Input Please...
Tina
I've posted here about our son, Andrew-14, before but haven't gotten
any responses. I have just kept reading here and trudging
forward. Things have improved, but we are still at a tough spot.
The only way I know how to word it is that he is really mean and
rude. This is especially with me and our younger son, Adrian-12. I
should mention that Andrew has been a struggling public school
student his entire life. He just came home in April. Adrian is a
veteran unschooler by now...he did do a little time though.
Anyway, when I posted before I could not think of a specific example
of Andrew's "undesirable" behavior. I have one from tonight. I did
handle it WAY better than I would have in the past, but I'm still
not feeling that I was *effective*. Maybe you all can shine a light
for me. I would really appreciate it. Here's the play by play:
Pat, dh, myself and Adrian were watching a stand-up comic on
television in the front room. Andrew was in my bedroom on the
computer just off the front room. (My bedroom door is right next to
the television) He heard us laughing and came out to see what was
so funny. This means he was standing right in front of the
television, but was not in mine or Pat's way.
Adrian had gotten up to go into the kitchen because he was making
himself some alfredo pasta on the stove. When his food was done he
came back and sat down on the love seat. Andrew was now in his line
of vision. Adrian said, "Excuse me, Andrew." Plain and simple and
kind. No nasty inflection or anything like that.
Andrew got outwardly irritated and said, "Why would you sit there if
you can't see?" I carefully pointed out that Adrian asked him
politely and was not being rude to him. He said, "excuse me" nicely
and all. Andrew continued, "It was rude of him to even ask me to
move." I calmly pointed out that when someone asks you to do
something reasonable and they are polite that there is nothing wrong
with that. He insisted that Adrian was rude for even asking and
that he, Andrew, was right in his behavior. I let it drop.
My issue is this...he acts like this very regularly and literally
thinks that this type behavior is appropriate and acceptable, even
if I try to talk with him about it. Honestly, it is REALLY getting
old and exhausting.
Why is he being so nasty?
How should I help him through this?
What should I do/not do in these situations?
I really suck at thinking on my feet. Any input on this type of
situation would be SO appreciated.
Thanks - Tina
any responses. I have just kept reading here and trudging
forward. Things have improved, but we are still at a tough spot.
The only way I know how to word it is that he is really mean and
rude. This is especially with me and our younger son, Adrian-12. I
should mention that Andrew has been a struggling public school
student his entire life. He just came home in April. Adrian is a
veteran unschooler by now...he did do a little time though.
Anyway, when I posted before I could not think of a specific example
of Andrew's "undesirable" behavior. I have one from tonight. I did
handle it WAY better than I would have in the past, but I'm still
not feeling that I was *effective*. Maybe you all can shine a light
for me. I would really appreciate it. Here's the play by play:
Pat, dh, myself and Adrian were watching a stand-up comic on
television in the front room. Andrew was in my bedroom on the
computer just off the front room. (My bedroom door is right next to
the television) He heard us laughing and came out to see what was
so funny. This means he was standing right in front of the
television, but was not in mine or Pat's way.
Adrian had gotten up to go into the kitchen because he was making
himself some alfredo pasta on the stove. When his food was done he
came back and sat down on the love seat. Andrew was now in his line
of vision. Adrian said, "Excuse me, Andrew." Plain and simple and
kind. No nasty inflection or anything like that.
Andrew got outwardly irritated and said, "Why would you sit there if
you can't see?" I carefully pointed out that Adrian asked him
politely and was not being rude to him. He said, "excuse me" nicely
and all. Andrew continued, "It was rude of him to even ask me to
move." I calmly pointed out that when someone asks you to do
something reasonable and they are polite that there is nothing wrong
with that. He insisted that Adrian was rude for even asking and
that he, Andrew, was right in his behavior. I let it drop.
My issue is this...he acts like this very regularly and literally
thinks that this type behavior is appropriate and acceptable, even
if I try to talk with him about it. Honestly, it is REALLY getting
old and exhausting.
Why is he being so nasty?
How should I help him through this?
What should I do/not do in these situations?
I really suck at thinking on my feet. Any input on this type of
situation would be SO appreciated.
Thanks - Tina
Jane
Hi Tina,
I'm no expert on 14 yo's, but this sounds something like what our 9yo ds was doing about which I posted. I found that what worked best and most often for me was an adaptation of _How to talk so kids really listen and listen so kids will talk_. First, name the feeling. "You sound angry.". Then say nothing. Hopefully, Andrew will tell you more. If not, wait a reasonable amoutn of time and try again. As he speaks, be sure to listen. Use "oh", "I see", and "hmm" as he speaks. These convey that you are listening but does not convey agreement. When Andrew is finished speaking, you might choose to paraphase what he said, "So you're saying that...". That may cue him to tell you more, to complete a thought.
When I used this I found that I unearthed something that I might not have gotten if I didn't use it and/or it helped my diffuse my son.
I give you credit for pointing out that the request was reasonable, etc. Who says you can't think on the fly??
Is there ever a time when Andrew does this when you can talk to him about it? Maybe tomorrow, a few days later? I also found that if I left it alone and tried again at a later time, I got some of the answers I needed.
HTH some!!
Jane
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
I've posted here about our son, Andrew-14, before but haven't gotten
any responses. I have just kept reading here and trudging
forward. Things have improved, but we are still at a tough spot.
The only way I know how to word it is that he is really mean and
rude. This is especially with me and our younger son, Adrian-12. I
should mention that Andrew has been a struggling public school
student his entire life. He just came home in April. Adrian is a
veteran unschooler by now...he did do a little time though.
Anyway, when I posted before I could not think of a specific example
of Andrew's "undesirable" behavior. I have one from tonight. I did
handle it WAY better than I would have in the past, but I'm still
not feeling that I was *effective*. Maybe you all can shine a light
for me. I would really appreciate it. Here's the play by play:
Pat, dh, myself and Adrian were watching a stand-up comic on
television in the front room. Andrew was in my bedroom on the
computer just off the front room. (My bedroom door is right next to
the television) He heard us laughing and came out to see what was
so funny. This means he was standing right in front of the
television, but was not in mine or Pat's way.
Adrian had gotten up to go into the kitchen because he was making
himself some alfredo pasta on the stove. When his food was done he
came back and sat down on the love seat. Andrew was now in his line
of vision. Adrian said, "Excuse me, Andrew." Plain and simple and
kind. No nasty inflection or anything like that.
Andrew got outwardly irritated and said, "Why would you sit there if
you can't see?" I carefully pointed out that Adrian asked him
politely and was not being rude to him. He said, "excuse me" nicely
and all. Andrew continued, "It was rude of him to even ask me to
move." I calmly pointed out that when someone asks you to do
something reasonable and they are polite that there is nothing wrong
with that. He insisted that Adrian was rude for even asking and
that he, Andrew, was right in his behavior. I let it drop.
My issue is this...he acts like this very regularly and literally
thinks that this type behavior is appropriate and acceptable, even
if I try to talk with him about it. Honestly, it is REALLY getting
old and exhausting.
Why is he being so nasty?
How should I help him through this?
What should I do/not do in these situations?
I really suck at thinking on my feet. Any input on this type of
situation would be SO appreciated.
Thanks - Tina
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm no expert on 14 yo's, but this sounds something like what our 9yo ds was doing about which I posted. I found that what worked best and most often for me was an adaptation of _How to talk so kids really listen and listen so kids will talk_. First, name the feeling. "You sound angry.". Then say nothing. Hopefully, Andrew will tell you more. If not, wait a reasonable amoutn of time and try again. As he speaks, be sure to listen. Use "oh", "I see", and "hmm" as he speaks. These convey that you are listening but does not convey agreement. When Andrew is finished speaking, you might choose to paraphase what he said, "So you're saying that...". That may cue him to tell you more, to complete a thought.
When I used this I found that I unearthed something that I might not have gotten if I didn't use it and/or it helped my diffuse my son.
I give you credit for pointing out that the request was reasonable, etc. Who says you can't think on the fly??
Is there ever a time when Andrew does this when you can talk to him about it? Maybe tomorrow, a few days later? I also found that if I left it alone and tried again at a later time, I got some of the answers I needed.
HTH some!!
Jane
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
I've posted here about our son, Andrew-14, before but haven't gotten
any responses. I have just kept reading here and trudging
forward. Things have improved, but we are still at a tough spot.
The only way I know how to word it is that he is really mean and
rude. This is especially with me and our younger son, Adrian-12. I
should mention that Andrew has been a struggling public school
student his entire life. He just came home in April. Adrian is a
veteran unschooler by now...he did do a little time though.
Anyway, when I posted before I could not think of a specific example
of Andrew's "undesirable" behavior. I have one from tonight. I did
handle it WAY better than I would have in the past, but I'm still
not feeling that I was *effective*. Maybe you all can shine a light
for me. I would really appreciate it. Here's the play by play:
Pat, dh, myself and Adrian were watching a stand-up comic on
television in the front room. Andrew was in my bedroom on the
computer just off the front room. (My bedroom door is right next to
the television) He heard us laughing and came out to see what was
so funny. This means he was standing right in front of the
television, but was not in mine or Pat's way.
Adrian had gotten up to go into the kitchen because he was making
himself some alfredo pasta on the stove. When his food was done he
came back and sat down on the love seat. Andrew was now in his line
of vision. Adrian said, "Excuse me, Andrew." Plain and simple and
kind. No nasty inflection or anything like that.
Andrew got outwardly irritated and said, "Why would you sit there if
you can't see?" I carefully pointed out that Adrian asked him
politely and was not being rude to him. He said, "excuse me" nicely
and all. Andrew continued, "It was rude of him to even ask me to
move." I calmly pointed out that when someone asks you to do
something reasonable and they are polite that there is nothing wrong
with that. He insisted that Adrian was rude for even asking and
that he, Andrew, was right in his behavior. I let it drop.
My issue is this...he acts like this very regularly and literally
thinks that this type behavior is appropriate and acceptable, even
if I try to talk with him about it. Honestly, it is REALLY getting
old and exhausting.
Why is he being so nasty?
How should I help him through this?
What should I do/not do in these situations?
I really suck at thinking on my feet. Any input on this type of
situation would be SO appreciated.
Thanks - Tina
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 23, 2006, at 12:04 AM, Tina wrote:
by all the adults around him "Go to school. Do your homework. Sit
down. Pay attention. Stop talking. Be hungry when we've scheduled you
to eat. ..." And all the adults thought that was appropriate and
acceptable.
He's angry and he's hurting. People who've been hurt often want to
hurt others. He's been pushed around. People who are pushed around
can learn to push back. It's one of the reasons parents push their
kids around. They were pushed around their whole lives and now it's
finally their turn to do the pushing :-/
Right now he's depressurizing -- like the bends! -- from the control.
The best present you could give yourself is "Parent/Teen
Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach" by Myra Kirshenbaum (along
with How to Talk, which doesn't totally jive with mindful parenting
but is *very* helpful).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452266165/sr=8-1/qid=1153652878/
ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0550184-7133505?ie=UTF8
(There are used ones currently for 57 cents!)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380811960/sr=1-1/qid=1153653166/
ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0550184-7133505?ie=UTF8&s=books
(There's also a How to Talk So Teens Will Listen book but no one's
mentioned reading it. Maybe because it was just published last year.)
Joyce
> My issue is this...he acts like this very regularly and literallyFor how ever many years he was in school he heard or it was implied
> thinks that this type behavior is appropriate and acceptable
by all the adults around him "Go to school. Do your homework. Sit
down. Pay attention. Stop talking. Be hungry when we've scheduled you
to eat. ..." And all the adults thought that was appropriate and
acceptable.
He's angry and he's hurting. People who've been hurt often want to
hurt others. He's been pushed around. People who are pushed around
can learn to push back. It's one of the reasons parents push their
kids around. They were pushed around their whole lives and now it's
finally their turn to do the pushing :-/
Right now he's depressurizing -- like the bends! -- from the control.
The best present you could give yourself is "Parent/Teen
Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach" by Myra Kirshenbaum (along
with How to Talk, which doesn't totally jive with mindful parenting
but is *very* helpful).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452266165/sr=8-1/qid=1153652878/
ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0550184-7133505?ie=UTF8
(There are used ones currently for 57 cents!)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380811960/sr=1-1/qid=1153653166/
ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0550184-7133505?ie=UTF8&s=books
(There's also a How to Talk So Teens Will Listen book but no one's
mentioned reading it. Maybe because it was just published last year.)
Joyce