newbie in Rhode Island
Ren Allen
"He really does need the speech therapy that the schools provide right
now and he made amazing progress in prek last year and
really started to blossom with his social and speech skills."
At this list, you'll hear about how those types of intervention can be
harmful. If a child goes to speech therapy for long enough, it will
SEEM to work, because they hit a developmental stage and start talking
more.
There are very few people on earth, that really need any kind of
intervention that way.
I have a child that didn't talk until three years of age. I heard
about "don't you think he needs speech therapy?" a few times.
He's 5 now, and talks just fine.
He'd probably be labeled with several "disabilities" if I had him
tested. He will always just be Jalen. He will develop in his own time
and way.
Unschooling works for all children. Schooling will only be a stumbling
block to joyful unschooling. We're here to help people trust their
children, trust the learning process and trust themselves to provide a
stimulating, rich environment for their children.
I'm glad you see unschooling as an option, I hope we can provide
enough resources for you to see that it will work wonderful for both
your children!! Check out the "links" section of this site for some
great reading and information.
And please, please read this article by Anne Ohman, I think you'll
really love it: http://www.bayshoreeducational.com/articleanne.html
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
now and he made amazing progress in prek last year and
really started to blossom with his social and speech skills."
At this list, you'll hear about how those types of intervention can be
harmful. If a child goes to speech therapy for long enough, it will
SEEM to work, because they hit a developmental stage and start talking
more.
There are very few people on earth, that really need any kind of
intervention that way.
I have a child that didn't talk until three years of age. I heard
about "don't you think he needs speech therapy?" a few times.
He's 5 now, and talks just fine.
He'd probably be labeled with several "disabilities" if I had him
tested. He will always just be Jalen. He will develop in his own time
and way.
Unschooling works for all children. Schooling will only be a stumbling
block to joyful unschooling. We're here to help people trust their
children, trust the learning process and trust themselves to provide a
stimulating, rich environment for their children.
I'm glad you see unschooling as an option, I hope we can provide
enough resources for you to see that it will work wonderful for both
your children!! Check out the "links" section of this site for some
great reading and information.
And please, please read this article by Anne Ohman, I think you'll
really love it: http://www.bayshoreeducational.com/articleanne.html
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Jennifer Long
Ren,
I was reading the welcome message and one of the things that was posted was that anything you put in a post is pretty much up for discussion: I LOVE this! I think its great hearing different points of view. I have a good friend whose brother didnt speak til he was 4 and his mother never did speech therapy or anything like that. My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right? Thats how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-its mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age. Anyway, it works for us. I am though, totally open to others opinions and thoughts on this!! :-)
Jen L.
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"He really does need the speech therapy that the schools provide right
now and he made amazing progress in prek last year and
really started to blossom with his social and speech skills."
At this list, you'll hear about how those types of intervention can be
harmful. If a child goes to speech therapy for long enough, it will
SEEM to work, because they hit a developmental stage and start talking
more.
There are very few people on earth, that really need any kind of
intervention that way.
I have a child that didn't talk until three years of age. I heard
about "don't you think he needs speech therapy?" a few times.
He's 5 now, and talks just fine.
He'd probably be labeled with several "disabilities" if I had him
tested. He will always just be Jalen. He will develop in his own time
and way.
Unschooling works for all children. Schooling will only be a stumbling
block to joyful unschooling. We're here to help people trust their
children, trust the learning process and trust themselves to provide a
stimulating, rich environment for their children.
I'm glad you see unschooling as an option, I hope we can provide
enough resources for you to see that it will work wonderful for both
your children!! Check out the "links" section of this site for some
great reading and information.
And please, please read this article by Anne Ohman, I think you'll
really love it: http://www.bayshoreeducational.com/articleanne.html
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was reading the welcome message and one of the things that was posted was that anything you put in a post is pretty much up for discussion: I LOVE this! I think its great hearing different points of view. I have a good friend whose brother didnt speak til he was 4 and his mother never did speech therapy or anything like that. My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right? Thats how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-its mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age. Anyway, it works for us. I am though, totally open to others opinions and thoughts on this!! :-)
Jen L.
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"He really does need the speech therapy that the schools provide right
now and he made amazing progress in prek last year and
really started to blossom with his social and speech skills."
At this list, you'll hear about how those types of intervention can be
harmful. If a child goes to speech therapy for long enough, it will
SEEM to work, because they hit a developmental stage and start talking
more.
There are very few people on earth, that really need any kind of
intervention that way.
I have a child that didn't talk until three years of age. I heard
about "don't you think he needs speech therapy?" a few times.
He's 5 now, and talks just fine.
He'd probably be labeled with several "disabilities" if I had him
tested. He will always just be Jalen. He will develop in his own time
and way.
Unschooling works for all children. Schooling will only be a stumbling
block to joyful unschooling. We're here to help people trust their
children, trust the learning process and trust themselves to provide a
stimulating, rich environment for their children.
I'm glad you see unschooling as an option, I hope we can provide
enough resources for you to see that it will work wonderful for both
your children!! Check out the "links" section of this site for some
great reading and information.
And please, please read this article by Anne Ohman, I think you'll
really love it: http://www.bayshoreeducational.com/articleanne.html
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 8/5/06, Jennifer Long <jenjen71379@...> wrote:
about that age as well before he was talking in sentences. I "spoke" for him
for the first 3 or 4 years of his life. After I went to school he had to
learn some words but would speak in one word (and preferbly monosyllabic
ones at that) "sentences." Lots of "point and grunt." My brother still
isn't much of a talker. He talks when necessary. He's a man of few words.
When he does talk we listen. With Keon he was frustrated at not being able
to communicate his wants and needs. My brother not so. My brother was so
laid back and adaptable that if he wanted apple juice but was given orange
juice he would just drink it. Keon would spill it in a rage as I didn't
understand what it was he wanted. While I think that having him speak at a
younger age would have been wonderful, all the speech therapy in the world
wouldn't have worked any faster. He would have learned to speak when he was
developmentally ready. We can't make those synapses connect faster by going
to therapy. They are going to form at their speed.
I can't tell you the number of times that I have had friends whose
traditionally schooled children were in speech therapy and after *years* of
therapy "suddenly" it all paid off. It didn't "suddenly" pay off. The
child *finally* got to a point where they could comprehend what was going on
and most likely would have gotten there with or without therapy, but
probably with a whole let less stress, self-doubt and without feeling
labelled.
I had an uncle that I remember that as a child (we are only a few years
apart) had a horrible speech impediment. L's, R's, and F's were all
pronounced like W and S's were SH. He also did something else weird. Only
those of us that knew him well could understand him. My grandfather refused
to put him in speech therapy (basically because my grandfather didn't want
him labeled "stupid" or "special needs") Suddenly in 6th grade his speech
cleared up. Today you could never know that he had any problems speaking.
I miss my grandfather. He was a self-educated man who quit school when he
was 14 to go to work on the railroads. He would have been my biggest
supporter of unschooling. I think he could really relate to the way that I
am raising my children.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Keon didn't start speaking much until he was closer to four. My brother was
> Ren,
> I was reading the welcome message and one of the things that was posted
> was that anything you put in a post is pretty much up for discussion: I LOVE
> this! I think its great hearing different points of view. I have a good
> friend whose brother didnt speak til he was 4 and his mother never did
> speech therapy or anything like that. My point of view is that even if some
> people dont feel its necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt
> right?
about that age as well before he was talking in sentences. I "spoke" for him
for the first 3 or 4 years of his life. After I went to school he had to
learn some words but would speak in one word (and preferbly monosyllabic
ones at that) "sentences." Lots of "point and grunt." My brother still
isn't much of a talker. He talks when necessary. He's a man of few words.
When he does talk we listen. With Keon he was frustrated at not being able
to communicate his wants and needs. My brother not so. My brother was so
laid back and adaptable that if he wanted apple juice but was given orange
juice he would just drink it. Keon would spill it in a rage as I didn't
understand what it was he wanted. While I think that having him speak at a
younger age would have been wonderful, all the speech therapy in the world
wouldn't have worked any faster. He would have learned to speak when he was
developmentally ready. We can't make those synapses connect faster by going
to therapy. They are going to form at their speed.
I can't tell you the number of times that I have had friends whose
traditionally schooled children were in speech therapy and after *years* of
therapy "suddenly" it all paid off. It didn't "suddenly" pay off. The
child *finally* got to a point where they could comprehend what was going on
and most likely would have gotten there with or without therapy, but
probably with a whole let less stress, self-doubt and without feeling
labelled.
I had an uncle that I remember that as a child (we are only a few years
apart) had a horrible speech impediment. L's, R's, and F's were all
pronounced like W and S's were SH. He also did something else weird. Only
those of us that knew him well could understand him. My grandfather refused
to put him in speech therapy (basically because my grandfather didn't want
him labeled "stupid" or "special needs") Suddenly in 6th grade his speech
cleared up. Today you could never know that he had any problems speaking.
I miss my grandfather. He was a self-educated man who quit school when he
was 14 to go to work on the railroads. He would have been my biggest
supporter of unschooling. I think he could really relate to the way that I
am raising my children.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do one thing or
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 5, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its
> necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right? Thats
> how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-its
> mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age. Anyway,
> it works for us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Long
He's not being pulled out actually-he's going to be getting therapy with a small group of kids in the classroom. They do it so the kids dont feel like there's something odd about them.
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do one thing or
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do one thing or
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 5, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its
> necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right? Thats
> how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-its
> mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age. Anyway,
> it works for us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Long
and just to let you know-there is nothing wrong with my son. He's perfectly fine-he's just speech delayed. Just because some kids get pulled for therapy shouldnt mean there's something WRONG with them. Thats the kind of thinking that makes kids who are pulled out THINK something is wrong with them when there isnt. He is so young still that who in the class is even thinking there's something wrong with him? No one. They're all 3 and 4 years old.
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do one thing or
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do one thing or
another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know that how
they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point out their
differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was in
speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other kids
started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she had it
in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it for attention.
She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted to speak
for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn't
generalize well into the normal environment.
We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you do
what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very close eye
on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative things are
happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especially when
academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance all of
the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That's
when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 5, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its
> necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right? Thats
> how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-its
> mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age. Anyway,
> it works for us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
In your original post, you said he had autism?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 5, 2006, at 8:00 PM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> and just to let you know-there is nothing wrong with my son. He's
> perfectly fine-he's just speech delayed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christy Mahoney
It may seem like everyone is harping on this subject, but to most
unschoolers it is so important that our kids have ownership of their
learning. There are a lot of unschoolers who sent their children to
school before they knew about unschooling, and virtually all of them
wish they had never sent them to school. Once children get the idea
that they need someone else to teach them in order to learn, it can
be really hard for them to trust their own ideas and abilities
again.
The natural process of learning to speak or read is wonderful and
mysterious and very individual. I think that it is contradictory to
say there is nothing wrong with your son EXCEPT that he's speech
delayed. A delay implies that someone is not doing something when
he should, and we are saying that perhaps your son is learning
exactly when he should for his own unique development. There are
many many children who hardly speak at all at the age of 3 or 4 and
yet they speak perfectly well a few years later.
Your son may enjoy going to school. Lots of kids do. But there are
other ways for him to be social without the restrictions of school.
Even the most play-based schools and therapies still have
expectations, and even kids as young as 3 can sense these
expectations.
-Christy
pulled for therapy shouldnt mean there's something WRONG with them.
Thats the kind of thinking that makes kids who are pulled out THINK
something is wrong with them when there isnt. He is so young still
that who in the class is even thinking there's something wrong with
him? No one. They're all 3 and 4 years old.
unschoolers it is so important that our kids have ownership of their
learning. There are a lot of unschoolers who sent their children to
school before they knew about unschooling, and virtually all of them
wish they had never sent them to school. Once children get the idea
that they need someone else to teach them in order to learn, it can
be really hard for them to trust their own ideas and abilities
again.
The natural process of learning to speak or read is wonderful and
mysterious and very individual. I think that it is contradictory to
say there is nothing wrong with your son EXCEPT that he's speech
delayed. A delay implies that someone is not doing something when
he should, and we are saying that perhaps your son is learning
exactly when he should for his own unique development. There are
many many children who hardly speak at all at the age of 3 or 4 and
yet they speak perfectly well a few years later.
Your son may enjoy going to school. Lots of kids do. But there are
other ways for him to be social without the restrictions of school.
Even the most play-based schools and therapies still have
expectations, and even kids as young as 3 can sense these
expectations.
-Christy
> and just to let you know-there is nothing wrong with my son. He'sperfectly fine-he's just speech delayed. Just because some kids get
pulled for therapy shouldnt mean there's something WRONG with them.
Thats the kind of thinking that makes kids who are pulled out THINK
something is wrong with them when there isnt. He is so young still
that who in the class is even thinking there's something wrong with
him? No one. They're all 3 and 4 years old.
>one thing or
> Jen L.
>
> Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
> Well, I'm not going to tell you that you *have* to do
> another, but just to present another point of view, actually pull-out
> of the classroom therapy can be damaging, it lets them know thathow
> they are is wrong, and that they need fixed. It can point outtheir
> differences to their peers, who can jump on it. My daughter was inkids
> speech therapy for years, it was in kindergarden when the other
> started making fun of her for leaving the classroom. When she hadit
> in the classroom with peers, they glommed all over it forattention.
> She didn't learn as much as she did at home, being prompted tospeak
> for the things she needed. The things she learned in speech didn'tdo
> generalize well into the normal environment.
>
> We're using teach me language right now for ideas, and we've taken
> some of the sessions and just turned them into games. I mean, you
> what you need to, but I would suggest that you keep a very closeeye
> on his happiness and make sure that none of those negative thingsare
> happening. It developed very rapidly for my daughter, especiallywhen
> academic requirements came up, because it was hard to balance allof
> the emotional demands with the increasingly academic ones. That'sThats
> when she started peeling the skin off of her feet. :-(
>
> Melissa
> Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
> (3), and Avari Rose
>
> share our lives at
> http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
>
> On Aug 5, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
>
> > My point of view is that even if some people dont feel its
> > necessary, some people do think well hey, it cant hurt right?
> > how I feel. I really dont believe speech therapy is harmful-itsAnyway,
> > mostly play based and really fun at this young of an age.
> > it works for us.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jennifer Long
Yes and he's extremely high functioning. I dont usually refer to either one of them as Autistic its a term that has gotten them services. In the schools, at least for my son because my daughter just cant handle school, it has meant great placements, wonderful teachers, some really great therapists, etc... Its such a great place for him to go because he loves it so much! My kids are different. My son thrives on structure, which is sorta hard to give him all the time at home, while my daughter flies by the seat of her pants with everything-which is why I'm going to homeschool her full time next year. I can't see how sending him to a preschool for 12 hours a week will harm him in any way shape or form. They are also sending him to summer camp which he LOVES.
Please let me know if I should just go to another list? Its not as if I'm getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views are too different from everyone elses? I really would like to stay here because of my daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families all around, please let me know.
Thanks!
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
In your original post, you said he had autism?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
Please let me know if I should just go to another list? Its not as if I'm getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views are too different from everyone elses? I really would like to stay here because of my daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families all around, please let me know.
Thanks!
Jen L.
Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
In your original post, you said he had autism?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 5, 2006, at 8:00 PM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> and just to let you know-there is nothing wrong with my son. He's
> perfectly fine-he's just speech delayed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"I really would like to stay here because of my daughter-I'd love to
hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling
journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families
all around, please let me know."
It's for helping people move towards unschooling.
We aren't here to decide who should or should not be at the
list....it's up to each individual how they use this list and what
they glean from it.
But if you post about how great school is, because your child is
recieving speech therapy or other services, you're probably going to
hear quite a few opposing viewpoints! That's all.
We're hear to help people embrace unschooling, for all children. Not
pat them on the back and say "oh great, that's wonderful" when we see
potential stumbling blocks.
I hope you DO stay! And I hope you read some of the articles and links
we've saved for people. Did you get a chance to read Anne Ohman's
article yet?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling
journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families
all around, please let me know."
It's for helping people move towards unschooling.
We aren't here to decide who should or should not be at the
list....it's up to each individual how they use this list and what
they glean from it.
But if you post about how great school is, because your child is
recieving speech therapy or other services, you're probably going to
hear quite a few opposing viewpoints! That's all.
We're hear to help people embrace unschooling, for all children. Not
pat them on the back and say "oh great, that's wonderful" when we see
potential stumbling blocks.
I hope you DO stay! And I hope you read some of the articles and links
we've saved for people. Did you get a chance to read Anne Ohman's
article yet?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: jenjen71379@...
I can't see how sending him to
a preschool for 12 hours a week will harm him in any way shape or form.
-=-=-=-
He may be just fine.
But please don't assume that being in preschool is harmless!
-=-=-=-=-
Please let me know if I should just go to another list?
-=-=-=-
Nope. You're welcome here. Just realize that *you* brought up the fact
that your child is in preschool. It's up for discussion. And THAT will
be discussed *much* more passionately than that your daughter is *not*!
<g>
-=-=-=-=-
Its not as if I'm
getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views
are too
different from everyone elses?
-=-=-=-
Just depends on whether you're interested in hearing the negative
comments about school in general or your son's preschool specifically.
-=-=-=-=-
I really would like to stay here because of my
daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice
for my own
unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling
families
all around, please let me know.
-=-=-=-
Nope. we have folks with a child in school. Older children who make
that choice themsleves. Does your son have the option of saying, "No
school today, Mommy!"---that makes the difference.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: jenjen71379@...
I can't see how sending him to
a preschool for 12 hours a week will harm him in any way shape or form.
-=-=-=-
He may be just fine.
But please don't assume that being in preschool is harmless!
-=-=-=-=-
Please let me know if I should just go to another list?
-=-=-=-
Nope. You're welcome here. Just realize that *you* brought up the fact
that your child is in preschool. It's up for discussion. And THAT will
be discussed *much* more passionately than that your daughter is *not*!
<g>
-=-=-=-=-
Its not as if I'm
getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views
are too
different from everyone elses?
-=-=-=-
Just depends on whether you're interested in hearing the negative
comments about school in general or your son's preschool specifically.
-=-=-=-=-
I really would like to stay here because of my
daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice
for my own
unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling
families
all around, please let me know.
-=-=-=-
Nope. we have folks with a child in school. Older children who make
that choice themsleves. Does your son have the option of saying, "No
school today, Mommy!"---that makes the difference.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Jennifer Long
Yes I did read the article and I couldn't help but feel that in my heart, thats how I feel about my son and maybe its just all the therapy and school thats already been crammed down our throats from the second I thought there was something delayed in my daughter that just nags at me to keep trying to get help-feeling the need for some kind of acknowledgement from someone else outside of his everyday life that yes, he's making great progress. I dont know what it is. I really didnt join this list boasting about how great school is-I happened to briefly mention that my son was in preschool and everyone kind of took it from there. I really appreciate everyone's input believe me, but I still have to say that it may take ME a while to adjust to an unschooling life style. I went thru a typical school and graduated, etc... and its not until I had put my daughter into preschool (which didnt work out either) that I started seriously looking at homeschooling as an option. Its that
scared feeling of turning down therapy, possible further delays, that always kept me away from taking the plunge and living our lives the way I always thought was best. And with my son, well, he just kinda went in the same direction my daughter has gone except that he LOVES school. I've always been 110% involved in every aspect of their schooling and I have no problem whatsoever pulling him if I feel he needs to be pulled. My daughter actually was going to get speech therapy this year and I'm completely turning it down to keep her home. Of course, I'm sure none of that makes any sense to anyone here but thats how I feel.
Thank you for the article-it was really good.
Jen L.
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"I really would like to stay here because of my daughter-I'd love to
hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling
journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families
all around, please let me know."
It's for helping people move towards unschooling.
We aren't here to decide who should or should not be at the
list....it's up to each individual how they use this list and what
they glean from it.
But if you post about how great school is, because your child is
recieving speech therapy or other services, you're probably going to
hear quite a few opposing viewpoints! That's all.
We're hear to help people embrace unschooling, for all children. Not
pat them on the back and say "oh great, that's wonderful" when we see
potential stumbling blocks.
I hope you DO stay! And I hope you read some of the articles and links
we've saved for people. Did you get a chance to read Anne Ohman's
article yet?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scared feeling of turning down therapy, possible further delays, that always kept me away from taking the plunge and living our lives the way I always thought was best. And with my son, well, he just kinda went in the same direction my daughter has gone except that he LOVES school. I've always been 110% involved in every aspect of their schooling and I have no problem whatsoever pulling him if I feel he needs to be pulled. My daughter actually was going to get speech therapy this year and I'm completely turning it down to keep her home. Of course, I'm sure none of that makes any sense to anyone here but thats how I feel.
Thank you for the article-it was really good.
Jen L.
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"I really would like to stay here because of my daughter-I'd love to
hear what everyone else is up to and get advice for my own unschooling
journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling families
all around, please let me know."
It's for helping people move towards unschooling.
We aren't here to decide who should or should not be at the
list....it's up to each individual how they use this list and what
they glean from it.
But if you post about how great school is, because your child is
recieving speech therapy or other services, you're probably going to
hear quite a few opposing viewpoints! That's all.
We're hear to help people embrace unschooling, for all children. Not
pat them on the back and say "oh great, that's wonderful" when we see
potential stumbling blocks.
I hope you DO stay! And I hope you read some of the articles and links
we've saved for people. Did you get a chance to read Anne Ohman's
article yet?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Long
Kelly,
I never assume anything :-) thanks for your input. Actually, yes, sometimes my son shakes his head furiously screaming "No cool momp!" (No school mom) and I keep him home. But there are times when he gets dressed himself, starts packing his lunchbox and says "cool momp" all ready to go. So, he does have a choice and its a free preschool-why not? Its there as an option. I absolutely am aware that anything is up for discussion and thats a big reason why I joined. I like to hear other peoples opinions.
Bring em on!! :-)
Have a good one,
Jen L.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: jenjen71379@...
I can't see how sending him to
a preschool for 12 hours a week will harm him in any way shape or form.
-=-=-=-
He may be just fine.
But please don't assume that being in preschool is harmless!
-=-=-=-=-
Please let me know if I should just go to another list?
-=-=-=-
Nope. You're welcome here. Just realize that *you* brought up the fact
that your child is in preschool. It's up for discussion. And THAT will
be discussed *much* more passionately than that your daughter is *not*!
<g>
-=-=-=-=-
Its not as if I'm
getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views
are too
different from everyone elses?
-=-=-=-
Just depends on whether you're interested in hearing the negative
comments about school in general or your son's preschool specifically.
-=-=-=-=-
I really would like to stay here because of my
daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice
for my own
unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling
families
all around, please let me know.
-=-=-=-
Nope. we have folks with a child in school. Older children who make
that choice themsleves. Does your son have the option of saying, "No
school today, Mommy!"---that makes the difference.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
__________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I never assume anything :-) thanks for your input. Actually, yes, sometimes my son shakes his head furiously screaming "No cool momp!" (No school mom) and I keep him home. But there are times when he gets dressed himself, starts packing his lunchbox and says "cool momp" all ready to go. So, he does have a choice and its a free preschool-why not? Its there as an option. I absolutely am aware that anything is up for discussion and thats a big reason why I joined. I like to hear other peoples opinions.
Bring em on!! :-)
Have a good one,
Jen L.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: jenjen71379@...
I can't see how sending him to
a preschool for 12 hours a week will harm him in any way shape or form.
-=-=-=-
He may be just fine.
But please don't assume that being in preschool is harmless!
-=-=-=-=-
Please let me know if I should just go to another list?
-=-=-=-
Nope. You're welcome here. Just realize that *you* brought up the fact
that your child is in preschool. It's up for discussion. And THAT will
be discussed *much* more passionately than that your daughter is *not*!
<g>
-=-=-=-=-
Its not as if I'm
getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe my views
are too
different from everyone elses?
-=-=-=-
Just depends on whether you're interested in hearing the negative
comments about school in general or your son's preschool specifically.
-=-=-=-=-
I really would like to stay here because of my
daughter-I'd love to hear what everyone else is up to and get advice
for my own
unschooling journey! If this is a list thats strictly for unschooling
families
all around, please let me know.
-=-=-=-
Nope. we have folks with a child in school. Older children who make
that choice themsleves. Does your son have the option of saying, "No
school today, Mommy!"---that makes the difference.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
__________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"but I still have to
say that it may take ME a while to adjust to an unschooling life style. "
That's very normal!
Kids are natural born learners...those of us with schooled minds find
it a lot harder to TRUST that process again. I wish I had a magic pill
I could give you, that would guarantee a great outcome for both your
children. I don't have one. But unschooling is the closest thing to a
magic pill that I've found!!
Life is unsure. No matter what we do, or what choices we make, there
are no guarantees of anything. I believe that unschooling is the best
way to give my children the gift of TRUST. The ability to trust
oneself is such an awesome tool in life. A tool that school often
strips from people.
There is no "behind" or "ahead" with unschooling...your children are
simply being who-they-are at this very moment. Perfect and whole. No
need to compare to other children or fret about development. Even if
they have issues that make certain things in life harder to navigate,
we can embrace ALL of that.
I think the longer you travel this path, the more you read and learn
about natural learning, the easier it will be to trust that you don't
need that outside reassurance. Seeing your children's happy faces will
be enough to tell you that learning is happening each and every day
that they are alive!:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
say that it may take ME a while to adjust to an unschooling life style. "
That's very normal!
Kids are natural born learners...those of us with schooled minds find
it a lot harder to TRUST that process again. I wish I had a magic pill
I could give you, that would guarantee a great outcome for both your
children. I don't have one. But unschooling is the closest thing to a
magic pill that I've found!!
Life is unsure. No matter what we do, or what choices we make, there
are no guarantees of anything. I believe that unschooling is the best
way to give my children the gift of TRUST. The ability to trust
oneself is such an awesome tool in life. A tool that school often
strips from people.
There is no "behind" or "ahead" with unschooling...your children are
simply being who-they-are at this very moment. Perfect and whole. No
need to compare to other children or fret about development. Even if
they have issues that make certain things in life harder to navigate,
we can embrace ALL of that.
I think the longer you travel this path, the more you read and learn
about natural learning, the easier it will be to trust that you don't
need that outside reassurance. Seeing your children's happy faces will
be enough to tell you that learning is happening each and every day
that they are alive!:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Melissa
Jen,
I just wanted to second what Ren said, I'm not going to judge YOU on
what you do, everybody makes their own choices. But this is a
discussion list, which means we discuss anything posted. Discussions
aren't a reflection of YOU, per se, so I don't want you to take
anything personally. It seems like once or twice a week, someone new
gets their feelings hurt because the list says something negative
about what was posted and they take it as a personal affront. People
will point out things to you, because we only know what you write.
It's very literal, we have no body language cues, we can't intuit
what you mean, etc. That's why I was confused on the whole "My son
has autism/there's nothing wrong with my son".
See, when you introduced as having children with autism, I assumed
(poor assumption on my part, sorry) that if you were introducing them
as autistic that it must be severe enough affect lifestyle, or else
why would you introduce them as autistic to a bunch of strangers? A
lot of people join and say their kid has this or that, as a way to
excuse away why they *have* to do this school, or that therapy, or
some kind of training. I just wanted it out on the table that there
are already people here who radically unschool their children with
severe disabilities, and it works.
My daughter had a great program too...she loved school! Preschool for
disabled kids is easy, laid-back and usually little more than
babysitting (of course, there are exceptions...I've heard gramercy
school in NY is great). What happens when they get older is that they
are either put into a program for severely disabled, and are
basically babysat, or they are mainstreamed. I have seen it over and
over again (I'm a parent advocate for the autism society) that the
kids have these ideals of how school should be, and then suddenly the
rules change. Someone who needs structure has a hard time dealing
with change!! If it works out differently than that, it's because the
parents have advocated and fought for the modifications they need,
and actually wind up doing most of the work ensuring that the schools
and teachers follow the IEP, because they get sneaky when it gets
hard (I'm not bitter, honest ;-) I'm thankful things went wrong so
soon after regular ed started for Bre, it was the kick in the pants
we needed)
I think basically what I said in my first email, was to watch him
carefully for signs of discontent. If he's like my Josh, he seems
happy because it's what he knows. He likes the structure....and he
accepted that school is what it is...even when people were laughing
at him (yes, in kindergarden). Yes, preschoolers are vicious,
especially in large, barely managed groups. Both my middle girls went
to regular preK, and I was blown away by how knowledgeable they are.
Josh was out of school for 18 months before he said that he didn't
know back then that the way he felt was ambivalent. He liked the
school because it was predictable, he liked it because they told him
constantly how 'good' he was and how smart he was. He had no
intrinsic value of self.
So when I say anything, it's because I worry about any kid sent to
school, but especially because I've been where you are now....
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
I just wanted to second what Ren said, I'm not going to judge YOU on
what you do, everybody makes their own choices. But this is a
discussion list, which means we discuss anything posted. Discussions
aren't a reflection of YOU, per se, so I don't want you to take
anything personally. It seems like once or twice a week, someone new
gets their feelings hurt because the list says something negative
about what was posted and they take it as a personal affront. People
will point out things to you, because we only know what you write.
It's very literal, we have no body language cues, we can't intuit
what you mean, etc. That's why I was confused on the whole "My son
has autism/there's nothing wrong with my son".
See, when you introduced as having children with autism, I assumed
(poor assumption on my part, sorry) that if you were introducing them
as autistic that it must be severe enough affect lifestyle, or else
why would you introduce them as autistic to a bunch of strangers? A
lot of people join and say their kid has this or that, as a way to
excuse away why they *have* to do this school, or that therapy, or
some kind of training. I just wanted it out on the table that there
are already people here who radically unschool their children with
severe disabilities, and it works.
My daughter had a great program too...she loved school! Preschool for
disabled kids is easy, laid-back and usually little more than
babysitting (of course, there are exceptions...I've heard gramercy
school in NY is great). What happens when they get older is that they
are either put into a program for severely disabled, and are
basically babysat, or they are mainstreamed. I have seen it over and
over again (I'm a parent advocate for the autism society) that the
kids have these ideals of how school should be, and then suddenly the
rules change. Someone who needs structure has a hard time dealing
with change!! If it works out differently than that, it's because the
parents have advocated and fought for the modifications they need,
and actually wind up doing most of the work ensuring that the schools
and teachers follow the IEP, because they get sneaky when it gets
hard (I'm not bitter, honest ;-) I'm thankful things went wrong so
soon after regular ed started for Bre, it was the kick in the pants
we needed)
I think basically what I said in my first email, was to watch him
carefully for signs of discontent. If he's like my Josh, he seems
happy because it's what he knows. He likes the structure....and he
accepted that school is what it is...even when people were laughing
at him (yes, in kindergarden). Yes, preschoolers are vicious,
especially in large, barely managed groups. Both my middle girls went
to regular preK, and I was blown away by how knowledgeable they are.
Josh was out of school for 18 months before he said that he didn't
know back then that the way he felt was ambivalent. He liked the
school because it was predictable, he liked it because they told him
constantly how 'good' he was and how smart he was. He had no
intrinsic value of self.
So when I say anything, it's because I worry about any kid sent to
school, but especially because I've been where you are now....
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Aug 6, 2006, at 6:29 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
> Yes and he's extremely high functioning. I dont usually refer to
> either one of them as Autistic its a term that has gotten them
> services. In the schools, at least for my son because my daughter
> just cant handle school, it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 8/6/06, Jennifer Long <jenjen71379@...> wrote:
what? Delayed to some arbitrary guideline that says what children "should"
be doing by a certain age? Those guidelines work well for children who are
in school and for a school that needs to run smoothly. The school system
hasn't figured out how to educate 30 children who may not all be on the same
level. So they have classifications that tell parents where children should
be by a certain age in order to fit in with the rest of the class or
school. Here's an even scary thing: the charts that doctors and "child
experts" use for developmental advances are also based on how to best get a
child ready for school. It's like grades and grade levels. They are
totally irrelevant to an unschooling lifestyle. They are a means for a
larger "machine" to operate smoothly. They have nothing to do really with a
child's ability or understanding.
You say he is making advances and I ask you, "Advances to what?" As you
learn more about unschooling you will find that you need to deschool
yourself. Stop thinking in terms of grades, grade levels, developmental
advancements. Through mindful parenting, living joyfully and being where
your child needs to be you will see your child grow and expand and become
the person that is best him. By stopping the schooling earlier it will help
you get to joyful living sooner and seeing how unschooling can enrich your
lives more fully! It can be a scary step when you have a child whose needs
are different from "normal" but later you will ask yourself why you ever
feared taking that step and why you didn't embrace this change sooner!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Please know that I am saying this gently and with compassion. Delayed to
> Its that
> scared feeling of turning down therapy, possible further delays, that
> always kept me away from taking the plunge and living our lives the way I
> always thought was best.
what? Delayed to some arbitrary guideline that says what children "should"
be doing by a certain age? Those guidelines work well for children who are
in school and for a school that needs to run smoothly. The school system
hasn't figured out how to educate 30 children who may not all be on the same
level. So they have classifications that tell parents where children should
be by a certain age in order to fit in with the rest of the class or
school. Here's an even scary thing: the charts that doctors and "child
experts" use for developmental advances are also based on how to best get a
child ready for school. It's like grades and grade levels. They are
totally irrelevant to an unschooling lifestyle. They are a means for a
larger "machine" to operate smoothly. They have nothing to do really with a
child's ability or understanding.
You say he is making advances and I ask you, "Advances to what?" As you
learn more about unschooling you will find that you need to deschool
yourself. Stop thinking in terms of grades, grade levels, developmental
advancements. Through mindful parenting, living joyfully and being where
your child needs to be you will see your child grow and expand and become
the person that is best him. By stopping the schooling earlier it will help
you get to joyful living sooner and seeing how unschooling can enrich your
lives more fully! It can be a scary step when you have a child whose needs
are different from "normal" but later you will ask yourself why you ever
feared taking that step and why you didn't embrace this change sooner!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tonya Matthews
Hi Jennifer,
I'm jumping in on this topic mainly because I grew up in Cranston RI
(22 yrs) and your name looks SO familiar!! *LOL* I called my sister
but she's away. "Jennifer Long, Jennifer Long.. don't we know that
girl??"
You are much younger than I am (I'm 35) but I wonder... My name was
Tonya Bass back then and my sister's name is Liza. Ring a bell??
That'd be too cool.
I live in Auburn MA now with my 3 children and we started
homeschooling a year ago. Unschooling kinda fell into our lap as a
very sensicle way of going about things.
Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in
laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
don't know how to read" Well, the shoe tying is true but I told
him, "Uh, you can LEARN if you want to" As far as the math and
reading, I gave him an example of "I have 6 lollipops. How many do
you and your brother and sister get?" and he knew and I told
him "That's math!" And then, when he's playing games on the
computer/game cube, he can read "Game over", "Loading", etc etc!
*LOL* So, what I'm getting at is Rory only attended preschool for
two years (of which he had a BLAST!) and half day K for a year and
he's ALREADY thinking that you can't learn unless you are in school
or sitting with workbooks. I really didn't think he'd have that
notion. But then, when my MIL ran up one side of my husband and down
another regarding her worry and concern about the kids' education..
maybe now I know why he's so fretful himself.
I'll admit, I'm not totally a radical unschooler. I'm slowly
morphing and letting to of my overly controlling ways and
understanding and growing and loving each day. Unschooling is truly
fabulous and a very fun journey and just a super way to Be with my
kids.
I am also a firm believer in doing what works for you. I just
wanted, mainly, to say hi and see if you recognized my name too!
Warm regards,
Tonya
Proud mama to
Christian/11
Rory/7
Alannah/3
I'm jumping in on this topic mainly because I grew up in Cranston RI
(22 yrs) and your name looks SO familiar!! *LOL* I called my sister
but she's away. "Jennifer Long, Jennifer Long.. don't we know that
girl??"
You are much younger than I am (I'm 35) but I wonder... My name was
Tonya Bass back then and my sister's name is Liza. Ring a bell??
That'd be too cool.
I live in Auburn MA now with my 3 children and we started
homeschooling a year ago. Unschooling kinda fell into our lap as a
very sensicle way of going about things.
Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in
laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
don't know how to read" Well, the shoe tying is true but I told
him, "Uh, you can LEARN if you want to" As far as the math and
reading, I gave him an example of "I have 6 lollipops. How many do
you and your brother and sister get?" and he knew and I told
him "That's math!" And then, when he's playing games on the
computer/game cube, he can read "Game over", "Loading", etc etc!
*LOL* So, what I'm getting at is Rory only attended preschool for
two years (of which he had a BLAST!) and half day K for a year and
he's ALREADY thinking that you can't learn unless you are in school
or sitting with workbooks. I really didn't think he'd have that
notion. But then, when my MIL ran up one side of my husband and down
another regarding her worry and concern about the kids' education..
maybe now I know why he's so fretful himself.
I'll admit, I'm not totally a radical unschooler. I'm slowly
morphing and letting to of my overly controlling ways and
understanding and growing and loving each day. Unschooling is truly
fabulous and a very fun journey and just a super way to Be with my
kids.
I am also a firm believer in doing what works for you. I just
wanted, mainly, to say hi and see if you recognized my name too!
Warm regards,
Tonya
Proud mama to
Christian/11
Rory/7
Alannah/3
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 6, 2006, at 7:29 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
you personally. No one's making judgments on you but people *are*
examining the ideas you're sending to the list.
People are accepted wherever they are on the spectrum. But *ideas*
that don't help people move closer to unschooling will be discussed.
No one will judge *you* for sending your son to school. But if you
post about the idea, people will point out -- not necessarily to you
but to all those who are reading -- that there are better options for
moving towards unschooling, if that make sense.
I think most people don't even realize that lists can be for
something other than support so when their ideas get questioned on a
discussion list it feels like rejection. But it isn't. It's just that
discussion lists work differently than support lists. It's about
discussing ideas that will help unschooling.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Please let me know if I should just go to another list? Its not asI think it helps to see the discussion as about ideas and not about
> if I'm getting upset about the discussion here-its just that maybe
> my views are too different from everyone elses?
you personally. No one's making judgments on you but people *are*
examining the ideas you're sending to the list.
People are accepted wherever they are on the spectrum. But *ideas*
that don't help people move closer to unschooling will be discussed.
No one will judge *you* for sending your son to school. But if you
post about the idea, people will point out -- not necessarily to you
but to all those who are reading -- that there are better options for
moving towards unschooling, if that make sense.
I think most people don't even realize that lists can be for
something other than support so when their ideas get questioned on a
discussion list it feels like rejection. But it isn't. It's just that
discussion lists work differently than support lists. It's about
discussing ideas that will help unschooling.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
Oops, forgot to mention there's a New England Unschoolers Group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewEnglandUnschooling/
Someone just posted this and should be at the top of the archives:
SOS inclusive meet & greet in RI aug 10
August 10, 11:00 am til whenever, at Pulaski State Park in Glocester.
Address for mapping: Pulaski Road, Glocester, RI
BYO picnic, swim in the fresh water pond, play field games, build sand
castles.
All homeschoolers are welcome: any age, newbies, veterans, all faiths,
colors, philosophies, etc.
You can "officially" join SOS that day if you want - for $10 per
family receive a member card - or not.
our website: http://www.soshomeskoolri.org
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewEnglandUnschooling/
Someone just posted this and should be at the top of the archives:
SOS inclusive meet & greet in RI aug 10
August 10, 11:00 am til whenever, at Pulaski State Park in Glocester.
Address for mapping: Pulaski Road, Glocester, RI
BYO picnic, swim in the fresh water pond, play field games, build sand
castles.
All homeschoolers are welcome: any age, newbies, veterans, all faiths,
colors, philosophies, etc.
You can "officially" join SOS that day if you want - for $10 per
family receive a member card - or not.
our website: http://www.soshomeskoolri.org
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Long
Tonya,
No I dont know your name-that would've been super cool if I did! :-( My maiden name is Palazzo-I've been a Long for almost 8 years now though. I went to Cranston East-graduated in 97. Where in Cranston did you grow up?
Finally, someone who doesnt think I'm out of my mind for sending my son to prek! I'm positive 100% that I will bring my son home too before he hits mandatory school age but I just want a year or so to really get my daughter going ya know?
I havent yet told anyone about our homeschooling, well, except my mom, brother and best friend. Everyone else I can think of will think I'm a loony tune. I wrote my letter of intent today and will be mailing it tommorow.
So how far is Auburn? Maybe we could meet up since the kids are the same age!:-)
Jen L.
Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...> wrote:
Hi Jennifer,
I'm jumping in on this topic mainly because I grew up in Cranston RI
(22 yrs) and your name looks SO familiar!! *LOL* I called my sister
but she's away. "Jennifer Long, Jennifer Long.. don't we know that
girl??"
You are much younger than I am (I'm 35) but I wonder... My name was
Tonya Bass back then and my sister's name is Liza. Ring a bell??
That'd be too cool.
I live in Auburn MA now with my 3 children and we started
homeschooling a year ago. Unschooling kinda fell into our lap as a
very sensicle way of going about things.
Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in
laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
don't know how to read" Well, the shoe tying is true but I told
him, "Uh, you can LEARN if you want to" As far as the math and
reading, I gave him an example of "I have 6 lollipops. How many do
you and your brother and sister get?" and he knew and I told
him "That's math!" And then, when he's playing games on the
computer/game cube, he can read "Game over", "Loading", etc etc!
*LOL* So, what I'm getting at is Rory only attended preschool for
two years (of which he had a BLAST!) and half day K for a year and
he's ALREADY thinking that you can't learn unless you are in school
or sitting with workbooks. I really didn't think he'd have that
notion. But then, when my MIL ran up one side of my husband and down
another regarding her worry and concern about the kids' education..
maybe now I know why he's so fretful himself.
I'll admit, I'm not totally a radical unschooler. I'm slowly
morphing and letting to of my overly controlling ways and
understanding and growing and loving each day. Unschooling is truly
fabulous and a very fun journey and just a super way to Be with my
kids.
I am also a firm believer in doing what works for you. I just
wanted, mainly, to say hi and see if you recognized my name too!
Warm regards,
Tonya
Proud mama to
Christian/11
Rory/7
Alannah/3
---------------------------------
Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No I dont know your name-that would've been super cool if I did! :-( My maiden name is Palazzo-I've been a Long for almost 8 years now though. I went to Cranston East-graduated in 97. Where in Cranston did you grow up?
Finally, someone who doesnt think I'm out of my mind for sending my son to prek! I'm positive 100% that I will bring my son home too before he hits mandatory school age but I just want a year or so to really get my daughter going ya know?
I havent yet told anyone about our homeschooling, well, except my mom, brother and best friend. Everyone else I can think of will think I'm a loony tune. I wrote my letter of intent today and will be mailing it tommorow.
So how far is Auburn? Maybe we could meet up since the kids are the same age!:-)
Jen L.
Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...> wrote:
Hi Jennifer,
I'm jumping in on this topic mainly because I grew up in Cranston RI
(22 yrs) and your name looks SO familiar!! *LOL* I called my sister
but she's away. "Jennifer Long, Jennifer Long.. don't we know that
girl??"
You are much younger than I am (I'm 35) but I wonder... My name was
Tonya Bass back then and my sister's name is Liza. Ring a bell??
That'd be too cool.
I live in Auburn MA now with my 3 children and we started
homeschooling a year ago. Unschooling kinda fell into our lap as a
very sensicle way of going about things.
Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in
laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
don't know how to read" Well, the shoe tying is true but I told
him, "Uh, you can LEARN if you want to" As far as the math and
reading, I gave him an example of "I have 6 lollipops. How many do
you and your brother and sister get?" and he knew and I told
him "That's math!" And then, when he's playing games on the
computer/game cube, he can read "Game over", "Loading", etc etc!
*LOL* So, what I'm getting at is Rory only attended preschool for
two years (of which he had a BLAST!) and half day K for a year and
he's ALREADY thinking that you can't learn unless you are in school
or sitting with workbooks. I really didn't think he'd have that
notion. But then, when my MIL ran up one side of my husband and down
another regarding her worry and concern about the kids' education..
maybe now I know why he's so fretful himself.
I'll admit, I'm not totally a radical unschooler. I'm slowly
morphing and letting to of my overly controlling ways and
understanding and growing and loving each day. Unschooling is truly
fabulous and a very fun journey and just a super way to Be with my
kids.
I am also a firm believer in doing what works for you. I just
wanted, mainly, to say hi and see if you recognized my name too!
Warm regards,
Tonya
Proud mama to
Christian/11
Rory/7
Alannah/3
---------------------------------
Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 8/6/06, Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...> wrote:
though, this whole discussion reminded me of an episode of Inside the
Actor's Studio that I saw recently with Michael J. Fox. He was talking
about his education and he said he never had any patience for math. He said
(paraphrased), "Two and two is always four. What good is that? No matter
if you do it or I do it or someone else does it, two and two will always be
four." I thought about how true that was. Math is (mostly) finite in the
way it operates. Whether you learn 2+2=4 when you are 4 or 40 it is always
going to be the same. So why not learn it when you need it.
And it may be important to remind your son that he *is* doing math all the
time. When he helps you in the kitchen he is doing math. When he is
counting the blocks or red lights until you get home he is doing math. When
he is keeping score on a game and needing to collect x-number of points to
get "whatever prize" he is doing math. You can't escape from math! It's
everywhere you look. Just because he can't do *arithmatic* doesn't mean he
doesn't understand math. It's ok to tell him that.
Sounds like you will be doing some remedial de-schooling after this recent
visit. I've BTDT myself with my family. Fortunately now it seems easier as
the kids will just ask bluntly, "Is there any reason why I should read
Shakespeare?"
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Who needs to learn to tie shoes when there are Crocs? :-D Seriously,
>
> Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
> he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in
> laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
> must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
> know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
> don't know how to read"
though, this whole discussion reminded me of an episode of Inside the
Actor's Studio that I saw recently with Michael J. Fox. He was talking
about his education and he said he never had any patience for math. He said
(paraphrased), "Two and two is always four. What good is that? No matter
if you do it or I do it or someone else does it, two and two will always be
four." I thought about how true that was. Math is (mostly) finite in the
way it operates. Whether you learn 2+2=4 when you are 4 or 40 it is always
going to be the same. So why not learn it when you need it.
And it may be important to remind your son that he *is* doing math all the
time. When he helps you in the kitchen he is doing math. When he is
counting the blocks or red lights until you get home he is doing math. When
he is keeping score on a game and needing to collect x-number of points to
get "whatever prize" he is doing math. You can't escape from math! It's
everywhere you look. Just because he can't do *arithmatic* doesn't mean he
doesn't understand math. It's ok to tell him that.
Sounds like you will be doing some remedial de-schooling after this recent
visit. I've BTDT myself with my family. Fortunately now it seems easier as
the kids will just ask bluntly, "Is there any reason why I should read
Shakespeare?"
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Aug 6, 2006, at 6:57 AM, Jennifer Long wrote:
Aspergers - was a radically unschooled kid from the beginning and he
is 21 or so, right now.
The book sounds like it is about ADD - but that's just the title the
publishes insisted on - bigger market.
Homeschooling the Child with Add (or Other Special Needs)
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yes I did read the article and I couldn't help but feel that in myYou might enjoy a book by unschooling mom Lenore Hayes. Her son has
> heart, thats how I feel about my son and maybe its just all the
> therapy and school thats already been crammed down our throats from
> the second I thought there was something delayed in my daughter
> that just nags at me to keep trying to get help-feeling the need
> for some kind of acknowledgement from someone else outside of his
> everyday life that yes, he's making great progress. I dont know
> what it is. I really didnt join this list boasting about how great
> school is-I happened to briefly mention that my son was in
> preschool and everyone kind of took it from there.
Aspergers - was a radically unschooled kid from the beginning and he
is 21 or so, right now.
The book sounds like it is about ADD - but that's just the title the
publishes insisted on - bigger market.
Homeschooling the Child with Add (or Other Special Needs)
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: jenjen71379@...
Finally, someone who doesnt think I'm out of my mind for sending my
son to
prek! I'm positive 100% that I will bring my son home too before he
hits
mandatory school age but I just want a year or so to really get my
daughter
going ya know?
-=-=-=-=-
I've never met an unschooler who, after really getting it, says, "I
wish I'd kept my child in school longer" or "I'm glad I sent him to
school." Never.
Cameron (now 18) went to school from pre-K through sixth grade. *He* is
glad he went because he made three really good friends. I *know* the
damage it did. Well, *he* does too, but he thinks Noah and Michael and
Matt were worth it. <g> But the damage was hard to undo---not really
undo, but heal from. It took a long, long time. He still has scars
(figuratively! <g>).
*I* didn't think I was out of my mind at the time. I thought I was
doing the absolute BEST thing I could. Private college prep. Top school
in the state. Top ten in the SE. I would have thought someone who told
me so was crazy as a loon!
We're just warning you ahead of time! <G>
Let us know in a year if you still think we are wrong. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: jenjen71379@...
Finally, someone who doesnt think I'm out of my mind for sending my
son to
prek! I'm positive 100% that I will bring my son home too before he
hits
mandatory school age but I just want a year or so to really get my
daughter
going ya know?
-=-=-=-=-
I've never met an unschooler who, after really getting it, says, "I
wish I'd kept my child in school longer" or "I'm glad I sent him to
school." Never.
Cameron (now 18) went to school from pre-K through sixth grade. *He* is
glad he went because he made three really good friends. I *know* the
damage it did. Well, *he* does too, but he thinks Noah and Michael and
Matt were worth it. <g> But the damage was hard to undo---not really
undo, but heal from. It took a long, long time. He still has scars
(figuratively! <g>).
*I* didn't think I was out of my mind at the time. I thought I was
doing the absolute BEST thing I could. Private college prep. Top school
in the state. Top ten in the SE. I would have thought someone who told
me so was crazy as a loon!
We're just warning you ahead of time! <G>
Let us know in a year if you still think we are wrong. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Ren Allen
"Finally, someone who doesnt think I'm out of my mind for sending my
son to prek! "
HA! Just because I'm giving you food for thought, doesn't mean I think
you're out of your mind.
Otherwise, I'd be certifiable.....well, that's still questionable.;)
The point is, nobody thinks your nuts! We've just BTDT and want to
give folks the heads-up about the damage it can cause even when it all
seems innocent enough. My oldest went to pre-k and kindergarten, he
still remembers a lot of unhappy things from Kindergarten!!
Unbelievable to me, because my K year was very pleasant and happy.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
son to prek! "
HA! Just because I'm giving you food for thought, doesn't mean I think
you're out of your mind.
Otherwise, I'd be certifiable.....well, that's still questionable.;)
The point is, nobody thinks your nuts! We've just BTDT and want to
give folks the heads-up about the damage it can cause even when it all
seems innocent enough. My oldest went to pre-k and kindergarten, he
still remembers a lot of unhappy things from Kindergarten!!
Unbelievable to me, because my K year was very pleasant and happy.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
Which brings me to my second child, Rory/7, who is convinced
When my kids are upset that they don't know something, I remind them of
something difficult that they learned and say something like "remember when
worked so hard to learn to ride a bike? when your brain was ready, you could do
it! Tying shoes is just like that, your brain will be ready and you'll
practice and practice and then you'll do it!" Someone gave me that advise once, and
it really helps my kids smooth over those feelings.
As for math and the other comments being made, somewhere on my unschooling
journey I learned that math is nothing more than permanence, pattern and
predictability and the language (symbols) to discuss these concepts.
My son can easily understand the concepts, but is unable to speak the
language well. Once we go into the land of symbols, it falls apart. Anytime your
brain engages the "three p's", you are doing math and that is probably most
of the time. Now, speaking the language is a different thing entirely, some
people catch on easily and for some people it takes longer.
Which brings me to my next point. On another list, we discuss that some
people are visual/spatial or right brain learners. This learning style tends to
understand the whole concept long before the individual parts. Would your
son benefit by you telling him that his brain will understand math (and that
is very cool!) before his brain will want to *do* math? (or some variation of
that?).
My doctor recently tried to tell me that my son might have mental
retardation because he couldn't do first grade math. I said "well, he CAN do first
grade math, but not written problems....you are asking him the wrong questions".
Of course, that made no impact on the doctor, but I kept thinking if my
unschooling friends were around they would totally get it!! I wish I could take
an unschooling posse with me <g> (a new show? Unschooling Entourage!).
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> he's 'not doing anything'. Both my boys had vacations with my in******
> laws (one at a time) and my typically VERY non confrontational MIL
> must have fed him some things because now he's saying "I dont even
> know math!" "I'm 7 and don't know how to tie my shoes!" "I'm 7 and I
> don't know how to read"
When my kids are upset that they don't know something, I remind them of
something difficult that they learned and say something like "remember when
worked so hard to learn to ride a bike? when your brain was ready, you could do
it! Tying shoes is just like that, your brain will be ready and you'll
practice and practice and then you'll do it!" Someone gave me that advise once, and
it really helps my kids smooth over those feelings.
As for math and the other comments being made, somewhere on my unschooling
journey I learned that math is nothing more than permanence, pattern and
predictability and the language (symbols) to discuss these concepts.
My son can easily understand the concepts, but is unable to speak the
language well. Once we go into the land of symbols, it falls apart. Anytime your
brain engages the "three p's", you are doing math and that is probably most
of the time. Now, speaking the language is a different thing entirely, some
people catch on easily and for some people it takes longer.
Which brings me to my next point. On another list, we discuss that some
people are visual/spatial or right brain learners. This learning style tends to
understand the whole concept long before the individual parts. Would your
son benefit by you telling him that his brain will understand math (and that
is very cool!) before his brain will want to *do* math? (or some variation of
that?).
My doctor recently tried to tell me that my son might have mental
retardation because he couldn't do first grade math. I said "well, he CAN do first
grade math, but not written problems....you are asking him the wrong questions".
Of course, that made no impact on the doctor, but I kept thinking if my
unschooling friends were around they would totally get it!! I wish I could take
an unschooling posse with me <g> (a new show? Unschooling Entourage!).
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]