New member...math for learning different 13y.o. girl
Ren Allen
"I would tell her that "behind" and "ahead" are concepts that
have little meaning outside of school."
Exactly!
I am confused as to how she got the idea that high school is something
to finish? My kids don't even know what grades they'd be in. I
understand some people are driven to accomplish certain things, but
why all the focus on "math" and completing something at a certain age?
Life is a journey. It doesn't matter one whit if a person learns these
things ever (if it isn't something they need for their life at the
moment)...much less at 13 or 15 or 25.
Why is she focused on math so much and not on doing what she loves to
do? People don't naturally focus on some percieved weakness usually,
when they're joyfully pursuing their lifes passions. What does she
love doing and how can you fuel those interests? Helping her be
comfortable with the fact that there is NO need to finish anything at
a certain age, nor is there some body of math knowledge she needs in
order to pursue learning beyond high school (does she think she needs
it for college or something?) would be of more help imo.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
have little meaning outside of school."
Exactly!
I am confused as to how she got the idea that high school is something
to finish? My kids don't even know what grades they'd be in. I
understand some people are driven to accomplish certain things, but
why all the focus on "math" and completing something at a certain age?
Life is a journey. It doesn't matter one whit if a person learns these
things ever (if it isn't something they need for their life at the
moment)...much less at 13 or 15 or 25.
Why is she focused on math so much and not on doing what she loves to
do? People don't naturally focus on some percieved weakness usually,
when they're joyfully pursuing their lifes passions. What does she
love doing and how can you fuel those interests? Helping her be
comfortable with the fact that there is NO need to finish anything at
a certain age, nor is there some body of math knowledge she needs in
order to pursue learning beyond high school (does she think she needs
it for college or something?) would be of more help imo.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 8/18/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Helping her be
> comfortable with the fact that there is NO need to finish anything at
> a certain age, nor is there some body of math knowledge she needs in
> order to pursue learning beyond high school (does she think she needs
> it for college or something?) would be of more help imo.
>
Which there is NO need to go to college. If math is an area in which
she has problems, most likely she is not going to pursue a field of
interest where math is a priority. And if she does, then she will
learn to use math in the context of what she is doing. As for
college, many colleges have math classes now called "Math for
Non-Majors" or "Math for Humanities Majors" or even "Math for the
Masses." These classes review traditional mathematic principles and
introduce the concept of algebra and how it is used in a "real world"
sense. Not just a set of arithmetic problems. Rarely are any math
classes needed after that point. I have a friend who teaches "Math
for Humanities Majors" at a local community college. I've actually
thought of taking her class just because she makes it sound so fun!
She told me that they do a "math project" in her class that can be
anything you want as long as it involves changing numbers in some
form. I asked her if knitting a pair of socks in a different size
than called for in the pattern counted and she said, "Oh, that would
be an advanced project!" :-)
BTW, I have always considered myself "weak" in math, but I can
increase recipes and change knitting patterns with great ease even
though it can sometimes require great mathematical concepts.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Shannon Schermerhorn
Dear Deb, Ren and Michelle
Thank you for your advice. For the first time last week she wanted to KNOW what grade she would be in if we did do grades. How many times have we snuggled and read Teenage Liberation Handbook! We love it, even Hannah loves it! But now, for whatever reason she wants to learn more about math. I know some folks might say, "thats not unschooling, why is she even thinking about graduating, you can't use text books, etc..."
I say I want to assist my daughter in whatever she feels she would like to pursue, at least look into more, and that includes math. If she wants a MATH BOOK, what's the biggie? Is there a problem with a kid WHO WANTS a math book? If all we've done our whole life is lived (cooked, kept track of bank accounts, gardened, repaired our home, you know, real living!!) then I think that is all a kid needs. If a later time Hannah feels she needs to learn or brush up on a concept for whatever reason, she can do it then. BUT SHE WANTS TO DO IT NOW and why should I stand in her way? I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
Thank you for your advice. For the first time last week she wanted to KNOW what grade she would be in if we did do grades. How many times have we snuggled and read Teenage Liberation Handbook! We love it, even Hannah loves it! But now, for whatever reason she wants to learn more about math. I know some folks might say, "thats not unschooling, why is she even thinking about graduating, you can't use text books, etc..."
I say I want to assist my daughter in whatever she feels she would like to pursue, at least look into more, and that includes math. If she wants a MATH BOOK, what's the biggie? Is there a problem with a kid WHO WANTS a math book? If all we've done our whole life is lived (cooked, kept track of bank accounts, gardened, repaired our home, you know, real living!!) then I think that is all a kid needs. If a later time Hannah feels she needs to learn or brush up on a concept for whatever reason, she can do it then. BUT SHE WANTS TO DO IT NOW and why should I stand in her way? I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2006 2:59:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
blest.momma@... writes:
I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter
with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
**********
Shannon, my kids are younger so I don't have any specific ideas for the
higher math, but have you tried looking through some homeschooling resource
websites for some programs other than saxon (I think that is what you said).
_www.fun-books.com_ (http://www.fun-books.com) is a catalog/on-line store
that is run by a family of unschoolers. I have emailed them for advise about
some of their products and they have always been helpful. They carry a
series called "key to.....(algebra, geometry, etc.)" that might be helpful for
your daughter.
I have also waded through the A to Z Home's Cool resource page and found
some good things here and there.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
blest.momma@... writes:
I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter
with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
**********
Shannon, my kids are younger so I don't have any specific ideas for the
higher math, but have you tried looking through some homeschooling resource
websites for some programs other than saxon (I think that is what you said).
_www.fun-books.com_ (http://www.fun-books.com) is a catalog/on-line store
that is run by a family of unschoolers. I have emailed them for advise about
some of their products and they have always been helpful. They carry a
series called "key to.....(algebra, geometry, etc.)" that might be helpful for
your daughter.
I have also waded through the A to Z Home's Cool resource page and found
some good things here and there.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], Shannon Schermerhorn
<blest.momma@...> wrote:
SECTIONS of books there. My personal favorites are the Schaum's
outline series for math stuff - a few pages (maybe 2 maybe 10
depending) introduce a topic, a couple pages show step by step
worked out examples, a couple pages have exercises (with answers
given in the back of the book) then it moves on to the next
topic/chapter. You can do it however you choose - try a few
exercises, if you've got it, move on; if not, go back over it and
try a few more...
What exactly are you wanting us to tell you? If she wants to learn
it, find ways for that whether it's a couple workbooks or a tutor
from a local university or a community college course or whatever it
takes. The thing is there is NO difference between her wanting to
learn 'higher math' now and her wanting to learn to bake cookies
when she was 8 (or whatever). Do exactly the same thing - facilitate
her interest, her way, her timing, however long she's interested in
it.
--Deb
<blest.momma@...> wrote:
>Great - take her to the bookstore or library - there are WHOLE
>I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my
>daughter with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
>
SECTIONS of books there. My personal favorites are the Schaum's
outline series for math stuff - a few pages (maybe 2 maybe 10
depending) introduce a topic, a couple pages show step by step
worked out examples, a couple pages have exercises (with answers
given in the back of the book) then it moves on to the next
topic/chapter. You can do it however you choose - try a few
exercises, if you've got it, move on; if not, go back over it and
try a few more...
What exactly are you wanting us to tell you? If she wants to learn
it, find ways for that whether it's a couple workbooks or a tutor
from a local university or a community college course or whatever it
takes. The thing is there is NO difference between her wanting to
learn 'higher math' now and her wanting to learn to bake cookies
when she was 8 (or whatever). Do exactly the same thing - facilitate
her interest, her way, her timing, however long she's interested in
it.
--Deb
Christy Mahoney
In your original post, you said that she was worried about graduating
from high school, not that she was interested in math. That's why you
got the responses you did. You said that she wanted to learn it
because she was upset about being "behind", and keeping up with the
average school schedule is not what unschooling is about.
People here were just wondering why your daughter was worried about
graduating because kids may not know that it's not necessary,
especially if someone else tells them it is. So is your daughter
interested in math or is she concerned that she won't be a successful
adult if she doesn't "catch up" to school kids or is she worried that
she won't be able to have a specific career or did someone tell her
she was stupid? Or it could be something completely different.
-Christy
from high school, not that she was interested in math. That's why you
got the responses you did. You said that she wanted to learn it
because she was upset about being "behind", and keeping up with the
average school schedule is not what unschooling is about.
People here were just wondering why your daughter was worried about
graduating because kids may not know that it's not necessary,
especially if someone else tells them it is. So is your daughter
interested in math or is she concerned that she won't be a successful
adult if she doesn't "catch up" to school kids or is she worried that
she won't be able to have a specific career or did someone tell her
she was stupid? Or it could be something completely different.
-Christy
Momma
---Since this is a list about unschooling and you said you don�t want advice
about unschooling I�m not sure why you are asking here. Maybe there is a
list for higher math that can help.
Dawn
I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter
with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
.
HYPERLINK
"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=12789513&grpspId=1600081972&msgI
d=16571&stime=1155927339&nc1=3848647&nc2=3848643&nc3=3848483"
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about unschooling I�m not sure why you are asking here. Maybe there is a
list for higher math that can help.
Dawn
I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter
with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!
Shannon
.
HYPERLINK
"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=12789513&grpspId=1600081972&msgI
d=16571&stime=1155927339&nc1=3848647&nc2=3848643&nc3=3848483"
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.2/422 - Release Date: 8/17/2006
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.2/422 - Release Date: 8/17/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 8/18/06, Shannon Schermerhorn <blest.momma@...> wrote:
do math but the reason she felt she needed to know math. If she has
been unschooled and living a truly free life and embraces the
philosophy if the Teenage Liberation Handbook, I would question not
how she should learn math but why she wants to learn it and help her
through that. I truly got from your original posts on the matter that
she is feeling like there is something lacking in her. Perhaps the
important thing would be to find her some books and then help her see
how she doesn't need those things to "finish" anything. She isn't
unfinished as she is. Or maybe I should say there is no "finishing"
that anyone needs to do. We always evolve, grow, and change as our
situations do.
(warning: movie analogy coming up) In the movie Freaky Friday, the
mom and daughter switch bodies for the day. The mom (in the
daughter's body) goes to school to take some big placement test. The
mom is thinking to herself as she looks at some math questions, "Pi?
What is pi? It's 3.something. She's never going to need to know what
pi is. *I* have never needed to know pi. This is really stupid!"
(paraphrased). Sometimes I wish that parents could switch bodies with
their kids for a few days and really look at all that "the system"
says that they need and see if they truly are applying those things in
their lives.
I really would look more into your daughter's why's rather than her
how's. The how's will find a way if it is something that she truly is
passionate about. If it isn't something that she sees a need for then
she is never going to understand it fully. It is going to become a
painful part of her life, fill her with self doubt (maybe more so than
she is now), and she still isn't going to "get math."
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
> BUT SHE WANTS TO DO IT NOW and why should I stand in her way? I don't need advice on unschooling, I need advice on how to help my daughter with higher math BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO KNOW!Shannon, I think most of us focused not on the fact that she wanted to
>
do math but the reason she felt she needed to know math. If she has
been unschooled and living a truly free life and embraces the
philosophy if the Teenage Liberation Handbook, I would question not
how she should learn math but why she wants to learn it and help her
through that. I truly got from your original posts on the matter that
she is feeling like there is something lacking in her. Perhaps the
important thing would be to find her some books and then help her see
how she doesn't need those things to "finish" anything. She isn't
unfinished as she is. Or maybe I should say there is no "finishing"
that anyone needs to do. We always evolve, grow, and change as our
situations do.
(warning: movie analogy coming up) In the movie Freaky Friday, the
mom and daughter switch bodies for the day. The mom (in the
daughter's body) goes to school to take some big placement test. The
mom is thinking to herself as she looks at some math questions, "Pi?
What is pi? It's 3.something. She's never going to need to know what
pi is. *I* have never needed to know pi. This is really stupid!"
(paraphrased). Sometimes I wish that parents could switch bodies with
their kids for a few days and really look at all that "the system"
says that they need and see if they truly are applying those things in
their lives.
I really would look more into your daughter's why's rather than her
how's. The how's will find a way if it is something that she truly is
passionate about. If it isn't something that she sees a need for then
she is never going to understand it fully. It is going to become a
painful part of her life, fill her with self doubt (maybe more so than
she is now), and she still isn't going to "get math."
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Deb Lewis
Pam Sorooshian wrote about the problems of a person trying to learn the
notation of math when he or she has no practical application for it and
no experience with it. I'm looking for that post or article (I've
forgotten where it appeared) and haven't found it yet but maybe she
saved it and will come along and wow us with it again. <g>
It might help you avoid some things that could potentially frustrate your
daughter.
***why should I stand in her way? ***
No one was suggesting you stand in her way. Finding out why she wants to
do math from a book might help you help her in the best way.
Sometimes we think we need to do one thing in order to get to something
else we really want. Say a kid is thinking about being a vet. A friend
says "how will you get into college/vet school without a high school
diploma?" The kid goes about the business of pursuing a high school
diploma even though she doesn't really want that. What she really wants
is to know the possibility of getting into college/vet school exists for
her.
You said "But now, for whatever reason..." she wants this. We're not
saying "stand in her way," we're saying "find out why."
Deb Lewis
notation of math when he or she has no practical application for it and
no experience with it. I'm looking for that post or article (I've
forgotten where it appeared) and haven't found it yet but maybe she
saved it and will come along and wow us with it again. <g>
It might help you avoid some things that could potentially frustrate your
daughter.
***why should I stand in her way? ***
No one was suggesting you stand in her way. Finding out why she wants to
do math from a book might help you help her in the best way.
Sometimes we think we need to do one thing in order to get to something
else we really want. Say a kid is thinking about being a vet. A friend
says "how will you get into college/vet school without a high school
diploma?" The kid goes about the business of pursuing a high school
diploma even though she doesn't really want that. What she really wants
is to know the possibility of getting into college/vet school exists for
her.
You said "But now, for whatever reason..." she wants this. We're not
saying "stand in her way," we're saying "find out why."
Deb Lewis