Divorce or separation and unschooling...
Lesa ODaniel
Okay... Just throwing this out there because I'm having some strange
thoughts lately regarding my marriage and don't want to feel "stuck" in it
simply because we have a child together (I personally don't think it's
healthy to have a poor mom-dad relationship as a model)...
At the risk of appearing to be asking for life advice, I'm throwing this out
there...
Are there any possibilities for continuing to unschool with
separated/divorced parents? I'm thinking of some options (whereby I would
still take care of my son during the day and he would be with dad at night
and we could alternate being with him on the weekends, etc., etc.) but I'm
wondering if any of you have successfully mixed families and/or split
families while still helping your child/ren along the transition as smoothly
as possible.
**Nothing has happened yet. It's all still in my head and is the strangest
set of thoughts I have ever had. I'd like any responses to focus on
maintaining the well-being of the child (2.5 years old) - if any of you have
been through this, was there any fall-out? Dad and I are not fighting and
really have no disharmony in the house whatsoever. It's all happening inside
me...
Sorry for the strangely vague post. Having a weird night and a million
thoughts bouncing around my head. Thanks for any wisdom.
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
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thoughts lately regarding my marriage and don't want to feel "stuck" in it
simply because we have a child together (I personally don't think it's
healthy to have a poor mom-dad relationship as a model)...
At the risk of appearing to be asking for life advice, I'm throwing this out
there...
Are there any possibilities for continuing to unschool with
separated/divorced parents? I'm thinking of some options (whereby I would
still take care of my son during the day and he would be with dad at night
and we could alternate being with him on the weekends, etc., etc.) but I'm
wondering if any of you have successfully mixed families and/or split
families while still helping your child/ren along the transition as smoothly
as possible.
**Nothing has happened yet. It's all still in my head and is the strangest
set of thoughts I have ever had. I'd like any responses to focus on
maintaining the well-being of the child (2.5 years old) - if any of you have
been through this, was there any fall-out? Dad and I are not fighting and
really have no disharmony in the house whatsoever. It's all happening inside
me...
Sorry for the strangely vague post. Having a weird night and a million
thoughts bouncing around my head. Thanks for any wisdom.
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
_________________________________________________________________
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 29, 2006, at 2:29 AM, Lesa ODaniel wrote:
There's also the possibility you'll get hit by a meteor. Perhaps the
possibilities are nearly equal.
I think what's useful is to picture the worst (and far more likely)
scenario where you need to deal with an ex-spouse who is angry and
uncooperative because he's hurt, a new wife who disagrees with every
philosophy you hold dear and wants to undermine everything you try to
do to punish you for having hurt the man she loves, a job to support
yourself that pays too little and takes too many hours so you can't
be with your child during the day and are too tired when you can, and
a judge that orders the child be placed in school.
*Is* that better than what you have right now?
There was a really good discussion with lots of helpful advice on
UnschoolingDiscussion:
http://tinyurl.com/mc7as
I'll put the best advice here:
http://www.retrouvaille.org/
It's free. It's not just for Catholics (or even Christians.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Are there any possibilities for continuing to unschool withSure.
> separated/divorced parents?
There's also the possibility you'll get hit by a meteor. Perhaps the
possibilities are nearly equal.
I think what's useful is to picture the worst (and far more likely)
scenario where you need to deal with an ex-spouse who is angry and
uncooperative because he's hurt, a new wife who disagrees with every
philosophy you hold dear and wants to undermine everything you try to
do to punish you for having hurt the man she loves, a job to support
yourself that pays too little and takes too many hours so you can't
be with your child during the day and are too tired when you can, and
a judge that orders the child be placed in school.
*Is* that better than what you have right now?
There was a really good discussion with lots of helpful advice on
UnschoolingDiscussion:
http://tinyurl.com/mc7as
I'll put the best advice here:
http://www.retrouvaille.org/
It's free. It's not just for Catholics (or even Christians.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
I just wanted to comment on this paragraph. From my observations, in
our family and in those of my friends, it's very very common for
people to feel this way at some point in their marriage. The 'seven
year' itch may not go on that time period, but it's a fact that they
occur. Let's see, quote "The first decline, Kurdek says, is probably
a normal adjustment to new roles; the second decline is often related
to the birth of children. Couples experiencing the seven year itch
disagree with each other more, become less affectionate, share fewer
activities, and express overall dissatisfaction with their marriages,
says Kurdek, whose study was published in the September 1999 issue of
the journal Developmental Psychology." unquote. I wanted to say that
up front, just because it seems to be an issue hardly ever addressed,
and I would dislike to see anyone make a huge life change based on
odd emotions that they think are unusual (or unacceptable). It wasn't
that long ago when I looked at my husband one day and had no idea who
he was, even his appearances seemed foreign to me. It would have been
(relatively) easy emotionally to leave him right then (and I say
relative because I knew that life after divorce is very hard, and
because emotions change, and I'd have kids who were struggling).
As a child of divorced parents, I can assure you there is a lot of
fall-out. As Ren mentioned your husband may feel betrayed and
deserted. Your son may grow up wondering (no matter how amicable) if
it was something he did. You may regret it some day, but the
relationship with your husband will never be the same. There are new
people on each side of the equation, and everyone needs something.
There are new houses for your son to adjust to, there are friends who
feel like they have to choose sides, there are inlaws you may lose
the friendship of. Just me saying to my husband some of the things I
was thinking, changed our relationship (and not for the better
initially). We've spent the better part of the six months courting
each other again and trying to build a new connection. And in
hindsight, it's funny to me, because what it took was putting the
same attention to my husband and my marriage as I do the kids. It's
quite easy, when the kids are young, to legitimize putting all your
attention and energy on them, but marriage is like a young child too.
The L&L conference was rather like a honeymoon for us, to celebrate
rebuilding our relationship, and our new lives as unschoolers.
I think Sandra was the one who mentioned abusive relationships. I
would never say to stick it out to someone who was in a violent
relationship and therapy was not an option. But I would encourage you
to look at why you are having strange thoughts, what exactly your
heart is asking for, and try to figure out how to get it from your
husband. Give HIM what you need, and trust that it will come back to
you, because if you're feeling this way, he's probably picking up on it.
And this got longer than I thought. Sorry!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
our family and in those of my friends, it's very very common for
people to feel this way at some point in their marriage. The 'seven
year' itch may not go on that time period, but it's a fact that they
occur. Let's see, quote "The first decline, Kurdek says, is probably
a normal adjustment to new roles; the second decline is often related
to the birth of children. Couples experiencing the seven year itch
disagree with each other more, become less affectionate, share fewer
activities, and express overall dissatisfaction with their marriages,
says Kurdek, whose study was published in the September 1999 issue of
the journal Developmental Psychology." unquote. I wanted to say that
up front, just because it seems to be an issue hardly ever addressed,
and I would dislike to see anyone make a huge life change based on
odd emotions that they think are unusual (or unacceptable). It wasn't
that long ago when I looked at my husband one day and had no idea who
he was, even his appearances seemed foreign to me. It would have been
(relatively) easy emotionally to leave him right then (and I say
relative because I knew that life after divorce is very hard, and
because emotions change, and I'd have kids who were struggling).
As a child of divorced parents, I can assure you there is a lot of
fall-out. As Ren mentioned your husband may feel betrayed and
deserted. Your son may grow up wondering (no matter how amicable) if
it was something he did. You may regret it some day, but the
relationship with your husband will never be the same. There are new
people on each side of the equation, and everyone needs something.
There are new houses for your son to adjust to, there are friends who
feel like they have to choose sides, there are inlaws you may lose
the friendship of. Just me saying to my husband some of the things I
was thinking, changed our relationship (and not for the better
initially). We've spent the better part of the six months courting
each other again and trying to build a new connection. And in
hindsight, it's funny to me, because what it took was putting the
same attention to my husband and my marriage as I do the kids. It's
quite easy, when the kids are young, to legitimize putting all your
attention and energy on them, but marriage is like a young child too.
The L&L conference was rather like a honeymoon for us, to celebrate
rebuilding our relationship, and our new lives as unschoolers.
I think Sandra was the one who mentioned abusive relationships. I
would never say to stick it out to someone who was in a violent
relationship and therapy was not an option. But I would encourage you
to look at why you are having strange thoughts, what exactly your
heart is asking for, and try to figure out how to get it from your
husband. Give HIM what you need, and trust that it will come back to
you, because if you're feeling this way, he's probably picking up on it.
And this got longer than I thought. Sorry!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Sep 29, 2006, at 1:29 AM, Lesa ODaniel wrote:
> **Nothing has happened yet. It's all still in my head and is the
> strangest
> set of thoughts I have ever had. I'd like any responses to focus on
> maintaining the well-being of the child (2.5 years old) - if any of
> you have
> been through this, was there any fall-out? Dad and I are not
> fighting and
> really have no disharmony in the house whatsoever. It's all
> happening inside
> me...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 9/29/06, Lesa ODaniel <lesaodaniel@...> wrote:
and I was fairly new to home and unschooling. Now that I am older :-)
I can see how different scenarios would have worked for me to have
protected my children from that horrible year of schooling that they
did when their father and I were living seperately.
My story and situation: I am a "happily divorced" lesbian living with
her ex-husband and best friend (one in the same). We seperated and
divorced 3 years ago when we were trying to figure out our identities
in the face of my coming out and he was not dealing well with my (now
ex) girlfriend. That lasted for a whole 6 months when we realized
that neither of us wanted to be the "every other weekend parent." We
were also spending a lot of time together because we wanted to both be
involved in our children's lives. He would come over every weekend to
do laundry (I took the washer and dryer) and have dinner with us or
come over for some activity that was happening at the kids' school or
some other function that we were doing (art fairs, music concerts,
days at the beach, etc.) Finally we realized that we were paying
twice the rent, twice the utilities and twice the insurance, so we
bought a house together with 5 bedrooms (one for each person) and have
lived this way for 2.5 years. I think the important thing is that we
*are* friends and care deeply for each other and each other's
welfares. We both want to be involved in the children's lives and we
both know that co-habitating allows us to better meet the needs of our
unschooling children. We also both know that as the kids get older
that we may decide to move on. The other thing that we agreed on was
that we didn't want other people to tear this odd little family apart.
That whoever we met that we wanted to have a relationship with would
have to be absorbable into this family not divide this family up (at
least for now). A while back Dan was dating someone seriously and we
talked about her moving in. When she realized that we were serious
that Dan wouldn't be moving out nor would I she just couldn't come to
terms with sharing a home with another female, so they broke up.
When we first started this venture we felt like we were the only ones
that were in this unique situation, but since then we have met others
who have similar stories. For whatever reasons lovers fell out of
love, but not with their children and their desire to be active and
participating parents was important enough for them to divorce and
still live together for the children. I think it really helps
(especially in our situation) to have that divorce (although legally
we remarried so I could be added back on his insurance as his company
does not provide for domestic partner benefits and it eased all the
issues about end of life questions and other legal issues - but to us
it is just a piece of paper saying that it gives us those legal
issues, it isn't a marriage, just a co-parentship :) ) OK, it is
strange, but it works for us because we want it to.
Hopefully you can find peace in your relationship in one way or
another. I know now that if something were to happen to Dan and he
either went bonkers and left or died that I would be able to continue
unschooling without him. In fact I think it would be better and
easier on the children than being thrust into such an unhealthy
environment that the public schools have to offer.
Michelle
> Okay... Just throwing this out there because I'm having some strangeI used to think not, but that was when my children were much younger
> thoughts lately regarding my marriage and don't want to feel "stuck" in it
> simply because we have a child together (I personally don't think it's
> healthy to have a poor mom-dad relationship as a model)...
>
and I was fairly new to home and unschooling. Now that I am older :-)
I can see how different scenarios would have worked for me to have
protected my children from that horrible year of schooling that they
did when their father and I were living seperately.
My story and situation: I am a "happily divorced" lesbian living with
her ex-husband and best friend (one in the same). We seperated and
divorced 3 years ago when we were trying to figure out our identities
in the face of my coming out and he was not dealing well with my (now
ex) girlfriend. That lasted for a whole 6 months when we realized
that neither of us wanted to be the "every other weekend parent." We
were also spending a lot of time together because we wanted to both be
involved in our children's lives. He would come over every weekend to
do laundry (I took the washer and dryer) and have dinner with us or
come over for some activity that was happening at the kids' school or
some other function that we were doing (art fairs, music concerts,
days at the beach, etc.) Finally we realized that we were paying
twice the rent, twice the utilities and twice the insurance, so we
bought a house together with 5 bedrooms (one for each person) and have
lived this way for 2.5 years. I think the important thing is that we
*are* friends and care deeply for each other and each other's
welfares. We both want to be involved in the children's lives and we
both know that co-habitating allows us to better meet the needs of our
unschooling children. We also both know that as the kids get older
that we may decide to move on. The other thing that we agreed on was
that we didn't want other people to tear this odd little family apart.
That whoever we met that we wanted to have a relationship with would
have to be absorbable into this family not divide this family up (at
least for now). A while back Dan was dating someone seriously and we
talked about her moving in. When she realized that we were serious
that Dan wouldn't be moving out nor would I she just couldn't come to
terms with sharing a home with another female, so they broke up.
When we first started this venture we felt like we were the only ones
that were in this unique situation, but since then we have met others
who have similar stories. For whatever reasons lovers fell out of
love, but not with their children and their desire to be active and
participating parents was important enough for them to divorce and
still live together for the children. I think it really helps
(especially in our situation) to have that divorce (although legally
we remarried so I could be added back on his insurance as his company
does not provide for domestic partner benefits and it eased all the
issues about end of life questions and other legal issues - but to us
it is just a piece of paper saying that it gives us those legal
issues, it isn't a marriage, just a co-parentship :) ) OK, it is
strange, but it works for us because we want it to.
Hopefully you can find peace in your relationship in one way or
another. I know now that if something were to happen to Dan and he
either went bonkers and left or died that I would be able to continue
unschooling without him. In fact I think it would be better and
easier on the children than being thrust into such an unhealthy
environment that the public schools have to offer.
Michelle
Lesa ODaniel
<<Michelle wrote:
When we first started this venture we felt like we were the only ones that
were in this unique situation, but since then we have met others who have
similar stories. For whatever reasons lovers fell out of love, but not with
their children and their desire to be active and participating parents was
important enough for them to divorce and still live together for the
children. I think it really helps (especially in our situation) to have
that divorce (although legally we remarried so I could be added back on his
insurance as his company does not provide for domestic partner benefits and
it eased all the issues about end of life questions and other legal issues -
but to us it is just a piece of paper saying that it gives us those legal
issues, it isn't a marriage, just a co-parentship :) ) OK, it is
strange, but it works for us because we want it to.>>
**Michelle, your post gives me hope. Yes, I am having strange feelings and
thoughts of "throwing it all away" but I should mention that they didn't
just start yesterday. In fact, I think I've let them go on for too long. We
have been together for 15 years and I think it might have been over before
we decided to have our son, I'm sad to say.
I am trying to keep this less about the marriage, though, and more about the
unschooling possibilities since I would like to try and stay as on-topic as
possible for the benefits of the list.
I like your tale of your "odd" little family. There are ways it can work, I
think, as long as the parents stay mature and keep focused on the benefits
of the child/ren. My husband is a great husband and he's a wonderful father
devoted to unschooling. It's just that he would be a great husband for
someone else. I am very confident that he would work with me on a scenario
that could allow us to still unschool and keep our son as happy as possible.
I think it doesn't have to be so black and white. Of course, I haven't
spoken about this with him so I have no idea how he will react or how mature
he will want to be... Thanks for your story.
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
When we first started this venture we felt like we were the only ones that
were in this unique situation, but since then we have met others who have
similar stories. For whatever reasons lovers fell out of love, but not with
their children and their desire to be active and participating parents was
important enough for them to divorce and still live together for the
children. I think it really helps (especially in our situation) to have
that divorce (although legally we remarried so I could be added back on his
insurance as his company does not provide for domestic partner benefits and
it eased all the issues about end of life questions and other legal issues -
but to us it is just a piece of paper saying that it gives us those legal
issues, it isn't a marriage, just a co-parentship :) ) OK, it is
strange, but it works for us because we want it to.>>
**Michelle, your post gives me hope. Yes, I am having strange feelings and
thoughts of "throwing it all away" but I should mention that they didn't
just start yesterday. In fact, I think I've let them go on for too long. We
have been together for 15 years and I think it might have been over before
we decided to have our son, I'm sad to say.
I am trying to keep this less about the marriage, though, and more about the
unschooling possibilities since I would like to try and stay as on-topic as
possible for the benefits of the list.
I like your tale of your "odd" little family. There are ways it can work, I
think, as long as the parents stay mature and keep focused on the benefits
of the child/ren. My husband is a great husband and he's a wonderful father
devoted to unschooling. It's just that he would be a great husband for
someone else. I am very confident that he would work with me on a scenario
that could allow us to still unschool and keep our son as happy as possible.
I think it doesn't have to be so black and white. Of course, I haven't
spoken about this with him so I have no idea how he will react or how mature
he will want to be... Thanks for your story.
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 9/29/06, Lesa ODaniel <lesaodaniel@...> wrote:
faced with divorce. I've had 3 friends in the past 5 years who have
divorced their husbands, who I found to be logical, intelligent, and
thoughtful husbands turn into vindictive, angry, illogical @$$es when
asked for divorces. I did have one friend who divorced who was
homeschooling and her now ex was at least supportive of their children
continuing to homeschool. They worked through their divorce through
an mediator rather than going at it with the courts. They agreed to
certain things so that when they did go in front of the judge for the
final decree they were seen as parents who were working together and
in agreement rather than fighting about nit picky little things. You
would have to know how your dh would hand it. Un/homeschooling can
continue *if* the other parent will still be cooperative. I had
another friend who lost the right to homeschool even though her ex was
supportive when they were married. When they divorced he suddenly was
opposed to homeschooling. Not because he truly opposed it but it was
his way to be vindictive. :( It was all about him and not about the
children. :((((((
Michelle
> Of course, I haven'tYes, do be careful! I've been amazed at how "weird" some men get when
> spoken about this with him so I have no idea how he will react or how mature
> he will want to be... Thanks for your story.
>
faced with divorce. I've had 3 friends in the past 5 years who have
divorced their husbands, who I found to be logical, intelligent, and
thoughtful husbands turn into vindictive, angry, illogical @$$es when
asked for divorces. I did have one friend who divorced who was
homeschooling and her now ex was at least supportive of their children
continuing to homeschool. They worked through their divorce through
an mediator rather than going at it with the courts. They agreed to
certain things so that when they did go in front of the judge for the
final decree they were seen as parents who were working together and
in agreement rather than fighting about nit picky little things. You
would have to know how your dh would hand it. Un/homeschooling can
continue *if* the other parent will still be cooperative. I had
another friend who lost the right to homeschool even though her ex was
supportive when they were married. When they divorced he suddenly was
opposed to homeschooling. Not because he truly opposed it but it was
his way to be vindictive. :( It was all about him and not about the
children. :((((((
Michelle
Schafer Vanessa
Michelle,
I loved hearing your story. Me and my husband are not
divorced, but I love to see how unschooling works with
other families. It is really neat that you and your
ex-hubby found a way to make things work for
yourselves and your kids. Good luck to both of you.
---Vanessa
--- Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...>
wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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I loved hearing your story. Me and my husband are not
divorced, but I love to see how unschooling works with
other families. It is really neat that you and your
ex-hubby found a way to make things work for
yourselves and your kids. Good luck to both of you.
---Vanessa
--- Michelle Leifur Reid <pamperedmichelle@...>
wrote:
> On 9/29/06, Lesa ODaniel <lesaodaniel@...>Vanessa
> wrote:
> > Okay... Just throwing this out there because I'm
> having some strange
> > thoughts lately regarding my marriage and don't
> want to feel "stuck" in it
> > simply because we have a child together (I
> personally don't think it's
> > healthy to have a poor mom-dad relationship as a
> model)...
> >
>
> I used to think not, but that was when my children
> were much younger
> and I was fairly new to home and unschooling. Now
> that I am older :-)
> I can see how different scenarios would have worked
> for me to have
> protected my children from that horrible year of
> schooling that they
> did when their father and I were living seperately.
>
> My story and situation: I am a "happily divorced"
> lesbian living with
> her ex-husband and best friend (one in the same).
> We seperated and
> divorced 3 years ago when we were trying to figure
> out our identities
> in the face of my coming out and he was not dealing
> well with my (now
> ex) girlfriend. That lasted for a whole 6 months
> when we realized
> that neither of us wanted to be the "every other
> weekend parent." We
> were also spending a lot of time together because we
> wanted to both be
> involved in our children's lives. He would come
> over every weekend to
> do laundry (I took the washer and dryer) and have
> dinner with us or
> come over for some activity that was happening at
> the kids' school or
> some other function that we were doing (art fairs,
> music concerts,
> days at the beach, etc.) Finally we realized that
> we were paying
> twice the rent, twice the utilities and twice the
> insurance, so we
> bought a house together with 5 bedrooms (one for
> each person) and have
> lived this way for 2.5 years. I think the important
> thing is that we
> *are* friends and care deeply for each other and
> each other's
> welfares. We both want to be involved in the
> children's lives and we
> both know that co-habitating allows us to better
> meet the needs of our
> unschooling children. We also both know that as the
> kids get older
> that we may decide to move on. The other thing that
> we agreed on was
> that we didn't want other people to tear this odd
> little family apart.
> That whoever we met that we wanted to have a
> relationship with would
> have to be absorbable into this family not divide
> this family up (at
> least for now). A while back Dan was dating someone
> seriously and we
> talked about her moving in. When she realized that
> we were serious
> that Dan wouldn't be moving out nor would I she just
> couldn't come to
> terms with sharing a home with another female, so
> they broke up.
>
> When we first started this venture we felt like we
> were the only ones
> that were in this unique situation, but since then
> we have met others
> who have similar stories. For whatever reasons
> lovers fell out of
> love, but not with their children and their desire
> to be active and
> participating parents was important enough for them
> to divorce and
> still live together for the children. I think it
> really helps
> (especially in our situation) to have that divorce
> (although legally
> we remarried so I could be added back on his
> insurance as his company
> does not provide for domestic partner benefits and
> it eased all the
> issues about end of life questions and other legal
> issues - but to us
> it is just a piece of paper saying that it gives us
> those legal
> issues, it isn't a marriage, just a co-parentship :)
> ) OK, it is
> strange, but it works for us because we want it to.
>
> Hopefully you can find peace in your relationship in
> one way or
> another. I know now that if something were to
> happen to Dan and he
> either went bonkers and left or died that I would be
> able to continue
> unschooling without him. In fact I think it would
> be better and
> easier on the children than being thrust into such
> an unhealthy
> environment that the public schools have to offer.
>
> Michelle
>
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