premature interests
Millie Rosa
That's a stupid subject line...I am tired and I have had a less than
joyful day (cleaned up a whole box of cat crunchies and about $100 in
pennies off the floor, sat on couch to catch my breath and found
breadcrusts and ants in the cushions, etc). But I am confused about
William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things
when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
to learn things before he is ready...
An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found a
map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this. Today he
asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be president
and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old? And
then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am just
frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I pull
over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while we are
driving). And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for his
money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give him
700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calm him
down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? I
would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this kind
of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
Thanks for listening
Millie
joyful day (cleaned up a whole box of cat crunchies and about $100 in
pennies off the floor, sat on couch to catch my breath and found
breadcrusts and ants in the cushions, etc). But I am confused about
William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things
when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
to learn things before he is ready...
An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found a
map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this. Today he
asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be president
and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old? And
then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am just
frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I pull
over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while we are
driving). And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for his
money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give him
700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calm him
down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? I
would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this kind
of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
Thanks for listening
Millie
Millie Rosa
Hey, I just wanted to come back because I was feeling bad about this
post...please don't think I am complaining about William. I am not.
I think he is amazing and wonderful! I am frustrated w myself and
feeling stupid...seems like my two year old is smarter than I am and
I have a hard time figuring out how to explain things to him and am
frequently baffled by his questions and he gets really pissed if I
tell him I don't know something....
Just was watching my sweetie sleep and feeling guilty for this post.
I am not complaining about my baby and I wouldn't change him if I
could. It's just hard to deal w the dichotomy of him being
so....don't know what word to use...I'll say intelligent...but then
being only 2 years old and limited in his ability to understand.
--- In [email protected], "Millie Rosa"
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
post...please don't think I am complaining about William. I am not.
I think he is amazing and wonderful! I am frustrated w myself and
feeling stupid...seems like my two year old is smarter than I am and
I have a hard time figuring out how to explain things to him and am
frequently baffled by his questions and he gets really pissed if I
tell him I don't know something....
Just was watching my sweetie sleep and feeling guilty for this post.
I am not complaining about my baby and I wouldn't change him if I
could. It's just hard to deal w the dichotomy of him being
so....don't know what word to use...I'll say intelligent...but then
being only 2 years old and limited in his ability to understand.
--- In [email protected], "Millie Rosa"
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
> That's a stupid subject line...I am tired and I have had a lessthan
> joyful day (cleaned up a whole box of cat crunchies and about $100in
> pennies off the floor, sat on couch to catch my breath and foundabout
> breadcrusts and ants in the cushions, etc). But I am confused
> William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approachthings
> when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demandinghas
> to learn things before he is ready...
> An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found a
> map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
> planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
> and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he
> since had out every book our library has on the solar system andthe
> universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet whenwe
> look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and alwayshe
> asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
> that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this. Today
> asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be presidentAnd
> and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
> president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old?
> then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and hewants
> me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (heunderstand
> sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly
> it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it forhim?
> I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for aslong
> as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not whatis
> going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants mepull
> to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
> I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am just
> frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
> who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
> understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I
> over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while weare
> driving). And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for hishim
> money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
> said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
> have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give
> 700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calmhim
> down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? Ikind
> would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this
> of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
> frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
> Thanks for listening
> Millie
[email protected]
I know that some folks that unschool say that every child is gifted, but
yours sounds to me to be extremely gifted! I know it must be hard, but don't
squash that thirst for knowledge that he has! Look for some message boards
with other parents dealing with children like yours, it might help.
syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn
out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able
to learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- _John Holt_ (http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=John+Holt)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yours sounds to me to be extremely gifted! I know it must be hard, but don't
squash that thirst for knowledge that he has! Look for some message boards
with other parents dealing with children like yours, it might help.
syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn
out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able
to learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- _John Holt_ (http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=John+Holt)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jul 9, 2004, at 12:12 AM, Millie Rosa wrote:
it now. He wouldn't ask you if he wasn't interested. KWIM? :) If he
started crawling at 4 months old would you tell him that he wasn't
ready and sit on him? LOL Obviously silly question, but I wanted a
silly analogy. Allow him the freedom to learn what he wants to know
when he wants to know it. Don't throw a bucket of water on his fire.
*S*
and closer until you're right at ground level ON Earth so he could see
that that creamy blue planet is the one he's standing on. There's lots
of movies that have a reverse zoom.....the first Men In Black movie has
that at the very end. You don't need to show him the entire movie.
Does Contact have a shot like that in it? I can't recall.
Anyway, that's not all that unusual for a child to be interested in our
solar system. I have two posters in our home that were picked out by
my DS when he was 2 or 3. He thought they looked so cool and bright.
He knows all the planet's names because he wanted to know their names.
My DD is now 3 and she knows them too. If they're asking for
info....just give it to them. :)
they asked) and came up with something along the lines of our president
is like our country's daddy. His job is to make sure that we're safe
and food and water and to help people live happy lives and have jobs.
As they've gotten a little older that explanation has been tweaked and
explained more in depth, but the general "idea" is the same.
is and maybe he isn't. Either way, just read to him and have a good
dictionary next to you that you can reach for. If he thought it was
drivel or over his head or b o r i n g then he wouldn't keep asking you
to read it.
My son isn't Einstein, but he is very interested in things that
children often aren't known for being interested in. However, maybe
other kids aren't interested in them too because they don't know about
them or their parents shoo them like chickens toward "things for
children". Your son sounds wonderful! Just embrace him and his
interests and help him learn what he wants to know. That's why you're
there, Mama! :D
Warmly,
-Tracy-
> I see you guys talking about how kids will approach thingsWhy would you think he's NOT ready? If he wants info now then he wants
> when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
> to learn things before he is ready...
it now. He wouldn't ask you if he wasn't interested. KWIM? :) If he
started crawling at 4 months old would you tell him that he wasn't
ready and sit on him? LOL Obviously silly question, but I wanted a
silly analogy. Allow him the freedom to learn what he wants to know
when he wants to know it. Don't throw a bucket of water on his fire.
*S*
> An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found aFind a clip in a movie where you start out in space and zoom in closer
> map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
> planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
> and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
> since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
> universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
> look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
> asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
> that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this.
and closer until you're right at ground level ON Earth so he could see
that that creamy blue planet is the one he's standing on. There's lots
of movies that have a reverse zoom.....the first Men In Black movie has
that at the very end. You don't need to show him the entire movie.
Does Contact have a shot like that in it? I can't recall.
Anyway, that's not all that unusual for a child to be interested in our
solar system. I have two posters in our home that were picked out by
my DS when he was 2 or 3. He thought they looked so cool and bright.
He knows all the planet's names because he wanted to know their names.
My DD is now 3 and she knows them too. If they're asking for
info....just give it to them. :)
> And then "What is aI tried explaining that one to my kids when they were very young (when
> president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old?
they asked) and came up with something along the lines of our president
is like our country's daddy. His job is to make sure that we're safe
and food and water and to help people live happy lives and have jobs.
As they've gotten a little older that explanation has been tweaked and
explained more in depth, but the general "idea" is the same.
> And then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and heHow do YOU know that he's NOT understanding it? Seriously! Maybe he
> wants
> me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
> sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
> it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
> I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
> as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
> going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
> to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
is and maybe he isn't. Either way, just read to him and have a good
dictionary next to you that you can reach for. If he thought it was
drivel or over his head or b o r i n g then he wouldn't keep asking you
to read it.
My son isn't Einstein, but he is very interested in things that
children often aren't known for being interested in. However, maybe
other kids aren't interested in them too because they don't know about
them or their parents shoo them like chickens toward "things for
children". Your son sounds wonderful! Just embrace him and his
interests and help him learn what he wants to know. That's why you're
there, Mama! :D
Warmly,
-Tracy-
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/9/2004 7:58:23 AM Central Standard Time,
treegoddess@... writes:
they asked) and came up with something along the lines of our president
is like our country's daddy. His job is to make sure that we're safe
and food and water and to help people live happy lives and have jobs.
As they've gotten a little older that explanation has been tweaked and
explained more in depth, but the general "idea" is the same.
~~~
He wants to know who John Kerry is. I wouldn't use the "daddy" analogy,
because president's change, and it could lead to thinking that daddy could
change, too.
Still, it's a good idea to relate things to his actual life...perhaps you
could help him notice that the mail carrier changes from day-to-day (ours does),
that the mail carrier is the "caretaker" of the mail, in the same way the
president is the "caretaker" of the country. Or the sanitation workers or the
grocery store bagger or another person your son sees regularly.
As for whether you know something or not...how about saying, "Let's find
out!" instead of "I don't know." Read him the Shakespeare. When he asks for
meaning of a word you don't know, show him the dictionary and offer to look it
up. It may be that he will choose to look at the dictionary and go off on a
tangent that way, or he will rather hear the story. Does it really matter if
understands the story or not? He's learning things and he obviously has a
thirst for knowledge.
As for where's Earth in the night sky...have you ever just pointed at the
ground instead? How can he understand he can see Venus and Mercury and not
Pluto? How about drawing a picture of the solar system and then drawing a
picture of you and him on Earth?
It sounds like it's going to take a lot of imagination with this kid. AND an
ability to discern his real questions. I will say that most 2-4 yo's will
ask questions over and over just to get a reaction, and if he sees you're
getting frustrated it may be paying off for him in some way...whether it's
knowing that he has your full attention as long as you're frustrated and
exasperated, or he likes the intellectual stimulation of the argument. I would
encourage you to think about your answers to his questions carefully. Many times
what kids are saying is not what they're really asking. Asking him to clarify
what he means could save you a lot of frustration.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
treegoddess@... writes:
> And then "What is aI tried explaining that one to my kids when they were very young (when
> president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old?
they asked) and came up with something along the lines of our president
is like our country's daddy. His job is to make sure that we're safe
and food and water and to help people live happy lives and have jobs.
As they've gotten a little older that explanation has been tweaked and
explained more in depth, but the general "idea" is the same.
~~~
He wants to know who John Kerry is. I wouldn't use the "daddy" analogy,
because president's change, and it could lead to thinking that daddy could
change, too.
Still, it's a good idea to relate things to his actual life...perhaps you
could help him notice that the mail carrier changes from day-to-day (ours does),
that the mail carrier is the "caretaker" of the mail, in the same way the
president is the "caretaker" of the country. Or the sanitation workers or the
grocery store bagger or another person your son sees regularly.
As for whether you know something or not...how about saying, "Let's find
out!" instead of "I don't know." Read him the Shakespeare. When he asks for
meaning of a word you don't know, show him the dictionary and offer to look it
up. It may be that he will choose to look at the dictionary and go off on a
tangent that way, or he will rather hear the story. Does it really matter if
understands the story or not? He's learning things and he obviously has a
thirst for knowledge.
As for where's Earth in the night sky...have you ever just pointed at the
ground instead? How can he understand he can see Venus and Mercury and not
Pluto? How about drawing a picture of the solar system and then drawing a
picture of you and him on Earth?
It sounds like it's going to take a lot of imagination with this kid. AND an
ability to discern his real questions. I will say that most 2-4 yo's will
ask questions over and over just to get a reaction, and if he sees you're
getting frustrated it may be paying off for him in some way...whether it's
knowing that he has your full attention as long as you're frustrated and
exasperated, or he likes the intellectual stimulation of the argument. I would
encourage you to think about your answers to his questions carefully. Many times
what kids are saying is not what they're really asking. Asking him to clarify
what he means could save you a lot of frustration.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Millie, I read this and your follow-up, and I thought: This is a kid who
REALLY needs never to go to school!
As challenging as this may be sometimes, unschooling will be very, very easy
if he stays like this. You won't have to worry if he's learning, and you won't
be worried that he doesn't have enough interests.
As far as answering his questions, just do the best you can and be prepared
to say, "Let's find out," a lot. You don't have to know everything. You just
have to be a resource for him so that he can get the info he needs.
Read Shakespeare to him, and don't try to explain it. If he has a question
you don't know, try to find out. Maybe he understands it and will be able to
explain it to you someday! Or maybe the sounds of the words make him feel good.
Will sounds like a really cool, fun kid. Think about coming to the the Live
and Learn Unschooling conference in August. Be prepared to spend lots of time
at the library. Bring him lots of places, not just "little kid" places. Decide
that your family is all about learning, and explore the things you want to,
too.
I think once you stop worrying about it, you guys are going to have a blast.
Just don't send him to school and mess it up. ;)
Kathryn
In a message dated 7/9/2004 5:08:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
That's a stupid subject line...I am tired and I have had a less than
joyful day (cleaned up a whole box of cat crunchies and about $100 in
pennies off the floor, sat on couch to catch my breath and found
breadcrusts and ants in the cushions, etc). But I am confused about
William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things
when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
to learn things before he is ready...
An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found a
map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this. Today he
asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be president
and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old? And
then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am just
frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I pull
over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while we are
driving). And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for his
money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give him
700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calm him
down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? I
would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this kind
of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
Thanks for listening
Millie
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
REALLY needs never to go to school!
As challenging as this may be sometimes, unschooling will be very, very easy
if he stays like this. You won't have to worry if he's learning, and you won't
be worried that he doesn't have enough interests.
As far as answering his questions, just do the best you can and be prepared
to say, "Let's find out," a lot. You don't have to know everything. You just
have to be a resource for him so that he can get the info he needs.
Read Shakespeare to him, and don't try to explain it. If he has a question
you don't know, try to find out. Maybe he understands it and will be able to
explain it to you someday! Or maybe the sounds of the words make him feel good.
Will sounds like a really cool, fun kid. Think about coming to the the Live
and Learn Unschooling conference in August. Be prepared to spend lots of time
at the library. Bring him lots of places, not just "little kid" places. Decide
that your family is all about learning, and explore the things you want to,
too.
I think once you stop worrying about it, you guys are going to have a blast.
Just don't send him to school and mess it up. ;)
Kathryn
In a message dated 7/9/2004 5:08:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
That's a stupid subject line...I am tired and I have had a less than
joyful day (cleaned up a whole box of cat crunchies and about $100 in
pennies off the floor, sat on couch to catch my breath and found
breadcrusts and ants in the cushions, etc). But I am confused about
William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things
when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
to learn things before he is ready...
An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found a
map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this. Today he
asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be president
and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old? And
then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am just
frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I pull
over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while we are
driving). And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for his
money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give him
700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calm him
down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? I
would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this kind
of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
Thanks for listening
Millie
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/9/2004 12:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
Decide that your family is all about learning, and explore the things you
want to,
too.<<<<<
Really good advice needs to be repeated.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
Decide that your family is all about learning, and explore the things you
want to,
too.<<<<<
Really good advice needs to be repeated.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
Millie, huge hugs to you for working hard to keep up with Will. I'm
often over whelmed by my Very Verbal Boy and Mikey seems darn easy
compared to Will! And it's hard to find people to vent to who don't
say "send him to preschool".
I tryed to find some kids' books by people named William, but didn't
have a lot of success. One thing that came up on Amazon is "Bravo,
Mr. William Shakespeare!" by Marcia Williams, aimed at 9-12 yr olds.
You guys might like that. There are some kids books by Willaim Steig--
I've never read any of them.
Most of what I learned from dealing with Mikey at 2 is what NOT to
do, so I'm going to have to think hard to give you any good ideas,
lol. He wants to interact with you more than anything, so having
the "right" answer isn't as important as having fun. He wants to be
right, so say okay, here's 700 million dollars--don't worry, he's not
going to be harmed by thinking he has it, kwim? If I don't know the
answer or don't understand the question, I used to get frustrated,
but now I chant to myself "the point is to carry on the conversation"
while saying "hmm, I'm not sure how to answer that. Did you know
that..." If he wants to try again to ask me, he does, but if he just
wants to keep the conversation going, we do that!
HTH, I'll try to think of more...
--aj
often over whelmed by my Very Verbal Boy and Mikey seems darn easy
compared to Will! And it's hard to find people to vent to who don't
say "send him to preschool".
I tryed to find some kids' books by people named William, but didn't
have a lot of success. One thing that came up on Amazon is "Bravo,
Mr. William Shakespeare!" by Marcia Williams, aimed at 9-12 yr olds.
You guys might like that. There are some kids books by Willaim Steig--
I've never read any of them.
Most of what I learned from dealing with Mikey at 2 is what NOT to
do, so I'm going to have to think hard to give you any good ideas,
lol. He wants to interact with you more than anything, so having
the "right" answer isn't as important as having fun. He wants to be
right, so say okay, here's 700 million dollars--don't worry, he's not
going to be harmed by thinking he has it, kwim? If I don't know the
answer or don't understand the question, I used to get frustrated,
but now I chant to myself "the point is to carry on the conversation"
while saying "hmm, I'm not sure how to answer that. Did you know
that..." If he wants to try again to ask me, he does, but if he just
wants to keep the conversation going, we do that!
HTH, I'll try to think of more...
--aj
Deb Lewis
***He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
Millie! Make a "William" book. Type up some pages of the adventures of
Will and draw little doodles in the margins and put it in a binder and
write his name really big on the front.
Work on volume two when you can. ; ) They'll make him happy and in
your old age they'll be a sweet remembrance of all these wonderful days.
I read Shakespeare to Dylan when he was young. Some volumes now have
teeny little translations in parenthesis of the unusual or out of date
words, so you could explain if he asked. I wouldn't try to explain
unless he did ask.
If he likes poetry there's lots of "William" poets. William Cullan
Bryant, William Butler Yeats, William Carlos Williams, William Vaughn
Moody, William Blake (some good anti-schooling poetry there!<g>
When Dylan was very small he found a set of solar system books at the
library by Isaac Asimov. They had wonderful artwork and we checked them
out over and over again. Dylan too, could name the planets in order from
the sun before he was three. Busy, interesting kids are the easiest
children to live with and unschool with because they already know that
every little minute of life is filled with new things to discover.
Deb Lewis
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
Millie! Make a "William" book. Type up some pages of the adventures of
Will and draw little doodles in the margins and put it in a binder and
write his name really big on the front.
Work on volume two when you can. ; ) They'll make him happy and in
your old age they'll be a sweet remembrance of all these wonderful days.
I read Shakespeare to Dylan when he was young. Some volumes now have
teeny little translations in parenthesis of the unusual or out of date
words, so you could explain if he asked. I wouldn't try to explain
unless he did ask.
If he likes poetry there's lots of "William" poets. William Cullan
Bryant, William Butler Yeats, William Carlos Williams, William Vaughn
Moody, William Blake (some good anti-schooling poetry there!<g>
When Dylan was very small he found a set of solar system books at the
library by Isaac Asimov. They had wonderful artwork and we checked them
out over and over again. Dylan too, could name the planets in order from
the sun before he was three. Busy, interesting kids are the easiest
children to live with and unschool with because they already know that
every little minute of life is filled with new things to discover.
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/9/2004 7:00:04 PM Central Standard Time, somebody _else_
(mailto:else@...) writes:
***He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
~~~
I found it! Since I first read this, I have been trying to locate a book we
have that belongs to MY William.
It's called _The Story of a Boy Named Will, Who Went Sledding Down the Hill_
by Daniil Kharms. Published by North-South Books, ISBN 1-55858-214-2 (as
far as I can tell even with my glasses on, it's really tiny.) I'll bet you can
find it on _www.abebooks.com_ (http://www.abebooks.com) if not at Amazon.
It's a translation from Russian, and the illustrations are beautiful. The
name Will is featured prominently on the cover. Maybe it will be an appealing
book to your little boy.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(mailto:else@...) writes:
***He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
~~~
I found it! Since I first read this, I have been trying to locate a book we
have that belongs to MY William.
It's called _The Story of a Boy Named Will, Who Went Sledding Down the Hill_
by Daniil Kharms. Published by North-South Books, ISBN 1-55858-214-2 (as
far as I can tell even with my glasses on, it's really tiny.) I'll bet you can
find it on _www.abebooks.com_ (http://www.abebooks.com) if not at Amazon.
It's a translation from Russian, and the illustrations are beautiful. The
name Will is featured prominently on the cover. Maybe it will be an appealing
book to your little boy.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/10/2004 9:30:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:
***He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
William Wegman's photo books with Weimaraners.
We also happened upon several books written by a woman names Pamela Duncan
Edwards---because of the name Duncan on the cover. They're great---beautifully
illustrated with funny stories. _Some Smug Slug_ is all "S's"---alliteration.
_Four Famished Foxes and Fosdyke_ is full of.....yep---"F's" and a neat
reference to the stages of the moon.
_Barefoot_ is related to the Underground Railroad---and is just stunning.
And _Livingstone Mouse_ is looking for a place to live---and finds "China".
REALLY sweet and beautiful.
Even if you *don't* have a child named Duncan <g>, her books are wonderful!
Here's a description of her work: _http://www.childrenslit.com/f_edw_p.htm_
(http://www.childrenslit.com/f_edw_p.htm)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***He found my copy a while ago and he wants
me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
sees his name on the front of the book).***
William Wegman's photo books with Weimaraners.
We also happened upon several books written by a woman names Pamela Duncan
Edwards---because of the name Duncan on the cover. They're great---beautifully
illustrated with funny stories. _Some Smug Slug_ is all "S's"---alliteration.
_Four Famished Foxes and Fosdyke_ is full of.....yep---"F's" and a neat
reference to the stages of the moon.
_Barefoot_ is related to the Underground Railroad---and is just stunning.
And _Livingstone Mouse_ is looking for a place to live---and finds "China".
REALLY sweet and beautiful.
Even if you *don't* have a child named Duncan <g>, her books are wonderful!
Here's a description of her work: _http://www.childrenslit.com/f_edw_p.htm_
(http://www.childrenslit.com/f_edw_p.htm)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Clevenger
--- In [email protected], "Millie Rosa" <willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
Another time at around the same age just after a trip to the gas station, he asked me how our car engine worked. When I started with a simplistic description he interrupted and asked imperiously how it *really* worked. So I started with the gas tank and talked him through the fuel lines, fuel injectors, cylinders, pistons, exhaust valves, cam shaft, etc. I thought to myself that there was no way he could've understand any of what I was saying, but I told him none the same. A couple of days later at a playgroup he was jumping up and down in a foam cylinder yelling "Look mom, I'm a piston!" So from my verbal description, he was able to construct in his head a pretty accurate idea of what a piston does in a cylinder. After that, I made no more assumptions about what he was or wasn't ready to learn and have always just answered his questions fully to the best of my ability or said "I don't know, let's look that up."
So my advice with your son would be to start by tossing out the assumption of "readiness" and just go with what he's interested in. Chances are, he might have some pretty deep interests that he really delves into, but a few months or years later he might move onto something else - so don't get too attached to the things he is fascinated with, just go with the flow. The train thing lasted several years for Mackenzie, but I think now if I asked him what a "Mallet" was, he might not remember. That's okay though, as long as he was interested in the knowledge then, it has some place in his life long-term, whether he retains the specifics or not. To this day, he can look at some kind of device and the wheels start turning in his brain, he just has to figure out how it works, how the gears mesh, what makes it tick. He just has that ability to mentally take things apart and figure out how they work. Since he's the son of an airplane mechanic (DH) and a former software geek (me), it is not surprising I guess!
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Radmama to Mackenzie (8/28/96) and Asa (10/5/99)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But I am confused aboutYour William sounds so much like my son Mackenzie at that age - and he probably is "ready" in his own way. For instance, Mackenzie was really *really* into trains. I have a clear memory of standing by some railroad tracks with a whole bunch of broken down engines. Mackenzie was around 21 months old, I think. He was trying to tell me something, but I couldn't understand him, it sounded like "Mally". He got so angry, he stamped his little foot and said "Mally, mama, Mally! Two sets driving wheels!" It was only a month or so later when I came across a book that mentioned that the "Mallet" steam locomotive (named after its inventor, Antoine Mallet) was distinguished primarily by having two sets of driving wheels and pistons, instead of one. Whoa, talk about a lightbulb moment! He was ready for much more information than I even fully understood at the time.
> William. I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things
> when they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding
> to learn things before he is ready...
Another time at around the same age just after a trip to the gas station, he asked me how our car engine worked. When I started with a simplistic description he interrupted and asked imperiously how it *really* worked. So I started with the gas tank and talked him through the fuel lines, fuel injectors, cylinders, pistons, exhaust valves, cam shaft, etc. I thought to myself that there was no way he could've understand any of what I was saying, but I told him none the same. A couple of days later at a playgroup he was jumping up and down in a foam cylinder yelling "Look mom, I'm a piston!" So from my verbal description, he was able to construct in his head a pretty accurate idea of what a piston does in a cylinder. After that, I made no more assumptions about what he was or wasn't ready to learn and have always just answered his questions fully to the best of my ability or said "I don't know, let's look that up."
So my advice with your son would be to start by tossing out the assumption of "readiness" and just go with what he's interested in. Chances are, he might have some pretty deep interests that he really delves into, but a few months or years later he might move onto something else - so don't get too attached to the things he is fascinated with, just go with the flow. The train thing lasted several years for Mackenzie, but I think now if I asked him what a "Mallet" was, he might not remember. That's okay though, as long as he was interested in the knowledge then, it has some place in his life long-term, whether he retains the specifics or not. To this day, he can look at some kind of device and the wheels start turning in his brain, he just has to figure out how it works, how the gears mesh, what makes it tick. He just has that ability to mentally take things apart and figure out how they work. Since he's the son of an airplane mechanic (DH) and a former software geek (me), it is not surprising I guess!
> An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found aThis makes sense if you think of the ways young brains acquire information. Something like the planets is basically memorization, something young kids do relatively easily. After all, they master thousands of words in the English language in their first few years. At that age, Mackenzie knew all of the states on our U.S. Map puzzle, but when we went to Florida to visit his grandparents, he couldn't get the idea that we weren't still in Washington state. His world view wasn't big enough to extrapolate the things he'd memorized on the map to actual places that were on a big round planet that were thousands of miles apart. Your son will get it eventually, but it will take a lot of little building blocks of facts and understandings before his brain is ready to grasp such an abstract conceptual fact. You can still keep explaining though, and feeding his thirst for the knowledge, just don't have the expecatation that because he can understand some facts very easily and quickly that more abstract facts will also be ready to fall into line, it might take some time.
> map of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
> planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
> and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
> since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
> universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
> look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
> asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
> that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this.
> Today heI just told my kids that he's the leader of the place that we live in. And that we get to choose who the leader is, every few years. So the leader might change. As they have gotten older, my explanations have gotten much more complex to keep pace with what they can understand. Right around when my daughter turned two is when September 11 happened, now *that* was difficult to explain! Some things are tough, and you just need to find ways to break it down to the point where they can grasp it. You can always add more later when they're ready for it.
> asked me who is John Kerry and I told him he wants to be president
> and he said "George Bush is our president." And then "What is a
> president?" How am I supposed to explain that to a 2 year old?
> AndHe doesn't have to, to enjoy it. I was a very early reader and at a fairly young age was mowing through every book in our house. Lots of what I read I didn't understand (I remember reading "Incredible Victory" in grade school, for instance.) I didn't have the context to grasp a lot of what I read, but that didn't dampen my enjoyment of it. I would just continue reading it, you might be surprised at how much he'll get out of it. When my son first started getting interested in ancient Roman history last year, he was fascinated by Julius Caesar. I told him that this man named Shakespeare had written a play about Julius Caesar and he says "I know mom, that's where that quote about unleashing the dogs of war comes from." Turns out, we had read "Watership Down" a year or so prior, and it had several quotes from Shakespeare in it, including the famous "dogs of war" one. You never know what they store away in those memory banks! That's part of the beauty of unschooling to me. Since they're not told what is and isn't important, what connections they have to store and which they don't, because their brains aren't stuffed full of knowledge that they may or may not need, they are free to make the most marvelous and intriguing connections between the things that they hear, learn, or read, and are passionate about.
> then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he wants
> me to read it to him every day because it is a "William book," (he
> sees his name on the front of the book). But I can hardly understand
> it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to translate it for him?
> I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits and listens for as long
> as I will read it and only asks what specific words mean not what is
> going on but my gosh, come on, this seems so weird that he wants me
> to read this to him. He cannot be understanding it.
> I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am justRelax, this is totally normal! Kids thirst for knowledge comes well before their aquisition of an adult-like world view. Conceptual things like why mom can't hold them while driving or where the earth is in relation to other planets will come with time. In the meantime, just keep answering questions to the best of your ability, and offer to look up anything you don't know. In time, he'll be looking stuff up himself.
> frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a child
> who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
> understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, I pull
> over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while we are
> driving).
> And he gets so frustrated w me! Today he asked for hisI don't know about other folks, but this sounds like pretty normal 2 y.o. behavior to me. They are not really rational beings, LOL. When they are bright and inquisitive, it just gives them greater ability to find things to drive you crazy with. But this is a good thing. Sometimes, at that age, the best you can do is reflect their feelings back to them and offer alternatives. "You're frustrated because you'd really like me to give you 700 million bucks, but I don't have that much money. We can make play money together, or I can write you a check."
> money and I gave him his bank. He was counting pennies and
> said "Mama give me 700 million bucks." I laugh, tell him I don't
> have that kind of money and he gets SO MAD demanding that I give him
> 700 million bucks. Finally I wrote him a check and that did calm him
> down! Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this?
> IWell, 2 year olds can be quite a handful, especially if their brains are going a million miles a minute, but they don't really have the context yet to understand what limitations there are in the real world. It's great to have this kind of inquisitive and imaginative child, but they can be a challenge. Keeping up with their quest for knowledge is definitely a full-time job! I have definitely dealt with this two times around now (my youngest is almost 5) and at times it has really tried my patience and other times has been the most incredible thing I've ever been a part of. It sounds like William is an amazing kid who will keep you on your toes for many years to come. Kids like this make it easier in many ways to unschool because their natural curiousity takes them in so many fascinating directions. The challenge is how to fit in everything that they want/need to learn/do/see/experience. Just cut yourself and William some slack, don't expect that because his brain is motoring along that his world view will keep pace. Even with a very inquisitive brain, it just takes time to aquire the knowledge and make the connections to begin to understand the world around you. Kids like this will test every single assumption you might have, but the journey is very worth it!
> would love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this kind
> of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
> frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Radmama to Mackenzie (8/28/96) and Asa (10/5/99)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.
Thanks.
Joan
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.
Thanks.
Joan
Laura Gates-Lupton
I have a book recommendation for you. It's _Protecting the Gift_ by Gavin DeBecker. He is a security expert and this book is written for parents. He has some great, practical advice that you can share with your children including telling them that should they ever be lost to ask a woman for help since a woman is far less likely to be a predator.
My kids are still young--6, 4 and 18 mos. so I haven't had to deal with them being out in the world much without me. I'm not one who thinks telling my kids not to talk to is the least bit protective. I've seen parents tell their kids to beware of strangers and then turn around and get mad at them when they don't respond to polite inquiries from people they don't know in the grocery store. I found the above mentioned book when I was looking for an alternative to the traditional "stranger danger" approach for protecting kids.
Hope that's helpful,
Laura in RI
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese <salgenovese@...> wrote:
So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.
Thanks.
Joan
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids are still young--6, 4 and 18 mos. so I haven't had to deal with them being out in the world much without me. I'm not one who thinks telling my kids not to talk to is the least bit protective. I've seen parents tell their kids to beware of strangers and then turn around and get mad at them when they don't respond to polite inquiries from people they don't know in the grocery store. I found the above mentioned book when I was looking for an alternative to the traditional "stranger danger" approach for protecting kids.
Hope that's helpful,
Laura in RI
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese <salgenovese@...> wrote:
So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.
Thanks.
Joan
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/10/2004 3:28:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
salgenovese@... writes:
So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.<<<<
Unlike schooled children, who are apart from their mothers most of the day
and from early on, unschooled children are with us almost all the time. Or
with a trusted friend/family member. We don't tell them to go off with strangers
on a daily basis----like they do in school.
My younger son, never schooled, has a healthy fear of the unknown. My older
son, eight years at school, is the one I'd worry more about. We pushed
shaking hands with strangers, making eye contact, and other "adult" greetings for
strangers with Cameron (16). Duncan (8) is wary of people who come up to him
and stick out their hands in greeting. I think that's more of a normal
response from a child---if you really think about it. But we seem to push that
"firm handshake/eye contact" greeting dangerously early, IMO.
There just isn't much of an opportunity for Duncan to be alone with a
stranger. Not like there was for Cameron, who was gone most of the day on a campus
full of strangers (not to mention field-trips!).
And age has very little to do with it. I know of an 18 year old girl
(legally an adult) who disappeared 12 years ago. I used to babysit her and her
brother. God! Dale would be 30 now!
I'll tell Duncan and Cameron how icky somebody we meet makes me feel. How
there's something about that guy that makes me uncomfortable. How I just don't
trust so-and-so. I never make them kiss or hug strangers or even family
members if they don't want to. I like for them to tell me when someone makes them
uncomfortable too, and I make sure I'm right there if we have to deal with
this person again for any reason.
My father's a shrink. He was the forensic psychiatrist for SC for several
years. As Cameron's gotten older, I tell him stories of weirdos my father knew.
PeeWee Gaskins was a real winner. This freak actually wrote a book. A couple
of scenes stand out in my mind. Cameron's 16 and has a car, so I think he's
more than ready to know the more graphic stories I've told him. He's very
tender-hearted, so I DO worry about his picking up hitch-hikers or handing out
$$ to panhandlers. But he's also level-headed and really listens to me when I'm
worried. He's at the beach this weekend. <g> I'm OK. PeeWee's dead.
I think just having them WITH you makes a huge lot of difference. As they
get older and more able to handle details, then you can give more information.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
salgenovese@... writes:
So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned
about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran
unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the
whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by
somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive
daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized.
I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them
for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I
somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we
talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?
How does trusting your children in life enter into this area? I would
appreciate any insight and love to hear how you all handle this and/or view
this.<<<<
Unlike schooled children, who are apart from their mothers most of the day
and from early on, unschooled children are with us almost all the time. Or
with a trusted friend/family member. We don't tell them to go off with strangers
on a daily basis----like they do in school.
My younger son, never schooled, has a healthy fear of the unknown. My older
son, eight years at school, is the one I'd worry more about. We pushed
shaking hands with strangers, making eye contact, and other "adult" greetings for
strangers with Cameron (16). Duncan (8) is wary of people who come up to him
and stick out their hands in greeting. I think that's more of a normal
response from a child---if you really think about it. But we seem to push that
"firm handshake/eye contact" greeting dangerously early, IMO.
There just isn't much of an opportunity for Duncan to be alone with a
stranger. Not like there was for Cameron, who was gone most of the day on a campus
full of strangers (not to mention field-trips!).
And age has very little to do with it. I know of an 18 year old girl
(legally an adult) who disappeared 12 years ago. I used to babysit her and her
brother. God! Dale would be 30 now!
I'll tell Duncan and Cameron how icky somebody we meet makes me feel. How
there's something about that guy that makes me uncomfortable. How I just don't
trust so-and-so. I never make them kiss or hug strangers or even family
members if they don't want to. I like for them to tell me when someone makes them
uncomfortable too, and I make sure I'm right there if we have to deal with
this person again for any reason.
My father's a shrink. He was the forensic psychiatrist for SC for several
years. As Cameron's gotten older, I tell him stories of weirdos my father knew.
PeeWee Gaskins was a real winner. This freak actually wrote a book. A couple
of scenes stand out in my mind. Cameron's 16 and has a car, so I think he's
more than ready to know the more graphic stories I've told him. He's very
tender-hearted, so I DO worry about his picking up hitch-hikers or handing out
$$ to panhandlers. But he's also level-headed and really listens to me when I'm
worried. He's at the beach this weekend. <g> I'm OK. PeeWee's dead.
I think just having them WITH you makes a huge lot of difference. As they
get older and more able to handle details, then you can give more information.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kimberly Fry
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese <salgenovese@...> wrote:
-----So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized. I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?-----
"Child Lures" is a book by Kenneth Wooden. I'm not sure if you're worried about sexual abuse or abduction. The book covers both.
"Stranger Danger" is kinda a misnomer. The danger usually comes from someone the child knows and who has built up trust with the child, i.e. relative, neighbor, teacher, family friend, etc. The best way you can protect your child is to keep an open line of communication with them. Make sure they know they should never go with someone without your permission. If they are old enough, have a code word. If Aunt Sue was to go by the house to pick them up when you weren't there, they'd only go if Aunt Sue had the code word.
Make sure your child knows no one except their doctor should be touching under where their swimsuit goes. And that if someone does, or tries to, that they should tell you immediately.
You encourage them to not keep secrets from you and if someone (an adult -- not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a secret, be sure they know to let you know what it is.
For the actual strangers -- same type of things. At the park, they don't help someone look for a lost pet or child without you right there with them. They don't accept candy from people they don't know, etc. Please realize that, unfortunately, the danger is not usually a stranger.
DON'T sit your child down and have a lecture on it. Blend it in with regular activities. When you go to the park, play "what would you do, if ...?"
You can call 1-800-4-A-CHILD for more specific information.
Hope that helps.
---------------------------------
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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-----So here is an area I have been pretty much ignoring but am sort of concerned about as my kids get older, and now I'm curious as to how you veteran unschoolers handle "stranger danger". I feel really uncomfortable with the whole idea of somehow making my kids fearful of the world around them by somehow describing possible future threats to them. I have a sensitive daughter who, no matter how I presented it, I am sure would feel terrorized. I am unsure however if this makes me somehow remiss in not "preparing" them for some future encounter with a person who preys on children? Should I somehow be helping them evaluate people? Are we doing that already when we talk about people we like and don't like, so I don't need to do any more?-----
"Child Lures" is a book by Kenneth Wooden. I'm not sure if you're worried about sexual abuse or abduction. The book covers both.
"Stranger Danger" is kinda a misnomer. The danger usually comes from someone the child knows and who has built up trust with the child, i.e. relative, neighbor, teacher, family friend, etc. The best way you can protect your child is to keep an open line of communication with them. Make sure they know they should never go with someone without your permission. If they are old enough, have a code word. If Aunt Sue was to go by the house to pick them up when you weren't there, they'd only go if Aunt Sue had the code word.
Make sure your child knows no one except their doctor should be touching under where their swimsuit goes. And that if someone does, or tries to, that they should tell you immediately.
You encourage them to not keep secrets from you and if someone (an adult -- not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a secret, be sure they know to let you know what it is.
For the actual strangers -- same type of things. At the park, they don't help someone look for a lost pet or child without you right there with them. They don't accept candy from people they don't know, etc. Please realize that, unfortunately, the danger is not usually a stranger.
DON'T sit your child down and have a lecture on it. Blend it in with regular activities. When you go to the park, play "what would you do, if ...?"
You can call 1-800-4-A-CHILD for more specific information.
Hope that helps.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Thanks for your response, Kelly. That gave me a lot to think about. And
thanks for the book recommendations, Laura & Kim. I'll check them out.
Joan
thanks for the book recommendations, Laura & Kim. I'll check them out.
Joan
[email protected]
I need to do an intro but I wanted to comment on this.
The two suggestions below are very good suggestions especially the second
one.
All situations differ a bit but in the end the second one is the one that
many children fear to follow. <<<<You encourage them to not keep secrets from you
and if someone (an adult -- not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a
secret, be sure they know to let you know what it is. >>
For example: My sisters daughter for over ten years was molested and possibly
raped (she wont tell any more) by her daddy and didn't tell her mom. Her
mother being a victim of his abuse (when married to him) talked to her daughter
over the years and asked all the right questions and offered all the information
she could.
A judge forced visitation and threatened to take custody away from her if she
didn't send the kids to see him across the US (she moved to avoid
visitation).
The judge's reasoning was that he had never been "charged"* for harming a
child. Years later at 16 the daughter told her mom but only after her friends and
brother talked her into telling. The visits included the brother but the
father always would wake her and say she was kicking him and bring her to his bed
or he would send his son to the store or something. Scary but true.
*The good news is that he was sentenced last year is now in a NH Jail. He
awaits a trial in Utah (visited the kids in a hotel, yes there also). When he is
done in Utah he will be brought back to NH (we hope) for raping me when I was
13. I didn't tell anyone myself for years because I was ashamed and in a
foster home for running away the week I was raped. He admitted to my sister what he
did and just said he wanted to know what it was like to have two sisters.
Sick I know.....
In both situations mine and my niece we both froze. We didn't yell scream or
tell even though we knew we should.
Laura
<<Make sure your child knows no one except their doctor should be touching
under where their swimsuit goes. And that if someone does, or tries to, that
they should tell you immediately.
You encourage them to not keep secrets from you and if someone (an adult --
not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a secret, be sure they know to let
you know what it is. >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The two suggestions below are very good suggestions especially the second
one.
All situations differ a bit but in the end the second one is the one that
many children fear to follow. <<<<You encourage them to not keep secrets from you
and if someone (an adult -- not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a
secret, be sure they know to let you know what it is. >>
For example: My sisters daughter for over ten years was molested and possibly
raped (she wont tell any more) by her daddy and didn't tell her mom. Her
mother being a victim of his abuse (when married to him) talked to her daughter
over the years and asked all the right questions and offered all the information
she could.
A judge forced visitation and threatened to take custody away from her if she
didn't send the kids to see him across the US (she moved to avoid
visitation).
The judge's reasoning was that he had never been "charged"* for harming a
child. Years later at 16 the daughter told her mom but only after her friends and
brother talked her into telling. The visits included the brother but the
father always would wake her and say she was kicking him and bring her to his bed
or he would send his son to the store or something. Scary but true.
*The good news is that he was sentenced last year is now in a NH Jail. He
awaits a trial in Utah (visited the kids in a hotel, yes there also). When he is
done in Utah he will be brought back to NH (we hope) for raping me when I was
13. I didn't tell anyone myself for years because I was ashamed and in a
foster home for running away the week I was raped. He admitted to my sister what he
did and just said he wanted to know what it was like to have two sisters.
Sick I know.....
In both situations mine and my niece we both froze. We didn't yell scream or
tell even though we knew we should.
Laura
<<Make sure your child knows no one except their doctor should be touching
under where their swimsuit goes. And that if someone does, or tries to, that
they should tell you immediately.
You encourage them to not keep secrets from you and if someone (an adult --
not another 6 year old) asks them to keep a secret, be sure they know to let
you know what it is. >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
--- In [email protected], "Millie Rosa"
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things when
they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding to
learn things before he is ready...
*****I'm running behind, so I'm sure someone has already said
this... He's ready if he's demanding to learn.
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this.
***** Laurie did this too (although not with the Solar System). She
called it 'immersion learning.' She'd get interested in a topic and
she'd check out every book on the topic from the library. I'd have
to help her carry them because they were so heavy. She still learms
by immersion. She'll find out everything she can on a topic before
she goes on to something else. Sometimes, like when she's in
college, she's learning everything she can about 5-8 topics at a
time.
Will might enjoy seeing movies like Space Camp, Apollo 13,
Armageddon, Space Cowboys (www.hobbyspace.com/Movies) and other
space travel movies. There are many sites online about space too.
www.space.com , www.heavens-above.com , www.nasa.com ,
www.spaceflight.nasa.com Is there a space center near you? Is there
a planetarium nearby? Is there any way you can get him a telescope?
And then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he
wants me to read it to him every day because it is a "William
book," (he sees his name on the front of the book). But I can
hardly understand it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to
translate it for him? I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits
and listens for as long as I will read it and only asks what
specific words mean not what is going on but my gosh, come on, this
seems so weird that he wants me to read this to him. He cannot be
understanding it.
***** I love it! Is there a Shakespeare Festival near you so he
could see the plays that you have read? Maybe he is understanding it
and he'll translate it for you some day. ;-) Two-year olds learn
foreign languages so easily, so it's highly possible that he does
know what's going on. btw, this is exactly how Laurie learned to
read. I read to her for 3-4 hours a day from books that were
supposedly too complex for her age. pfffffttttt
we are driving).
***** Is there a back road where you can let him do this? Explain to
him that you are letting him do it because there are no other cars
on the road. Laurie loved doing this with her grandfather, but only
on the backest of roads. The same with riding in the back of the
truck...something we did as kids all the time.
kind of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
so easily that I have to struggle with. BUT I am so so so much wiser
now than I was before I had her. I've learned with her for 24 years
now. I didn't allow myself to feel stupid (and there were plenty of
instances where I could have felt that way) but instead focused on
helping her find out what she wanted to know and therefore learned
it myself. She's still way ahead of me in the "what she knows"
category, but I can garden, sew and cook better than she can. ;-)
love, Valerie
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
I see you guys talking about how kids will approach things when
they are ready, but it seems like Will is hungry and demanding to
learn things before he is ready...
*****I'm running behind, so I'm sure someone has already said
this... He's ready if he's demanding to learn.
> An example is the Solar System. He was 14 mos old when he found amap of the solar system in a book. He would point to each of the
planets and scream "DIS" until I would name what he was pointing at
and soon he was naming all the planets in correct order. And he has
since had out every book our library has on the solar system and the
universe and will tell you all sorts of amazing things. Yet when we
look at the night sky, he points to Venus and Mars and always
asks "Where is the Earth." I have explained every way I know how
that we are on Earth and he just doesn't seem to get this.
***** Laurie did this too (although not with the Solar System). She
called it 'immersion learning.' She'd get interested in a topic and
she'd check out every book on the topic from the library. I'd have
to help her carry them because they were so heavy. She still learms
by immersion. She'll find out everything she can on a topic before
she goes on to something else. Sometimes, like when she's in
college, she's learning everything she can about 5-8 topics at a
time.
Will might enjoy seeing movies like Space Camp, Apollo 13,
Armageddon, Space Cowboys (www.hobbyspace.com/Movies) and other
space travel movies. There are many sites online about space too.
www.space.com , www.heavens-above.com , www.nasa.com ,
www.spaceflight.nasa.com Is there a space center near you? Is there
a planetarium nearby? Is there any way you can get him a telescope?
And then there is Shakespeare. He found my copy a while ago and he
wants me to read it to him every day because it is a "William
book," (he sees his name on the front of the book). But I can
hardly understand it myself and so how on earth am I supposed to
translate it for him? I mean, I guess I don't have to, he just sits
and listens for as long as I will read it and only asks what
specific words mean not what is going on but my gosh, come on, this
seems so weird that he wants me to read this to him. He cannot be
understanding it.
***** I love it! Is there a Shakespeare Festival near you so he
could see the plays that you have read? Maybe he is understanding it
and he'll translate it for you some day. ;-) Two-year olds learn
foreign languages so easily, so it's highly possible that he does
know what's going on. btw, this is exactly how Laurie learned to
read. I read to her for 3-4 hours a day from books that were
supposedly too complex for her age. pfffffttttt
> I don't know what my specific question is here I guess I am justchild who has learned to read and tell time etc at 2 but yet cannot
> frustrated and rambling. It is so weird to be dealing with a
> understand that I cannot hold him while we are driving. (yes, Ipull over, that isn't what he wants...he wants me to hold him while
we are driving).
***** Is there a back road where you can let him do this? Explain to
him that you are letting him do it because there are no other cars
on the road. Laurie loved doing this with her grandfather, but only
on the backest of roads. The same with riding in the back of the
truck...something we did as kids all the time.
>Isn't this crazy? Do any of you have a kid like this? Iwould love to find another Mama to talk to who has dealt w this
kind of thing. Sorry for all the rambling but I am feeling highly
> frustrated and stupid and am really hoping to hear a btdt.****** Laurie is far more intelligent than I am. She grasps things
> Thanks for listening
> Millie
so easily that I have to struggle with. BUT I am so so so much wiser
now than I was before I had her. I've learned with her for 24 years
now. I didn't allow myself to feel stupid (and there were plenty of
instances where I could have felt that way) but instead focused on
helping her find out what she wanted to know and therefore learned
it myself. She's still way ahead of me in the "what she knows"
category, but I can garden, sew and cook better than she can. ;-)
love, Valerie
Valerie
IF Will asks for translation of Shakespeare, try the Cliff's Notes
or another book like that. Here's a website:
http://www.shakespearemadeeasy.com/
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
or another book like that. Here's a website:
http://www.shakespearemadeeasy.com/
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
<<<All situations differ a bit but in the end the second one is the one that
many children fear to follow. >>>
Laura,
I'm so saddened to hear this happened in your family. Thanks so much for
sharing it. I'm wondering if there is anything that you feel in retrospect
would have helped you over the fear of telling ... that for instance, you
might tell your own daughter in the knowledge it could help her not keep
such a secret from you?
Joan
many children fear to follow. >>>
Laura,
I'm so saddened to hear this happened in your family. Thanks so much for
sharing it. I'm wondering if there is anything that you feel in retrospect
would have helped you over the fear of telling ... that for instance, you
might tell your own daughter in the knowledge it could help her not keep
such a secret from you?
Joan
[email protected]
<<<I'm so saddened to hear this happened in your family. Thanks so much for
sharing it. I'm wondering if there is anything that you feel in retrospect
would have helped you over the fear of telling ... that for instance, you
might tell your own daughter in the knowledge it could help her not keep
such a secret from you?
Joan>>>
In my situation I waited until her relationship with him ended and I was
certain she would not hate me forever. So I guess in my mind I felt I somehow
asked for it and feared her and my family disliking me rather than my hurt.
I did attend the hearing for my closure and my niece as she was out of state
and is confused about her relationship with him. I ended up talking to the DA
and found out I was still within the allowed years to come forward on my case
(one smart thing I did do is report it but they didn't pursue it bc they
thought I made it up, in the 80's they didn't look at rape the same as they do
now). I began the process of a statement in August but found out I was expecting
so I chose to delay until after my delivery. I dont know at this point what
to do.. I just dont know if I want to put my self or family through the stress.
So to answer you question after thinking more I think had I known he was
beating my sister (even pregnant with a baseball bat),rapeing her in front of her
baby with a knife and driving her down dirt roads telling her to get out and
that their was someone there to kill her.. I would have screamed it from the
roof tops. She didn't tell anyone what he was doing until she left him.
I still carry guilt over all of this. If I had reported it right away and
they charged him his daughter would never have gone through the trauma that she
did. I just didn't have the family support to feel comfort enough to confront
them when it happened. Not to mention that she (my sister) and I had run away
from home that week. The next week I was at my dads getting beaten (that's just
what he did) and a week later he forced her to marry him bc she was pregnant.
There just wasn't any time.
I actually think my mom thought well there ya go that's what you get for
running away....
I guess im rambling now but that's my thinking on the whys and why nots.
I just dont know how I would handle the conversations with Cassidy. Right now
she will not talk to a stranger (and some we know) and I dont make her. I
think just keeping open communication is key right now. She (or any of my kids)
have never been without us unless they are at Grammy's. I dont us sitters and
prob never will because of this experience and others in my life and my sisters.
Laura
(in search of a sig line)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharing it. I'm wondering if there is anything that you feel in retrospect
would have helped you over the fear of telling ... that for instance, you
might tell your own daughter in the knowledge it could help her not keep
such a secret from you?
Joan>>>
In my situation I waited until her relationship with him ended and I was
certain she would not hate me forever. So I guess in my mind I felt I somehow
asked for it and feared her and my family disliking me rather than my hurt.
I did attend the hearing for my closure and my niece as she was out of state
and is confused about her relationship with him. I ended up talking to the DA
and found out I was still within the allowed years to come forward on my case
(one smart thing I did do is report it but they didn't pursue it bc they
thought I made it up, in the 80's they didn't look at rape the same as they do
now). I began the process of a statement in August but found out I was expecting
so I chose to delay until after my delivery. I dont know at this point what
to do.. I just dont know if I want to put my self or family through the stress.
So to answer you question after thinking more I think had I known he was
beating my sister (even pregnant with a baseball bat),rapeing her in front of her
baby with a knife and driving her down dirt roads telling her to get out and
that their was someone there to kill her.. I would have screamed it from the
roof tops. She didn't tell anyone what he was doing until she left him.
I still carry guilt over all of this. If I had reported it right away and
they charged him his daughter would never have gone through the trauma that she
did. I just didn't have the family support to feel comfort enough to confront
them when it happened. Not to mention that she (my sister) and I had run away
from home that week. The next week I was at my dads getting beaten (that's just
what he did) and a week later he forced her to marry him bc she was pregnant.
There just wasn't any time.
I actually think my mom thought well there ya go that's what you get for
running away....
I guess im rambling now but that's my thinking on the whys and why nots.
I just dont know how I would handle the conversations with Cassidy. Right now
she will not talk to a stranger (and some we know) and I dont make her. I
think just keeping open communication is key right now. She (or any of my kids)
have never been without us unless they are at Grammy's. I dont us sitters and
prob never will because of this experience and others in my life and my sisters.
Laura
(in search of a sig line)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]