Ren Allen

"So my problem is how do you just suddenly let go and TRUST that
you're doing the right thing and the kids will learn what they need?"

By reading about natural learning, by talking with other unschoolers,
by meeting up with other unschoolers and by studying human development
and history, which shows exactly how humans learned just fine without
schooling.:)
Look deeply at your children and see them for who-they-are at this
very moment. See them as perfect and whole and unfolding in their own
time. You can poke and prod at the blossom, but you won't make it
unfold any faster or better, you'll only do damage. You've seen that
damage, now you have an opportunity to simply create a wonderful
environment for them to blossom in their own way and time. So create
that wonderful environment (I'm sure many of those parts are already
in place) and get out of their way!!:)


"What should I be doing with myself?"

Getting a life!!;)
Seriously, if your children are your entire focus, that's not a great
example to them of living the life of your dreams. They are the dream,
but what did you dream about before children? After they're raised?
Who are you really and what are YOUR passions? What part of you
decided you aren't worthy of following your own dreams? (I'm only
guessing here, could be totally off the mark).

What things make you happy? What activities make you feel fulfilled
and joyous? DO those things and as you happily pursue those things,
you may find yourself suddenly surrounded by interested children. It's
a much nicer way to share learning with them. Let them come and go as
they choose.

"Should I be right there with
them all day long while they're playing?"

Yes and NO.
They don't need you there constantly monitering them. Let their
imaginations and ideas flow in their own way. Be available, join in
when they need you, but give them time and space. Take them platters
of food, check in to see that they're doing ok, make the environment
conducive to play by cleaning up after them if that helps.

Should I encourage them to
watch a show with me or offer to read to them or play math games?"

Only if it sounds like fun, just because it's fun...not to teach them
anything. Here's a REALLY great quote I came across as I was pulling
bits for one of my talks in Albuquerque next month:
"There is this cultural myth that 'homeschoolers make cookies to teach
math'. I don't know what other people do, but here in my house, as
unschoolers, we make cookies to make cookies, and if necessary we use
math to help us make more cookies. Doing activities in order to learn
specific schoolish stuff is backwards prioritizing. We learn or
practice skills in order to facilitate the fun activities!"

I believe that was from Robyn Coburn.
Your focus still needs to shift a bit. Away from how to get certain
knowledge into them and towards living a rich, full life. Interesting
lives naturally encompass a lot of learning and stimulate plenty of
reasons to write/compute/draw/research.

The focus is on a life lived well. What kind of things make for a good
life? What do you need to change in order to feel that all of your
lives are about living to the fullest? Does your family find some
fascination with Brazil or mountains or snakes or color? Bring those
elements into your life with abandon!! Each person will have their own
ideas about what good living encompasses, but there will also be
things that you seek as a family. It's a give and take, ebb and flow
and it works best with adults that are creative, interesting and
mainly CURIOUS!!

If you aren't those things...it's ok. You can reclaim those character
traits.:) Just recognize that the focus is entirely different for
unschoolers. We aren't playing games to help the kids learn math,
we're playing games because it's fun. We learn constantly, because
that's what humans are born to do.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Stacy

> By reading about natural learning, by talking with other
unschoolers,
> by meeting up with other unschoolers and by studying human
development
> and history, which shows exactly how humans learned just fine
without
> schooling.:)

Hi Ren. :-) I've got Alfie Kohn's "Punished by Rewards" and John
Holt's "How Children Fail". I know I can't go wrong with these 2
authors. What are some other books you'd suggest? We were also lucky
to fall in with a support group that has a few seasoned unschoolers
so I've been picking their brains as well.

> Look deeply at your children and see them for who-they-are at this
> very moment. See them as perfect and whole and unfolding in their
own
> time. You can poke and prod at the blossom, but you won't make it
> unfold any faster or better, you'll only do damage. You've seen
that
> damage, now you have an opportunity to simply create a wonderful
> environment for them to blossom in their own way and time. So
create
> that wonderful environment (I'm sure many of those parts are
already
> in place) and get out of their way!!:)

What a beautiful thing to write and so very important for me to
remember. I'd like to print it out so I can read it to myself as a
reminder. Would you mind?

> They are the dream,
> but what did you dream about before children? After they're raised?
> Who are you really and what are YOUR passions? What part of you
> decided you aren't worthy of following your own dreams? (I'm only
> guessing here, could be totally off the mark).

You are so right. I used to work as a dog trainer, but I had put
that on hold when I decided to homeschool. I also have a large
collection of books sitting on my shelf that I haven't had the time
to read yet and tons of sewing projects just waiting to be started.
It's not that I couldn't do my sewing or reading, but I always felt
guilty, like I should be doing more important things with the kids.

> make the environment
> conducive to play by cleaning up after them if that helps.

Did I mention I really dislike cleaning and especially cleaning up
my kids' rooms? Honestly, I'm afraid that if I always clean up after
them, then they won't learn to clean up after themselves. For
instance, I lived with my father-in-law while my husband was
stationed in Korea. He very rarely cleaned up after himself. Every
morning he left toast crumbs and spilled coffee on the counter. He
vacuumed his room one time during the 18 months I lived there. His
mother always took care of him, then his wife & once she left, I
moved in to help him out. Now he's living with his mom again, so he
still doesn't have to clean. My husband is a little better than his
dad, but his cleaning is limited to only his things. My mother-in-
law thought it was easier to pick up after him than to get him to do
it himself. I don't want my children, especially my son, to think
cleaning is somebody else's job. I think I'm going to have a hard
time dealing with the chore issue.

> Here's a REALLY great quote I came across as I was pulling
> bits for one of my talks in Albuquerque next month:
> "There is this cultural myth that 'homeschoolers make cookies to
teach
> math'. I don't know what other people do, but here in my house, as
> unschoolers, we make cookies to make cookies, and if necessary we
use
> math to help us make more cookies. Doing activities in order to
learn
> specific schoolish stuff is backwards prioritizing. We learn or
> practice skills in order to facilitate the fun activities!"
>
> I believe that was from Robyn Coburn.

That is a great quote! I'll have to add it to my printout and show
it to my hubby. Heck, I think I'll have to print out this whole post
for him to read. :-)


> Your focus still needs to shift a bit. ...
> The focus is on a life lived well.

> What do you need to change in order to feel that all of your
> lives are about living to the fullest? Just recognize that the
> focus is entirely different for
> unschoolers. We learn constantly, because
> that's what humans are born to do.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com

Thank you so much Ren for your inspiring words. I am defintely going
to work on shifting my focus and enjoying time together as a family!
Now I gotta run because I have a naked toddler running around my
house!

Stacy Murphy

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: smurphygt@...

What are some other books you'd suggest?

-=-=-

Parenting a Free Child, An Unschooled Life by Rue Kream

-=-=-=

You are so right. I used to work as a dog trainer, but I had put
that on hold when I decided to homeschool. I also have a large
collection of books sitting on my shelf that I haven't had the time
to read yet and tons of sewing projects just waiting to be started.
It's not that I couldn't do my sewing or reading, but I always felt
guilty, like I should be doing more important things with the kids.

-=-=-=-

Consider raising a guide dog puppy.

It's hard to let go, but it's something you can do as a family, and it
won't interfere, but rather ADD, to your homeschooling experience. We
raised Ryan, a vizsla through SouthEastern Guide Dogs, last year---it
was GREAT!

-=-=-=-

Did I mention I really dislike cleaning and especially cleaning up
my kids' rooms? Honestly, I'm afraid that if I always clean up after
them, then they won't learn to clean up after themselves. For
instance, I lived with my father-in-law while my husband was
stationed in Korea. He very rarely cleaned up after himself. Every
morning he left toast crumbs and spilled coffee on the counter. He
vacuumed his room one time during the 18 months I lived there. His
mother always took care of him, then his wife & once she left, I
moved in to help him out. Now he's living with his mom again, so he
still doesn't have to clean. My husband is a little better than his
dad, but his cleaning is limited to only his things. My mother-in-
law thought it was easier to pick up after him than to get him to do
it himself. I don't want my children, especially my son, to think
cleaning is somebody else's job. I think I'm going to have a hard
time dealing with the chore issue.

-=-=-

Neither your husband nor his father was unschooled. Nor were they
mindfully parented. DROP you what you *think* will happen. Change your
attitude about chores. THAT will influence how your children view
housework. There are a slew of us out here that don't force chores and
yet have children who joyfully help out and clean and keep the house
neat.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6




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Ren Allen

"What a beautiful thing to write and so very important for me to
remember. I'd like to print it out so I can read it to myself as a
reminder. Would you mind?"

Anything I write online is public information that you can do with as
you choose (other than use it and put someone elses name on it:).
Thank you for the kind words.

As to the cleaning up issue...
Children that grow up with the attitude of dependency on another
person to clean up for them, are usually those that aren't allowed to
help in their own way. What I've discovered (as I released my chores
issues over the years) is that children WANT to help, they WANT to be
a part of day to day activities. They just don't always want to do it
the way an adult wants them to do it!!

They have their own way of doing things and helping, we need to honor
that. Let them help even if it means that the job isn't done very
well. Clean up after them because you're providing a new canvas for
creative explorations. What if you had a small Einstein or Picasso in
your care? Would it be important to help them clean up so they could
get on with the really important work of becoming the creative
geniuses they were born to be? Of course it would!

Children don't learn dependency by having someone help them clean
up(or cleaning up for them), they learn that you are willing to place
your relationship with them above stuff. As they dabble in and out of
helping you, they WILL grow into reponsibility, just as they learn
everything else.

If they can learn to read in their own time and way, then they can
learn to clean in their own time and way too. And the best part? They
will be helping you because it's in their hearts, because they CARE,
not because some authority figure told them to.

I ask my kids for help too...nothing wrong with being honest about
your needs (depending on age and ability of child of course).

When I'm tired and cleaning up another mess, sometimes I chant to
myself "I'm helping my creative geniuses, I'm helping my creative
geniuses" or something similar. And sometimes I feel like the
scribbles on the walls and the broken/lost items or chocolate blobs on
the floor with NEVER end!! Then I look at my teens and realize that
the only "mess" I really encounter with them is some dishes (yep, they
even choose to keep their rooms clean, all on their own) and that it
doesn't last forever. I remind myself to enjoy these messes, because
*I* chose to have them.

I chose to have children and children are most inconvenient, messy and
busy individuals. I chose that. Their messes are a sign that they are
healthy, happy, learning and ALIVE!! I try to be thankful for those
messes (it doesn't always translate into gratitude, but a shift in
thinking helps a LOT).

Sierra does not like cleaning up her room. I usually clean it for her
(which is an amazing task because she and Jalen can trash it fairly
quick) by myself. She dabbles in and out of helping sometimes, but if
it's really bad, she just can't cope with it.

The result? A child that LOVES to do dishes, loves cooking with me,
setting the table, even folding laundry when she sees me doing it.
She's only 9 years old, she does more than I ever did at that age. But
I don't make an issue out of what she doen't do, so she's more willing
to help in other areas. She really appreciates the gift of a clean
room. Cleaning up for my kids has fostered better relationships all
the way around.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Betsy Hill

**When I'm tired and cleaning up another mess, sometimes I chant to
myself "I'm helping my creative geniuses, I'm helping my creative
geniuses" or something similar. **

This actually makes a lot of sense to me.

I have spent time visiting an out of state friend who is very
compulsive about cleaning. This is tolerable for a short afternoon
visit, but when we stay over at her place it is quite stressful. For
me to constantly remember not to take off my shoes, not to set a book
down or a glass down when I am done with it takes a small, but
significant, mental effort that I have to exert the entire time that I
am there.

I figure a kid who had to try to remember to keep tidiness rules in
mind at all times has less room in his mind for relaxed,
whole-hearted, flowing play. I assume that being tense and vigilant
will interfere with creativity.

Betsy