hilltowner4

I was just reading an article in the most recent "Life Learning" about
trusting children. I trust my children in most issues (i.e. sleeping,
eating, learning, etc.), but, as you can tell from my posts, I have a
lot of trouble trusting them with conflict resolution. Part of this
is because neither my husband or I have ever done very well in this
area. We've been trying to work on it, but have a long way to go
(although I am going to take a workshop this month by Marshall
Rosenberg on non-violent communication that should help).

How do I let go of this issue? My 7 yo. dd and 3 yo. dd are very
high-spirited and can get very physical during arguments. I just feel
that since I'm not yet modeling the tools they need for resolution,
that I need to remind them to ask for what they need, etc. To guide
them during their arguments to a more peaceable way of working together.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Angela S.

I think it's a huge mistake to let children *work thing out on their own.
(e.g. fight) They often don't have the words to communicate their feelings.



When my children were smaller and were having more difficulties than
normal I would make sure I was right there with them to help them with their
words *before a conflict happened. It has made our lives VERY peaceful in
the long run and my children (now almost 10 and 11.75) are great at
communicating now and rarely need help.



I do not know any other family where the children get along so well and
treat each other half as respectfully as my children treat each other. In
fact, the more friends they have and see interact with their own families,
the more they appreciate our family and each other. I am not sorry one bit
for all the time I took to help the girls problem solve over and over again
when they were small.



I've read Marshall Rosenberg and while I think he has some wonderful ideas
that I've incorporated into our lives, I never could get past the feeling
that the way he advocates speaking seems so fake. It's not that I didn't
get something out of it; I got a lot out of it. But remember that you don't
have to incorporate that stilted language and every aspect of what he
teaches to help your family communicate with each other better. Good luck!



Angela

game-enthusiast@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 1, 2006, at 12:32 PM, hilltowner4 wrote:

> How do I let go of this issue? My 7 yo. dd and 3 yo. dd are very
> high-spirited and can get very physical during arguments. I just feel
> that since I'm not yet modeling the tools they need for resolution,
> that I need to remind them to ask for what they need, etc. To guide
> them during their arguments to a more peaceable way of working
> together.

Trust that they're doing the best they can with the tools and
understanding they have.

But *don't* trust that they'll figure out peaceful coexistence on
their own. Especially since the 7 yo is bigger and can "fix" things
by learning how to bully.

Rather than seeing your job as teaching them how to interact and
solve problems, see your role as keeping them safe and *helping* them
figure out new strategies. Call one away to do something when tempers
are flaring. *Trust* that they really don't *want* to hurt each
other. They just don't have the tools or maybe even the ability to
stop and take another route. Do talk about other choices later.

Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? IT's a very easy read.

Sandra Dodd has some good stuff about conflicts on her website:

http://sandradodd.com/life

And there's more here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/influencing%20kid%
20behavior/siblingsfighting.html

written by others since I only have one and sibling fights haven't
been much of a problem ;-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>I never could get past the feeling
that the way he advocates speaking seems so fake<<<

Marla - The response to your question was great, and very informative. She
really had a lot of great things to say, backed up with experience since her
children are older now.

When I am with 2 children, I validate and mirror each childs feelings. Thus,
I do not take sides. I just repeat in my words what each child has just
said. I continue to do this, until they resolve it on their own. I am there to
make sure no one gets hurt, but stand back coaching to help them resolve on
their own. I think that Thomas Gordon in PET talks about this. It is also very
helpful when dealing with a friend or spouse.

I can appreciate the other posts opinon on NVC. My experience with NVC has
been nothing short of awesome!!! I don't want you to get discouraged or
scared about your workshop that you are going. I think that if a person is
authentic when they speak in NVC, then what they say will sound authentic. If you
are just reciting it, then it certainly could sound fake. If you are feeling
it, then it will sound authentic. We read this book for a book club that I was
in. I printed up a sheet with feelings, on it. When (or afterwards to
reconnect) my dh and I get into a dispute, we pull the sheet out and identify what
we are feeling. I think this is very helpful for men, since they often were
not allowed to identify or have feelings. This method has helped more marriages
with the people that I know, than any other method. It is so simple. If you
go to the seminar, and your dh doesn't, you can just give him the sheet of
NVC. My dh never read or attended a seminar. He just used the one page sheet
that I made up. I will see if I can post it to the homepage. In times where
I am feeling heated, it gives me a "script" to fall back on; since I am not
much in "thinking' mode at that time. It helps me to focus on my feelings,
rather than the other person being annoying, rude, irritating, mean, etc. I feel
that identifying and expressing feelings is modelled to children, they have a
great basis for futher communication. My ds is only 3, but he has already
started expressing how he feels.

Good luck, and enjoy the seminar.

Warmly,
Cynthia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 9/1/06, hilltowner4 <marla@...> wrote:
> I was just reading an article in the most recent "Life Learning" about
> trusting children. I trust my children in most issues (i.e. sleeping,
> eating, learning, etc.), but, as you can tell from my posts, I have a
> lot of trouble trusting them with conflict resolution.

First off, do you really think that a 7yo and a 3yo have the tools for
effective conflict resolution? I don't. I would think that one of
two things happens in your house (maybe both and maybe at the same
time). 1. Your children argue to a point where it esculates into a
loud roar with everyone angry (including you because they have caused
you to hear them fighting yet again.) 2. They come to you to "make"
the other one do __________. (Blank being "be nice" "share" "change
the tv" "stop breathing her air" etc.)

>
> How do I let go of this issue? My 7 yo. dd and 3 yo. dd are very
> high-spirited and can get very physical during arguments.

Please don't take this harshly, but where are you when this is going
on? Are you in another room involved in your own thing or are you
sitting on the sidelines waiting for them to figure it out? Be *with*
them. They really need you at this age especially if they have not
had good models before. Try to avoid the conflicts by circumventing
them or heading them off before they start. Be proactive in seeing
when a conflict might happen and put the brakes on it by going into
action to help them not have to argue or fight. Look at what their
most common complaints are and see what you can do to fix that. We
had a problem with three kids wanting to watch 3 different things on
tv (or use tv in 3 different ways such as PS2, PIU, DVD) at the same
time. Our solution? Three tv's and a DVR! that didn't completely
solve the problem, but it still helped ease many many arguments over
who gets to watch what when.

How do your children see you dealing with conflict resolutions? A
phrase that I heard often when I was growing up was, "It will be
interesting to see how you work this out." My mom said it to us when
we were fighting over tv (and, gosh, we only had 4 stations on a black
and white tv with rabbit ears! LOL!) or when we were having issues
with friends (or teachers) at school. We were never given effective
tools yet we were expected to find our own solutions. I will admit
that I do use that phrase often, but with adults. Like my friend who
decided to park in a handicap parking spot because it was raining and
she was only running in for one thing and ended up with a $500 parking
ticket and whined that it "wasn't fair" that all the good spots are
taken up by handicap spaces. I just looked at her and said, "It will
be interesting how you work this out." However, my child coming to me
because his sister came in and cleared off aproject he was working on
from the table without asking him first needs me to be involved.
They've asked for my help and I am going to offer it. Your children
are asking for your help as well, even if they aren't coming directly
to you and saying, "Mom, help us work this out." If you heard your
child crying because they had fallen would you go to them? Yes. If
your child fell because there was a spilled glass of water on the
kitchen floor wouldn't you clean it up so that the next time your
child wouldn't spill? And (better yet) if you saw a puddle of water
on the kitchen floor and you knew that your child could (not
necessarily would) slip on it wouldn't you clean it up to keep that
from happening? Helping our children with conflict resolution is much
like cleaning up a spill on the floor, answering to a cry of pain (or
frustration) from a fall and observing why those falls happen in the
first place and what we can do to prevent them in the future.

--
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Check out my homeschool cooking classes!

Beth Mouser

--- In [email protected], "Michelle Leifur Reid"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>> >
> Please don't take this harshly, but where are you when this is
going
> on? Are you in another room involved in your own thing or are you
> sitting on the sidelines waiting for them to figure it out? Be
*with*
> them.

I agree, Michelle, that it is best to be with your kids. However,
you mention later that your child was upset when a sibling cleared
her project off the table without permission...where were you when
this occurred?

I don't feel any of us can always watch our kids all of the time.


> We had a problem with three kids wanting to watch 3 different
things on
> tv (or use tv in 3 different ways such as PS2, PIU, DVD) at the
same
> time. Our solution? Three tv's and a DVR! that didn't completely
> solve the problem, but it still helped ease many many arguments

I wonder then if there are arguments over who gets to watch a
program in the living room versus the basement or their bedroom. "I
don't want to watch football downstairs". You got to watch your
shows out here yesterday!". I suspect more TVs would help, but you
will not eliminate issues over using them.

I have been following this thread with interest because my younger
son (10) feels like I don't really ever punish older brother (12)
when he teases or bullies him. He accuses me of "not really doing
anything about it." I studied the "PET" book in college and it is
helpful in many circumstances and I use it alot by stating what is
going on and feelings behind situation. However, there are really
no punishments in that book for when one of the kids has done
something wrong to another sibling.

I guess my question is do radical unschoolers actually ever punish
their children or do they stop at reflecting feelings when a
conflict does escalate or a child does something very unfair and
unkind to a sibling?

BTW, I did like how you say "It will be interesting to see how you
work this out?" I am going to try to start saying that when the
opportunity presents itself.

Regards,
Beth
>

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 9/3/06, Beth Mouser <mouser4@...> wrote:
>
> I agree, Michelle, that it is best to be with your kids. However,
> you mention later that your child was upset when a sibling cleared
> her project off the table without permission...where were you when
> this occurred?

Actually I was with the third child helping her learn how to
embroidery. :) And my oldest child did not recognize that my son's
project was a project. He was building something with Legos and had
left them there. She didn't realize that it was something that he was
still working on and cleared them off to have space for something she
wanted to do. She actually thought she was doing a good thing :)

>
> I don't feel any of us can always watch our kids all of the time.
>

It's a matter of choice. What do you choose to do? My children
enjoy spending some time alone and do. We also spend *a lot* of time
together, though. I watch hours of them playing video games or
watching their shows with them (I usually knit or embroidery or sew
while I do these things because honestly there are only so many times
that I can watch the same episodes of Full Metal Alchemist) Sometimes
I just sit in the room where they are and listen to them interact
while doing my own thing. Sometimes I am an active participant in
their play or projects. Sometimes they ask me to go away. :)


>
> > We had a problem with three kids wanting to watch 3 different
> things on
> > tv (or use tv in 3 different ways such as PS2, PIU, DVD) at the
> same
> > time. Our solution? Three tv's and a DVR! that didn't completely
> > solve the problem, but it still helped ease many many arguments
>
> I wonder then if there are arguments over who gets to watch a
> program in the living room versus the basement or their bedroom. "I
> don't want to watch football downstairs".

Oh sure. I didn't say it resolved all the problems, but it did
significantly help in such a way that if I needed a fourth tv to
further help I would buy one. I was just using the tv scenario as an
example of finding ways to lessen avoidable conflicts. We have a much
larger house than I had ever wanted, but I had 5 people who all wanted
their own space. This was the way that we chose to honor that. We
chose to have a larger house and a larger house payment in order to
meet some needs that the members of the family have.

> I guess my question is do radical unschoolers actually ever punish
> their children or do they stop at reflecting feelings when a
> conflict does escalate or a child does something very unfair and
> unkind to a sibling?

What purpose does punishment serve in being respectful to another
person? We think in punitive terms because of our society. "You do
something bad, you serve time." That goes for murder as well as
squabbling with a sibling. Does punishment work? I would look at how
many repeat offenders we have in our prisons as an answer. Even the
states that have "three strikes then life" have not had much of an
impact on repeat offenders. They only stop after three times because
they don't have the ability to offend any longer. Parental
punishments are much the same just on a more local and smaller scale -
but generally with the same results. If you have used punishment in
the past as a means for controlling a situation, has it worked? In
the long run? Or are you still punishing for the same "offenses?"


>
> BTW, I did like how you say "It will be interesting to see how you
> work this out?" I am going to try to start saying that when the
> opportunity presents itself.
>

Like I said, I don't use it with my children because it is not an
effective tool in helping them learn to resolve conflict. I DO use it
when friends or other people come to me with a problem and want my
involvement when it is something I truly don't want to be involved
with.

--
Michelle
Michelle Leifur Reid
YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Check out my homeschool cooking classes!

hilltowner4

Hi Michelle,

I appreciate all of your wonderful insights. As I mentioned, I do
believe in giving our children conflict resolution tools. It's just
that I had just read an article in "Life Learning" that said the
complete opposite. So, as I usually do, I put it out to the group to
see if anyone else had a similar experience and if I was missing
something contrary to what I was currently doing.

The responses have been very helpful in reaffirming that I am doing
the right thing by being there and helping them with their conflicts.
Unfortunately, I was never taught the appropriate way to resolve
conflict, so I am continuing to learn along with them and sometimes
feel like I am lacking good tools. So, I continue to lurk, post, and
read in hopes to fill my own tool box with good stuff.

Thanks again for your time. Don't worry, I'm doing my best to wipe up
the spills, before my kids fall - lol.

Marla



--- In [email protected], "Michelle Leifur Reid"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/1/06, hilltowner4 <marla@...> wrote:
> > I was just reading an article in the most recent "Life Learning" about
> > trusting children. I trust my children in most issues (i.e. sleeping,
> > eating, learning, etc.), but, as you can tell from my posts, I have a
> > lot of trouble trusting them with conflict resolution.
>
> First off, do you really think that a 7yo and a 3yo have the tools for
> effective conflict resolution? I don't. I would think that one of
> two things happens in your house (maybe both and maybe at the same
> time). 1. Your children argue to a point where it esculates into a
> loud roar with everyone angry (including you because they have caused
> you to hear them fighting yet again.) 2. They come to you to "make"
> the other one do __________. (Blank being "be nice" "share" "change
> the tv" "stop breathing her air" etc.)
>
> >
> > How do I let go of this issue? My 7 yo. dd and 3 yo. dd are very
> > high-spirited and can get very physical during arguments.
>
> Please don't take this harshly, but where are you when this is going
> on? Are you in another room involved in your own thing or are you
> sitting on the sidelines waiting for them to figure it out? Be *with*
> them. They really need you at this age especially if they have not
> had good models before. Try to avoid the conflicts by circumventing
> them or heading them off before they start. Be proactive in seeing
> when a conflict might happen and put the brakes on it by going into
> action to help them not have to argue or fight. Look at what their
> most common complaints are and see what you can do to fix that. We
> had a problem with three kids wanting to watch 3 different things on
> tv (or use tv in 3 different ways such as PS2, PIU, DVD) at the same
> time. Our solution? Three tv's and a DVR! that didn't completely
> solve the problem, but it still helped ease many many arguments over
> who gets to watch what when.
>
> How do your children see you dealing with conflict resolutions? A
> phrase that I heard often when I was growing up was, "It will be
> interesting to see how you work this out." My mom said it to us when
> we were fighting over tv (and, gosh, we only had 4 stations on a black
> and white tv with rabbit ears! LOL!) or when we were having issues
> with friends (or teachers) at school. We were never given effective
> tools yet we were expected to find our own solutions. I will admit
> that I do use that phrase often, but with adults. Like my friend who
> decided to park in a handicap parking spot because it was raining and
> she was only running in for one thing and ended up with a $500 parking
> ticket and whined that it "wasn't fair" that all the good spots are
> taken up by handicap spaces. I just looked at her and said, "It will
> be interesting how you work this out." However, my child coming to me
> because his sister came in and cleared off aproject he was working on
> from the table without asking him first needs me to be involved.
> They've asked for my help and I am going to offer it. Your children
> are asking for your help as well, even if they aren't coming directly
> to you and saying, "Mom, help us work this out." If you heard your
> child crying because they had fallen would you go to them? Yes. If
> your child fell because there was a spilled glass of water on the
> kitchen floor wouldn't you clean it up so that the next time your
> child wouldn't spill? And (better yet) if you saw a puddle of water
> on the kitchen floor and you knew that your child could (not
> necessarily would) slip on it wouldn't you clean it up to keep that
> from happening? Helping our children with conflict resolution is much
> like cleaning up a spill on the floor, answering to a cry of pain (or
> frustration) from a fall and observing why those falls happen in the
> first place and what we can do to prevent them in the future.
>
> --
> Michelle
> Michelle Leifur Reid
> YOUR Pampered Chef Consultant
> 850-474-0817
> http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
> Check out my homeschool cooking classes!
>