Consensual Living
Joanne
I have found another yahoo group which I am enjoying so I thought I
would pass on to anyone else who might like to check it out.
[email protected]
In the file you will find a short article written by Anna M. Brown
entitled, "Creating a Climate for Consensual Living".
Additionally there is a "Consensual Living Book List" which has many
of the titles I have also seen recommended in unschooling circles.
Joanne
dh: Charlie
ds: Kevin
Lake Carmel, NY
would pass on to anyone else who might like to check it out.
[email protected]
In the file you will find a short article written by Anna M. Brown
entitled, "Creating a Climate for Consensual Living".
Additionally there is a "Consensual Living Book List" which has many
of the titles I have also seen recommended in unschooling circles.
Joanne
dh: Charlie
ds: Kevin
Lake Carmel, NY
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/20/2006 12:56:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I'm with ya, Ren. I don't think compromise is a bad word. Sometimes when I
read about consensual living it sounds like the solution comes only after one
person 'consents' to want what the others want -- or to give the others what
they want. I know it wouldn't take long for me to resent always consenting to
the other person's preference. In compromise, each person gives a little --
not in sacrifice to the other's whims, but from a genuine desire to see
everyone have some joy. So it's not a bad thing, but a choice. <<<<<<<<<
For me it would depend on what compromise means. CL isn't really about
using predefined words as much as it is about discussing what people mean by the
words they use. Different people can have a different image of what
compromise means in their own head. Just like many other words. In CL it is not
about giving up what you want or consenting to what others want (unless of
course you want to....I mean I can't change what other want but sometimes with
more information something that my children or dh wants may be more appealing to
me than what I originally wanted). There are no martyrs in CL. But I
totally believe that there is always a solution out there where everyone gets what
they want. I also recognize that it is OK to change your mind. I may
initially think that I want X and only X will work for me at this particular point
in time. But after exploring some options I may see that Y is also pretty
cool and would work as well. CL means being really creative and willing to
explore all options when there are conflicting wants or needs and work out a
solution where everyone gets what they want.
What I have found when there seems to be no solution that seems to work is
that we (whoever is involved) just haven't come up with the solution, not that
there isn't one there. And that happens too.
I think by saying that there is just no workable solution where everyone's
needs/wants are met it just makes it acceptable to use coercion in one form or
another. That doesn't work for us. May work for others but just not for
us. Living Consensually is what works for our family.
But if any of you would like more information or would like to check it out
further you are more than welcome to pop over to the CL yahoo list. I think
we have posted the link a few times here.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
I'm with ya, Ren. I don't think compromise is a bad word. Sometimes when I
read about consensual living it sounds like the solution comes only after one
person 'consents' to want what the others want -- or to give the others what
they want. I know it wouldn't take long for me to resent always consenting to
the other person's preference. In compromise, each person gives a little --
not in sacrifice to the other's whims, but from a genuine desire to see
everyone have some joy. So it's not a bad thing, but a choice. <<<<<<<<<
For me it would depend on what compromise means. CL isn't really about
using predefined words as much as it is about discussing what people mean by the
words they use. Different people can have a different image of what
compromise means in their own head. Just like many other words. In CL it is not
about giving up what you want or consenting to what others want (unless of
course you want to....I mean I can't change what other want but sometimes with
more information something that my children or dh wants may be more appealing to
me than what I originally wanted). There are no martyrs in CL. But I
totally believe that there is always a solution out there where everyone gets what
they want. I also recognize that it is OK to change your mind. I may
initially think that I want X and only X will work for me at this particular point
in time. But after exploring some options I may see that Y is also pretty
cool and would work as well. CL means being really creative and willing to
explore all options when there are conflicting wants or needs and work out a
solution where everyone gets what they want.
What I have found when there seems to be no solution that seems to work is
that we (whoever is involved) just haven't come up with the solution, not that
there isn't one there. And that happens too.
I think by saying that there is just no workable solution where everyone's
needs/wants are met it just makes it acceptable to use coercion in one form or
another. That doesn't work for us. May work for others but just not for
us. Living Consensually is what works for our family.
But if any of you would like more information or would like to check it out
further you are more than welcome to pop over to the CL yahoo list. I think
we have posted the link a few times here.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/20/2006 12:56:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
HOW do you get to a mutually agreeable solution?<<<<<<<
It involves communication. We start with finding out what the real
wants/needs are. Sometimes they are obvious but sometimes not. Then we work at
throwing out ideas for solutions until we reach one where everyone is happy. My
boys are pretty good at that now, they have been doing it for some time. But
it does not involve coercion. It meant for me to give up the notion that I
had the "right" answer, or that I knew what was best for anyone. It is not
about getting everyone to consent to what I want to do, but about us working
together to find a solution where everyone gets what they want and is happy.
Everyone's ideas, thoughts, feelings, solutions are taken seriously and
considered equally.
Just a couple of thoughts on the topic,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
HOW do you get to a mutually agreeable solution?<<<<<<<
It involves communication. We start with finding out what the real
wants/needs are. Sometimes they are obvious but sometimes not. Then we work at
throwing out ideas for solutions until we reach one where everyone is happy. My
boys are pretty good at that now, they have been doing it for some time. But
it does not involve coercion. It meant for me to give up the notion that I
had the "right" answer, or that I knew what was best for anyone. It is not
about getting everyone to consent to what I want to do, but about us working
together to find a solution where everyone gets what they want and is happy.
Everyone's ideas, thoughts, feelings, solutions are taken seriously and
considered equally.
Just a couple of thoughts on the topic,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/20/2006 12:14:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Sierra might not get the front seat
right now, but she gets it on the way back or some similar compromise.
I don't see how giving up something you initially wanted is a bad
thing.<<<<<<<<
Is it really giving up what you want? I see it as working it out so that
both people get what they want. I don't see it as giving up what you initially
wanted. Remember it is OK to change your mind for something more
preferable.
For us all needs are important, long term and moment to moment.
right now, but she gets it on the way back or some similar compromise.<<<<
As long as it is agreeable then is she really giving up anything? That is
part of living in a loving family where you are confident that your needs are
taken seriously and that you will work, when conflict arises, to see that
everyone's needs are met.
I don't choose to use the word compromise but sometimes I do use it, just as
most unschoolers choose not to use the word "teach" but sometimes do use the
word. It is the feeling that it gives off. And like I said before I don't
believe it is the word as much as it is the meaning behind the word. I
prefer not to use the word teach because of the "vibe" it gives off and the
meaning it has for me and I also choose not to use the word "compromise".
It isn't a "right"-"wrong" here. This is what we have found that really
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts etc helps
bring us closer. It works in our family and works in our dealings outside the
family as well. These are tools that work in so many different situations.
The ability to know that a solution is out there that can meet the needs of
all involved is very empowering. That way you don't stop and say "there is
just no solution" you might say "we just can't find the solution".
I love talking about Consensual Living because it has brought such joy into
our lives. That is why the yahoo list was created. And I encourage anyone
that thinks this might be something worth looking into more, to come to the
list. We talk about CL and how it looks and feels in each of our families and
other relationships. We share the journey, no one has *all* the answers.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Sierra might not get the front seat
right now, but she gets it on the way back or some similar compromise.
I don't see how giving up something you initially wanted is a bad
thing.<<<<<<<<
Is it really giving up what you want? I see it as working it out so that
both people get what they want. I don't see it as giving up what you initially
wanted. Remember it is OK to change your mind for something more
preferable.
>>>But meeting needs in the long-term iswhat I'm more concerned about rather than in each moment.<<<
For us all needs are important, long term and moment to moment.
>>>Yes, we work it out until we come to a mutually agreeable solution,but that often means compromise..but that often means compromise..<WBR>.
right now, but she gets it on the way back or some similar compromise.<<<<
As long as it is agreeable then is she really giving up anything? That is
part of living in a loving family where you are confident that your needs are
taken seriously and that you will work, when conflict arises, to see that
everyone's needs are met.
I don't choose to use the word compromise but sometimes I do use it, just as
most unschoolers choose not to use the word "teach" but sometimes do use the
word. It is the feeling that it gives off. And like I said before I don't
believe it is the word as much as it is the meaning behind the word. I
prefer not to use the word teach because of the "vibe" it gives off and the
meaning it has for me and I also choose not to use the word "compromise".
It isn't a "right"-"wrong" here. This is what we have found that really
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts etc helps
bring us closer. It works in our family and works in our dealings outside the
family as well. These are tools that work in so many different situations.
The ability to know that a solution is out there that can meet the needs of
all involved is very empowering. That way you don't stop and say "there is
just no solution" you might say "we just can't find the solution".
I love talking about Consensual Living because it has brought such joy into
our lives. That is why the yahoo list was created. And I encourage anyone
that thinks this might be something worth looking into more, to come to the
list. We talk about CL and how it looks and feels in each of our families and
other relationships. We share the journey, no one has *all* the answers.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~This is what we have found that really
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts
etc helps bring us closer.~~
And all of that I agree with!
Maybe I'm just seeing the exceptions. I don't see "teach" as a dirty
word I avoid either...but then I also believe that learning is
everything and teaching is useless without learning.
My kids have no baggage around the word "teach" at all. It's
interesting to hear them talk about "Jared taught me how to________"
when a sibling shows them something they wanted to learn. I see that
"teaching" didn't happen as much as "learning" happened, but they
don't need to know that!
I've never heard compromise being used as anything but finding a
solution all parties can live agree with. I didn't see it as something
HANDED to a person by a larger authority. That isn't what I'm talking
about at all.
And though I compromise certain things, I see it as pure choice! If it
really bothered me, I'd discuss it or try to find other solutions to
make it work better. That's where we are with the dog issue right
now.......
Markus HAS supported our fish and rats completely. He feeds them when
we're gone. The guy who doesn't want ANY pets. He's never been
negative about our hamsters and other furry animals. He has pretty bad
allergies around dogs and cats. I know this and feel that he shouldn't
have to be on medication to enjoy his own home.
We're not done negotiating though...Sierra has a pretty strong desire
for her OWN dog. We've explored the pet sitting (which she is
starting) and all the volunteer work etc...She REALLY wants her own
dog. We'll need to continue a dialogue to find other solutions. It's
not easy sometimes, but we don't put anyone's needs aside just because
it seems difficult. Neither do we feel pressure to figure something
out ASAP.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts
etc helps bring us closer.~~
And all of that I agree with!
Maybe I'm just seeing the exceptions. I don't see "teach" as a dirty
word I avoid either...but then I also believe that learning is
everything and teaching is useless without learning.
My kids have no baggage around the word "teach" at all. It's
interesting to hear them talk about "Jared taught me how to________"
when a sibling shows them something they wanted to learn. I see that
"teaching" didn't happen as much as "learning" happened, but they
don't need to know that!
I've never heard compromise being used as anything but finding a
solution all parties can live agree with. I didn't see it as something
HANDED to a person by a larger authority. That isn't what I'm talking
about at all.
And though I compromise certain things, I see it as pure choice! If it
really bothered me, I'd discuss it or try to find other solutions to
make it work better. That's where we are with the dog issue right
now.......
Markus HAS supported our fish and rats completely. He feeds them when
we're gone. The guy who doesn't want ANY pets. He's never been
negative about our hamsters and other furry animals. He has pretty bad
allergies around dogs and cats. I know this and feel that he shouldn't
have to be on medication to enjoy his own home.
We're not done negotiating though...Sierra has a pretty strong desire
for her OWN dog. We've explored the pet sitting (which she is
starting) and all the volunteer work etc...She REALLY wants her own
dog. We'll need to continue a dialogue to find other solutions. It's
not easy sometimes, but we don't put anyone's needs aside just because
it seems difficult. Neither do we feel pressure to figure something
out ASAP.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Kelly
Check out Labradoodles specifically "F1 Labradoodles." These are the off
spring of one lab/poodle mix bred to a full bred poodle. They are
shed/dander free. My husband is also highly allergic. We have always had
outdoor dogs, but we would like a dog that can come inside at night, at the
very least. I've met several of these dogs in a variety of places, and they
were all living happily and successfully with highly allergic people.
Just a suggestion to lubricate the discussion with your dh!
Kelly mom to Lila, 3 yrs, and Pippa, 3 mos, wife to a really allergic guy
who is great at uncovering solutions to all kinds of situations, sometimes
with compromise, often without. "Compromise" is a workable word in our life.
(long time lurker, first time poster!)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Consensual Living
~~This is what we have found that really
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts
etc helps bring us closer.~~
And all of that I agree with!
Maybe I'm just seeing the exceptions. I don't see "teach" as a dirty
word I avoid either...but then I also believe that learning is
everything and teaching is useless without learning.
My kids have no baggage around the word "teach" at all. It's
interesting to hear them talk about "Jared taught me how to________"
when a sibling shows them something they wanted to learn. I see that
"teaching" didn't happen as much as "learning" happened, but they
don't need to know that!
I've never heard compromise being used as anything but finding a
solution all parties can live agree with. I didn't see it as something
HANDED to a person by a larger authority. That isn't what I'm talking
about at all.
And though I compromise certain things, I see it as pure choice! If it
really bothered me, I'd discuss it or try to find other solutions to
make it work better. That's where we are with the dog issue right
now.......
Markus HAS supported our fish and rats completely. He feeds them when
we're gone. The guy who doesn't want ANY pets. He's never been
negative about our hamsters and other furry animals. He has pretty bad
allergies around dogs and cats. I know this and feel that he shouldn't
have to be on medication to enjoy his own home.
We're not done negotiating though...Sierra has a pretty strong desire
for her OWN dog. We've explored the pet sitting (which she is
starting) and all the volunteer work etc...She REALLY wants her own
dog. We'll need to continue a dialogue to find other solutions. It's
not easy sometimes, but we don't put anyone's needs aside just because
it seems difficult. Neither do we feel pressure to figure something
out ASAP.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
spring of one lab/poodle mix bred to a full bred poodle. They are
shed/dander free. My husband is also highly allergic. We have always had
outdoor dogs, but we would like a dog that can come inside at night, at the
very least. I've met several of these dogs in a variety of places, and they
were all living happily and successfully with highly allergic people.
Just a suggestion to lubricate the discussion with your dh!
Kelly mom to Lila, 3 yrs, and Pippa, 3 mos, wife to a really allergic guy
who is great at uncovering solutions to all kinds of situations, sometimes
with compromise, often without. "Compromise" is a workable word in our life.
(long time lurker, first time poster!)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Consensual Living
~~This is what we have found that really
works for our family. Finding agreeable solutions works for us. Taking
everyone seriously, everyone's wants, needs, feelings, ideas, thoughts
etc helps bring us closer.~~
And all of that I agree with!
Maybe I'm just seeing the exceptions. I don't see "teach" as a dirty
word I avoid either...but then I also believe that learning is
everything and teaching is useless without learning.
My kids have no baggage around the word "teach" at all. It's
interesting to hear them talk about "Jared taught me how to________"
when a sibling shows them something they wanted to learn. I see that
"teaching" didn't happen as much as "learning" happened, but they
don't need to know that!
I've never heard compromise being used as anything but finding a
solution all parties can live agree with. I didn't see it as something
HANDED to a person by a larger authority. That isn't what I'm talking
about at all.
And though I compromise certain things, I see it as pure choice! If it
really bothered me, I'd discuss it or try to find other solutions to
make it work better. That's where we are with the dog issue right
now.......
Markus HAS supported our fish and rats completely. He feeds them when
we're gone. The guy who doesn't want ANY pets. He's never been
negative about our hamsters and other furry animals. He has pretty bad
allergies around dogs and cats. I know this and feel that he shouldn't
have to be on medication to enjoy his own home.
We're not done negotiating though...Sierra has a pretty strong desire
for her OWN dog. We've explored the pet sitting (which she is
starting) and all the volunteer work etc...She REALLY wants her own
dog. We'll need to continue a dialogue to find other solutions. It's
not easy sometimes, but we don't put anyone's needs aside just because
it seems difficult. Neither do we feel pressure to figure something
out ASAP.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: kelly@...
Check out Labradoodles specifically "F1 Labradoodles." These are the
off
spring of one lab/poodle mix bred to a full bred poodle. They are
shed/dander free. My husband is also highly allergic. We have always had
outdoor dogs, but we would like a dog that can come inside at night, at
the
very least. I've met several of these dogs in a variety of places, and
they
were all living happily and successfully with highly allergic people.
-=-=-=-=-=-
They are NOT allergy-fee! They DO shed, but the coat gets caught up in
the curls. They are also regularly groomed by a professional, so it
cuts down on the amount of loose hair and dander.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: kelly@...
Check out Labradoodles specifically "F1 Labradoodles." These are the
off
spring of one lab/poodle mix bred to a full bred poodle. They are
shed/dander free. My husband is also highly allergic. We have always had
outdoor dogs, but we would like a dog that can come inside at night, at
the
very least. I've met several of these dogs in a variety of places, and
they
were all living happily and successfully with highly allergic people.
-=-=-=-=-=-
They are NOT allergy-fee! They DO shed, but the coat gets caught up in
the curls. They are also regularly groomed by a professional, so it
cuts down on the amount of loose hair and dander.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Ren Allen
"They are NOT allergy-fee!"
I just did a little bit of research and it sounds like there are
several different types of labradoodles. The F-1's are not allergy
free, but the F-1a (or was it b?) claimed to be allergy free. The
Australian labradoodles sound somewhat promising.
And don't worry Kelly...when we're in a better position to actually DO
something, you know I'll be talking to you.;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
I just did a little bit of research and it sounds like there are
several different types of labradoodles. The F-1's are not allergy
free, but the F-1a (or was it b?) claimed to be allergy free. The
Australian labradoodles sound somewhat promising.
And don't worry Kelly...when we're in a better position to actually DO
something, you know I'll be talking to you.;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...
I just did a little bit of research and it sounds like there are
several different types of labradoodles. The F-1's are not allergy
free, but the F-1a (or was it b?) claimed to be allergy free. The
Australian labradoodles sound somewhat promising.
-=-=-=-=-
Claim to be. So do poodles and Bichon Frises and westies and several
others. NO breed is allergy-free. People are making a fortune breeding
these "allergy-free" mutts.
*Australian*??? PuhLEEZE!
-=-=-=-
And don't worry Kelly...when we're in a better position to actually DO
something, you know I'll be talking to you.;)
-=-=-=-
<G> At length!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: starsuncloud@...
I just did a little bit of research and it sounds like there are
several different types of labradoodles. The F-1's are not allergy
free, but the F-1a (or was it b?) claimed to be allergy free. The
Australian labradoodles sound somewhat promising.
-=-=-=-=-
Claim to be. So do poodles and Bichon Frises and westies and several
others. NO breed is allergy-free. People are making a fortune breeding
these "allergy-free" mutts.
*Australian*??? PuhLEEZE!
-=-=-=-
And don't worry Kelly...when we're in a better position to actually DO
something, you know I'll be talking to you.;)
-=-=-=-
<G> At length!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.