Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling/Schooling
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/15/2006 10:12:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
If unschooling is not doing school, then how is going to school
unschooling?
If someone believes they need someone to decide what they need to
know and need someone to teach it to them, then even if they're given
the freedom to choose school or stay home, they aren't unschooling if
they choose school.
They aren't even unschooling if they stay home and choose curriculum.
*What* someone does doesn't define unschooling. *Why* someone chooses
something is what will define whether someone is unschooling or not.<<<<<<
Not sure I understand. Personally I don't define unschooling as "not going
to school". School is not even in my definition.
But first you say "...they aren't unschooling if they choose school. They
aren't even unschooling if they stay home and choose curriculum." then you go
on to say "*What* someone does doesn't define unschooling. *Why* someone
chooses something is what will define whether someone is unschooling or not."
Those two things doing seem to say the same thing. You are saying you
aren't unschooling if you use curriculum then say it isn't the *what* but the
*why*. Sounds a bit confusing to me.
Personally I don't label myself an unschooler or radical unschooler outside
of these "groups" really. It helps me find more like minded individuals in
one sense, like on lists and in homeschool groups where the focus is on
*education*. But what we do is more than unschooling. I personally believe the
label itself binds you to defining things in *school* terms. And when you tell
someone ( who is unfamiliar with homeschooling or unschooling) you are
unschooling they immediately think of *anti school* ( have been told that by
several people), and I don't want to be * anti school* school is not for us right
now but I am not *anti* it. I prefer to not even think about it at all.
Our (dh and I) parenting has nothing at all to do with school so I feel that
*radical unschooler* is even more of a mis-labeling. We live consensually
and right now my children choose to live and learn and explore etc. But when
I think about it if they decided to use a curriculum or text book to learn a
particular topic I would not stop them, also I would not consider us NOT
unschooling, some may though. I prefer to just live our lives moving through the
different phases with ease. Not popping in and out of a *category* called
unschooling, depending on what we are doing that particular day.
Anyway this is going off topic, LOL to the question asked.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
If unschooling is not doing school, then how is going to school
unschooling?
If someone believes they need someone to decide what they need to
know and need someone to teach it to them, then even if they're given
the freedom to choose school or stay home, they aren't unschooling if
they choose school.
They aren't even unschooling if they stay home and choose curriculum.
*What* someone does doesn't define unschooling. *Why* someone chooses
something is what will define whether someone is unschooling or not.<<<<<<
Not sure I understand. Personally I don't define unschooling as "not going
to school". School is not even in my definition.
But first you say "...they aren't unschooling if they choose school. They
aren't even unschooling if they stay home and choose curriculum." then you go
on to say "*What* someone does doesn't define unschooling. *Why* someone
chooses something is what will define whether someone is unschooling or not."
Those two things doing seem to say the same thing. You are saying you
aren't unschooling if you use curriculum then say it isn't the *what* but the
*why*. Sounds a bit confusing to me.
Personally I don't label myself an unschooler or radical unschooler outside
of these "groups" really. It helps me find more like minded individuals in
one sense, like on lists and in homeschool groups where the focus is on
*education*. But what we do is more than unschooling. I personally believe the
label itself binds you to defining things in *school* terms. And when you tell
someone ( who is unfamiliar with homeschooling or unschooling) you are
unschooling they immediately think of *anti school* ( have been told that by
several people), and I don't want to be * anti school* school is not for us right
now but I am not *anti* it. I prefer to not even think about it at all.
Our (dh and I) parenting has nothing at all to do with school so I feel that
*radical unschooler* is even more of a mis-labeling. We live consensually
and right now my children choose to live and learn and explore etc. But when
I think about it if they decided to use a curriculum or text book to learn a
particular topic I would not stop them, also I would not consider us NOT
unschooling, some may though. I prefer to just live our lives moving through the
different phases with ease. Not popping in and out of a *category* called
unschooling, depending on what we are doing that particular day.
Anyway this is going off topic, LOL to the question asked.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 16, 2006, at 3:59 PM, Genant2@... wrote:
It was John Holt's original definition. At the time 7-Up was the
UnCola and that inspired the word unschooling which was not doing
school.
I think unschooling is way more than that but in the context of
discussing defining unschooling as any instance of learning out of
interest even while in school, it seemed useful.
We can't know why someone's doing something so we can't define
unschooling -- in a way that will help people understand it -- by
what kids are doing. Is a child building a model rocket unschooling?
Is a child doing problems from a textbook unschooling? Maybe the
model rocket kid would rather be playing a video game but his mom
gets nervous unless he's doing something that looks educational.
Maybe the textbook kid just loves math problems like puzzles and
treats the textbook like he does sudoku puzzle books.
It's more helpful to talk about unschooling in terms of values: joy,
pursuing and valuing interests, creating a happy childhood, what
valuing a child's interests looks like (something other than
happiness and relief when they're doing something on their own that
they might do in school!), respect them (beyond the times when
they're doing what we want) and so on.
When people ask "Do unschoolers use workbooks?"
I want to reply "Don't ask that question!" ;-)
On the surface the simple answer is "Yes, some do." But *why* is
someone asking? And what do they mean by "use"?
Do unschoolers use coloring books?
If a child asks for and enjoys workbooks, is doing a workbook
unschooling? Depends! Depends if the mom trusts unschooling and isn't
breathing a sigh of relief when the child does a workbook. Depends if
the child is still deschooling and sees workbooks as essential to
learning.
their kids to school would say they're living life too so we need
something we can point at and define and describe to help others do
it. To help people do it we need more than "just live life". We need
more than "learn what interests you". What we discuss on the lists is
less about what we do and more about describing what we do in a way
that will help someone understand it and get past the roadblocks that
are in their way.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Not sure I understand. Personally I don't define unschooling asNot *doing* school. Important distinction!
> "not going
> to school". School is not even in my definition.
It was John Holt's original definition. At the time 7-Up was the
UnCola and that inspired the word unschooling which was not doing
school.
I think unschooling is way more than that but in the context of
discussing defining unschooling as any instance of learning out of
interest even while in school, it seemed useful.
> Those two things doing seem to say the same thing. You are saying youI thought of that as I hit send ;-) But, yeah, it is confusing!
> aren't unschooling if you use curriculum then say it isn't the
> *what* but the
> *why*. Sounds a bit confusing to me.
We can't know why someone's doing something so we can't define
unschooling -- in a way that will help people understand it -- by
what kids are doing. Is a child building a model rocket unschooling?
Is a child doing problems from a textbook unschooling? Maybe the
model rocket kid would rather be playing a video game but his mom
gets nervous unless he's doing something that looks educational.
Maybe the textbook kid just loves math problems like puzzles and
treats the textbook like he does sudoku puzzle books.
It's more helpful to talk about unschooling in terms of values: joy,
pursuing and valuing interests, creating a happy childhood, what
valuing a child's interests looks like (something other than
happiness and relief when they're doing something on their own that
they might do in school!), respect them (beyond the times when
they're doing what we want) and so on.
When people ask "Do unschoolers use workbooks?"
I want to reply "Don't ask that question!" ;-)
On the surface the simple answer is "Yes, some do." But *why* is
someone asking? And what do they mean by "use"?
Do unschoolers use coloring books?
If a child asks for and enjoys workbooks, is doing a workbook
unschooling? Depends! Depends if the mom trusts unschooling and isn't
breathing a sigh of relief when the child does a workbook. Depends if
the child is still deschooling and sees workbooks as essential to
learning.
> Personally I don't label myself an unschooler or radical unschoolerWhat unschoolers do in real life is live life :-) But people who send
> outside
> of these "groups" really.
their kids to school would say they're living life too so we need
something we can point at and define and describe to help others do
it. To help people do it we need more than "just live life". We need
more than "learn what interests you". What we discuss on the lists is
less about what we do and more about describing what we do in a way
that will help someone understand it and get past the roadblocks that
are in their way.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]