences like this is just........... Would it be wrong to paste these
into my blog and try to explain why this jumps at me?

Chrissy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 6, 2006, at 3:52 PM, Tommy wrote:

> I just am wondering if she doesn't believe that everything we do
> influences our children.

There's a huge difference between influencing and teaching.

*Seeing* and understanding how they're different is often key to a
deeper understanding of unschooling. Which is the point people are
trying to make. Not necessarily to you, but to all who are reading.

Unschoolers can call what we do with our kids teaching or learning or
influencing or glorping. It doesn't change what we do ... and yet
when we keep learning and influencing in the teaching box we don't
get to see how they're profoundly different! :-)

Teaching is about *pushing* what the teacher thinks is important into
a person.

Learning is about a person *pulling* what interests them in and
making sense of it.

Influencing is about living and being and letting another person pull
in what they want and ignore what they don't want.

> I believe that children learn how to become individuals through
> their parent(s).

I know that unschooling parents create an environment where children
are allowed to blossom as the individuals they already are.

> Teaching my own children is the greatest gift. I believe that
> children are influenced greatly by their parents.

My daughter has learned tons from me. And from her father. And other
people and places too.

I am probably the biggest influence on her. But I think for people
trying to understand unschooling rather than seeing parents as the
source of what children learn, it's more helpful to see the child
pulling in the world that interests them. *Part* of that, a pretty
big part, is what I do and say. *Part* of that is what I expose her
to. And that's awesome and a big responsibility. BUT, to really,
deeply understand unschooling it's important to see that our kids
will be learning from *everything* they turn to, especially their
interests: us, Spongebob Squarepants, mud, Rob Zombie, Google, Art
Trading Cards, Pokemon, rocks, plastic dinosaurs, elevators, Shirley
Temple, bread baking, iPods, role playing games, Photoshop, Coke and
Mentos, YouTube.com ....

They take it in. They process it. They make sense of it. They use it.
Valuing that part of the learning process is what makes unschooling
unique.

> I do not judge others even after I get to know them.

I think judging has gotten a bad rep! Judge gets equated with
judgmental: "having or displaying an excessively critical point of
view."

That *isn't* what anyone's doing here. But we each are, individually,
for ourselves, weighing and thinking about and judging *ideas* -- not
judging people! ideas!-- deciding what is good for us and what is bad
for us. That's a *good* thing!

You had to judge that the idea of homeschooling or unschooling was
better than school in order to decide to do it! ;-)

> I do feel like I am my children's teacher as I have taught them all
> the things they can do.

Think of this as directed at the idea you presented rather than at
you. The words are directed to anyone who is thinking about that idea:

I think it helps people understand unschooling to see that we help
our kids a lot but that our kids are doing the important part:
figuring out and making connections and learning. We're there to
present ideas. They take them in and make sense of them.

But regardless of how much influence we have, the majority of the
work of learning goes on inside of the child. *That's* the important
distinction between traditional views of learning and unschooling.
Traditionally the focus is on what's outside and the tricks to get it
inside a child. It helps unschoolers a lot to see that while the
parents create the environment -- including us, our willingness to
help, our willingness to share what we feel is important -- the child
does whatever is meaningful for the child with what we give them
access to.

We can create an environment that encourages walking, but we can't
teach a child to walk. We can call creating the environment and
speaking words of encouragement teaching, but we're missing the
fundamental part of the learning that unschooling focuses on.

We can create an environment for learning to ride a bike, encourage
them, tell them balance and safety tips, buy them a helmet, make sure
they have a safe place to learn but you could package all that up and
hand it to a child and they wouldn't know how to ride. All the
learning happens inside. It's about feeling and noticing and making
mistakes and getting physical feedback from what you're doing. That's
the important part of learning.

> Such as: using the bathroom on their own, how to make bread , how
> to be a good listener to their friends and family, how to speak
> properly to adults using yes ma'm and/or sir. I always have
> compliments on how well behaved my children are.

And school teachers would have a very similar description of what
they do with their students.

But if we try to use the image of what teachers do in order to
unschool ... well, it stymies most new to unschooling. All of us
already know how to teach. We may not do it well, but we thoroughly
understand the concept.

The image of being a child's teacher doesn't help parents understand
how to unschool. We need different images, different ways of seeing
how children learn.

And that's what people here help others get: we present images, new
ways of thinking. But the task of actually learning happens inside of
the reader. Some may pull the sense of unschooling from the first few
posts they read and *get* unschooling. For others it may take many
many posts to slowly form a new image that they really deeply
understand. For others, it may take the words of a particular person.
But none of us here can teach anyone how to unschool. All we can do
is present words that make sense to us. The readers have to do the
work of making their own sense out of it, eg, learn.


Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Homeschlfor2@...

My children live life to learn.

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe they need to learn to live life.


Wow this is huge to me im not sure why this jumps out at me but
seeing
these 2 sentences like this is just........... Would it be wrong to
paste
these into my blog and try to explain why this jumps at me?

-=-=-=-

You're free to use anything.

How would I know anyway? <g>

~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
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