Su

I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
-alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
a normal cut of the population.
How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?
I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
of higher and higher things.
Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
it coming.
Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.

Ren Allen

" Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long."

Maybe you assumed some of the long haired children on the blogs are
girls...did you think of that?:) You really don't know gender from a
picture at a blog, I think your assumption from a picture is playing
right into the whole gender role stereotype.

I can't tell gender from a picture. I can't tell a girl from a boy in
real life many times (esp. at the conference unless they're more in
line with typical boy/girl looks).

Jalen had very long hair until recently, when he took a buzzer to his
own head. His long hair lasted until he was 5 years old and he chose
to cut it himself. Not much coercion there. Yeah, we dressed him in
typical boy clothes but he's had girl clothes available and dressed in
them quite often. In fact, he loves dressing in typical girl clothing
daily now, but doesn't want anyone to see him. We figure the reason he
wants to hide is all the messages he's gotten from mainstream
society/tv about what boys "should" wear. Those messages exist. I
think he'll find a way to navigate his own desires against those messages.

Every society on the earth has gender roles. It's part of living in a
society. So I'm not sure why there is anything coercive about dressing
kids in what is "traditional" garb for our society. You could say
we're "coercive" for not dressing them in other time periods instead
of modern clothes. People aren't going to have every option in the
entire world within their home. But as children explore the world with
you, it's important to support their interests and
fascinations...which include trying on gender roles and various clothing.

Jalen also loves wearing nail polish and putting makeup on us. All of
that has been fully supported just as it would be with anyone in the
house...gender has nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure how it's coercive to not give your kid every clothing
option under the sun from birth. Not possible. Having various gender
styles available is great....we can do that! I don't have 17th and
18th century costumes avaiable to them, I DO have 15th
century....coercive? If they became fascinated with a time period and
wanted costumes, we'd figure out a way. Unschooling doesn't mean you
can provide the whole world within your home, it does mean supporting
them in whatever fascination they have.

Sierra has mostly worn only jeans or shorts for many years now. Just
recently she's interested in skirts and dresses again (she's 9). I
dressed her in cute little dresses and girly stuff as a baby, I really
don't think she cared! When she let her preference be known, we
honored that. She's gone through phases of wanting short or long hair
and is currently undecided about shaving her hair off. I have a 13
y.o. boy with fairly long hair and a 16.5 y.o. with a mohawk (see
conference pics). If a child chooses current gender clothing, that
isn't limiting them. In a home where trust is plentiful, they have no
fear about trying out other gender roles if that fascinates them.

I'm pretty sure my 5y.o. will fully explore cross-dressing when he's a
bit older and more comfortable ignoring societal messages......maybe
not. Either way, we haven't "coerced" anything by dressing him in
current fashions.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

John and Amanda Slater

I know my boys wear superhero etc shirts because they want to. I could not pay them to dress up, nor could I when they were younger. (At the last fashion show with their cousins, Samuel dress up as "ordinary boy.") My 3 yo does like pink "light red" but has just switched to light green as his favorite. His hair is about an inch below his collar. We do get questions about being a girl. He likes his hair like that and we cut it when it gets so long he cannot see out of his batman mask. (At his request.) I think kids to fall into gender rolls as suits them. I have tried to give the boys dolls and such, they hit them. We have tried puppets and stuffed animals and they hit us. In our case they are conforming to traditional gender roles dispite our efforts and I have decided that in our case it is their choice and society has had little influence. You might want to ask Meridith as I know Morgan often calls herself a boy and I have not been able to convince my boys she
is a girl. I don't think she is on this list, but try TNunschoolers.

Amanda
Eli 5, Samuel 3.5

Su <ikylilgrl@...> wrote: I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
-alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
a normal cut of the population.
How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?
I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
of higher and higher things.
Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
it coming.
Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.






---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 9/19/06, Su <ikylilgrl@...> wrote:
> I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
> goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
> looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
> come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
> in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
> dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
> have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
> and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
> -alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
> a normal cut of the population.
> How is this NOT coersive parenting?

Well, first one would have to know if the parents coerce the children
to adopt a certain style. There are times when my son looks like the
average American boy with short hair, a Power Rangers t-shirt and a
pair of denim shorts. 6 months later (in the dead of winter) you
might find him with shoulder length hair in the same t-shirt and
shorts (or perhaps he actually decided to wear sweatpants that day!)
My girls have also had short hair and long hair. They've been
everything from their natural dark blonde to red to jet goth black. I
don't dictate how they wear their hair. That is their doing.

I think that children are influenced some by society, though. Boys
see other boys (or male role models - personal or celebrity) with
short hair and decide to cut their hair. Girls see other girls (and
female role models - personal or celebrity) with the latest hairdo and
decide to grow their hair out (or chop it off). My son had waist
length blonde curls until he was 3yo when he decided he wanted short
hair. His idea. We'd never asked him and never thought of it. His
father also has waist lenght hair (while his mother has changed her
hair many times) Since then he has grown it out several times. He
currently is in a "growing out stage" after having it buzz cut for the
summer because he said his head was too hot. He has extremely THICK
hair and usually does this every summer - asking on his own. I
actually think if he were a girl he would probably do the same thing.
And I would help him/her achieve that goal. :)

I've seen Ren's beautiful children go from their natural blonde colors
to every color under the sun and with styles from traditional to "a
bit out there!" (There were pics last week from the L&L conference
with Trevor with long spikey hair which made me have major flash backs
to college! LOL!) I don't believe she has coerced her children into
coloring their hair with bubblegum pink stripes! (Although she may
have influenced them!) :-D

--
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Check out my homeschool cooking classes!

Jenniffer Baltzell

We've dealt with these issues. I have 3 boys, all with long hair. None of
them had haircuts until they were around 3 and started cutting their own
hair (all of them did this shortly before their 3rd birthdays). We've been
in the same situation where the boy first wants a haircut at a shop then
changes his mind so they get down out of the chair, usually with strange
looks from the haircutter person, who is accustomed to parents making their
kids get their haircut against their will. We offer to trim their hair out
of their eyes when it's bothering them (as evidenced by constantly pushing
the hair aside, sighs, puffing consternation, and eye infections), and honor
their response to the offer. We honor their requests to go get their hair
cut professionally when they ask (hardly ever, these days). I talked to
them at the beginning of the year about growing out their hair for charity
and they all thought that was a neat concept, so we're doing that, but if
they change their mind, we'll honor that, too.

They're all regularly called "her" and "she" but we don't correct people
because we don't really care about other people's misperceptions. They
either don't hear the remark or don't care, because I've never heard any of
them correct anyone about it, even though none of them are shy about
correcting adults in other ways. When adults have tried to be coercive,
shaming, or manipulative with them, I've stepped between them and the adult
to stop the assault and remove the boy from the situation. I've changed the
subject with my MIL when she speaks to them rudely about their hair or
clothes (and other things).

As far as clothes, my mother sends them all sorts of costumes, hair things
(barettes, headbands, etc), and clothes with no eye to gender and they all
enjoy everything she sends. I only shop online and they sit with me when
I'm shopping, picking out what they want. I don't knowingly interfere with
the process, but I'm sure I have all sorts of influence over what they
choose, if only by the choices I make in my own wardrobe. Likewise with
their dad. I think I point them in the direction of comfortable cottons,
especially my middle boy, who can't abide tags or clothes that don't "feel
right". So yes, I do have an influence, though I try to be conscious of it
and stick to practical concerns.

That's us :)

Jenniffer in Harpers Ferry
http://octopigarden.blogspot.com

On 9/19/06, Su <ikylilgrl@...> wrote:
>
> I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
> goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
> looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
> come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
> in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
> dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
> have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
> and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
> -alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
> a normal cut of the population.
> How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
> AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
> but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
> completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
> to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
> Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
> wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
> Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
> from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
> their own clothes?
> I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
> dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
> her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
> cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
> she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
> was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
> to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
> all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
> of higher and higher things.
> Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
> is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
> I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
> took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
> sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
> chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
> head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
> voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
> his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
> forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
> about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
> would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
> down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
> in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
> a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
> to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
> honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
> caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
> So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
> parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
> dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
> dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
> it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
> great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
> little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
> is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
> with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
> him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
> is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
> it coming.
> Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
> blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
> food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
> those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.
>
>
>



--
Jenniffer in Harpers Ferry
Listen, are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life? ~Mary Oliver


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Have you not seen photos from the conference???

There were more long-haired boys there than I could count!

Both my boys (ten and 18) have long hair, and we live in Columbia, SC.
Cameron (18) has his pulled back in a pony tail and has facial hair, so
he usually doesn't get comments any more. When he was eight with long
hair and at camp, someone called him a girl. He came home and
immediately asked for a hair cut. Short and very handsome---but he
tired of it after a while and let it grow again. It would be past his
butt now if he hadn't have cut it way back then.

Duncan (10) is regularly called a girl---even in "alternative" places
like Albuquerque last week. But he just smiles and says. "I'm a boy,
but I get that *all* the time." <g> Folks generally kindly apologize.

I would have a problem if either boy were to be rude to someone for
making a mistake.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6

-----Original Message-----
From: ikylilgrl@...

I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
-alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
a normal cut of the population.
How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?
I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
of higher and higher things.
Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
it coming.
Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.






________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Sylvia Toyama

One thing that I have come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress in 'typical american boy' outfits.

You're assuming that given a choice, all boys would choose to have long hair and wear some non-traditional clothing? I don't have any daughters, so I really can't address that one, but I can talk about my boys and their styles.

I have three boys -- 21, 10 & 5. They've always chosen their own styles of hair and dress, in or out of school. My oldest was sporting razor lines, spikes and long curly rattail at 4yo -- he's always had his own ideas of how he wants to look. It's been skater cuts, military shaves, long wild curly hair, and at the moment, shaved. He shaves it because his hair is so curly it frizzes at any length shorter than shoulder length and he hates to brush it. For a time, it neared dreadlocks, but now he works as a cook at a barbeque place and shaved is just easier for him to maintain.

My 10 yo has let his hair grow long a few times, but as it gets curlier (the curse of all boys in my family line) with age, he prefers it a bit shorter. He's been upset to have people mistake him for a girl. Now, tho, after the conference last week, where most of his friends are boys with long hair, I think he's reconsidering that.

The 5yo had his hair longer than shoulder length at last winter, asked for it short in the spring and had his most recent haircut in July. He tends to decide spur-of-the moment and we cut it accordingly.

They all choose their own clothes, and each has his own style.

Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?

Yep, we do ask with each haircut. My boys have never asked to wear a dress, but if they wanted to, they certainly could.

For years until she was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate.

Sounds like the little girls in our unschooling tribe -- naked or pirates.

Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.

People here will be honest with you -- have you seen any of the photos from last week's conference? An amazing array of hair and clothing styles -- boys & girls.

Sylvia
Will (21) Andy (10) and Dan (5)
www.ourhapahome.blogspot.com






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 9/19/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> Yeah, we dressed him in
> typical boy clothes but he's had girl clothes available and dressed in
> them quite often. In fact, he loves dressing in typical girl clothing
> daily now, but doesn't want anyone to see him. We figure the reason he
> wants to hide is all the messages he's gotten from mainstream
> society/tv about what boys "should" wear.

I think that is why we initially dressed our son in boy clothing. Not
for our comfort (heck our pocket book would have been much more
comfortable had he worn his big sisters' hand me downs LOL!) but for
society's. When Keon was 2 or 3 (he still had long hair at the time)
he wanted to be Snow White for Hallowe'en. We were quite concerned.
Not because our son wanted to wear a red and yellow dress and red
sparkly shoes, but because we were concerned what the people at the
place we would trunk-or-treat would say and think. We were already
"out there" for being the "weird homeschoolers down the street." The
day before Hallowe'en he decided (on his own with no coercion from us,
not even an overheard conversation from us) that he wanted to be a
fire fighter instead. We were almost relieved. Again, not because we
were ashamed of having a son who wanted to dress in "girl" clothes but
because we were concerned about how society would view him and treat
him. He still dresses periodically in his sister's cast offs although
he thinks that their heels are silly things to wear.

--
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Check out my homeschool cooking classes!

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

My 4 year old son likes his hair like dadyy's and love boy's stuff.
It has always been HIS choice. He has been picking his stuff since before he was 13 months old.
And this is a kid that will go out to a park in his PJ's.
I do not see it as been coercive.
There is NO way you can coerce my ds. He ONLY does what he wants and feels right about it\
He has been like that since birth and I am happy to say we respect it.
His first hair cut was when he asked for one.
And we onl;y buy clothes that he wants.
He likes no pants on.
So to this day he gets home and takes out his pants and shoes.
He also stopped wearing underwear a few months ago.
I was like that and up until I was 16 years old I loved wearing my brothers and father's clothing.
Actually I remenber wearing their stuff until much older.....
Oh yeah I still wear my hubby's stuff. On the other hand I also love to dress sexy with short short stuff and hi heels.
Go figure....
Alex


----- Original Message -----
From: Su
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] not trying to be annoying


I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So here
goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
-alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
a normal cut of the population.
How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?
I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
of higher and higher things.
Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
it coming.
Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Oh I forgot.
My son has bought girl's shots and also love's nail polish.
We used to paint our toenails together.
It was fun!!!!!!!!!! he did not ask for it this year.
Alex


----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] not trying to be annoying


" Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long."

Maybe you assumed some of the long haired children on the blogs are
girls...did you think of that?:) You really don't know gender from a
picture at a blog, I think your assumption from a picture is playing
right into the whole gender role stereotype.

I can't tell gender from a picture. I can't tell a girl from a boy in
real life many times (esp. at the conference unless they're more in
line with typical boy/girl looks).

Jalen had very long hair until recently, when he took a buzzer to his
own head. His long hair lasted until he was 5 years old and he chose
to cut it himself. Not much coercion there. Yeah, we dressed him in
typical boy clothes but he's had girl clothes available and dressed in
them quite often. In fact, he loves dressing in typical girl clothing
daily now, but doesn't want anyone to see him. We figure the reason he
wants to hide is all the messages he's gotten from mainstream
society/tv about what boys "should" wear. Those messages exist. I
think he'll find a way to navigate his own desires against those messages.

Every society on the earth has gender roles. It's part of living in a
society. So I'm not sure why there is anything coercive about dressing
kids in what is "traditional" garb for our society. You could say
we're "coercive" for not dressing them in other time periods instead
of modern clothes. People aren't going to have every option in the
entire world within their home. But as children explore the world with
you, it's important to support their interests and
fascinations...which include trying on gender roles and various clothing.

Jalen also loves wearing nail polish and putting makeup on us. All of
that has been fully supported just as it would be with anyone in the
house...gender has nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure how it's coercive to not give your kid every clothing
option under the sun from birth. Not possible. Having various gender
styles available is great....we can do that! I don't have 17th and
18th century costumes avaiable to them, I DO have 15th
century....coercive? If they became fascinated with a time period and
wanted costumes, we'd figure out a way. Unschooling doesn't mean you
can provide the whole world within your home, it does mean supporting
them in whatever fascination they have.

Sierra has mostly worn only jeans or shorts for many years now. Just
recently she's interested in skirts and dresses again (she's 9). I
dressed her in cute little dresses and girly stuff as a baby, I really
don't think she cared! When she let her preference be known, we
honored that. She's gone through phases of wanting short or long hair
and is currently undecided about shaving her hair off. I have a 13
y.o. boy with fairly long hair and a 16.5 y.o. with a mohawk (see
conference pics). If a child chooses current gender clothing, that
isn't limiting them. In a home where trust is plentiful, they have no
fear about trying out other gender roles if that fascinates them.

I'm pretty sure my 5y.o. will fully explore cross-dressing when he's a
bit older and more comfortable ignoring societal messages......maybe
not. Either way, we haven't "coerced" anything by dressing him in
current fashions.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Oh---and Cameron regularly wears skirts and sarongs. Cam's particularly
comfortable in skirts---he owns several and shops for them regularly at
GoodWill.

My husband also bought and wore his first sarong to the conference
dance.

All three---Ben, Cam, & Dunc wear kilts several times/year to Scottish
events. Duncan used to refer to his as his "party dress." <g>

We don't make much of a deal about any of it. Whatever makes them happy.

I like skirts too! <bwg>

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6

-----Original Message-----
From: ikylilgrl@...

I am one of those ppl who learns by asking a lot of questions. So
here
goes. I don't know all of you, only a couple in person. I have been
looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
in 'typical american boy' outfits. Shirts with moving vehicles,
dinosaurs, tv or movie characters, and camoflage. And the girls mostly
have longer hair in pretty styles, and wear pastels, flowers, brats
and barbie. The girls seem to have the most range of wearing
-alternative-fashions, some different hair color, Almost exactly like
a normal cut of the population.
How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?
I will share my own experience. I have two older girls, my 7yr old
dresses like a 'typical boy' most days. she has just started wearing
her hair longer but she has always liked it really short. She wears
cargo shorts, skateboarding tshirts, and converse allstars. Sometimes
she will wear dresses for days but it is unusual. For years until she
was maybe 5 she didn't wear clothes. I didn't make her. Now she likes
to play princess sometimes but most days it is still pirate. Almost
all of her friends are boys, she climbs trees, skateboards, jumps off
of higher and higher things.
Now a lot of ppl think that is okay, 'she is just a little girl, she
is so cute in those boy clothes'. But what about this...
I also have 2 younger boys. My 3rd child will be 5 in November, we
took him and the girls to get haircuts when he was about 1. He saw his
sisters get their hair cut and when it was his turn we put him in the
chair and he holds onto the back of his neck and starts shaking his
head. I asked him "what?" and he said "no, my hair" in this really sad
voice, so the lady said she could just do it anyway. I said no, it is
his hair and we left. Grandparents tried bribing him, uncles tried
forcing him, everyone else(except us) tried by making him feel bad
about himself. My husband and I just decided that it was his hair he
would cut it when he felt like it. Well...he is 4.5 and his hair is
down to his WAIST. The prettiest hair you have ever seen. But we live
in the south and young boys Do Not have long hair. He has been called
a sissy by adults! We have been told in complete seriousness "you need
to cut his hair now...or he will start acting like a girl" To be
honest, I like his hair and I am proud of him, proud of him for not
caving when even his little guy friends tell him to cut his hair.
So even though I may be coersive in other aspects of my
parenting(working on that) Can we open this discussion? He wears
dresses too! But it is funny, he has started not wanting to wear
dresses or pink (it was his favorite color for years) because he says
it is too girly, but his hair is soooo long. Personally I think it is
great but man I get a lot of flak. And when ppl say "what a pretty
little girl" he says "no, sir" if it is a woman and "no, maam" if it
is a man,(we do not make them talk like that to adults and he came up
with this on his own) my mother in law thinks it is really rude for
him to say that but I feel that if I correct the person and say "no it
is a little boy" and they still say what a pretty girl then they have
it coming.
Okay so the question might have gotten lost in all my blah, blah,
blah.. I think if ppl were really honest with me about this then the
food issues and the tv issues would be easier for me to deal with. But
those are for different posts. I will let you guys breathe a bit.

________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Ren Allen

"I don't believe she has coerced her children into
coloring their hair with bubblegum pink stripes! (Although she may
have influenced them!) :-D"

Weeelllllll, you know what they say
If you give a kid some pink hair dye, they're going to want blue to go
with it...............lol

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/19/2006 10:42:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ikylilgrl@... writes:

How is this NOT coersive parenting? I know this is not the
AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list and maybe it would fit there better
but...isn't dictating when they are very young 'proper gender roles'
completely coersive? I know ppl could say, that is what he/she likes
to wear but isn't that also what the parent is comfortable with?
Did you ask him before that *first hair cut* if that is what he
wanted? Did you ever put him in a dress? And if not, why not?
Isn't that letting him be led by what he sees on tv? What he feels
from the parents is the right answer? Do they get to pick out/purchase
their own clothes?



*********

Hmmm. I don't see coersion here in the way we discuss it. I don't think
"coercion" and "choice" are necessarily opposites.

When dinner is ready, I call everyone to the table. The vast majority of
the time, everyone sits and eats. Occasionally, someone just isn't hungry or
they are busy or they want to eat alone. To force them to eat or sit there
would be coercion, but to call out "dinner is ready" is not.

I don't see it as necessary right now to say "dinner is ready if you choose
to eat". In some families, that might be appropriate. But my way is not
coercive, just because it isn't presented as a choice.

No, I do not think buying my children clothes without their consent is
coercive. I buy them toys and books and DVD's, some they like and some they
don't. It is no big deal. No, I haven't bought my son a dress, but I also never
put out chopsticks when he started feeding himself. We naturally do what
makes sense in our home, our neighborhood, our town, our culture. If it doesn't
feel right to someone, then we can do something else.

I think what is more important is that the child *trusts* (built from
experience) that his desires will be honored by the family. That is what I
consider non-coercive.

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

I'm sitting here thinking about the whole gender issue and how most
parents aren't even aware enough to give their child a comfortable
place for trying out gender roles, but how that is NOT my experience
with the unschooling crowd.

The conference for example, both Cameron Lovejoy and James Coburn wear
skirts. They're both straight, both masculine men, but they LIKE
wearing skirts sometimes. Lotsa unique styles among the kids at the
conference....some of the wee little girls (including my friend Zibby)
had buzzed hair. Super short. Same with Mellissa's sweet Bre. I
imagine that sometimes the short hair is simple for practical
reasons...but still.

My 13 y.o. was always assumed a girl when he was little..no matter
WHAT he was wearing. He had this very feminine face, angelic really,
with huge eyes and long lashes. His hair was very long and white with
loopy curls. He was so beautiful. Nobody EVER assumed he was a male.
He finally got tired of it around 4 or so and asked for a cut.
He's now growing it out again.:)

Sierra goes between fashion diva and tree-climbing, gun-slinging,
jean-wearing tough girl. I think it's safe to say that my children are
pretty comfortable trying out lotsa roles to see what fits them
personally.

I know you'd have a hard time telling gender by looking at a lot of
the unschoolers at the conference. Wish I had some good photos.
Quinn's blog had some good ones with Duncans very long hair, but you
have to be a myspace member to read her blog.

Anyone that wants to see conference pics can go the flickr account I
created: http://flickr.com/groups/72039428@N00/
There are plenty of more typical boy/girl looks, but I DARE you to
tell male from female based on the pics alone. Chances are, you'd be
wrong in several cases.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 19, 2006, at 9:28 AM, Su wrote:

> I have been
> looking at a lot of websites and a lot of blogs. One thing that I have
> come across is that most all the little boys have short hair and dress
> in 'typical american boy' outfits.

Not quite sure where you're looking, but perhaps you didn't see the
conference photos?

http://flickr.com/groups/72039428@N00/

There are teen boys in the dress up room wearing frilly things. There
were long haired boys and boys with different colored hair and
pierced body parts. More difficult to tell with the girls.

> Almost exactly like
> a normal cut of the population.
> How is this NOT coersive parenting?

But, even if unschooled kids did stick to their gender's clothes as
mainstream kids do, why do you assume that parents are making them
dress that way? Isn't that like assuming that a woman who stays at
home with the kids can't be a feminist? Maybe you're projecting onto
unschoolers the conservative values of southerners because the
outward appearance is similar?

We are genetically preprogrammed to be social creatures. We *want* to
fit in with society. Unless a child has strong feelings of wanting
something other than convention, I think it's natural for people
(including kids) to get their clues of "how things are done" from
others. Not clonish copies but sort of tribal customs.

Despite how alike certain movements insist boys and girls are, there
are differences. Boys tend to be more logic oriented. Girls tend to
be more language oriented. Boys tend to rough housing. Girls tend to
not-as-rough housing ;-) Boys tend to build towers. Girls tend to
build caves. Boys tend towards fighting video games. Girls tend
towards social video games. That doesn't say anything about how an
individual boy or girl will be, but taken as a whole boys tend to be
more boy-like and girls tend to be more girl-like ;-)

And this is being written by someone who went into engineering and
whose daughter liked dinosaurs and trucks rather than Barbies and had
never chosen to wear a dress on her own before she was 14. The girls
in engineering *were* different than the girls in other majors.

It's pure speculation but I think the desire to go against convention
or the lack of interest in convention is as genetic as the desire to
blend into the tribe. It's just not as common. (Not counting the
people who choose to go against convention as a form of protest.)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"My husband also bought and wore his first sarong to the conference
dance."

Yeah, he and I both flashed the camera with our skirts pulled up!! lol

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

"Oh yeah I still wear my hubby's stuff. On the other hand I also love
to dress sexy with short short stuff and hi heels. Go figure...."

That's "well rounded"!!:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

Obviously, I find this an interesting topic...can't shut up about it!!:)

I think Su has a good point about gender roles and how we respond to
them. Most families (unlike the ones that are supportive and
encouraging that we read about here) send so many subtle and blatant
messages about what is acceptable for boys and girls.

Working in the fashion world, I see a lot of it. Little boys walk up
to the MAC counter and want to touch or look...."that's NOT for boys"
or "That is for GIRLS" in a mean voice. Makes me cringe terribly. I
try to tactfully say something to counter that ugly message, like
pointing out that we have a BOY (gasp) working behind the counter, so
obviously it's NOT just for girls. ARgh to the tenth power. Or I say
"It's really fun to play in colors, isn't it?" and smile sweetly at
them. Hopefully they'll grow up to understand there is nothing wrong
with them, just their parents!

There are so many messages about gender. I think it's good to be aware
of this and try to counter enough of it that our children can be
comfortable in whatever interests them. I feel sad that Jalen likes to
hide in order to dress up in girly stuff...but I also know that he has
to work through these societal messages in his own way. We buffer it
as much as we can.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

And another thing. <g>

Both boys shunned clothes for years. Duncan was known as "naked boy"
for a long time. If he left the house, he (and Cameron at that age!)
would wear Batman costumes. We had a slew of them. We also had "Bruce
Wayne" attire if they wanted to go incognito. <bwg>

It's all good.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6

________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[email protected]

>>Yeah, he and I both flashed the camera with our skirts pulled up!! lol>>

I've got that pic!!!! Am I allowed to post it? <g>

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
> "My husband also bought and wore his first sarong to the conference
> dance."
>
> Yeah, he and I both flashed the camera with our skirts pulled up!! lol
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 9/19/06, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> And another thing. <g>
>
> Both boys shunned clothes for years. Duncan was known as "naked boy"
> for a long time.

Keon had a sad day once when we had to explain to him that Grandmother
just didn't see the joy of the "Naked Emperor of China" as we did.
I'm not sure how Keon came up with that name for himself, but he went
naked for the LONGEST time and would refer to himself in that state of
undress as "Bow down before the Naked Emperor of China."

--
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Check out my homeschool cooking classes!

[email protected]

I'm the mother of 3 boys. My first son wanted his hair to look like his dad's
(who is now balding :) so wear it very short, though he used to have long hair
back in the day!)
So, DS7 wears his short, but it grows to shabby proportions and he's fine with
that, too. I ask him once in a while If there's anything he'd like to do with
his hair, so he knows the option and the power to make choices about his hair
is in his hands. He'll either say, "no, it's fine" or, "Yeah, let's cut it
tomorrow" then if tomorrow comes and he doesn't want to take the time out of
his day to cut it, it's dropped and he knows he can come to me if he
needs/wants it cut.
Now with our 2nd son (ds5), he had the MOST BEAUTIFUL long hair until he was
4+, and on the other token that you mentioned in your post, I think that I
wanted his hair long more than he did. But, I did honor the request from him
one day to shave it off. I didn't try to convince him otherwise, I just
figured he knew best and had his own good reasons for wanting it cut off.
Probably because he was tired of people calling him a girl, too! Since then,
he'd had mohawk, but that's grown out, so it's a very over-grown version of a
mohawk and he's just fine with leaving it alone.
Yes, I've dressed my little boys in dresses, but when they are old enough to
be verbal to say "NO" then I have to respect that, too.
So, that's my story, I guess.
My guys really don't care what they wear. They wear a lot of hand me down
clothes,and my oldest will wear the same clothes for 3 days in a row, so he
doesn't have to re-dress every day.
They just don't really care, there isn't a whole lot of interest or desire in
them right now to buy their own clothes, so I buy from thrift stores or what I
can find on clearance at stores. It just so happens, that in our
country/culture, boys clothes look like x and girl clothes look like y.
A sign of the times, I guess? Wish I could afford to buy from some amazing
organic sellers (usually from foreign countries) where those 'rules' don't
apply, just can't afford those right now.
Karen

Chip And Cathy Craven

"My 4 year old son likes his hair like dadyy's and love boy's stuff.
It has always been HIS choice. He has been picking his stuff since before he was 13 months old.
And this is a kid that will go out to a park in his PJ's.
I do not see it as been coercive.
There is NO way you can coerce my ds. He ONLY does what he wants and feels right about it\
He has been like that since birth and I am happy to say we respect it.
His first hair cut was when he asked for one.
And we onl;y buy clothes that he wants.
He likes no pants on.
So to this day he gets home and takes out his pants and shoes.
He also stopped wearing underwear a few months ago."

This entire paragraph also describes my 4-year-old son. :-) Except that today he is also wearing Chick Flick Cherry OPI polish on his nails (he asked me to apply it for him yesterday). ;-)

Cathy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> And another thing. <g>
>
> Both boys shunned clothes for years. Duncan was known as "naked boy"
> for a long time.

LOL DS is 8 and still sometimes prefers to be sans clothing - though
now it's starting to be more comfortable for him down in the basement
playing videogames to have clothing on - it gets kind of cool down
there (oh, for the record, for anyone who doesn't already know, the
basement is a finished game room area with the TV, DVD, cable, PS2,
air hockey, dart board, mini fridge, one of DS' punching bags, the
mini trampoline, and a comfy loveseat with some casual throw pillows.
It also has a closet wherein resides the Lego BrikWars scenarios and
additional bricks in bins. Just didn't want anyone thinking he was
somehow being 'banished' to the basement or that we 'hid' it to make
it less accessible and desirable)

--Deb

Deb

We did DS' first trim (you mentioned first haircut) before he was a
year old - his hair was starting to get in his face and being
annoying. Over the last couple of years, DH let his hair go really
long (think Santa before he went all white - that's DH, size, hair,
beard) because a friend was using him as a model for a sculpture she
was doing. During that time, DS would ask for haircuts occasionally
when it got long enough to aggravate him. But he'd specify whether
he wanted the clippers (longer buzz type cut) or scissors (more of
the 'typical boy cut'). His choice. We've even discussed and looked
up how to do Kool Aid hair coloring - if he wants to try it, we'll
do it. As far as clothing, he's pretty much a shorts or sweatpants
and t-shirt kid ... which is pretty generic (I work in jeans and
tshirts just like my predominantly male coworkers). True, we never
had a kid-size skirt in the house but with an only boy, there really
was no reason to - he never asked about it, we never went out of our
way to have one around. I suppose if he wanted one, we would've
worked something out somehow (maybe borrow something from a friend
or something). Never seemed like it was worth spending money on when
we could use the money for stuff we knew he would like (Pokemon
shirts for instance). Right now I'm toying with getting a tattoo so
DH has been using Sharpie markers to play with colors and patterns
and locations - and we "decorate" DS if he chooses.

--Deb

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Michelle Leifur Reid"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
>
> I think that is why we initially dressed our son in boy clothing.
>Not
> for our comfort (heck our pocket book would have been much more
> comfortable had he worn his big sisters' hand me downs LOL!) but >for
> society's.
That's another reason for DS' clothing to date (though it is fading) -
we got TONS of hand me downs from friends with slightly older than DS
boys - and none from folks with slightly older than DS girls. Made
financial sense to use what was given for free and spend money on
other things.

--Deb

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/19/2006 12:02:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
buxcel@... writes:

They wear a lot of hand me down
clothes,and my oldest will wear the same clothes for 3 days in a row, so he
doesn't have to re-dress every day.



Thanks Karen!! This line is so empowering to me my 7ds HATES to change
clothes and will wear the same thing for days even sleeping in the clothes. I
do have to be honest I do not so subtly set it up to get him to change if we
are going to be home for a couple days no biggie but like tomorrow is our
unschooling group and the sweats hes had on since sun are very stained so
tonight when he takes a bath I will throw them in the laundry.........

Chrissy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa

My DD does the same thing, too. But I wear the same lounge around clothes
for days in a row, too.


Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
-------Original Message-------

From: Homeschlfor2@...
Date: 09/19/06 14:21:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] not trying to be annoying


In a message dated 9/19/2006 12:02:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
buxcel@... writes:

They wear a lot of hand me down
clothes,and my oldest will wear the same clothes for 3 days in a row, so he
doesn't have to re-dress every day.

Thanks Karen!! This line is so empowering to me my 7ds HATES to change
clothes and will wear the same thing for days even sleeping in the clothes.
I
do have to be honest I do not so subtly set it up to get him to change if we

are going to be home for a couple days no biggie but like tomorrow is our
unschooling group and the sweats hes had on since sun are very stained so
tonight when he takes a bath I will throw them in the laundry.........

Chrissy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

ROTFL....Josh was two when he started stripping naked and once, when
my dad asked him why he was naked....Josh grinned and said "Because
my penis is MUY grande!"
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Michelle Leifur Reid wrote:

> Keon had a sad day once when we had to explain to him that Grandmother
> just didn't see the joy of the "Naked Emperor of China" as we did.
> I'm not sure how Keon came up with that name for himself, but he went
> naked for the LONGEST time and would refer to himself in that state of
> undress as "Bow down before the Naked Emperor of China."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]