I should always get what I want
Solé
Dear List,
hmpf... sometimes it's hard to choose a "subject".
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
It is not that I'm fearing this – it's just that I don't know the
answer. Many things in unschooling or tcs just feel "right" to me,
but I can't really explain. It just hits my logic nerv, I "know" it's
right but I'm still curious what you say.
And then I have another question – is there a difference between
"unschooling" and "tcs"?
Greetings
Johanna
hmpf... sometimes it's hard to choose a "subject".
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
It is not that I'm fearing this – it's just that I don't know the
answer. Many things in unschooling or tcs just feel "right" to me,
but I can't really explain. It just hits my logic nerv, I "know" it's
right but I'm still curious what you say.
And then I have another question – is there a difference between
"unschooling" and "tcs"?
Greetings
Johanna
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: solelokuai@...
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
-=-=-=--=
I figure mine *will* always get what they want. What's the opposite of
that? *Never* getting what you want? Getting *nothing* you want? YUCK!
By modelling how I get what I want and by brainstorming ways that my
boys get what they want/need, I think they'll be able to make their own
ways.
I think we *should* all get what we need---and all work to get what we
want. My boys see me do both of those things ---for me, for their dad,
and for them. They don't see things magically appear---nor do they
expect that (after a certain age, I should probably say! <g>) because
they see the effort we put into their/our wants & needs. They
see/experience natural limitations (car died, need to put off
something---what?--and how to reorganize to get that thing back in the
queue?) and natural consequences.
If one is not getting what he wants/needs at a job (or in life), he
probably needs to look for a new job that gives him what he needs OR
reorganize to see where he *can* get that thing or where he make
changes to fit it in. THAT's what we're modelling. *HOW* to get what we
want.
An example:
I know that *I* can get what I want. It may not be right away---or it
might. I *really* want to move to the mountains of VA---have a little
farm, be more secluded. Cameron's ready to move with me! <g> But
Duncan, at ten, still needs to be here. Ben's current job came with a
five year commitment---possibly eight years! His job is too sweet right
now to leave it. It's allowing us to do many other things (NOT make the
move right now though!). We *could* go ahead and buy the land, but that
would put several brakes on here. So I'm giving up my *immediate* dream
for a while so that we can fulfill others here. I'm OK with that. I
think the boys would all jump at giving me my farm if I really needed
to put that dream first. I know they would. But there are so many other
things that we, as a family, find more important, so I'm putting mine
off. I'll get my farm, just a little later.
I'm making do and fulfilling parts of the dream by gardening and
keeping bees and researching and eventually getting chickens---small
steps. <g>
They see each of us give a little to make it work for all of us. They
also see that the more we give, the more we get in other ways.
I *want* my boys to always get what they want. Me too! Sometimes we
just need to devise creative ways to get there! And sometimes we need
help. By helping my boys now, I hope they'll help themselves, help
others, and even help me! <g>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: solelokuai@...
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
-=-=-=--=
I figure mine *will* always get what they want. What's the opposite of
that? *Never* getting what you want? Getting *nothing* you want? YUCK!
By modelling how I get what I want and by brainstorming ways that my
boys get what they want/need, I think they'll be able to make their own
ways.
I think we *should* all get what we need---and all work to get what we
want. My boys see me do both of those things ---for me, for their dad,
and for them. They don't see things magically appear---nor do they
expect that (after a certain age, I should probably say! <g>) because
they see the effort we put into their/our wants & needs. They
see/experience natural limitations (car died, need to put off
something---what?--and how to reorganize to get that thing back in the
queue?) and natural consequences.
If one is not getting what he wants/needs at a job (or in life), he
probably needs to look for a new job that gives him what he needs OR
reorganize to see where he *can* get that thing or where he make
changes to fit it in. THAT's what we're modelling. *HOW* to get what we
want.
An example:
I know that *I* can get what I want. It may not be right away---or it
might. I *really* want to move to the mountains of VA---have a little
farm, be more secluded. Cameron's ready to move with me! <g> But
Duncan, at ten, still needs to be here. Ben's current job came with a
five year commitment---possibly eight years! His job is too sweet right
now to leave it. It's allowing us to do many other things (NOT make the
move right now though!). We *could* go ahead and buy the land, but that
would put several brakes on here. So I'm giving up my *immediate* dream
for a while so that we can fulfill others here. I'm OK with that. I
think the boys would all jump at giving me my farm if I really needed
to put that dream first. I know they would. But there are so many other
things that we, as a family, find more important, so I'm putting mine
off. I'll get my farm, just a little later.
I'm making do and fulfilling parts of the dream by gardening and
keeping bees and researching and eventually getting chickens---small
steps. <g>
They see each of us give a little to make it work for all of us. They
also see that the more we give, the more we get in other ways.
I *want* my boys to always get what they want. Me too! Sometimes we
just need to devise creative ways to get there! And sometimes we need
help. By helping my boys now, I hope they'll help themselves, help
others, and even help me! <g>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Vickisue Gray
What a great response! I couldn't have said it better.
Vicki
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat your bees!
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: solelokuai@...
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want â also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
-=-=-=--=
I figure mine *will* always get what they want. What's the opposite of
that? *Never* getting what you want? Getting *nothing* you want? YUCK!
By modelling how I get what I want and by brainstorming ways that my
boys get what they want/need, I think they'll be able to make their own
ways.
I think we *should* all get what we need---and all work to get what we
want. My boys see me do both of those things ---for me, for their dad,
and for them. They don't see things magically appear---nor do they
expect that (after a certain age, I should probably say! <g>) because
they see the effort we put into their/our wants & needs. They
see/experience natural limitations (car died, need to put off
something---what?--and how to reorganize to get that thing back in the
queue?) and natural consequences.
If one is not getting what he wants/needs at a job (or in life), he
probably needs to look for a new job that gives him what he needs OR
reorganize to see where he *can* get that thing or where he make
changes to fit it in. THAT's what we're modelling. *HOW* to get what we
want.
An example:
I know that *I* can get what I want. It may not be right away---or it
might. I *really* want to move to the mountains of VA---have a little
farm, be more secluded. Cameron's ready to move with me! <g> But
Duncan, at ten, still needs to be here. Ben's current job came with a
five year commitment---possibly eight years! His job is too sweet right
now to leave it. It's allowing us to do many other things (NOT make the
move right now though!). We *could* go ahead and buy the land, but that
would put several brakes on here. So I'm giving up my *immediate* dream
for a while so that we can fulfill others here. I'm OK with that. I
think the boys would all jump at giving me my farm if I really needed
to put that dream first. I know they would. But there are so many other
things that we, as a family, find more important, so I'm putting mine
off. I'll get my farm, just a little later.
I'm making do and fulfilling parts of the dream by gardening and
keeping bees and researching and eventually getting chickens---small
steps. <g>
They see each of us give a little to make it work for all of us. They
also see that the more we give, the more we get in other ways.
I *want* my boys to always get what they want. Me too! Sometimes we
just need to devise creative ways to get there! And sometimes we need
help. By helping my boys now, I hope they'll help themselves, help
others, and even help me! <g>
~Kelly
__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vicki
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat your bees!
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: solelokuai@...
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want â also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?
-=-=-=--=
I figure mine *will* always get what they want. What's the opposite of
that? *Never* getting what you want? Getting *nothing* you want? YUCK!
By modelling how I get what I want and by brainstorming ways that my
boys get what they want/need, I think they'll be able to make their own
ways.
I think we *should* all get what we need---and all work to get what we
want. My boys see me do both of those things ---for me, for their dad,
and for them. They don't see things magically appear---nor do they
expect that (after a certain age, I should probably say! <g>) because
they see the effort we put into their/our wants & needs. They
see/experience natural limitations (car died, need to put off
something---what?--and how to reorganize to get that thing back in the
queue?) and natural consequences.
If one is not getting what he wants/needs at a job (or in life), he
probably needs to look for a new job that gives him what he needs OR
reorganize to see where he *can* get that thing or where he make
changes to fit it in. THAT's what we're modelling. *HOW* to get what we
want.
An example:
I know that *I* can get what I want. It may not be right away---or it
might. I *really* want to move to the mountains of VA---have a little
farm, be more secluded. Cameron's ready to move with me! <g> But
Duncan, at ten, still needs to be here. Ben's current job came with a
five year commitment---possibly eight years! His job is too sweet right
now to leave it. It's allowing us to do many other things (NOT make the
move right now though!). We *could* go ahead and buy the land, but that
would put several brakes on here. So I'm giving up my *immediate* dream
for a while so that we can fulfill others here. I'm OK with that. I
think the boys would all jump at giving me my farm if I really needed
to put that dream first. I know they would. But there are so many other
things that we, as a family, find more important, so I'm putting mine
off. I'll get my farm, just a little later.
I'm making do and fulfilling parts of the dream by gardening and
keeping bees and researching and eventually getting chickens---small
steps. <g>
They see each of us give a little to make it work for all of us. They
also see that the more we give, the more we get in other ways.
I *want* my boys to always get what they want. Me too! Sometimes we
just need to devise creative ways to get there! And sometimes we need
help. By helping my boys now, I hope they'll help themselves, help
others, and even help me! <g>
~Kelly
__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: vickisue_gray@...
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat
your bees!
-=-=-
I'm learning that *EVERYTHING* eats my bees! <g>
I enjoy watching the anole lizards and toads which park their butts
near and on he hive and lie in wait for tasty bees! Those little
tongues are SOO fast! <g>
We're looking at several breeds of hens---but no guineas here!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: vickisue_gray@...
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat
your bees!
-=-=-
I'm learning that *EVERYTHING* eats my bees! <g>
I enjoy watching the anole lizards and toads which park their butts
near and on he hive and lie in wait for tasty bees! Those little
tongues are SOO fast! <g>
We're looking at several breeds of hens---but no guineas here!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Vickisue Gray
Here is my favorite chicken research site:
http://www.feathersite.com/
We have raised lots of chickens, turkeys, ducks, and guinea's...our neighbors have peafowl, too, which is why I don't.
The all time favorites here are Silkies, Millie Fleurs, and Araucanas, Ameraucanas the Easter Egg Chickens as they lay pastel colored eggs. Rhode Island Reds for brown eggs. When my kids were little, I'd use the bantum eggs for toddler sized deviled eggs!
I used to sell the eggs and got twice as much for the blue/green ones then the brown ones.
Vicki
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: vickisue_gray@...
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat
your bees!
-=-=-
I'm learning that *EVERYTHING* eats my bees! <g>
I enjoy watching the anole lizards and toads which park their butts
near and on he hive and lie in wait for tasty bees! Those little
tongues are SOO fast! <g>
We're looking at several breeds of hens---but no guineas here!
~Kelly
__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.feathersite.com/
We have raised lots of chickens, turkeys, ducks, and guinea's...our neighbors have peafowl, too, which is why I don't.
The all time favorites here are Silkies, Millie Fleurs, and Araucanas, Ameraucanas the Easter Egg Chickens as they lay pastel colored eggs. Rhode Island Reds for brown eggs. When my kids were little, I'd use the bantum eggs for toddler sized deviled eggs!
I used to sell the eggs and got twice as much for the blue/green ones then the brown ones.
Vicki
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: vickisue_gray@...
P.S. Don't get guinea hens when you get your chickens, they'll eat
your bees!
-=-=-
I'm learning that *EVERYTHING* eats my bees! <g>
I enjoy watching the anole lizards and toads which park their butts
near and on he hive and lie in wait for tasty bees! Those little
tongues are SOO fast! <g>
We're looking at several breeds of hens---but no guineas here!
~Kelly
__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
Hello Johanna,
Why does "getting what you want" get a bad rap? Don't you want your
children to get what they want out of their lives? I know I do.
My 11 year old daughter wants a horse. She knows how to ride, and
how to take care of them but right now, we don't have to property or
the money to spend on one. I have NO DOUBT that she will have a
horse one day. She talks about how when she buys her first home, she
wants enough room for two horses, a mare and her colt. Until then,
she rides when she can and loves to visit the horse farms near where
we live. There are a lot of opportunities here for horse lovers and
I do all I can to help her with that passion.
What about you? Don't you want to get what you want out of your
life? We only get one shot at this life. I don't want to look back
at the end of mine and see a list of things I wanted but never
reached for.
Here's a quote I like...simple and to the point:
Deepak Chopra: "Life is a field of unlimited possibilities".
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], Solé <solelokuai@...>
wrote:
Why does "getting what you want" get a bad rap? Don't you want your
children to get what they want out of their lives? I know I do.
My 11 year old daughter wants a horse. She knows how to ride, and
how to take care of them but right now, we don't have to property or
the money to spend on one. I have NO DOUBT that she will have a
horse one day. She talks about how when she buys her first home, she
wants enough room for two horses, a mare and her colt. Until then,
she rides when she can and loves to visit the horse farms near where
we live. There are a lot of opportunities here for horse lovers and
I do all I can to help her with that passion.
What about you? Don't you want to get what you want out of your
life? We only get one shot at this life. I don't want to look back
at the end of mine and see a list of things I wanted but never
reached for.
Here's a quote I like...simple and to the point:
Deepak Chopra: "Life is a field of unlimited possibilities".
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], Solé <solelokuai@...>
wrote:
>their
> Dear List,
>
> hmpf... sometimes it's hard to choose a "subject".
>
> I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that
> children, when older, might think that because their parentsalways
> helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get whatthey
> want also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or havea
> job or whatever). Why?me,
>
> It is not that I'm fearing this it's just that I don't know the
> answer. Many things in unschooling or tcs just feel "right" to
> but I can't really explain. It just hits my logic nerv, I "know"it's
> right but I'm still curious what you say.
>
> And then I have another question is there a difference between
> "unschooling" and "tcs"?
>
> Greetings
> Johanna
>
Angela S.
<My 11 year old daughter wants a horse. She knows how to ride, and
how to take care of them but right now, we don't have to property or
the money to spend on one.>
You sound like me a couple years ago. :-) Then I went to the unschooling
conference in Peabody, MA and participated in a workshop put on by Barbara
Sher, author of Wishcraft. In the workshop we had to state what our dreams
were and what stood between ourselves and our dreams and the other people in
the workshop helped brainstorm with us as to how we could make those dreams
come true.
What it made me face was that yes, money was partly the issue, but a bigger
part was the fear of the unknown for me. I came home excited about the idea
of making that dream come true. I let people know what our dream was and in
a very short time I was able to make that dream come true.
We started out working for board at the stable where my kids took lessons.
The girls cut back on lessons in order to have their own horse. Here we are
a short two years later and we now have two horses. This spring we had a
small barn and arena built and brought our horses home. We are living our
dream and it wasn�t as hard to make it come true as you would think.
My husband and I are still driving our paid off vehicles, at least for now.
(there�s a truck and trailer in our dream too) We have a bit more debt than
we previously did. But kids aren�t kids forever and its nice to be able to
make their childhood dreams come true while we still can.
Angela S.
HYPERLINK "mailto:game-enthusiast@..."game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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how to take care of them but right now, we don't have to property or
the money to spend on one.>
You sound like me a couple years ago. :-) Then I went to the unschooling
conference in Peabody, MA and participated in a workshop put on by Barbara
Sher, author of Wishcraft. In the workshop we had to state what our dreams
were and what stood between ourselves and our dreams and the other people in
the workshop helped brainstorm with us as to how we could make those dreams
come true.
What it made me face was that yes, money was partly the issue, but a bigger
part was the fear of the unknown for me. I came home excited about the idea
of making that dream come true. I let people know what our dream was and in
a very short time I was able to make that dream come true.
We started out working for board at the stable where my kids took lessons.
The girls cut back on lessons in order to have their own horse. Here we are
a short two years later and we now have two horses. This spring we had a
small barn and arena built and brought our horses home. We are living our
dream and it wasn�t as hard to make it come true as you would think.
My husband and I are still driving our paid off vehicles, at least for now.
(there�s a truck and trailer in our dream too) We have a bit more debt than
we previously did. But kids aren�t kids forever and its nice to be able to
make their childhood dreams come true while we still can.
Angela S.
HYPERLINK "mailto:game-enthusiast@..."game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date: 10/1/2006
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
Angela,
Yes, I'm familiar with Barbara Sher and have read Wishcraft. :-) I
highly recommend it.
If anyone is interested, here are some links to get you started:
http://www.wishcraft.com/
http://www.barbarasher.com/
My daughter is living her dream and reaching for her goal with our,
and other's help. It's amazing what comes into your life by putting
it out there. :-)
Some examples....
In the short time that she's been interested in horses, we've met
another homeschooling mother who was looking for an apprentice of
sorts. Shawna goes to her house once a week and helps her care for
her three horses. She cleans the stalls, feeds them, grooms them and
learns how to ride and jump.
This friend has taken Shawna to a seminar with Pat Parelli, who she
met and spoke to afterwards. He and his wife gave Shawna copied of
their dvd's and have e-mailed her to see how she is. This same
friend also took her to a horse sale and they watched race horses
being auctioned. Being at these two places gave Shawna the chance to
meet a lot of prominent "horse people" in our city. We live in
Ocala, Florida which is the "Horse Capitol of the World" and there
is no shortage of opportunites for horses to be part of her life
here. She's met and made friends with jockeys, professional riders
and trainers. She's well liked within the horse community here and
not being in school has enabled her to pursue opportunites she may
not have been able to. Horses are a big part of her life and she's
put herself out there and made a lot happen in a short time. I have
no doubt that she'll own a horse one day...probably several. :-)
<<<<but a bigger part was the fear of the unknown for me.>>>>
That's great that you realised that. :-) Some people go through
their whole life and never do.
My life wouldn't be what it is today if I had let fear stop me. I
would never have been able to move from the only home I knew in
New York City after living through September 11. I wouldn't have
been able to adopt three children through foster care if fear was a
factor. Fear could have easily stopped me from doing those life
changing things.
But they didn't. :-) And my life is better for it.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], "Angela S." <game-
enthusiast@...> wrote:
Yes, I'm familiar with Barbara Sher and have read Wishcraft. :-) I
highly recommend it.
If anyone is interested, here are some links to get you started:
http://www.wishcraft.com/
http://www.barbarasher.com/
My daughter is living her dream and reaching for her goal with our,
and other's help. It's amazing what comes into your life by putting
it out there. :-)
Some examples....
In the short time that she's been interested in horses, we've met
another homeschooling mother who was looking for an apprentice of
sorts. Shawna goes to her house once a week and helps her care for
her three horses. She cleans the stalls, feeds them, grooms them and
learns how to ride and jump.
This friend has taken Shawna to a seminar with Pat Parelli, who she
met and spoke to afterwards. He and his wife gave Shawna copied of
their dvd's and have e-mailed her to see how she is. This same
friend also took her to a horse sale and they watched race horses
being auctioned. Being at these two places gave Shawna the chance to
meet a lot of prominent "horse people" in our city. We live in
Ocala, Florida which is the "Horse Capitol of the World" and there
is no shortage of opportunites for horses to be part of her life
here. She's met and made friends with jockeys, professional riders
and trainers. She's well liked within the horse community here and
not being in school has enabled her to pursue opportunites she may
not have been able to. Horses are a big part of her life and she's
put herself out there and made a lot happen in a short time. I have
no doubt that she'll own a horse one day...probably several. :-)
<<<<but a bigger part was the fear of the unknown for me.>>>>
That's great that you realised that. :-) Some people go through
their whole life and never do.
My life wouldn't be what it is today if I had let fear stop me. I
would never have been able to move from the only home I knew in
New York City after living through September 11. I wouldn't have
been able to adopt three children through foster care if fear was a
factor. Fear could have easily stopped me from doing those life
changing things.
But they didn't. :-) And my life is better for it.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], "Angela S." <game-
enthusiast@...> wrote:
>or
>
>
> <My 11 year old daughter wants a horse. She knows how to ride, and
> how to take care of them but right now, we don't have to property
> the money to spend on one.>unschooling
>
>
>
> You sound like me a couple years ago. :-) Then I went to the
> conference in Peabody, MA and participated in a workshop put on byBarbara
> Sher, author of Wishcraft. In the workshop we had to state whatour dreams
> were and what stood between ourselves and our dreams and the otherpeople in
> the workshop helped brainstorm with us as to how we could makethose dreams
> come true.a bigger
>
>
>
> What it made me face was that yes, money was partly the issue, but
> part was the fear of the unknown for me. I came home excitedabout the idea
> of making that dream come true. I let people know what our dreamwas and in
> a very short time I was able to make that dream come true.lessons.
>
>
>
> We started out working for board at the stable where my kids took
> The girls cut back on lessons in order to have their own horse.Here we are
> a short two years later and we now have two horses. This springwe had a
> small barn and arena built and brought our horses home. We areliving our
> dream and it wasn't as hard to make it come true as you wouldthink.
>for now.
>
>
> My husband and I are still driving our paid off vehicles, at least
> (there's a truck and trailer in our dream too) We have a bit moredebt than
> we previously did. But kids aren't kids forever and its nice tobe able to
> make their childhood dreams come true while we still can.10/1/2006
>
>
>
> Angela S.
>
> HYPERLINK "mailto:game-enthusiast@..."game-enthusiast@...
>
> Life Is Good!
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date:
>10/1/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date:
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/2006 10:47:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?<<<<<
Who said that. LOL I do expect that I will get what I want. And I am
willing to work to get there. I think everyone should get what they want. I
also think it is important to remember that we are all human (at least most of
us,,,LOL) so we can change our minds about what we want. We have the
ability to make choices. Sometimes we are willing to do something we don't
necessarily want, to get what we want in the end. Like a job. Although if I really
didn't like a job I wouldn't stay. But if the end result of the job (money
maybe) was what I wanted, I would be willing (to some extent) to do something
I might not necessarily want to get there. Or maybe not. Maybe my need to
be doing something I totally enjoy would take precedence over the need for
money from this job. Many solutions.
In our house we live consensually. Which means that we all get what we
want. We work really hard at it. To make sure everyone's needs and wants are
met. When the boys have friends over and there are 4 or 5 kids here we work
even harder, but the goal is the same, that everyone's wants and needs are met
with mutually agreeable solutions. My boys have been living this way and
seeing it work so they know there is always a solution if they are willing to
work for it. Seeing it and living it they are able to take their experience
out into the world. So I see them working out solutions consensually with
friends on the playground etc. I believe that as they grow they will carry it
with them as a valuable tool.
OK I am busy with other stuff so only have a minute.
Take care,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that their
children, when older, might think that because their parents always
helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
job or whatever). Why?<<<<<
Who said that. LOL I do expect that I will get what I want. And I am
willing to work to get there. I think everyone should get what they want. I
also think it is important to remember that we are all human (at least most of
us,,,LOL) so we can change our minds about what we want. We have the
ability to make choices. Sometimes we are willing to do something we don't
necessarily want, to get what we want in the end. Like a job. Although if I really
didn't like a job I wouldn't stay. But if the end result of the job (money
maybe) was what I wanted, I would be willing (to some extent) to do something
I might not necessarily want to get there. Or maybe not. Maybe my need to
be doing something I totally enjoy would take precedence over the need for
money from this job. Many solutions.
In our house we live consensually. Which means that we all get what we
want. We work really hard at it. To make sure everyone's needs and wants are
met. When the boys have friends over and there are 4 or 5 kids here we work
even harder, but the goal is the same, that everyone's wants and needs are met
with mutually agreeable solutions. My boys have been living this way and
seeing it work so they know there is always a solution if they are willing to
work for it. Seeing it and living it they are able to take their experience
out into the world. So I see them working out solutions consensually with
friends on the playground etc. I believe that as they grow they will carry it
with them as a valuable tool.
OK I am busy with other stuff so only have a minute.
Take care,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Solé
Am 02.10.2006 um 02:24 schrieb Joanne:
there is of course nothing bad about "getting what you want" – it's
just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
just don't get what they want.
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
I've wanted soooo much to sing and be somehow successful with it. I
don't even want much – I don't want a contract with Sony or be
"famous" etc – just a local small fangroup and the ability to
complete an album, even if not published, or just sing in front of
people and of course not being "booed" after my performance. I sing
well, too! That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all, but I managed to go cleaning up
at other people's homes for money while I had a little daughter of 3
and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the
help of my parents, just to be able to pay for singing lessons. The
thing is, I still don't have any success (on my terms) with it and I
feel like I will never have. I'm getting older (that's not the point
though), I have children who demand a great deal of time in my life,
I have to work for living and there is just no time left to do
anything like that except for a few hours a month at most. For doing
music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed. And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" – if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money – it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities! And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" – then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever. And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it – but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now. So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
always taken serious about what they want and so on – but it just may
be that some of their wishes cannot become true (?) and then they
might not be able to deal with that disappointment (?) I guess that's
what people mean when they say that they won't be able to "deal with
the real world" (although I find that unschooled kids are far more in
the "real world" than school kids but...)
Greetings
Johanna
> Why does "getting what you want" get a bad rap? Don't you want yourHello Joanne,
> children to get what they want out of their lives? I know I do.
>
> What about you? Don't you want to get what you want out of your
> life? We only get one shot at this life. I don't want to look back
> at the end of mine and see a list of things I wanted but never
> reached for.
there is of course nothing bad about "getting what you want" – it's
just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
just don't get what they want.
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
I've wanted soooo much to sing and be somehow successful with it. I
don't even want much – I don't want a contract with Sony or be
"famous" etc – just a local small fangroup and the ability to
complete an album, even if not published, or just sing in front of
people and of course not being "booed" after my performance. I sing
well, too! That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all, but I managed to go cleaning up
at other people's homes for money while I had a little daughter of 3
and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the
help of my parents, just to be able to pay for singing lessons. The
thing is, I still don't have any success (on my terms) with it and I
feel like I will never have. I'm getting older (that's not the point
though), I have children who demand a great deal of time in my life,
I have to work for living and there is just no time left to do
anything like that except for a few hours a month at most. For doing
music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed. And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" – if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money – it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities! And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" – then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever. And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it – but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now. So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
always taken serious about what they want and so on – but it just may
be that some of their wishes cannot become true (?) and then they
might not be able to deal with that disappointment (?) I guess that's
what people mean when they say that they won't be able to "deal with
the real world" (although I find that unschooled kids are far more in
the "real world" than school kids but...)
Greetings
Johanna
Vickisue Gray
''while I had a little daughter of 3 and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the help of my parents,;'
I just have to ask....did your parents help you to get pregnant? And why were you on your own?
I just have an issue of blaming the parents. If you give kids free choice, and they chose poorly, is it the parents fault? I give my kids "free choice". I show them different paths towards their goals. If they chose to go a different way, should I feel guilty? Pick up their responsibility? I have two teenager girls that I have talked extensively to. I highly recommend they pursue higher education. Strive for their dreams. But am I to continue to feed and house them if they chose to not pursue a life in their adulthood? My oldest plans to continue her education in Europe.
I have pulled tons of information for her on how she can accomplish this.
If she chooses not to follow through nor do any research for herself, should I continue to carry her? There comes a point that one makes choices for oneself.
I apologize if I've offended anyone but I am not responsible for my sister's mistakes nor are my parents responsible for my choices. My job is to teach my children how to learn and grow and make wise choices for bringing their dreams to reality.
On this note.
Have a nice night
Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
Am 02.10.2006 um 02:24 schrieb Joanne:
there is of course nothing bad about "getting what you want" it's
just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
just don't get what they want.
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
I've wanted soooo much to sing and be somehow successful with it. I
don't even want much I don't want a contract with Sony or be
"famous" etc just a local small fangroup and the ability to
complete an album, even if not published, or just sing in front of
people and of course not being "booed" after my performance. I sing
well, too! That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all, but I managed to go cleaning up
at other people's homes for money while I had a little daughter of 3
and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the
help of my parents, just to be able to pay for singing lessons. The
thing is, I still don't have any success (on my terms) with it and I
feel like I will never have. I'm getting older (that's not the point
though), I have children who demand a great deal of time in my life,
I have to work for living and there is just no time left to do
anything like that except for a few hours a month at most. For doing
music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed. And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities! And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever. And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now. So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
always taken serious about what they want and so on but it just may
be that some of their wishes cannot become true (?) and then they
might not be able to deal with that disappointment (?) I guess that's
what people mean when they say that they won't be able to "deal with
the real world" (although I find that unschooled kids are far more in
the "real world" than school kids but...)
Greetings
Johanna
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just have to ask....did your parents help you to get pregnant? And why were you on your own?
I just have an issue of blaming the parents. If you give kids free choice, and they chose poorly, is it the parents fault? I give my kids "free choice". I show them different paths towards their goals. If they chose to go a different way, should I feel guilty? Pick up their responsibility? I have two teenager girls that I have talked extensively to. I highly recommend they pursue higher education. Strive for their dreams. But am I to continue to feed and house them if they chose to not pursue a life in their adulthood? My oldest plans to continue her education in Europe.
I have pulled tons of information for her on how she can accomplish this.
If she chooses not to follow through nor do any research for herself, should I continue to carry her? There comes a point that one makes choices for oneself.
I apologize if I've offended anyone but I am not responsible for my sister's mistakes nor are my parents responsible for my choices. My job is to teach my children how to learn and grow and make wise choices for bringing their dreams to reality.
On this note.
Have a nice night
Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
Am 02.10.2006 um 02:24 schrieb Joanne:
> Why does "getting what you want" get a bad rap? Don't you want yourHello Joanne,
> children to get what they want out of their lives? I know I do.
>
> What about you? Don't you want to get what you want out of your
> life? We only get one shot at this life. I don't want to look back
> at the end of mine and see a list of things I wanted but never
> reached for.
there is of course nothing bad about "getting what you want" it's
just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
just don't get what they want.
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
I've wanted soooo much to sing and be somehow successful with it. I
don't even want much I don't want a contract with Sony or be
"famous" etc just a local small fangroup and the ability to
complete an album, even if not published, or just sing in front of
people and of course not being "booed" after my performance. I sing
well, too! That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all, but I managed to go cleaning up
at other people's homes for money while I had a little daughter of 3
and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the
help of my parents, just to be able to pay for singing lessons. The
thing is, I still don't have any success (on my terms) with it and I
feel like I will never have. I'm getting older (that's not the point
though), I have children who demand a great deal of time in my life,
I have to work for living and there is just no time left to do
anything like that except for a few hours a month at most. For doing
music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed. And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities! And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever. And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now. So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
always taken serious about what they want and so on but it just may
be that some of their wishes cannot become true (?) and then they
might not be able to deal with that disappointment (?) I guess that's
what people mean when they say that they won't be able to "deal with
the real world" (although I find that unschooled kids are far more in
the "real world" than school kids but...)
Greetings
Johanna
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 2, 2006, at 2:05 AM, Solé wrote:
get what they want.
Though sometimes the process is just buying them whatever they're
asking for (a book, a candy bar, a Matchbox car), often, especially
as they get older, they want things that are more expensive things or
more complex.
If they want a picnic and it rains, they experience how to change
plans. Have a picnic inside. Or do something different and have a
picnic the next day.
If they want an expensive something that isn't in the budget to buy,
they experience creative ways the family can earn some extra cash.
eBay! Yard sale. Pooper scoopers ....
Rather than learning that the world owes them whatever they want,
they experience as they grow up problem solving ways to get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> it'sI think it's more helpful to think of it as kids learning *how* to
> just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
> kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
> just don't get what they want.
get what they want.
Though sometimes the process is just buying them whatever they're
asking for (a book, a candy bar, a Matchbox car), often, especially
as they get older, they want things that are more expensive things or
more complex.
If they want a picnic and it rains, they experience how to change
plans. Have a picnic inside. Or do something different and have a
picnic the next day.
If they want an expensive something that isn't in the budget to buy,
they experience creative ways the family can earn some extra cash.
eBay! Yard sale. Pooper scoopers ....
Rather than learning that the world owes them whatever they want,
they experience as they grow up problem solving ways to get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
Sorry, sent too soon before I finished ...
On Oct 2, 2006, at 2:05 AM, Sol� wrote:
> Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
> always taken serious about what they want and so on � but it just may
> be that some of their wishes cannot become true
And that's the good thing about learning through living. You *don't*
always get what you want and part of learning to go after your dreams
is being flexible and perhaps going after something you *can* get
that will work for now.
If the choices are to pursue what you want or not pursue it, then
pursuing it will work a lot better ;-)
If the choices are to focus on the one and only goal or to be
flexible and see the possibilities that move you closer or are
enjoyable or are a little pausing places, then being flexible will
work a lot better.
I think focusing on what you enjoy rather than where you want to be
is more likely to be successful. Focusing on what will lead you
directly to a goal is like putting on blinders and seeing only
directly ahead. It's like going to school to get into college and get
a good job ;-) You miss out on a lot of opportunities that don't fall
directly in front of you that *could* be helpful.
Keeping a goal in mind is *very* helpful, but focusing on, say a
recording, you'll be missing the fun opportunities that could -- as a
side effect -- move you closer to what you enjoy. Singing with
friends for fun would put you in contact with people who love singing
as much as you do and who know people who love singing.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining that well.
It's the journey that's important, not the destination.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<Some examples....
In the short time that she's been interested in horses, we've met
another homeschooling mother who was looking for an apprentice of
sorts. Shawna goes to her house once a week and helps her care for
her three horses. She cleans the stalls, feeds them, grooms them and
learns how to ride and jump. >
Those are awesome examples of working toward what you want in a positive
way. I see so many people looking at the road blocks that stand in their
way instead of looking at the opportunities they have to work toward a goal.
Getting what you want isn�t a bad thing as long as other people aren�t
getting hurt so you can get what you want. I hope my kids follow my
example and work hard to get whatever it is that they do want. I hope they
don�t let money or fear stand in their way. I hope they share their dreams
with others so that other people can choose to help them or not. If you
don�t put your dreams out there, people can�t begin to help you.
Angela S.
Game-enthusiast@...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the short time that she's been interested in horses, we've met
another homeschooling mother who was looking for an apprentice of
sorts. Shawna goes to her house once a week and helps her care for
her three horses. She cleans the stalls, feeds them, grooms them and
learns how to ride and jump. >
Those are awesome examples of working toward what you want in a positive
way. I see so many people looking at the road blocks that stand in their
way instead of looking at the opportunities they have to work toward a goal.
Getting what you want isn�t a bad thing as long as other people aren�t
getting hurt so you can get what you want. I hope my kids follow my
example and work hard to get whatever it is that they do want. I hope they
don�t let money or fear stand in their way. I hope they share their dreams
with others so that other people can choose to help them or not. If you
don�t put your dreams out there, people can�t begin to help you.
Angela S.
Game-enthusiast@...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
It may take longer since you do have small kids to care for but it is
not undoable. A friend of ours writes music, plays guitar and sings.
He loves it. He sings at coffee shop open mike events (maybe once a
month or less often) and so on. He has also recorded (self-recorded,
self-published) several CDs and people actually buy them - $5 apiece
(covers materials and time to duplicate them and such). It's all
doable with just a good mic and some good computer software to record
and burn CDs. Make your own CD of lullabyes for the kids if simply
having a recording of your singing is important to you.
Don't write off your heart's desire simply because the path to it is
not the path you expected it to be.
--Deb
not undoable. A friend of ours writes music, plays guitar and sings.
He loves it. He sings at coffee shop open mike events (maybe once a
month or less often) and so on. He has also recorded (self-recorded,
self-published) several CDs and people actually buy them - $5 apiece
(covers materials and time to duplicate them and such). It's all
doable with just a good mic and some good computer software to record
and burn CDs. Make your own CD of lullabyes for the kids if simply
having a recording of your singing is important to you.
Don't write off your heart's desire simply because the path to it is
not the path you expected it to be.
--Deb
patrick morris
I wanted to respond to the person who felt they had lost what they
wanted , or were losing it ( singing). I think that what you wanted
is a particular relationship, a way of being treated and seen,
known . I think it is important to explore this and not be confused
by a chosen container , a concrete expression that you can hold on
to. I think what you want may be available , but that there are
many wishes and motivations involved. I think being too stuck in the
concrete and not undrstanding your emotional expereince is a
mistake, keeping it concrete is a way to have or not, ( but not
really be engaged with being)it is a splitting, yes -no , good -bad,
this allows you to flip back and forth between two modes of being
and I beleive to be strangulated ways to experience the world. i
think both are very molded from past ways you have forged to deal
with pressures and emotional experiences as best as you could in
the past. I think you can do better now, to try to delve more deeply
into your desires and wishes and try to understand what you wanted
and from whom, and to explore the relationships and past losses. I
feel what you describe as what you always wanted is something that
you weren't allowed to experience as a child and again I don't mean
this concretely but emotionally. I think what your expressing in
your sadness is an attempt a true wish to give up this past
insistance on getting ( entitlement) of what we all ideally do
deserve as children. I think your pondering attempting to let this
go and engage with what is present for you. I think this scares you
as you somewhat bleakly desribe your economic situation. I think
artistic creative processes allow us to see and experience a
reality that is open, to continually allow a flow of new ideas and
emotional experiences that saturate our preconceptions but also
allow these new conceptions to become unsaturated anew. I think your
wish of singing is powerful and is a rich source of life and hope
and faith, but that your idea of seeing this as successful is not so
healthy, is annonymous approval and about getting what you didn't
before, I think that singing is a very good venue to explore your
emotions and understanding of your experience , I also think that
the community or fan base you really need is one of like minded
musicians who explore art for its wisdom beauty and grace and not
for its vaidation in a commodity based society that is estranged
from trying to get what it wants but settles for a dull drone .
sorry for the rambling nature and this is meant as an expression of
experiences I have had and trying to project them upon your
situation. I know I know you not and don't suppose I'm correct but i
offer it as an interpretatiion to think of and discard what seems
ludicrous
patrick
wanted , or were losing it ( singing). I think that what you wanted
is a particular relationship, a way of being treated and seen,
known . I think it is important to explore this and not be confused
by a chosen container , a concrete expression that you can hold on
to. I think what you want may be available , but that there are
many wishes and motivations involved. I think being too stuck in the
concrete and not undrstanding your emotional expereince is a
mistake, keeping it concrete is a way to have or not, ( but not
really be engaged with being)it is a splitting, yes -no , good -bad,
this allows you to flip back and forth between two modes of being
and I beleive to be strangulated ways to experience the world. i
think both are very molded from past ways you have forged to deal
with pressures and emotional experiences as best as you could in
the past. I think you can do better now, to try to delve more deeply
into your desires and wishes and try to understand what you wanted
and from whom, and to explore the relationships and past losses. I
feel what you describe as what you always wanted is something that
you weren't allowed to experience as a child and again I don't mean
this concretely but emotionally. I think what your expressing in
your sadness is an attempt a true wish to give up this past
insistance on getting ( entitlement) of what we all ideally do
deserve as children. I think your pondering attempting to let this
go and engage with what is present for you. I think this scares you
as you somewhat bleakly desribe your economic situation. I think
artistic creative processes allow us to see and experience a
reality that is open, to continually allow a flow of new ideas and
emotional experiences that saturate our preconceptions but also
allow these new conceptions to become unsaturated anew. I think your
wish of singing is powerful and is a rich source of life and hope
and faith, but that your idea of seeing this as successful is not so
healthy, is annonymous approval and about getting what you didn't
before, I think that singing is a very good venue to explore your
emotions and understanding of your experience , I also think that
the community or fan base you really need is one of like minded
musicians who explore art for its wisdom beauty and grace and not
for its vaidation in a commodity based society that is estranged
from trying to get what it wants but settles for a dull drone .
sorry for the rambling nature and this is meant as an expression of
experiences I have had and trying to project them upon your
situation. I know I know you not and don't suppose I'm correct but i
offer it as an interpretatiion to think of and discard what seems
ludicrous
patrick
Solé
Hello my dear list,
thank you all for your replies. I knew you would have good answers :-)
Am 02.10.2006 um 14:42 schrieb Deb:
of mine for so very long and it just gets worse. I don't feel like
I've not tried enough or that I expected one way and so was blind to
others. I am in the lucky position that the man I make music with (or
want to), is IN THE HOUSE! We live together, he is the father of my
son and the man I love. We've worked hard to get the best software
available (we make electronic music, I sing to it), but it seems
there is just no time left – and this even though my daughter is at
school, and we should have "time", but we just don't have – and I
DON'T use all my time cleaning up, it's rather chaotic in the
house... We have only small amounts of time in which nothing really
can be done, besides writing e-mails or reading a bit – and now with
unschooling it is less time even :-) You know, these 5 Minutes in
between or 10 or maybe 30 sometimes before the next "Mama!" comes...
and by the end of the day, when there would finally be like 1-2 hours
I'm so exhausted I have no muse to make music or sing or compose.
Since we are unschooling there is even less time and by the time we
will be able to fully unschool, take her off from school I'll even
have less time, so I really don't see it happen at all. The one thing
I did though is that I'm teaching Spanish through songs, each lesson
is based on a spanish song, and I bring my guitar and we sing, it is
much fun. But it is not my dream and it is not as satisfying. I'm
always trying to write it off because it is so difficult to deal with
the fact that it just won't happen.
How do you ever get things done for yourself? Maybe it's easier for
you when you do things that don't require really quiet moments. For
recording, good recording, it needs to be really quiet.
Greetings
Johanna
thank you all for your replies. I knew you would have good answers :-)
Am 02.10.2006 um 14:42 schrieb Deb:
> Don't write off your heart's desire simply because the path to it isI was kind of writing it off.. I've been trying to pursue this dream
> not the path you expected it to be.
of mine for so very long and it just gets worse. I don't feel like
I've not tried enough or that I expected one way and so was blind to
others. I am in the lucky position that the man I make music with (or
want to), is IN THE HOUSE! We live together, he is the father of my
son and the man I love. We've worked hard to get the best software
available (we make electronic music, I sing to it), but it seems
there is just no time left – and this even though my daughter is at
school, and we should have "time", but we just don't have – and I
DON'T use all my time cleaning up, it's rather chaotic in the
house... We have only small amounts of time in which nothing really
can be done, besides writing e-mails or reading a bit – and now with
unschooling it is less time even :-) You know, these 5 Minutes in
between or 10 or maybe 30 sometimes before the next "Mama!" comes...
and by the end of the day, when there would finally be like 1-2 hours
I'm so exhausted I have no muse to make music or sing or compose.
Since we are unschooling there is even less time and by the time we
will be able to fully unschool, take her off from school I'll even
have less time, so I really don't see it happen at all. The one thing
I did though is that I'm teaching Spanish through songs, each lesson
is based on a spanish song, and I bring my guitar and we sing, it is
much fun. But it is not my dream and it is not as satisfying. I'm
always trying to write it off because it is so difficult to deal with
the fact that it just won't happen.
How do you ever get things done for yourself? Maybe it's easier for
you when you do things that don't require really quiet moments. For
recording, good recording, it needs to be really quiet.
Greetings
Johanna
Deb
--- In [email protected], Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
musicians do at some point in their careers). How about getting a
*group* of kids together and sing a Live concert for them? Record the
whole thing, claps and giggles and all.
--Deb
>ForUnless, of course, you are recording a "Live" album (which most major
> recording, good recording, it needs to be really quiet.
>
> Greetings
> Johanna
>
musicians do at some point in their careers). How about getting a
*group* of kids together and sing a Live concert for them? Record the
whole thing, claps and giggles and all.
--Deb
Ren Allen
"So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-("
Wow...I have SO much to say on this topic,but I'll try to be brief. If
singing is what truly brings you joy, then you can access that joy
anytimes you wish. It sounds like you have this very exact, concrete
version of what "success" looks like in your life and anything less is
a "failure". Not a great way to approach your passions.
Let GO of your version of anything. Get out of that tiny little box
you've put your dreams into and start approaching what you love with
abandon! Do it because it makes you happy. Sing because you have a
beautiful voice and create opportunities to follow your passion within
the live you CHOSE for yourself. You chose exactly where you are
today. You chose the children, the lifestyle...all of it. And if you
can begin to see it all as a choice to be enjoyed, then what is there
to cry about?
Having a very concrete version of "success" will limit you. Maybe the
universe has a better idea of how that voice will enrich your life and
the world!! Pursuing your passion is part of it, but trusting the flow
of life is another big part. That doesn't make us passive
participants, but it does open a person up for change/flow and the
ability to ADAPT.
I think unschooled kids, while perfectly able to acheive their dreams
and goals, will be much less rigid than schooled minds. They KNOW that
life throws curveballs at us. They are creative thinkers!! Having a
defined version of success is not even part of my children's lives!
Not mine either.
We do what we love, we go where that leads. If one thing doesn't work
out the way we planned, we can go in a new direction. It's all good!
As far as singing, there are so many independent artists that record
their own CD's. Have you ever done that? Maybe just having your own CD
could be a life goal regardless of whether ANYONE buys it! Maybe
singing for weddings or local shows occasionally would be fun? Maybe
giving singing lessons would be a part-time way to keep in touch with
what you love while still being available for your children.
You sound very "stuck" in your ideas and passions. Loosen up. Crying
about what you don't have isn't going to help you find your joy. You
have your voice, you're alive, you could live to be 100 and how are
you going to spend the rest of your time here? Make it GREAT.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-("
Wow...I have SO much to say on this topic,but I'll try to be brief. If
singing is what truly brings you joy, then you can access that joy
anytimes you wish. It sounds like you have this very exact, concrete
version of what "success" looks like in your life and anything less is
a "failure". Not a great way to approach your passions.
Let GO of your version of anything. Get out of that tiny little box
you've put your dreams into and start approaching what you love with
abandon! Do it because it makes you happy. Sing because you have a
beautiful voice and create opportunities to follow your passion within
the live you CHOSE for yourself. You chose exactly where you are
today. You chose the children, the lifestyle...all of it. And if you
can begin to see it all as a choice to be enjoyed, then what is there
to cry about?
Having a very concrete version of "success" will limit you. Maybe the
universe has a better idea of how that voice will enrich your life and
the world!! Pursuing your passion is part of it, but trusting the flow
of life is another big part. That doesn't make us passive
participants, but it does open a person up for change/flow and the
ability to ADAPT.
I think unschooled kids, while perfectly able to acheive their dreams
and goals, will be much less rigid than schooled minds. They KNOW that
life throws curveballs at us. They are creative thinkers!! Having a
defined version of success is not even part of my children's lives!
Not mine either.
We do what we love, we go where that leads. If one thing doesn't work
out the way we planned, we can go in a new direction. It's all good!
As far as singing, there are so many independent artists that record
their own CD's. Have you ever done that? Maybe just having your own CD
could be a life goal regardless of whether ANYONE buys it! Maybe
singing for weddings or local shows occasionally would be fun? Maybe
giving singing lessons would be a part-time way to keep in touch with
what you love while still being available for your children.
You sound very "stuck" in your ideas and passions. Loosen up. Crying
about what you don't have isn't going to help you find your joy. You
have your voice, you're alive, you could live to be 100 and how are
you going to spend the rest of your time here? Make it GREAT.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Solé
Hello,
I didn't quite understand what you are saying.
I simply said that I didn't have any help from my parents – neither
to just "live" (financial support or something) nor to pursue my
dreams. Actually, they had a lot of money at the time and I wanted to
study music. To study music, I had to, by the curriculum of the
university, perform a piece on a piano. I asked piano teachers if it
would be possible to learn a piece good enough in half a year as to
perform and get accepted. It was possible and many people do it this
way, they said. I asked my parents for piano lessons at the time but
they said it wasn't the right choice for me and it was stupid to
think I could pursue a musical career because "all good musicians
start at 3 years old" or something like that. They didn't believe in
me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
When I then, by an "accident" a don't regret :-) got pregnant (and
no, they didn't help me ;-) (but what does it matter? I don't get it,
please explain)) and had a household of my own, it took 2 years or so
until I could, next to my studies at university, go cleaning up for
lack of a better job at the time - to have some extra money next to
what the state could afford on me - to pay singing lessons.
I was on my own, because I chose to – I was 21 when I got pregnant
and I was able to manage and am since!
I don't quite understand your issue with blaming the parents. Of
course, if you as a parent GIVE free choice, then nobody can blame
you. If the parents DON'T GIVE free choice and are rather your
enemies, putting stones in your way, how could I not blame them?
And anyway, I wasn't blaming them – I was just trying to explain the
situation I was it, and show how badly I wanted to sing, that I even
did a shitty job I hated for it, and this in the context of "bad
times" cause I wasn't financially supported by my parents.
My mother also says she's not responsible for my feelings. So if she
ever treats me bad, and I feel bad – it's not her fault, since it's
"up to me" if I feel bad!! Good logic! This way you are never guilty
and never wrong with what you do, then you never have to change
anything even if you hurt other people! And I'm never allowed to
blame her? Hm, maybe you could explain, because I don't really
understand, or I'm thinking really wrong :-) I'm up to be convinced!
Johanna
Am 02.10.2006 um 08:51 schrieb Vickisue Gray:
I didn't quite understand what you are saying.
I simply said that I didn't have any help from my parents – neither
to just "live" (financial support or something) nor to pursue my
dreams. Actually, they had a lot of money at the time and I wanted to
study music. To study music, I had to, by the curriculum of the
university, perform a piece on a piano. I asked piano teachers if it
would be possible to learn a piece good enough in half a year as to
perform and get accepted. It was possible and many people do it this
way, they said. I asked my parents for piano lessons at the time but
they said it wasn't the right choice for me and it was stupid to
think I could pursue a musical career because "all good musicians
start at 3 years old" or something like that. They didn't believe in
me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
When I then, by an "accident" a don't regret :-) got pregnant (and
no, they didn't help me ;-) (but what does it matter? I don't get it,
please explain)) and had a household of my own, it took 2 years or so
until I could, next to my studies at university, go cleaning up for
lack of a better job at the time - to have some extra money next to
what the state could afford on me - to pay singing lessons.
I was on my own, because I chose to – I was 21 when I got pregnant
and I was able to manage and am since!
I don't quite understand your issue with blaming the parents. Of
course, if you as a parent GIVE free choice, then nobody can blame
you. If the parents DON'T GIVE free choice and are rather your
enemies, putting stones in your way, how could I not blame them?
And anyway, I wasn't blaming them – I was just trying to explain the
situation I was it, and show how badly I wanted to sing, that I even
did a shitty job I hated for it, and this in the context of "bad
times" cause I wasn't financially supported by my parents.
My mother also says she's not responsible for my feelings. So if she
ever treats me bad, and I feel bad – it's not her fault, since it's
"up to me" if I feel bad!! Good logic! This way you are never guilty
and never wrong with what you do, then you never have to change
anything even if you hurt other people! And I'm never allowed to
blame her? Hm, maybe you could explain, because I don't really
understand, or I'm thinking really wrong :-) I'm up to be convinced!
Johanna
Am 02.10.2006 um 08:51 schrieb Vickisue Gray:
> ''while I had a little daughter of 3 and was studying at the same
> time and living on my own without the help of my parents,;'
>
> I just have to ask....did your parents help you to get pregnant?
> And why were you on your own?
>
> I just have an issue of blaming the parents. If you give kids free
> choice, and they chose poorly, is it the parents fault? I give my
> kids "free choice". I show them different paths towards their
> goals. If they chose to go a different way, should I feel guilty?
> Pick up their responsibility? I have two teenager girls that I have
> talked extensively to. I highly recommend they pursue higher
> education. Strive for their dreams. But am I to continue to feed
> and house them if they chose to not pursue a life in their
> adulthood? My oldest plans to continue her education in Europe.
> I have pulled tons of information for her on how she can accomplish
> this.
>
> If she chooses not to follow through nor do any research for
> herself, should I continue to carry her? There comes a point that
> one makes choices for oneself.
> I apologize if I've offended anyone but I am not responsible for my
> sister's mistakes nor are my parents responsible for my choices. My
> job is to teach my children how to learn and grow and make wise
> choices for bringing their dreams to reality.
>
> On this note.
> Have a nice night
>
> Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
>
> Am 02.10.2006 um 02:24 schrieb Joanne:
>
> > Why does "getting what you want" get a bad rap? Don't you want your
> > children to get what they want out of their lives? I know I do.
> >
> > What about you? Don't you want to get what you want out of your
> > life? We only get one shot at this life. I don't want to look back
> > at the end of mine and see a list of things I wanted but never
> > reached for.
>
> Hello Joanne,
>
> there is of course nothing bad about "getting what you want" – it's
> just bad if you don't get it after all. I guess I wonder if these
> kids can deal with it better or worse than mainstream people, if they
> just don't get what they want.
>
> There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
>
> I've wanted soooo much to sing and be somehow successful with it. I
> don't even want much – I don't want a contract with Sony or be
> "famous" etc – just a local small fangroup and the ability to
> complete an album, even if not published, or just sing in front of
> people and of course not being "booed" after my performance. I sing
> well, too! That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
> my parents weren't supportive at all, but I managed to go cleaning up
> at other people's homes for money while I had a little daughter of 3
> and was studying at the same time and living on my own without the
> help of my parents, just to be able to pay for singing lessons. The
> thing is, I still don't have any success (on my terms) with it and I
> feel like I will never have. I'm getting older (that's not the point
> though), I have children who demand a great deal of time in my life,
> I have to work for living and there is just no time left to do
> anything like that except for a few hours a month at most. For doing
> music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to kind of
> "work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
> you really want to succeed. And then there is this big ammount of
> millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
> more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
> people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
>
> I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
> you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
> is quite like the "American Dream" – if you really want it, you WILL
> get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
> succeed to always get a greater job and get more money – it means
> you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
> not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities! And
> though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
> in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
> you don't succeed in what you "wanted" – then you probably didn't
> want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
> dumb or whatever. And thinking that "if you only want somehting
> enough.." made me confident I *would* get it – but I don't see it
> happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now. So the
> disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
> over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
> So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
> "will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
> about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
> taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
>
> Of course, unschooled children are given all the possibilities and
> always taken serious about what they want and so on – but it just may
> be that some of their wishes cannot become true (?) and then they
> might not be able to deal with that disappointment (?) I guess that's
> what people mean when they say that they won't be able to "deal with
> the real world" (although I find that unschooled kids are far more in
> the "real world" than school kids but...)
>
> Greetings
> Johanna
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone
> call rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
Ren Allen
"And I'm never allowed to
blame her? "
Depends.
YES, I think you have a right to be angry at their lack of support. I
think anger is the first step to healing. I think you have every right
to examine what they did wrong, turn it over and look at every angle
and in every light. I think seeing clearly where they didn't help you,
will actually be a very important piece in letting it go.
So blame them for their actions or lack of actions. BUT, don't blame
them as an excuse for what you are or are not today. Because now it's
up to you. You have a choice to be bigger and better than their
limitations. You have a right to everything your heart desires. You
are worthy and beautiful and talented. Their limited and limiting view
of YOU is NOT what you are about!! That's it. Simple right? But
disentangling ourselves from our parents view of us is sometimes more
complicated than all that. That's why I believe it is SO important
for us to be that clear/calm pool, so that we reflect the TRUTH of our
children back to themselves, rather than some distorted view that is
filtered through fears and judgement.
It's a process. One that you can live in each moment. When you hear
that voice saying "I'm not good enough" you can LAUGH in it's face and
say "that isn't ME!! I AM good, I AM talented, I AM successful"
YOUR voice wouldn't put you down, would it? So that must be someone
elses voice getting inside your head and it has no right to be there
any longer.:)
Replace all those voices with positive self-talk. Practice
self-kindness and compassion. Give yourself and your children all that
positive talk that your parents could not give you. Recognize that it
wasn't about YOU at all...it was their own lack and self-perception
that allowed them to rob you of fullness. It was about THEM, not YOU.
Maybe you already know this logically. But I think emotionally you're
hanging onto some of the fears they dumped on you. They had no right
to do it, but they truly didn't know better. So let it go. Let
yourself be the fullest expression of YOU. You are not defined by
anyone elses expectations or ideas. Go ahead.....be larger than life!!
It's ok to be grand and beautiful and amazing. It's ok to be in the
spotlight. It's ok to be the master and captain of your ship....don't
let anyone tell you differently.:) It's also ok to surround yourself
with people that buy into your dreams and limit people that aren't
going to support it. Create the world you NEED to nourish yourself and
your BIG dreams. Then simply live the passion each day, without any
limiting ideas of what those dreams look like. Just BE a singer.
Because you are.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
blame her? "
Depends.
YES, I think you have a right to be angry at their lack of support. I
think anger is the first step to healing. I think you have every right
to examine what they did wrong, turn it over and look at every angle
and in every light. I think seeing clearly where they didn't help you,
will actually be a very important piece in letting it go.
So blame them for their actions or lack of actions. BUT, don't blame
them as an excuse for what you are or are not today. Because now it's
up to you. You have a choice to be bigger and better than their
limitations. You have a right to everything your heart desires. You
are worthy and beautiful and talented. Their limited and limiting view
of YOU is NOT what you are about!! That's it. Simple right? But
disentangling ourselves from our parents view of us is sometimes more
complicated than all that. That's why I believe it is SO important
for us to be that clear/calm pool, so that we reflect the TRUTH of our
children back to themselves, rather than some distorted view that is
filtered through fears and judgement.
It's a process. One that you can live in each moment. When you hear
that voice saying "I'm not good enough" you can LAUGH in it's face and
say "that isn't ME!! I AM good, I AM talented, I AM successful"
YOUR voice wouldn't put you down, would it? So that must be someone
elses voice getting inside your head and it has no right to be there
any longer.:)
Replace all those voices with positive self-talk. Practice
self-kindness and compassion. Give yourself and your children all that
positive talk that your parents could not give you. Recognize that it
wasn't about YOU at all...it was their own lack and self-perception
that allowed them to rob you of fullness. It was about THEM, not YOU.
Maybe you already know this logically. But I think emotionally you're
hanging onto some of the fears they dumped on you. They had no right
to do it, but they truly didn't know better. So let it go. Let
yourself be the fullest expression of YOU. You are not defined by
anyone elses expectations or ideas. Go ahead.....be larger than life!!
It's ok to be grand and beautiful and amazing. It's ok to be in the
spotlight. It's ok to be the master and captain of your ship....don't
let anyone tell you differently.:) It's also ok to surround yourself
with people that buy into your dreams and limit people that aren't
going to support it. Create the world you NEED to nourish yourself and
your BIG dreams. Then simply live the passion each day, without any
limiting ideas of what those dreams look like. Just BE a singer.
Because you are.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/1/06, Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
want" and "pursuing the means to get what you want." That's not what
unschooling is about. Unscooling is about working towards a goal, not
just sitting around waiting for people to hand you life on a platter.
It isn't about catering to your children, but about helping your
children *working with* your children to help them purusue their
dreams.
Unschooling means that barriers are only meant to be worked through,
not to stop you from pursuing the things you love.
Michelle
> I have a question: I assume that nobody here is concerned that theirI think there is a BIG difference in "should always get what they
> children, when older, might think that because their parents always
> helped them "get what they want", they SHOULD always get what they
> want – also from non-parents (like, when they leave home or have a
> job or whatever). Why?
want" and "pursuing the means to get what you want." That's not what
unschooling is about. Unscooling is about working towards a goal, not
just sitting around waiting for people to hand you life on a platter.
It isn't about catering to your children, but about helping your
children *working with* your children to help them purusue their
dreams.
Unschooling means that barriers are only meant to be worked through,
not to stop you from pursuing the things you love.
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 10/2/06, Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
WANT to! You don't have to PROVE anything to your parents. YOu don't
have to prove anything to anyone. If you are going to sing, dance,
create, paint, draw, weave, spin, knit, cook, grow a garden, ride a
unicycle, WHATEVER
>They didn't believe inOh gosh, don't sing because someone expects you to. Sing because you
> me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
> front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
> nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
> will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
> course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
>
WANT to! You don't have to PROVE anything to your parents. YOu don't
have to prove anything to anyone. If you are going to sing, dance,
create, paint, draw, weave, spin, knit, cook, grow a garden, ride a
unicycle, WHATEVER
Michelle Leifur Reid
(picking up where I left off - gmail went crazy and sent this before I
was through LOL!)
was through LOL!)
On 10/2/06, Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
> On 10/2/06, Solé <solelokuai@...> wrote:
> >They didn't believe in
> > me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
> > front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
> > nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
> > will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
> > course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
> >
>
> Oh gosh, don't sing because someone expects you to. Sing because you
> WANT to! You don't have to PROVE anything to your parents. YOu don't
> have to prove anything to anyone. If you are going to sing, dance,
> create, paint, draw, weave, spin, knit, cook, grow a garden, ride a
> unicycle, WHATEVER do it because you WANT to not because you feel you have to prove that you can. If music is a dream of yours, then pursue it. Take a class here or there. Find a voice or piano teacher who teachers "children of all ages" or that specializes in teaching adults. You don't have to go to the big concert halls to prove that you are good enough. You do these things because you enjoy them. I think it was Harrison Ford who said something like, "If I didn't love acting I wouldn't do it. I don't ever want to do something that I don't love and I don't want to do something that I loathe. I act because I enjoy it, not to prove anything to anyone, but just because I love creating my craft." (that is major paraphrased and it may have been another actor - but I do remember I saw it on Inside the Actor's Studio).
I was a theatre arts major with minor studies in vocal music. I was
not supported by my parents in this dream at all. They wanted me to
be a doctor or a nurse or a lawyer or a teacher. Something
*practical*! I paid for all 5 years of college with very little
assistance from my parents. I did it because I loved what I was
doing. I loved creating, acting, singing, dancing, making people
laugh, cry, giggle, and blush. I think now how much easier it would
have been had my parents actually supported at least my dreams. Even
if they never gave me a penny of financial support, if they had just
believed in me and been proud of what I did. THAT is what our
children need most from us. That belief in their dreams and helping
them to pursue them.
Sing because you want to sing.
Michelle - who is often found singing at work and not realizing it!
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Michelle Leifur Reid"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
the key of J (or was it Q?lol) but I still sing anyhow when the
feeling hits. About the only one who asks me to sing is DS - he likes
me singing to him when he goes to bed, the old songs that I've been
singing to him since he was an infant.
--Deb
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>And then there's me - no singing lessons, have about a 5 note range in
> Sing because you want to sing.
>
> Michelle - who is often found singing at work and not realizing it!
>
the key of J (or was it Q?lol) but I still sing anyhow when the
feeling hits. About the only one who asks me to sing is DS - he likes
me singing to him when he goes to bed, the old songs that I've been
singing to him since he was an infant.
--Deb
[email protected]
Original message:
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
-=-=-=-=-=-
I HOPE my chidren will always be confident that they will get what they
want. With the power to know *what* they want, they'll be able to deal
with temporary disappointments and set-backs. Thinking that they
weren't good *enough* or worthy *enough* could make them simply
quit---or not even bother to try. I'd much rather know that *they* know
that they are capable.
-=-=-=-=-
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
-=-=-=-=-
No, but it IS guaranteed that, f you DON'T go after it at all, you
won't attain *anything*!
-=-=-=-=-
That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all,
-=-=-=-
Sorry---you don't seem passionate *enough* to me.
Oh! And how is that "unsupportive parent thing" working out for *you*?
Do you want the same thing for your daughter? What would you do
differently for your daughter? Or do you think that being just as
unsupportive would give her an edge---or would it make her strive less
for those things that are important to her---I mean, you don't want her
to think she can have anything she wants, right?
-=-=-=-=-
For doing music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to
kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed.
-=-=-=-
My son, at 18, is a professional musician. Yes, he puts *many* hours in
each day to improve/learn new licks, etc. It IS his "real" job. He
*chooses* to make that his priority. He's backed off on the time he
spends watching TV, reading, talking with his girlfriend, and even
being on the COMPUTER!!! Because music IS his priority. But that's
true of anyone who is looking to make a career of anything. He CHOOSES
where he spends his time.
You just told us a week or two ago that you have no passions except for
the computer---now you're telling us that you have no time for your
passion of singing.
Drop the computer time! Go sing! Quit whining!
-=-=-=-=-=-=
And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
-=-=-=-
PuhLEEZE! Quit yer bitchin'!
Thats what business is ABOUT! Being more skilled, more talented.
Knowing more people, advertising yourself, arranging, composing. THAT's
what the music industry IS.
Are you willing to DO those things? Don't go telling me that it's not
possible! I have a now 18 year old son who networks all OVER town and
knows ALL the big names here because he would go out every
night---since he was 15---to hear music and sit in on workshops and ask
questions and introduce himself to strangers and play at every possible
opportunity. And he's SHY! Well, he *was*! <g> He MADE the
opportunities FOR himself. I can't go anywhere in town now with him
without someone coming up to speak to him about music or film. He's put
himself OUT there.
He's not unique (well, he IS! <g>)---but this is how you make it in the
music business---you network. You play. You sing.
You DON'T sit in your apartment and whine that you can't sing!!!
--=-=-=-==--=
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" – if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money – it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities!
-=-=-=-
This is just an excuse. The ONLY way people have made it IS by being
creative, working hard, finding ways.
ALL people have equal opportunities. Opportunities are OUT there.
Everywhere. Every day. But you're not going to find them sitting in a
room. Get OUT---go to clubs. Sing for tips. Sing for free. Just sing!
Sing at Open Mike Night---that's how Cameron ot his first paying gig!
He would go every Wednesday night to Open Mike Night. He played the
drums. Eventually the owner/band leader hired him as the house drummer
when his old drummer moved to be with his dying mother. Cameron has a
year contract with "Fatback and the Groove Band" as their drummer. A
paying gig. Just for showing up every Wednesday for four months!
OH! And their singer is also a waitress there--she gets up and sings
between tables! She can belt out some blues!!! <g>
-=-=-=-=
And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" – then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever.
-=--=-
Uh huh. But you're going to tell me that you want it enough and are
trying hard enough and aren't lazy or whatever---right?
But I don't see you out at night singing! You're spending all your time
on the computer---you told us so!
You won't even sing at Christmas in front of your parents!
-=-=-=-=-
And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it – but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now.
-=-=-=-=-
I don't think you were at ALL confident. I don't think you have been
out singing anywhere. For 10-15 years---you just *wished* you were a
rich and famous singer. *Wanting* something enough and *Going AFTER*
something enough are two completely diferent things!
Easy to say you weren't responsible for that.
Easy to blame parents the FIRST 10-15 years---but after that, it's up
to YOU!
-=-=-=-
So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
-==-=-
And WHAT are you DOing about it?
Throwing a pity party or going out and singing every night?
-=-==-=-
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy
-=-=-=-=-
First: Yes, I hope they will be very confident---beats the hell out of
lacking confidence, wouldn't you say?
Second: Their disappointments won't come from NOT trying.
Third: "Dealing" with it and "Doing" something about it are two
completely different things. Mine will be/are DOERS.
Fourth: NO one is "completely happy." We can choose to be joyful, and
we can choose to find joy in what we have and in what we're seeking. We
can choose to enjoy the journey. Crying every night because we haven't
put forth the effort will never make someone happy either. But going
after what we love because we LOVE is can be joyful and inspiring.
Go sing!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy :-(
-=-=-=-=-=-
I HOPE my chidren will always be confident that they will get what they
want. With the power to know *what* they want, they'll be able to deal
with temporary disappointments and set-backs. Thinking that they
weren't good *enough* or worthy *enough* could make them simply
quit---or not even bother to try. I'd much rather know that *they* know
that they are capable.
-=-=-=-=-
There are no guarantees you will always get what you want.
-=-=-=-=-
No, but it IS guaranteed that, f you DON'T go after it at all, you
won't attain *anything*!
-=-=-=-=-
That's my passion and that's what I always wanted. Sure,
my parents weren't supportive at all,
-=-=-=-
Sorry---you don't seem passionate *enough* to me.
Oh! And how is that "unsupportive parent thing" working out for *you*?
Do you want the same thing for your daughter? What would you do
differently for your daughter? Or do you think that being just as
unsupportive would give her an edge---or would it make her strive less
for those things that are important to her---I mean, you don't want her
to think she can have anything she wants, right?
-=-=-=-=-
For doing music, like professionally or even semi-pro., you have to
kind of
"work" on it as much as you'd be willing to work for a "real" job, if
you really want to succeed.
-=-=-=-
My son, at 18, is a professional musician. Yes, he puts *many* hours in
each day to improve/learn new licks, etc. It IS his "real" job. He
*chooses* to make that his priority. He's backed off on the time he
spends watching TV, reading, talking with his girlfriend, and even
being on the COMPUTER!!! Because music IS his priority. But that's
true of anyone who is looking to make a career of anything. He CHOOSES
where he spends his time.
You just told us a week or two ago that you have no passions except for
the computer---now you're telling us that you have no time for your
passion of singing.
Drop the computer time! Go sing! Quit whining!
-=-=-=-=-=-=
And then there is this big ammount of
millions of people who want the same, there is always someone who is
more skilled than I am (in singing, or in getting to know the "right"
people, in advertising himself, in arranging, in composing etc...)
-=-=-=-
PuhLEEZE! Quit yer bitchin'!
Thats what business is ABOUT! Being more skilled, more talented.
Knowing more people, advertising yourself, arranging, composing. THAT's
what the music industry IS.
Are you willing to DO those things? Don't go telling me that it's not
possible! I have a now 18 year old son who networks all OVER town and
knows ALL the big names here because he would go out every
night---since he was 15---to hear music and sit in on workshops and ask
questions and introduce himself to strangers and play at every possible
opportunity. And he's SHY! Well, he *was*! <g> He MADE the
opportunities FOR himself. I can't go anywhere in town now with him
without someone coming up to speak to him about music or film. He's put
himself OUT there.
He's not unique (well, he IS! <g>)---but this is how you make it in the
music business---you network. You play. You sing.
You DON'T sit in your apartment and whine that you can't sing!!!
--=-=-=-==--=
I used to think "if you only *want* something enough, you'll get it",
you just have to work hard, be creative, find ways etc etc. But this
is quite like the "American Dream" – if you really want it, you WILL
get it, it promises, but if you don't and stay poor, and don't
succeed to always get a greater job and get more money – it means
you are lazy "then you just didn't work hard enough". This is just
not the case, because not all people have equal opportunities!
-=-=-=-
This is just an excuse. The ONLY way people have made it IS by being
creative, working hard, finding ways.
ALL people have equal opportunities. Opportunities are OUT there.
Everywhere. Every day. But you're not going to find them sitting in a
room. Get OUT---go to clubs. Sing for tips. Sing for free. Just sing!
Sing at Open Mike Night---that's how Cameron ot his first paying gig!
He would go every Wednesday night to Open Mike Night. He played the
drums. Eventually the owner/band leader hired him as the house drummer
when his old drummer moved to be with his dying mother. Cameron has a
year contract with "Fatback and the Groove Band" as their drummer. A
paying gig. Just for showing up every Wednesday for four months!
OH! And their singer is also a waitress there--she gets up and sings
between tables! She can belt out some blues!!! <g>
-=-=-=-=
And
though what I used to think had nothing to do with the American Dream
in the sense of growing rich out of nothing, it still implies that if
you don't succeed in what you "wanted" – then you probably didn't
want it enough, or you didn't try hard enough or you are just lazy or
dumb or whatever.
-=--=-
Uh huh. But you're going to tell me that you want it enough and are
trying hard enough and aren't lazy or whatever---right?
But I don't see you out at night singing! You're spending all your time
on the computer---you told us so!
You won't even sing at Christmas in front of your parents!
-=-=-=-=-
And thinking that "if you only want somehting
enough.." made me confident I *would* get it – but I don't see it
happening at all, and this is since 10, 15 years now.
-=-=-=-=-
I don't think you were at ALL confident. I don't think you have been
out singing anywhere. For 10-15 years---you just *wished* you were a
rich and famous singer. *Wanting* something enough and *Going AFTER*
something enough are two completely diferent things!
Easy to say you weren't responsible for that.
Easy to blame parents the FIRST 10-15 years---but after that, it's up
to YOU!
-=-=-=-
So the
disappointment of not getting what I wanted has caused many tears
over the past 5 years because my goal seems farther and farther away.
-==-=-
And WHAT are you DOing about it?
Throwing a pity party or going out and singing every night?
-=-==-=-
So unschooled children, won't they always be very confident they
"will" get what they want and then be also as disappointed as I am
about not getting it? I'm learning to deal with it though but it has
taken years of crying each month for not being completely happy
-=-=-=-=-
First: Yes, I hope they will be very confident---beats the hell out of
lacking confidence, wouldn't you say?
Second: Their disappointments won't come from NOT trying.
Third: "Dealing" with it and "Doing" something about it are two
completely different things. Mine will be/are DOERS.
Fourth: NO one is "completely happy." We can choose to be joyful, and
we can choose to find joy in what we have and in what we're seeking. We
can choose to enjoy the journey. Crying every night because we haven't
put forth the effort will never make someone happy either. But going
after what we love because we LOVE is can be joyful and inspiring.
Go sing!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: solelokuai@...
I simply said that I didn't have any help from my parents – neither
to just "live" (financial support or something) nor to pursue my
dreams. Actually, they had a lot of money at the time and I wanted to
study music. To study music, I had to, by the curriculum of the
university, perform a piece on a piano. I asked piano teachers if it
would be possible to learn a piece good enough in half a year as to
perform and get accepted. It was possible and many people do it this
way, they said. I asked my parents for piano lessons at the time but
they said it wasn't the right choice for me and it was stupid to
think I could pursue a musical career because "all good musicians
start at 3 years old" or something like that. They didn't believe in
me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
-=-=-=-=-
So---back to the original question: "Should I always get what I want?"
How did your parents' way get you what you want? How's that working out
for you?
-=-=-=-=-
to pay singing lessons.
-=-=-=-
Screw the singing lessons---go SING!
-==-=-=-
I don't quite understand your issue with blaming the parents. Of
course, if you as a parent GIVE free choice, then nobody can blame
you. If the parents DON'T GIVE free choice and are rather your
enemies, putting stones in your way, how could I not blame them?
-=-=-=-=-
Parents can help or hinder. Your hindered. Mine helped. Who has the
better mind-set?
I think that blame should be short-lived. Disinterested/hindering
parents certainly deserve blame---I think that a parent's contributions
can be HUGE! And a aprenat who doesn't contribute at all is at fault.
That's why I choose to be my children's facilitator as much as humanly
possible.
But after a few years out on your own, it's time to take responsibility
for your *own* actions---or INactions.
-=-===-=-
And anyway, I wasn't blaming them – I was just trying to explain the
situation I was it, and show how badly I wanted to sing, that I even
did a shitty job I hated for it, and this in the context of "bad
times" cause I wasn't financially supported by my parents.
-=-=-==-=-
But that's history---what are you dong about it NOW?
We can sit and stew about how bad our parents were. And we can whine
about how we've turned out. And we can blame our parents for not being
there for us.
We can choose to heal ourselves and become what we always wanted of
ourselves---AND we can choose to be the parents we wished we'd had.
-=-=-=-=
My mother also says she's not responsible for my feelings. So if she
ever treats me bad, and I feel bad – it's not her fault, since it's
"up to me" if I feel bad!! Good logic! This way you are never guilty
and never wrong with what you do, then you never have to change
anything even if you hurt other people! And I'm never allowed to
blame her? Hm, maybe you could explain, because I don't really
understand, or I'm thinking really wrong :-) I'm up to be convinced!
-=-=-=-=-=-
If she makes a habit of making you feel bad, whose fault is THAT? I
mean---you don't have to live with her any more---and you don't have to
take her shit. At this point, you're CHOOSING to!
I'd tell that that she is right---she's not responsible. *I* am. And
because my feelings are important to me, I'll choose not to spend time
with those who hurt my feelings. She can choose whether to say hurtful
things or not---but YOU are choosing whether to put yourself in that
position. If the situation remains like this---THEN who's to blame?
You can blame her all you want, and you will always be her child. But
you are not living under her roof any more. And if you are not willing
to allow her to hurt you, YOU are the one with the power---not her.
It's YOUR choice!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: solelokuai@...
I simply said that I didn't have any help from my parents – neither
to just "live" (financial support or something) nor to pursue my
dreams. Actually, they had a lot of money at the time and I wanted to
study music. To study music, I had to, by the curriculum of the
university, perform a piece on a piano. I asked piano teachers if it
would be possible to learn a piece good enough in half a year as to
perform and get accepted. It was possible and many people do it this
way, they said. I asked my parents for piano lessons at the time but
they said it wasn't the right choice for me and it was stupid to
think I could pursue a musical career because "all good musicians
start at 3 years old" or something like that. They didn't believe in
me and still don't do (ever since I'm nervous when I am to sing in
front of them (Christmas etc.), a vicious cycle: I know I will be
nervous and being nervous my voice won't be as good and then again I
will not be able to "prove it" and then I get more nervous and of
course I sing badly....) and well, I couldn't do it at the time.
-=-=-=-=-
So---back to the original question: "Should I always get what I want?"
How did your parents' way get you what you want? How's that working out
for you?
-=-=-=-=-
to pay singing lessons.
-=-=-=-
Screw the singing lessons---go SING!
-==-=-=-
I don't quite understand your issue with blaming the parents. Of
course, if you as a parent GIVE free choice, then nobody can blame
you. If the parents DON'T GIVE free choice and are rather your
enemies, putting stones in your way, how could I not blame them?
-=-=-=-=-
Parents can help or hinder. Your hindered. Mine helped. Who has the
better mind-set?
I think that blame should be short-lived. Disinterested/hindering
parents certainly deserve blame---I think that a parent's contributions
can be HUGE! And a aprenat who doesn't contribute at all is at fault.
That's why I choose to be my children's facilitator as much as humanly
possible.
But after a few years out on your own, it's time to take responsibility
for your *own* actions---or INactions.
-=-===-=-
And anyway, I wasn't blaming them – I was just trying to explain the
situation I was it, and show how badly I wanted to sing, that I even
did a shitty job I hated for it, and this in the context of "bad
times" cause I wasn't financially supported by my parents.
-=-=-==-=-
But that's history---what are you dong about it NOW?
We can sit and stew about how bad our parents were. And we can whine
about how we've turned out. And we can blame our parents for not being
there for us.
We can choose to heal ourselves and become what we always wanted of
ourselves---AND we can choose to be the parents we wished we'd had.
-=-=-=-=
My mother also says she's not responsible for my feelings. So if she
ever treats me bad, and I feel bad – it's not her fault, since it's
"up to me" if I feel bad!! Good logic! This way you are never guilty
and never wrong with what you do, then you never have to change
anything even if you hurt other people! And I'm never allowed to
blame her? Hm, maybe you could explain, because I don't really
understand, or I'm thinking really wrong :-) I'm up to be convinced!
-=-=-=-=-=-
If she makes a habit of making you feel bad, whose fault is THAT? I
mean---you don't have to live with her any more---and you don't have to
take her shit. At this point, you're CHOOSING to!
I'd tell that that she is right---she's not responsible. *I* am. And
because my feelings are important to me, I'll choose not to spend time
with those who hurt my feelings. She can choose whether to say hurtful
things or not---but YOU are choosing whether to put yourself in that
position. If the situation remains like this---THEN who's to blame?
You can blame her all you want, and you will always be her child. But
you are not living under her roof any more. And if you are not willing
to allow her to hurt you, YOU are the one with the power---not her.
It's YOUR choice!
~Kelly
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-----Original Message-----
From: solelokuai@...
How do you ever get things done for yourself? Maybe it's easier for
you when you do things that don't require really quiet moments. For
recording, good recording, it needs to be really quiet.
-=-=-=-
I know you don't think so, but you really are just making excuses.
Having *liitle* children can make it difficult---sometime almost
impossible---but it *can* be done with creative thinking.
Trade a homemade soup (simmering while you practice/record) for child
care with an elderly neighbor.
Trade Spanish lessons with a 14 year old for child care.
Include the kids in the singing/playing---maracas/children's voices.
Sind & play at the park---out LOUD, while your children play---set out
a hat to accept donations! <G>
Offer to sing at nearby kindergartens. Wear silly costumes. Make up
children's songs---Raffi had to start *somewhere*! <g>
Think outside the box---you don't need lessons---you need to sing. Sing
all day. Every day.
~Kelly
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From: solelokuai@...
How do you ever get things done for yourself? Maybe it's easier for
you when you do things that don't require really quiet moments. For
recording, good recording, it needs to be really quiet.
-=-=-=-
I know you don't think so, but you really are just making excuses.
Having *liitle* children can make it difficult---sometime almost
impossible---but it *can* be done with creative thinking.
Trade a homemade soup (simmering while you practice/record) for child
care with an elderly neighbor.
Trade Spanish lessons with a 14 year old for child care.
Include the kids in the singing/playing---maracas/children's voices.
Sind & play at the park---out LOUD, while your children play---set out
a hat to accept donations! <G>
Offer to sing at nearby kindergartens. Wear silly costumes. Make up
children's songs---Raffi had to start *somewhere*! <g>
Think outside the box---you don't need lessons---you need to sing. Sing
all day. Every day.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
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Solé
OK, but I did sing at Christmas! ;-P
Am 02.10.2006 um 22:03 schrieb kbcdlovejo@...:
Am 02.10.2006 um 22:03 schrieb kbcdlovejo@...:
> Think outside the box---you don't need lessons---you need to sing.
> Sing
> all day. Every day.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: vickisue_gray@...
I have two
teenager girls that I have talked extensively to. I highly recommend
they
pursue higher education. Strive for their dreams. But am I to continue
to feed
and house them if they chose to not pursue a life in their adulthood?
-=-=-=-
And your options to continuing to house and feed them would be...?
How does one not pursue a life in adulthood?
What does that mean?
-=-=--=-=-=
If she chooses not to follow through nor do any research for herself,
should I
continue to carry her? There comes a point that one makes choices for
oneself.
-=-=-=-=-
And so---what would you do? Change the locks? Move with no forwarding
address?
I would hope that unschoolers would be making choices for themselves
too---but do you have a specific *point* in mind???
Eighteen? Twenty-five? Thirty-three? Nine??? I mean---what's this magic
"point" at which someone makes his own choices?
~Kelly
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From: vickisue_gray@...
I have two
teenager girls that I have talked extensively to. I highly recommend
they
pursue higher education. Strive for their dreams. But am I to continue
to feed
and house them if they chose to not pursue a life in their adulthood?
-=-=-=-
And your options to continuing to house and feed them would be...?
How does one not pursue a life in adulthood?
What does that mean?
-=-=--=-=-=
If she chooses not to follow through nor do any research for herself,
should I
continue to carry her? There comes a point that one makes choices for
oneself.
-=-=-=-=-
And so---what would you do? Change the locks? Move with no forwarding
address?
I would hope that unschoolers would be making choices for themselves
too---but do you have a specific *point* in mind???
Eighteen? Twenty-five? Thirty-three? Nine??? I mean---what's this magic
"point" at which someone makes his own choices?
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
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