Ren Allen

"I did raise my voice at her and probably pushed it a bit too far,
but do you have any other suggestions on how to handle a situation
like this if it ever comes up again? "

As soon as the demand came along, I would have walked over and helped
her with the chair (or whatever she needed help with) and said "she's
busy playing right now, let's let her be".

If it still continues to escalate and my child was threatened
physically, I would pick up my child and leave immediately. I would
have said something along the lines of "we believe hitting people that
are vulnerable and defenseless is abusive and I won't let my children
be subjected to your abuse"

I would make my boundaries very clear and if they can't respect that,
then those people would not be part of my life. I choose to surround
myself with positive, uplifting and interesting people. The contact I
would have with anyone toxic would be minimal. It's hard enough for me
to be around parents that aren't super nice to their kids, I can't
imagine being around someone that was mean to my kids. ugh.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

"We have a "created family" which we built from friends who respect us."

I think when a person is ready to limit the toxic people in their
lives and search out positive individuals, they will find the right
people.

We've had a luxurious social network in the past, including single
friends that were extremely gentle/respectful to all children. My
friend Bonnie used to regularly invite Sierra over to visit and attend
plays or other functions. Sierra wasn't quite ready to do those things
without me at that time, so I tagged along. But she had this wonderful
relationship with an adult that was "created family". We've got a
friend that moved up here from P'cola with us, that is part of our
"created family".

We do have a very positive family on both sides fortunately, but they
all live so far away we still feel a need to develop close, personal
relationships with people that act as "aunties" and "uncles" to our
children.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Cara

> "We have a "created family" which we built from friends who respect
us."


This sounds so wonderful! I'd love to know if there are other
organizations that respect children so we can create our own family.

We live in an area in the South where children are expected to obey
and not mouth off. Even the liberal churches we have visited condone
spanking, etc.

We have had a very hard time even in the homeschool community - many
are very conservative and believe "spoil the rod" philosophy (my in-
laws for example).

Cara :)

Michelle Leifur Reid

> We live in an area in the South where children are expected to obey
> and not mouth off. Even the liberal churches we have visited condone
> spanking, etc.
>

Cara, have you looked into the Unitarian Universalist church?
http://www.uua.org I also believe that the United Church of Christ is
very supportive of gentle parenting (I have a few friends who attend
UCC churches and they would never think of spanking their children).
I believe the url is http://www.ucc.org While I have run into
individuals within the UU church who spanked their children, most UU's
that I know consider it the same as partner abuse and would never even
consider spanking as an option in parenting! Many of our "created
family" are made up of people we have met through the UU church.

Michelle

Vanessa

Cara,

I think leaving would've been a good idea, but as a mom, your first
instinct is to protect your child/children. In this case, I
probably would've done the same thing.

Although this is a tough situation, (I really don't get along with
my in-laws, for many reasons) I agree with what a lot of people are
suggesting. Maybe an email would help, but then staying away and
letting the situation die down a little wouldn't hurt.

I think things could've turned out different, if you MIL would've
asked for help, instead of demanding it, and the part about hitting
your child is just really uncalled for. My husband and I really
don't agree with spanking children. Our philosophy is that if we
are teaching our children not to hit, if we spank them, then we are
going against everything we are trying to teach. (I hope that makes
sense).

I our case my MIL said she was glad that we decided to homeschool
our children, but it was my mom that had a tough time. She is
finally starting to come around, but I think she is more old-
school. She worked in the school system for 29 years, and I think
has been through it/ seen it all.

My kids are still deschooling, and are doing so much more better,
than they would've been doing in school. They love homeschooling,
and are really enjoying it.

I really hope this situation gets resolved, whether it be from just
staying away, or talking to them, or emailing them. I don't have
the answer, but if you search your heart, you will know what to do.
Good luck.

----Vanessa






--- In [email protected], "Cara" <casonnier@...>
wrote:
>
> > "We have a "created family" which we built from friends who
respect
> us."
>
>
> This sounds so wonderful! I'd love to know if there are other
> organizations that respect children so we can create our own
family.
>
> We live in an area in the South where children are expected to
obey
> and not mouth off. Even the liberal churches we have visited
condone
> spanking, etc.
>
> We have had a very hard time even in the homeschool community -
many
> are very conservative and believe "spoil the rod" philosophy (my
in-
> laws for example).
>
> Cara :)
>

Lesa

Oh, and I wanted to ask the original poster... where was your DH when this
all was going on?

Lesa

-------Original Message-------

From: Vanessa
Date: 09/22/06 16:41:52
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Question on dealing with family

Cara,

I think leaving would've been a good idea, but as a mom, your first
instinct is to protect your child/children. In this case, I
probably would've done the same thing.

Although this is a tough situation, (I really don't get along with
my in-laws, for many reasons) I agree with what a lot of people are
suggesting. Maybe an email would help, but then staying away and
letting the situation die down a little wouldn't hurt.

I think things could've turned out different, if you MIL would've
asked for help, instead of demanding it, and the part about hitting
your child is just really uncalled for. My husband and I really
don't agree with spanking children. Our philosophy is that if we
are teaching our children not to hit, if we spank them, then we are
going against everything we are trying to teach. (I hope that makes
sense).

I our case my MIL said she was glad that we decided to homeschool
our children, but it was my mom that had a tough time. She is
finally starting to come around, but I think she is more old-
school. She worked in the school system for 29 years, and I think
has been through it/ seen it all.

My kids are still deschooling, and are doing so much more better,
than they would've been doing in school. They love homeschooling,
and are really enjoying it.

I really hope this situation gets resolved, whether it be from just
staying away, or talking to them, or emailing them. I don't have
the answer, but if you search your heart, you will know what to do.
Good luck.

----Vanessa

--- In [email protected], "Cara" <casonnier@...>
wrote:
>
> > "We have a "created family" which we built from friends who
respect
> us."
>
>
> This sounds so wonderful! I'd love to know if there are other
> organizations that respect children so we can create our own
family.
>
> We live in an area in the South where children are expected to
obey
> and not mouth off. Even the liberal churches we have visited
condone
> spanking, etc.
>
> We have had a very hard time even in the homeschool community -
many
> are very conservative and believe "spoil the rod" philosophy (my
in-
> laws for example).
>
> Cara :)
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara

> Oh, and I wanted to ask the original poster... where was your DH
when this all was going on?

Sitting right next to me. He seems ok with the unschooling
philosophy when it comes to "school" but giving choices to our
children is another thing. I don't think he quite "gets it"
either. He thought my FIL was right for refusing to let them have a
ride since my daughter told his mom "no".

He's having a hard time coming to grips with a no rewards-punishment
type parenting. He truly believes they will turn into deviants if
they don't have consequences (i.e. not riding the 4 wheeler because
she didn't want to help get a chair for her grandmother). He
believes because she said no, that his dad had a right to say no to
her.

He thinks I'm being "too permissive" with them. My oldest is very
keen on the differences and of course prefers to ask me things, over
him, because as she say "he doesn't listen to me". I have requested
that he read things or listen to a broadcast I downloaded (one with
Alfie Kohn) - he doesn't want to. I don't think I'm explaining the
concept well enough, or he just doesn't want to get it. I don't
know if he is capable of trusting them.

As far as passing along reading material or email to my in-laws -
they don't have email and rarely ever read a book. They believe I'm
an evil "Yankee" (yes said to my face) that has brainwashed their
son and am poisoning their grandchildren by allowing them to think
for themselves. It's just a very toxic situation that I have been
dealing with for 11 years. They haven't changed at all in that time.

Blessings,
Cara :)

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/24/2006 7:04:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

He thought my FIL was right for refusing to let them have a
ride since my daughter told his mom "no"......He
believes because she said no, that his dad had a right to say no to
her. <<<<<<<<<

While I don't use punishments. I will say that if it was the FIL's toy (was
it a 4 wheeler...I can't remember), I believe he does have a right to not
let anyone use it, or to let just certain people use it.

Certainly that was a mean thing to do, and he was using his toy to punish
your daughter, which I would not do. But it was his toy.

Did you talk with your daughter afterward about the events of the day? What
were her thoughts and feelings?

Just a thought,
Pam G






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

At 18:14 9/23/2006, you wrote:

>He thinks I'm being "too permissive" with them. My oldest is very
>keen on the differences and of course prefers to ask me things, over
>him, because as she say "he doesn't listen to me". I have requested
>that he read things or listen to a broadcast I downloaded (one with
>Alfie Kohn) - he doesn't want to.

Perhaps you could explain to him that it's his *responsibility* to
either read/digest the material you've been providing to him or back
off and let you and your kids be!! You could perhaps explain to him
that his clinging to ignorance (by refusing to read the material)
should not interfere with your kids becoming all they can be! He's
stuck and unwilling to move forward. That should not be your kids'
problem! Perhaps you could tell him you'd be happy to hear his
arguments about your excessive permissiveness *after* he has read
*all* the material.

>she say "he doesn't listen to me".

Perhaps he needs to understand that at least one of his kids doesn't
trust him, and that is a dangerous situation!

>...he just doesn't want to get it. I don't
>know if he is capable of trusting them.

I can't see why he wouldn't be "capable" of trusting them. But, he's
got some serious work to do if he wants *them* to trust *him*! ;-)
And, it's *his* work to do. (The very last thing I would want is a
kid who didn't trust me!) And, since he buys into the concept of
unschooling, it may be important for him to understand that Trust is
the fertile soil in which Unschooling flourishes. Without it,
unschooling can never take root and withers! (Can you tell I love to
garden!?) ;-)


>As far as passing along reading material or email to my in-laws -
>they don't have email and rarely ever read a book. They believe I'm
>an evil "Yankee" (yes said to my face) that has brainwashed their
>son and am poisoning their grandchildren by allowing them to think
>for themselves. It's just a very toxic situation that I have been
>dealing with for 11 years. They haven't changed at all in that time.

Cara, you have my sympathy!! Ugh!!! Your kids are very fortunate to
have you, though!!! In this case, I think I would limit my kids'
exposure to this situation and be on my toes the whole time I was
there. In the meanwhile, I would probably start seeking out other
"family," as another poster so beautifully stated, and create a
family that's loving and nurturing and supportive. Look at it this
way: You're probably not the only person in your geographic area
with your set of values, and even though *you* may be a rare flower,
there are probably others out there, too. Perhaps a UU church would
be a good place to start, or even a local La Leche League group (even
if you're not BFing)! These two groups could be portals to a
community where you can feel supported!

Wishing you all the best!!

Marji


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Marji
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