Amy Mason

Please don't kick me off this list for asking too many questions but I
am desperately seeking advice from you seasoned pros that hopefully I
will become one day.

I need advice on how I should have better responded to a situation that
occurred today. We frequent the library quite often, one of several
actually. Our only problems arise, usually, when one of my crew needs
the bathroom. Hauling myself and four kids into the bathroom, away from
the computer games they were playing or books they were looking at,
usually results in trouble. Today, my 2 1/2 year old dd was making a
noise, over and over again which seemed to reverberate louder and louder
in the room (because she likes the echo) and my 5 year old dd (who loves
to play the part of a parent correcting the younger one) was saying
"stop it" over and over and louder and louder to where she inevitably
begins to cry. Neither one could even hear me ask them to please stop
making the noise. How do you take the time, breath, and ask yourself
how to respond to this when the behavior at the moment is like an out of
control geyser?

Thanks again,
Amy in WV

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 8/3/06, Amy Mason <doodlemakers@...> wrote:
>
> Please don't kick me off this list for asking too many questions but I
> am desperately seeking advice from you seasoned pros that hopefully I
> will become one day.


Hey, that's what this list is all about. Helping people live a more free
and joyful life through unschooling :)

I need advice on how I should have better responded to a situation that
> occurred today. We frequent the library quite often, one of several
> actually. Our only problems arise, usually, when one of my crew needs
> the bathroom. Hauling myself and four kids into the bathroom, away from
> the computer games they were playing or books they were looking at,
> usually results in trouble.



How old are your kids? Are they old enough that you could easily leave them
momentarily to take another to the bathroom? I miss "my library" in a city
I used to live in. There was a set of bathrooms right in the children's
area. Whoever planned the children's area (with their low shelves, small
computer desks, plenty of room, lounging pillows and ledges and a bathroom
right there) is a genius! Do you go at times where your kids either are
interacting with other kids or are the only ones there?

Today, my 2 1/2 year old dd was making a
> noise, over and over again which seemed to reverberate louder and louder
> in the room (because she likes the echo) and my 5 year old dd (who loves
> to play the part of a parent correcting the younger one) was saying
> "stop it" over and over and louder and louder to where she inevitably
> begins to cry.


Could you have physically separated them? One key is that I would look for
ways to circumvent this kind of situation from happening. What is it that
triggers this scenario and how can you work to keep that from happening?
Could you wonder the stacks with your younger child or engage her in a book
or puzzle or other activity? Could you possibly take your older chldren to
the library at a time when you can leave the younger ones at home? I know
that before we got our beautiful aforementioned library, that library day
was a huge boredom day for Keon. He had no interest in lounging at the
library and reading books. He would go in, grab a Donald Crews book (we
read them all - several times) and was ready to leave. Not what the girls
wanted to do. They wanted to spend time browsing, reading, talking to the
librarians, playing on the computers, etc. So I got to a point where I
would take them after their dad got home or on the weekends "the guys" would
head to the model train store and we would head to the library.

Think NOW about ways that you could better have handled the situation. How
you could have prevented the situation to begin with. It also might help to
explain to your 5yo that she doesn't need to parent your toddler and that
you can do that, but for her to tell you when her sister is bothering her
and ask for your help in giving her the peaceful surroundings that she is
desiring.







--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----

Please don't kick me off this list for asking too many questions but
I
am desperately seeking advice from you seasoned pros that hopefully I
will become one day.

-=-=-=-

Asking questions doesn't bother us at all. It's arguing that there's no
way our advice will ever work that pisses me off.

And none of us are "pros"---just maybe more experienced and passionate
about unschooling.

-=-=-=-=-

I need advice on how I should have better responded to a situation that
occurred today. We frequent the library quite often, one of several
actually. Our only problems arise, usually, when one of my crew needs
the bathroom. Hauling myself and four kids into the bathroom, away
from
the computer games they were playing or books they were looking at,
usually results in trouble. Today, my 2 1/2 year old dd was making a
noise, over and over again which seemed to reverberate louder and
louder
in the room (because she likes the echo) and my 5 year old dd (who
loves
to play the part of a parent correcting the younger one) was saying
"stop it" over and over and louder and louder to where she inevitably
begins to cry. Neither one could even hear me ask them to please stop
making the noise. How do you take the time, breath, and ask yourself
how to respond to this when the behavior at the moment is like an out
of
control geyser?

-=-=-=-=-


You're waiting until the situation is at a "ten" before you respond.
Cut it off at the pass! Stop the behavior at the "one"---if you know
what's going to happen, on the *way* to the bathroom remind the five
year old that *you* are the mom and don't need her input with the
toddler. Remind the toddler that the library is a quiet place. OR, if
the bathroom is empty---you can ALL sing a song and listen to the
echoes.

But things shouldn't get to the point of the out of control geyser.
Stop it waaaay before that. Redirect. Give them gum just before going
in (chewing mouths have a harder time making noise), sing a song, ask
the five year old how many tiles she can count, keep them busy! Waiting
until things are already out of control won't do anything but make
things worse. Avoid that point.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6


________________________________________________________________________
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Deb

--- In [email protected], Amy Mason
<doodlemakers@...> wrote:
>
> Please don't kick me off this list for asking too many questions
>but I
> am desperately seeking advice from you seasoned pros that
>hopefully I
> will become one day.
Real questions are ALWAYS okay - it's the faked hypothetical "just
trying to stir up trouble" ones that get folks miffed.

> I need advice on how I should have better responded to a situation
>that
> occurred today. We frequent the library quite often, one of
>several
> actually. Our only problems arise, usually, when one of my crew
>needs
> the bathroom. Hauling myself and four kids into the bathroom,
>away from
> the computer games they were playing or books they were looking
>at,
> usually results in trouble.
As was mentioned, is there a bathroom handy that a child can get to
on his/her own? Our library, too, has a nice roomy "family style"
bathroom right in the children's room (the children's section is the
whole downstairs - the library itself is an old historic home that
was expanded onto, the children's section would have been the
basement. What's cool is that the old 'sitting room' area, bay
windows, fireplace, and all is where they have the mystery
collection, you can sit in the "parlor" and read mysteries set
in "the parlor"...) In this kind of set up, a 5 yr old (or older)
could readily manage the situation on her own. Also, maybe avoid the
whole situation by limiting the library visiting time for now - make
sure everyone gets fed and "watered" far enough in advance that you
can make a potty break before leaving the house, then only stay an
hour or so (however long it is on average before they'd need to go
again) and do a family potty break on the way out before leaving the
library for the trip home. That way, it isn't breaking into the
middle of whatever they are doing - that has already been wound down.

>Today, my 2 1/2 year old dd was making a
> noise, over and over again which seemed to reverberate louder and
>louder
> in the room (because she likes the echo)
That would definitely signal me to get right there with her and say
something like "Wow the echoes are really cool. Know what? I think
we should find someplace where we can really check out lots of
echoes...I know a spot (at some other okay to make noise place, at
home, wherever) that would be really good. Let's give (big sister) a
couple minutes to finish up with (whatever) and we can go there. For
the next couple minutes though, let's try to cut down the echoes.
Folks in libraries generally want it a little quiet while they are
thinking and reading." (BTW at our library, because the children's
section is totally separate from the adult section, the volume tends
to be a little more normal speaking voice rather than hushed. They
even have toys that ring bells and make other noises there. Yelling
is out but talking is okay).

>and my 5 year old dd (who loves
> to play the part of a parent correcting the younger one) was
>saying
> "stop it" over and over and louder and louder to where she
>inevitably
> begins to cry.
This is a not in the moment thing. Separate and apart from the
event, maybe talk with her about this type of situation. I'm
guessing that she has heard "you're a good helper with little
sis" "can you help Mommy with ... to take care of little sis" and so
on. Makes sense, then, that she is going to "take care" of things if
it seems that it is needed. So, maybe talk with her (outside of the
situation) about how when you're at places like the library, you'll
take care of little sis so she can go do whatever it is she wants to
do. She doesn't have to feel responsible to manage her sibling(s).
In the moment, I might get right next to her, look in her face and
say "Thanks, I'll take care of it. Why don't you go look at the fish
tank..."

> How do you take the time, breath, and ask yourself
> how to respond to this when the behavior at the moment is like an
>out of
> control geyser?
>
First, nip it in the bud (I know, that phrase gets so abused, but it
fits). Rather than wait for the volume to escalate to the point they
can't hear, catch it quickly. Next, ignore "everybody" as
in "everybody is watching me" and focus on your kids and their
needs/situation. Third, figure out ahead of time how you'll handle
it. It's kind of similar to the way they teach defensive driving -
you don't wait until your car is in a skid or blows a tire or
whatever to figure out what to do. You mentally rehearse it ahead of
time so that when it does happen, you don't have to "think it
through" right then, you can just respond. Fourth, having 4 kids
with at different developmental stages and with different levels of
interest in library things and differing abilities to handle that
environment for long stretches, it might behoove you to indeed make
separate library days for different kids. Maybe children 1 & 3
really love the computers there and could spend a long time, while
children 2 & 4 can handle maybe half an hour of browsing and picking
books and that's it. Trying to manage the two sets all at once means
that no one (especially you) ends up happy - two get their time cut
short OR two have to linger when they want to leave.

--Deb

Joanne

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> You're waiting until the situation is at a "ten" before you respond.
Cut it off at the pass! Stop the behavior at the "one"---if you know
what's going to happen, But things shouldn't get to the point of the
out of control geyser. Stop it waaaay before that.>>>

This is excellent advice, and not just in this situation either. I try
and follow this for myself and my own piece of mind. I have found that
it's easier to watch and take care of my own stress level when it's low
than when it's already at the point of no return.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (11) & Cimion (13)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

Amy Mason

We have a great library and the potty is right in the children's area.
I don't mind if my 7 year old hangs out at the computer or what not (but
he actually wanted to come with us this particular time) and I need to
take the 2 year old in because I'm not leaving her out alone and when my
5 year old has to go...she has encopresis which is a big issue in
itself...our bathroom trips are involved and it's something that
requires me to attend to her quite often on some days.

All my children get along great at the library together so I don't think
splitting up the time would be necessary. My 2 year old LOVES the
library and could sit looking at books for hours on end. It's dealing
with my daughter's potty issues that affect us all but that's another post.

Thanks again for advice and suggestions. I do a lot of prepping before
situations where I know something might arise but in this case it just
happened so quickly and my patience with changing my daughters undies
for the 10th time that day was wearing on me. I didn't handle it well.
Amy in WV