research
natalijoi
Hey, folks. I am a lurker. I have been on this group list for awhile,
but I don't have a computer currently, so I am just kindof dipping in
every once in awhile. My name is Natalie, I am a single stay at home
mom of two boys, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. We have always been
unschoolers but just became aware of it in the past year! :) I go to
school full time (which is only 13 hours a week, and we have an
unschooling family who belongs to this group, actually, that they go
and play with for that time) I have a super awesome professor for
english, he and his wife founded the local unschooling group and have
been unschooling for almost two decades ( or was it more than?) Our
class consists of one research paper that is graded as the final exam,
and I chose to do mine on unschooling. I have had some trouble
narrowing it down to one topic I can cover in 8-10 pages, but I think
I have got it. One of the questions I have had to answer about
unschooling is," If you let your children do whatever they want, won't
they just run over you? Run wild?" I think that this question is
rooted in alot of things, but mostly the societal fear of anarchy, and
the fear that people are inherently bad. So I would like to hear some
experiences of the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about
why it is that this freedom works for and not against us. If you don't
want to continue this as a discussion, you could certainly email a
response to natalijoi@.... And hello to everyone!! So glad this
group is here!
but I don't have a computer currently, so I am just kindof dipping in
every once in awhile. My name is Natalie, I am a single stay at home
mom of two boys, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. We have always been
unschoolers but just became aware of it in the past year! :) I go to
school full time (which is only 13 hours a week, and we have an
unschooling family who belongs to this group, actually, that they go
and play with for that time) I have a super awesome professor for
english, he and his wife founded the local unschooling group and have
been unschooling for almost two decades ( or was it more than?) Our
class consists of one research paper that is graded as the final exam,
and I chose to do mine on unschooling. I have had some trouble
narrowing it down to one topic I can cover in 8-10 pages, but I think
I have got it. One of the questions I have had to answer about
unschooling is," If you let your children do whatever they want, won't
they just run over you? Run wild?" I think that this question is
rooted in alot of things, but mostly the societal fear of anarchy, and
the fear that people are inherently bad. So I would like to hear some
experiences of the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about
why it is that this freedom works for and not against us. If you don't
want to continue this as a discussion, you could certainly email a
response to natalijoi@.... And hello to everyone!! So glad this
group is here!
Vickisue Gray
Hey Natalie,
Interesting subject to try to keep to 8-10 pages, lol. I'm new to the group so should probably keep my mouth shut. I guess I actually do a combination of styles, mostly unschooling, but with my son (8) it's easy. We started this year (first official full year of HS) trying to follow the pre-printed guidelines. Lol, that lasted like....not even a day? Who wants to be chained to a desk for even one hour let alone four plus?
I say my son's easy because he reads at a very high level. His vocabulary is large. He's one of those kids, that if you explain it right, gets it. I love books so the house has always been filled with them. Recently, I find that to answer his questions, my A&P books from college are being pulled out. Glad I kept them.
Now, as for the "let them do whatever they want"....hummmm.
We live on a farm, so it has never been quite like that. Life has choices. Don't feed the pets, the pets die. Choice would fall more to WHEN to feed the pets, not IF. Never love your pony, don't get made when she doesn't want to come to you. (Happy to report all the pets are happy and well loved.)
School for us has fallen into the same mode. Surprisingly, my son's weakest subject, writing, has blossomed taking this approach. Instead of having him do the pre-scripted copy work he has no interest in, I just suggest he add a new chapter to his novel as I can't wait to hear what happens next. This technic is actually creating a novel! Well, that's my story. Hope it helps.
Vicki
natalijoi <natalijoi@...> wrote:
Hey, folks. I am a lurker. I have been on this group list for awhile,
but I don't have a computer currently, so I am just kindof dipping in
every once in awhile. My name is Natalie, I am a single stay at home
mom of two boys, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. We have always been
unschoolers but just became aware of it in the past year! :) I go to
school full time (which is only 13 hours a week, and we have an
unschooling family who belongs to this group, actually, that they go
and play with for that time) I have a super awesome professor for
english, he and his wife founded the local unschooling group and have
been unschooling for almost two decades ( or was it more than?) Our
class consists of one research paper that is graded as the final exam,
and I chose to do mine on unschooling. I have had some trouble
narrowing it down to one topic I can cover in 8-10 pages, but I think
I have got it. One of the questions I have had to answer about
unschooling is," If you let your children do whatever they want, won't
they just run over you? Run wild?" I think that this question is
rooted in alot of things, but mostly the societal fear of anarchy, and
the fear that people are inherently bad. So I would like to hear some
experiences of the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about
why it is that this freedom works for and not against us. If you don't
want to continue this as a discussion, you could certainly email a
response to natalijoi@.... And hello to everyone!! So glad this
group is here!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Interesting subject to try to keep to 8-10 pages, lol. I'm new to the group so should probably keep my mouth shut. I guess I actually do a combination of styles, mostly unschooling, but with my son (8) it's easy. We started this year (first official full year of HS) trying to follow the pre-printed guidelines. Lol, that lasted like....not even a day? Who wants to be chained to a desk for even one hour let alone four plus?
I say my son's easy because he reads at a very high level. His vocabulary is large. He's one of those kids, that if you explain it right, gets it. I love books so the house has always been filled with them. Recently, I find that to answer his questions, my A&P books from college are being pulled out. Glad I kept them.
Now, as for the "let them do whatever they want"....hummmm.
We live on a farm, so it has never been quite like that. Life has choices. Don't feed the pets, the pets die. Choice would fall more to WHEN to feed the pets, not IF. Never love your pony, don't get made when she doesn't want to come to you. (Happy to report all the pets are happy and well loved.)
School for us has fallen into the same mode. Surprisingly, my son's weakest subject, writing, has blossomed taking this approach. Instead of having him do the pre-scripted copy work he has no interest in, I just suggest he add a new chapter to his novel as I can't wait to hear what happens next. This technic is actually creating a novel! Well, that's my story. Hope it helps.
Vicki
natalijoi <natalijoi@...> wrote:
Hey, folks. I am a lurker. I have been on this group list for awhile,
but I don't have a computer currently, so I am just kindof dipping in
every once in awhile. My name is Natalie, I am a single stay at home
mom of two boys, Solstice, 8 and Ryan, 4. We have always been
unschoolers but just became aware of it in the past year! :) I go to
school full time (which is only 13 hours a week, and we have an
unschooling family who belongs to this group, actually, that they go
and play with for that time) I have a super awesome professor for
english, he and his wife founded the local unschooling group and have
been unschooling for almost two decades ( or was it more than?) Our
class consists of one research paper that is graded as the final exam,
and I chose to do mine on unschooling. I have had some trouble
narrowing it down to one topic I can cover in 8-10 pages, but I think
I have got it. One of the questions I have had to answer about
unschooling is," If you let your children do whatever they want, won't
they just run over you? Run wild?" I think that this question is
rooted in alot of things, but mostly the societal fear of anarchy, and
the fear that people are inherently bad. So I would like to hear some
experiences of the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about
why it is that this freedom works for and not against us. If you don't
want to continue this as a discussion, you could certainly email a
response to natalijoi@.... And hello to everyone!! So glad this
group is here!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 28, 2006, at 9:20 PM, natalijoi wrote:
there's no one to enforce the rules then, it's true, some kids do go
wild.
If there are no rules and parents aren't there -- too busy, don't
care, ineffectual (they say "Don't ... stop ..." but it's just a buzz
to the kids) -- to help kids understand the results of their actions,
kids are often nasty and wild.
It really all seems like the only thing that keeps chaos is check is
rules.
But what's lacking in all those typical parenting scenarios is
parental engagement, involvement and partnership. Rules make parents
feel like they're involved in their children's lives but really they
say "I don't like who you are. This is who I want you to be."
There's a huge difference between "do whatever you want" and being
there to help a child get what they want.
There's a huge difference between letting a child drain a mother dry
and being honest about our limitations, such as, "Let's put that on
the list for tomorrow because I've reached my limit." *And then
following through so the child knows the mom's word can be trusted.*
There's a huge difference between punishing a child for kicking and
punching another and, in order of effectiveness,:
1) being aware enough of the child's internal state to avoid normal
triggers (like hunger, excessive stiimulation, tiredness) that might
result in kicking and punching,
2) being aware enough of what's going on to defuse situations before
they get to the point of kicking and punching,
3) stopping kicking and punching, helping the injured child, help the
kids work out a better solution and/or fix what was wrong.
Rather than "No rules" a better way of stating it is being engaged
with our kids and helping them get what they want. Gaining their
trust that we're there to help them get what they want in life in
ways that are safe and respectful of others means there isn't a
reason to "Go wild".
I've written a lot about it at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
The stuff on the right is probably most relevant. Not sure if it can
easily be condensed into 8-10 pages ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> " If you let your children do whatever they want, won'tIf the rules are taken away or mom and dad leave for the weekend and
> they just run over you? Run wild?"
there's no one to enforce the rules then, it's true, some kids do go
wild.
If there are no rules and parents aren't there -- too busy, don't
care, ineffectual (they say "Don't ... stop ..." but it's just a buzz
to the kids) -- to help kids understand the results of their actions,
kids are often nasty and wild.
It really all seems like the only thing that keeps chaos is check is
rules.
But what's lacking in all those typical parenting scenarios is
parental engagement, involvement and partnership. Rules make parents
feel like they're involved in their children's lives but really they
say "I don't like who you are. This is who I want you to be."
There's a huge difference between "do whatever you want" and being
there to help a child get what they want.
There's a huge difference between letting a child drain a mother dry
and being honest about our limitations, such as, "Let's put that on
the list for tomorrow because I've reached my limit." *And then
following through so the child knows the mom's word can be trusted.*
There's a huge difference between punishing a child for kicking and
punching another and, in order of effectiveness,:
1) being aware enough of the child's internal state to avoid normal
triggers (like hunger, excessive stiimulation, tiredness) that might
result in kicking and punching,
2) being aware enough of what's going on to defuse situations before
they get to the point of kicking and punching,
3) stopping kicking and punching, helping the injured child, help the
kids work out a better solution and/or fix what was wrong.
Rather than "No rules" a better way of stating it is being engaged
with our kids and helping them get what they want. Gaining their
trust that we're there to help them get what they want in life in
ways that are safe and respectful of others means there isn't a
reason to "Go wild".
I've written a lot about it at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
The stuff on the right is probably most relevant. Not sure if it can
easily be condensed into 8-10 pages ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
We're new to unschooling, but I can say that I've lived it. The
radical unschooling DOES work, as long as the parent's are involved
and loving parts of the child's life. When I'm distracted, the little
ones have only one way to get my attention. I don't even see it as
running wild, it's a desperate call for attention.
I think one thing that was pointed out to me (over and over until I
got it) was that WHY do people assume the worst? If I don't *make* my
kids feed the animals, they would just LET THEM STARVE. If I don't
*make* them clean their rooms, they would get so dirty WE'D HAVE
ROACHES AND RATS eating out of them. Well, my arguments to those
would be, why would your kids let the animals starve? Because they
are 'malicious little brats' (which seems to be mainstreamers view),
or because they are still young enough they need reminders/assistance/
encouragement? I've seen my children forget over and over to feed the
animals, but when we sat down to dinner, they remembered that their
animal friends might be hungry too. Or just me asking when they were
fed last (because I wanted to know and do it myself, not to be nasty
and try to get them to do it) We're partners in the house, not
dominator and subjects. Same for their rooms. Cleaning is important
to me, but really, what's in it for the kids? Not much really, all it
means is to take time out of their play to put away the reminders of
fun they've had. When I clean their rooms as a gift, as a clean slate
for them to start their fun anew, it's an example to them of how it
can be okay. And about half the time, they join in because they want
to. When guests are coming over, and I say "Guy's, so-n-so will be
here soon, and I really need your help tidying rooms x, y, z, can you
help?" they jump on it because cleaning doesn't have the unpleasant
associations that it probably does for most of us.
I gotta go, i'm sure there was more to say, but I've got a 5yo and
3yo who need me to throw them on the bed to jump. :-) My parents
might say that they run wild, but really, what's the harm in it?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
radical unschooling DOES work, as long as the parent's are involved
and loving parts of the child's life. When I'm distracted, the little
ones have only one way to get my attention. I don't even see it as
running wild, it's a desperate call for attention.
I think one thing that was pointed out to me (over and over until I
got it) was that WHY do people assume the worst? If I don't *make* my
kids feed the animals, they would just LET THEM STARVE. If I don't
*make* them clean their rooms, they would get so dirty WE'D HAVE
ROACHES AND RATS eating out of them. Well, my arguments to those
would be, why would your kids let the animals starve? Because they
are 'malicious little brats' (which seems to be mainstreamers view),
or because they are still young enough they need reminders/assistance/
encouragement? I've seen my children forget over and over to feed the
animals, but when we sat down to dinner, they remembered that their
animal friends might be hungry too. Or just me asking when they were
fed last (because I wanted to know and do it myself, not to be nasty
and try to get them to do it) We're partners in the house, not
dominator and subjects. Same for their rooms. Cleaning is important
to me, but really, what's in it for the kids? Not much really, all it
means is to take time out of their play to put away the reminders of
fun they've had. When I clean their rooms as a gift, as a clean slate
for them to start their fun anew, it's an example to them of how it
can be okay. And about half the time, they join in because they want
to. When guests are coming over, and I say "Guy's, so-n-so will be
here soon, and I really need your help tidying rooms x, y, z, can you
help?" they jump on it because cleaning doesn't have the unpleasant
associations that it probably does for most of us.
I gotta go, i'm sure there was more to say, but I've got a 5yo and
3yo who need me to throw them on the bed to jump. :-) My parents
might say that they run wild, but really, what's the harm in it?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Sep 28, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Vickisue Gray wrote:
> So I would like to hear some
> experiences of the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about
> why it is that this freedom works for and not against us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 9/28/06, natalijoi <natalijoi@...> wrote:
question. Unschooling parents are mindful, present, interactive,
engaging. They aren't sitting on the sidelines waiting for their
children to cause chaos. Neglectful inattentive parents will have
children that "run wild" but unschooling mindful parents will be
running wildly with their children embracing all life has to offer!
Michelle
> ," If you let your children do whatever they want, won'tI don't see this as an unschooling question but more as a parenting
> they just run over you? Run wild?"
question. Unschooling parents are mindful, present, interactive,
engaging. They aren't sitting on the sidelines waiting for their
children to cause chaos. Neglectful inattentive parents will have
children that "run wild" but unschooling mindful parents will be
running wildly with their children embracing all life has to offer!
Michelle
Joanne
Hello Natalie...
Welcome. :-)
the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about why it is
that this freedom works for and not against us. >>>>>>
Let me tell you about my kids...
We adopted siblings...two girls and a boy. At the time of the
adoption they were 5, 8 & 11 and had been in foster care for four
years. These were children that had NO freedom and NO choice in
their lives. When my kids came to us, they had been limited and
controlled in every area of their lives. They had no "real life"
skills because they were never given the chance to choose for
themselves.
In the almost three years that we adopted them they have healed (and
continue to do so) and we have experienced many, many positive
effects from them having freedom over their lives.
My youngest just turned 8 last month and has complete control over
areas such as food, computer and playstation. It was a process
getting here...I started by saying yes more and more, talking with
her about the choices she was making and answering any questions
that she had honestly. My feeling is...if they're never given a
choice, how can they choose what's right?
I blog about our lives and our journey if you're interested. Here's
the link:
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
Welcome. :-)
>>>>If you let your children do whatever they want, won't they justrun over you? Run wild?"So I would like to hear some experiences of
the effects of freedom on children, some opinions about why it is
that this freedom works for and not against us. >>>>>>
Let me tell you about my kids...
We adopted siblings...two girls and a boy. At the time of the
adoption they were 5, 8 & 11 and had been in foster care for four
years. These were children that had NO freedom and NO choice in
their lives. When my kids came to us, they had been limited and
controlled in every area of their lives. They had no "real life"
skills because they were never given the chance to choose for
themselves.
In the almost three years that we adopted them they have healed (and
continue to do so) and we have experienced many, many positive
effects from them having freedom over their lives.
My youngest just turned 8 last month and has complete control over
areas such as food, computer and playstation. It was a process
getting here...I started by saying yes more and more, talking with
her about the choices she was making and answering any questions
that she had honestly. My feeling is...if they're never given a
choice, how can they choose what's right?
I blog about our lives and our journey if you're interested. Here's
the link:
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html