The terror of not pushing
Steve Cronje
Hello everyone
I think I need help. Perhaps there is someone here who has had a similar
experience, and has support or advice to offer. I apologize in advance for
this long post.
This is our second year schooling our nearly 11-year old daughter at home.
Our decision to homeschool, although not made lightly, did not have the
benefit of years of contemplation, but was made over the course of 6
months or so while trying to work within the public system to help her,
and failing. It dawned on us that homeschooling might be helpful.
( Anyone who is interested can read more here:
http://www.cronje.ca/article/20 )
Dd's mother and I are divorced. Stepmom and I provide most of the care,
although there is a shared custody order in place. That, as well as the
fact that dd's biological mother was not at all supportive of our decision
steered us toward a school-at-home approach. Our first year of
homeschooling went very well, we thought ( see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/56). Even biomom agreed that dd obviously
enjoyed this form of school, and agreed, still very reluctantly, to let dd
homeschool again this year.
In the meanwhile, we have been reading and learning. We have become
convinced that an unschooling approach might work better with dd. Over
time we discussed the subject, and were pleasantly surprised by dd's
insight and eagerness to try things out. ( For details, see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/59/#usstart and
http://www.cronje.ca/article/69 )
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to follow her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would do
our best to support her in following these interests.
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive native
american camp.
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd is in
fact learning.
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her. I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year, be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers? How do we increase
her exposure without pushing, if she is not interested in much else?
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
I appreciate any feedback.
BigNut
http://cronje.ca
I think I need help. Perhaps there is someone here who has had a similar
experience, and has support or advice to offer. I apologize in advance for
this long post.
This is our second year schooling our nearly 11-year old daughter at home.
Our decision to homeschool, although not made lightly, did not have the
benefit of years of contemplation, but was made over the course of 6
months or so while trying to work within the public system to help her,
and failing. It dawned on us that homeschooling might be helpful.
( Anyone who is interested can read more here:
http://www.cronje.ca/article/20 )
Dd's mother and I are divorced. Stepmom and I provide most of the care,
although there is a shared custody order in place. That, as well as the
fact that dd's biological mother was not at all supportive of our decision
steered us toward a school-at-home approach. Our first year of
homeschooling went very well, we thought ( see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/56). Even biomom agreed that dd obviously
enjoyed this form of school, and agreed, still very reluctantly, to let dd
homeschool again this year.
In the meanwhile, we have been reading and learning. We have become
convinced that an unschooling approach might work better with dd. Over
time we discussed the subject, and were pleasantly surprised by dd's
insight and eagerness to try things out. ( For details, see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/59/#usstart and
http://www.cronje.ca/article/69 )
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to follow her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would do
our best to support her in following these interests.
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive native
american camp.
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd is in
fact learning.
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her. I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year, be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers? How do we increase
her exposure without pushing, if she is not interested in much else?
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
I appreciate any feedback.
BigNut
http://cronje.ca
Lisa Embleton
I'm a newbie/lurker here trying to figure it all out too, so I'll be interested to read the replies on your post. :o)
I enjoyed your articles on your blog and just wanted to say that I thought your dd's key chains were awesome!! She did a super job!
Lisa :o)
NB, Canada
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I enjoyed your articles on your blog and just wanted to say that I thought your dd's key chains were awesome!! She did a super job!
Lisa :o)
NB, Canada
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 2, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Steve Cronje wrote:
she does something that could be described in educational terms.
describe what she's doing in educational terms if you need to do that
for the school system. (Or want to for your ex-wife.)
*Her* appropriate progress should be to heal.
But the more you pressure your daughter to do something that
demonstrates progress, the more you will hold her back from
recovering. It would be like walking on a broken leg instead of
putting it in a cast.
But you can be honest with her and tell her that it's a possibility
her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
going on. Ask your daughter to help you by going places that will
ease her mother's fears. Tell her she doesn't have to learn anything.
She doesn't have to do anything in any particular way. You can go to
the science museum just for lunch. :-) You can go to see MacHomer or
Reduced Shakespeare Company and call it classical literature analysis.
*Everything* is educational. Even tractor pulls. Just because the
stuff that looks educational has been tainted for her for a while,
there's still a whole world of stuff to learn from. *You* need to
trust it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> One of myBe proactive. Keep a file on your desktop and write in it every time
> fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that
> dd is in
> fact learning.
she does something that could be described in educational terms.
> How will dd,She can't and won't and shouldn't for now. It's *your* job to
> after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last
> year, be
> able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that
> her
> horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers?
describe what she's doing in educational terms if you need to do that
for the school system. (Or want to for your ex-wife.)
*Her* appropriate progress should be to heal.
But the more you pressure your daughter to do something that
demonstrates progress, the more you will hold her back from
recovering. It would be like walking on a broken leg instead of
putting it in a cast.
But you can be honest with her and tell her that it's a possibility
her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
going on. Ask your daughter to help you by going places that will
ease her mother's fears. Tell her she doesn't have to learn anything.
She doesn't have to do anything in any particular way. You can go to
the science museum just for lunch. :-) You can go to see MacHomer or
Reduced Shakespeare Company and call it classical literature analysis.
> How do we increaseDo things that are fun, things you'd do over the summer or on vacation.
> her exposure without pushing, if she is not interested in much else?
*Everything* is educational. Even tractor pulls. Just because the
stuff that looks educational has been tainted for her for a while,
there's still a whole world of stuff to learn from. *You* need to
trust it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"But you can be honest with her and tell her that it's a possibility
her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
going on."
This is really important.
You really can't relax the same way most of us can, without the
support of the ex. Do whatever it takes to help your child have her
freedom, while keeping the ex happy because the courts will usually
not support homeschooling of any kind when the other parent disagrees.
BUT, I think a lot of the key here, is parents accepting their own
schooling issues and not making it the kids problem!:)
We all have those school voices in our heads at some point, how much
of that we choose to ignore, largely decides how well unschooling
blossoms in our homes.
Have you read "Real Lives" or "The Teenage Liberation Handbook"? Both
are by Grace Lewellyn and I recommend you AND your dd read one or both
of these books. Very freeing.
If you push, you run the risk of damaging her trust in you.
Unschooling is all about relationships, trust and respect. Hinge your
decisions on that and everything else will fall into place.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
going on."
This is really important.
You really can't relax the same way most of us can, without the
support of the ex. Do whatever it takes to help your child have her
freedom, while keeping the ex happy because the courts will usually
not support homeschooling of any kind when the other parent disagrees.
BUT, I think a lot of the key here, is parents accepting their own
schooling issues and not making it the kids problem!:)
We all have those school voices in our heads at some point, how much
of that we choose to ignore, largely decides how well unschooling
blossoms in our homes.
Have you read "Real Lives" or "The Teenage Liberation Handbook"? Both
are by Grace Lewellyn and I recommend you AND your dd read one or both
of these books. Very freeing.
If you push, you run the risk of damaging her trust in you.
Unschooling is all about relationships, trust and respect. Hinge your
decisions on that and everything else will fall into place.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Steve Cronje
Hello Joyce!
On October 3, 2006 02:31, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
> Be proactive. Keep a file on your desktop and write in it every time
> she does something that could be described in educational terms.
Yes, I must say this is a very helpful thing. For MY anxiety!! Just looking
back, and seeing what we have done, while we do "nothing" ;-), is very
calming, and amazing.
> It's *your* job to
> describe what she's doing in educational terms if you need to do that
Yes, that was *very* helpful to me.
> *Her* appropriate progress should be to heal.
Yes. And even though one cannot measure that in any way that would make
sense to someone wishing to disagree, I can sense how she is healing.
> But the more you pressure your daughter to do something that
> demonstrates progress, the more you will hold her back from
> recovering. It would be like walking on a broken leg instead of
> putting it in a cast.
I think I get that, at some or other level. It is just that if I had *only
my* druthers, I would be a lot less jumpy. It is this feeling of possible
being examined IN THE FUTURE, about the actions I am taking right now,
that is driving me nuts. I FEEL AND KNOW how this is good for her.
> But you can be honest with her and tell her that it's a possibility
> her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
> going on. Ask your daughter to help you
Wow. I never thought of engaging her assistance in this way. Thank you!
> *Everything* is educational. Even tractor pulls. Just because the
> stuff that looks educational has been tainted for her for a while,
> there's still a whole world of stuff to learn from. *You* need to
> trust it.
And I do. Or at least, I am starting to. I need to be unschooled as much,
if not more, than she does.
Thank you for your helpful comments
Steve
--
Steve Cronjé
http://cronje.ca
[email protected]
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
-----Original Message-----
From: steve@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] The terror of not pushing
Hello everyone
I think I need help. Perhaps there is someone here who has had a
similar
experience, and has support or advice to offer. I apologize in advance
for
this long post.
This is our second year schooling our nearly 11-year old daughter at
home.
Our decision to homeschool, although not made lightly, did not have
the
benefit of years of contemplation, but was made over the course of 6
months or so while trying to work within the public system to help
her,
and failing. It dawned on us that homeschooling might be helpful.
( Anyone who is interested can read more here:
http://www.cronje.ca/article/20 )
Dd's mother and I are divorced. Stepmom and I provide most of the
care,
although there is a shared custody order in place. That, as well as
the
fact that dd's biological mother was not at all supportive of our
decision
steered us toward a school-at-home approach. Our first year of
homeschooling went very well, we thought ( see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/56). Even biomom agreed that dd obviously
enjoyed this form of school, and agreed, still very reluctantly, to
let dd
homeschool again this year.
In the meanwhile, we have been reading and learning. We have become
convinced that an unschooling approach might work better with dd. Over
time we discussed the subject, and were pleasantly surprised by dd's
insight and eagerness to try things out. ( For details, see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/59/#usstart and
http://www.cronje.ca/article/69 )
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We
follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to
follow her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when
one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would
do
our best to support her in following these interests.
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but
never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive
native
american camp.
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally
doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school
is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd
is in
fact learning.
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her. I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year,
be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that
her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers? How do we
increase
her exposure without pushing, if she is not interested in much else?
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
I appreciate any feedback.
BigNut
http://cronje.ca
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
-----Original Message-----
From: steve@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] The terror of not pushing
Hello everyone
I think I need help. Perhaps there is someone here who has had a
similar
experience, and has support or advice to offer. I apologize in advance
for
this long post.
This is our second year schooling our nearly 11-year old daughter at
home.
Our decision to homeschool, although not made lightly, did not have
the
benefit of years of contemplation, but was made over the course of 6
months or so while trying to work within the public system to help
her,
and failing. It dawned on us that homeschooling might be helpful.
( Anyone who is interested can read more here:
http://www.cronje.ca/article/20 )
Dd's mother and I are divorced. Stepmom and I provide most of the
care,
although there is a shared custody order in place. That, as well as
the
fact that dd's biological mother was not at all supportive of our
decision
steered us toward a school-at-home approach. Our first year of
homeschooling went very well, we thought ( see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/56). Even biomom agreed that dd obviously
enjoyed this form of school, and agreed, still very reluctantly, to
let dd
homeschool again this year.
In the meanwhile, we have been reading and learning. We have become
convinced that an unschooling approach might work better with dd. Over
time we discussed the subject, and were pleasantly surprised by dd's
insight and eagerness to try things out. ( For details, see
http://www.cronje.ca/article/59/#usstart and
http://www.cronje.ca/article/69 )
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We
follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to
follow her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when
one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would
do
our best to support her in following these interests.
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but
never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive
native
american camp.
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally
doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school
is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd
is in
fact learning.
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her. I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year,
be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that
her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers? How do we
increase
her exposure without pushing, if she is not interested in much else?
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
I appreciate any feedback.
BigNut
http://cronje.ca
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Steve Cronje
Hello Ren
On October 3, 2006 07:03, Ren Allen wrote:
> "But you can be honest with her and tell her that it's a possibility
> her mother will put her in school unless she feels there's learning
> going on."
>
> This is really important.
Yes. See my response to Joyce.
> You really can't relax the same way most of us can, without the
> support of the ex. Do whatever it takes to help your child have her
> freedom, while keeping the ex happy because the courts will usually
> not support homeschooling of any kind when the other parent disagrees.
OK, can we talk about that? In more general terms. The thought I have is
something like:
If we are not radically unschooling (is that the correct term), but
"sliding into unschooling" (perhaps you have a better way of phrasing
this) - is there a balance point, one where we are doing little or no
good if we are not doing only unschooling?
What I mean is that I understand that a rigid, formal course could be
unschooling if someone is interested in, and wishes to do that. But what
if I push dd to do something, just for the sake of the record?
I do see that enlisting her help in fulfilling this, that it would
mitigate, to some, perhaps a large extent, the damage of pushing, but does
my question make sense?
> BUT, I think a lot of the key here, is parents accepting their own
> schooling issues and not making it the kids problem!:)
Yes, I can accept that. I need to unschool too. (fading howling in the
distance) :-)
>
> Have you read "Real Lives" or "The Teenage Liberation Handbook"? Both
> are by Grace Lewellyn and I recommend you AND your dd read one or both
> of these books. Very freeing.
Yes, I mentioned it in the post. :-)
I have tried to interest dd in the book (TLH), but I think she is not ready
for it, as she has shown little inclination. I often talk to dw about it,
and she hears some of those conversations, so there is some exposure.
I have noticed that dd will often dive into something with interest a long
time AFTER I have brought it up. So, TLH lies around the house, ready to
be picked up! I have also sent a copy to her favourite older cousin (16),
so that could resonate down the road too.
> If you push, you run the risk of damaging her trust in you.
> Unschooling is all about relationships, trust and respect. Hinge your
> decisions on that and everything else will fall into place.
Yes, and Joyce helped me see how I could explain some of the push, or the
reason behind it, and retain the respect and trust.
Thank you for your comments.
Steve
--
Steve Cronjé
http://cronje.ca
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: steve@...
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We
follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
-=-=-=-
No such thing as a "blended unschooing approach." Either you believe
that learning happens naturally or you don't. Not trusting that math
and grammar are a part of life doesn't fall under unschooling. My
children learn BOTH math and grammar as a natural part of living.
-=-=-=-=-
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to follow
her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when
one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would
do
our best to support her in following these interests.
-=-=-=-
Except for math and grammar?
-=-=-=-=-
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
-=-==-
Cool.
-=-=-=--
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, but keep in mind that learning doesn't *have* to look like the
library or reading. Sometimes it *does*, but more often it does not.
-=-=-=-=-
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but
never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive native
american camp.
-=-=-=-=-
It's easier to do things youre interested in if you don't have the
requirements of school or school-at-home. You can *be* more creative.
But please don't put more value on the model of the camp because it
appears more school-like. That's a big mistake in unschooling. Learning
can happen in so many things---some of them may look like Ed, Edd, and
Eddy!
In unschooling, EVERYthing is educational! It helps if parents see the
value in ALL learning!
-=-=-=-==-
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd is
in
fact learning.
-=-=-=
But that's your job. To *see* the evidence of learning. in some states,
it's your job to *document* that!
AT first just write down all she does, even if it's watching the
Sponge-Bob Square Pants marathon for two days straight! Then *YOU* go
back and discover the educational value of SpongeBob. you might be
surprised! <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-=-
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her.
-=-=-=-=-
Then change that. Do more. Go more. Be more.
-=-=-==-
I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year,
be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers?
-=-==-=-
Well, what exactly do the schools expect of an 11 year old? Not too
damned much!
First she needs to heal from her school experience. Then she needs to
heal from her school-at-home experience.
THEN she can start looking ahead to more interesting things.
Humans are born motivated. Humans mak "appropriate
progress...ummm...when they're ready!
As far as her "horizons" go---if they aren't broad enough, the GO
somewhere new. DO something different. Be her facilitator. Show her new
things. Let her see *YOU* try new things. Be a model!
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do we increase her exposure without pushing, if she is not
interested in much else?
-=-=-=-
She has to heal first. Then she'll start pushing *you* much further
than you will ever feel comfortable with.
Patience. Trust.
-=-=-=-=-
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
-=-=-=-
And you're choosing to have a time limit because....?
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: steve@...
So, this year, we have started a blended unschooling approach. We
follow a
program by John Mighton for math, and plan to have some structured
tutoring around basic grammar concepts.
-=-=-=-
No such thing as a "blended unschooing approach." Either you believe
that learning happens naturally or you don't. Not trusting that math
and grammar are a part of life doesn't fall under unschooling. My
children learn BOTH math and grammar as a natural part of living.
-=-=-=-=-
For the rest, however, we have told dd that we will allow her to follow
her
interest. We have told her that we believe that one learns best when
one
is learning what one is interested in. We have told her that we would
do
our best to support her in following these interests.
-=-=-=-
Except for math and grammar?
-=-=-=-=-
What has happened so far that is good:
1. She is happier, even though we thought she was happy before.
-=-==-
Cool.
-=-=-=--
2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of books
related to ancient civilizations.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, but keep in mind that learning doesn't *have* to look like the
library or reading. Sometimes it *does*, but more often it does not.
-=-=-=-=-
3. She has become more creative - e.g., she has independently started
drawing comic art, something she has expressed an interest in, but
never
followed up on before. She has also built a model of a primitive native
american camp.
-=-=-=-=-
It's easier to do things youre interested in if you don't have the
requirements of school or school-at-home. You can *be* more creative.
But please don't put more value on the model of the camp because it
appears more school-like. That's a big mistake in unschooling. Learning
can happen in so many things---some of them may look like Ed, Edd, and
Eddy!
In unschooling, EVERYthing is educational! It helps if parents see the
value in ALL learning!
-=-=-=-==-
Despite these good things, I am anxious, and occasionally doubt-ridden.
The possibility of biomom insisting that she return to public school is
what I find most at odds with what we are trying to achieve. One of my
fears is that we will not have enough "evidence" to show her that dd is
in
fact learning.
-=-=-=
But that's your job. To *see* the evidence of learning. in some states,
it's your job to *document* that!
AT first just write down all she does, even if it's watching the
Sponge-Bob Square Pants marathon for two days straight! Then *YOU* go
back and discover the educational value of SpongeBob. you might be
surprised! <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-=-
Another is the fear that we are not providing an adequately nourishing
environment for her.
-=-=-=-=-
Then change that. Do more. Go more. Be more.
-=-=-==-
I have been reading Grace Llewellyn's wonderful
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", but that is for teenagers. How will dd,
after 4 years in the public system, despite the progress of last year,
be
able to motivate herself to make "appropriate progress", given that her
horizons are still narrower than those of teenagers?
-=-==-=-
Well, what exactly do the schools expect of an 11 year old? Not too
damned much!
First she needs to heal from her school experience. Then she needs to
heal from her school-at-home experience.
THEN she can start looking ahead to more interesting things.
Humans are born motivated. Humans mak "appropriate
progress...ummm...when they're ready!
As far as her "horizons" go---if they aren't broad enough, the GO
somewhere new. DO something different. Be her facilitator. Show her new
things. Let her see *YOU* try new things. Be a model!
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do we increase her exposure without pushing, if she is not
interested in much else?
-=-=-=-
She has to heal first. Then she'll start pushing *you* much further
than you will ever feel comfortable with.
Patience. Trust.
-=-=-=-=-
Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turning
inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
-=-=-=-
And you're choosing to have a time limit because....?
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
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Steve Cronje
On October 3, 2006 13:01, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
So this year we are doing things that can be measured to the satisfaction
of educators and lawyers, but we are also doing many things that cannot.
formal way in the past that she had enjoyed, such as math, and did she
think it would be OK if we continued? She agreed.
practice (mine). She drew cartoons while we played. On the way back we had
a good discussion about how some of the decisions we make in life are very
important, and others not so much, and how to tell the difference between
them. Where did that come from? Must be my squeaky sax playing!
meaning.
legal challenge, with the issue being "the best interest of the child".
need to SHOW someone who is might not be understanding and gung-ho how
good this is. I am as convinced as I can be, otherwise I would not be
following this path.
Thank you for the comments.
Steve, still laughing about the expectations of ps quote above
--
Steve Cronjé
http://cronje.ca
> No such thing as a "blended unschooing approach." Either you believeYes, perhaps I said that poorly. It might have been more helpful if I said:
> that learning happens naturally or you don't. Not trusting that math
> and grammar are a part of life doesn't fall under unschooling. My
> children learn BOTH math and grammar as a natural part of living.
So this year we are doing things that can be measured to the satisfaction
of educators and lawyers, but we are also doing many things that cannot.
>We have told her that we wouldWe explained to her that there were some things that we had done in a
> do
> our best to support her in following these interests.
>
> Except for math and grammar?
formal way in the past that she had enjoyed, such as math, and did she
think it would be OK if we continued? She agreed.
> 2. She asked to go to the library and came back with a stack of booksI am learning that, I truly am. Last night we drove for 40" to band
> related to ancient civilizations.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Yes, but keep in mind that learning doesn't *have* to look like the
> library or reading. Sometimes it *does*, but more often it does not.
practice (mine). She drew cartoons while we played. On the way back we had
a good discussion about how some of the decisions we make in life are very
important, and others not so much, and how to tell the difference between
them. Where did that come from? Must be my squeaky sax playing!
> But please don't put more value on the model of the camp because itI don't think I was. This is a big change for her, so that is what I was
> appears more school-like. That's a big mistake in unschooling.
meaning.
> But that's your job. To *see* the evidence of learning. in some states,I know I can, am, and will do that. What is not so straighforward is a
> it's your job to *document* that!
legal challenge, with the issue being "the best interest of the child".
> AT first just write down all she does, even if it's watching theBTDT. And yes, I continue to be surprised!
> Sponge-Bob Square Pants marathon for two days straight! Then *YOU* go
> back and discover the educational value of SpongeBob. you might be
> surprised! <bwg>
> Well, what exactly do the schools expect of an 11 year old? Not too:-) You are too much. Funneeeeee!
> damned much!
> Are we attempting the impossible? I feel as though my head is turningBecause of the *external forces* I have explained about. Sooner or later I
> inside out, attempting to join two opposites with a time limit.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> And you're choosing to have a time limit because....?
need to SHOW someone who is might not be understanding and gung-ho how
good this is. I am as convinced as I can be, otherwise I would not be
following this path.
Thank you for the comments.
Steve, still laughing about the expectations of ps quote above
--
Steve Cronjé
http://cronje.ca
Ren Allen
"What I mean is that I understand that a rigid, formal course could be
unschooling if someone is interested in, and wishes to do that. But what
if I push dd to do something, just for the sake of the record?"
I would do everything I could to preserve the relationship, yet be
very open and honest about what will pacify Mom without making her the
enemy. Maybe just explain how hard it is for most people to understand
natural learning (I'm sure you can relate) and that it would really
look better if you had good documentation.
You can do the documentation without a bunch of formal stuff....though
if my choices were formal academics and keeping my child (and keeping
my child free from school) OR losing the right to homeschool because I
didn't document enough, then I'd keep some formal stuff and try to
make it as fun and wonderful as possible. Those may not be your only
two choices.:)
I've been very close to someone whose custody battle has been about as
ugly as it can get. Her son no longer has the right to homeschool. I
think some formal academics are better than all the shit they've had
to endure....(she WAS doing a more formal approach but still lost the
right). If the other parent takes it to court, it does not bode well
for homeschooling of any kind, whether it's gone fabulous in their
eyes or not. Parents really need to be on board at SOME level for it
to stay secure.
Anyhoo, I think your dd is old enough to understand all the issues and
it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on natural learning. Keep
on reading and trusting her. If you can document with lotsa photos it
might keep Mum pacified enough that you can head into unschooling full
on. I hope it works out.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
unschooling if someone is interested in, and wishes to do that. But what
if I push dd to do something, just for the sake of the record?"
I would do everything I could to preserve the relationship, yet be
very open and honest about what will pacify Mom without making her the
enemy. Maybe just explain how hard it is for most people to understand
natural learning (I'm sure you can relate) and that it would really
look better if you had good documentation.
You can do the documentation without a bunch of formal stuff....though
if my choices were formal academics and keeping my child (and keeping
my child free from school) OR losing the right to homeschool because I
didn't document enough, then I'd keep some formal stuff and try to
make it as fun and wonderful as possible. Those may not be your only
two choices.:)
I've been very close to someone whose custody battle has been about as
ugly as it can get. Her son no longer has the right to homeschool. I
think some formal academics are better than all the shit they've had
to endure....(she WAS doing a more formal approach but still lost the
right). If the other parent takes it to court, it does not bode well
for homeschooling of any kind, whether it's gone fabulous in their
eyes or not. Parents really need to be on board at SOME level for it
to stay secure.
Anyhoo, I think your dd is old enough to understand all the issues and
it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on natural learning. Keep
on reading and trusting her. If you can document with lotsa photos it
might keep Mum pacified enough that you can head into unschooling full
on. I hope it works out.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com