Processing time?
Lesa ODaniel
I'm hoping for some insight into my 2-year old. We've had some difficulty in
the last month that is confusing me. It doesn't happen all the time - maybe
once per week - but when it does happen, it is intense! Here's an example
from tonight:
He wanted to get some cookies which we didn't have in the house so I offered
to walk to the store with him to get some before it got dark. This store has
a few different coin operated rides in front so I dug up enough quarters to
ride 3 rides. He liked this idea and carried the quarters the whole time we
were in the store preparing for his riding adventure. When we were through
at the store (maybe a 5-minute shopping trip), we went outside and I asked
him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I said,
"yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just sat
there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just kept
saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he protested
and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
cookies" and we walked on our way. He seemed just fine until we got to our
block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
helicopter. I said that I was sorry but we were home now and it was too dark
and far to turn back (we're not in the *safest* neighborhood and it's about
a 15-minute walk to the store). He freaked out and just started
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter. I kept explaining how we were
too far from the store and it was already dark, etc., etc. When we got into
the house he knocked a dining room chair down onto the floor and then threw
himself down onto the floor and started banging his head! He's never done
this before. I guess I've seen other kids throw "tantrums" before but my
son's "tantrums" seem to only last for about a minute and I actually don't
consider him throwing true tantrums until tonight. I couldn't take the head
banging and got down on the ground with him and offered to nurse him which
he accepted and seemed to begin to calm down a bit. We talked about how we
could go ride the helicopter in the morning when it would be light outside
and he seemed to be pleased with that - although still not fully satisfied,
I think.
Like I said, he's done this a couple times this month (although not to the
extremity of banging his head and thrashing around like tonight). It seems
to be when he is offered the opportunity to do something and maybe doesn't
have enough time to process the choices. Sometimes he does this when daddy
is going to work and my son is engaged in something else (cars, watching a
TV show, playing outside, etc.). I'll remind him that daddy is going to work
and ask if he wants to say goodbye or give a hug/kiss and he'll be so
engrossed in the activity that he either doesn't hear me or decides to stay
with the activity instead (my husband will even give him a kiss that he
doesn't seem to notice). As soon as daddy pulls out of the driveway, my son
runs to the door and starts crying that he didn't get a chance to say
goodbye...
I guess I'm looking for another way to see this sort of situation or another
way to present all his options to him along with enough time to choose to
his satisfaction. Like I said, he doesn't do this all the time but I want to
anticipate this in the future when he's faced with choices between things he
really likes to do (and I'm not trying to make his choices either/or sorts
of things, by the way). Thanks for any ideas!
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Spaces is here! It�s easy to create your own personal Web site.
http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
the last month that is confusing me. It doesn't happen all the time - maybe
once per week - but when it does happen, it is intense! Here's an example
from tonight:
He wanted to get some cookies which we didn't have in the house so I offered
to walk to the store with him to get some before it got dark. This store has
a few different coin operated rides in front so I dug up enough quarters to
ride 3 rides. He liked this idea and carried the quarters the whole time we
were in the store preparing for his riding adventure. When we were through
at the store (maybe a 5-minute shopping trip), we went outside and I asked
him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I said,
"yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just sat
there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just kept
saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he protested
and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
cookies" and we walked on our way. He seemed just fine until we got to our
block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
helicopter. I said that I was sorry but we were home now and it was too dark
and far to turn back (we're not in the *safest* neighborhood and it's about
a 15-minute walk to the store). He freaked out and just started
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter. I kept explaining how we were
too far from the store and it was already dark, etc., etc. When we got into
the house he knocked a dining room chair down onto the floor and then threw
himself down onto the floor and started banging his head! He's never done
this before. I guess I've seen other kids throw "tantrums" before but my
son's "tantrums" seem to only last for about a minute and I actually don't
consider him throwing true tantrums until tonight. I couldn't take the head
banging and got down on the ground with him and offered to nurse him which
he accepted and seemed to begin to calm down a bit. We talked about how we
could go ride the helicopter in the morning when it would be light outside
and he seemed to be pleased with that - although still not fully satisfied,
I think.
Like I said, he's done this a couple times this month (although not to the
extremity of banging his head and thrashing around like tonight). It seems
to be when he is offered the opportunity to do something and maybe doesn't
have enough time to process the choices. Sometimes he does this when daddy
is going to work and my son is engaged in something else (cars, watching a
TV show, playing outside, etc.). I'll remind him that daddy is going to work
and ask if he wants to say goodbye or give a hug/kiss and he'll be so
engrossed in the activity that he either doesn't hear me or decides to stay
with the activity instead (my husband will even give him a kiss that he
doesn't seem to notice). As soon as daddy pulls out of the driveway, my son
runs to the door and starts crying that he didn't get a chance to say
goodbye...
I guess I'm looking for another way to see this sort of situation or another
way to present all his options to him along with enough time to choose to
his satisfaction. Like I said, he doesn't do this all the time but I want to
anticipate this in the future when he's faced with choices between things he
really likes to do (and I'm not trying to make his choices either/or sorts
of things, by the way). Thanks for any ideas!
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Spaces is here! It�s easy to create your own personal Web site.
http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
Ren Allen
"He freaked out and just started
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter."
It's almost impossible for them to sort out cause and effect at that
age. Maybe I'm missing something, but why on earth couldn't you have
handed him a cookie right there when he actually ASKED for it? That
seems very random and strange to me, that he couldn't just have what
he wanted and THEN ride the rides.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter."
It's almost impossible for them to sort out cause and effect at that
age. Maybe I'm missing something, but why on earth couldn't you have
handed him a cookie right there when he actually ASKED for it? That
seems very random and strange to me, that he couldn't just have what
he wanted and THEN ride the rides.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Lesa ODaniel
You know - as I was typing this up and sorting through it all I had that
thought - that maybe he thought I was saying he could ride the rides OR have
cookies when I wasn't saying that. However, I guess it did sound like those
were his options since I was thinking of cookies at home. I could have just
given him a cookie from the bag and then asked which ride he wanted.
Unfortunately I didn't think of it until we were home and the meltdown was
over. Duh!
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live
Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
thought - that maybe he thought I was saying he could ride the rides OR have
cookies when I wasn't saying that. However, I guess it did sound like those
were his options since I was thinking of cookies at home. I could have just
given him a cookie from the bag and then asked which ride he wanted.
Unfortunately I didn't think of it until we were home and the meltdown was
over. Duh!
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
>From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Processing time?
>Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:55:28 -0000
>
>"He freaked out and just started
>crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter."
>
>It's almost impossible for them to sort out cause and effect at that
>age. Maybe I'm missing something, but why on earth couldn't you have
>handed him a cookie right there when he actually ASKED for it? That
>seems very random and strange to me, that he couldn't just have what
>he wanted and THEN ride the rides.
>
>Ren
>learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live
Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
Solé
I don't know if this is "unschooling", but my first thought when I
read your post was that he might be too young to handle many options.
As you yourself stated, he cannot handle them. So why don't you
"lead" him and make decissions for him as long as he needs to. For
such a young child too many options might be too overwhelming, and
time is not relevant yet and maybe not really something he can take
into account. He lives in "NOW". I dunno where, but I read that
someone would just decide for their very youngest in such a way: "ok,
now you can have a ride on the blue one". if that is ok with the
child and he is happy with it, you don't need to give other options.
If the child would say "no, but I want the red one", then you'd say
"ok, then, the red one, let's go!". You take the information
available for you at the time to make the best decission for your
very young child, as he seems not able to do so yet. But as soon you
see he is actually starting to see the different choises he has and
wants to make use of them, he WILL say it and THEN you have new
information and can use it to AGREE (saying yes). As he grows, he
will want to make more and more decissions when he is able to handle
it and he will show it when the time is right. If you don't fight it
THEN I don't think it's bad to make choises now for him, as long as
you take into account the information you have (about his favourite
rides, favourite cookies etc, what he likes, needs etc). (Now I
repeated everthing again and again... I'm sorry.. sometimes I have
the feeling that I cannot explain very well what I mean and so I
start a new sentence explaining it agan... <:-) )
Or is this not unschooling?
Johanna
Am 01.09.2006 um 07:37 schrieb Lesa ODaniel:
read your post was that he might be too young to handle many options.
As you yourself stated, he cannot handle them. So why don't you
"lead" him and make decissions for him as long as he needs to. For
such a young child too many options might be too overwhelming, and
time is not relevant yet and maybe not really something he can take
into account. He lives in "NOW". I dunno where, but I read that
someone would just decide for their very youngest in such a way: "ok,
now you can have a ride on the blue one". if that is ok with the
child and he is happy with it, you don't need to give other options.
If the child would say "no, but I want the red one", then you'd say
"ok, then, the red one, let's go!". You take the information
available for you at the time to make the best decission for your
very young child, as he seems not able to do so yet. But as soon you
see he is actually starting to see the different choises he has and
wants to make use of them, he WILL say it and THEN you have new
information and can use it to AGREE (saying yes). As he grows, he
will want to make more and more decissions when he is able to handle
it and he will show it when the time is right. If you don't fight it
THEN I don't think it's bad to make choises now for him, as long as
you take into account the information you have (about his favourite
rides, favourite cookies etc, what he likes, needs etc). (Now I
repeated everthing again and again... I'm sorry.. sometimes I have
the feeling that I cannot explain very well what I mean and so I
start a new sentence explaining it agan... <:-) )
Or is this not unschooling?
Johanna
Am 01.09.2006 um 07:37 schrieb Lesa ODaniel:
> You know - as I was typing this up and sorting through it all I had
> that
> thought - that maybe he thought I was saying he could ride the
> rides OR have
> cookies when I wasn't saying that. However, I guess it did sound
> like those
> were his options since I was thinking of cookies at home. I could
> have just
> given him a cookie from the bag and then asked which ride he wanted.
> Unfortunately I didn't think of it until we were home and the
> meltdown was
> over. Duh!
>
>
>
> Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
> Instructor, Bradley Method® of Natural Childbirth
> 323-541-5515
> http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Processing time?
>> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:55:28 -0000
>>
>> "He freaked out and just started
>> crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter."
>>
>> It's almost impossible for them to sort out cause and effect at that
>> age. Maybe I'm missing something, but why on earth couldn't you have
>> handed him a cookie right there when he actually ASKED for it? That
>> seems very random and strange to me, that he couldn't just have what
>> he wanted and THEN ride the rides.
>>
>> Ren
>> learninginfreedom.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE
> Windows Live
> Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
julialovemore
Hi there,
and there? It sure sounds like that's what your son wanted to do. He wanted to eat a cookie
or two first, and then have a ride. It's no point trying to interest him in the ride - he's telling
you what he wants to do, eat a cookie first, other things later!
>we went outside and I askedHave you ever fancied some food and bought it from the store and then eaten it right then
> him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I said,
> "yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just sat
> there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just kept
> saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
> helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he protested
> and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
> cookies" and we walked on our way. He seemed just fine until we got to our
> block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
> helicopter. >
and there? It sure sounds like that's what your son wanted to do. He wanted to eat a cookie
or two first, and then have a ride. It's no point trying to interest him in the ride - he's telling
you what he wants to do, eat a cookie first, other things later!
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: lesaodaniel@...
He wanted to get some cookies which we didn't have in the house so I
offered
to walk to the store with him to get some before it got dark. This
store has
a few different coin operated rides in front so I dug up enough
quarters to
ride 3 rides. He liked this idea and carried the quarters the whole
time we
were in the store preparing for his riding adventure. When we were
through
at the store (maybe a 5-minute shopping trip), we went outside and I
asked
him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I
said,
"yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just
sat
there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just
kept
saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he
protested
and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
cookies" and we walked on our way.
-=-=-=-=-
So, in his little mind, he said, "cookies," and y'all walk to get the
cookies. You GET the cookies and he says, "cookies" and you say,
"helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says,
"cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "Let's
go home to eat cookies." He says," OK."---probably thinking that you
can go BACK to the store for the helicopter (like you went BACK to the
store for the cookies).
-=-=-=-=-
He seemed just fine until we got to our
block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
helicopter. I said that I was sorry but we were home now and it was too
dark
and far to turn back (we're not in the *safest* neighborhood and it's
about
a 15-minute walk to the store). He freaked out and just started
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter. I kept explaining how we
were
too far from the store and it was already dark, etc., etc.
-=-=-=-==-
So then he says "helicopter" and you talk gibberish. <g>
-=-=-=-=-
When we got into
the house he knocked a dining room chair down onto the floor and then
threw
himself down onto the floor and started banging his head! He's never
done
this before. I guess I've seen other kids throw "tantrums" before but
my
son's "tantrums" seem to only last for about a minute and I actually
don't
consider him throwing true tantrums until tonight. I couldn't take the
head
banging and got down on the ground with him and offered to nurse him
which
he accepted and seemed to begin to calm down a bit. We talked about how
we
could go ride the helicopter in the morning when it would be light
outside
and he seemed to be pleased with that - although still not fully
satisfied,
I think.
-=-=-=-=-
Jeezus! I'd be banging MY head against the floor too!
-=-=-=-
Like I said, he's done this a couple times this month (although not to
the
extremity of banging his head and thrashing around like tonight). It
seems
to be when he is offered the opportunity to do something and maybe
doesn't
have enough time to process the choices.
-=-=-=-=-
Or he's not understanding why, when he says "cookies," you're offering
a helicopter. Yet when he wants the helicopter, you're offering
cookies. <G> HUGE language barrier! <G>
-=-=-=-=
Was there a reason he couldn't have a cookie as soon as you walked out
of the store and eat it while riding the helicopter?
Was it really an either/or situation?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: lesaodaniel@...
He wanted to get some cookies which we didn't have in the house so I
offered
to walk to the store with him to get some before it got dark. This
store has
a few different coin operated rides in front so I dug up enough
quarters to
ride 3 rides. He liked this idea and carried the quarters the whole
time we
were in the store preparing for his riding adventure. When we were
through
at the store (maybe a 5-minute shopping trip), we went outside and I
asked
him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I
said,
"yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just
sat
there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just
kept
saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he
protested
and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
cookies" and we walked on our way.
-=-=-=-=-
So, in his little mind, he said, "cookies," and y'all walk to get the
cookies. You GET the cookies and he says, "cookies" and you say,
"helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says,
"cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "Let's
go home to eat cookies." He says," OK."---probably thinking that you
can go BACK to the store for the helicopter (like you went BACK to the
store for the cookies).
-=-=-=-=-
He seemed just fine until we got to our
block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
helicopter. I said that I was sorry but we were home now and it was too
dark
and far to turn back (we're not in the *safest* neighborhood and it's
about
a 15-minute walk to the store). He freaked out and just started
crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter. I kept explaining how we
were
too far from the store and it was already dark, etc., etc.
-=-=-=-==-
So then he says "helicopter" and you talk gibberish. <g>
-=-=-=-=-
When we got into
the house he knocked a dining room chair down onto the floor and then
threw
himself down onto the floor and started banging his head! He's never
done
this before. I guess I've seen other kids throw "tantrums" before but
my
son's "tantrums" seem to only last for about a minute and I actually
don't
consider him throwing true tantrums until tonight. I couldn't take the
head
banging and got down on the ground with him and offered to nurse him
which
he accepted and seemed to begin to calm down a bit. We talked about how
we
could go ride the helicopter in the morning when it would be light
outside
and he seemed to be pleased with that - although still not fully
satisfied,
I think.
-=-=-=-=-
Jeezus! I'd be banging MY head against the floor too!
-=-=-=-
Like I said, he's done this a couple times this month (although not to
the
extremity of banging his head and thrashing around like tonight). It
seems
to be when he is offered the opportunity to do something and maybe
doesn't
have enough time to process the choices.
-=-=-=-=-
Or he's not understanding why, when he says "cookies," you're offering
a helicopter. Yet when he wants the helicopter, you're offering
cookies. <G> HUGE language barrier! <G>
-=-=-=-=
Was there a reason he couldn't have a cookie as soon as you walked out
of the store and eat it while riding the helicopter?
Was it really an either/or situation?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
I remember everyone of my children doing similar things. I don't think that
it's a processing problem, simply that they are intent and focused. I would
get down to their level, cup their chin in my hand and ask them to focus on
my ("Look at My eyes please.")
It seemed to me from what you wrote that he wanted to eat a cookie right
then, before getting on the helicopter. Or on the helicopter. Why couldn't
he do them at the same time?
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
it's a processing problem, simply that they are intent and focused. I would
get down to their level, cup their chin in my hand and ask them to focus on
my ("Look at My eyes please.")
It seemed to me from what you wrote that he wanted to eat a cookie right
then, before getting on the helicopter. Or on the helicopter. Why couldn't
he do them at the same time?
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
Lesa ODaniel
<<Kelly wrote:
<Was there a reason he couldn't have a cookie as soon as you walked out
<of the store and eat it while riding the helicopter?
<Was it really an either/or situation?>>
**Thanks, Kelly. This post helped me see the flow of the conversation from
his side. While I didn't intend to make it an either/or thing it seems to
have felt like that to him because for some odd reason I was thinking we
were going to bring the cookies home and eat them. Now I see that when he
was saying cookies he was wanting one right then but I didn't understand it
that way. I just thought he was opting for "going home and eating cookies"
which is the way I was imagining it. You're right - huge language barrier.
Sometimes I'm surprised at how verbal he is and then how we still
occasionally struggle when we talk to each other. But the question I'm
asking myself during those times is "why doesn't he understand me when he is
usually so communicative?" The real question I should be asking is "why
don't I understand him right now? am I saying something that's confusing?"
Funny post, too. The humor took the sting out of the situation. By the way,
we're going to ride the helicopter this morning :)
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
Windows Live Spaces is here! It�s easy to create your own personal Web site.
http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
<Was there a reason he couldn't have a cookie as soon as you walked out
<of the store and eat it while riding the helicopter?
<Was it really an either/or situation?>>
**Thanks, Kelly. This post helped me see the flow of the conversation from
his side. While I didn't intend to make it an either/or thing it seems to
have felt like that to him because for some odd reason I was thinking we
were going to bring the cookies home and eat them. Now I see that when he
was saying cookies he was wanting one right then but I didn't understand it
that way. I just thought he was opting for "going home and eating cookies"
which is the way I was imagining it. You're right - huge language barrier.
Sometimes I'm surprised at how verbal he is and then how we still
occasionally struggle when we talk to each other. But the question I'm
asking myself during those times is "why doesn't he understand me when he is
usually so communicative?" The real question I should be asking is "why
don't I understand him right now? am I saying something that's confusing?"
Funny post, too. The humor took the sting out of the situation. By the way,
we're going to ride the helicopter this morning :)
Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
>From: kbcdlovejo@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Processing time?
>Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:45:06 -0400
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lesaodaniel@...
>
>He wanted to get some cookies which we didn't have in the house so I
>offered
>to walk to the store with him to get some before it got dark. This
>store has
>a few different coin operated rides in front so I dug up enough
>quarters to
>ride 3 rides. He liked this idea and carried the quarters the whole
>time we
>were in the store preparing for his riding adventure. When we were
>through
>at the store (maybe a 5-minute shopping trip), we went outside and I
>asked
>him which ride he wanted to ride first. His response was, "cookies". I
>said,
>"yes, we got the cookies already and here they are in the bag." He just
>sat
>there and stared. I asked again which one he wanted to ride and he just
>kept
>saying, "cookies". I took him to the one that's usually his favorite (a
>helicopter) and started to lead him up to the steps into it but he
>protested
>and said, "cooooookieeeees". So I said, "okay, let's go home and eat
>cookies" and we walked on our way.
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>
>So, in his little mind, he said, "cookies," and y'all walk to get the
>cookies. You GET the cookies and he says, "cookies" and you say,
>"helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says,
>"cookies." You say, "helicopter." He says, "cookies." You say, "Let's
>go home to eat cookies." He says," OK."---probably thinking that you
>can go BACK to the store for the helicopter (like you went BACK to the
>store for the cookies).
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>
>He seemed just fine until we got to our
>block about 3 houses from our home. He started to cry and asked for the
>helicopter. I said that I was sorry but we were home now and it was too
>dark
>and far to turn back (we're not in the *safest* neighborhood and it's
>about
>a 15-minute walk to the store). He freaked out and just started
>crying/sobbing/screaming for the helicopter. I kept explaining how we
>were
>too far from the store and it was already dark, etc., etc.
>
>-=-=-=-==-
>
>So then he says "helicopter" and you talk gibberish. <g>
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>
> When we got into
>the house he knocked a dining room chair down onto the floor and then
>threw
>himself down onto the floor and started banging his head! He's never
>done
>this before. I guess I've seen other kids throw "tantrums" before but
>my
>son's "tantrums" seem to only last for about a minute and I actually
>don't
>consider him throwing true tantrums until tonight. I couldn't take the
>head
>banging and got down on the ground with him and offered to nurse him
>which
>he accepted and seemed to begin to calm down a bit. We talked about how
>we
>could go ride the helicopter in the morning when it would be light
>outside
>and he seemed to be pleased with that - although still not fully
>satisfied,
>I think.
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>
>Jeezus! I'd be banging MY head against the floor too!
>
>-=-=-=-
>
>Like I said, he's done this a couple times this month (although not to
>the
>extremity of banging his head and thrashing around like tonight). It
>seems
>to be when he is offered the opportunity to do something and maybe
>doesn't
>have enough time to process the choices.
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>
>Or he's not understanding why, when he says "cookies," you're offering
>a helicopter. Yet when he wants the helicopter, you're offering
>cookies. <G> HUGE language barrier! <G>
>
>-=-=-=-=
>
>Was there a reason he couldn't have a cookie as soon as you walked out
>of the store and eat it while riding the helicopter?
>
>Was it really an either/or situation?
>
>
>~Kelly
>
>Kelly Lovejoy
>Conference Coordinator
>Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
>http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
>"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
>
>
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dana_burdick
I would
eye. My friend asked my son to look at her one day when she was
telling him some important information in order to be safe around
her pool. He told her, "I listen better if I don't have to look at
you." Luckily, she respected his request and talked to him without
requiring that he make eye contact.
I have worked with other children (in my job) who are uncomfortable
or unable to make eye contact with me. Most parents invariably ask
their child to look at me when I'm talking to him/her. I always
ask, "Please do not ask your child to look at me. I have other
clues that demonstrate to me that he has heard what I have said. If
I feel that he is not getting what I said, then I don't mind taking
the time to find out what works best for him." Here's a list of
some ways I have observed children listening at their best without
making eye contact: rolling on a big ball, sitting on a parent's
lap, drawing on a white board, rolling on the floor, spinning in a
chair. It _is_ more difficult for the person doing the talking to
get a good feel if someone has processed what they are saying
without getting the eye contact along with it. I feel that the eye
contact thing is often for the talker's convenience and not for the
listener, especially when it comes to children.
I was studying your words, "Look at My eyes, please." There is a
subtle difference compared to "Look at me, please." For some
children, I can see that the word change could make all the
difference to them. I worked with a boy that could not respond
at 'look at me', but could respond to 'look at my feet' (I was
demonstrating something with my feet at the time).
The important thing here is to look for what puts the child in the
best position for listening, for HIM.
> get down to their level, cup their chin in my hand and ask them tofocus on
> my ("Look at My eyes please.")Focusing on someone does not necessarily mean looking them in the
eye. My friend asked my son to look at her one day when she was
telling him some important information in order to be safe around
her pool. He told her, "I listen better if I don't have to look at
you." Luckily, she respected his request and talked to him without
requiring that he make eye contact.
I have worked with other children (in my job) who are uncomfortable
or unable to make eye contact with me. Most parents invariably ask
their child to look at me when I'm talking to him/her. I always
ask, "Please do not ask your child to look at me. I have other
clues that demonstrate to me that he has heard what I have said. If
I feel that he is not getting what I said, then I don't mind taking
the time to find out what works best for him." Here's a list of
some ways I have observed children listening at their best without
making eye contact: rolling on a big ball, sitting on a parent's
lap, drawing on a white board, rolling on the floor, spinning in a
chair. It _is_ more difficult for the person doing the talking to
get a good feel if someone has processed what they are saying
without getting the eye contact along with it. I feel that the eye
contact thing is often for the talker's convenience and not for the
listener, especially when it comes to children.
I was studying your words, "Look at My eyes, please." There is a
subtle difference compared to "Look at me, please." For some
children, I can see that the word change could make all the
difference to them. I worked with a boy that could not respond
at 'look at me', but could respond to 'look at my feet' (I was
demonstrating something with my feet at the time).
The important thing here is to look for what puts the child in the
best position for listening, for HIM.
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
Luckily, she respected his request and talked to him without
requiring that he make eye contact.
******
best position for listening, for HIM.
*******
Of course. I thought I was being clear that I was talking about what *I* do with *my* children. Asking them to look at me seemed to be the best way at those young ages to get them to focus on what I'm saying. I do hear what you're saying and agree that one needs to be very aware of HOW the other person is aware. My children have found it very comforting to have something/someway to focus when feeling scattered/overwhelmed with emotion.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
requiring that he make eye contact.
******
>>And I would do exactly the same.>>The important thing here is to look for what puts the child in the
best position for listening, for HIM.
*******
Of course. I thought I was being clear that I was talking about what *I* do with *my* children. Asking them to look at me seemed to be the best way at those young ages to get them to focus on what I'm saying. I do hear what you're saying and agree that one needs to be very aware of HOW the other person is aware. My children have found it very comforting to have something/someway to focus when feeling scattered/overwhelmed with emotion.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rebecca de
Lesa<
Hello, I'm am new to this group and unschooling however I enjoyed your post and response to it. It is amazing how learning to look at it through you children's eyes begins to change so much!!! Just the other day I was getting my 4 year old in the car to go away. As he was getting in , both my mom and I had said that we wanted him to come with me so he could help me (I was taking some furniture over to a friends)..Anyway in the conversation it was mentioned that our friend had a boy that would help us... Ian all of a sudden got very upset and was making it difficult for me to put him in his seat belt. Now I couldn't quite figure out what was the matter but thank goodness for grandmother's preserverance because she finally got him to say that he didn't want the other boy helping his mama. OK there's the problem. from there she refocused his attention on helping me get the jeep backed out of the driveway and re-assured him that he was my helper.... COOL
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello, I'm am new to this group and unschooling however I enjoyed your post and response to it. It is amazing how learning to look at it through you children's eyes begins to change so much!!! Just the other day I was getting my 4 year old in the car to go away. As he was getting in , both my mom and I had said that we wanted him to come with me so he could help me (I was taking some furniture over to a friends)..Anyway in the conversation it was mentioned that our friend had a boy that would help us... Ian all of a sudden got very upset and was making it difficult for me to put him in his seat belt. Now I couldn't quite figure out what was the matter but thank goodness for grandmother's preserverance because she finally got him to say that he didn't want the other boy helping his mama. OK there's the problem. from there she refocused his attention on helping me get the jeep backed out of the driveway and re-assured him that he was my helper.... COOL
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Misty
--- In [email protected], "dana_burdick"
<DanaBurdick@...> wrote:
your attention" when I felt she wasn't hearing me, it doesn't seem to
be an issue for her, I'm just curious what the other clues are you
were referring to.
Misty
<DanaBurdick@...> wrote:
>I have always told my daughter "I need your eyes" sometimes "I need
> "Please do not ask your child to look at me. I have other
> clues that demonstrate to me that he has heard what I have said.
your attention" when I felt she wasn't hearing me, it doesn't seem to
be an issue for her, I'm just curious what the other clues are you
were referring to.
Misty
dana_burdick
--- In [email protected], "Misty" <misty@...> wrote:
hear what I just said?" or, "Repeat what I just told you,"
or "Please look at me." So, when I say that I have other clues, I
simply mean that I don't have to ask directly, but can wait and
watch the child's reaction. No mystery, but just a different
expectation on the parent's part.
When you say, " when I felt she wasn't hearing me," I assume you are
doing a similar thing and are observing your child's reaction (i.e.
clues) to assess if she heard you or not.
With my clients I first just assume they have heard me when I give
them instructions. I admit that it is tempting to ask if they
understood me, but I find that it is more gentle and respectful if I
am patient and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they didn't
understand or hear me, then I know it pretty quickly when they begin
an exercise and they are not following my instructions
(the `clue'). In this case, I don't make a big deal out of it. I
will do one or several things to help them understand. Sometimes, I
will just repeat what I said. Other times, I sense that a child
does better by watching me, so I will demonstrate with as few words
as possible. Other times, I find it's best to let them be and make
their own discoveries of what works best for them.
With my clients I have the luxury of waiting for the child to
naturally demonstrate his understanding. I would not use the same
approach, say, when warning a child about a hot stove or when
telling her about the potential danger of running with a toothpick
in her mouth.
-Dana
>said.
> --- In [email protected], "dana_burdick"
> <DanaBurdick@> wrote:
> >
> > "Please do not ask your child to look at me. I have other
> > clues that demonstrate to me that he has heard what I have
>need
> I have always told my daughter "I need your eyes" sometimes "I
> your attention" when I felt she wasn't hearing me, it doesn't seemto
> be an issue for her, I'm just curious what the other clues are youWhen talking to the parents, I think they expect me to ask, "Did you
> were referring to.
>
> Misty
>
hear what I just said?" or, "Repeat what I just told you,"
or "Please look at me." So, when I say that I have other clues, I
simply mean that I don't have to ask directly, but can wait and
watch the child's reaction. No mystery, but just a different
expectation on the parent's part.
When you say, " when I felt she wasn't hearing me," I assume you are
doing a similar thing and are observing your child's reaction (i.e.
clues) to assess if she heard you or not.
With my clients I first just assume they have heard me when I give
them instructions. I admit that it is tempting to ask if they
understood me, but I find that it is more gentle and respectful if I
am patient and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they didn't
understand or hear me, then I know it pretty quickly when they begin
an exercise and they are not following my instructions
(the `clue'). In this case, I don't make a big deal out of it. I
will do one or several things to help them understand. Sometimes, I
will just repeat what I said. Other times, I sense that a child
does better by watching me, so I will demonstrate with as few words
as possible. Other times, I find it's best to let them be and make
their own discoveries of what works best for them.
With my clients I have the luxury of waiting for the child to
naturally demonstrate his understanding. I would not use the same
approach, say, when warning a child about a hot stove or when
telling her about the potential danger of running with a toothpick
in her mouth.
-Dana